What is wrong with spot matches?

[CelticCorey]

For months and months I have read how people have shat on people because they do a lot of high flying shit. So fucking what? I have read for so long that John Morrison is a spot monkey. I think he is a good wrestler. He does a lot of crazy shit. Big deal. You guys try attempting what he did at the Royal Rumble or even better, EC. I said in another thread I will take ring skills over mic skills anyday. Not because I am a smark but because I want to enjoy a good match and if I pay for a PPV, I want a damn good main event. Cena and Miz are two of the top five, perhaps top three mic workers in WWE but do I want to see them wrestle a match? As much as I love The Miz, I can't get into it. Mania 27 was better than I expected but it was no HHH/Undertaker. Morrison may have the worst mic skills out of the three but that's a testament to how good Miz and Cena are on the mic even if Cena is forced as all hell on the stick. Morrison, even as a face, isn't bad on the mic. Yes I said it. Miz could carry Morrison on the mic, Morrison could carry Miz in the ring. For those who say Morrison can't tell a story, he sold the fuck out of his leg injury at EC.

I see so much fucking hate for Sin Cara. Like the IWC is trying to bury Sin Cara. I fucking love this guy. He absolutely wows me. Yeah he botches but botches will happen. Even with a trampoline his flip into the ring is incredible. The kind of shit he does no one could do on the roster. It's just eye popping and really stands out and I tend to get behind him for it. But no, you guys will call him just a bunch of spot monkeys.

Speaking of Sin Cara, I saw on wrestlingforum (or was it here?) someone wanted to see Sin Cara vs. A.J. Styles but another poster said it would be the worst match ever because it'd be all spots. So? Spots really get me pumped up and absolutely wow me. A.J. and Sin Cara are both outstanding workers and I wanna see a back and forth fast paced highflying match. It gets me excited. And dare I say it I would love Sin Cara in my main event.

I saw someone on here shit on the opening match at Lockdown because it was an X Division match and it's a spotfest and all that shit. Well guess what, I like that kind of stuff. There's nothing wrong with it. It adds substance, flavor. I don't know what's wrong with it.

Now, there are a handful of wrestlers that I like that don't do a lot of high flying crazy moves. My favorite wrestler Sheamus does an occasional spring board but I like him because he can wrestle, he is good on the mic and when he first debuted he was such a badass before creative decided to drop the ball and make him look chickenshit. You make the Miz look chickenshit. Sheamus could fucking hurt someone and actually looks intimidating.

Christian can fly and so can Bryan but both have nice move arsenals. Cody Rhodes, R-Truth I liked even if What's Up was annoying, love Del Rio, I like Ziggler a lot just to name a few. My favorite match of Wrestlemania 27 was HHH/Taker. Neither one is your ideal wrestler to do those type of moves but it was intense. So was Angle/Jarrett. That shit was off the wall.

I don't hold it against wrestlers if they don't do high flying flips but if they do, then it definitely is an added bonus and might bump up my grade on the match a little bit more. But for the life of me, I just want to know, why the hate on the high flyers who do a bunch of cool flips? What's wrong with it?

 

[Slyfox696]

But for the life of me, I just want to know, why the hate on the high flyers who do a bunch of cool flips? What's wrong with it?

The problem with it is that it requires no skill to do. It requires athleticism, but guys who can do flips are a dime a dozen in pro wrestling. The BEST wrestlers are guys who are able to incorporate good storytelling in their matches, who know how to work the crowd into believing their match is real, who can get the fans to care about their characters, without resorting to flippys which can be done by a ton of wrestlers.

Furthermore, if I want to watch a bunch of flips, I'd just go to a circus. But I want to watch guys who can put on a performance in the ring. Flips can be a part of a match, but when you have nothing else to offer a crowd to make them care about you, it just shows a complete lack of professional wrestling ability.

 

[CelticCorey]

Ok so it's not your traditional wrestling ability. But if John Morrison was just a standard wrestler who didn't do a bunch of crazy shit, would he have been as over? I don't think so. What if Sin Cara wrestled like..Dolph Ziggler. I think he would come out to crickets.

It requires no skill? Ok. We'll have to agree to disagree to do that. I could certainly believe a high flyers match is real. Absolutely. I manage to care about Morrison and Sin Cara's character too.


It's not a requirement that this happens. I can enjoy a match without it but like I said it's a cherry on top for me.

 

[Slyfox696]

Ok so it's not your traditional wrestling ability. But if John Morrison was just a standard wrestler who didn't do a bunch of crazy shit, would he have been as over? I don't think so.

Yes...but that's the point. Imagine if the WWE signed 7 other guys and they let them do all the twist and flips as well. Would we care about John Morrison at all then? Imagine if Bourne, Benjamin, Mysterio, AJ Styles, a young Rey Mysterio, Sin Cara, and Jeff Hardy were all in the WWE, and were all allowed to do their crazy flips and athletic moves.

Would anyone give a damn about John Morrison anymore? Of course not, because he would have nothing to bring to the table, and certainly not compared to guys like Myserio, Styles, Sin Cara, Hardy, etc., who are all better workers overall.

Like I said, when you have nothing to offer but crazy spots, then it's a sign you're not a good pro wrestler, and you're easily replaceable. John Cena is able to put on high quality matches, he's able to make people care about his character, he is able to tell stories in the ring, and does so without having to resort to a bunch of flips. Can you find me anyone who can replace John Cena right now? Of course not.

That's the difference between a Morrison and a Cena. Cena's a great wrestler, who can put on a good match in any number of circumstances, and Morrison is mediocre wrestler who HAS to perform crazy athletic spots to keep fans' attention.

It requires no skill?

No professional wrestling skill. I can watch any number of YouTube videos and see backyard wrestlers doing a bunch of flips.

 

[CelticCorey]

I know you're a fan of John Cena but damnit I don't think he's that good of a wrestler. Cena makes me enjoy a match of his if he is carried. He makes me care about his character because I fucking despise it and it gets under my skin. He tells a story of how he gets his ass kicked and he's always down and out and then he wins out of nowhere. John Cena is a decent wrestler but I refuse to believe he is on the level of others.

I care about Morrison because of the shit that he does. The slide under the ladder at TLC, the wall jump at the Royal Rumble, the top of the chamber at EC. There's a reason that my two favorite tag teams in TNA are MCMG and Gen Me because of the crazy shit they pulled off. Their Ultimate X Match at Destination X 2010 is one of the most amazing things I have seen in all of my years as a wrestler.

I'm sorry that the majority of the IWC doesn't like that kind of stuff but I love every second of it and I wouldn't consider myself the typical IWC'er.

 

[Slyfox696]

I know you're a fan of John Cena but damnit I don't think he's that good of a wrestler. Cena makes me enjoy a match of his if he is carried. He makes me care about his character because I fucking despise it and it gets under my skin. He tells a story of how he gets his ass kicked and he's always down and out and then he wins out of nowhere. John Cena is a decent wrestler but I refuse to believe he is on the level of others.

Yes, but then again, you think being a spot monkey can make someone a good wrestler.

Anyone who pays attention to the deeper aspects of pro wrestling, and doesn't just watch the moves like an uneducated mark, knows the true value and quality of John Cena. That's not just my opinion, that's the opinion of guys like Kurt Angle, Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, Chris Jericho, and others.

I care about Morrison because of the shit that he does. The slide under the ladder at TLC, the wall jump at the Royal Rumble, the top of the chamber at EC. There's a reason that my two favorite tag teams in TNA are MCMG and Gen Me because of the crazy shit they pulled off. Their Ultimate X Match at Destination X 2010 is one of the most amazing things I have seen in all of my years as a wrestler.

I'm sorry that the majority of the IWC doesn't like that kind of stuff but I love every second of it and I wouldn't consider myself the typical IWC'er.

You're not understanding. There's nothing wrong with liking those guys, but you've yet to address the fact you can put a circus monkey in the ring and do those same spots. When the only way you can make people care about you is based upon doing things every third wrestler can do, then you're not a very good worker, and you're really not that valuable. If Morrison had the physique of Amazing Red, he'd have been fired years ago.

Being a spot monkey takes essentially no skill, just a lot of guts (or stupidity, depending upon how you look at it). There's a reason the best wrestlers and biggest draws in wrestler got to be where they were, and if you notice, none of them have ever depended upon high spots to get over. Even Mick Foley, whose career was forever changed after Hell in a Cell, didn't allow that to define his ability in the ring, and Foley is recognized as one of the great ring psychologists of the modern era.

Crazy spots does not make a good wrestler.

 

[CelticCorey]

I try watching John Cena but I can't get into him. He gets his ass kicked the majority of the match, he does his usual five moves of doom (Which I wouldn't have a problem with if the moves themselves didn't suck) and he wins the match and he tends to no sell a lot. I didn't have a problem with him winning at Elimination Chamber. But how he won it. He was out like a light almost the whole match, gives one FU and then he wins. Like seriously? How am I supposed to believe that? And I do stand by the notion that you are a good wrestler if you do a lot of high flying shit. Again, Cena's not as bad as typical IWC smarks say he is but there are so many better wrestlers IMO than John Cena.

Are circus monkeys trained professional wrestlers? No? That's what I thought. And John Morrison can certainly tell a story. Doing what he does requires amazingly hard work IMO and not something everybody can do.

 

[Slyfox696]

And I do stand by the notion that you are a good wrestler if you do a lot of high flying shit.

Which says a lot about your ability to understand wrestling. If guys who do a lot of high flying shit are such good wrestlers, how come NONE of them have ever been a top draw? Because simply doing high flying stuff has nothing to do with being a good wrestler. Now, you can be a good wrestler who does high flying moves (like a Rey Mysterio, for example), but the simple act of doing high spots doesn't make you a good wrestler.

Are circus monkeys trained professional wrestlers? No? That's what I thought.

You realize that's my point right? They're not professional wrestlers, and can still do the same spots thse guys you call "good wrestlers" do. Can a circus monkey get in the ring and tell a story? No? Then that proves me right.

And John Morrison can certainly tell a story.

He's a completely mediocre wrestler. If he didn't do high spots, would anyone give a damn about him? Of course not. Compare that to AJ Styles. A few years back (roughly 2007), he went from a face to a heel, and took his high-flying face moves and traded them in for more grounded heel moves. Did people quit caring about AJ Styles? No, they became more interested in his character than ever before. THAT'S a good wrestler. If Morrison quit doing his athletic moves tomorrow, people wouldn't still care about him. That's not a good wrestler.

Doing what he does requires amazingly hard work IMO and not something everybody can do.

I agree it's hard work, but hard work is not synonymous with good work. It never has been and never will be. I'm not interested in hard work, I'm interested in good work.

 

[CelticCorey]

I think hard work is good work. Not only do guys like that bust their asses off, they execute shit and and absolutely wow me.

No they can't still do the same spots these supposed spot monkeys do. Maybe they could be if they were actually trained. High flyers are trained. It's just their style. It's dangerous shit with what they do. Not just any circus monkey could do what Sin Cara could do.


And these guys could definitely draw me. They get themselves over that way. And I think other high flyers do good moves too and are still good wrestlers.

As far as John Morrison being a medicore performer? Don't talk to me again until you've watched the RAW Elimination Chamber.

 

[jacdnwarrior]

I wouldn't mind high flying if the story telling was better. The high flying moves prove athleticism but how those moves are used, tells you whether or not they are great storytellers. The problem is this: many high fliers just don't understand ring/ match psychology or how to be great story tellers in the ring. Tbh, match psychology, (or storytelling in the ring) is something many performers high fliers or not, just don't understand. When they simply just do high flying move after high flying move just to show they can do it without any sense of stringing along moves to perform a decent match.

What happens to most high fliers is they usually have chronic injuries, especially in their legs or back, and have to resort to less difficult moves to do in the ring or they shorten their careers. Take a look at Edge. The moves he did in his career early on, shortened his career. SO while I like the high flying moves, it needs to be part of an effort to give a decent match that is trying to tell a decent story with some psychology behind the moveset and the spots may over time be more harmful to them as performers than helpful to their careers.

 

[HBK/RKO]

There is nothing wrong with spot matches they can be very entertaining to watch but the fact of the matter is most of the wrestlers who are spot monkeys aren't very good wrestlers and usually can't capture the audience on the mic such Jeff hardy or John Morrison. They can certainly get the crowd going with a few spots but that's about it. To me they just aren't complete wrestlers that can do it all such as HBK, Edge, Chris Jericho who can do spots and everything else as well.

 

[The Universal Re-monster]

I really don't understand the thought process on this one. High risk spots and moves get some of the biggest reactions from crowds and are absolutely in need of having skill to pull off. But they're labeled as something that takes no skill and won't get over? Sounds like a bunch of hate from people who 3 boxes of Krispy Kreme past touching their toes let alone doing a back flip. Spot matches are awesome, deal with it.

* O, and if you routinely pull 25 foot swantons off titantrons, or can pull a dead on Spiderman impression in any given match you don't need to be good on the mic... you need to booked so youre not put in a position to be on the mic. the writers really need to stop being lazy and put these guys in roles they can actually pull off, and quit trying to force shit on them.

 

[Slyfox696]

I really don't understand the thought process on this one. High risk spots and moves get some of the biggest reactions from crowds and are absolutely in need of having skill to pull off. But they're labeled as something that takes no skill and won't get over?

Yes, because you have to understand the point of professional wrestling, and the concept of the Law of Diminishing Returns.

Let's first discuss that Law of Diminishing Returns. If you've been a wrestling fan for a while, you remember what it used to mean to get hit with a chair. In the old days, a chair shot was a HUGE thing. It was incredibly painful and would simply wipe out the person who got hit with it. The reason? Because it happened so rarely, it was built as a crowd shocking moment when someone got hit with a chair.

Now, today, if someone gets hit with a chair, do you consider it to be that special? Is the guy who got hit with the chair just laid out for the rest of the match? No, because chair shots have been used so many times that fans no longer consider a chair shot to be something special.

Now, apply that same logic to high spots. Macho Man Randy Savage used to end his matches with an elbow drop off of the top rope. Going to the top rope used to be something very few wrestlers did, and when they did go, it was special and breath-taking. Do you feel the same way about when guys go to the top rope now? No, you consider it to be just another move in a wrestling match these days.

That's the Law of Diminishing Returns in action . To simply state it, the Law of Diminishing Returns says the more you do something, the less value you get out of it over time. You can do a Google image search to find a graph which will help make it clear. This is the reason why wrestlers who rely on flips and high spots are poor wrestlers.

After a while, if everyone started to do high spots and flips, would we care about John Morrison anymore? Like I stated earlier, if the WWE had those 7 or 8 guys I mentioned earlier, and let them all do their flips and stuff, would anyone give a damn about John Morrison? Of course not, because he's ONLY over because of his flips. But when you put the Law of Diminishing Returns into play, and people are no longer impressed or mesmerized with his high spots (like what has happened with chair shots and top rope moves), then what does Morrison have to keep people interested? Nothing.

Doing high moves is simply cheap heat, an easy way to pop a crowd, without having to actually do the work necessary to make them care about the match. You can have the worst match ever, do a big spot, and the crowd will cheer. But that's just a cheap pop. Compare that to someone like Hulk Hogan, who would work an entire match to get a story over, who could convince the crowd he was close to losing, and then when the time was right, "hulk up" and get the crowd to go nuts. Would the crowd have gone nuts if they didn't think Hulk was in danger? No, they wouldn't have, so when their hero comes back from the brink of defeat, they go crazy. That's a good pop, one that delivers a crowd reaction based upon the story being told in the ring.

That's what good wrestlers do. Relying on high spots to garner crowd interest is simply a matter of whether your have the athleticism and the desire to put yourself in harm's way. It's not skilled wrestling. As I said before, there's nothing wrong with doing a high spot, if it makes sense within the context of the match, and you've been building toward the spot, but when you rely on the high spot to pop the crowd because you have no ability to make them care otherwise, then it's an obvious indication of a lack of skill.

Spot matches are awesome, deal with it.

You don't understand what a spot is. A spot is any pre-planned moment of a match. For example, the majority of the Savage vs. Steamboat match was planned ahead of time, thus included many many spots. The problem I have is not with the pre-planned moment of the match, but rather with the transition and the build-up to the spot. If you are transitioning well between your spots, building up the storyline as you go, there is nothing wrong with any spot, including a high spot. But if your match is simply random, and you go to a spot, any spot, without building towards it, then it's a lack of pro wrestling ability.

O, and if you routinely pull 25 foot swantons off titantrons, or can pull a dead on Spiderman impression in any given match you don't need to be good on the mic... you need to booked so youre not put in a position to be on the mic. the writers really need to stop being lazy and put these guys in roles they can actually pull off, and quit trying to force shit on them.

From your post, it's clear you don't understand much about pro wrestling, so my advice is to let the writers do the writing, and you do the watching.

 

[Lucid]

My problem with "spot matches" as they seemed to be being called here is not with the athleticism of the workers, but rather "who the workers are".
What I mean to say is, for example, Who is John Morrison? I have no idea. He's a guy who does some falling off of high places and flips and kicks. Alright, but what does any of that mean? To me, it means he's an athletic guy who doesn't have much else in his "bag of tricks" for me to connect with. He has no "character", or "personality". The laid back, rocker guy who does "high risk" stuff is all he is. Overall, he's not very interesting to me.
In comparison (or contrast), The Miz is all "personality" BUT he has a story. And he tells his story to anyone and everyone who will listen. He's learning how to tell that story in the ring as well. Far more compelling "character".

Overall, when it comes to Morrison, it boils down to "hey, when is he gonna do that flip thing?" and with The Miz it boils down to "I wonder what he's gonna do next."

 

[Kharma Bites]

I like the high flying style if its balanced, too much of it and you may as well go watch some lucha instead. sin cara is something special to watch, in terms of what he can do(or not it seems) i just cant connect with him because of that stupid mask. rey has a mask too sure, but you can see his eyes and mouth. wrestling is about body language and facial expressions no matter what style of wrestling you use and with sin cara i cant get any of that. when is he hurt? when is he angry? happy? waving your arms around or lying on the matt does not cut it in terms of selling moves or portraying the story of the match.seriously when the guy wins i dont buy it and if and when he loses i wont buy it.

simple things like this make a huge difference.


what is wrong with spot matches? nothing for me in terms of big high risk moves or big impactfull moves. HHH taker was a good example of the impactfull and a match between say a MCMG and gen me would be a good example of the high flying wow moves. both have their places in wrestling, but at the right times and in the right quantities is the most important part.

 

[The Universal Re-monster]

From your post, it's clear you don't understand much about pro wrestling, so my advice is to let the writers do the writing, and you do the watching.

Having an opinion doen't mean I don't know much about about pro wrestling, it means my thought process is different then yours. That tends to happen in life. So once again, deal with it.

Overall, when it comes to Morrison, it boils down to "hey, when is he gonna do that flip thing?" and with The Miz it boils down to "I wonder what he's gonna do next."

Ok, now that whole post is an explanation I can respect, looking at it from that angle I can definately see where the argument against no charisma guys can come from, and I'm actually inclined to agree.

 

[Chrome]

If you're in a real fight are you going to flip over a table , do a back flip, twist, and apply a spining toe hold on the guy? HELL NO.. you would run up and tackle or punch that dude..

Lets look at ring psychology.. you all say that Hogan and Cena don't have any because they only have 5 moves but its what you do with the moves that makes them great.. but since you are fasinated with moves.. lets turn to another guy.. Bret hart.. I never saw a match where his match didn't tell a story.. he would punch, kick, slam, etc his opponent.. but each time you are interested because his matches told a story and he was able to make both himself and the opponant look good and build an anticipation for the out come. He made anyone look good that wrestled him.. Nash, Hall, Bulldog, etc all had great matches with him.. with the same limited move sets that they all had back then.. and they were ALL stellar.. I can say the same for Kurt Angle.. in truth he doesn't need to be a spot monkey to get a crowd reaction..

If being a spot monkey was all it took to be in wrestling then Teddy Hart would be the World Champ.. doing moves to make yourself look good without telling a story dimienshes the value of the moves...

Hell Jimmy Snuka is known for that ONE spot he took off the cage.. by "TODAYS" fans.. why is that??

Because it was rare and it meant something.. nevermind the fact that he lost the match.

Fact is too much spoting and people will get bored with it.. when you are looking at a movie you don't want the climax in the first 5 minutes.. you want it to build up to something.. GREAT wrestlers know how to do that. There needs to be a sense of realism in all fights, but there has to be a story told to get people to give a damn.

 

[Zigglerfan227]

I think that spot matches are awesome and that high flyers and such are amazing performers. Sure, they have so many spots that not all can be remembered, but for the moment the match entertains us.

It takes a lot of athleticism and skill to do some of that crazy stuff that wrestlers do. Athleticism is great but it also takes skill, dedication, bravery, and the willingness to put your body on the line. John Morrison and Evan Bourne and Rey Mysterio could all hurt themselves very badly if they make a mistake or they can embarrass theirself by screwing up. I respect spot matches, especially those that has a story and a meaning to go with it.

 

[AnvilForever]

If the mid-card titles weren't as ignored as they are now, I would love to have four or five of those high fliers compete for them. Slyfox says that the Law of Diminishing Returns would decrease the novelty of the spots, but I think it would be a great way to pick out the best of those fliers. If we have a pack of HFers in a mid-card title storyline, then those HFers will be tested to come up with something unique, either in character or in the ring, to stand out. Having lots of HFers go against each others forces them to adapt and evolve instead of just relying on the big spot.

When I think of main event HFers, I think of Rey Mysterio and Jeff Hardy in 2008. Before the knee surgeries grounded him, Rey had the "underdog" motif going for him. He was always the smaller guy, and he kept getting beat up in the ring, but he would always find some small window of opportunity and exploit it to make the big spectacular finish. He had big spots, but his character backed him up.

Hardy was never anything special on the mic, but you have to be deaf to not grasp the immense support he got from the fans in 2007 and 2008. Why? Because he could work an entire match the way Slyfox said Hogan could. Watch Jeff's matches with Umaga, particularly his Steel Cage match. In that match, Jeff was getting constantly beaten up by Umaga, but Jeff would fight back with these lightning fast counter moves that kept the audience rooting for him. Finally, at the very end, Jeff went for the big spot with the whisper in the wind off the cage, and at that point won the crowd over for good. There was no questioning who the fans wanted as WWE champion from that point on. Jeff couldn't tell a story on the mic, but he could definitely tell a story in the ring, and that's why he got so over.

...and the fact that Jeff Hardy had that skill is the reason why his fall from grace is so tragic. He could have been that rare high-flier that became a perennial main-eventer, but when the opportunity came, he refused to answer the call.

 

[Trill Co$by]

There's nothing wrong with spots... in moderation.

See, in the old days, a spot was a series of moves to get a reaction from the crowd and after that reaction, you call the moves in the ring... or if you've got HBK/Bret Hart chemistry, you just go with the movement of your body. Oh don't let their past heat fool you, Bret and HBK had a LOT of in ring chemistry.

My problem with spot monkeys is that they just don't understand the point in a spot. They just go out to the ring, run a spot, no-sell the spot, and go right into another spot. Why? Why not sell the moves and continue a story? Every match can be a five star match if people could just tell a story.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Straight Line Stitch on this. I generally don't have a problem with high spots if they're used in moderation. Spot matches can have their place on a card but I generally tune out when a match consists of little more than one high spot after another. Wrestling has always been more than just two guys "fighting". There's always supposed to be some degree of a story at the center of everything. Spot fests generally don't have that. For the most part, spot fests put me in mind of a high octane action movie that has no plot and no relevant characters.

What some people refer to as the "WWE style" works in my view because it has things in moderation. For instance, back in WCW, Rey Mysterio was the definition of a spot monkey. Practically everything he was doing in during that time involved one big flashy spot after another. I loved his matches with Dean Malenko because it was a great mesh of styles. Mysterio had the flash while Malenko had the psychology and storytelling aspect of the match. In the WWE, Mysterio still has some flashy moves but the spots have been heavily cut back. That's due in part to Mysterio's body breaking down during the years of wear & tear but it's also because high spots seem special if they're not done all the time. Mysterio has incorporated much more storytelling and general selling in his matches in WWE and, because of that, he's taken much more seriously as a wrestler.

When I think of a spot monkey in general, I think of a wrestler that has a lot of athletic ability but not much of anything else. There's a lot of flash going on but there's virtually no substance to the guy, no real charisma, little to no use of in-ring psychology, etc. Pro wrestling is full of great athletes and it generally takes more than moving into one big spot after another with no storytelling, no selling of the spot, etc. for me to take a wrestler seriously.

 

[Rayne]

Slyfox is right here, folks.

If you're a fan of spot matches- and I'm not going to criticize them as "not real professional wrestling" or anything, people enjoy what they enjoy- look up local promotions in your area, and go to one of their shows. It'll usually run you around $10. There, you'll see guys doing all the acrobatic moves you'll see in the WWE, TNA, and more than that. These independent wrestlers perform some absolutely crazy stunts because that's what they NEED to do to get noticed. One thing you will see very little of in small, local promotions are engaging characters able to get genuine audience response. THAT'S the top skill of a professional wrestler. All it takes to do professional wrestling acrobatics is some agility and a lack of concern for your physical well-being.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Spot matches are awesome for the first two minutes. Then I'm completely desensitized. Suddenly, a guy doing a double backflip and landing on the other guy isn't as amazing. Plus, spot matches tend to be fast-pased, so I get sucked out of the match when I see people getting up 15 seconds after getting triple 720 backfrontbackfrontflipped onto when that would be a huge selling point during any other kind of match.

Spot matches should generally be reserved for PPV gimmick matches, like a TLC, or MITB match.

 

[3/4 Facelock]

What the fuck is a spot monkey? Is it the character that is wrestling or is it the guy who is playing the character that is wrestling? Me thinks you forgot to look at the differences between spot monkey and high flyer. They are not the same.

Spot monkey is what I guess you would see at indy shows. High flyers are what you see on television. They do not do risky moves as often as indy wrestlers and they "fly" around because they are smaller and lighter than other more basic looking wrestlers.

It seems like the hillbilly infection caught on in this forum and many of you dolts forgot to seperate kayfabe and reality and.

Yes you fucking did. All of you. Well...almost all of you, but it's close enough to round up to all of you. So yeah, all of you did.

John Morrison can't wrestle and he's a spot monkey? Oh, that's not what you said? John Morrison doesn't have much in his repertoire? Is that better or more accurate? Sin Cara and Mysterio are the same way?

Hmmm. It seems to me that you think these wrestlers just pop out of the ground at WWE Headquarters and then they are on RAW or SD. You think that because you are stupid and watch wrestling incorrectly. But that's ok. No one can tell you how to watch.

John Morrison for example who was on Tough Enough and then went to OVW got all the way to the main event scene by spotting on everything? Very interesting since a lot of his moves remind me of a young Shawn Micheals. Who by your definition is/was a spot monkey.

These spot monkeys are always smaller guys who have to go up against bigger guys. So...say it with me...they need harder more impactful moves to even the odds. Hence dropping off the 2nd and 3rd rope for leverage. it doesn't make them "spot monkeys" because it is well within their characters persona to do these moves.

High flyers. Repeat it until you understand it.

Please for the love of god retire the phrase "spot monkey". I read all of these 23 posts and many of you simply don't know what the fuck you are talking about at all.

And to the OP, there is absolutly nothing wrong with being entertained by high flying wrestlers. The ones that turn their nose up at it are just being dicksnorters who think they belong to some sort of club where they know wrestling.

They don't.

 

[Slack]

Most of the indy wrestlers I have seen around here are more mat based wrestlers and not spot monkeys.

To me a spot monkey is wrestler who gets no reaction whatsoever until he pulls out a high flying spot. Best example I can currently think of is Sin Cara. Yeah I'll say it, if it wasn't for all of his high flying stuff, he'd be the masked evan bourne. A wrestler that the majority of folks don't give a shit about. I also consider Sabu to be a spot monkey. A spot monkey is a guy who at least half of their wrestling arsenal is a high flying spot, where as a high flyer is a guy who will do high risk moves, but won't do them all the time.