WCW Boston, Round 3, Match 2: #5. Chris Benoit vs. #12. Kevin Nash
- Thread starter Shocky
- Start date
Man… this is one of the hardest votes so far in this tournament for me.
These are two of my favorite wrestlers of all time. I was the absolute biggest Diesel mark back in the day, and Chris Benoit was one of the greatest workers I’ve ever seen. This would have undoubtedly been a great match were these two have met in their primes.
In a kayfabe match, I see Diesel wiping the floor with Benoit, but of course work-rise wise… Benoit was a lot better. Diesel has the charisma and promo ability though and could work a match himself, but Benoit’s in-ring ability is right behind Bret Hart as far as I’m concerned.
At the end of the day, however, unless someone can sway me the other way, my vote for now is going to Big Daddy Cool. There’s just too much of a nostalgic factor there for me, and plus… when you compare every category... Diesel comes out on top by a wide margin.
These are two of my favorite wrestlers of all time. I was the absolute biggest Diesel mark back in the day, and Chris Benoit was one of the greatest workers I’ve ever seen. This would have undoubtedly been a great match were these two have met in their primes.
In a kayfabe match, I see Diesel wiping the floor with Benoit, but of course work-rise wise… Benoit was a lot better. Diesel has the charisma and promo ability though and could work a match himself, but Benoit’s in-ring ability is right behind Bret Hart as far as I’m concerned.
At the end of the day, however, unless someone can sway me the other way, my vote for now is going to Big Daddy Cool. There’s just too much of a nostalgic factor there for me, and plus… when you compare every category... Diesel comes out on top by a wide margin.
Kevin Nash is beyond terrible these days, but once upon a time there was something there. The reason Benoit left WCW is because there were guys like Nash who were always above him. Benoit did manage to win the world title in the end, but he never really reached the level of importance within a company that Nash has done in two, arguably three.
Nash is just too big and powerful for Benoit to be able to dispatch, and I think that the murderer goes home here.
Nash is just too big and powerful for Benoit to be able to dispatch, and I think that the murderer goes home here.
It's...Baylariat!
Team Finnley Baylor
Benoit can't get Nash in the crossface...well, as good as he would want to, anyway. Nash is very dangerous when he's upright. If he keeps a vertical base, Benoit would need a piece of his weightlifting equipment to take Big Daddy Sexy down.
I take Nash in this one, and it's close, but not as close as it seems.
I take Nash in this one, and it's close, but not as close as it seems.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
I'm not sure here. If Benoit can get Nash off his feet, Nash is a dead man. If this turns into a fight, it's close. People forget Benoit's brawling capabilities. This guy was tough. Also, I could see Benoit countering the powerbomb into some kind of submission. Neither guy is likely to make a mistake, but I think in the end, there's just too much Nash for Benoit to break down like he usually does. Also, this is in WCW. Nash was a big deal there while Benoit was held down until literally his last night in the company. Have to go with Nash, which I hate doing.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
Looks like I'm in the minority here so far. Nash is a perfect example of why WCW went under. Nash is an overrated, poorly skilled in-ring competitor that was a master of backstage politics. That's always been his key to success in WCW. In the ring, Nash was shit. He was slow as Hell, it seemed as though he could barely move at times, couldn't draw a dime as WWF Champion, most of his reigns as WCW Champion were complete fiascos that helped obliterate the WCW Championship of any credibility and prestige.
Benoit was a guy that let his actions do his speaking for him. He could brawl, he was a high flyer, he was great on the mat and he was also pretty damn powerful when you get right down to it. Benoit could take Nash apart piece by piece, all he'd have to do is pick one of any number of weak points on Nash whether it be his shoulders, one of his elbows, either one of his knees are prime targets. This could be one of Nash's better matches, but only because Benoit would carry him the whole way through. I doubt Benoit will make it through this round, but it won't be because I didn't vote for him. I can always hope, but sounds like Nash may have done a little politicking already.
Benoit was a guy that let his actions do his speaking for him. He could brawl, he was a high flyer, he was great on the mat and he was also pretty damn powerful when you get right down to it. Benoit could take Nash apart piece by piece, all he'd have to do is pick one of any number of weak points on Nash whether it be his shoulders, one of his elbows, either one of his knees are prime targets. This could be one of Nash's better matches, but only because Benoit would carry him the whole way through. I doubt Benoit will make it through this round, but it won't be because I didn't vote for him. I can always hope, but sounds like Nash may have done a little politicking already.
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
People are forgetting that Benoit HAS and is perfectly capable of taking out guys that are bigger than him, he beat a 500lbs. 7ft. Big Show with the crossface
[youtube]iNeWW9nFE8w[/youtube]
... and he won the WCW title after beating a 6' 8 320 lbs. Sycho Sid, after locking in the crossface, so anyone saying he wouldn't be able to lock in the crossface on someone Nash's size is wrong
[youtube]8YLI1zmKFaY[/youtube]
Benoit would cripple Nash, and walk into the next round after a hard fought battle here
[youtube]iNeWW9nFE8w[/youtube]
... and he won the WCW title after beating a 6' 8 320 lbs. Sycho Sid, after locking in the crossface, so anyone saying he wouldn't be able to lock in the crossface on someone Nash's size is wrong
[youtube]8YLI1zmKFaY[/youtube]
Benoit would cripple Nash, and walk into the next round after a hard fought battle here
Captain America
Pre-Show Stalwart
On the December 6, 1999 edition of Nitro Chris Benoit defeated Kevin Nash in a match. http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/profiles/k/kevin-nash.php
It's for this reason along with the fact that Chris was a much better technical wrestler that he'll get my vote.
It's for this reason along with the fact that Chris was a much better technical wrestler that he'll get my vote.
It's...Baylariat!
Team Finnley Baylor
Let's not forget this, either...
[youtube]AsNvDq6FNYk[/youtube]
I still go with Nash, though.
[youtube]AsNvDq6FNYk[/youtube]
I still go with Nash, though.
Ty Burna
Getting Noticed By Management
You have no idea how much I marked out when I was younger watching that as a HUGE Rey Mysterio fan.
Anyway, to the match at hand, this is a tough contest really, but what it boils down to is the technical prowess of Benoit vs. the brute strength of Kevin Nash. Now to me, I have to go with Benoit's technical abilities here. He's got the tools necessary to knock Nash down to size and pound him until he's ready for the flying headbutt and Crippler Crossface. But this is very close, I'm not saying Benoit would win in a rout, but I'd probably say he win after a strong 20 minute match that includes multiple false finishes, a couple of counters out of the Jack Knife Powerbomb, and a couple of overpowering out of the Crippler Crossface.
The only problem I see for Nash is adjusting his style to a vanilla midget opponent.
I think people are forgetting who he went over during his title reign, surely his prime. Not being particularly memorable or even very good shouldn't come into play.
Shit, help or not, he was the first person to pin Goldberg and he Power Bombed Giant.
I think people are forgetting who he went over during his title reign, surely his prime. Not being particularly memorable or even very good shouldn't come into play.
Shit, help or not, he was the first person to pin Goldberg and he Power Bombed Giant.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
Nobody's forgetting, it's just an example of politics. It was Nash's key to success but it won't do him any good in the environment of the tourney. It's all down to his capabilities in the ring and, as you mentioned yourself, the guy was shit in the ring.
As for power bombing the Giant, I wouldn't call it a power bomb exactly, it was almost a piledriver. That wasn't one of Nash's finest moments since he didn't have nearly the strength to get a guy like Paul Wight in a power bomb to begin with. As I recall, he broke the guy's neck. Any reasonably skilled worker, anybody that had a clue as to what they were doing wouldn't have tried something so reckless. It ranks right up there with Sid's botched power bomb on Brian Pillman, maybe even worse since Nash could've killed Wight. He could've killed him even by rolling him over to make the pin. Wight was lucky. I wouldn't call Nash nearly ending someone's career because he was both clumsy and unconcerned with the well being of the other guy's safety one of his brightest moments.
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
I assume you're referring to this
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but I think Jake was talking about this
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Not that it matters Nash isn't stepping in the ring with a 500 lbs. Giant, he's stepping ino the ring with a ring technician, Benoit could easily counter out of the power bomb and somehow turn it into a Crossface
Nash was better. Sombody said nash couldn't draw? I'm pretty sure nwo wolfpac was nash's idea and that drew pretty well. Fans liked benoit for his few moves suplex, head butt, crossface, other than that his interviews sucked, time with title short, and don't remember him doing anything significant besides wm. Nash all the way.
TheOneBigWill
[This Space for Rent]
A lot of people aren't giving Kevin Nash the amount of credit he does indeed deserve. Nash has defeated technical wrestlers far greater than Chris Benoit; such as Bret Hart. Nash has all the power available to easily finish Benoit off with only the simpliest of moves.
This is a match-up, that with both in their prime I'd have loved to see. I'm a big Nash fan, and an even bigger Benoit fan. I just want people to give Nash his just due for credit and respect. Just because he's tall, doesn't mean he's incapable of having a great match with a technical wrestler.
Benoit does indeed have the shear ability to lock in the Crossface from almost any position, including finding a way to slide out of the Powerbomb in mid-air, or reverse the flip and somehow come down with a crossface variation.
The problem that Benoit will encounter here, is using too much aggression, and trying to give everything all at once, early and often.. it'll wear him down, and Nash can absorb the punishment, and come back with second winds that'll tear Benoit apart.
At this time, I'm torn on who to vote for. As I said, I'm a big fan of both, and haven't truly seen one argument over another to lean in either man's favor. People claiming Nash would lose because he's tall and awkward are wrong. People claiming Benoit would lose because he couldn't lock in the Crossface, are wrong. And even if that were the case, Benoit can lock in a Sharpshooter just as easy.
Again, I'm torn on who could win in the end at this time. I'm leaning toward Benoit, just for the future possible match-ups, though.
This is a match-up, that with both in their prime I'd have loved to see. I'm a big Nash fan, and an even bigger Benoit fan. I just want people to give Nash his just due for credit and respect. Just because he's tall, doesn't mean he's incapable of having a great match with a technical wrestler.
[youtube]jpXlBaKjBQI[/youtube]
[youtube]4OYrCbsJoMw&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]LLiYtP_kw2k&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]2MiiTAnoM8g&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]4OYrCbsJoMw&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]LLiYtP_kw2k&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]2MiiTAnoM8g&feature=related[/youtube]
Benoit does indeed have the shear ability to lock in the Crossface from almost any position, including finding a way to slide out of the Powerbomb in mid-air, or reverse the flip and somehow come down with a crossface variation.
The problem that Benoit will encounter here, is using too much aggression, and trying to give everything all at once, early and often.. it'll wear him down, and Nash can absorb the punishment, and come back with second winds that'll tear Benoit apart.
At this time, I'm torn on who to vote for. As I said, I'm a big fan of both, and haven't truly seen one argument over another to lean in either man's favor. People claiming Nash would lose because he's tall and awkward are wrong. People claiming Benoit would lose because he couldn't lock in the Crossface, are wrong. And even if that were the case, Benoit can lock in a Sharpshooter just as easy.
Again, I'm torn on who could win in the end at this time. I'm leaning toward Benoit, just for the future possible match-ups, though.
SavageTaker
Everybody Has A Price!
I was actually a pretty Big Fan of Nash but that is not why I am voting for him.
Like will mentioned, Nash was able to defeat a better technical wrestler in Bret Hart, so why shouldn't he be able to defeat Benoit either. Also in WCW Kevin Nash was a main player on why the tide change to WCW's favor during the Monday Night Wars.
I think that Kevin Nash isn't given enough credit for what he has accomplished but to say that he was shit and used politics backstage to stay on top is not necessary because if I may remind you this tournament is supposed to be treated as Kayfabe.
But In the end I will vote for Nash but Benoit will give him a hard fought battle, and there's always a possibility that he will lock on the Crippler Crossface, if he could get Henry's ass down, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to get Nash down, he might have a little bit more trouble because Nash is taller but you never say never.
In closing, I ask people to please not vote for Benoit because of his actions in the last week of his life, but instead don't vote for him because you truly believe Nash can defeat him.
I could make some jokes about what Benoit did, but I won't because i don't want to come off as an asshole or a jerk (which I am not either of those) but some people might find them tasteless and disrespectful.
Like will mentioned, Nash was able to defeat a better technical wrestler in Bret Hart, so why shouldn't he be able to defeat Benoit either. Also in WCW Kevin Nash was a main player on why the tide change to WCW's favor during the Monday Night Wars.
I think that Kevin Nash isn't given enough credit for what he has accomplished but to say that he was shit and used politics backstage to stay on top is not necessary because if I may remind you this tournament is supposed to be treated as Kayfabe.
But In the end I will vote for Nash but Benoit will give him a hard fought battle, and there's always a possibility that he will lock on the Crippler Crossface, if he could get Henry's ass down, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to get Nash down, he might have a little bit more trouble because Nash is taller but you never say never.
In closing, I ask people to please not vote for Benoit because of his actions in the last week of his life, but instead don't vote for him because you truly believe Nash can defeat him.
I could make some jokes about what Benoit did, but I won't because i don't want to come off as an asshole or a jerk (which I am not either of those) but some people might find them tasteless and disrespectful.
It seems everyone is severly underestimating Mr. Benoit.
Ok first I'll make my point about Nash. When he was against a underdog, he rarely seemed to win. He lost against Rey Mysterio and a jobber Chris Jericho when he was in his prime in WCW. And how can you use the Nash vs Hart example as an arguement? Am I the only one who saw Bret being thrown into an exposed turnbuckle by Owen? If Owen hadn't interfered, Diesel would've been beaten. And we all know that Benoit can do the sharpshooter.
Also, Benoit has a history of taking out big guys. He eliminated the Big Show from the Royal Rumble when they were the only 2 left. He beat Kane clean in their world title match. Big Show is bigger and stronger than Diesel yet Benoit used his wrestling ability to get the best of him. Kane is as big as Diesel and possibly even stronger.
And Benoit is one resilient bastard. He managed to kick out of the F-5, which looks a lot more painful than a jacknife in terms of velocity and impact. And the F-5 has put down as many great wrestlers as the Jacknife
So what if Diesel can power out of the crossface? Kane powered out of the cross face. Their whole world title match was built around it. Benoit still pinned Kane. Pinned him.
I know I'm gonna get a lot of shit for this post, but I think Benoit needs some supporters.
Ok first I'll make my point about Nash. When he was against a underdog, he rarely seemed to win. He lost against Rey Mysterio and a jobber Chris Jericho when he was in his prime in WCW. And how can you use the Nash vs Hart example as an arguement? Am I the only one who saw Bret being thrown into an exposed turnbuckle by Owen? If Owen hadn't interfered, Diesel would've been beaten. And we all know that Benoit can do the sharpshooter.
Also, Benoit has a history of taking out big guys. He eliminated the Big Show from the Royal Rumble when they were the only 2 left. He beat Kane clean in their world title match. Big Show is bigger and stronger than Diesel yet Benoit used his wrestling ability to get the best of him. Kane is as big as Diesel and possibly even stronger.
And Benoit is one resilient bastard. He managed to kick out of the F-5, which looks a lot more painful than a jacknife in terms of velocity and impact. And the F-5 has put down as many great wrestlers as the Jacknife
So what if Diesel can power out of the crossface? Kane powered out of the cross face. Their whole world title match was built around it. Benoit still pinned Kane. Pinned him.
I know I'm gonna get a lot of shit for this post, but I think Benoit needs some supporters.
I have a ton of respect for Nash, but I'm voting for Benoit. This will be one hell of a fight, but eventually, Nash will go for the Jackknife, and Benoit will reverse it into a DDT, and turn it into a wrestling match. While Nash can hold his own, he's not in Benoit's league. Once he's on the mat, and Benoit has the advantage, it's over. I don't know about ending it with the crossface, but Benoit has other submission moves to use here.
Gotta go with Benoit. Nash always had trouble with small, quick, skilled wrestlers (Mysterio, HBK, Bret Hart), at least ones that were being pushed. On the other hand, Benoit always seemed to do well against larger foes. Not to mention Nash's long history with knee and elbow injuries, which would certainly be a target for The Crippler.
Oh My god, I voted for Kevin Nash. I love Chris Benoit, was there when he won his first world title against Sid at Souled Out in 2000 and marked out like a little school girl. I marked out again when he won the title at Wrestlemania 20 and had his WM moment. That being said, I'm not sure he can get Nash down. Nash is a big powerful fucking beast of a man, and so damn long and powerful that I simply can't see the Crossface keeping him down. Take into account that this is a WCW ring, a smaller ring I believe 18x18, put into effect Nashes reach of probably near 10 feet, and the guy is near a ring rope almost any time he is on the ground.
Nash from 1996, WWF and WCW was simply a mean bastard. I remember being somewhat scared of the guy when he was going around telling guy sin the WWF he was going to kill him. I love Benoit, but I think he's outmatched here.
Nash from 1996, WWF and WCW was simply a mean bastard. I remember being somewhat scared of the guy when he was going around telling guy sin the WWF he was going to kill him. I love Benoit, but I think he's outmatched here.
I find both soul-crushingly boring. I would pay to see neither of them. You know, if I had a choice. I don't... hypothetically. Sheesh, don't be so damn difficult.
For all the valid arguments there are... lost my train of thought. I just got confused amongst all the valid arguments and so did the unthinkable; I decided who to vote for by myself. I think Benoit's wiliness (as in Wile. E. Coyote), and strategic...ness negate whatever Nash has got in the bag. Nash goes for the power moves, but Benoit is a clingy bastard and ends up dragging him to the mat, kicking and screaming.
No, it doesn't make sense to me either.
For all the valid arguments there are... lost my train of thought. I just got confused amongst all the valid arguments and so did the unthinkable; I decided who to vote for by myself. I think Benoit's wiliness (as in Wile. E. Coyote), and strategic...ness negate whatever Nash has got in the bag. Nash goes for the power moves, but Benoit is a clingy bastard and ends up dragging him to the mat, kicking and screaming.
No, it doesn't make sense to me either.
tehblogger
The Young God, walking abroad
Nash is too big and slow. I'll pick a strong technical expert like Benoit over an overrated bruiser like Nash any day of the week. Benoit will find some way to get Nash done, counter the powerbomb, and lock in the Crossface, and I'm sorry, but once that's in, Nash is not getting out of it. Fair point made above around the ring size, and the Crossface might not win first time around, but it will eventually. One of those moves where the more you struggle to get to the ropes, the more it hurts.