Vince Russo Dragging TNA Down?

[shoe1985]

WOW I can't believe the last few posts have actually been pro-Russo and that the fans in Orlando are "stupid morons". What's with the Russo love all of a sudden? Don't you guys think TNA was a good wrestling product before they hired him? Oh and he deserves to get those chants for the stupid things he did in wcw. The wcw fans are morons for not chanting that back in 2000.

I suggested to Sean Oliver of KayfabeCommentaries.com to never have Vince Russo as a "Guest Booker" because he's unpopular and the dvd would probably suck because he's not a good booker. I guess a lot of people here would buy that dvd. I think they should have a Guest Booker with Lance Storm re-booking TNA in 2007.

Like I said before, the public, not the hardcore wrestling fan, want fun angles. If TNA is ever to grow, they need to have entertaining storylines. Wrestling is the side show. You will always have the hardcore wrestling fans, that will love the great matches. If you want to grow and earn more money, you need to do what the public wants. Why did WCW and the WWF do so well in the late 90's? They moved away from the kiddie angles, and did more to bring in the public that didn't really care for the product.

I will admit, I am not fond of shaving heads, especially of females, not sure who made that decision. But take the Abyss angle they aired, it was creepy, and Mankind like, but I was into it. I am not sure who booked it, maybe Russo, but if they can take the character to a darker place again, maybe he would be fun again. Russo does over the edge a lot, but it draws attention. People get curious, and want to know what will happen next.

If you put a show of just wrestling, which is what the ppv should be, people won't watch. You need the Impact show to build up the storylines, and then people will want to see the wrestlers fight out their problems.

 

[Talon_DR]

TNA has been like WWE recently by featuring more straight shooting serious angles. Evident by TNA's and WWE's dropping ratings, this isn't what fans want. TNA got it's highest ratings ever in January which featured Shark Boy, the End of Year Awards and James Mitchell recealing Abyss' secret. Storylines draw ratings, wrestling sells PPVs.

Here are the steps I would take to get TNA to draw ratings:

1) Eliminate the iMPACT Replay on Saturday. It only hurts the premier episode because fans know they can watch things like Survivor on Thursday while catching iMPACT during the replay on Saturday.

2) Move iMPACT to Wednesday Nights- Instead of putting iMPACT against heavy competition put it up against less competition from shows. That way you don't have TNA fans who prefer other shows on Thursdays missing the shows and you attract the bored viewer which is good for TNA.

3) More Drama- Face it, the drama in TNA draws ratings. Big angles, comedy, backstage skits. Feature an ongoing storyline through an episode of iMPACT to keep the fans glued. More over-the top angles like Murder, Love Triangles and such make straight shooting angles more important.

4) More character development- Samoa Joe isn't as entertaining because he is the same average Joe he was months ago and nothing changes. He screams and he wrestles, that's all. Other characters need character progression. What happened to Black Reign who was an interesting character but they gave up on him? Why doesn't TNA feature Shark Boy more because he sells merchandise?

5) Either make iMPACT Wrestling matches PPV lenth or add a time limit to explain why iMPACT Matches are shorter. It doesn't make sense from a thinker point of view why Robert Roode vs Booker T on iMPACT is much shorter than Robert Roode vs Booker T on PPV. Creating a time limit feature would explain why wrestlers have to speed up their style to beat their opponents in the time limit and would create an intrigue on what happens in the case of a draw. I would have three judges (Frank Trigg and two others) pick the winner. Big time matches (Gimmick Matches, Championship Matches and Main Events) would receive a longer time limit of course.

These are just a few of my many suggestions

 

[psykohurricane]

TNA has been like WWE recently by featuring more straight shooting serious angles. Evident by TNA's and WWE's dropping ratings, this isn't what fans want. TNA got it's highest ratings ever in January which featured Shark Boy, the End of Year Awards and James Mitchell recealing Abyss' secret. Storylines draw ratings, wrestling sells PPVs.

Here are the steps I would take to get TNA to draw ratings:

1) Eliminate the iMPACT Replay on Saturday. It only hurts the premier episode because fans know they can watch things like Survivor on Thursday while catching iMPACT during the replay on Saturday.

2) Move iMPACT to Wednesday Nights- Instead of putting iMPACT against heavy competition put it up against less competition from shows. That way you don't have TNA fans who prefer other shows on Thursdays missing the shows and you attract the bored viewer which is good for TNA.

3) More Drama- Face it, the drama in TNA draws ratings. Big angles, comedy, backstage skits. Feature an ongoing storyline through an episode of iMPACT to keep the fans glued. More over-the top angles like Murder, Love Triangles and such make straight shooting angles more important.

4) More character development- Samoa Joe isn't as entertaining because he is the same average Joe he was months ago and nothing changes. He screams and he wrestles, that's all. Other characters need character progression. What happened to Black Reign who was an interesting character but they gave up on him? Why doesn't TNA feature Shark Boy more because he sells merchandise?

5) Either make iMPACT Wrestling matches PPV lenth or add a time limit to explain why iMPACT Matches are shorter. It doesn't make sense from a thinker point of view why Robert Roode vs Booker T on iMPACT is much shorter than Robert Roode vs Booker T on PPV. Creating a time limit feature would explain why wrestlers have to speed up their style to beat their opponents in the time limit and would create an intrigue on what happens in the case of a draw. I would have three judges (Frank Trigg and two others) pick the winner. Big time matches (Gimmick Matches, Championship Matches and Main Events) would receive a longer time limit of course.

These are just a few of my many suggestions

I got to give it to you, some of these suggestion a really good especially suggestion 1, 2 ,5. But igot to disagree with you on suggestion 3 and 4.

First let's talk about suggestion #3, i really don't think that they need more drama, what they need is simpler storylines. Let'S face it, they tried to use dramas and comedy in the past and they're still doing it today a for what exactly, absolutely nothing, they get the same ratings they were getting when it was all about wrestling, the only time since pretty good rating this year was in january and last month. Right now the problem with TNA is that there are to many storylines going on and most of them are so complicated that you just don'T care about them. For Exemple, Booker T's Heel turn, it absolutely came out of nowhere and you never really got any explication why he turn in the first place. He was book as a face all month long then goes into the ppv as a face like nothing happens and turn on christian and rhino for no apparent reason. Just a suggestion for the TNA Booking comitee, stop making storylines for everybody on the roster and start concentrating on the wrestlers that can actually help you make some money. You got the establish guys like Sting and Kurt Angle that could easily help you raise those ratings if they were book correctly. Same thing goes for TNA stars like A.J Styles and Samoa Joe. All They got to do is put these guys in a storylines that are simple to understand and that the average fans could get into. Bring back stuff like the use to have in the late 80's early 90's when all you had to do was have a good guy fight a bad guy and give them a really easy reason why they hate each other, i guarantee you that if you use this type of booking that within a year, TNA will double there ratings.

As for as suggestion 4 is concern, i don't thing you need more character developpement since they pretty got everything cover. Sure if i was TNA i would slightly change Samoa Joe's character. I would have im return to the Goldberg type wrestler he was when he first started in TNA. That's what Samoa joe need to be, he need to be that bad ass wrestler that's nearly unstoppable to beat. But outside of that i pretty much thing that TNA got all the character developement they need right now.

On a side note, if i was TNA, i would pretty much fired every wrestler that are Dead weight in the company. If your'e not going to use guy like the rock & rave infection, rellik and Black Reign and other like that that are basicly paid to lose every week, why not just get rid of them, this would give them a chance to focus on the wrestler that actually means something.

 

[Talon_DR]

I got to give it to you, some of these suggestion a really good especially suggestion 1, 2 ,5. But igot to disagree with you on suggestion 3 and 4.

First let's talk about suggestion #3, i really don't think that they need more drama, what they need is simpler storylines. Let'S face it, they tried to use dramas and comedy in the past and they're still doing it today a for what exactly, absolutely nothing, they get the same ratings they were getting when it was all about wrestling, the only time since pretty good rating this year was in january and last month. Right now the problem with TNA is that there are to many storylines going on and most of them are so complicated that you just don'T care about them. For Exemple, Booker T's Heel turn, it absolutely came out of nowhere and you never really got any explication why he turn in the first place. He was book as a face all month long then goes into the ppv as a face like nothing happens and turn on christian and rhino for no apparent reason. Just a suggestion for the TNA Booking comitee, stop making storylines for everybody on the roster and start concentrating on the wrestlers that can actually help you make some money. You got the establish guys like Sting and Kurt Angle that could easily help you raise those ratings if they were book correctly. Same thing goes for TNA stars like A.J Styles and Samoa Joe. All They got to do is put these guys in a storylines that are simple to understand and that the average fans could get into. Bring back stuff like the use to have in the late 80's early 90's when all you had to do was have a good guy fight a bad guy and give them a really easy reason why they hate each other, i guarantee you that if you use this type of booking that within a year, TNA will double there ratings.

As for as suggestion 4 is concern, i don't thing you need more character developpement since they pretty got everything cover. Sure if i was TNA i would slightly change Samoa Joe's character. I would have im return to the Goldberg type wrestler he was when he first started in TNA. That's what Samoa joe need to be, he need to be that bad ass wrestler that's nearly unstoppable to beat. But outside of that i pretty much thing that TNA got all the character developement they need right now.

On a side note, if i was TNA, i would pretty much fired every wrestler that are Dead weight in the company. If your'e not going to use guy like the rock & rave infection, rellik and Black Reign and other like that that are basicly paid to lose every week, why not just get rid of them, this would give them a chance to focus on the wrestler that actually means something.

You have very good reasons for your reasoning but here is mine:

1) Before Russo came on board iMPACT! was sinking in its ratings. As a matter of fact the only thing the jumped the ratings were the one week Sting showed up and the move to Thursday Nights but everything else, booking, wrestling wasn't enough. They started at 0.8 on Spike TV and in September even after the move to Thursdays they ended at a 0.8

Russo's era not only rose the monthly average but did so along with an extra hour, head to head against ECW and on Thanksgiving. TNA was breaking records in January and were faring pretty good until they decided to slow things down and make things more serious. TNA has continued down this road and the people who liked the over the top angles and character development, think their watching the WWE and stop tuning in, therefore the ratings keep dropping. This is due to catering to the IWC.

2) As for guys you consider dead weight, TNA pays them off of work dates so if they don't use them, they don't get paid. It is better to have them accessible than not to when you need them.

3) Some of your suggestions are good.

 

[psykohurricane]

You have very good reasons for your reasoning but here is mine:

1) Before Russo came on board iMPACT! was sinking in its ratings. As a matter of fact the only thing the jumped the ratings were the one week Sting showed up and the move to Thursday Nights but everything else, booking, wrestling wasn't enough. They started at 0.8 on Spike TV and in September even after the move to Thursdays they ended at a 0.8

Russo's era not only rose the monthly average but did so along with an extra hour, head to head against ECW and on Thanksgiving. TNA was breaking records in January and were faring pretty good until they decided to slow things down and make things more serious. TNA has continued down this road and the people who liked the over the top angles and character development, think their watching the WWE and stop tuning in, therefore the ratings keep dropping. This is due to catering to the IWC.

Yes you do bring up a good point but how much did it affect the PPV Buy rate? Since they started the whole over the top angles and character developpement stuff , none of the new fans that were watching Impact actually bought any of there PPV. The only PPV that actually made them moneey is Lockdown and that's because of the seriousness of the storyline between Joe and Kurt Angle. Another thing that i realise is that the highest rated segment on any epiosede of Impact since November of last year is the knockout segment and most of the time there the most serious segment on the show so my guess is that if they could build the rest of the show the way they build these segment then maybe they would get higher ratings. If i was part of the booking comitee i would go see whoever is responsible of the knockouts segment on Impact and let him be in charge of storylines because it look like at less one person in TNA know the secret to higher rating.

 

[Audioslave]

TNA got it's highest ratings ever in January which

..had no major network competition on Thursdays as The Office, Earl, Grey's Anatomy, Ugly Betty, whatever CSI is on that day if any, etc, were all sidelined by the writer's strike.

It's funny that you all say "LOL THEIR HIGHEST RATINGS EVER" as if getting a rating marginally better than their usually 1.0 - 1.1 is any big deal when they have shown no ability to sustain it.

 

[Audioslave]

look at WWE, they saw that Orton as champ didn't work and the belt is back on HHH. Simple business, Orton is simply not ready, it's nothing about HHH wanting to screw Orton over, I couldn't care about Orton but I think HHH is an awesome champ. It's really that easy.

You keep proving time and time again that you're not bright in the slightest. The reason why it Orton wasn't working as champ this time around is because the guy wasn't being booked right. No one was given any reason to care about him once he went for and won the belt. He looked like a chump more often than not. People are supposed to be given reasons to want to see him lose the belt, but they weren't given anything.

It's the same thing with Samoa Joe. The guy had a good deal of momentum and the badass, take-no-prisoners character that brought him to the dance was amputated and watered down and changed into something completely different. The way they'd been booking him since after BFG '07 did not play to any of his strengths. He was a whiny, bitchy little loser that needed an old man with no knees to help "advise" him on how to become a champ. They gave him a stupid never ending contract storyline and then some halfassed serious build to the Angle title match. It was haphazard booking at it's worst.

Just because Joe, Styles, Killings or whoever are TNA home grown stars is no reason to job them out and make them second tier to WWE dudes. If they'd made Sting look like a bitch with the nWo, that storyline would've came to a halt. You can say "Well Joe and Styles are no STING.", yeah. But thinking that way is the reason that TNA is never going to create a SUPERSTAR of their own.

The reason wrestling is in such a sad state is because of homogenized booking of stars (Orton) or a mindset similar to yours being utilized by the bookers (Joe's fat, so fuck him).

 

[Talon_DR]

..had no major network competition on Thursdays as The Office, Earl, Grey's Anatomy, Ugly Betty, whatever CSI is on that day if any, etc, were all sidelined by the writer's strike.

It's funny that you all say "LOL THEIR HIGHEST RATINGS EVER" as if getting a rating marginally better than their usually 1.0 - 1.1 is any big deal when they have shown no ability to sustain it.

Which is why I would move iMPACT to Wednesday Nights!

Let's look at the figures:
(Pre-Russo Era)
-When TNA started on Spike they never got past a .8 monthly rating. That's October, November, December, January, February.
-The only thing that really popped ratings were Sting's "arrival" on iMPACT!
-When TNA moved to Thursday Nights, they got a monthly average of 1.0 for about 2 months.
-July, August, September and October the ratings dropped back down to the 0.8 therefore voiding any growth TNA should have gained since the move to Thursday Nights.
-This was Pre-Russo Era and focused more on serious competition, athleticism and the X Division more. There were few over the top storylines. Now summer should be a time when TNA gains more viewers but they didn't.

(Russo Era)
-Started with a 1.0 monthly average for November which did include the move to Primetime.
-TNA averaged from .9 to 1.1 until October when TNA would move to 2 Hour iMPACTs
-Despite it being harder to maintain ratings with an extra hour, TNA did so.
-TNA Monthly rating averages grew from 1.05 to 1.16 in January
-Ratings were sustained on Thanksgiving, which is hard to do since it is a holiday.
-Ratings were sustained head to head against ECW as TNA got a 1.1 while ECW got a 0.6
-On January 24th the viewer audience hit a new record since the debut. It hit yet another record the following week with 1.7 million viewers. TNA was headed towards a 1.3 rating.
-In February the ratings were maintained
-In March and April, TNA decided to listen to IWC fans and concentrate more on a serious product. Ratings dropped to a 1.0
-Ratings stayed at a 1.0 even with the Live Edition of iMPACT and the huge Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe World Title Match.
-Ratings plummeted to a 0.9 which to WWE isn't much of a drop, but is bigger to TNA.

(Other Figures)
-Some blame the ratings drop to the NBA, NCAA and season finale's of the top shows
-Some say TNA hit ratings records because their was a writing strike.
-WWE offers a more serious product than TNA with less over the top angles but their ratings have been dropping for a while even back in January when TNA's were rising.
-WWE hit a 4.1 rating during a 2-hour Raw after the storyline where Vince McMahon was killed, commenced. Ratings haven't hit a 4.0 unless they were a special show such as the Raw Anniversary Show. (This proves that controversy and not wrestling creates ratings)
-Isn't it ironic that the biggest ratings came from the Attitude Era where Vince Russo was in charge. Since then the ratings were dropping more and more.
-Somebody mentioned PPV Buyrates being lower and yes that is true. The TV Audience is different than the PPV Audience. PPV audiences do want straight up wrestling while TV Audiences want Crash TV.

So in conclusion:
-TNA was doing something right at the end of last year because the episode where James Mitchell reveals James Mitchell's secret was also the one that scored the biggest viewing audience.
-I am saying that you need more character development, and storylines than you have now. While fans on the IWC didn't like it, the casual fan tuned in to see it. WRESTLING DOESN'T DRAW RATINGS LIKE ENTERTAINMENT DOES!!!

 

[FromTheSouth]

Ok, so I love TNA. I think as a weekly wrestling show, Impact! rivals Raw, and some weeks is better.

Audioslave, I will agree with you, however, that some of their storylines are shit. Jay Lethal is stupid. He did an OK impression of Macho, but there was no reason to make it his gimmick. The Thanksgiving party was funny. Thanksgiving is a throwaway show, so in my opinion, it is permissable. It made me laugh.

Audioslave notes:
Any promotion that has storylines that are COMPETENTLY BOOKED with LOGICAL STORYLINES together with some level of drama and intrigue will draw. Combine that with a good deal of wrestling action and you'll have a successful show.

You, sir, are 100% right. I think TNA does a great job of slow burning stories. AJ and Karen has been going on for a while. The problem is, once they get a start, they just run out of TV time to complete the story. So we get three weeks off of an angle because they start twelve angles and finish three. I love the slow burn, but there needs to be week to week continuity. I need to tune in knowing that I am going to find out who show JR, so to speak, or at least a clue or two. Sometimes, there is just too much going on. I believe LAX proclaimed 2008 their year, and then weren't on TV the next week. If that's not true, it sounds like something TNA would do.

And it's hard to hate on TNA for misusing guys when Shelton is a jobber and Elijah Burke is MIA. WWE is far worse about misusing guys. They pushed Jeff Hardy perectly. I haven't heard anyone that over since The Ultimate Warrior. (Austin, Rock, HHH were superover, but always fighting each other, so the crowd was split, EVERYONE cheers Hardy) But, talented guys like Lashley are fighting over shaving heads, Big Show is fighting Floyd Mayweather instead of battling Kane as the two big guys who work the best. Kane is a great worker, not just for a big guy, but in general, and he wasn't being used at all, except in an Umaga putting guys over way for a long time. Wang is busy carrying Deuce and Domino when he could be feuding with Shelton, Burke, even Morrison. Tell me those matches wouldn't be awesome. At least TNA has the X division so guys like Petey that can move, get paired up with guys of similar styles. Styles make fights, and Abyss vs. AJ is just as stupid as Khali vs. Jamie Noble.

I will credit Russo because the segments are well written, and the show flows in and of itself. It's just that the week to week doesn't always flow. That isn't Russo's fault. He is told what to write. The storylines usually have continuity, they just don't get shown consistently.

Kurt Angle has multiple storylines. One (AJ and Karen) was ignored while he was training for Joe. That angle should have been played off as a distraction, costing Kurt the title. Instead, it was ignored, and then suddenly, what's going on with you and my wife. Russo can't be blamed for that. If Dixie and Jeff say show Kurt and Joe training for a shoot fight, then Russo has to write that. The problem is, AJ is fucking Kurt's wife, and during "training" Kurt busts Tomko open, and not AJ.

 

[Talon_DR]

Well, I worded that wrong:

I was trying to say wrestling doesn't draw ratings like entertainment does. Thank you for being so accepting of my mistake Audioslave. While we are talking about you let's get to what you had to say.

-Why would I stop watching something that I like? I order all the TNA PPVs (unlike you probably). I watch iMPACT for the storyline development and shorter matches while I watch PPVs for the wrestling. What would make more sense is if you stopped watching TNA because you obviously hate it so much.

-What I will agree with you on is that TNA has a lack of booking ability. That is my biggest gripe with the company second to lack of hype and the state of the X Division today.

-Sounds like the wrestling you like is Ring of Honor. I invite you to stop watching TNA and start watching Ring of Honor. TNA and ROH have been around as long as each other. Who has the TV Deal? Not the WRESTLING COMPANY

-TNA's wrestling doesn't suck. WWE's wrestling doesn't suck, it's just a matter of taste. TNA has some very good wrestling at times when given the time to do what they do.

-The matches are convoluted I agree with that but it is nice to see TNA think outside the box while companies like WWE and ROH are repeating concepts that were innovative years ago.

-Why do you have so much trouble understanding TNA Matches and Storylines. If you would like I will explain them to you. However just because you don't have enough intelligence to get the concepts don't blame TNA. TNA should be like WWE and present very simple storylines for very simple minded people. No offense to the simple minded people.

-Their storylines are garbage even by wrestling standards. What are wrestling standards? Please explain that to me. If you mean by traditionalist wrestling views then that would make more sense but TNA isn't a traditional company. Traditionalist fans don't get TNA because it isn't like how things were in wrestling when they were growing up. TNA is using the Sports Entertainment that made the Attitude Era so popular. I challenge you to think outside your standards for wrestling and "Cross the Line" per say

-TNA is building stars for the future. They are planting seeds. How many midcarders does TNA have that aren't squashed by main eventers. How many midcarders does WWE have that are squashed by main eventers? Come on Randy Orton and John Cena beat nearly the entire Raw Roster. Triple H and Mr. Kennedy came close to beating the entire ECW roster. That shouldn't happen.

-Abusive Husband (signs of a heel-check), someone who beats up someone elses kid (signs of a heel- check), The most powerful family in TNA holding a Thanksgiving Party (that would NEVER happen in the real world because Holiday Parties are outlawed). Angle's character wasn't screwed up Audioslave. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he wasn't used right.

-The two holiday parties were for enjoyment purposes and were there to entertain and that's it. TNA once again did something not seen anywhere else and of course you crapped on it.

-Things like this only hurt TNA because fans, who think they know how someone should be booked, crap all over the product when in reality they should be along for the ride enjoying what they can. Fans are supposed to add to the product, not take away from it.

-Don't use my name in vain.

-Don't act like you know me. I like wrestling as much as you do. This isn't what I like, it's what the majority of TNA fans like and what draws fans to the product. TNA tried the serious pure wrestling approach and as history tells us, it doesn't work. They are trying it again and it is only hurting ratings.

-TNA has the fans of wrestling because of their ability to put on great wrestling and the occasional great wrestling matches. TNA tries to limit the great wrestling to PPVs and samples on TV. Fans of wrestling are going to tune in as long as TNA offers it but now they have to attract fans they aren't getting.

-Just because Marty2Hotty and MissKim don't agree with you or like the same things you do doesn't mean they're idiots or wrong for that matter. TNA offers quite a bit of variety which should suit many different fans.

-Now before you jump down my throat try and see it from my point of view. It is hard for certain people to look from other people's points of view.

-Now I will go and edit my previous post!

 

[FromTheSouth]

The true test of TNA's logic will be the events of Booker's heel turn. If Russo is as bad as some people make him out to be, Roode and Booker will be teaming together, or friends in the next few weeks. If TNA is smart, someone will calm Booker, and he will be a face again.

 

[Talon_DR]

From what I read on TNAWrestling.com, Booker T and Team 3D were still talking trash about Roode. I don't see Booker teaming with him soon but yes it would be crappy after all that went on.

 

[gg inferno]

don't mind audioslave, guys. he usually comes into the forum and spits his anti-russo and tna rants every once in awhile and tries to come across as some know it all that reports his opinions like they're stone cold facts. mind you, he's the same guy that once spoke of the brilliant booking of hornswaggle.

 

[dirtyshubb]

I always hate the argument about their stories being too complicated, I have never had a problem following them! I read about people saying that they have to go back and view the segments again to understand, well to me that says more about you than it does TNA.

And the whole "Casual fans wont understand and tune out" thing is stupid, yes you want to get as many viewers as you can but that shouldnt mean lowering your product to such a level just to satisfy to people who cant get their head around things that really are not that difficult to understand.

 

[gg inferno]

I always hate the argument about their stories being too complicated, I have never had a problem following them! I read about people saying that they have to go back and view the segments again to understand, well to me that says more about you than it does TNA.

And the whole "Casual fans wont understand and tune out" thing is stupid, yes you want to get as many viewers as you can but that shouldnt mean lowering your product to such a level just to satisfy to people who cant get their head around things that really are not that difficult to understand.

good post. i wrote about that topic in one of my articles. seriuously, can you imagine how dumb you would sound to somebody that doesn't watch wrestling if you told them you get confused watching the show?

 

[dirtyshubb]

It seems that the main thing people complain about being difficult to understand are the stories and the rules for new gimmick matches.

Now with the stories i can understand people not being happy if things are not explained or followed up on very well, that is a fair point to argue but if you just cant follow them than seriously how can you blame TNA when many other people follow them with ease?

With the gimmick matches again if you just dont like the idea of the match itself than fine, thats everyones right to have their own opinion but once again i have never been there thinking "I dont get this, so that means its crap!".

I just think there are many people in this world that cant grasp the concept that just because you dont get something it doesnt mean its rubbish or that "Its too complicated" just that maybe YOU dont understand and that really isnt their (TNA in this case) problem.

 

[psykohurricane]

I always hate the argument about their stories being too complicated, I have never had a problem following them! I read about people saying that they have to go back and view the segments again to understand, well to me that says more about you than it does TNA.

And the whole "Casual fans wont understand and tune out" thing is stupid, yes you want to get as many viewers as you can but that shouldnt mean lowering your product to such a level just to satisfy to people who cant get their head around things that really are not that difficult to understand.

Don't take this the wrong way but i do think they would simplify there storylines a little bit and not relie on complicated gimmick matches all the time to get their point across then maybe the would get new fans to watch there show and PPV. Have been a wrestling fans for 20 years now and have been watching TNA since the vwery beginning and i still don'T get some of the stuff that'S going on sometimes. Even after i watch it a couple of time more i still don'T get why i'm supposed to care about these guys.

 

[Audioslave]

I wish some of you would fucking learn the formula.

Read > Comprehend > Post.

None of you do that. What you all do is:

Read > Spin / Skew What Was Said > Post.

And again I suddenly realize why I don't post in the TNA forums that often anymore.

I didn't say anything about their storylines being convoluted and overly complicated, I said that their gimmick matches were. Most of the ones they've tried coming up with since Russo arrived, at least. Ultimate X is great and I'm sure Terrordome is good. What they have in common is that they're all basic, easy-to-understand and explain match concepts.

King Of The Mountain is another example of a convoluted match they do. You've got what? 5 or 6 guys in there? Then you need to pin the guy, he goes to a penalty box and then and only then the guy who made the pin can climb up and put the belt or whatever and suspend it? I'm surprised Russo hasn't done this match before an actual ladder match.

Sounds like the wrestling you like is Ring of Honor. I invite you to stop watching TNA and start watching Ring of Honor. TNA and ROH have been around as long as each other. Who has the TV Deal? Not the WRESTLING COMPANY

I don't care for Ring of Honor, because they lack any sort of compelling stories and I don't feel like shelling out so much money for their product. The last thing I remember really enjoying was Danielson/Morishima. The feud was hot, the action was pretty good and their matches were pretty fucking intense.

Also I'm not one of those ZOMG BARE BONES WRESTLING NO STORIES type of fans. I want the wrestling, with good stories, rivalries and feuds. Not the ones with the overabundance of stupidity that TNA's carries.

Going the "neeneeer neeeneer ROH ain't got a TV deal, so who is the greatest now suckerrr" route is stupid. ROH is a small promotion and if I'm not mistaken Gabe's acknowledged that they're a niche product. Any sort of growth outside of their internet business model will take time. They're not backed by a big money interest and they don't have the dough to burn on a venture that won't increase their profits. To get on TV they would likely have to pay for it and even if they didn't, they'd likely get no revenue from it.

Abusive Husband (signs of a heel-check), someone who beats up someone elses kid (signs of a heel- check),

And to boot, it was right after Benoit strangled his wife and murdered their child. T-N-A! T-N-A!

 

[Talon_DR]

It is probably a nice thing that you don't come on the TNA Forums as often.

Once again, if you would like me to explain any of the matches that TNA offers, please let me know and I would be happy to do so. As a matter of fact:
http://tnawrestling101.proboards57.com/index.cgi?board=matches&action=display&thread=6

King of the Mountain is a cool match. A reverse Ladder Match. To simplify, one can hang the belt only after he qualifies. To qualify you have to beat someone else by pinfall or submission, sending them to the Penalty Box. Be careful, if you are pinned or submitted, you will be in the Penalty Box yourself.

ZOMG, the Danielson/Morishima feud was HAWT. So Hot I could die. You must be really devoted to the Art of Wrestling huh. I do have to admit that those matches between those two GENERIC Wrestlers were..how you say...long. I am glad we identified your problem!

(snooze) Let's offer the fans straight up wrestling. Generic Wrestler A vs Generic Wrestler B in a Generic Wrestling Match. A hates B and we C three G's and the manager interferes.

I do say I am happy that you like basic formulaic wrestling that has been done for what over 50+ years. When a fan has seen so much simplicity they get bored and look for A) A Soap Opera that Pro Wrestling doesn't provide or B) TNA Wrestling.

Exactly, ROH is a niche product. Why do you think he said that? Its because it's simple wrestling. What once was the popular trend is now the niche. TNA offers what many casual fans want..

I am so sorry you got offended over a STORYLINE! You know wrestling is staged right. Kurt Angle didn't really attack Sting Jr. Sting never slapped Karen Angle. I bet Kurt doesn't actually make his daughter carry his bags for him.

I know you want wrestling companies to walk on their toes for the remainder of their tenure but that doesn't happen. I will make sure to e-mail TNA so they make sure not to offend you. I bet they are so apologetic. Just ask Glen!

 

[gg inferno]

what would an example of a "simple storyline" be?

 

[Talon_DR]

A simple storyline would likely be Face Wrestler vs Heel Wrestler over a title. WWE mostly does "simple" storylines. They are the storylines that have no substance where you can pretty much see the feud being set up for a PPV and you could miss TV because nothing in the storyline/feud progresses

 

[Talon_DR]

A) Hmmm, I touched a nerve. I am SOO sorry for offending you. I promise I will never do it again.

B) I was a huge fan of WCW in 1997-2001 good and bad storylines and not. This argument isn't about what I like it's about what draws ratings or what everybody likes. You named some very good storylines that I remember but you have to get it through you mind (will happen rather quick with nothing in the way) and understand that was more than 11 years ago. The business was revolutionized since then. What drew ratings then doesn't draw ratings now. If your suggesting that TNA do what WCW did in 1998 I am for it, but many casual fans like the Soap Opera, so they likely won't be for it.

C) Russo doesn't know how to add depth to character without a filter? What is wrong with a filter? How do you know Russo doesn't have some sort of filter? However you do not know any of this because you are only as smart as TNA allows you to be. Remember Petey Williams, Sonjay Dutt, AJ Styles, James Storm, Robert Roode and so many others before Russo got ahold of them, they had no depth.

D) This WCW route has me interested. Tell me how you would take TNA in that direction?

E) Benoit murdered his family by choking them to death. How is Kurt who yells at his wife and who attacks someones son any reflection of the Benoit thing. TNA needs action and violence. This heated up the feud which is what it was supposed to do.

 

[misskim]

what would an example of a "simple storyline" be?

Disco! A simple storyline is where two wrestlers (or maybe three) feud to win the belt or dislike each other because of a reason which is easily understandable to the audience. For example:

The latest main event feud with Kurt, Scott and Samoa is a GREAT example of a simple storyline.

Scott wanted the belt, Kurt wanted the belt, Joe did not want to lose the belt, simple as heck and it had me glued.

A example of a bad storyline is the last months main story lines where AJ was with the Kurt Angle group and Samoa Joe was in a suit and a bunch of crap happened. I have no clue what that storyline was about but I think it might have been that Joe wanted a contract. It wasn't compelling at the least and I didn't watch it, there were too many players. Also the storyline with the teams leading up to Lockdown was way too cluster****ed.

The whole womens feud has been great and easy from day one where Gail won the belt too.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'm starting to think that TNA's storylines aren't so much overly complicated, but more just too long. It seems to me that a lot of the storylines and feuds take months to come to their final match. Steiner vs Joe seems like it is now over, and that to me is a great break. It went on for about two months, there was the final match, and now it is over. It was a nice break to see one that didn't take months to go through, like the Roode-Booker feud, which seemed like it could have been blown off numerous times. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come.

 

[misskim]

I don't think long storylines are nessecerily bad but they have to be good AND they have to be simple so that a new viewer can easily get into them and understand them. I wouldn't mind if Scott feuded some more with Joe for example, but it has to be simple.

Take Stone Cold vs McMahon, that storyline dragged on FOREVER! And that storyline basicly made WWE beat WCW. And it was an easy story, Stone Cold had problems with his evil boss and kicked his ass.

TNA can't continue to have story lines where someones mom had a sex operation and a wrestler crashed his car into her car and now her/his wrestler son wants money from the other guy to pay for the car while having his dad/mom in drag managing him for a qualifying match where they have to wrestle while being in wheelchairs and blindfolded for the main event at next PPV where it will be a "Blindfolded wheelchair extreme get the pole match"