Vince Russo Dragging TNA Down?

[FoleyIsGod]

I don't think long storylines are nessecerily bad but they have to be good AND they have to be simple so that a new viewer can easily get into them and understand them. I wouldn't mind if Scott feuded some more with Joe for example, but it has to be simple.

Take Stone Cold vs McMahon, that storyline dragged on FOREVER! And that storyline basicly made WWE beat WCW. And it was an easy story, Stone Cold had problems with his evil boss and kicked his ass.

TNA can't continue to have story lines where someones mom had a sex operation and a wrestler crashed his car into her car and now her/his wrestler son wants money from the other guy to pay for the car while having his dad/mom in drag managing him for a qualifying match where they have to wrestle while being in wheelchairs and blindfolded for the main event at next PPV where it will be a "Blindfolded wheelchair extreme get the pole match"

The SC vs Mcmahon fued went on for so long becuase it was so damn popular. Every man and his dog wanted to kick the shit out of thier boss, wether the fact he was a smary arse, on better wages, or a sleazeball like Vince. It was everybodys dream fantasy, something that hadnt been seen before.

Now when it is done, howver, will never live up to that fued, so it doesnt get over as well

 

[Audioslave]

B) I was a huge fan of WCW in 1997-2001 good and bad storylines and not. This argument isn't about what I like it's about what draws ratings or what everybody likes. You named some very good storylines that I remember but you have to get it through you mind (will happen rather quick with nothing in the way) and understand that was more than 11 years ago. The business was revolutionized since then. What drew ratings then doesn't draw ratings now. If your suggesting that TNA do what WCW did in 1998 I am for it, but many casual fans like the Soap Opera, so they likely won't be for it.

Those storylines, and others I could list, were examples of good, deep storytelling without the need to make things goofy or do stupid, illogical swerves.

Good writing, good storytelling, good character depth would draw ratings. If they had a good top tier storyline between their stars where they minimized the stupid shit (zomg Karen/Kurt zaniness) in it and booked to a guy's strengths.. they'd draw. Soap Opera stuff doesn't need to mean "oh my god lots of goofy, stupid bullshit". If that type of shit drew in any genre of television Passions would've had the #1 best ratings in daytime soaps rather than being kicked off the air.

C) Russo doesn't know how to add depth to character without a filter? What is wrong with a filter? How do you know Russo doesn't have some sort of filter? However you do not know any of this because you are only as smart as TNA allows you to be. Remember Petey Williams, Sonjay Dutt, AJ Styles, James Storm, Robert Roode and so many others before Russo got ahold of them, they had no depth.

They still don't. Petey Williams is "Maple Leaf Muscle", Sonjay Dutt is a "guru", James Storm is a drunk, etc. Most of those are not characters, they're gimmicks to give the impression of some uniqueness and cover up the fact that the performers have no personality.

Brian Pillman, as the Loose Cannon, was a character who got developed over time.

Sonjay Dutt, as the "guru", is a gimmick. TL Hopper as a plumber.. is a gimmick. Petey Williams becoming mini Steiner as Maple Leaf Muscle is a gimmick. AJ, the "prince" is a gimmick. The Goon, as a hockey player, was a gimmick.

Russo doesn't have the writing talent or creative insight to make any sort of actual compelling characters.

None of those is going to be able to carry these people long term or help TNA draw in a larger viewership.

D) This WCW route has me interested. Tell me how you would take TNA in that direction?

It's basically something I wish all of wrestling would do. It's a "not everything has to be cramped into the show, give everyone some time to breathe and give us a break from certain guys for one stinkin' week." method of television. And combine that with, at least as close as you can get to, realistic, edgy characters as well.

The Office, for example, is pretty awesome at this. They have their top guys (Jim, Pam, Dwight and Michael) and they have their supporting characters. They've managed to take the supporting cast and flesh most of them out into pretty deep characters. Creed, Kevin, etc. They're not always featured on the show and if they get on, they're shown briefly. Prison Break is another one like this too. They have their main players (Michael, Lincoln) doing stuff in their main story (The Brothers versus The Company) and they still give their supporting players (T-Bag, Mahone, etc) a lot of development and face time. And those guys aren't on every week either.

Wrestling's very similar, but different in that if you do it right (or pick the right guys) you can build those supporting cast guys (for example, an Alex Shelley, Ron Killings, Kaz, Daniels) into a bigger player on the show. Eddie, Rey, Benoit, Booker, etc. They all made careers off of their mid and lower card stuff grasping viewers in and entertaining them, while developing their characters. Eddie's character, in particular, was developed for years and years. He would not have been pushed in WWE if it weren't for his successful programs on the undercard.

E) Benoit murdered his family by choking them to death. How is Kurt who yells at his wife and who attacks someones son any reflection of the Benoit thing. TNA needs action and violence. This heated up the feud which is what it was supposed to do.

Chris is a wrestler.
Nancy is his wife.
Daniel was his son.

Kurt's a wrestler.
Karen's his wife.
His daughter is his daughter.

Chris murdered his wife and kid.

Kurt is abusive/mean to his wife and kid.

Do you not see why that would be in very, very poor taste after what had happened? Especially when the topic of domestic abuse and violence was brought up around that time too? I mean, sure.. wrestling needs it's villains.. but this was really stupid timing.

And what the fuck is with Russo and having guys abuse women? I mean. He wrote the storylines about Jarrett, and thus made Jeff's career off of, beating up women and treating them like shit. Then there's Robert Roode, Kurt Angle. I'm sure there's others that I'm forgetting, but God damn.

 

[gg inferno]

slave, you've got to stop comparing pro wrestling to emmy award winning shows. that's just a stupid argument. i don't think anybody on the planet thinks that vince russo, brian gerwitz, paul heyman, or any one writing wrestling would be up for the job as head writer of the office, 24, or any other emmy award winner. shows like the office have the luxury of writing their shows months in advance and doing repeated takes to film the show. wrestling is written on the fly, where you have two weeks in between shows that are filmed live to tape. they're two completely different animals, and the actors on the network shows are alot better than the wrestlers. wrestling could be simple, like you like it, one guy's mad at another guy and they fight, but since that's been done for something like 60 years, the audience would know what's going to happen and the show would be too predictable, which has been proven to drive fans away in droves in the past.
and as for your argument about guys having gimmicks, would you rather them just be regular smaller than life people, or have a character which separates them from the average joe in the crowd?
and as for the beating up women, you can blame ecw for making that acceptable in today's wrestling business.

 

[psykohurricane]

slave, you've got to stop comparing pro wrestling to emmy award winning shows. that's just a stupid argument. i don't think anybody on the planet thinks that vince russo, brian gerwitz, paul heyman, or any one writing wrestling would be up for the job as head writer of the office, 24, or any other emmy award winner. shows like the office have the luxury of writing their shows months in advance and doing repeated takes to film the show. wrestling is written on the fly, where you have two weeks in between shows that are filmed live to tape. they're two completely different animals, and the actors on the network shows are alot better than the wrestlers. wrestling could be simple, like you like it, one guy's mad at another guy and they fight, but since that's been done for something like 60 years, the audience would know what's going to happen and the show would be too predictable, which has been proven to drive fans away in droves in the past.

Give me a break, like what TNA is doing rightnow isn't driving fans away. TNA's ratings hasn't go up in month sure they a little increase at the beginning of the year but then it stay the same, the only time TNA was able to get new fans was because of the storyline between Angle and Samoa Joe for Their match at lockdown. People were interested in seeing that match because it was and easy story to understand. You had angle you would have done anything to keep the title vs Joe who would have done anything to win it. Everything during that angle was wasy to understand and in the end you didn'T mind paying 30$ to see the end result. Now TNA is back doing storyline
that doesn'T make sense or that come out of nowhere like Booker t's heel turn.
Also what is it with all these complicated gimmick matches on PPV. Am all for having a gimmick match on PPV if the match got a purpose but what'S the point of doing matches like the King of the mountain matches. It's such a complicated match to understand and the last part is so stupid that most fans just don't cared watching it. Some of the other gimmick match the i think are stupid are match like the reverse battle royal or anything having to do with wrestlers trying to get into the ring before actually having the second part of the match inside.

Basicly what i'm saying is that the TNA booking comitee should take a moment watch what's going on right now in the world of sports entertainment. Then decide who do you want to be feature in TNA and build story's around them and all the other guys that you don'T want to use, don't put them you Impact, used them on Xplosion. The best way to attract new viewers is to give them something that going to make them want to watch your show next week. Then if they like your show then they might want to buy your PPV to see how the whole thing is going to end because the point of having a show is to promote the PPV so that the company can make money, if nobody watch that show because they don't understand or just plain don'T care about what happening, they won'T buy the PPV and the company won'T make money. Am being a supporter of TNA for since it'S started and am one of the rare one that still buy every ppv the company make even if i don'T cared about what'S going on most of the time but at some point, if things don't change, TNA might lose some of their fateful fans and when that will happen, they will kick themselves for not doing what the fans wanted in the first place and that'S is a alternative to the WWE which at this time they are not.

 

[MisterRob]

2005
Date Rating
October 4, 2005 0.8
October 11, 2005 0.8
October 18, 2005 0.8
October 25, 2005 0.9
November 3, 2005 0.9
November 12, 2005 0.8
November 19, 2005 0.6
November 26, 2005 0.8
December 4, 2005 0.8
December 8, 2005 0.8
December 17, 2005 0.7
December 24, 2005 0.9
December 31, 2005 0.8

2006
Date Rating
January 7, 2006 0.9
January 14, 2006 0.8
January 21, 2006 0.9
January 28, 2006 1.1
February 4, 2006 0.7
February 11, 2006 0.8
February 18, 2006 0.7
February 25, 2006 0.9
March 4, 2006 0.7
March 11, 2006 0.7
March 18, 2006 0.9
March 25, 2006 0.9
April 1, 2006 0.6
April 8, 2006 1.0
April 13, 2006 1.1
April 20, 2006 0.9
April 27, 2006 0.8
May 4, 2006 0.9
May 11, 2006 1.0
May 18, 2006 1.1
May 25, 2006 1.2
June 1, 2006 1.1
June 8, 2006 1.0
June 15, 2006 0.8
June 22, 2006 1.1
June 29, 2006 1.1
July 6, 2006 1.0
July 13, 2006 0.9
July 20, 2006 0.8
July 27, 2006 0.8
August 2, 2006 0.8
August 9, 2006 ?.?
August 16, 2006 ?.?
August 23, 2006 0.8
August 30, 2006 0.8
September 7, 2006 0.7
September 14, 2006 0.7
September 21, 2006 ?.?
September 28, 2006 0.88
October 5, 2006 0.8
October 12, 2006 0.9
October 19, 2006 0.8
October 26, 2006 0.8
November 2, 2006 0.8
November 9, 2006 ?.?
November 16, 2006 1.0
November 23, 2006 0.9
November 30, 2006 1.0
December 7, 2006 1.0
December 14, 2006 1.2
December 21, 2006 1.1
December 28, 2006 0.9

After:

2007
Date Rating
January 4, 2007 1.1
January 11, 2007 1.1
January 18, 2007 1.1
January 24, 2007 0.8
January 31, 2007 1.0
February 8, 2007 1.1
February 15, 2007 0.6
February 22, 2007 1.0
March 1, 2007 1.1
March 8, 2007 1.0
March 15, 2007 1.1
March 22, 2007 1.0
March 29, 2007 1.0
April 5, 2007 0.9
April 12, 2007 1.1
April 19, 2007 1.1
April 26, 2007 1.0
May 3, 2007 1.0
May 10, 2007 1.0
May 17, 2007 1.0
May 24, 2007 1.0
May 31, 2007 0.9
June 7, 2007 ?.?
June 14, 2007 1.1
June 21, 2007 1.2
June 28, 2007 1.2
July 5, 2007 1.1
July 12, 2007 1.0
July 19, 2007 1.2
July 26, 2007 1.1
August 2, 2007 1.1
August 9, 2007 1.0
August 16, 2007 1.1
August 23, 2007 1.1
August 30, 2007 1.1
September 6, 2007 1.2
September 13, 2007 1.1
September 20, 2007 1.1
September 27, 2007 0.9
October 4, 2007 1.1
October 11, 2007 1.1
October 18, 2007 1.0
October 25, 2007 1.0
November 1, 2007 1.3
November 8, 2007 1.1
November 15, 2007 1.1
November 22, 2007 1.0
November 29, 2007 1.1
December 6, 2007 1.1
December 13, 2007 1.2
December 20, 2007 ?.?
December 27, 2007 1.1
March 6, 2008 1.2

2008
Date Rating
January 3, 2008 1.1
January 10, 2008 1.1
January 17, 2008 1.2
January 24, 2008 1.2
January 31, 2008 1.2
February 7, 2008 1.1
February 14, 2008 1.1
February 21, 2008 1.1
February 28, 2008 1.1
March 6, 2008 1.2
March 13, 2008 1.1
March 20, 2008 1.0
March 27, 2008 1.0
April 3, 2008 1.1
April 10, 2008 1.0

Wow, look at that huge increase! In two years, with a whole second hour, they're basically doing the same numbers as they were back in late 2006. If that's what you call progress you're unbelievably naive. They can't even compete with ECW. Has anyone WATCHED ECW? They're getting the same numbers as the Originally ECW on TNN who had no advertising help and no promotional help for their product. If you're actually saying TNA is going in the right direction you're once again, naive.

And Black Machismo, Shark Boy, and Curry Man are proof that TNA is booking for the long term success of the company! TNA's problem is they book for the short term, trying to boost the product up one or two points, worried entirely about ratings (just like WCW was) instead of focusing on making their product better for long term benefits. I doubt the financial backing behind TNA is going to keep tossing money away at a loss for another two or three years when the ratings remain at low 1.0's. Good luck with that.

I also see you just "happened" by coincidence to leave out the most recent TV rating of Impact. The last two weeks in May it's done a 0.9. You can use whatever excuses you want for that, such as claiming the low ratings on the time of year, but what did Impact do back in the may of 2006 before Russo was hired? Oh, I believe they did a 1.1 and 1.2.. there's that "up swing" people keep mentioning!

 

[Talon_DR]

-First of all you measure weekly ratings which doesn't prove anything. TNA hasn't had large enough of growth for their weekly ratings to really be affected.

-What are affected are the monthly ratings averages which before April and May were doing better than a year prior which means there was growth.

-I didn't happen to leave out May's ratings as it in fact is about a 0.9. TNA still has two weeks left to see what the monthly averate was.

-Post-Russo Era has maintained their ratings with tiny bits of growth as opposed to pre-Russo era TNA who had the 1.0 (after the move to Thursdays) and lost that in like two months

-I do agree that there needs to be character depth and TNA does it to a point. What about Samoa Joe and Kevin Nash or AJ Styles?

-I do like some straight up storylines like what we saw between Joe and Angle at Lockdown and at Genesis, but it can't happen all the time. Having the over the top storylines makes these angles look much different.

 

[Audioslave]

slave, you've got to stop comparing pro wrestling to emmy award winning shows. that's just a stupid argument. i don't think anybody on the planet thinks that vince russo, brian gerwitz, paul heyman, or any one writing wrestling would be up for the job as head writer of the office, 24, or any other emmy award winner. shows like the office have the luxury of writing their shows months in advance and doing repeated takes to film the show. wrestling is written on the fly, where you have two weeks in between shows that are filmed live to tape. they're two completely different animals, and the actors on the network shows are alot better than the wrestlers. wrestling could be simple, like you like it, one guy's mad at another guy and they fight, but since that's been done for something like 60 years, the audience would know what's going to happen and the show would be too predictable, which has been proven to drive fans away in droves in the past.
and as for your argument about guys having gimmicks, would you rather them just be regular smaller than life people, or have a character which separates them from the average joe in the crowd?
and as for the beating up women, you can blame ecw for making that acceptable in today's wrestling business.

Well, again. Your comprehension and understanding skills are pretty low. I never said any of that.

Fact is: Sports Entertainment / Pro Wrestling has shown (many times) the capability to provide high end drama, action and storytelling within the context of what their brand of entertainment was. There has been many well-developed characters over the years that wrestling has been around. So when you start prattling on about how television productions have months in advance to write, reshoots, rewrites, etc, it just reeks of horse shit. It's a phony argument used to give you some sort of excuse for the lack of anything substantial that goes on during your shows.

What Russo books right now is akin to 94/95 WWF. Instead of TL Hopper, Kwang, The Goon and Jean-Pierre Lafitte stealing Bret Hart's leather jacket.. we have Super Eric, Stone Cold Sharkboy, Maple Leaf Muscle and Prince AJ stealing Kurt Angle's wife.

 

[Talon_DR]

The difference in your comparison is that while Goon, Kwang, Jean Pierre Laffite and TL Hopper were gimmicky like the TNA guys, the TNA guys get great reactions from the fans and in the case of Shark Boy and Black Machismo, are great merchandise sellers.

 

[Kyphael]

Originally Posted by Slyfox696
2005
Date Rating
October 4, 2005 0.8
October 11, 2005 0.8
October 18, 2005 0.8
October 25, 2005 0.9
November 3, 2005 0.9
November 12, 2005 0.8
November 19, 2005 0.6
November 26, 2005 0.8
December 4, 2005 0.8
December 8, 2005 0.8
December 17, 2005 0.7
December 24, 2005 0.9
December 31, 2005 0.8

2006
Date Rating
January 7, 2006 0.9
January 14, 2006 0.8
January 21, 2006 0.9
January 28, 2006 1.1
February 4, 2006 0.7
February 11, 2006 0.8
February 18, 2006 0.7
February 25, 2006 0.9
March 4, 2006 0.7
March 11, 2006 0.7
March 18, 2006 0.9
March 25, 2006 0.9
April 1, 2006 0.6
April 8, 2006 1.0
April 13, 2006 1.1
April 20, 2006 0.9
April 27, 2006 0.8
May 4, 2006 0.9
May 11, 2006 1.0
May 18, 2006 1.1
May 25, 2006 1.2
June 1, 2006 1.1
June 8, 2006 1.0
June 15, 2006 0.8
June 22, 2006 1.1
June 29, 2006 1.1
July 6, 2006 1.0
July 13, 2006 0.9
July 20, 2006 0.8
July 27, 2006 0.8
August 2, 2006 0.8
August 9, 2006 ?.?
August 16, 2006 ?.?
August 23, 2006 0.8
August 30, 2006 0.8
September 7, 2006 0.7
September 14, 2006 0.7
September 21, 2006 ?.?
September 28, 2006 0.88
October 5, 2006 0.8
October 12, 2006 0.9
October 19, 2006 0.8
October 26, 2006 0.8
November 2, 2006 0.8
November 9, 2006 ?.?
November 16, 2006 1.0
November 23, 2006 0.9
November 30, 2006 1.0
December 7, 2006 1.0
December 14, 2006 1.2
December 21, 2006 1.1
December 28, 2006 0.9

After:

2007
Date Rating
January 4, 2007 1.1
January 11, 2007 1.1
January 18, 2007 1.1
January 24, 2007 0.8
January 31, 2007 1.0
February 8, 2007 1.1
February 15, 2007 0.6
February 22, 2007 1.0
March 1, 2007 1.1
March 8, 2007 1.0
March 15, 2007 1.1
March 22, 2007 1.0
March 29, 2007 1.0
April 5, 2007 0.9
April 12, 2007 1.1
April 19, 2007 1.1
April 26, 2007 1.0
May 3, 2007 1.0
May 10, 2007 1.0
May 17, 2007 1.0
May 24, 2007 1.0
May 31, 2007 0.9
June 7, 2007 ?.?
June 14, 2007 1.1
June 21, 2007 1.2
June 28, 2007 1.2
July 5, 2007 1.1
July 12, 2007 1.0
July 19, 2007 1.2
July 26, 2007 1.1
August 2, 2007 1.1
August 9, 2007 1.0
August 16, 2007 1.1
August 23, 2007 1.1
August 30, 2007 1.1
September 6, 2007 1.2
September 13, 2007 1.1
September 20, 2007 1.1
September 27, 2007 0.9
October 4, 2007 1.1
October 11, 2007 1.1
October 18, 2007 1.0
October 25, 2007 1.0
November 1, 2007 1.3
November 8, 2007 1.1
November 15, 2007 1.1
November 22, 2007 1.0
November 29, 2007 1.1
December 6, 2007 1.1
December 13, 2007 1.2
December 20, 2007 ?.?
December 27, 2007 1.1
March 6, 2008 1.2

2008
Date Rating
January 3, 2008 1.1
January 10, 2008 1.1
January 17, 2008 1.2
January 24, 2008 1.2
January 31, 2008 1.2
February 7, 2008 1.1
February 14, 2008 1.1
February 21, 2008 1.1
February 28, 2008 1.1
March 6, 2008 1.2
March 13, 2008 1.1
March 20, 2008 1.0
March 27, 2008 1.0
April 3, 2008 1.1
April 10, 2008 1.0


Wow, look at that huge increase! In two years, with a whole second hour, they're basically doing the same numbers as they were back in late 2006. If that's what you call progress you're unbelievably naive. They can't even compete with ECW. Has anyone WATCHED ECW? They're getting the same numbers as the Originally ECW on TNN who had no advertising help and no promotional help for their product. If you're actually saying TNA is going in the right direction you're once again, naive.

And Black Machismo, Shark Boy, and Curry Man are proof that TNA is booking for the long term success of the company! TNA's problem is they book for the short term, trying to boost the product up one or two points, worried entirely about ratings (just like WCW was) instead of focusing on making their product better for long term benefits. I doubt the financial backing behind TNA is going to keep tossing money away at a loss for another two or three years when the ratings remain at low 1.0's. Good luck with that.

I also see you just "happened" by coincidence to leave out the most recent TV rating of Impact. The last two weeks in May it's done a 0.9. You can use whatever excuses you want for that, such as claiming the low ratings on the time of year, but what did Impact do back in the may of 2006 before Russo was hired? Oh, I believe they did a 1.1 and 1.2.. there's that "up swing" people keep mentioning!

Quoted for awesomeness; somebody hath been owned. I do believe that's check and mate, unless Glenn Gilberti wants to argue facts, which would deflate all the verbal diarrhea that has come out of his mouth (figuratively speaking) in the last few months about how TNA is doing much better now with cartoon characters running around and that ratings have increased and will continue to do so!

SOMEBODY THROW ME SOME DAMN CLAM JUICE, I'M ABOUT TO OPEN A CAN OF WHOOP BASS!

 

[Talon_DR]

Quoted for awesomeness; somebody hath been owned. I do believe that's check and mate, unless Glenn Gilberti wants to argue facts, which would deflate all the verbal diarrhea that has come out of his mouth (figuratively speaking) in the last few months about how TNA is doing much better now with cartoon characters running around and that ratings have increased and will continue to do so!

SOMEBODY THROW ME SOME DAMN CLAM JUICE, I'M ABOUT TO OPEN A CAN OF WHOOP BASS!

I just explained the growth TNA has done yet you fail to understand. I question your intelligence bub.

I don't know why you would be quoting a TNA Character when moments before you just ran down the characters of TNA.

 

[paulsoprano]

Russo is not dragging TNA down because, from all accounts, he does not have enough influence to "drag it down". If anything is dragging TNA down, it's their lack of consistency and their failure to appoint a visionary as head booker/writer. It MUST largely represent the vision of one person and preferably one with a good track record.

TNA's a little bit of everything right now - some good, some not so good. That's because TNA is Jeff Jarrett's baby and, from my understanding of the situation, he won't relinquish the sort of control that is necessary to properly brand the company.

If you look at the history of wrestling, all the successful eras (creatively, critically and financially have been distinguished and defined by the vision of a single-minded head booker/writer or a duo which is singing from the same hymn sheet. I can't remember a booking committe, especially one as creatively divided as TNA's, producing the sort of compelling product that draws huge numbers.

The committee in TNA is an almost laughable mish-mash of philosophies. I just don't think it gels. One segment on Impact might rock, but the other may be mediocre. To think that Dutch and Russo are booking together is wrong on all sorts of levels. There's just no artistic cohesion there. It's like Tarantino writing a movie with the writer of TV's famous hick show Dukes of Hazzard. It might work, but it's just weird. So, as a viewer, you get these odd halfway house. It's not a Tenay show, nor is it edgy enough to be Russo nor old-school enough to be Mantell. In short, it's a little disjointed.

It's pretty amazing that, in a company which was responsible for the Joe-Angle Lockdown match and build-up, we also get Super Eric. Comedy can work in wrestling (AJ and Angle have been hilarious in their goofy roles) and Super Eric was fine as a one-night deal, but it's just an insult to the intelligence now. Most importantly, while I won't get my panties in a bunch over a wrestling angle or gimmick, most would agree that Super Eric has run its course. Scratch that. The whole Eric Young "loveable idiot" gimmick has run its course.

The time for change is now, because ratings are down. I would never claim to speak for everyone. However, speaking for myself, I think TNA declined somewhat after Lockdown. It's not compelling me to watch in the same way. Since ratings are dwindling, I am obviously not the only one who is experiencing this.

I'll be honest. I can't exactly pinpoint what it is that's NOT compelling me. I just think TNA, as good a product as it often is, just lacks that white hot angle and "must watch" quality right now. Knowing that and creating that are two entirely different beasts though.

So, there are a number of things TNA can do to gain greater success. The most critical step, though, should be to give the reins to a head booker/writer and stop changing direction every two weeks just because some Internet geeks (who never seem to be satisfied anyway) complain. Anyone who has read me here before, including me systematically destroying Audioslave's dull anti-TNA rhetoric, knows that I am a fan of TNA and genuinely want them to succeed. So, this is meant with the best will in the world.

 

[psykohurricane]

Russo is not dragging TNA down because, from all accounts, he does not have enough influence to "drag it down". If anything is dragging TNA down, it's their lack of consistency and their failure to appoint a visionary as head booker/writer. It MUST largely represent the vision of one person and preferably one with a good track record.

TNA's a little bit of everything right now - some good, some not so good. That's because TNA is Jeff Jarrett's baby and, from my understanding of the situation, he won't relinquish the sort of control that is necessary to properly brand the company.

If you look at the history of wrestling, all the successful eras (creatively, critically and financially have been distinguished and defined by the vision of a single-minded head booker/writer or a duo which is singing from the same hymn sheet. I can't remember a booking committe, especially one as creatively divided as TNA's, producing the sort of compelling product that draws huge numbers.

The committee in TNA is an almost laughable mish-mash of philosophies. I just don't think it gels. One segment on Impact might rock, but the other may be mediocre. To think that Dutch and Russo are booking together is wrong on all sorts of levels. There's just no artistic cohesion there. It's like Tarantino writing a movie with the writer of TV's famous hick show Dukes of Hazzard. It might work, but it's just weird. So, as a viewer, you get these odd halfway house. It's not a Tenay show, nor is it edgy enough to be Russo nor old-school enough to be Mantell. In short, it's a little disjointed.

It's pretty amazing that, in a company which was responsible for the Joe-Angle Lockdown match and build-up, we also get Super Eric. Comedy can work in wrestling (AJ and Angle have been hilarious in their goofy roles) and Super Eric was fine as a one-night deal, but it's just an insult to the intelligence now. Most importantly, while I won't get my panties in a bunch over a wrestling angle or gimmick, most would agree that Super Eric has run its course. Scratch that. The whole Eric Young "loveable idiot" gimmick has run its course.

The time for change is now, because ratings are down. I would never claim to speak for everyone. However, speaking for myself, I think TNA declined somewhat after Lockdown. It's not compelling me to watch in the same way. Since ratings are dwindling, I am obviously not the only one who is experiencing this.

I'll be honest. I can't exactly pinpoint what it is that's NOT compelling me. I just think TNA, as good a product as it often is, just lacks that white hot angle and "must watch" quality right now. Knowing that and creating that are two entirely different beasts though.

So, there are a number of things TNA can do to gain greater success. The most critical step, though, should be to give the reins to a head booker/writer and stop changing direction every two weeks just because some Internet geeks (who never seem to be satisfied anyway) complain. Anyone who has read me here before, including me systematically destroying Audioslave's dull anti-TNA rhetoric, knows that I am a fan of TNA and genuinely want them to succeed. So, this is meant with the best will in the world.

I completly agree with you on this TNA's booking comitee need to decided which road to take right now, you either go with the old school stuff and be a wrestling show or go with Russo and is sport entertainment stuff and run with that but you can't have it both ways. The problem with TNA is simply that they don't know when they got a good thing going. Take for exemple the Lockdown PPV, they had a good build up for the main event, they actually were able to get more fans interested in watching this ppv because of the mian event, they should have realise right there that what they were doing with Joe and angle could be what was need to get fans to actually watch Impact but no, instead the first episode of IMPACT is the same damn miss match stuff that we were getting before so how can new fans that had just paid 30$ to watch Joe vs angle be interested in continuing to watch TNA when you get more comedic and backstage stuff then actual matches.

Another thing that you got to realise right now is that if it wasn't for the woman's division on IMPACT, the ratings for this would be pretty much at the same level they were last year because outside of these segment, everything else is doing poorly in the ratings.

I sure hope that TNA get their act together because i'm a huge supporter of TNA and iwould be so happy to see them succeed and be competition for the WWE but for now that's not going to happen.

 

[psykohurricane]

Simple storylines are boring.

Maybe for you they are but for most of the non-wrestling fans and even some of us wrestling fans there not. Am not suggesting that every storylines have to be has simple has bad guy hates good guy but don't give them to many reasons to hate each other or having somebody like booker t turn heel out of the blue and not really explaining why he turn heel in the first. Another thing that bother about the way TNA is booked is the fact that they sometime don'T build drama in there angles. Last night, you had a backstage segment with Black Machismo, sonjay dutt and the rock & Rave Infection, At the end of the segment just when the rock & Rave infection were beating up sonjay and black machismo they cut back to the announce team who introduce the abyss video without really mentionning any of what just happen. That's a real problem right there because how are we suppose to care about an angle if even the announce team doesn'T care about it. And that's a problem that comes up alot during IMPACT.

 

[Marty2Hotty]

If you put out a "simple storyline" that everyone else has already seen, chances are most casual viewers are not going to give a shit about it. nWo was pretty different when it first started and wasn't considered "simple". Even the Corporate Ministry angle and the way it played out with McMahon being the leader was not completely "simple".

Even Austin vs McMahon wasn't a typical "I hate you wrestler B, I want the belt"

They don't need announcers popping for every single bit that happens in my opinion. I thought people complained that Tenay re-mentions everything that happened.

TNA lost 600000 viewers because I think they went to a more serious route and did a lot more straight wrestling over the past few months. I think last night's show was a good step forward.

 

[psykohurricane]

If you put out a "simple storyline" that everyone else has already seen, chances are most casual viewers are not going to give a shit about it. nWo was pretty different when it first started and wasn't considered "simple". Even the Corporate Ministry angle and the way it played out with McMahon being the leader was not completely "simple".

Even Austin vs McMahon wasn't a typical "I hate you wrestler B, I want the belt"

They don't need announcers popping for every single bit that happens in my opinion. I thought people complained that Tenay re-mentions everything that happened.

TNA lost 600000 viewers because I think they went to a more serious route and did a lot more straight wrestling over the past few months. I think last night's show was a good step forward.

How is having characters like Stone cold Shark boy, curry man and Super Eric taken the more serious route, the last couple of month pretty much focus on comedic character except for a couple of more serious feuds. Like i said before you could do anything you want but if Mike Tenay and Don West don'T care about what going on why would anybody cared. That's the biggest problem with TNA and i blame the booking comitee for this because they don't follow up on feud. Like i mention before, during the last episode of IMPACT they were hyping the wedding of Black machismo and Socal Val and did backstage interview with them and Sonjay just to be interrupt by the rock& Rave Infection, just when the Rock & Rave Infection started to beat Machismo and Sonjay up they go back to ringside and They don'T even talk about it. That's the just one of the exemple since they do this on a regular basis. Sometime you would get a match that suppose to suppose to help a storyline advance but for some weird reason they don't even talk about the 2 wrestler in the ring and instead talk about something completly different that doesn't even matter. That's why TNA doesn't get ratings because if the company doesn'T cared about their storylines why should the fans cared.

And by the way just to give you a respond to the simple storyline doesn'T sell, The kurt angle vs Samoa joe storyline was the most sucessful storylines they had since the beginning of the year. Because of that storyline, they had more peoples buying The Lockdown PPV that any PPV in TNA History so don'T tell me that simple storylines doesn'T sell because if done properly, it can be as good as a complicated one and by the way the austin/Mcmahon feud, one of the most successful storyline in the history of wrestling, was a simple case of Mcmahon hating Austin and not wanting him as champion and Austin hated mcmahon and wanted to rebel against his boss. It was one of the most simple storyline ever made and it worked miracle for the WWE.

 

[Cocktail Gherkin]

i just read Glen Gillebertie's latest colum and the first thing i thought was
"Who the Hell does this guy think he is " is he trying to piss people off ?
i dont think calling the people who actualy care about TNA "nerds" is gonna
do it any favors . the most ironic thing is this guy is constantly talking shit
yet his biggest claim to fame is having the "disco inferno " gimmick and i think
he won the WCW tv title and WCW tag titles and the realy bad thing is
the The former Pizza man Gilliberti acts like he's some kind of Genius
its realy pathetic . i honestly dont think that he's did a damn thing for TNA
he obvious thinks he's a wrestling mastermind and he made TNA what it is
and he's obviously 100% wrong The Hard Working Wrestlers and dedicated fans made
TNA . if it wasnt for the Fans he'd still be wrestling in a High school gym on
friday nights for a hot dog and 50 bucks

 

[psykohurricane]

i just read Glen Gillebertie's latest colum and the first thing i thought was
"Who the Hell does this guy think he is " is he trying to piss people off ?
i dont think calling the people who actualy care about TNA "nerds" is gonna
do it any favors . the most ironic thing is this guy is constantly talking shit
yet his biggest claim to fame is having the "disco inferno " gimmick and i think
he won the WCW tv title and WCW tag titles and the realy bad thing is
the The former Pizza man Gilliberti acts like he's some kind of Genius
its realy pathetic . i honestly dont think that he's did a damn thing for TNA
he obvious thinks he's a wrestling mastermind and he made TNA what it is
and he's obviously 100% wrong The Hard Working Wrestlers and dedicated fans made
TNA . if it wasnt for the Fans he'd still be wrestling in a High school gym on
friday nights for a hot dog and 50 bucks

i wouldn'T be that hard on Disco, yes he'S trying to piis people off simply because he's trying to be a arrogant heel like what he was on tv. But i got to agree about one thing. Glenn Gilberti isn't a genius or a wrestling mastermind at all, the best way to describe Glenn gilberti's wrestling career is to say that he was a comic relief and that pretty much all he was. Has for your statement about who made TNA sure if it wasn't for the HArdcore fans and the hard working wrestler TNA would exist right now but at the same time you got to give credit to the booking comitee to being able to have these wrestler actually have some sort of personality or gimmick, now all they got to do is found the perfect formula to have people watching IMPACT and buying PPV.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Disco was a pretty good heel. I hated his character. Just don't define him by his time with Alex Wright. Actually, he was quite effective in the pre-Montreal state of wrestling.

The comic characters are going to run their course. They've hung onto Jay Lethal's for too long. They are moving to resolution. My only hope is that Dutt brings in Lashley as the Monster (ala the Undertaker) to ruin the reception. Then the storyline can be called a complete rip-off. My hope is that if they are doing 90's WWE, they move towards the attitude era quickly. I enjoy the show. I see flaws, from storyline inconsistency, to bad characters to misusing guys. But overall, the top of the card stays intense, and the midcard is developed. Guys fit into identifiable roles, and guys flow up and down the card seemlessly. Someone explain what JBL did to get into a title match? He lost to Jericho, the Jericho won the IC, beat Jeff Hardy twice. JBL didn't deserve a promotion, Y2J did. In TNA Joe moved up in the card step by step. From the time he got Nash through when he won, the story was clear. Russo was on the team for all that. The only flaw in that whole program was adding the retirement stipulation because it gave the story away.

During that time the 3D weight stipulation was abandoned. So the problems are there, granted, but I can do the same to WWE. Fact is, TNA is learning. JJ knew how to wrestle, but running an entire promotion is a different animal. Every year there have been massive improvements. Ratings don't show it, but production value and a TV deal do.

 

[Marty2Hotty]

Glenn is one of the smartest wrestling minds in the business today next to Vince Russo. Both are employed at TNA and if both get to write TV together no holds barred, I'm going to guarantee a ratings surge within one year. They're not afraid to take risks and both know what the public wants.

I won't use someone's character to compare them to what they know in the business. Disqo in the Filthy Animals was great comic relief in my opinion.

Basically, it all comes down to trying things differently and if TNA is wanting to capture that 18-34 demographic like the Attitude Era did, they need to really make teh dialogue, storylines and characters much more interesting. Especially in 2008. At least they are focusing on the females a bit.. but they need great stories. Even Attitude era had some good entertainment. Patterson/Brisco vs Mean Street Posse drew like an 8 rating unopposed I believe... and that had nothign to do with athletic ability. It was comedy and entertainment. Rock and Sock drew 8 rating and that was pure entertainment. People enjoyed the humour the larger than life characters.

A Curry Man and Stone Cold Shark Boy is just a part of the show to entertain the fans. They have their soap opera angles like Kurt/Karen/AJ and that's great too. But they also need some good drama (which they did with Abyss/Sting and did well, IMO) and some reality (which they have done in the past with VKM) but they need more reality, shoots.. and just good compelling televiison. You do that for one solid year and your rating is guaranteed to go up

If you do just straight long wrestling matches. all you're doing is turning off the mainstream audience. The last thing they want to see is a lame, predictable, rassslin match that is predetermined that they have seen millions of times before. if you're going to do wrestling, keep it short, to the point and make the finishes and storyliens interesting to the mainstream audience.

Rusos had McMahon and McMahon continued to take risks. Russo has Jeff Jarrett and jarrett doesn't have the balls to let Russo write and take risks.. that's where the difference lies between the companies - Russo/McMahon/WWF and Russo/Jarrett/TNA. Jarrett's got to remember that it was Russo who pushed him to the moon in WWF and gave him the "Chosen One" gimmick in WCW that got him hugely over as a heel in WCW.

 

[gg inferno]

actually, brisco/patterson v. mean street posse drew a 6. something to hogan v. savage main event on nitro which drew a 3. something. i specifically remember that they almost doubled our rating for that segment. but marty is absolutely right about long matches. the problem with tna right now is that the shows aren't as fun and controversial as they were in january, and wrestling in general is having a hard time competing with the celtics and the lakers being this deep in the playoffs. basketball is doing super strong numbers right now.

 

[X]

Glenn is one of the smartest wrestling minds in the business today next to Vince Russo. Both are employed at TNA and if both get to write TV together no holds barred, I'm going to guarantee a ratings surge within one year. They're not afraid to take risks and both know what the public wants.

And here I thought you had left because of how badly ridiculed you've been.

Again Marty, and this is just becoming downright scary, but again you've managed to top your previous level of idiocy. Now you say that ratings would surge if all writing went to Russo & Glenn Gilberti? No. Just no. You mean like that huge ratings surge that WCW had when Russo came in? Please.

Basically, it all comes down to trying things differently and if TNA is wanting to capture that 18-34 demographic like the Attitude Era did, they need to really make teh dialogue, storylines and characters much more interesting. Especially in 2008. At least they are focusing on the females a bit.. but they need great stories. Even Attitude era had some good entertainment. Patterson/Brisco vs Mean Street Posse drew like an 8 rating unopposed I believe... and that had nothign to do with athletic ability. It was comedy and entertainment. Rock and Sock drew 8 rating and that was pure entertainment. People enjoyed the humour the larger than life characters.

You're right, people do enjoy humor and larger than life characters. But only if it's done well, which TNA has never managed to do, not once. I've honestly never seen a single thing on Impact that made me laugh out loud and say "Now that's funny!" as opposed to something like DX imitating the Nation, which I still find hilarious. One is written well, the other is written with the intelligence and talent of a 7 year old.

A Curry Man and Stone Cold Shark Boy is just a part of the show to entertain the fans. They have their soap opera angles like Kurt/Karen/AJ and that's great too. But they also need some good drama (which they did with Abyss/Sting and did well, IMO) and some reality (which they have done in the past with VKM) but they need more reality, shoots.. and just good compelling televiison. You do that for one solid year and your rating is guaranteed to go up

Yes, so great in fact that each week Curry Man & Shark Boy recieve less and less TV time.

If you do just straight long wrestling matches. all you're doing is turning off the mainstream audience. The last thing they want to see is a lame, predictable, rassslin match that is predetermined that they have seen millions of times before. if you're going to do wrestling, keep it short, to the point and make the finishes and storyliens interesting to the mainstream audience.

I actually agree with this for the most part if TNA wants to become largely popular. But didn't TNA start under the guise of providing "real" wrestling to fans? Wasn't that all they preached about for the first 5 years of the company? That's out the window now.

Rusos had McMahon and McMahon continued to take risks. Russo has Jeff Jarrett and jarrett doesn't have the balls to let Russo write and take risks.. that's where the difference lies between the companies - Russo/McMahon/WWF and Russo/Jarrett/TNA. Jarrett's got to remember that it was Russo who pushed him to the moon in WWF and gave him the "Chosen One" gimmick in WCW that got him hugely over as a heel in WCW.

When was Jeff Jarrett pushed to the moon in WWF? Is that a joke? The guy never got above low-to-mid card at best. He stayed at virtually the same exact level in that company since he started there in 95.

 

[psykohurricane]

actually, brisco/patterson v. mean street posse drew a 6. something to hogan v. savage main event on nitro which drew a 3. something. i specifically remember that they almost doubled our rating for that segment. but marty is absolutely right about long matches. the problem with tna right now is that the shows aren't as fun and controversial as they were in january, and wrestling in general is having a hard time competing with the celtics and the lakers being this deep in the playoffs. basketball is doing super strong numbers right now.

First of all blaming basketball for TNA'S ratings problem is just a excuse because let'S face it, TNA were had the same ratings for the last year or so. Their rating were always betwen 0.8 and 1.2 even without basketball going against it. The problem with TNA right now isn'T that they aren't fun or controversial, it'S that they don't cared about their own storylines. How many time did TNA had a backstage segment to advance the feud and just has it was starting to get interesting they would cut to Mike Tenay and Don West and these 2 would completly ignored what just happen or say a little remark about before going in to something. The most recent exemple of this was the backstage segment with Black machismo, Sonjay Dutt, Socal val and the rock & RAve infection. They go through all the trouble of doing a segment were the rock & Rave infection offer there service to Lethal to be the band at is wedding, then when he says no, get out of here, The rock & rave infection start beat lethal and dutt up and we got back to Tenay and West who pretty just don't cared enough to even talk about it since they introduce the Abyss video.

Like i said a million time, the two most important guy in the company are the play by play guy and the color analyst. They are the ones that tell the story and hook the fans, you can be has contreversal or as fun as you want but if West and Tenay don'T care about what's going on, the fans won'T either.

 

[gg inferno]

First of all blaming basketball for TNA'S ratings problem is just a excuse because let'S face it, TNA were had the same ratings for the last year or so. Their rating were always betwen 0.8 and 1.2 even without basketball going against it. The problem with TNA right now isn'T that they aren't fun or controversial, it'S that they don't cared about their own storylines. How many time did TNA had a backstage segment to advance the feud and just has it was starting to get interesting they would cut to Mike Tenay and Don West and these 2 would completly ignored what just happen or say a little remark about before going in to something. The most recent exemple of this was the backstage segment with Black machismo, Sonjay Dutt, Socal val and the rock & RAve infection. They go through all the trouble of doing a segment were the rock & Rave infection offer there service to Lethal to be the band at is wedding, then when he says no, get out of here, The rock & rave infection start beat lethal and dutt up and we got back to Tenay and West who pretty just don't cared enough to even talk about it since they introduce the Abyss video.

Like i said a million time, the two most important guy in the company are the play by play guy and the color analyst. They are the ones that tell the story and hook the fans, you can be has contreversal or as fun as you want but if West and Tenay don'T care about what's going on, the fans won'T either.

that is true.

 

[Damien Reign]

A few things to note about the difference between Casual Wrestling Fans and Internet Wrestling Fans

-The IWC watches TNA TV, stew about it for a while then watches the next show. They analyze the whole show. Figure out the negatives and the positives, what could be changed and what should remain the same. These types of fans think they are running TNA and that their opinions mean as much as they do. The IWC likes wrestling and loved TNA back in 2005 when everything was serious and it was all about the wrestling.

-You got your casual wrestling fan which makes up a huge portion of TNA's audience and TNA's would be audience. Now a good portion of these fans are loyal but there are also some that just watch to see if the show is good. Casual Fans watch the show, are entertained by it and move on into their lives. If they don't like the show, they change the channel or wait for a segment that entertains them. As opposed to the IWC who are watching the show to judge the show, casual fans are there to be entertained. That is what helps the ratings. The Casual Fan doesn't care as much about wrestling, they care about entertaining characters and storylines. These are the fans TNA needs to cater to for iMPACT!

-PPVs are made up by a larger portion of IWC fans because a) they're more loyal and b) they want to see wrestling, even if they have to pay for it.

-TV Should be mostly drama and entertainment while PPVs can cut the crap and be all about wrestling.

-The IWC hate on Black Machismo, Shark Boy and Curry Man. All three are good merchandise sellers (watch the upcoming Curry Man shirts top the sale list at ShopTNA.com) They all three (along with Super Eric) get excellent reactions from the crowd, more than certain serious characters on the roster. You have to feature these stars on TV or else they are forgotten.

-The biggest problem is that many casual fans don't care as much for the wrestling because it is predictable. TNA's horrible booking practices hurt the wrestling quality on TV. Whether it non-clean finishes, too many swerves or failure to follow up character development or wrestler build, the casual fans just don't care. That is why PPV Buyrates are "down". TNA needs to improve their booking, that is what will help the product in the best fashion.

 

[psykohurricane]

A few things to note about the difference between Casual Wrestling Fans and Internet Wrestling Fans

-The IWC watches TNA TV, stew about it for a while then watches the next show. They analyze the whole show. Figure out the negatives and the positives, what could be changed and what should remain the same. These types of fans think they are running TNA and that their opinions mean as much as they do. The IWC likes wrestling and loved TNA back in 2005 when everything was serious and it was all about the wrestling.

-You got your casual wrestling fan which makes up a huge portion of TNA's audience and TNA's would be audience. Now a good portion of these fans are loyal but there are also some that just watch to see if the show is good. Casual Fans watch the show, are entertained by it and move on into their lives. If they don't like the show, they change the channel or wait for a segment that entertains them. As opposed to the IWC who are watching the show to judge the show, casual fans are there to be entertained. That is what helps the ratings. The Casual Fan doesn't care as much about wrestling, they care about entertaining characters and storylines. These are the fans TNA needs to cater to for iMPACT!

-PPVs are made up by a larger portion of IWC fans because a) they're more loyal and b) they want to see wrestling, even if they have to pay for it.

-TV Should be mostly drama and entertainment while PPVs can cut the crap and be all about wrestling.

-The IWC hate on Black Machismo, Shark Boy and Curry Man. All three are good merchandise sellers (watch the upcoming Curry Man shirts top the sale list at ShopTNA.com) They all three (along with Super Eric) get excellent reactions from the crowd, more than certain serious characters on the roster. You have to feature these stars on TV or else they are forgotten.

-The biggest problem is that many casual fans don't care as much for the wrestling because it is predictable. TNA's horrible booking practices hurt the wrestling quality on TV. Whether it non-clean finishes, too many swerves or failure to follow up character development or wrestler build, the casual fans just don't care. That is why PPV Buyrates are "down". TNA needs to improve their booking, that is what will help the product in the best fashion.

Again i got to disagree with you on this because unless most IWC is over 50 years old ,they are not the biggest fans group watching TNA right. The majority of people watching TNA are over the age of 50. Another thing i got to say is, like i said on my previous post, the only thing that hurting TNA right now is Mike Tenay and Don West that it. If TNA was able to get the announce time to actually cared about the product casual fans would watch this show. If you where a casual fans watching TNA and during a match between Shark Boy and Johnny Divine, the announce team would start speaking about anything but what going on in the ring or even worst, something is happining backstage then after they go to the announce team and the don't even talk about what just happen backstage, has a casual fan, would you be interested in watching the show? I sure wouldn't. At the end of the day, IMPACT should be all about hyping the next PPV, if they are unable to sell the PPV they didn'T do Tenay and west didn't do there job and you could have have all the entertaining angle you want, if the announce team isn't able to sell it, casual fan or not, there not going to watch the show.