I'm bored, so...
How can anyone vote for Beefcake?
Because he's better than Benjamin.
''Better Than Benjamin'' I like it. It's my new campaign slogan
He was a popular wrestler, but the only good person he ever beat was Mr Perfect.
Oh, I don't know about that.
The Beefcake WWF PPV Record
WrestleMania 2 - w/ Greg Valentine vs. The British Bulldogs (Lost)
WrestleMania 3 - w/ Greg Valentine vs. The Fabulous Rougeaus (Won)
Survivor Series '87 - w/ Jim Duggan, Ricky Steamboat, Randy Savage & Jake Roberts vs. Harley Race, Honky Tonk Man, Ron Bass, Hercules Hernandez & Danny Davis (Won)
WrestleMania 4 - vs. Honky Tonk Man (Won)
Survivo Series '88 - w/ The Ultimate Warrior, Sam Houston, The Blue Blazer & Jim Brunzell vs. Honky Tonk Man, Greg Valentine, Bad News Brown, Ron Bass & Danny Davis (Won)
Royal Rumble '89 - (Lost)
WrestleMania 5 - vs. Ted Dibiase (Double Count Out)
Summer Slam '89 - w/ Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage & Zeus (Won)
Survivor Series '89 - w/ Dusty Rhodes, Terry Taylor & Tito Santana vs. Big Boss Man, Bad News Brown, Rick Martel & Honky Tonk Man (Won)
Royal Rumble '90 - vs. Lanny Poffo (Double DQ)
WrestleMania 6 - vs. Curt Henning (Won)
WrestleMania 9 - w/ Hulk Hogan vs. Money Inc. (Lost via DQ)
Matches - 12
Wins - 7
Losses - 3 (One by DQ, on Rumble match & one where his partner was pinned)
Double DQ/Count Out - 2
He never won a singles title in any promotion,
So? Neither has Jake Roberts. Would you say that Jake Robers hasn't had a good career?
with the exception of a couple years in the WWE he was never anything more then a jobber to the stars.
Prime is the key here. It doesn't matter what he was like in WCW, nobody would seriously say he was at his best then.
Shelton on the other hand has held the IC title 3 times and the US title once.
Three times? I didn't know that. On a success scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate his title reigns? I'll call bullshit if you give them high or even moderate ratings.
He has victories over Triple H, Chris Jericho, Christian, Ric Flair, Randy Orton, and RVD.
Triple H? Fluke. Chris Jericho? Mid card rut at the time. Christian? Similar to Beefcake beating Ron Bass. Ric Flair? Everybody beats Flair. Orton? Lost the feud overall. RVD? Probably stoned.
Not all of those guys were in their prime when he beat them, but they are still impressive victories.
Not really, the only memorable one was Triple H. Fluke victories don't show how talented you are. It happened again a couple of weeks or months after. But since then Triple H has got him figured out.
Shelton is 6'2 248 and he is faster then most people his size.
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe people his size are over without having to try and show off.
Even if everything you said was true it's not like Beefcake was fast, athletic, or very technically sound.
Same could be said for The Undertaker in the early 90's.
Benjamin defeated Brock Lesnar in an amateur wrestling match so he has more then enough strength to compete with Beefcake.
Where is Lesnar now and where was Lesnar in 2003 in comparison to Shelton?
Actually when you think about it he hardly ever won. He lost a lot of matches to a lot of people, especially in WCW.
Not his prime years.
Beefcake feuded with big names because he was popular, but when it came to the matches he rarely won.
See my PPV listing.
You'd think that with all the time he spent wrestling he would be able to win at least one singles title, but he didn't.
Do you think Shelton would have got a singles title in WWE when there were only two?
Beefcake would keep it close but in the end Shelton's athleticism would be too much and he'd get the win after hitting Paydirt.
Athleticism, what does that actually mean when people refer to Shelton Benjamin?
Once again people make the argument that Shelton sucks because he doesn't ever make it to the main event with his pushes.
Fair enough, but Beefcake did.
It's not his fault the WWE always stops his pushes.
Kinda is. He's popular yet he puts forth no effort in his matches.
He always goes out and has great matches.
Like?
I'll only accept great matches, not good matches.
His mic skills might not be good but that means jack shit in a wrestling match.
No, but charisma is important in matches.
Shelton does everything in the ring better then Beefcake.
It's ironic. Beefcake uses a sleeper as a finishing move and Shelton puts people to sleep with his matches.
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN!!
Counter point. He's sloppier.
How do you work that one out?
No he doesn't, it's why he's been in the same position for the past 5 years.
Shelton is flat out better then Beefcake and that is why he wins.
Oh yeah, because he's athletic.
Beefcake wins because he's got bigger pectorals. Counter that little nugget.
What did Beefcake do besides his one victory over Mr Perfect? Not shit.
It's a pretty big deal. Proving that one of the best gimmicks ever in wrestling is a total sham.
He was a jobber to the stars and Hogans lackey for the majority of his career.
His n.W.o. run wasn't the majority of his career.
Shelton at least has some wins over big name talent.
Fluke wins.
Main Eventer my ass. He was in the main event of 2 pay per views over his 8 years in the WWE; Summerslam 89 and Wrestlemania 9, and both of those were as Hogans partner. If it wasn't for Hogan Beefcake would have never even sniffed the main event.
So? That's still two main events. Excluding Royal Rumbles.
I don't know what your definition of "starred" is , but if it's one good match with Mr Perfect and one major tag match with Hogan then yes he "starred" on a few Wrestlemanias.
WrestleMania's are kind of a big deal. So is being in the main event of a SummerSlam, or at least it was. It's not now, I guess Benjamin will never know that feeling. That feeling of headlining an important show.
Yep you got me. It's because he's black.
I wasn't going to say it.
Ignore the title reigns and all the great matches he's has with the likes of Triple H, HBK, Chris Jericho, and Christian.
Yes, ignore the title reigns and the average matches.
He's better because he's black and Beefcake is white.
Equality. It's waht I'm preaching.
Great job making this into a race issue even though my argument never insinuated that at all.
I have no idea what this is relating to. I simply quoted all the negative Beefcake posters. I'll ignore it and move on.
Beefcake never decimated anyone in his whole career so there is no way he would decimate Benjamin.
Benjamin never decimated anyone in his whole career so there is no way he would decimate Beefcake.
See what I did there.
That doesn't change the fact that without his friendship with Hogan, Beefcake would never have been in those main events. You're basically telling me that you're voting for Beefcake because he had more famous friends.
Again, so? What does it matter. If backstage politics comes into this thing then you can say goodbye to most wrestlers.
When Shelton had his first major push as a face on RAW they could have put him with someone like HBK against two major heels and people would have bought it.
But they didn't, why is that?
But it's nearly impossible to compare because during the Hulkamania era anyone could have teamed with Hogan and they would have bought it. You could have put Jim Duggan, Koko B Ware, or any other face that was over with the fans and teamed him up with Hogan during that period and it would have worked.
Put anybody with Hogan now and it would work. The same could probably be said for Beefcake. Nostalgia pop or not.
Okay, fair point. How many championship belts has Beefcake held? He hasn't held any.
Benjamin hasn't headlined a pay per view, and Beefcake hasn't held a title.
Oopsie.
I think that holding a championship is more significant than being in a main event.
I think holding an important title is more more important than holding a worthless one.
Besides, wasn't Benjamin in the SmackDown Main Event at Unforgiven? The scramble?
That match that happened in the middle of the card? Yes, yes he was.
He has technically been in a main event at a pay per view, though. What did they say on SmackDown prior to Unforgiven? They called it their Main Event, which is true.
True, but false. The main event is the match that sells the card. The would have been the Scramble concept. But out of the Scramble matches it was the Raw one with all of the superstars. Also, HBK/Jericho had a higher profile.
He was in his brand's most important match of the night.
But what was the most important Smackdown moment of the night? I'll put forth my vote for Big Show knocking out the Undertaker.
Brutus does have the edge in main events, but he still never did win a title.
He had opportunity for Tag (In WWF and WCW), Intercontinental, WWF Heavyweight, United States, and the WCW Heavyweight. That's quite a few opportunities to win a title.
When he was a face there were a lot of people who liked Shelton, but as a heel you are right no one ever got behind him like other major heels ie: Edge and Jericho.
Edge & Jericho are head and shoulders above Benjamin in every conceivable way. That might be one reason.
That's probably because to draw heat as a heel you have to be able to talk.
I'll say no to that. You can have heel mannerisms without opening your mouth.
As we all know Benjamin isn't a great talker and he doesn't get many opportunities to talk.
I've heard his speak quite a lot over the past 5 years. It must just be you.
Beefcake was always over as a face because he had a gimmick that people liked.
He does Benjamin's hair you know.
It's the same reason that guys like Duggan, Koko, JYD, and Hillbilly Jim were over.
A cockatoo could be just the thing for Shelton's career.
But with the exception of JYD I don't think any of those guys could beat Benjamin.
The only one he could beat is Koko.
The WWE also appealed to a different type of fan back when Beefcake was around.
So?
If a guy was given a good gimmick and could interact well with the fans then he would be popular.
Shelton should still be able to interact with the fans as it is.
If the scramble doesn't count then Beefcakes Wrestlemania 9 tag match doesn't count as a main event.
Naturally, nobody really counts mid card matches as main events.
So that still gives Beefcake one main event, but that doesn't mean he would beat Shelton.
Think it does. Would Shelton beat Savage or even Zeus? Thought not.
Please don't compare Beefcake to Austin, Hogan, Triple H, and HBK.
But, but, I didn't.
Yes everyone needs help to make it to the main event, but Beefcake was in ONE main event. Those other guys have been main eventers for years.
Beefcake was a main eventer before The Rock, Triple H & Austin. FACT.
Consistent performance and consistent losing when he wasn't teaming with Hogan.
False.
