Wrestlemania failed on every level from a fans perspective.

[Steamboat Ricky]

How the hell is Cena over? He sells T-shirts to little kids? He gets a reaction?

Yes. This is fake wrestling-101.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I really, really, really hope you're trolling.

If Cena isn't 'over' - NO ONE is.

 

[Alastor]

Orton was about as over as he'd ever be by time him and Cena were wrestling each other. The legend killer gimic and punting people in the head were what got Orton going, nothing to do with Cena and certainly not thanks to HHH. They fed Orton to HHH so they could set up Batista vs HHH and build Batista.

Sheamus was hot shotted to a accidental title win (They made it look like Cena tripped and fell through a table) so he could ultimately be fed to Cena and Orton and then derped around doing nothing of interest until finally making some waves on smackdown.

Again, I don't know how you can say the rookie (Cena) helped the veteran (Edge) get over. This is almost like saying Cena got Angle over.

What really got Edge over was banging Lita and screwing over Hardy, not Cena.

Cena and HHH were fed to Orton at Wrestlemania 24...
Why would they feed a nobody like Sheamus to Cena? Its like having generic jobber 11 fed to Cena. I don't think Sheamus has even lost clean to Cena yet but I could be wrong.

Orton derped around doing nothing because of his injuries and suspension.

Cena put Edge over as a credible main event threat that was seen as capable to hang with the big boys like Taker. Before that he was always thought of as a tag wrestler turn mid card champion. If Ziggler faces Taker/HHH today, would you buy Ziggler as a threat? If Punk took on Taker/HHH before his feud with Cena, would you buy him as a threat? That was what Cena brought to the table.

 

[Slyfox696]

Yeah, Cena did great work burying the entire Nexus angle

Buried the Nexus angle? He's the only reason the Nexus angle was successful in the first place. Do you even watch wrestling, or do you just parrot stupid IWC rhetoric?

that worked out real well for wade barret who went on to do absolutely nothing of interest as a result.

...so Wade Barrett was a nobody before Cena, a main-eventer with Cena and a midcarder after Cena....and it's Cena's fault Barrett isn't interesting?

Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Cena is not responsible for what a guy does after he leaves his program with Cena. Cena made Barrett look like a million bucks, a legitimate main-eventer. If Barrett's not good enough to carry his own torch, that's Barrett's fault, not Cena's.

and banging Lita is what got Edge over as a super villian.

What does that have to do with being over as a main-eventer?

But even that happened in early 2005...it wasn't until Edge's full program with Cena over a year later that Edge became a main-eventer. Again, you're wrong.

Please toss around some more grade school insults though.

No problem, it's easy when one is discussing pro wrestling with someone whose understanding of it is roughly the equivalent of a grade school student.

 

[Lee]

Yeah, Cena did great work burying the entire Nexus angle, that worked out real well for wade barret who went on to do absolutely nothing of interest as a result. Yet another case of someone getting hot shot to feud with Cena and zero coming of it as a result.

The alleged best in the world did that.

 

[Slyfox696]

The alleged best in the world did that.

Yup. The Nexus was pretty darn hot until they attached CM Punk to it.

 

[Shocky]

Cena never put anyone over while citing Austin as the champion of doing the job? People never cease to amaze me.

 

[Sedated]

Buried the Nexus angle? He's the only reason the Nexus angle was successful in the first place. Do you even watch wrestling, or do you just parrot stupid IWC rhetoric?

Parrot IWC rhetoric? Is this not the IWC anymore? If I wanted to parrot I'd sit here and proclaim Cena to be the most over mega face like the rest of you clowns are doing.

...so Wade Barrett was a nobody before Cena, a main-eventer with Cena and a midcarder after Cena....and it's Cena's fault Barrett isn't interesting?

A midcarder? Who the fuck isn't a midcarder that's not in the Main Event? There's nothing lower than the mid card anymore. There's the ME, The Midcard, and Zack Ryder.

Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Cena is not responsible for what a guy does after he leaves his program with Cena. Cena made Barrett look like a million bucks, a legitimate main-eventer. If Barrett's not good enough to carry his own torch, that's Barrett's fault, not Cena's.

The fact that you're defending how the Nexus angle turned out proves how out of touch you are.

But even that happened in early 2005...it wasn't until Edge's full program with Cena over a year later that Edge became a main-eventer. Again, you're wrong.

He beat Kane countless times, beat HBK, got a ton of heat/relevance thanks to banging Lita and feuding with Hardy, he beat Mick Foley at WM by putting him through a flaming table. He was already more over than he had ever been by the time he was feuding with Cena. All of those events did a lot more for him than pinning Cena after an elimination chamber match. He then went on to do a lot more of interest on smackdown than jobbing to Cena and getting DQ losses. His feud with Cena is mostly a boring lull compared to just before and after in the career of Edge.

 

[Sedated]

The alleged best in the world did that.

From what I recall the angle was already pretty destroyed by the time CM Punk was inserted into it.

 

[Slyfox696]

Cena never put anyone over while citing Austin as the champion of doing the job? People never cease to amaze me.

Stupid/irrational people don't bother with facts.

Parrot IWC rhetoric?

No, parrot stupid IWC rhetoric. Is your reading comprehension as poor as your understanding of pro wrestling?

A midcarder? Who the fuck isn't a midcarder that's not in the Main Event?

People who curtain jerk and get jobbed out, not guys who are holding the IC title?

Did you really just ask this?

The fact that you're defending how the Nexus angle turned out proves how out of touch you are.

I'm not defending how the Nexus angle turned out, I freely admit it was butchered once they introduced CM Punk to it.

But that's more Punk's fault than it is Cena. When the Nexus ended their feud with Cena, Barrett was a main-eventer and the Nexus was a legitimate threat. I can't help it if Punk ran the angle into the ground.

He beat Kane countless times, beat HBK

So? What does winning have to do with being over?

got a ton of heat/relevance thanks to banging Lita and feuding with Hardy

And still wasn't a main-eventer.

he beat Mick Foley at WM by putting him through a flaming table.

And still only became a main-eventer after feuding with Cena.

What part of this is difficult?

He was already more over than he had ever been by the time he was feuding with Cena.

I disagree, but even if you're right, he still wasn't over on a main-event level.

You say so much and yet say so much stupidly.

His feud with Cena is mostly a boring lull compared to just before and after in the career of Edge.

You're either trolling, didn't watch wrestling in 2006, or are just really stupid. Please let me know which of the three it is, so I know how to respond properly.

 

[Lee]

From what I recall the angle was already pretty destroyed by the time CM Punk was inserted into it.

Wrong. It was Punk coming Barrett going out and forming the Corre that ruined Nexus.

 

[Sedated]

Cena and HHH were fed to Orton at Wrestlemania 24...
Why would they feed a nobody like Sheamus to Cena? Its like having generic jobber 11 fed to Cena. I don't think Sheamus has even lost clean to Cena yet but I could be wrong.

Orton derped around doing nothing because of his injuries and suspension.

Cena put Edge over as a credible main event threat that was seen as capable to hang with the big boys like Taker. Before that he was always thought of as a tag wrestler turn mid card champion. If Ziggler faces Taker/HHH today, would you buy Ziggler as a threat? If Punk took on Taker/HHH before his feud with Cena, would you buy him as a threat? That was what Cena brought to the table.

That's what they do, they build up a lot of people just to feed them to Cena and it kills all their momentum.

Why build up someone like Sheamus just to feed him to Cena? Because it makes Cena look good but by the time Cena finishes with most his opponents they're right back where they started or worse.

Almost the entire roster being garbage is a huge part in it, Cena certainly doesn't help the situation any though.

The WWE eventually tries to build these people back up but it makes it that much harder to get behind them after they've been built up just to be dragged back down. It's just not good booking, it's like every wrestler requires a false start or two where they almost hit ME level... it's not even like they get repackaged or anything, it's just fucking bad. How many false starts had CM Punk had and that was long before Cena. It's likely not really a Cena problem and it's more a WWE booking problem but it's especially noticeable when you look at people Cena feuds with. They've been doing it with Ryback and now Jack Swagger, it's fucking terrible.

You're remembering Edge's rise to ME status wrong. He was doing a lot of pretty big things before finally feuding with Cena. He was already credible when he won the title though and I wouldn't say a win vs a battered and broken Cena did a whole lot for edge, it was just the fact he had the title. After that it was DQ losses and the like forever until Edge finally dropped the belt. He derped around with Orton to feud with the failure that was the DX reunion and then went off to Smackdown where he became interesting again.

I -still- don't see CM Punk as an actual threat to Taker/HHH. Were losses to HHH/Taker supposed to change my mind? What's the last match CM Punk won clean against anybody of note? From a pure booking stand point he's NOT a legit threat and really never has been.

 

[Sedated]

People who curtain jerk and get jobbed out, not guys who are holding the IC title?

Are you fucking kidding me? I stopped and didn't bother reading the rest of what I'm sure was a load of horse shit right here. Holding the IC title? The only person I can recall getting jobbed out more over the last couple weeks/months than Ryder/3MB is Wade Barret and Cessaro. Those belts might as well say CURTAIN JERKING JOBBER on them. You can find more prestige in a fucking cracker jack box than those belts.

The US title managed to not be defended AT ALL at WM and Barret and his IC title Curtain Jerked the fucking pre show and this is the midcard pinnacle? Getting jobbed out and left off PPV's? There is no fucking midcard, there's the ME and jobber status. What the hell show have you been watching? What in the hell are you talking about? Don't tell me, because I honestly don't give a shit and I'm done responding to your stupidity. You all can have fun circle jerking around Cena and proclaiming how he makes midcard IC champion stars.

 

[TLC]

This dude's a moron.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Some people "credit" Cena for getting Edge over, I prefer to use the word "blame".

 

[Alastor]

That's what they do, they build up a lot of people just to feed them to Cena and it kills all their momentum.

That's how you book your top guy. Hogan and Austin didn't do as much as Cena did in these past few years to put guys over while being the top guy. Reason could be probably Cena having a longer career as the man than both.

Why build up someone like Sheamus just to feed him to Cena? Because it makes Cena look good but by the time Cena finishes with most his opponents they're right back where they started or worse.

The probleme is Sheamus wasn't fed to Cena. Most of his opponents were elevated to his status when in a feud with Cena. Not his fault they couldn't maintain that level without resorting to using Cena as a foil.

Almost the entire roster being garbage is a huge part in it, Cena certainly doesn't help the situation any though.

So why bash Cena?Edge, Punk and Orton are worse at it than Cena. Bash them too.

The WWE eventually tries to build these people back up but it makes it that much harder to get behind them after they've been built up just to be dragged back down. It's just not good booking, it's like every wrestler requires a false start or two where they almost hit ME level... it's not even like they get repackaged or anything, it's just fucking bad. How many false starts had CM Punk had and that was long before Cena. It's likely not really a Cena problem and it's more a WWE booking problem but it's especially noticeable when you look at people Cena feuds with. They've been doing it with Ryback and now Jack Swagger, it's fucking terrible.

Again bash the machine, why single out Cena? I'm not even a Cena mark, I share you hatred of how the top guy in WWE simply beats everybody, but Cena haters like you that just bash Cena for it while ignoring everybody else doing the exact same thing turn me into a Cena defender. I think only Rock was the only other top guy that continuously lost big matches while being 'the man'.

You're remembering Edge's rise to ME status wrong. He was doing a lot of pretty big things before finally feuding with Cena. He was already credible when he won the title though and I wouldn't say a win vs a battered and broken Cena did a whole lot for edge, it was just the fact he had the title. After that it was DQ losses and the like forever until Edge finally dropped the belt. He derped around with Orton to feud with the failure that was the DX reunion and then went off to Smackdown where he became interesting again.

Edge built his entire persona after the cash in...

I -still- don't see CM Punk as an actual threat to Taker/HHH. Were losses to HHH/Taker supposed to change my mind? What's the last match CM Punk won clean against anybody of note? From a pure booking stand point he's NOT a legit threat and really never has been.

Before Cena, he had not chance of being able to stand toe to toe with the legends, after Cena Punk was seen as an equal with them. If you are denying it then you are probably blinded by your pure hatre for the WWE machine.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

I never thought I'd be defending John "Fucking Kendra Lust" Cena.

I agree that Edge was more over than he had ever been, but I didn't really pay attention to him until he feuded with Cena and after. Orton was built by Triple H and only got bigger by feuding with Cena. To date in the last 10 years, Cena's most interesting feuds have been Edge, Orton, and Punk. Speaking of Punk, where was he before feuding with Cena? I love Punk, I truly think he has the most talent out of anybody on the roster. But without Cena, he would've never made it to the main event and would probably be wrestling in ROH or TNA by now. Now he's considered a top heel and even a top face. Why? Because of his feud with Cena.

I really can't believe you actually said that Cena isn't over. How in the blue fucking hell is Cena not over?! The guy gets a reaction EVERY time he comes out. Whether it's good or bad the guy gets a reaction. That qualifies him as being over....more so than almost everybody on the roster. Whatever credibility you may have had before this statement you lost after it. I agreed with most of your opening post until I realized it was a disguised Anti-Cena rant. Those are extremely annoying.

Oh and Nexus. If not for Cena, nobody would've given a flying fuck about them. I do disagree that Punk pulled them down but after Cena left the picture, nobody really cared. Punk made it a little better but he couldn't save the sinking ship once Cena left the picture. I think if given an actual push instead of being regulated to the pre-show, Wade would've gotten over. If not for Cena though, nobody would even know Wade Barrett's name.

Is Sly a huge Cena mark? Yes. And while normally I just ignore him when he calls Cena the best in the world I do agree with him that Cena is one of, if not the biggest draws in professional wrestling today. And while I personally use more than drawing power when determining my pick for best in the world, he does have a point there. You're an idiot. Stop talking about Cena because you're too blinded by your hate to see both sides of the picture.

Now excuse me while I go wash my mouth out with soap and scalding hot water.

 

[Sedated]

Again bash the machine, why single out Cena? I'm not even a Cena mark, I share you hatred of how the top guy in WWE simply beats everybody, but Cena haters like you that just bash Cena for it while ignoring everybody else doing the exact same thing turn me into a Cena defender. I think only Rock was the only other top guy that continuously lost big matches while being 'the man'.

I think you've got the wrong idea. I'll defend Cena when it's called for even and I'm not a "Cena hater" I'm more a "current product hater". There's nobody on the active roster who I think is worth much of anything really... Ryback and Cessaro have potential but I'm not holding my breath.

Considering it's been 10 years of Cena he should have helped build a lot of new stars... and he hasn't. Blame Cena, blame booking, creative, the wrestlers, etc. The truth is it's probably all of these factors to a degree, I just mentioned Cena being part of the problem and everyone jumped all over it so I didn't really get much of a chance to elaborate *shrugs* I don't really give a shit lol

Cena should have heel turned on The Rock, that's really what it boils down to. It was the PERFECT time and would have kept things interesting with part timers leaving. Who else can Cena turn heel on? The only person as of this moment that it would have that major impact would be CM Punk and that's still no where near the impact it would have had if it was against The Rock. Who knows, maybe they're saving it for their 3rd match if that even happens now.

The whole product is a disaster, it has been for years but the Cena aspect of it has just gotten absolutely ridiculous, I was bored of it 5 years ago.

Can you honestly sit there and say The Rock vs Cena match had the desired effect? Both men ending up being booed. C'mon now, that's fucking atrocious :/

Generation vs Generation! Legend vs Legend! Two of the best of all time collide! Yet at the end of the night both of them are being booed? In what bizzaro world is that considered over? Fans don't boo stuff like this when it's good, they eat it up! Just like they have with Austin vs Rock, Hogan vs Rock, Undertaker vs HBK... at the end of it nobody cares about the outcome because the match was great and have respect for both wrestlers...yet with Cena he manages to get one of the greatest of all time jeered...

When people boo this kind of stuff that's not being over, that's people legit not being happy, there's just no excuse for that. The fans keep going "We don't like this" and Vince keeps going "Yes you do, your saying you don't like it proves it!" and the fans keep tuning out and it's like Vince doesn't notice simply because he still hears people going "We don't like this!" so that MUST mean it's super over heel heat...but it's heel heat for a face... but Vince doesn't care because It's over and it's drawing! Except it's not over.. and it's not drawing, people are tuning out, ratings are going down.

In what fucking universe do ratings on a 10 year decline = you're a draw? In what fucking universe does people booing you as a face chanting boring and same old shit mean you're over? Oh, that's right, the "WWE UNIVERSE" give me a fucking break.

 

[PsychoBlack]

Orton hasn't helped build anyone, he can't because he's never been that over, just like Cena.

Edge helped build Cena and The Hardy's at the least.

CM Punk hasn't helped build anyone that I can recall, he's also not an 11 time champion though nor has he been around for nearly as long as Cena, Orton, or Edge.

Orton put Christian over. He's been mega over since 2009 when he got done feuding with Cena and has been on that stage ever since. You notice how he doesn't have to be anywhere near the title and he gets the pop of the night? That's over my friend.

Cena built Edge no other way around it.

Punk just became a star he hasn't had time to build anyone. That's what his year long reign was for so that he can come back and put guys over now because he's an established top of the card guy.


You my friend are an idiot.

 

[Sedated]

Orton put Christian over. He's been mega over since 2009

Orton is so over the crowd started a "Thank You Big Show" chant tonight simply because he ended the match. The crowd was so bored they started chanting names for the hell of it. This crowd wanted desperately to be entertained and yet once Randy Orton came out they had to entertain them selves. Yup, he's MEGA OVER lmfao

Keep believing the hype that WWE tells you. You obviously have zero idea what mega over is if you think Orton is "mega over"

Also, Orton built Christian? What has Christian done since that feud? Has he even been on TV? Are you going to tell me how Orton built Kofi Kingston for your encore? Give me a fucking break.

Also I love how CM Punk winning the title from ADR and having multiple feuds until finally being forced heel vs Cena and being booked weak somehow means Cena got Punk over. Punk was over long before he started feuding with Cena and was already the fucking champion, you people need your memories checked.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Orton is so over the crowd started a "Thank You Big Show" chant tonight simply because he ended the match. The crowd was so bored they started chanting names for the hell of it. This crowd wanted desperately to be entertained and yet once Randy Orton came out they had to entertain them selves. Yup, he's MEGA OVER lmfao

Really? You're taking ONE crowd of <16,000 people in the smarkiest region in the country...a crowd that was chanting Fandango's theme song...a crowd that had just experienced the climax of Dolph cashing in and Taker being confronted by The Shield followed by 3MB v. Santino, Ryder, and whoever else it was...and suggesting that their chanting "Thank you Big Show" is the result of Orton being "not over"? Crowd had been doing this for a week...probably a little restless at that point, pal.

I mean, this crowd also was chanting "boring" at Cena. It was fun, but not really a representative sample of the population.

 

[Remix]

Really? You're taking ONE crowd of <16,000 people in the smarkiest region in the country...a crowd that was chanting Fandango's theme song...a crowd that had just experienced the climax of Dolph cashing in and Taker being confronted by The Shield followed by 3MB v. Santino, Ryder, and whoever else it was...and suggesting that their chanting "Thank you Big Show" is the result of Orton being "not over"? Crowd had been doing this for a week...probably a little restless at that point, pal.

I mean, this crowd also was chanting "boring" at Cena. It was fun, but not really a representative sample of the population.

Also, it's the night after 'Mania where the already smarky New York is bolstered by more smarks who travelled from further away (there was certainly a strong English contingent, for example),

 

[Барбоса]

Punk was over long before he started feuding with Cena and was already the fucking champion, you people need your memories checked.

It would appear that it is your memory that needs checked.

Despite having been WHC, Punk was still largely a niche market before the WWE version of the Summer of Punk that sprouted from the Pipebomb. It was that feud which got him over. And who was his in-ring opponent in that feud and the initial spark/fuel for a significant portion of his diatribe?

Some guy called John Cena.

That is not to say that the Pipebomb might not have gotten Punk over by itself but Cena definitely had a positive effect on Punk's elevation and almost certainly allowed him to jump higher than his interactions with McMahon would have allowed for, especially with the ri-god damn-diculous chemistry that Punk and Cena have in the ring.

 

[PsychoBlack]

Orton is so over the crowd started a "Thank You Big Show" chant tonight simply because he ended the match. The crowd was so bored they started chanting names for the hell of it. This crowd wanted desperately to be entertained and yet once Randy Orton came out they had to entertain them selves. Yup, he's MEGA OVER lmfao

Well you see, first of all it was just a regular TV match. That crowd was doing their own thing all last night. Orton gets a bigger pop then damn near everyone on the roster.

Keep believing the hype that WWE tells you. You obviously have zero idea what mega over is if you think Orton is "mega over"

Cena, Orton, Punk, Sheamus, and Daniel Bryan are the 5 most over guys on the roster as far as full timers. Cena's the definite number one Orton is the definite number 2. They out pop the entire roster every night and sell a shitload of merchandise that's Mega Over.

Also, Orton built Christian? What has Christian done since that feud? Has he even been on TV? Are you going to tell me how Orton built Kofi Kingston for your encore? Give me a fucking break.

Christian has been injured for a while. When he comes back I'm sure he could jump into a feud any where on the card as a heel or a face and i guarantee the people will eat that shit up. Randy did get Kofi over actually, Kofi just didn't have "it" to stay over once the feud was done. No fault of Ortons's

Also I love how CM Punk winning the title from ADR and having multiple feuds until finally being forced heel vs Cena and being booked weak somehow means Cena got Punk over. Punk was over long before he started feuding with Cena and was already the fucking champion, you people need your memories checked.

No one other then the smarks gave a damn about Punk before this match. He never even got that kind of response in Chicago before that match. Cena put him where he is now. That was a face vs face match BTW.



I can tell you know nothing about wrestling by your previous posts saying that "Orton and Cena aren't over" and Stone Cold built EVERYONE in the attitude era" Your a mark a dumb one at that.

Sly can we get a 200 post count rule before we allow guys to rant on the current product?

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I wasn't that high on mania this year but saying they failed on EVERY level is not true. Also, Cena not over? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen, Cena taking a shit gets more of a reaction than 90% of that locker room can get on their best day in their best match.

Stadium shows often don't sound loud because it isn't made for acoustics, they are made to pack in a shit ton of people.

In regards to the current product? Not a big fan right now. I'm taking a break for a bit, watch some TNA or something but not WWE. I don't think they have a long term plan but whatever, if it pisses you off do what I do, turn it off, walk away, get laid, play sports, play sports on the PS3 but don't watch it to bitch later, that's just illogical. I'm just not gonna watch it until RAW is in Calgary, I just need a break but it doesn't mean WWE is doing anything wrong, I'm sure lots of people like what they are currently doing, I'm just not one of them.