WWE: 2 out of 3 Falls Match: Mick Foley vs. The Ultimate Warrior

[IrishCanadian25]

I haven't read anyone else's posts. I am just going with my gut.

1. Warrior is a guy who, to me, blows his load early on in matches. He cuts such a torrid pace that it's tough to keep up. His biggest advantage is putting you away early.

2. Warrior would have a tough time in this match against an opponent who was in good cardio-vascular shape. That man is NOT Mick Foley.

3. Warrior has gone some long ditances, even despite shorter matches favoring him. Both of Warrior's matches with Savage were awesome, lengthy affars, and neither of those matches were like Foley's longer matches - some wrestling with lots of rest centered around high spots. We forget how much rest Foley got in his longer matches with The Rock and Triple H, because the crowd would become fixated on the spot and the carnage. Warrior didn't need that.

4. Foley was a great champion and a tremendous worker, but give me Warrior, 2-0.

Ok, now you may change my mind.

 

[jmt225]

Now, wait a second here, what could Warrior ever do to put someone like Foley away? Guerrilla press slam and some weak ass splash to follow? Please... Foley fell off the top of the Hell of the Cell and kept fighting. I'm sure he could handle being pressed slammed up by Warrior, and then having the dude jump (using this word very loosely as Warrior couldn't leap four inches off the ground) on him. And those closelines and that shoulder block may knock Foley down, but it won't keep him down. Those moves aren't anything compared to The Rock nailing you over the head repeatedly with a steel fucking chair.

Basically, Warrior takes control the whole match, with Foley taking everything he has to offer, and then Warrior gases out. Plain and Simple. The Mandiple Claw puts Warrior away, guaranteed.

 

[SavageTaker]

My Vote is on Warrior. He has shown that he can go for a while in a match and that he will still be just as energetic as when the match begun. So that is obviously not going to favor Foley.

Also Foley is not the smartest to enter a ring. Like mentioned before by other posters...he decided to go up on top of the Hell in a Cell and what happened, he was thrown off because he took an unneeded risk. The same thing could happen here. He is going to make a mistake that he could have avoided but he still made that mistake and it will Favor Warrior.

I think that Warrior should and hopefully will win this match, but Foley will put up a good fight.

 

[Tastycles]

I haven't read anyone else's posts. I am just going with my gut.

1. Warrior is a guy who, to me, blows his load early on in matches. He cuts such a torrid pace that it's tough to keep up. His biggest advantage is putting you away early.

Except for when he took half an hour to beat Savage. I cannot believe that the fact a guy is so much better than the vast majority of his opponents that he beats them in 10 minutes is being used against him. When has Warrior ever got tired? I've never seen it.

2. Warrior would have a tough time in this match against an opponent who was in good cardio-vascular shape. That man is NOT Mick Foley.

I don't think he would, but the logic follows.

3. Warrior has gone some long ditances, even despite shorter matches favoring him. Both of Warrior's matches with Savage were awesome, lengthy affars, and neither of those matches were like Foley's longer matches - some wrestling with lots of rest centered around high spots. We forget how much rest Foley got in his longer matches with The Rock and Triple H, because the crowd would become fixated on the spot and the carnage. Warrior didn't need that.

Exactly.

4. Foley was a great champion and a tremendous worker, but give me Warrior, 2-0.

Exactly

Ok, now you may change my mind.

I'd rather not.

Now, wait a second here, what could Warrior ever do to put someone like Foley away? Guerrilla press slam and some weak ass splash to follow?

That weak ass splash as you call it gave Hulk Hogan his only clean defeat for 6 years.

Please... Foley fell off the top of the Hell of the Cell and kept fighting.

He won that match then did he? Oh no, he didn't

I'm sure he could handle being pressed slammed up by Warrior, and then having the dude jump (using this word very loosely as Warrior couldn't leap four inches off the ground) on him.

You'd think he'd be able to withstand an elbow drop, but the Rock showed us otherwise. You know kayfabe, yeah, that's how the Warrior splash works.

And those closelines and that shoulder block may knock Foley down, but it won't keep him down. Those moves aren't anything compared to The Rock nailing you over the head repeatedly with a steel fucking chair.

Look Foley's resiliance comes in weapons. When is Foley's prime? I say 1999, that's when he won his world titles. In May 1999 he lost to Billy Gunn via Fameasser. If you seriously contending that Billy Gunn is better in singles wrestling than the Ultimate Warrior, you aren't worth arguing with.

Basically, Warrior takes control the whole match, with Foley taking everything he has to offer, and then Warrior gases out. Plain and Simple. The Mandiple Claw puts Warrior away, guaranteed.

WARRIOR HAS NEVER RUN OUT OF STEAM why is that so hard for everyone to understand?

As for Foley, he won gimmick matches and lost straight one on one matches. His annus mirabilis was 1999 and he lost to both Billy Gunn and Val Venis that year in one on one matches. If you think a guy who loses to career midcarders like those is going to beat a guy who lost three matches ever, then vote for Foley. If you are capable of reasoning, vote Warrior.

 

[jmt225]

That weak ass splash as you call it gave Hulk Hogan his only clean defeat for 6 years.

And Hogan and Foley are two different people. You mean to tell me that Hogan could've taken the punishment Foley took during his prime? I don't think so.

He won that match then did he? Oh no, he didn't

So? The point is, he put up a fight after what he suffered. You really believe Warrior would've kept fighting after that? Warrior was fucking put away with a scepter for fucks sake.

You'd think he'd be able to withstand an elbow drop, but the Rock showed us otherwise. You know kayfabe, yeah, that's how the Warrior splash works.

Please show me when it was just one little elbow drop that put Foley away. And even if you can, I'm sure I can dig up when Foley kicked out of the People's Elbow, even when there was a steel chair on top of his head to go with it.

Look Foley's resiliance comes in weapons. When is Foley's prime? I say 1999, that's when he won his world titles. In May 1999 he lost to Billy Gunn via Fameasser. If you seriously contending that Billy Gunn is better in singles wrestling than the Ultimate Warrior, you aren't worth arguing with.

Okay, when the fuck did this happen? And even if it did, I'm sure there was more to Foley being put down then just Gunn hitting the Fameasser.

WARRIOR HAS NEVER RUN OUT OF STEAM why is that so hard for everyone to understand?

He breathed hard all the time after his entrance. And just look how worn out he was against Hogan, and that wasn't even a very long match. You know how long it's going to take for Warrior to put Foley away twice? Three times as long as the Hogan match, that's for fucking sure.

As for Foley, he won gimmick matches and lost straight one on one matches. His annus mirabilis was 1999 and he lost to both Billy Gunn and Val Venis that year in one on one matches. If you think a guy who loses to career midcarders like those is going to beat a guy who lost three matches ever, then vote for Foley. If you are capable of reasoning, vote Foley.

I don't remember these matches, but I'm sure there's much more to it then Foley just losing cleanly. Like, he was going through a bad mental stage of some sort, or there was a lot of interference. Please show me videos of these matches because I'm sure there's either A) Interference and/or B) The commentators putting over why Foley isn't in his right frame of mind.

And besides, let's say Foley did lose to these mid-carders straight up, that just goes to show that he doesn't put up a fight against talentless motherfuckers who shouldn't be in the ring with him in the first place. However, look at what he does against main eventers, which Warrior obviously is. It's damn near impossible to put Foley away when he's in a main event match, and you know it. This isn't some mid-card match that doesn't mean jack shit; this is Foley vs. Warrior and anyone with a brain knows Foley would show up ready to kill. He would never take Warrior lightly like he did with Gunn and Venis. So that argument needs to be thrown out the window anyway.

 

[justinsayne]

Why does everyone think Warrior would get so tired that he couldn't win the match? He beat Hulk fucking Hogan in a 30 minute match. He's also beaten Randy Savage in a 20 minute match. Hogan and Savage are much better then Foley and Warrior wasn't to gassed to beat them in a long match, and this would be no different.

A fwe problems with this...

A.) he's not wrestling Hogan
&
B.) he's not wresting Savage

He's wrestling Foley, a guy who's taken likely more punishment than anyother wrestler Warrior has ever faced before, Foley has been thrown through steel cages, flaming tables, he's been electrocuted, blown up in c4 matches, ripped open with barbwire, cheese graders, had his ear ripped off, fuck you name it he's been through it, and still gotten up and continued to fight, as other have already stated Foley will likely use one fall to whack Warrior on the head with his trusty barbwire bat, prolly a good 20-30 mins. into the match, so not only will Warrior be gassed but he'll be a bloody mess, something Warrior is not used to at all, so yeah Warrior picks up a fall, but Foley covers him for a quick fall to even it up, then Foley just has to further burn him out apply the Mandible Claw and Warrior either passes out or taps, giving Foley the win

 

[Big Sexy]

And Hogan and Foley are two different people. You mean to tell mean Hogan could've taken the punishment Foley took during his prime? I don't think so.

Every time Foley took a big bump it was followed by about 5 minutes of rest. He was never immediately pinned after taking an insane amount of punishment. Warrior would be able to keep him down for a three count with his normal finisher.

So? The point is, he put up a fight after what he suffered. You really believe Warrior would've kept fighting after that? Warrior was fucking put away with a scepter for fucks sake.

Warrior wouldn't have been stupid enough to climb to the top of a cell or put a bunch of thumbtacks in the middle of the ring.

He breathed hard all the time after his entrance. And just look how worn out he was against Hogan, and that wasn't even a very long match. You know how long it's going to take for Warrior to put Foley away twice? Three times as long as the Hogan match, that's for fucking sure.

He might have been breathing hard but he still won the match. And I wouldn't call a 20 minute match short. Mick Foley wasn't involved in too many non gimmick matches that lasted longer then that.

And besides, let's say Foley did lose to these mid-carders straight up, that just goes to show that he doesn't put up a fight against talentless motherfuckers who shouldn't be in the ring with him in the first place.

That's a great argument for Foley. Saying he doesn't put up a fight in all of his matches.

However, look at what he does against main eventers, which Warrior obviously is

What exactly am I looking for? Maybe it's the fact that he lost the majority of these matches.

It's damn near impossible to put Foley away when he's in a main event match,

If it's nearly impossible then why were so many people able to do it?

This isn't some mid-card match that doesn't mean jack shit

Good thing because based on your logic Foley wouldn't put up a fight against a mid-carder.

this is Foley vs. Warrior and anyone with a brain knows Foley would show up ready to kill.

Yes he would. But he would still lose.

 

[jmt225]

Every time Foley took a big bump it was followed by about 5 minutes of rest. He was never immediately pinned after taking an insane amount of punishment.

Wrong. Watch The Royal Rumble 1999 and look how many chair shots it took to put down Foley.

Warrior would be able to keep him down for a three count with his normal finisher.

False.

Warrior wouldn't have been stupid enough to climb to the top of a cell or put a bunch of thumbtacks in the middle of the ring.

What does that have to do with anything? IF what happened to Foley happened to Warrior, you and me both know Warrior wouldn't have continued the match, and that was my point. It's hypothetical. Do you know what hypothetical means?

He might have been breathing hard but he still won the match.

Yeah... and a gassed out Warrior wouldn't be able to put away Foley like he did Hogan.

And I wouldn't call a 20 minute match short.

Yeah right, especially when ten of those minutes are spent with Warrior bear hugging Hogan. 5 minutes of testing each others strength. 2 minutes of running criss cross like a fucking jackass. 2 minutes of lying on the fucking mat. And 1 minute of them both hitting and missing their finishers. Yeah.. that's exactly how the Foley match would go.

Mick Foley wasn't involved in too many non gimmick matches that lasted longer then that.

False. Foley vs. HBK from Mind Games is considered one of the greatest matches in wrestling history, and that wasn't a gimmick match and it lasted 27 minutes. And the Cactus Jack character had plenty of long matches that didn't involve gimmicks, as well.

That's a great argument for Foley. Saying he doesn't put up a fight in all of his matches.

The greatest sports teams in history make the same mistake. They take someone too lightly and end up having a shitty game. However, against top dogs, they always show up ready to compete and kick some ass.

What exactly am I looking for? Maybe it's the fact that he lost the majority of these matches.

Okay, but how did he lose those matches, again?

If it's nearly impossible then why were so many people able to do it?

I still haven't heard a logical explanation as to how Warrior could finish off someone like Mick Foley.

Good thing because based on your logic Foley wouldn't put up a fight against a mid-carder.

And like I said, the greatest sports teams and sports figures in the history of sports have made the same mistake. You think if Mike Tyson was fighting Muhammad Ali in his prime instead of Buster fucking Douglas he would've put on such a shit performance?

Yes he would. But he would still lose.

Completely false.

 

[NSL]

I'm going to save any arguing that may be left, for when voting is open.

I just want to know what would happen when the "unstoppable force" of Ultimate Warrior runs into a Cactus Clothesline. I've never seen one fail to send his opponent over the top rope, and out to the floor. He usually follows, which would just play into his kind of game...

 

[Tastycles]

And Hogan and Foley are two different people. You mean to tell me that Hogan could've taken the punishment Foley took during his prime? I don't think so.

Errr.... yes, actually. He managed to beat everybody with everything thrown at him, so yeah, he'd be ok. Secondly, Foley's resiliance was only to weapons, not regular moves. He never kicked out of a stunner or anything like that. Thirdly, Warrior beat the Undertaker in 1991, who was impervious to pain. So, yes, I think Warrior would be ok.

So? The point is, he put up a fight after what he suffered. You really believe Warrior would've kept fighting after that? Warrior was fucking put away with a scepter for fucks sake.

Have you ever watched that match? He's down for literally three seconds, then he gets up and chases Savage. Not to mention he was jumped from behind. When people get hit by a chair from behind, they go down for a while. Look at Foley when Shamrock hit him with one when he first won the title, even super Foley is down for a minute. Nobody in a match with Warrior has ever kept him down long enough to win with a weapons shot, including the Undertaker.

Please show me when it was just one little elbow drop that put Foley away. And even if you can, I'm sure I can dig up when Foley kicked out of the People's Elbow, even when there was a steel chair on top of his head to go with it.

But he still lost to it, at some point in 98 I think.

Okay, when the fuck did this happen? And even if it did, I'm sure there was more to Foley being put down then just Gunn hitting the Fameasser.

No Mercy UK 1999, I can't find a video, but the results are on Wikipedia.

He breathed hard all the time after his entrance. And just look how worn out he was against Hogan, and that wasn't even a very long match. You know how long it's going to take for Warrior to put Foley away twice? Three times as long as the Hogan match, that's for fucking sure.

Look, Foley was resiliant, I'll give you that, but he has been beaten clean on numerous occaisions and is clearly easier to beat than Hulk Hogan, do you not see that? Hogan had never lost at this point. He breathed hard? So what he still managed to win all of his long fights. Your point to counter the fact that Warrior wins is that he beat opponents, some of whom were better than Foley, in a short time. When he had to go the distance, he won. He has never lost a match longer than 15 minutes. You really think Foley is three times as resiliant? Show me Val Venis beating Hogan and you might have a point.

I don't remember these matches, but I'm sure there's much more to it then Foley just losing cleanly. Like, he was going through a bad mental stage of some sort, or there was a lot of interference. Please show me videos of these matches because I'm sure there's either A) Interference and/or B) The commentators putting over why Foley isn't in his right frame of mind.

I can't find them, honestly. Against Billy Gunn he got a beatdown earlier in the evening, but that's never stopped the true greats from pulling out a win. The Venis finish involved a chair, but I can't remember beyond that. Nonetheless, he is still losing to these nobodies.

And besides, let's say Foley did lose to these mid-carders straight up, that just goes to show that he doesn't put up a fight against talentless motherfuckers who shouldn't be in the ring with him in the first place. However, look at what he does against main eventers, which Warrior obviously is. It's damn near impossible to put Foley away when he's in a main event match, and you know it. This isn't some mid-card match that doesn't mean jack shit; this is Foley vs. Warrior and anyone with a brain knows Foley would show up ready to kill. He would never take Warrior lightly like he did with Gunn and Venis. So that argument needs to be thrown out the window anyway.

So, what you are saying is that he is going to win because he can't put jobbers away? Have you ever seen any other decent main eventer lose to guys like Venis and Gunn? The Warrior certainly didn't.

Foley's non gimmick one on one match PPV record against main eventers is as follows:

In Your House 7 vs. Undertaker (dark match): Lost
King of the Ring 1996 vs. Undertaker: won
In Your House 10 vs. Shawn Michaels: lost
Survivor Series 1996 vs. Undertaker: lost
In Your House 12 vs. Shawn Michales (dark match): lost
In Your House 14 vs. Undertaker: lost
In Your House 15 vs. Rocky Maivia: won (note, Rocky Maivia, not The Rock)
King of the Ring 1997 vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley: lost (note, Hunter Hearst Helmsley, not HHH)
In Your House 16 vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley: Draw
One Night Only vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley: lost
Survivor Series 1997 vs. Kane: lost
Unforgiven 1998 vs. Austin: won by DQ
Judgment Day 1998 vs. Ken Shamrock: lost
Survivor Series 1998 vs. Austin: won
Survivor Series 1998 vs. The Rock: lost
Rock Bottom vs. The Rock: won

That's it. So basically, a match where Austin was obliterated by the corporation, a match agains a green Rock, a match where Bearer hit the Undertaker with the urn, an one legitimate win over the Rock, leads me to believe that Foley isn't very good in one on one matches with main eventers.

A fwe problems with this...

A.) he's not wrestling Hogan
&
B.) he's not wresting Savage


He's wrestling Foley, a guy who's taken likely more punishment than anyother wrestler Warrior has ever faced before, Foley has been thrown through steel cages, flaming tables, he's been electrocuted, blown up in c4 matches, ripped open with barbwire, cheese graders, had his ear ripped off, fuck you name it he's been through it, and still gotten up and continued to fight, as other have already stated Foley will likely use one fall to whack Warrior on the head with his trusty barbwire bat, prolly a good 20-30 mins. into the match, so not only will Warrior be gassed but he'll be a bloody mess, something Warrior is not used to at all, so yeah Warrior picks up a fall, but Foley covers him for a quick fall to even it up, then Foley just has to further burn him out apply the Mandible Claw and Warrior either passes out or taps, giving Foley the win

Right, firstly one shot won't work, so he'll get DQ'd. Secondly, Warrior wouldnt ever tap out, there's no precedent. Thirsly, what makes you think Foley would last that long in a non gimmick match, when he absolutely never has before.

Wrong. Watch The Royal Rumble 1999 and look how many chair shots it took to put down Foley.

Watch Ken Shamrock lay him out with one when Austin gives him the WWF title.

False.

Bear in mind that Warrior has fought some legendary no sellers in Undertaker and Hogan, and never had this kicked out of and Mankind has been laid out by one finishing move on more than one occaision, what is your basis for this.

What does that have to do with anything? IF what happened to Foley happened to Warrior, you and me both know Warrior wouldn't have continued the match, and that was my point. It's hypothetical. Do you know what hypothetical means?

So Foley is stupid enough to continue after getting nailed, big deal. It's not as if he goes on the offensive is it? In fact, he actually ends up getting even more injured. Warrior never quit, and was never stupid enough to lure someone stronger than him 20 feet in the air. You can't hold that against him.

Yeah... and a gassed out Warrior wouldn't be able to put away Foley like he did Hogan.

Why not exactly? Kane beat him with a tombstone, Austin's beat him with a stunner, why can't Warrior beat him with the splash? Sure, it looks crap, but it is an actual finishing move that's never kicked out of.

Yeah right, especially when ten of those minutes are spent with Warrior bear hugging Hogan. 5 minutes of testing each others strength. 2 minutes of running criss cross like a fucking jackass. 2 minutes of lying on the fucking mat. And 1 minute of them both hitting and missing their finishers. Yeah.. that's exactly how the Foley match would go.

No, it'd probably be Foley rolling around on the floor for 20 minutes as he catches his breath, something that happens in all his fights. It's ok though, because the TV people can just replay the spot that caused it.

False. Foley vs. HBK from Mind Games is considered one of the greatest matches in wrestling history, and that wasn't a gimmick match and it lasted 27 minutes. And the Cactus Jack character had plenty of long matches that didn't involve gimmicks, as well.

He still lost though, didn't he.

The greatest sports teams in history make the same mistake. They take someone too lightly and end up having a shitty game. However, against top dogs, they always show up ready to compete and kick some ass.

Except he didn't as I've shown with his results.

Okay, but how did he lose those matches, again?

By being inferior to his opponent?

I still haven't heard a logical explanation as to how Warrior could finish off someone like Mick Foley.

The same way he finished off literally every single main eventer between 1987 and 1991 I imagine.

And like I said, the greatest sports teams and sports figures in the history of sports have made the same mistake. You think if Mike Tyson was fighting Muhammad Ali in his prime instead of Buster fucking Douglas he would've put on such a shit performance?

But that's Tyson's fault isn't it? You never saw Ali lose to people like Douglas hen he should have been in his prime, because he was always prepared. Ditto, you never saw Warrior lose to his day's Val Venis, because he was always prepared.

Completely false.

No it isn't. The Foley argument is this: he's hard to beat, so he'll win. Which completely ignores the fact that he has never beaten a power wrestler ever. Warrior has beaten brawlers, maybe none as proficient as Foley, but the point is that in a war of attrition are you going to take the guy who was still running after 28 minutes, or the guy that has never won a non gimmick match that is longer than 20 minutes? Foley has set no precedent as to why he'd win.

I'm going to save any arguing that may be left, for when voting is open.

Fair enough, I've got enough resources to argue for all time though, funnily enough.

I just want to know what would happen when the "unstoppable force" of Ultimate Warrior runs into a Cactus Clothesline. I've never seen one fail to send his opponent over the top rope, and out to the floor.

He'd probably no sell it. The leg drop finished everyone but Warrior pretty much.

He usually follows, which would just play into his kind of game...

Not in this environment. If he hits the Warrior with anything, it's a DQ.

 

[Miko]

Oh dear, Warrior isnt wrestling Hogan or Savage, he's wrestling somebody far inferior, I guess we should all vote against him then.

I've never seen Warrior get tired to the point where it's cost him the match, actually I I've seen him wrestle some pretty long matches and still have the energy to run around like a fucking lunatic.

Foley can use weapons, usually when Foley brings a weapon of somekind into the ring it gets used against him anyway.

I saw Sid Justice twat Warrior in the back of the head with a chair once, Warrior just continued shaking the ropes.

Savage got him in the back of the head with a scepter shot and Warrior chased him out of the arena about 3 seconds later.

Undertaker smacked him in the back of the head with an urn, Warrior still recovered before they could put him in a bodybag and chased him out of the ring.

So basically, Foley could hit Warrior with a chair and get DQ'd 1-0 Warrior, the referee then tells Foley to back off for the next fall, and Foley finds out that all he's done is piss Warrior off. Foley tries to tire Warrior out and forget's that he is a fat bastard himself and that Warrior has shown before that he does actually have stamina.

Yeah, I still cant see anyway for Foley to win this.

 

[ZEUS]

Just looking at the move sets of both wrestlers, I have to go with Foley. I seriously don't think the gorrilla press/splash would beat Foley, and that is really the only major weapon that Warrior has. On the other hand, Foley has the Mandible Claw, which took down everyone, even Undertaker. If the claw can take down the Taker, it can take down the Warrior too. Warrior never won with anything other than the splash or a flying shoulder block, which also shouldn't beat Foley, wheras Foley could win with the Mandible Claw, and quick roll up type moves, which might beat Warrior if they surprised him.

 

[Miko]

Just looking at the move sets of both wrestlers, I have to go with Foley. I seriously don't think the gorrilla press/splash would beat Foley, and that is really the only major weapon that Warrior has.

I dont see how it wouldnt, Foley's been pinned by the People's Elbow, the Stone Cold Stunner, the Fame Asser and many more basic finishers.

In kayfabe land the splash is on the same level if not slightly above the stunner and elbow, and way above the fame asser.

On the other hand, Foley has the Mandible Claw, which took down everyone, even Undertaker. If the claw can take down the Taker, it can take down the Warrior too.

The version of Undertaker that Foley faced was nowhere near as powerfull as The Undertaker that Warrior faced, and the Undertaker that Warrior faced was unable to beat The Ultimate Warrior.

Foley on the other hand got lucky against him, once.

Warrior never won with anything other than the splash or a flying shoulder block, which also shouldn't beat Foley,

I go back to the other basic finishers that have pinned Foley.

wheras Foley could win with the Mandible Claw, and quick roll up type moves, which might beat Warrior if they surprised him.

I cant see the Claw making Warrior tap out, he's never tapped out before. He's also never been pinned with a roll up either.

 

[SavageTaker]

Just looking at the move sets of both wrestlers, I have to go with Foley. I seriously don't think the gorrilla press/splash would beat Foley, and that is really the only major weapon that Warrior has.

The move set doesn't really matter much. Hulk Hogan had one of the best careers in pro-wrestling and he never did many moves. While there is wrestlers who had an incredible move set yet they didn't make it as far as other with less moves in their move set.

Also, why wouldn't the Gorilla press slam and a splash beat Foley. It was able to beat the Immortal one: Hulk Hogan, Now I know that Warrior is facing Foley not Hogan, but Hogan was considered by many to be better than Foley in basically every aspect of pro-wrestling.

Another major weapon he has is his strength. So the Gorilla press slam and the Splash are not the only "weapons" he has, Did you not see how ribbed he was?

On the other hand, Foley has the Mandible Claw, which took down everyone, even Undertaker. If the claw can take down the Taker, it can take down the Warrior too. Warrior never won with anything other than the splash or a flying shoulder block, which also shouldn't beat Foley, wheras Foley could win with the Mandible Claw, and quick roll up type moves, which might beat Warrior if they surprised him.

It is Funny that you say that because Warrior has the Gorilla press slam and the splash which kept almost every single person he has faced down. And yes Warrior did win matches without using a splash or flying shoulder block, he actually beat Bobby Heenan in a weasel in a suit match via submission, The submission move he used was a sleeper hold. And I know this because I was actually watching the match yesterday on my Greatest superstar of the 80's dvd. Also the shoulder block and a splash should be able to keep Foley down Kayfabe wise.

 

[ZEUS]

I dont see how it wouldnt, Foley's been pinned by the People's Elbow, the Stone Cold Stunner, the Fame Asser and many more basic finishers.

In kayfabe land the splash is on the same level if not slightly above the stunner and elbow, and way above the fame asser.



The version of Undertaker that Foley faced was nowhere near as powerfull as The Undertaker that Warrior faced, and the Undertaker that Warrior faced was unable to beat The Ultimate Warrior.

Foley on the other hand got lucky against him, once.



I go back to the other basic finishers that have pinned Foley.



I cant see the Claw making Warrior tap out, he's never tapped out before. He's also never been pinned with a roll up either.

I will concede that the People's Elbow and the splash are similar. But, Foley took a lot of damage before the People's Elbow beat him. That's a lot of clotheslines to hit. The Stunner is way above the Warrior splash in its effectiveness though. These are the top two moves of a generation, Warriors splash doesn't compare. And the Fameasser? Foley wasn't even a World title contender at that point. This is guys in their prime.

The Undertaker Foley beat was better than the Undertaker Warrior beat. They were similar in character, but Warrior's Undertaker was slow and didn't think. Foley's Undertaker was quicker than Foley was, and would actually use his head. That made him more dangerous. And Foley beat him a couple of times, but he took him down a lot. Every week for a while, it was Mankind taking down The Undertaker with the Mandible Claw. And it would take Taker a long time to get back up too. The Claw didn't make people tap out. They would pass out and the ref would stop the match due to unconsciousness or he would count their shoulders down.

Okay, Warrior has never been pinned with a roll up. But he has also never kicked out of any of Foleys moves. That is a silly argument, a roll up can pin anyone.

And don't forget Warrior's susceptibility to mind games, Mankind's bread and butter. Remember the Papa Shango incident? If a mid carder like Papa Shango can get that deep into Warriors head, then Mankind will have Warrior half beaten before the match even starts. Warrior was effective because he didn't question his ability. Mankind even had Undertaker doubting his ability, so he could get the weak minded Warrior feeling the same, no problem.

 

[ZEUS]

The move set doesn't really matter much. Hulk Hogan had one of the best careers in pro-wrestling and he never did many moves. While there is wrestlers who had an incredible move set yet they didn't make it as far as other with less moves in their move set.

Also, why wouldn't the Gorilla press slam and a splash beat Foley. It was able to beat the Immortal one: Hulk Hogan, Now I know that Warrior is facing Foley not Hogan, but Hogan was considered by many to be better than Foley in basically every aspect of pro-wrestling.

Another major weapon he has is his strength. So the Gorilla press slam and the Splash are not the only "weapons" he has, Did you not see how ribbed he was?




It is Funny that you say that because Warrior has the Gorilla press slam and the splash which kept almost every single person he has faced down. And yes Warrior did win matches without using a splash or flying shoulder block, he actually beat Bobby Heenan in a weasel in a suit match via submission, The submission move he used was a sleeper hold. And I know this because I was actually watching the match yesterday on my Greatest superstar of the 80's dvd. Also the shoulder block and a splash should be able to keep Foley down Kayfabe wise.

Strength is an asset, but Warrior didn't use it. He would hit clotheslines and thats it. Yes, he was way stronger than Foley, but Foley used/uses his limited power just as well as Warrior did, because he puts more force behind it. Being ripped is not a weapon. It is a look. And it only helps when Vince McMahon is booking.

The splash barely kept Hogan down. It was a quick surprise win. Was it a win? Of course, and all the credit in the World to Warrior for pinning Hogan. But, Foley took a heavier beating than Hogan did in that WM VI match, and still came back for more. It wasn't only about the ability to hit the splash, but how worn down the guy was before he hit it. And Foley is one of the most resilient ever. Not to mention the layers of extra padding he has softening the impact of Warrior landing on him.

And did you really use his Bobby Heenan match as a reference? Bobby Heenan was a middle aged manager at that point. The Warrior's sleeper never kept any actual wrestlers down, did it?

 

[SavageTaker]

Strength is an asset, but Warrior didn't use it. He would hit clotheslines and thats it. Yes, he was way stronger than Foley, but Foley used/uses his limited power just as well as Warrior did, because he puts more force behind it. Being ripped is not a weapon. It is a look. And it only helps when Vince McMahon is booking.

So what you are basically saying is that Warrior did not use his strength to lift wrestlers over his head and at times keep them there for different amounts of times. Gee, I wish I didn't have to use any strength to lift someone over my head...

The splash barely kept Hogan down. It was a quick surprise win. Was it a win? Of course, and all the credit in the World to Warrior for pinning Hogan.

But the splash still kept him down long enough for a 3 count which is what ultimately matters more than anything else in a wrestling match.

But, Foley took a heavier beating than Hogan did in that WM VI match, and still came back for more. It wasn't only about the ability to hit the splash, but how worn down the guy was before he hit it. And Foley is one of the most resilient ever. Not to mention the layers of extra padding he has softening the impact of Warrior landing on him.

Foley came back for more because he is not as smart of a wrestler as people tend to think he is. A smart wrestler would have walked to the back after being thrown off a Hell in a Cell. But not Foley, he came back even though he knew that he was just going to get his ass whipped even further by the Undertaker.

And what does the layers of extra padding used to soften the impact of a move have to do with a kayfabe match?

And did you really use his Bobby Heenan match as a reference? Bobby Heenan was a middle aged manager at that point. The Warrior's sleeper never kept any actual wrestlers down, did it?

Yes I did use his match with Bobby Heenan as a reference. So what if Bobby Heenan was "middle-aged". Actually he wasn't even that into his Middle Aged years, he was only 43 or 44 when that match happened. But the point of the reference to the match is that you stated that Warrior never won a match without using either the splash or a shoulder block, when in fact he did win a match without having to use neither of those 2 moves. I also seem to remember Bobby Heenan being a wrestler therefore the sleeper did keep actual wrestlers down.

 

[Miko]

I will concede that the People's Elbow and the splash are similar. But, Foley took a lot of damage before the People's Elbow beat him. That's a lot of clotheslines to hit.

You know, he wasnt just clotheslines, sometimes I wonder if people actually have watched Ultimate Warrior matches. Nonetheless, Warrior could dish it out with the best of them.

The Stunner is way above the Warrior splash in its effectiveness though. These are the top two moves of a generation, Warriors splash doesn't compare.

I'd put The Stunner, Peoples Elbow, Hogans Legdrop and Warrior's Splash on the same level. The Splash kept Hogan down, and Hogan was much harder to beat than Foley.

And the Fameasser? Foley wasn't even a World title contender at that point. This is guys in their prime.

In their prime? Okay, in his prime Warrior was more unbeatable than Foley ever has been.

The Undertaker Foley beat was better than the Undertaker Warrior beat.

No he lost a lot more in this time period than he did in Warrior's day, in Warrior's day he pinned Hogan himself, it was with help but he did it. He couldnt pin Warrior though.

They were similar in character, but Warrior's Undertaker was slow and didn't think. Foley's Undertaker was quicker than Foley was, and would actually use his head.

He was nastier, but not as powerfull.

That made him more dangerous. And Foley beat him a couple of times, but he took him down a lot. Every week for a while, it was Mankind taking down The Undertaker with the Mandible Claw. And it would take Taker a long time to get back up too. The Claw didn't make people tap out. They would pass out and the ref would stop the match due to unconsciousness or he would count their shoulders down.

The Claw is the only advantage that Foley has over Warrior, but even then people have escaped from it before and there has never been a submission hold that has kept Warrior down in any capacity.

Okay, Warrior has never been pinned with a roll up. But he has also never kicked out of any of Foleys moves.

How can he? He's never face Foley before.

That is a silly argument, a roll up can pin anyone.

Never did Warrior

And don't forget Warrior's susceptibility to mind games, Mankind's bread and butter.

Warrior wasnt bad either.

[youtube]v=78XbX5tVFeY[/youtube]

Remember the Papa Shango incident? If a mid carder like Papa Shango can get that deep into Warriors head, then Mankind will have Warrior half beaten before the match even starts.

He put a curse on him, that isnt exactly mind games. Besides Warrior still beat him pretty bad when it came down to it.

Warrior was effective because he didn't question his ability. Mankind even had Undertaker doubting his ability, so he could get the weak minded Warrior feeling the same, no problem.

Weak minded? Undertaker tried to play mindgames on The Warrior, Warrior still beat him.

 

[DhA]

Quite simply, the Warrior rarely loses, and Foley is famous for being a loser who ordinary peopel can relate to. His most famous moment is The Undertaker beatign the crap out of him - The Undertaker - who Ultimate Warrior has beaten, and who is supernatural/similar to the Warrior. Foley is famous for losing and/or getting the crap beaten out of him. No way he gets ONE decision here, never mind TWO.

 

[klunderbunker]

I can't go against Warrior here. People keep talkinga bout how Foley takes a lot of punishment. Yeah, and then he loses. People keep talking about how Warrior uses a lot of energy. Do you really want to bet on Foley being a sixty minute man? He's lucky when he's not gasping for air after 5 minutes. In a straight match, Warrior simply won't lose twice. Foley will take him farther than anyone ever has, but in the end he loses and that's all there is to it.

 

[Red Flash]

Being honest, it's almost unfair to have Warrior in the tournament, he shouldn't lose unless it's a very unfavourable gimmick match, wich is not the case here.

The stipulation is that the winner must pin his oponent two times to be the victorious. Years have passed without Warrior being pinned even once and now he have to be pinned twice in the same night to lose. I mean, the wrestler who managed to do such a feat would automatically be raised as the greatest ever. And despite Foley being one of the most entertaining wrestlers around, he isn't that guy.

Warrior's short matches can't be used against him. If he usualy squash his oponents, it's a merit, not a flaw. We don't know how much stmina does he have, but if you're gonna speculate, the most correct is to assume that a guy of that ridiculous size could keep fighting for more than an hour if necessary. He wouldn't get tired before Foley, that's for sure.

If Foley disqualifies himself with a weapon shot, Warrior would get up for the next fall doing that silly thing whith his hands in the air and the match would be over by the end of the next minute.

Mick is awesome, but unfortunately this is what happens when a guy who is remembered for the matches he won faces a guy who is remembered for the epic matches he lost.

 

[Uncle Sam]

It's not a no DQ match, is it? I don't think it is. A shame. I would have definitely voted for Foley if it was no DQ. Foley is infinitely smarter and more resourceful than the raging pile of 'roid-induced twat that he was to face. Without weapons, I don't see him making Warrior sell a thing.

 

[BooCocky]

You all crack me up, you want Foley to throw a match by getting DQ'ed? That makes no fucking sense, Warrior was at home in a WWE ring, he hardly ever lost. Probably like 4 times or so and none cleanly. You are expecting him to win the next two pinfalls? I love Mick, but I do not see it happening. Warrior beats him without Mick scoring a pinfall.

 

[JGlass]

As someone who really likes Mick Foley as a wrestler and a person, I'm sad to say he has no chance in hell at beating the Warrior in a 2 out of 3 falls match. If he drew a TLC match or some sort of hardcore match, then I'd CONSIDER saying Mick Foley could win, but Warrior is a tough opponnent no matter what. It's been said before, the Warrior was rarely pinned, let alone twice in the same match. The Warrior has beaten guys like Hogan and The Undertaker. He also had a huge title reign, lasting almost 10 months. Foley never held the belt longer than a month, including a one day title reign. Hate to do this to you Mick, but even if you come out as Cactus Jack, you don't stand a chance against the Warrior.

My vote is for The Ultimate Warrior.

 

[Miko]

Being honest, it's almost unfair to have Warrior in the tournament, he shouldn't lose unless it's a very unfavourable gimmick match, wich is not the case here.

I would agree with you, if there wasnt so much baseless hate for the guy. Seriously, I have yet to hear one good reason for why he sucks, all of his matches were enjoyable and extremely over at the time, he dominated people like Andre the Giant, he beat Hulk Hogan, I love Foley, but I cant see him beating Warrior.

Fact is Ultimate Warrior was the biggest thing in wrestling in his time, he was becoming bigger than Hogan, did Jim Hellwig fuck it up? Yes, I never said he didnt, but if you think of that then you'd be bringing up his personal life, which is against the rules.

I have only ever seen one bad match with Warrior involved, he had an injured arm and the match was nowhere near as bad as the reputation it has, its bad dont get me wrong, but trust me I watch most of the modern day botchfests and most of those are far less enjoyable.