Who is Mr Wrestlemania??

[klunderbunker]

Shawn at Wrestlemania is based on memories, not wins and losses. He loses his first two matches, both tags then wins the third tag. He gets to singles and goes 1-1 in his first two, beating a Tito Santana that was on the point of crazy gimmick by then, then loses his next two matches, bringing his record going into the Iron Man Match to a whopping 2-5. That's pretty bad wouldn't you say? But wait, it gets better! He goes on to go 1-1 over three years, including a self admitted fake knee injury at WM 13 to get to 3-6. He's 3-3 since the comeback, bringing his record to an amazing 6-9. He's been at 15 Manias and has won less than half of his matches. Even factoring out the tags he's under .500. Hogan has lost twice at Wrestlemania and has one draw. Throw in that his lowest match was for the World Tag Team Titles and how can you say he's not ahead of Michaels? Shawn's WM career adds up to less than average and has two truly memorable moments. He wasn't involved in Benoit winning as Benoit beat HHH for the fall. Shawn beat Bret, and then retired Flair. Everything else is forgettable.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Shawn at Wrestlemania is based on memories, not wins and losses. He loses his first two matches, both tags then wins the third tag. He gets to singles and goes 1-1 in his first two, beating a Tito Santana that was on the point of crazy gimmick by then, then loses his next two matches, bringing his record going into the Iron Man Match to a whopping 2-5. That's pretty bad wouldn't you say? But wait, it gets better! He goes on to go 1-1 over three years, including a self admitted fake knee injury at WM 13 to get to 3-6. He's 3-3 since the comeback, bringing his record to an amazing 6-9. He's been at 15 Manias and has won less than half of his matches. Even factoring out the tags he's under .500. Hogan has lost twice at Wrestlemania and has one draw. Throw in that his lowest match was for the World Tag Team Titles and how can you say he's not ahead of Michaels?

Because you place WAY too much emphasis on win/loss record. Winning a match only really means something if a title is on the line, and has absolutely nothing to do with how great the match was. Shawn is a true testament to the fact losing doesn't make you in a match bad. Every single one of Shawn's WM matches is good, at the least. And I'm tempted to say actually, they're all great. When you hear WM, people talk about Shawn Michaels having great matches, or the Undertakers streak. Very rarely does someone talk about Hogan. So, maybe he was 'Mr. Wrestlemania' 15-20 years ago. But not a chance in hell is he Mr. Wrestlemania now.

 

[klunderbunker]

So we'll just ignore the amazing street fight that Hogan had with Vince or the true main event with the Rock at WM 18? You want to talk about title matches? Let's see. In WM title matches Shawn is 1-6. So therefore, his win loss record is even worse than I thought it was. Hogan is the reason that Mania took off. When Shawn was out, Mania got even better. The company truly kicked off and Mania became even more of a spectacle.

 

[HBK-aholic]

So we'll just ignore the amazing street fight that Hogan had with Vince or the true main event with the Rock at WM 18?

Amazing street fight, did you just say? Did you see that match, blank it out because of how horrible it was, then replay how you wanted it to go in your head? That match is just another reason I hate Hulk Hogan.

You want to talk about title matches? Let's see. In WM title matches Shawn is 1-6. So therefore, his win loss record is even worse than I thought it was.

Now tell me, which of those matches were bad, or anything less than at least 4 stars? That's right, NONE of them.

Hogan is the reason that Mania took off. When Shawn was out, Mania got even better. The company truly kicked off and Mania became even more of a spectacle.

Please tell me you're not saying this was down to Shawn being injured?

 

[klunderbunker]

Why yes, Shawn vs. Tatanka was a CLASSIC, as was him against Diesel. Shawn's early career is so overrated it's pathetic and his time at Wrestlemania is overrated as hell. his match with Flair was passable, Angle and he had a very good match, the triple threat may be the most overrated match of all time. The Cena match was just ok but was the most odd choice for a main event that I've ever seen.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Are you KIDDING me? Every single one of Shawns WM matches are great. He's underrated, not overrated. People can't seem to get over the fact in his personal life he was an idiot, and they think he's bad because of it. Calling him overrated is stupid, when he rarely gets praise - you being a classic example of that.

I laugh at the irony of someone praising Hulk Hogan calling someone else overrated.

 

[klunderbunker]

Let's see. Hogan main evented how many Manias simply because there was no one else believeable to do it? He pushed the industry and the ratings how high up into the sky? Shawn brought them how far down? Hogan came back to Wrestlemania 9 full years later and absolutely stole the show. He popped in at WM 21 to save Eugene and if you can't see the place is erupting you're blind. Hogan goes hand in hand with Mania. The biggest star of all time at the biggest show.

 

[Gelgarin]

Anybody who makes the case for anyone other than Hogan or Taker is clearly suffering from an advanced case of youth induced delusion, which caused them to believe that professional wrestling has only existed for the past decade.

Anyway, the legacy of Taker's streak is something that will endure for the life of the business, and likely never be replicated. That being said, I'm loath to award him the title for the simple reason that, during his early Wrestlemanias, Undertaker was simply an attraction. He didn't define the show.

Conversely, Hogan was the man the entire concept became shaped around. He was Mr. Wrestlemania. Not in legacy like Taker will be. Not in name only like HBK. Hulk Hogan was Wrestlemania.

I could go into more detail, but dd23beatlesfan1 has already said everything more articulately than I can be bothered to do, so I'd just advise anyone voting for one of the hangers on to scroll up and realize the errors of their ways.

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

Yeah I really dont see how someone could vote for anybody but Hogan. If you asked somebody to name the 5 biggest matches in Wrestlemania history Hogan could very easily be in 4 of them. I know many people would have Him vs. Andre, Him vs. Warrior, Him vs. Savage and Him vs. The Rock on that list. Nobody had more big time matches at WM than he did which is why he truly is Mr. Wrestlemania.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Let's see. Hogan main evented how many Manias simply because there was no one else believeable to do it? He pushed the industry and the ratings how high up into the sky? Shawn brought them how far down? Hogan came back to Wrestlemania 9 full years later and absolutely stole the show. He popped in at WM 21 to save Eugene and if you can't see the place is erupting you're blind. Hogan goes hand in hand with Mania. The biggest star of all time at the biggest show.

The highlight of WM 21 was Angle Vs. Shawn. One of, if not the, best matches in wrestling history. When Shawn hasn't wrestled for a while, then suddenly makes an appearance, we'll see the crowd then. Exactly the same would happen with The Rock, Austin, Undertaker etc. When someone who was a huge star returns, no matter when it is, the crowd will go wild.

Mr. Wrestlemania and Hogan do not go together. When people say Mr. Wrestlemania, is Hogan the first person they think of? No. It's either Shawn Michaels, or The Undertaker. At the end of the day, yes, Hogan did so much for the business, and he may be the reason we have WWE as we have it today. But were his WM matches anything particularly special? Did they add something huge to the business? I'm going to vote no on that one.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'm going to have to go with Hogan. Without him, there wouldn't be a stage for Shawn Michaels, John Cena, and the Undertaker to perform on. The Rock/Hogan match at WM 18 was one of the most important matches in WM history because of the magnitude it had. His street fight with Vince McMahon was my favorite match of WM 19. The only HBK match I consider great since 2002 was him vs. Angle at WM 21. I just couldn't get into his match with Jericho for some reason. I would have to put HBK third behind Hogan and McMahon.

 

[DC24]

The highlight of WM 21 was Angle Vs. Shawn. One of, if not the, best matches in wrestling history. When Shawn hasn't wrestled for a while, then suddenly makes an appearance, we'll see the crowd then. Exactly the same would happen with The Rock, Austin, Undertaker etc. When someone who was a huge star returns, no matter when it is, the crowd will go wild.

Mr. Wrestlemania and Hogan do not go together. When people say Mr. Wrestlemania, is Hogan the first person they think of? No. It's either Shawn Michaels, or The Undertaker. At the end of the day, yes, Hogan did so much for the business, and he may be the reason we have WWE as we have it today. But were his WM matches anything particularly special? Did they add something huge to the business? I'm going to vote no on that one.

Are you out your rabbit ass mind. Name me a HBK match that was bigger than Hogan vs Andre ok I'll wait. Hulk Hogan is fucking Wrestlemania nobody cares about Shawn Michaels outside of 20 block radius of WWE headquarters and Vince knows that. Lets name the biggest WM of the 80's Hogan vs Andre I'll wait for your rebuttal. Biggest Mania match of the 90's Hogan vs Warrior I'll wait for that rebuttal, biggest Mania of 00's Hogan vs The Rock. Lord knows what would happen if they Hogan vs Austin this year.

 

[The Todd]

Anybody who makes the case for anyone other than Hogan or Taker is clearly suffering from an advanced case of youth induced delusion, which caused them to believe that professional wrestling has only existed for the past decade.

So what? Is the thread not asking for OPINIONS on who we think is Mr. wrestlemania. How can someone who has not seen Mania's 1-14 pick Hogan? They have seen him twice, one in a great match with The Rock and the other in a match with Vince that didn't steal the show, unlike Rock Austin.

The fact of the matter is some people are not from your generation and see The Rock and Austin as the biggest superstars of all time.

We know wrestling existed before them, but it didn't have the same impact on us as you because we weren't around to see it. I answered for who TO ME is Mr. Wrestlemania, whoch i view as the person who has stolen the show in MY EYES from the Mania's I have seen, which is The Rock.

I'm sorry my opinion is "deluded" in your eyes, but I am entitled to it.

 

[Gelgarin]

The fact of the matter is some people are not from your generation and see The Rock and Austin as the biggest superstars of all time.

Alright, for a start, I'm 19 years old. I'm probably from about the same generation of you.

I grew up with Rock and Austin as well. The only difference is that I don't use phrases like "biggest superstar of all time" without stopping to check that I'm not spouting something ridiculous.

Saying that _________ is your favorite wrestler is fine. Personally mine's Lou Thesz... but I'm not going to talk about him in this thread because 'who is your favorite wrestler' wasn't the question

The thread was about who the biggest star in the history of Wrestemania was, as aptly demonstrated by the following quote.

This is based 100% on Wrestlemania, and Wrestlemania only. We all have our favorite wrestlers, but please, vote unbiased. Please.

Simply reading the opening thread tells anybody enough to know the answer, and the answer is that Hogan and Taker are the only candidates.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Are you out your rabbit ass mind. Name me a HBK match that was bigger than Hogan vs Andre ok I'll wait.

Angle Vs. HBK WM 21 was easily better.

Hulk Hogan is fucking Wrestlemania

LOL, stop being such a Hogan mark. Hogan is not Mr. Wrestlemania. Yes, he did a lot for the business as a whole, but his WM matches aren't the best things in the world. Hell, he's done better not at WM. But the first post clearly states "This is based 100% on Wrestlemania, and Wrestlemania only." Therefore, that shouldn't even come into it. All that should is quality of matches, and Shawns > Hogans.

nobody cares about Shawn Michaels outside of 20 block radius of WWE headquarters and Vince knows that.

I beg to differ. The only wrestling fans that DON'T care, are the Hart fans, and the smarks who hate him because of how he acted backstage years ago. People caring about him will be the reason his retirement show will be bigger than Flairs.

Lets name the biggest WM of the 80's Hogan vs Andre I'll wait for your rebuttal.Biggest Mania match of the 90's Hogan vs Warrior I'll wait for that rebuttal, biggest Mania of 00's Hogan vs The Rock. Lord knows what would happen if they Hogan vs Austin this year.

I will agree on the 80's, bearing in mind Shawns prime was 5-6 years after this time. 90's, I'll safely say there are plenty of candidates, not only from Shawn, but from a lot of wrestlers, so I don't think there was one biggest. As for 00's, Angle Vs. HBK wasn't just the best WM match from that era, it was the best WM match ever.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I voted for other. Though I don't think he's Mr. WrestleMania, I do think that he's only behind HBK when it comes to consistent 'Mania performances; and Shawn's had a lot longer, too. I'm talking about Kurt Angle.

I used to be able to remember his 'Mania matches off the top of my head. I can't any more. All I remember is that Angle/Lesnar was brilliant, Angle/Guerrero was brilliant, Angle/Michaels was - in my humble opinion - one of the greatest matches ever and I'm sure Benoit factored in there somewhere.

He also had a match with Kane at some point, but don't hold that against him.

 

[Milkyway!]

As for 00's, Angle Vs. HBK wasn't just the best WM match from that era, it was the best WM match ever.

While I personally think its a close runner up at #2, I think the Bret Hart vs HBK 60 min Iron Match, is the best WM match all time. But once again (to prove your arguement.) HBK, was in that match.

 

[The Todd]

Excuse me mate, but if you're 19 you have only heard or watched second hand of Hogan's main wrestlemanias. If he was what got you into wrestling then fair enough.

But for me, The Rock made wrestling, and he made me watch WrestleMania which makes him, in my etes, Mr. WrestleMania. DId Hogan ever make me watch Mania? NO!!! Did I watch WrestleMania for The Rock? Every year. Did the Rock always steal the show? Hell Yeah. Therefore, The Rock is MY Mr. WrestlMania, and I will not have you tell me I'm deluded for not picking Hogan (who I have been bored by at Mania once and thought was carried by Rock another time) or Taker (who has bored me quite a few times apart from a great match against HHH and a great match that was purely for Edge).

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

Again I think it depends on what criteria you are looking for. Im not gonna argue that HBK didnt put on the most great matches cause he did. Almost all of his matches at Mania were great so if your criteria is match quality then I can see you picking for HBK but my criteria is different. The thing with HBK is many of his matches werent in the main event and he didnt headline them. Sure you could say he stole the show but Hogan was the show which is what seperates the two.

Every Wrestlemania that he was a part of was centered around him. If his match wasnt the last one on WWF made sure to label it a main event. Like number 9 for example Bret vs. Yoko was the last match on but leading up to it when the WWF was hyping the event they kept saying it was a double main event with the other one being the tag match with Hogan/Beefcake vs. Money Inc. They would not do that with anybody else but Hogan they made sure that Hogan's matches were treated like the Main event. Hell check your DVD cover from 18 and 19, look who's on it. Its Hogan despite his match not being the last on the card.

The reason being is he was the headliner, the draw, the guy on the DVD/VHS cover, the guy on the billboards he WAS Wrestlemania. Which is why majority of the most well known and famous matches at Wrestlemania consist of Hogan. Whether its Hogan vs. Andre, Hogan vs. Warrior, Hogan vs. Savage, Hogan vs. The Rock all of those matches will go down in wrestling history as being more well known then any Michaels mania match save for maybe his match with Razor or his ironman match.

The fact is Hogan's matches just like his nickname are immortal. Everybody remembers those matches I named and most of them happened almost 20 years ago(Andre was even longer). Do you think 20 years from now people are gonna remember HBk's match with Angle? Or his match with Jericho or any other of his matches that were on the undercard as good as they might have been? Sure the die hards are but to most people they will be an after thought but even then people will still remember Hogan's matches. Another thing about Hogan is if you look at it from a kayfabe standpoint Hogan had a great record. Only twice did he get beat. Except for the match against Hart every main event Mania match HBK was in he lost. Im not necessarily saying thats a huge deal because we all know wrestling is pre-determined but that is just one more thing in Hogan's favor if you want to look at it like that.

Basically what it boils down to for me is when I hear the word "Wrestlemania" I think of Hogan which is why I feel he is Mr. Wrestlemania. Just because HBK likes to call himself that doesnt mean he is, if whatever wrestlers called themselves were true we would never have a discussion about who the best ever is because it would be Bret Hart cause after all he did say he was the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be.