Wrestlemania 31 main event confirmed....

But of course you don't question the fact that the poster above me said you can be good in the ring without being a good pro wrestler. It must feel good to gang up on one or two people while blindly following the majority. The fact that 95 percent of the people on this forum are here to make others feel like shit about their opinions really makes this crap tiresome. Now go ahead and post that I'm butthurt or a troll to make yourself feel better because you don't agree with me.

Also I've literally never talked to a bunch of wrestling fans who know so little about the product. I mean so far I've heard that telling a story in the ring is not a real thing, that all it takes to be a good wrestler is cutting a good promo, and basically in-ring ability doesn't mean shit. I thought the IWC was supposed to defend the wrestling part of WWE not the entertainment.

Ah, there were a few guys that kept me on this forum like Jack-Hammer, Mustang, or Dagger... The guys that are actually knowledgeable about wrestling, but the other 95 percent of you aren't worth dealing with.

I'll tell you what. They're wrong when they say to be a good professional wrestler you don't have to be a good in-ring performer and when it was said that there are no story in matches. You're right when you say something like Angle is a better wrestler than Cena, but he's not a better pro wrestler.

You see, a good professional wrestler is one that entertains and brings in a lot of money. One way you can do this is by in-ring performance. In-ring performance on a professional level that is, not "just wrestling" as in doing all these crazy moves.

To make a good wrestler, yeah, that's what you need, moves. To be a good professional wrestler in the ring, you need to be able to do 5 things (learnt from an old Sly post):

1. Tell a story.

This is in the name, story. If guys are just hitting each other with all these moves, what are they really portraying? A good example of a story in a match is Hogan vs Warrior at 'Mania VI. Both men were built up as equals with neither man looking beatable. In the match, they came at each other with their best, both men handled their opponents best and reversed the opponents best. There was also a point where both men clotheslined each other. See where this is going? Fast forward, Hogan was going to hit his Legdrop, a move which nobody rolled out of the way from and got their opponent pinned on the first try, even André fell victim to this. Just when Hogan jumped and was going to land, Warrior rolled out of the way, ran and hit the Warrior Splash, followed by just about getting the three count. The story they try to put over is while both seemed equal, Warrior was just that bit better than Hogan, with the Hulkster effectively passing the torch. Hogan almost hit his finisher but it was Warrior hitting his and just about got the pin. Hogan looked strong, Warrior looked stronger.

2. Have good psychology.

Three forms of this.

The first: If I was Bret Hart in a submission match, I would target my opponents legs during the match so when I land my finisher, the Sharpshooter, my opponent easily taps out. So basically a well executed plan in a match.

Second: Behaviour. If you saw Steve Austin on first sight, what impressions pop to mind? A badass that wants to fight. So how would he walk, talk and act? Would he jump around smiling and talking with a high pitched voice or the way we all know he does? Get it?

Third: Your style. You see, Big Show wouldn't exactly come out to the ring jumping from the top rope or doing arm bars, would he? He'd do what you'd expect. Slams, punches, chops, etc. A bad example of this is presented by Luke Harper. While he does his mauling, brawling and slams, he's usually seen doing outside dives. To me, his alligator character isn't conveyed properly when he does that, as opposed to Big Show's 'giant' persona.

So number 2 and 3 are basciaclly ways of conveying a character correctly.

3. Have a good workrate.

Make it look believable. Self explanatory.

4. Sell.

Probably the most important. This gets the audience connected with the guy getting hit, represents a character and shows what's going on. Undertaker doesn't usually sell the opponents punches, that's to represent his 'dead' character who not many can beat. If a guy gets hit and falls down, then we can interpret that he's weak/scared while his opponent is strong/PO'ed. If someone is screaming in pain when in a Sharpshooter and is a face, then the audience pulls for him and hopes for him to escape as they can see the pain their hero is in. The crows is also connected here. Get it?

5. Be charismatic.

Getting the crowd to scream. Again, self explanatory.

So basically, you don't need to be able to land all these flips, twists and kicks. Do the above and you've got a great match. These are some of the reasons guys like Hogan, Austin and Cena are the biggest draws in the WWE, as opposed to guys like Guerrero, Milenko and Angle. If you don't like that style then I'd recommend you watch ROH, plenty of moves down there.
 
Minor point I wanted to raise - Dolph does actually hold a legitimate collegiate wrestling record - and apparently he's the second-best of all time from his uni, and won national championships as part of his high school team. Dolph could be called a technical wizard in IRL wrestling, and probably a lot better than many guys on the current roster.

But I agree with the sentiment of your post nightmare, and surely if we went by "legit skillz" logic, some unholy love child of Jack Swagger and Ziggler ought to have been the top star by now.

Your overselling point stands nighty, as does your point about Lesnar - he would eff up Dolph bad. And also the bold made me laugh. Good on ya sir.


I know he had a good record in HS\College. But being good at Kent State (I had to look that part up & yes seeing that it was Kent State made me chuckle a bit) is not as impressive as what Lesnar did. Sure Dolph deserves credit for what he did, but in comparison Brock wins. Plenty of current guys were good athletes or wrestlers in school. Does not change the fact this guy is waaaaay off base with his comparisons.


Angle? Hart? Benoit? Ziggler? One of those names sure stands out & it isnt the accused murderer. Ziggler does not ever belong in a list with those names unless its a list of guys that had their check signed by Vince McMahon.


But nightmare, Ziggler can sell!


Oh. Is that what he calls that? When I saw HBK do that crap in the Hogan match- it was hilarious. I knew what he was doing & thanked god that wasnt his everyday style. HBK does it once- funny. Ziggler doing it everyday but worse- terrible.
 
A bad example of this is presented by Luke Harper. While he does his mauling, brawling and slams, he's usually seen doing outside dives. To me, his alligator character isn't conveyed properly when he does that, as opposed to Big Show's 'giant' persona.

I see what you mean here but I have to disagree. Harper is a follower of Wyatt and when he does that crazy shit, he's doing it for him. He sacrifices his own body for the good of the Family. It's excellent character development.
 
So to recap, you can be good at something, but not be good at it at the same time. That's what we learned in "Self-Righteous IWC Guy" class, right?
 
Why are people still so up in arms over Ziggler? Doesn't matter what side you're on it's been established that he can no longer go any higher than where he's currently at. Almost everyone WWE tried to build up from 2006 to 2011 (such as Ziggler, Kofi, Rhodes, etc.) are just victims of the brick wall that is the star power of Cena, Orton, and maybe Batista or HHH.

The new guys they have now are the ones we should be in embroiled in pointless debates about.
 
Almost everyone WWE tried to build up from 2006 to 2011 (such as Ziggler, Kofi, Rhodes, etc.) are just victims of the brick wall that is the star power of Cena, Orton, and maybe Batista or HHH.


When he falls from the sky (or comes down from his trip- either way) & the paint washes off, Cody will go far. Maybe not legendary level, but I can see him having a solid upper-mid card career & possibly getting one run with the WWE title.
 
When he falls from the sky (or comes down from his trip- either way) & the paint washes off, Cody will go far. Maybe not legendary level, but I can see him having a solid upper-mid card career & possibly getting one run with the WWE title.

Whose career would you compare his post-Stardust career to?
 
Whose career would you compare his post-Stardust career to?


Idk really. Somewhere below Sheamus yet a few steps above Miz.

Maybe something like RVD without the hardcore shenanigans? Fans dont mind seeing him float around the main event as needed & he gets a little run with the main title, but does well with the mid card belts & is a handy tag partner to call on.



Damn, why all the questions?! By then Yaz will have put you in the old folks home & you wont get to watch television anyway except for Wheel of Fortune or re-runs of Murder She Wrote.
 
I love it when stupid people like OHYOUDIDN'TKNOW mix up the terms "pro wrestler" and "wrestler." Wrestling isn't a real sport so when we refer to in ring work, it's whatever style they chose to use. Doesn't matter if it is brawling, shoot style, technical wrestling, or acrobatic. And that hasn't changed through eras either. Back in the pioneer era you had men like Ed Lewis who were the real deal. Then you had someone like Gus Sonnenburg who wasn't. His lack of skill had to be masked in the ring, but he ended up with plenty of success regardless because he was still a good worker.

Pro wrestling is about making money. It doesn't matter what style you use as long as you make money.
 
Why? Many of the all time greats used that style... like Kevin Nash, Sid Vicious, and the Undertaker.

I think you are confused. Nash used the elusive style of tearaquad. I am not sure about the others.



That's nice.


Just for you buddy:

p0i0nVT.jpg


...and for everyone else:

tumblr_lmk73bC9gU1qed27ko1_500.gif
 
I love it when stupid people like OHYOUDIDN'TKNOW mix up the terms "pro wrestler" and "wrestler." Wrestling isn't a real sport so when we refer to in ring work, it's whatever style they chose to use. Doesn't matter if it is brawling, shoot style, technical wrestling, or acrobatic. And that hasn't changed through eras either. Back in the pioneer era you had men like Ed Lewis who were the real deal. Then you had someone like Gus Sonnenburg who wasn't. His lack of skill had to be masked in the ring, but he ended up with plenty of success regardless because he was still a good worker.

Pro wrestling is about making money. It doesn't matter what style you use as long as you make money.

I just like it when they bitch about the alleged gang mentality and persist on their own points like stubborn clowns. Maybe the opinion you have is just.... Wrong?
 

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