WM29: Aftermath and General Discussion

What match do you THINK we'll see for the WWE title?

  • The Rock vs John Cena II

  • The Rock vs CM Punk II

  • The Rock vs CM Punk vs John Cena


Results are only viewable after voting.
^ oh yeah and not only did Triple H stroke his ego with having his match after Punk-Taker (co main event position)

he also entered last .. which made no sense. Order of intro's for HHH-Lesnar went:

HBK first .. Lesnar with Heyman next and Triple H last. **if HBK is in Triple H's corner, why didn't HHH follow HBK?

and that wasn't even the worst part. During the match Brock got Kimura'd at least 3-4 in a ROW. And seemed unable to block it. I know this is pro wrestling, but come on now.
 
^ oh yeah and not only did Triple H stroke his ego with having his match after Punk-Taker (co main event position)

he also entered last .. which made no sense. Order of intro's for HHH-Lesnar went:

HBK first .. Lesnar with Heyman next and Triple H last. **if HBK is in Triple H's corner, why didn't HHH follow HBK?

and that wasn't even the worst part. During the match Brock got Kimura'd at least 3-4 in a ROW. And seemed unable to block it. I know this is pro wrestling, but come on now.

That sounds like an unnecessary and nitpicky complaint. Is the order of entrances really THAT important? Punk VS Taker brought a strong reaction out of the live crowd, and they tore the house down, so what's the big deal? If anything, you could make an argument for Punk/Taker hurting Triple H/Lesnar, because HHH and Brock had to follow the annual streak match.

As far as the Kimura goes, Brock was worn down, and already took a good beating. It's believable he was weak enough for HHH to lock in the Kimura. If Brock tapped out, I would understand you're complaint, but he didn't.
 
WWE WrestleMania 29
Met-Life Stadium
East Rutherford, New Jersey
April 7, 2013


1. Randy Orton, Sheamus & Big Show vs. The Shield - A good match to open the show with. I thought the match had a lot of energy and they did a good job of telling a story revolving around the synergy of the heels. The Shield members looked good at their first WrestleMania and looked as though they belonged there. The crowd lit up for the times when the babyfaces were in control. There wasn't really any dysfunction between the heels but it was ultimately what looked to be played as a misunderstanding that was the downfall. As Sheamus is about to make the tag to Show, Orton reaches out and makes the tag. He does his thing for a bit while the camera shows Big Show selling his dismay on the ring apron. Orton stalks Ambrose for the RKO but catches Rollins jumping off the top rope with the move. Before he can capitalize, Roman Reigns springs out of nowhere and hits a spear. Ambrose makes the cover and gets the clean win about the 11 minute mark. Big Show could have stepped into break up the count but obviously, and intentionally, didn't. The faces squabbled for a bit after the match before Big Show takes out Orton & Sheamus with the KO punch. ***

2. Ryback vs. Mark Henry - All in all, this match was actually better than I was expecting. it was a bit slow at times but considering that it's a match of two powerhouse monsters, I thought they did a good job. I was a little surprised to see how much control Henry had during the match and it became obvious by the time it was over that the intention of this match wasn't to give Ryback a win at a big ppv but to prolong their feud. The end comes with Ryback picking Henry up across his shoulders to go for Shellshocked. Henry grabs hold of the ropes, pulling Ryback off balance. Henry falls on top of Ryback's head, Ryback sells unconsciousness and Henry picks up the clean win at the 8 minute mark. After the match, Henry walks back towards Ryback, probably with the intention of putting him in the World's Strongest Slam, but Ryback picks him up and delivers Shellshocked. After a win like that, personally, I think Henry is better off back in the World Heavyweight Championship hunt than continuing his feud with Ryback. **1/4

3. Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler & Big E. Langston for the WWE Tag Team Championship - This match only went about 7 minutes but it had a lot of energy and they packed a lot of action into those 7 minutes. Bryan was heavily over with the crowd, as was Dolph Ziggler. They kept Big E. Langston fairly limited in the match, but he did look good as the big power guy. Late in the match, after Bryan takes out Big E. on the outside with a flying knee from the apron, Ziggler hits Kane from behind with Zig Zag for a good near fall. AJ jumps up on the apron to distract the ref while Ziggler attempts to hit Kane with the MITB briefcase. Kane ducks and lands a chokeslam before Bryan dives off the top for the flying headbutt for the clean win. Team Hell No retains. **3/4

4. Chris Jericho vs. Fandango - Not a classic, but a good match that featured good use of Jericho. Fandango really played it up to the crowd during the first few minutes of the match. I don't know how long this character's steam will last, but I'm enjoying it thus far. The match was a little sloppy in a few parts, but they were working at a high energy pace. Fandango looked good and held his own with Jericho, which is ultimately what I think WWE was hoping for. The end comes with Jericho going for the Lionsault but really overshoots Fandango, but he recovers nicely and tries to go for the Walls of Jericho again. Jericho sold that he tweaked his knee and lost his footing while trying to put Fandango in the Walls. Jericho is rolled up in a small package for the clean win. Fandango scores the win at the 9.5 minute mark. **3/4

5. Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger for the World Heavyweight Championship - I honestly liked this match more than I thought I would. Both wrestlers worked hard and I personally continue to enjoy Coulter as Swagger's mouthpiece. Del Rio & Swagger wrestled a good match that featured several good, believable falls. Del Rio teased tapping a couple of times while Swagger had him in the Patriot Lock and vice versa while Swagger was in the Cross Armbar. There weren't any real antics from Coulter & Ricardo on the outside, at least not nearly to the degree I was expecting. The end comes about the 12 minute mark after Del Rio catches Swagger coming back into the ring with the Armbar once more. Swagger does a good job of selling the move and trying to force his way out of it before ultimately tapping. Del Rio retains the World Heavyweight Championship. ***

6. The Undertaker vs. CM Punk - The Undertaker keeps his streak of very impressive matches going at WrestleMania. There wasn't a whole lot of flash during this match, but there was a lot of great storytelling, great near falls and a lot of back & forth action. I wasn't really sure what I was expecting out of this match but, all in all, I thought Taker seemed to be in better overall condition here than he has been in the past few years. While you could tell that Punk did slow himself down a bit for Taker, Taker was still able to keep up with Punk pretty easily. Their overall pace was much higher than it had been for Taker's last two matches with Triple H. The key to making this match work was to convince the crowd enough that the streak was genuinely in jeopardy and they did that. The ending sequence was really well done as Punk & Taker traded reversals, with Taker ultimately ending up giving Punk the Tombstone for the second time, this time for the clean win at the 22 minute mark. Taker is 21-0 at WrestleMania. ****1/4

7. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar - The live crowd wasn't all that hot for this match. I recall their match at SummerSlam last year got a similar response. I enjoyed this match a lot more, quite frankly. I thought both Trips & Lesnar worked hard to put on not only a good physical match, but they told a good story as well. They deserved a better reaction in my opinion. Though they were following Taker vs. Punk. I was surprised to see WWE put this match on right after that without any sort of a buffer. I figured they'd do the mixed tag match or something to give fans a chance to catch their breath. Lesnar looked pretty dominant here in how he handled both Trips & HBK. Surprisingly, HBK wasn't used all that much in this match. He attempts to help Trips at one point but is caught by Lesnar and given an F5 for his trouble. There were also some good near falls during the match, including when Lesnar delivered the F5 to Triple H. Late in the match, Triple H locks in the Kimora several times on Lesnar. Lesnar teased tapping several times only to power out of the move. The crowd was dead for this and, as I said, both guys put on a much better match than what you might expect from the response of the crowd. The end comes with Triple H delivering the Pedigree to Lesnar on the steel ring steps that'd been brought into the ring at the 24 minute mark. I think this match suffered not only from having to follow Taker vs. Punk, but I think crowd fatigue was starting to set in and I don't think most people expected there was any real danger of Triple H losing. Still though, I thought they put forth a strong effort, overall much better than their first match. ***

8. The Rock vs. John Cena for the WWE Championship - While not as good as their first bout, Cena & Rock still put on a strong match. I thought their match told an overall better story than their first bout but, at the same time, this match didn't have as special of a feel about it. After all, there was virtually no chance of Cena losing to Rock again, whereas we really didn't know how their match would end last year. They each hit their finishers multiple times during the match and while it did get a little old, it did seem fitting at the same time. After all, they hit each other with everything they have and no "ordinary" move is going to put either of them down. The end comes with The Rock going for the Rock Bottom again, but Cena counters and delivers another AA, this time for the clean win at the 24 minute mark. Cena is WWE Champion once again. ***1/2

Final Thoughts - Not a lot of surprises at WrestleMania this year. With the exception of the Ryback vs. Mark Henry match, all the matches went down as I expected. If you tuned into WM this year hoping for a ton of unexpected surprises to pop up, then you were very disappointed. If you tuned in hoping to see a lot of good wrestling action, then tonight gave you what you wanted. The undercard of the show turned out to be very good overall. None of the matches felt like filler to me. The Shield picked up another impressive win and Fandango's match against Jericho was what I figured it'd be, just a really solid roughly 10 minute match. Team Hell No retained the titles, so now we just have to wait & see what WWE does with the tag team division. Hopefully, they'll start putting more emphasis on it as they were doing before the big build to WM began. Swagger vs. Del Rio was a good, well wrestled match with Del Rio retaining. The match of the night goes to Taker vs. Punk as they delivered an outstanding performance. Again, the streak stole the show. Triple H & Lesnar did well in my opinion and deserved a much better response from the live crowd than they got, though the match did suffer from some flaws that I think could have been avoided. Cena vs. Rock II came out pretty much as I expected. They wrestled a good match that told a good story, though the expected outcome did lessen the impact of the match itself. Overall, I'd have to say that last year's show was better than this year's, though I personally didn't think this year's show was bad at all. It was too predictable at times though.

Grade: B
 
I'm with you. I was pretty pleased with the undercard minus I would have booked Dolph & E going over (although I would have broken up Kane & Bryan a while back so Bryan could have had a better match). That being said, I would love to have seen Punk break the streak (although I knew that wasn't going to happen...it would have put Punk on a main-event level which he deserves) I also would have had Lesner go over (what is he good for anymore?? Could be the biggest waste of money Vince ever invested in). Everybody knew Cena was going to win, I personally paid the $ in hooe I would see a Cena heel turn (which the oppurtunity was there) so at this point I don't expect to see it and furthermore i think it's too late to happen anymore. This was there chance and they blew it so I really doubt they will get my interest or $$ for WrestleMania 30
 
In the last 3 matches, 4 of 6 wrestlers are from the attitude era.

I'm ok with matches being predictable, but when the results of those matches having absolutely ZERO impact on the future of wrestling, that's when it feels disappointing to me.

Cena/Rock - Woohoo Cena wins yet another WM. Been there done that. Rock should have lost last year and be the end of it. Now he loses and leaves wrestling again, what a joke of a 3 month title run. Instead of letting Punk ride his title reign to WM, the WWE let him get squashed by Taker.

Taker/Punk - Taker is another joke of a wrestler. Like the Rock, he'll be out of the scene, hibernate for a year then come back and beat some other wrestler. Why does he deserve to win anyways? Just because he had a successful past? That's like asking Jordan to come back to the NBA at 50 yrs old and win another championship. Sure wrestling is fake, but at least make it believable... All Taker matches are predictable as long as he still wrestles at WM.

HHH/Brock - Who in their right mind would predict Brock winning this match? This to me was like a filler match, aka a divas match before the main event. I did not gave a crap who won. OOoooo HHH's career is on the line. What career? Wrestling or corporate? If it's corporate, then that would make the stipulation interesting. And Brock was just in it for the money. He wil continue to lose in whatever match they put in and he's fine with it.

I actually thought the undercards of Jericho/Fandango and Henry/Ryback were the MOTN's. I loved Jericho putting over Fandango and Henry dominating. Those were the two matches where it was entertaining to watch and the outcomes were exciting.

Another day, another dollar
Another year, another crap WM
 
This WM was a complete F. I guess I'm no longer the market that Vince caters to anymore... Not single moment was memorable. Actually I couldn't remember a single thing from WM over the last couple years....
 
That sounds like an unnecessary and nitpicky complaint. Is the order of entrances really THAT important? Punk VS Taker brought a strong reaction out of the live crowd, and they tore the house down, so what's the big deal? If anything, you could make an argument for Punk/Taker hurting Triple H/Lesnar, because HHH and Brock had to follow the annual streak match.

As far as the Kimura goes, Brock was worn down, and already took a good beating. It's believable he was weak enough for HHH to lock in the Kimura. If Brock tapped out, I would understand you're complaint, but he didn't.

no the entrance order isn't the biggest of deals. But wasn't HBK in Triple H's corner? if that's the case why not have Triple H come after HBK ... not last. Again not a biggie, but just seemed kinda silly to have

HBK ..... Lesnar ... and Triple H

yeah Punk-Taker was a great match and def a tough act to follow, .. but the Brock-HHH match, just seemed to go the same exact way more or less as their SummerSlam match ... and from what I remember, that had a pretty dead crowd to it as well.

Match did have some highlights .. particularly the super kick, suplex through the Spanish Announce table .. and to it's credit had a strong finish. Just didn't like it in some parts

and while Triple H locking in a kimura on a tired Brock is believable .. to do it over and over again (3 times in a row I believe) is just a bit silly

that's my complaint, that HHH locked the same submission over and over again, with Brock seemingly having no idea how to counter it. Which made for a silly WM moment.
 
I always enjoy Wrestlemania every year, and I found myself tonight wondering what the hell happened?

The Shield winning the opener was a good start I thought. Although, Big Show goes into an irate act and they just leave it at the knockouts of his partners. I was expecting a rating move after that happened and have The Shield come back into the ring and reveal that Big Show had joined and has gone full heel.

Henry and Ryback was just a typical big man match that was a filler so nothing was expected from myself.

I wasnt disappointed in the Del Rio retain job, but is Zigglers briefcase just going to continue sitting? Please don't tell me that a Cena, Ziggler feud is coming, GOD NO!!!!!

Taker and Punk was beautifully performed. The build up though pushed way more than what we got. It was done awesomely but I felt it could have gotten a lot more brutal than it did.

HHH needed to win I felt and he got it done. The match was way too simple though, it was typical and disappointing.

Fandango was sloppy and it showed, although I do applaud Jericho for giving this guy a boost.

I knew before Mania that Cena was going to win, it's time for it and the match was okay but all the finishing move attempts and reversals got boring as hell.

Overall, punk and taker won me over for the match of the night, I do blame the crowd for not sending more excitement. You can feed off of that at home. I just don't know what the hell was wrong with them. They were absolutely dead most of the night.

Your thoughts?
 
But yet it is ok to ruin Brock Lesner's Legacy by having him lose last year to Cena and now to HHH. It looks like Vince,HHH and company are still punishing him for leaving the "E" in the first place and now i believe his legacy is pretty much ruined.

Your concern is well taken but I don't know that Brock Lesnar has a legacy to ruin in WWE. More than anyone I can remember, Brock is a gun-for-hire who works on his own terms (which is to say; works very little) and receives a boatload of money to do it. After spending time in MMA fighting for real, I doubt he cares if he wins or loses in a scripted form of entertainment like pro wrestling.

And, let's face it; when his contract expires, he may stay or he may go; I doubt he has a shred of loyalty to WWE. You mention them punishing him for leaving years ago; it should also be mentioned he dropped WWE after receiving a massive push from the day he stepped into their ring. If they punished him, he punished them, too.

I guess the important thing is that he looked great last night. He worked with a master wrestler who led him through a terrific match. Although I think Brock may hit too hard for sports entertainment, I have to say he takes hard shots too, so it's all good.

As to the rest of the post, I have to agree; it was predictable. I was disappointed there were no face turns we thought might be coming (Randy Orton, John Cena, Shawn Michaels). I thought Dolph Ziggler was going to finally cash in. I thought Team Hell No was going to lose the tag title; the timing seemed perfect for a break-up.

The show was fine, but the major swerves you expect at WM weren't there.

Maybe tonight.
 
Overall I found it to be a good show with Brock/Trips taking home match of the night. They had a great throwback brawl kind of match which had many high impact moves involving weapons. Brock sells the hell out of matches as everything he does looks so violent. Loved the multiple suplexes he utilized against HHH. They added just enough wrestling to go along with the brawling and letting Brock utilize his wrestling is always a plus. Also a fan of the ending. While I thought and still think Brock should have won the match, the pedigree on the steel steps was a great way to end the match. Back to Brock selling, alot of people take the pedigree horribly and twist on their way down. Not Brock, he just takes the move as it was intended to and it made the ending that much better.
 
I liked the Shields match,they needed that win.
Even thought Ziggler didnt cash in that money in the bank, i would wanted to see Swagger winning the World Heavyweight Championship. Also was expecting at least for Ziggler and Big E to win the match.
Lesnar vs Triple H was average , the ending was so predictable nothing more to say here.
The only good match of the night was Punk vs Undertaker, i really enjoyed it.
As for their precious main event... i didn't even bother watching it , i went to sleep.

Was disappointing compared to other manias...no wonder the crowd was dead , but atleast Vince got his money.
 
It was lackluster. They spent so much money on fireworks but honestly, I thought the entrances overall really were weak. Shooting off a bunch of pyro is cool and all but what about the unique wrestlemania entrances? Punk's was probably the best with the live band but that's about it. Cena and Rock pretty much just walked down to the ring. I think they were probably running behind schedule so they had to cut off the original entrance plans for those two (at least that's what I'm hoping). At the showcase event, I expect to see cool entrances, not just a guy walking down to the ring.
 
Agreed very lackluster. Had this been any other PPV I would not have been this disappointed with it, but Wrestlemania is supposed to be the wrestling event of the year and this didn't feel like or look like Wrestlemania at all.
 
At a big Show the faces are SUPPOSED to win! Stop looking so far into it and just enjoy the show. HHH and Lesnar put on a hell of a match, the tag team match was great, you were surprised that Show turned and not Orton, Rock and Cena used a little something called PSYCHOLOGY in their match. It was a pretty good Mania aside from the Fandango debacle and the cluster fuck that was Ryback vs Henry
 
Did anyone else notice that the ring posts were different for WM29. All 4 had identical holes drilled into the inner column. They were symetrical and place at equal intervals throughout from top to bottom.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what they could be for?

At first I thought it was gonna be used for creating smoke/fog for the Undertaker's entrance, but that wasn't the case. The only conclusion I could come to is that it was being used for venting/heat. As they had heat lamps hoisted above the ring and it could have been much cooler last night in East Rutherford than it turned out to be.
 
Definitely lackluster. This was an okay ppv, and that isn't good enough for the company's biggest show or any of their other main ppvs. Bring back the tlc match for the tag titles. Put in a battle royal, do something that makes use of the undercard performers who never see any tv time. Where's the US, IC and Divas title defenses ? Make the event interesting. Those matches they had, I could have lived without maybe half of them. I could never have paid for that ppv knowing how underwhelming this event was going to be.

WM XXX will have a very tough time if this is what we have booking, matchups and match performances like this.
 
I think the majority here knew it would be predictable and boring. If the booking is lackluster, and the build up is lackluster...what do you think the match would be like? I thought Taker-Punk was average at best and severely underperforming for a Mania match. Same could be said about HHH-Lesnar...just horrible. Rock-Cena was pretty good though...had me at the edge of my seat with the back and forth. Still was hoping they would give it to the Rock, but whatev. I liked Henry vs Ryback though...was happy Henry got the win. Mainly liked that match because it was fresh and new..unlike all the others. And it wasn't unbelievable like Taker-Punk, who Taker would smash like a midget that he is compared to the deadman.
 
I thought the event had a strong card and the in-ring action was mostly solid. However, WM29 sorely lacked that signature moment that fans will talk about for years to come. And the NY crowd was surprisingly dead during the last two bouts.
 
One thing that really stood out to me was the fact that in 4 hours it seemed rushed. The rushed feel also affected the entrances. Jack Swagger's wasn't even shown and it was the World title match. We didn't even get one huge awesome looking entrance this year. All of this could have been solved by not having the God awful Diddy rap concert in the middle of our wrestling show. Other than that the card was very strong, Punk and Taker was great. Brock and HHH kept me entertained as did Rock and Cena. The Shield impressed me as well. All in all this year just didn't have that Wrestlemania feel to it, but I am not sorry I bought it or anything to that extreme.
 
I agree that the faces do win at Mania, but it was still just a bit too predictable this year. I thought we would at least see one turn like Sally mentioned. Never did I think Lesner would win his match though. This was tailor made for HHH to win, and this loss does not hurt Brock at all. He is a special attraction, and will continue to do well in that role despite the loss. My main problem with the predictability this year was we didn't have that one defining Wrestlemania moment that we will all remember for years to come.
 
I don't mind things being predictable. In the past, I've seen storylines and matches that make no sense just for the sake of being unpredictable. I don't mind it being predictable as long as the matches are good and have a good story to them. The build up and stories to most of the matches this year just was not there. Also, let's not forget that they are trying to cater to a younger crowd, one that probably hasn't had a chance to decipher what should be predictable and what isn't. Going back to the earlier WM that I saw as a kid, everything would be considered predictable by today's standard. RR winner almost always won the championship at WM back then.
 
HHH vs Brock Lesnar this is the one that makes me angry i figured out that Wwe Coo HHH (now in charge since Vince supposedly moved out of the way) would not put himself to lose to Brock because it might damage his legacy to lose 2 years in a row in Wrestlemania after losing last year to Taker.
But yet it is ok to ruin Brock Lesner's Legacy by having him lose last year to Cena and now to HHH.

Short opinion: Everything that Brock ever accomplished, every title, every big victory, every time he attacked someone is already set in stone as part of his legacy. Losing two big matches that he looked like he could win doesn't' take those things away, nor has his image changed when he is still beating the crap out of people.

Very long opinion: I understand and respect your opinion, and definitely know where you are coming from. My take though is that the whole ruining of legacy, who benefits and who doesn't, how someone "looks" talk that people frequently use makes sense, but usually is more of an exaggeration based on what what people want to see, than something that actually happens.

I pretty much said the same thing in a recent thread. Depending on how a match happens, a wrestler looking good or bad from a win or loss is sometimes based on nothing more than perception. The notion of someone only benefiting from a big match if they win, isn't always true. The notion of someone who has a legacy firmly set in stone having it ruined because they lose a match or series of matches even if they looked completely legit in those matches, is also usually an exaggeration, but again it is perception based.

A non wrestling example is Michael Jordan. He went from going most of his career without missing games or having less than 10 points in a game with the Bulls to missing a lot with the Wizards and having the double figure streak end. He also wasn't as good of a player as he previously was when with the Bulls. Those things (which were of course based on real and not predetermined factors) didn't damage a legacy as one of the greats that was already fully intact based on the fact that the things that he already accomplished were already set in stone. The same applies to the wrestlers who have already made their mark. I am not saying that Triple H doesn't have an ego but he is smart enough to know that losing two years in a row wouldn't ruin his legacy so we don't know if ego played a role or if it was a matter of the usual, good wins in the end concept coming into play.

I disagree that Brock's legacy was ruined. Not only is every one of his big accomplishments from his first WWE stint still intact, but he was presented as being an ass kicker in both of his WWE losses. He may not have defeated Cena, but he sure as hell beat the shit out of him, therefore preserving his image, in ring ability, and so on, despite having a bad three seconds at a bad time and losing. Plus, Cena immediately sold the fact post match that he had just been put through a beating, not in just the usual way, but in saying that he may need to take time off. Brock's in match presentation and the post match effect helped preserve the legacy, not ruin it. I wonder why things like that are overlooked. The same applies to the Triple H match where, unless he was squashed (which he wasn't), he still came out with the same kick ass image that he always has had.

Even someone like Benoit or OJ Simpson, whose images are tarnished for obvious reasons, still have their career accomplishments in wrestling and football and the positive portions of their legacy mostly set in stone, even if they aren't always acknowledged.

As for predictability. It was one of the more predictable cards imo but my (maybe rare) mentality is that even if I know what will probably happen, I hopefully will at least enjoy seeing how it happens. Now that it happened, I did enjoy it. I didn't love it, but I was glad to see the show.
 
WrestleMania was awesome, and that's all I have to add here.

That's great, now go back and read the rules of the forum. :)

I do wish WrestleMania XXIX had more surprises, like one, but surprises are a double-edge sword. WWE went the safe route, and rightfully so. They packed over 80 thousand fans into MetLife Stadium and likely drew over a million pay-per-view buys when the build up to the show was terrible and the two out of the three main events were rematches of not-so-great matches. The brand carries WrestleMania. They know that. They can do cool storytelling during the summer to drum up some attention, but otherwise, everything is in cruise control.
 

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