TNA Taking Shots at WWE

[XgringolocoX]

Every TV taping and PPV in the same tiny sound stage makes them look bush league, not the jokes. But Y 2 Jake was right, it is the fat kid making fun of the popular kid.
Like WWEs shows at the moment or not they are the top dog. That aint gonna change any time soon.
TNA shouldn't acknowledge WWE. They need to broadcast that they are the ONLY wrestling to watch on Thursdays and PPV. More energy into making themselves the shit, instead of trying to throw it into fan. There will be no war. TNA will not benefit from a war, they'll perish. That's not a crack on TNA, just reality.
TNA is the fly, WWE is the fly swatter. Avoid the swatter TNA.

 

[oldschool123]

you almost made a good point. you lost me at Kurt Angle though. he's a former WWE guy and the best in the world at what he does.

consistency, man. either you allow WWE guys to go to TNA and make a living entertaining the fans, or you don't.

lest we forget that WWE takes their guys from other places too. they took Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Saturn & Malenko from WCW before the purchase. after the purchase, they took everybody they could including Goldberg, Steiner, DDP, Storm, Booker T, etc. the WWE also took guys from ECW before the purchase in the form of Rhino, Raven, Dudley Boys, etc. and now WWE is taking guys from TNA in the forms of Consequences Creed and Low-Ki.

every company does it. and sometimes not by choice (wrestlers jump ship for more exposure, lighter schedule, more money, etc) and sometimes the company lets a wrestler go (drug issues, backstage issues, injury, lack of direction, etc) and then those wrestlers go to another promotion. it's been happening since the beginning. don't just slam TNA for it. slam all the companies that do it, which would be everybody.

The difference is that most of the former WWE guys in TNA are considered "WWE rejects".

When the WWE took Jericho, Benoit and Guerrero from WCW it wasn't because they couldn't cut it in WCW. Not only that but WWE made them into superstars.

I think either Busch league or bush league are acceptable.

 

[Rafather]

The script writers made Kaz look like an idiot as the Universe does include the Galaxy, in fact it has over a billion galaxies. About as many wrestlers the WWE could put over Kaz.

Other then that, the small jabs TNA launches at WWE were funny at the beginning but now, to me, are getting old. If TNA wants to be a real competitor then they need to start producing on their own two feet and stop writing around the WWE. They were starting to do it with Fortune the ranking system with Angle, dropping The Band, dropping J Lethal's MachoMan, and dropping the HoF Ring. But now they are putting that on the back burner yet again for a One Night Stand rip off, another jab at the WWE. None of this is improving their ratings or bringing in more fans. It doesn't compare to when there was a real competition between WCW and WWE as both of them were evenly matched.

TNA should take a page out of StrikeForce's book with trying to build a brand. Strikeforce doesn't take pot shots at the UFC and are building up. They are making deals with big fighters over the UFC and started a women's division. The UFC is taking notice and have started to put themselves in interviews by calling StrikeForce and other promotions minor league.

raf

raf

 

[shattered dreams]

I understand what you are saying and you're right they shouldn't care about what WWE marks think (because marks are marks and they will defend their company no matter how bad it is) but they should learn to keep their mouths shut once in a while and just worry about themselves. When TNA takes a shot at WWE, they are only playing to about 10% of their audience, 90% couldn't give 2 shits. Like I said before, even though a couple of fans think its funny, it makes you look minor league. The best way to take a jab at someone is to beat them at their own game. They aren't getting any more fans by taking jabs at WWE, but in turn they might lose some.

Where are you getting your "stats" from? If someone is going to quit watching TNA simply because Kaz said TNA Galaxy then they never were going to watch anyway. The people that do not care probably do not even get the references. The average fan is oblivious to these things and even if they understood couldn't care less. Only IWC types care about these comments. Most IWC WWE marks are not exactly in TNA's fanbase.

Like one of the posters said, its like the orioles making fun of the Yankees. The Orioles are in no position to make fun of the Yankees, their organization sucks. If they Orioles constantly took shots at the Yankees, they would look like minor league fools to everyone else except die hard Oriole fans, they wouldn't gain fans, but they might lose support from others that are on the fence about cheering for that particular club (even though their record wouldn't help matters either). There have been many clubs and athletes that have lost a lot of support for this very reason. The best way for the Orioles to stick it to the Yankees would be to win the division, not badmouth the shit out of them.

Actually, whenever organizations are large and successful they tend to have a large anti-whatever they are crowd. There are a lot of Yankee fans and a lot of Yankee hating fans. Those fans do root for the orioles when they play the yankees. Those fans would love for an oriole to call the yankees out on something stupid they did. Just look at what happened when Braden had his little situation with Arod. He got more press over that than his perfect game. Yankees fans were never going to root for the orioles, or even the A's, so who cares what they think. A player or team can pickup the haters and the neutrals do not care about what either one does so no harm there.

The cool kid doesn't make fun of others because he doesn't have to, he has friends and has better things to do with his time (WWE). The unpopular kid sits in the corner and makes fun of everyone and everything because he tries to hard, and because he tries to hard, nobody likes him (TNA) except the other unpopular kids that are the same way.

So in this analogy are the WWE fans the losers that suck up to the cool kid in a desperate attempt to leach on to his success and not be the unpopular kids they really are? I guess it makes sense the popular kid would make his unpopular lackeys fight his battles for him so he can maintain his "image." All I know is that based on what I see on here WWE marks are 300 billion times more guilty of making fun of the opposition than impact does of WWE. So to me it seems a tad hypocritical to have such a huge problem with such actions. I assume their argument is that in their case it is "justified." My point is that justified is in the eye of the beholder and in the eyes of people that actually enjoy/support TNA I suspect the majority feel what TNA does is justified and amusing.

 

[BestForTheBusinesso9]

Just a quick note, Bush League is a pretty commonly used baseball term that began with lesser minor league teams that had bushes all around the fields. In more modern terms though, It has been referred to more as Busch League because of the former Busch Series in Nascar. Still have the same meaning. Even better than correcting someone who puts themselves high and mighty in a forum is correcting someone who thinks they are correcting someone.

 

[mr_dna]

I Do think it makes TNA look Cheap and minor because TNA aint competition for WWE. You Say WCW did it & WWE did it to WCW but they were haveing a rating battle and @ competition TNA is nothing not even a blip on WWE Radar and if TNA ever figure that out they might start to grow instead of raiseing the almost dead wrestlers to try and gain rateing . I Find ROH a better product then TNA , ROH is what TNA started out as BHAB (Before Hogan And Bishoff) TNA Now is a cheap WWF Attitude era rip off and a very bad one at that

 

[InuJoshua]

Where are you getting your "stats" from? If someone is going to quit watching TNA simply because Kaz said TNA Galaxy then they never were going to watch anyway. The people that do not care probably do not even get the references. The average fan is oblivious to these things and even if they understood couldn't care less. Only IWC types care about these comments. Most IWC WWE marks are not exactly in TNA's fanbase.



Actually, whenever organizations are large and successful they tend to have a large anti-whatever they are crowd. There are a lot of Yankee fans and a lot of Yankee hating fans. Those fans do root for the orioles when they play the yankees. Those fans would love for an oriole to call the yankees out on something stupid they did. Just look at what happened when Braden had his little situation with Arod. He got more press over that than his perfect game. Yankees fans were never going to root for the orioles, or even the A's, so who cares what they think. A player or team can pickup the haters and the neutrals do not care about what either one does so no harm there.



So in this analogy are the WWE fans the losers that suck up to the cool kid in a desperate attempt to leach on to his success and not be the unpopular kids they really are? I guess it makes sense the popular kid would make his unpopular lackeys fight his battles for him so he can maintain his "image." All I know is that based on what I see on here WWE marks are 300 billion times more guilty of making fun of the opposition than impact does of WWE. So to me it seems a tad hypocritical to have such a huge problem with such actions. I assume their argument is that in their case it is "justified." My point is that justified is in the eye of the beholder and in the eyes of people that actually enjoy/support TNA I suspect the majority feel what TNA does is justified and amusing.

But what makes TNA justified? What did WWE do to them besides run an opposing wrestling organization? Justification implies that they have a strong need to do so and/or that they were provoked, so what reason would that be?

The point isn't what WWE fans do, what TNA fans do or what Yankee/Oreole fans do. It's what the organization does.

While it is true that TNA marks would get a kick out of it, logic tells you that the new viewer... you know... the people TNA so desperately needs, would be more likely to try out TNA, see how desperate some of these comments make them seem, and would be more inclined to change the channel. Hell, I've been watching TNA off and on for 5 years and I almost want to change the channel when needless phrases like, "TNA Galaxy" are thrown around.

That's part of the reason TNA has trouble attracting new fans; seperating themselves from the WWE. While they attack the WWE, are the potential new viewers learning who Kaz is? Why they should care about him? What makes him compelling to watch? Of course not. He just sounds bitter at a company that the average fan doesn't even know he's worked for before.

Like I said, the occaisional jab is fine. When done in jest, it can be amusing or even entertaining. When they're going out of their way to point out guest hosts or mentioning the "TNA Galaxy," it looks bad to the average viewer. So keep in mind, while TNA marks are slapping their knee laughing about how awesome it was that TNA totally burned the WWE with their remarks, the new viewer is probably finding something better to watch. That might not be the exact scenario, but the ratings show that something is wrong somewhere...

 

[The Bad Guy]

I really don't have a problem with TNA and I do ultimately want to see them succeed because competition is good in anything, especially wrestling. Right now though, their product is god-awful. Granted, they do have their arms tied behind their back to a certain extent because of the size of the respective companies, but that doesn't excuse their awful writing and equally awful decision making. I have been and will continue to be patient with them, at least for a little while, but that patience will run out eventually. At some point they're gonna have to either sh*t or get off the pot in terms of where their product is going. If not, then they will be gone. That is just the God's honest truth.

What annoys the hell out of me though are TNA fans/marks. You guys are just nuts. Your like the gothic, anti-social kids in school who think you're so much cooler and/or smarter than everybody else just because your going against the norm. Hey, you don't like WWE, we get it, but that doesn't mean those of us that do are blind sheep that are hypnotized by Vince McMahon. TNA is in no way, shape, or form better than WWE right now. And anybody who says they are, or even that they are comparable, simply has an anti-WWE agenda that they're trying to carry out. That doesn't mean that the WWE is perfect or without flaws, but it has a whole hell of a lot more going for it right now than TNA. If you try to convince me otherwise, then you're either simple or stupid. Take your pick.

 

[amishpyrate]

I find it funny for the fact that it really bends the wwe fanatics out of shape. I mean, I didn't care when wcw and wwe were doing in it back in the day, why would I care now. (although Oklahoma did bug me, thats making fun of a condition more than a man) The reason they say stuff like that is to try and get people talking.... since this thread is already on page 4, I'd say it did its job. Thats free advertising brother, epecially if they are talking about it on other sites. Who was it that said controversy creates cash....................

 

[Optimist Prime]

I really don't have a problem with TNA and I do ultimately want to see them succeed because competition is good in anything, especially wrestling. Right now though, their product is god-awful. Granted, they do have their arms tied behind their back to a certain extent because of the size of the respective companies, but that doesn't excuse their awful writing and equally awful decision making. I have been and will continue to be patient with them, at least for a little while, but that patience will run out eventually. At some point they're gonna have to either sh*t or get off the pot in terms of where their product is going. If not, then they will be gone. That is just the God's honest truth.

How is WWE's storylines much better? I don't quite understand. It's been the same boring song and dance for the past decade almost. They milk a feud for 6 months to a year...sometimes even longer...and it's never anything interesting. How is that much better? Can somebody please tell me?!?

What annoys the hell out of me though are TNA fans/marks. You guys are just nuts. Your like the gothic, anti-social kids in school who think you're so much cooler and/or smarter than everybody else just because your going against the norm. Hey, you don't like WWE, we get it, but that doesn't mean those of us that do are blind sheep that are hypnotized by Vince McMahon. TNA is in no way, shape, or form better than WWE right now. And anybody who says they are, or even that they are comparable, simply has an anti-WWE agenda that they're trying to carry out. That doesn't mean that the WWE is perfect or without flaws, but it has a whole hell of a lot more going for it right now than TNA. If you try to convince me otherwise, then you're either simple or stupid. Take your pick.

I don't hate WWE at all. I just, justifiably, think their product sucks beyond belief right now. I, like many others, grew up watching WWF as a kid. I owe them for a good portion of my childhood entertainment. But that doesn't justify them being able to put out dogshit...especially when they have the resources to make it so much better. They have the resources to make themselves FAR BETTER before TNA would be able to. Yet all of these anti-TNA drones are crying their eyes out asking why TNA isn't improving their product?? At the VERY LEAST, it's the same as WWE's. What's the difference? Tell me. Please. I'd really like to know.

I just think it's funny that a good amount of people are looking for a low budget company to expand and change and improve everything they have...while the company they like, which an unlimited amount of more resources, doesn't have to. When they literally put out the same product.

Boggles my mind and I'll never understand it...

 

[The Bad Guy]

How is WWE's storylines much better? I don't quite understand. It's been the same boring song and dance for the past decade almost. They milk a feud for 6 months to a year...sometimes even longer...and it's never anything interesting. How is that much better? Can somebody please tell me?!?



I don't hate WWE at all. I just, justifiably, think their product sucks beyond belief right now. I, like many others, grew up watching WWF as a kid. I owe them for a good portion of my childhood entertainment. But that doesn't justify them being able to put out dogshit...especially when they have the resources to make it so much better. They have the resources to make themselves FAR BETTER before TNA would be able to. Yet all of these anti-TNA drones are crying their eyes out asking why TNA isn't improving their product?? At the VERY LEAST, it's the same as WWE's. What's the difference? Tell me. Please. I'd really like to know.

I just think it's funny that a good amount of people are looking for a low budget company to expand and change and improve everything they have...while the company they like, which an unlimited amount of more resources, doesn't have to. When they literally put out the same product.

Boggles my mind and I'll never understand it...

Like I said, WWE isn't perfect. Some of their storylines are bad, but that doesn't make TNA better. TNA hasn't even had a single, consistent storyline in 6 months (well, maybe, Brother Ray and Jesse Neal, but big deal). I realized you're tired of WWE, but come on you have to have more intelligence than to honestly tell me you're impressed with TNA. I mean what are they trying? EV 2.0????? I just can't wait to shell out $50 and watch Tommy Dreamer vs. Raven. Please.

Meanwhile, the NEXUS angle has obviously been very good in WWE, Bret Hart's thing with Vince was ok leading up to Wrestlemania, HBK vs. Undertaker was good for the second year in a row, and now they're hitting the ground running with Shaemus and The Miz as the faces of the of company beside Randy Orton and John Cena. WWE has a formula and it works. I hope TNA finds their niche to compete with them, but right now it just aint happening.

 

[InuJoshua]

How is WWE's storylines much better? I don't quite understand. It's been the same boring song and dance for the past decade almost. They milk a feud for 6 months to a year...sometimes even longer...and it's never anything interesting. How is that much better? Can somebody please tell me?!?



I don't hate WWE at all. I just, justifiably, think their product sucks beyond belief right now. I, like many others, grew up watching WWF as a kid. I owe them for a good portion of my childhood entertainment. But that doesn't justify them being able to put out dogshit...especially when they have the resources to make it so much better. They have the resources to make themselves FAR BETTER before TNA would be able to. Yet all of these anti-TNA drones are crying their eyes out asking why TNA isn't improving their product?? At the VERY LEAST, it's the same as WWE's. What's the difference? Tell me. Please. I'd really like to know.

I just think it's funny that a good amount of people are looking for a low budget company to expand and change and improve everything they have...while the company they like, which an unlimited amount of more resources, doesn't have to. When they literally put out the same product.

Boggles my mind and I'll never understand it...

How are WWE's storylines different? They don't fight over HOF rings. Even if you say they weren't WWE's rings, (even though Flair made an obvious reference to his WWE induction before defending it against Abyss,) TNA doesn't have a Hall of Fame so they had to have been referencing someone that's not TNA.

They also never ran a whole pay per view dedicated to giving talent that were, "mistreated so badly by the opposing company." If Benoit closed an episode of Raw 10 years ago crying about how him and his friends were misused, I would have hated it as much then as I did now.

What's frustrating about TNA to me is that everything that made them unique when I liked their product over the WWE is gone now. Whether or not they're low budget, they have the tools to put together a good show. But then RVD went over AJ wil hardly any build. Joe goes missing for months at a time. Daniels and Petey Williams were released. The 6 sided ring is gone. The knockouts and X division are almost non-existant. The ONLY thing they have going for them right now IMO is the tag division, which is pretty damn entertaining right now.

As far as WWE, they have been stagnant for awhile, but they've improved greatly over the last year. They've put more of a focus back on tag team and women's wrestling, pushed many new people to the attention of the crowd, (Punk and the SES, Sheamus, Bourne, Swagger, Miz, DiBiase, Rhodes... they've all went from at best the upper mid card to main event in some capacity, even if it's a Raw or Smackdown ME.)

From what I see, WWE is taking steady strides forward while TNA is moving back, and it disappoints me. You might think it's the opposite and that's perfectly fine. It's just that on these forums, even if you're not "pro WWE" and just happen to be a wrestling fan who perfers it over TNA, and it's implied or outright said by TNA fans that you're either:

A) Unintelligent
B) Brainwashed
or
C) a Mark

Not saying that you said or meant that in your post, but speaking for myself, this attitude puts a fan who likes WWE more on the defensive. As I hope you can see, my opinion isn't just blind banter, but if that makes me a "blind mark" then so be it.

And one more thought... maybe some people are harder on TNA than WWE because they want TNA to succeed more? TNA has nowhere to go but up, so it's more disappointing to see TNA in a stagnant state when the potential they hold is limitless, where as the WWE is already at the top, so it's not as disappointing when the one at the top doesn't move any higher. Does that make sense?

 

[Optimist Prime]

Like I said, WWE isn't perfect. Some of their storylines are bad, but that doesn't make TNA better. TNA hasn't even had a single, consistent storyline in 6 months (well, maybe, Brother Ray and Jesse Neal, but big deal). I realized you're tired of WWE, but come on you have to have more intelligence than to honestly tell me you're impressed with TNA. I mean what are they trying? EV 2.0????? I just can't wait to shell out $50 and watch Tommy Dreamer vs. Raven. Please.

Nobody is saying TNA is "better." In fact, I've specifically said that the product is lacking. That being said...it's far more understandable for a company of TNA's size to be lacking in their product than it is for a company of WWE's size to be putting out the same nonsense. How many times can we watch John Cena fight for the World Title as if it was his first time or something? Evan Bourne is a main eventer now?? Rey Mysterio Jr. is the World HEAVYWEIGHT Champion??? This is better?!?

Meanwhile, the NEXUS angle has obviously been very good in WWE, Bret Hart's thing with Vince was ok leading up to Wrestlemania, HBK vs. Undertaker was good for the second year in a row, and now they're hitting the ground running with Shaemus and The Miz as the faces of the of company beside Randy Orton and John Cena. WWE has a formula and it works. I hope TNA finds their niche to compete with them, but right now it just aint happening.

The NEXUS angle COULD have been good. They clearly ruined it with their sympathetic speeches and such. Either they're a bunch of badasses who want to get their respect...or they're not. Why are they going back and forth with everything? WWE could have made them much more believable than they did. For that I feel it failed quite a bit. HBK and Undertaker was months ago and old news. They've both been out for quite a while and if that match wasn't on the Wrestlemania card the past 2 years...those would have been the two worst Wrestlemania's of all time. It's a fact.

WWE's formula is "trick the public". They don't need to improve their product because people like you will like any dribble they put in front of you. You've just proved it too.

 

[shattered dreams]

But what makes TNA justified? What did WWE do to them besides run an opposing wrestling organization? Justification implies that they have a strong need to do so and/or that they were provoked, so what reason would that be?

First, you should notice I am talking about "justified" as in the same justification you would give for poking at TNA later in this post.

The point isn't what WWE fans do, what TNA fans do or what Yankee/Oreole fans do. It's what the organization does.

Why is that not a valid discussion topic? Because it hurts the haters that prefer WWE's case. I am so sick of all of their have my cake and eat it too philosophies. You are saying that fans are justified in criticizing a product they often do not watch much, in an industry they have no experience in, more than a wrestling company is in making throwaway jokes about a competitor in the wrestling industry. Now you can argue they are both wrong but it is hard to take someone serious saying TNA is butch league for making jokes when that same person comes on here everyday and trashes everything about TNA.

While it is true that TNA marks would get a kick out of it, logic tells you that the new viewer... you know... the people TNA so desperately needs, would be more likely to try out TNA, see how desperate some of these comments make them seem, and would be more inclined to change the channel. Hell, I've been watching TNA off and on for 5 years and I almost want to change the channel when needless phrases like, "TNA Galaxy" are thrown around.

How does logic tell you that? In fact I doubt logic is your strong suit because in the same sentence you say TNA is desperate yet criticize them seeming it? How does a silly comment like that become so off putting? I just do not get it. People are acting like TNA is trashing WWE saying it sucks and whatnot. If they were doing that I would be against it. They are not. They are making a comment here and there joking around. Unless WWE is infalliable then they do things that are fair game for poking fun at. The problem is not the comments it is the people who think WWE does not do things worth criticizing.

Like I said, the occaisional jab is fine. When done in jest, it can be amusing or even entertaining. When they're going out of their way to point out guest hosts or mentioning the "TNA Galaxy," it looks bad to the average viewer. So keep in mind, while TNA marks are slapping their knee laughing about how awesome it was that TNA totally burned the WWE with their remarks, the new viewer is probably finding something better to watch. That might not be the exact scenario, but the ratings show that something is wrong somewhere...

How is TNA galaxy not a jab done in jest? WWE peeps take things way too seriously. Unless your opinion is the same thing as "average viewer" then I would like to know where this "info" is coming from. note: I said butch league just to see if it would get 10+ comments, I had an amusing story as to why that is the correct interpretation but it is not PG enough to tell since their are children as this discussion involves wwe fans.

 

[Optimist Prime]

How are WWE's storylines different? They don't fight over HOF rings. Even if you say they weren't WWE's rings, (even though Flair made an obvious reference to his WWE induction before defending it against Abyss,) TNA doesn't have a Hall of Fame so they had to have been referencing someone that's not TNA.

I actually asked how WWE's storylines were better. I wasn't looking for you to try and claim that "two wrongs make a right". The ring storyline was horrible. But what about some of WWE's storylines in the past and right now even. Do you think they've always had great storylines? Mae Young giving birth to a rubber glove? Stephanie McMahon marrying the Undertaker/Kane/Stone Cold/Triple H/anybody else? And now they have Evan Bourne main eventing?? EVAN BOURNE??

They also never ran a whole pay per view dedicated to giving talent that were, "mistreated so badly by the opposing company." If Benoit closed an episode of Raw 10 years ago crying about how him and his friends were misused, I would have hated it as much then as I did now.

Chris Benoit wasn't misused though. Chris Benoit sucked...and WCW knew it so they kept him down with the other boring personalities. WWE basically took all those WCW mid-carders who used to occupy the 8pm time slot...and tried to make them these prestigious wrestling pieces that they weren't. If anything, WWE misused them.

What's frustrating about TNA to me is that everything that made them unique when I liked their product over the WWE is gone now. Whether or not they're low budget, they have the tools to put together a good show. But then RVD went over AJ wil hardly any build. Joe goes missing for months at a time. Daniels and Petey Williams were released. The 6 sided ring is gone. The knockouts and X division are almost non-existant. The ONLY thing they have going for them right now IMO is the tag division, which is pretty damn entertaining right now.

So basically you want ECW back again and are whining because you can't have it because no business person wants to make simple bad business decisions that are easy to avoid?

As far as WWE, they have been stagnant for awhile, but they've improved greatly over the last year. They've put more of a focus back on tag team and women's wrestling, pushed many new people to the attention of the crowd, (Punk and the SES, Sheamus, Bourne, Swagger, Miz, DiBiase, Rhodes... they've all went from at best the upper mid card to main event in some capacity, even if it's a Raw or Smackdown ME.)

What focus is on the tag teams? They have TWO tag teams right now!! TWO!! and the women's wrestling? Cmon...get a pulse. They had no choice but to push these new people! What the hell else were they going to do? Unfortunately, the majority of those people have the personality of a dead corpse. I'd rather watch somebody get a root canal than watch the majority of those personalities. And no, TNA isn't filled with the best personalities either...but I'm again not saying TNA is better...I never did.

From what I see, WWE is taking steady strides forward while TNA is moving back, and it disappoints me. You might think it's the opposite and that's perfectly fine. It's just that on these forums, even if you're not "pro WWE" and just happen to be a wrestling fan who perfers it over TNA, and it's implied or outright said by TNA fans that you're either:

A) Unintelligent
B) Brainwashed
or
C) a Mark

Not saying that you said or meant that in your post, but speaking for myself, this attitude puts a fan who likes WWE more on the defensive. As I hope you can see, my opinion isn't just blind banter, but if that makes me a "blind mark" then so be it.

I'm not calling you a mark or anything. A name is a name...you can do whatever you want. I'm just proving my point, that's all. And it's a very good one. WWE isn't taking any steps forward. That's the thing. They have all these resources and they're pretty stagnant right now. Meanwhile, TNA is TRYING to move forward...but DOESN'T have all those resources...and are getting shunned for it. That's the problem I have with people.

And one more thought... maybe some people are harder on TNA than WWE because they want TNA to succeed more? TNA has nowhere to go but up, so it's more disappointing to see TNA in a stagnant state when the potential they hold is limitless, where as the WWE is already at the top, so it's not as disappointing when the one at the top doesn't move any higher. Does that make sense?

I agree...and I hope you are right. And that is exactly my point. But all I'm asking is that you look FURTHER into perspective. It's much harder for the guy at the bottom to move up than it is for the guy who's been at the top...but is simmering down at mediocrity. That's all.

 

[InuJoshua]

First, you should notice I am talking about "justified" as in the same justification you would give for poking at TNA later in this post.

I don't see where I justified picking on TNA... except maybe needing more viewers, but isn't that true?

Why is that not a valid discussion topic? Because it hurts the haters that prefer WWE's case. I am so sick of all of their have my cake and eat it too philosophies. You are saying that fans are justified in criticizing a product they often do not watch much, in an industry they have no experience in, more than a wrestling company is in making throwaway jokes about a competitor in the wrestling industry. Now you can argue they are both wrong but it is hard to take someone serious saying TNA is butch league for making jokes when that same person comes on here everyday and trashes everything about TNA.

It's valid for discussion, but the conversation at hand was TNA attacking WWE, not fans attacking WWE. You changed the conversation to fit your point, which is a very weak way of getting your point across. If you want to talk about that, make another topic.

The fans are justified because they're paying for it and can do whatever they want. If they don't like what they pay for they have a reason to bash the WWE once they've found TNA. The company can do the same, but in what way are they justified? You avoided the question while trying to turn me into a mark. Good job...

And find one post of mine where I trash "everything" that TNA does. I consistantly praise their talent but trash thier booking decisions.

How does logic tell you that? In fact I doubt logic is your strong suit because in the same sentence you say TNA is desperate yet criticize them seeming it? How does a silly comment like that become so off putting? I just do not get it. People are acting like TNA is trashing WWE saying it sucks and whatnot. If they were doing that I would be against it. They are not. They are making a comment here and there joking around. Unless WWE is infalliable then they do things that are fair game for poking fun at. The problem is not the comments it is the people who think WWE does not do things worth criticizing.

Haha, resorting to flames. I'm just here to discuss wrestling because I love it. I'm actually training to become a wrestler. I don't have a bias, I just have a different opinion than yours. That doesn't make you or I wrong, and definately doesn't mean "logic isn't my strong suit." That's a laugh...

Do you not see that being desperate and showing it are completely different things? You can still keep your head up high while being down on the ground. I don't get what you're trying to say. If I was a new viewer of any show... say... Deal or No Deal... and they constantly made fun of Who Wants to be a Millionaire, I wouldn't like that and there would probably be quite a few people who wouldn't, unless I'm just weird and am 100% different from everyone on the planet. Maybe you wouldn't feel the same way, but that doesn't mean myself or anyone sharing my opinion is wrong.

How is TNA galaxy not a jab done in jest? WWE peeps take things way too seriously. Unless your opinion is the same thing as "average viewer" then I would like to know where this "info" is coming from. note: I said butch league just to see if it would get 10+ comments, I had an amusing story as to why that is the correct interpretation but it is not PG enough to tell since their are children as this discussion involves wwe fans.

It's in the context. Tazz making a joke on the side is different from Kaz using part of his promo time. Even if it was the smallest amount of time, it helps frame what Kaz is trying to get across and is still a waste in my opinion.

I'm sure you see that. Unlike you, I don't think you're inferior to me because we have different opinions, but all WWE fans must be children, so I must be wrong, right?

Nice try trying to make me look like a mark. I usually lurk these boards but the main reason I'm so active today is because I'm hyped to go to a local show and see... the MCMG! Ha, I'm the worst mark in the world.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Where are you getting your "stats" from? If someone is going to quit watching TNA simply because Kaz said TNA Galaxy then they never were going to watch anyway. The people that do not care probably do not even get the references. The average fan is oblivious to these things and even if they understood couldn't care less. Only IWC types care about these comments. Most IWC WWE marks are not exactly in TNA's fanbase.



Actually, whenever organizations are large and successful they tend to have a large anti-whatever they are crowd. There are a lot of Yankee fans and a lot of Yankee hating fans. Those fans do root for the orioles when they play the yankees. Those fans would love for an oriole to call the yankees out on something stupid they did. Just look at what happened when Braden had his little situation with Arod. He got more press over that than his perfect game. Yankees fans were never going to root for the orioles, or even the A's, so who cares what they think. A player or team can pickup the haters and the neutrals do not care about what either one does so no harm there.



So in this analogy are the WWE fans the losers that suck up to the cool kid in a desperate attempt to leach on to his success and not be the unpopular kids they really are? I guess it makes sense the popular kid would make his unpopular lackeys fight his battles for him so he can maintain his "image." All I know is that based on what I see on here WWE marks are 300 billion times more guilty of making fun of the opposition than impact does of WWE. So to me it seems a tad hypocritical to have such a huge problem with such actions. I assume their argument is that in their case it is "justified." My point is that justified is in the eye of the beholder and in the eyes of people that actually enjoy/support TNA I suspect the majority feel what TNA does is justified and amusing.

1st off, READ BETWEEN THE LINES DUDE.

Secondly, with my stats (if you could call it that) I was just making a point that TNA is never going to gain a fan in the world because they take jabs at the WWE, but they may lose some fairweather fans that turn it on once in a while because they can't seem to stop mentioning WWE every chance they get. I haven't watched a full iMPACT episode in a long time, but whenever I turn it on for 15 minutes they will take at least 1 jab at the WWE, EVERY SINGLE TIME. Its like when you make fun of anything, its not a big deal if you do it once in a while, but if you do it every day it gets tiresome and played out, over time people will get sick of hearing that shit. When you mention something like that as often as TNA does, its quite obvious they are way too concerned with what WWE is doing, plain and simple.

As in regards to my Yankee/Orioles remark I was just saying if you are going to CONSTANTLY (there's the key word there) make fun of an organization, people will get sick of hearing it and might even turn their backs on a team, not everyone is a hardcore fan, and the casual fan is easily persuaded to go to another team if they don't like what they see from the team they are currently cheering for (I've seen people turn their backs on teams for less). Your Braden/Arod example was 1 INCIDENT, not something that happens every single week THERE'S A DIFFERENCE.

Lastly, say whatever you want about the WWE suck-ups, but right now they are cheering for the better team that has a brighter future. WWE isn't constantly taking shots at TNA, its the other way around. Who the fuck cares if WWE fans take shots at TNA, they don't have a show that's on nationwide, they are complaining about TNA on the INTERNET on forums like this, to the IWC users like you and me, NOT TO MILLIONS OF FANS EVERY WEEK ON NATIONAL TELEVISION. This isn't about the fans, this is about the companies themselves. WWE doesn't take shots at TNA, TNA takes shots at the WWE, and TNA needs to stop taking shots at WWE and start worrying about themselves. Like I initially said, taking jabs once in a while isn't a big deal, but when you do it every week it makes you look bush league.

 

[InuJoshua]

I actually asked how WWE's storylines were better. I wasn't looking for you to try and claim that "two wrongs make a right". The ring storyline was horrible. But what about some of WWE's storylines in the past and right now even. Do you think they've always had great storylines? Mae Young giving birth to a rubber glove? Stephanie McMahon marrying the Undertaker/Kane/Stone Cold/Triple H/anybody else? And now they have Evan Bourne main eventing?? EVAN BOURNE??

Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying two wrongs make a right. And those reasons do show how WWE is different. Of course, WWE has had some terrible storylines as well, but in my opinion, they don't have anything going on now that's as bad as TNA.

And just like you get frustrated when people don't give TNA a chance, some WWE fans would get mad at the comment you made. Bourne is talented in the ring, and after years of complaining about how they don't push young, new talent, there are still complaints about Bourne main eventing even though it's seemingly what people asked for. I don't really care since it's your opinion, but I'm just trying to illustrate the opposite side of the coin.

Chris Benoit wasn't misused though. Chris Benoit sucked...and WCW knew it so they kept him down with the other boring personalities. WWE basically took all those WCW mid-carders who used to occupy the 8pm time slot...and tried to make them these prestigious wrestling pieces that they weren't. If anything, WWE misused them.

That's also opinion, just like my opinion that Benoit and Guerrero were some of the best ever and deserved more than they got in WCW.

Dreamer's rant bugged me since most of his friends got fired for drug use or being talentless without a chair or kendo stick in their hands according to the WWE, not picked off one by one for no reason like he made it sound. It's just marketing to drum up support for the show, I understand that. But it seems like some are taking it way too seriously.

So basically you want ECW back again and are whining because you can't have it because no business person wants to make simple bad business decisions that are easy to avoid?

I never said I wanted ECW back. ECW was a boatload of passion, blood, sweat and tears, but also a company full of mostly violence and spotfests rather than solid wrestling. With the exception of TNA being small, I don't know how they're even remotely correlated. Is this a grasp at breaking down my argument or am I just missing your point completely?

And no, I'm not whining, I'm giving reasons as to why I don't like TNA as much as I used to. I think that's fair game on a public forum. I wouldn't say you're whining just because you're opposing my argument, and I know it might be hard to seperate some people who are diehard WWE drones from people who have valid arguments, but please don't lump me in with them. I'd like to think I've provided at least a somewhat intelligent argument...

What focus is on the tag teams? They have TWO tag teams right now!! TWO!! and the women's wrestling? Cmon...get a pulse. They had no choice but to push these new people! What the hell else were they going to do? Unfortunately, the majority of those people have the personality of a dead corpse. I'd rather watch somebody get a root canal than watch the majority of those personalities. And no, TNA isn't filled with the best personalities either...but I'm again not saying TNA is better...I never did.

Two tag teams is more than they've had, although they REALLY need to get the ball rolling with new teams before they lose the momentum they've built.

They did have a choice to push the women, because only a few years ago, they didn't, plain and simple. Even though it's not the best, it's still an improvement in my eyes when you said there was none. Once again, it's opinion so you might not agree, but I think it's hard to argue that 5 minutes of diva screen time that doesn't involve bikinis or pillows is better than none if you're trying to build a credible division.

I'm not calling you a mark or anything. A name is a name...you can do whatever you want. I'm just proving my point, that's all. And it's a very good one. WWE isn't taking any steps forward. That's the thing. They have all these resources and they're pretty stagnant right now. Meanwhile, TNA is TRYING to move forward...but DOESN'T have all those resources...and are getting shunned for it. That's the problem I have with people.

I understand that, and my statement was meant for more general terms since it seems like WWE fans get bullied around here just because of their preference, (see the post above yours.)

I see your point about TNA trying to move forward, I just feel that WWE is moving forward more than TNA. As to why they're shunned, I explained that in the next quote...

I agree...and I hope you are right. And that is exactly my point. But all I'm asking is that you look FURTHER into perspective. It's much harder for the guy at the bottom to move up than it is for the guy who's been at the top...but is simmering down at mediocrity. That's all.

I've looked pretty far into perspective. I'm not one of the people who watched for 5 minutes in January and swore that the whole show sucked from top to bottom. You might like it more than I do, but that doesn't mean that I don't have a passion for wrestling and that I don't want them to succeed. Like you see high production values that get squandered by the WWE, I see talent that's squandered in TNA. Neither of us our wrong. We just look at them through different perspectives. We can respect that, right?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

If TNA wants to take shots at the WWE, let them. It's not as if they're remotely doing any damage to the WWE. More often than not, TNA winds up shooting themselves in the foot as much as they actually accomplish the mission of cracking jokes at the WWE. I guess that Tommy Dreamer's comments don't exactly qualify as jokes, but they don't necessarily have any validity coming from him as he's spent most of the last decade helping quash the ECW legacy while sucking from the WWE's tit at the same time. Kazarian is another example of someone not exactly having the credibility at this time to actually make fun of WWE and make it seem relevant, particularly when he jokes and then gets squashed by Rob Terry in 20 seconds half an hour later.

I sometimes wonder if the shots are attempts to somehow make the WWE return fire on the air and openly acknowledge that TNA exists. Does it make TNA look minor league? I dunno. As I said, the comments aren't causing any damage to the WWE. The only ones that seem to really get all that much from them are those with a negative opinion of WWE anyhow, so if TNA wants to use its time in taking shots, more power to them.

 

[vampirek]

I have to serious laugh at anyone thinking Taz simply said 'Vintage' to mock the WWE.... when in fact Tazz used it on Smackdown when with Cole. In all seriousness it was Taz who used the word first and was later used by Cole and then turned into a joke.
Even more funny is that Taz is friend of Cole, Lawler etc. Just look what happens when the WWE does a PPV Cole, Lawler, Striker mock each other all over it. So I don't see it as TNA mocking the WWE, but simply a friendly thing that would happen if Taz was in the WWE anyways.
The choking comment was different, however reflects what most feel about the subject. Taz isn't restrained by the WWE and can mock that decision. About time someone did.

 

[WWEIsLife2]

There obviously can't be too many "former" WWE fans that made the switch based on the ratings.

Look, I mean this stuff goes on in wrestling all the time, so I'm not going to get too worked up over it. What I find funny are these blind TNA fans, who watch TNA almost exclusively because they hate the WWE, that think little jabs like this on a show drawing a .9 rating are going to make a difference. I mean really?? Plus, who the f*ck is Kazarian?? I wouldn't recognize him if he came up to me on the street with a sign around his neck that had his name on it.

Vince McMahon could put TNA out of business tomorrow if he wanted to, so I don't think he's losing sleep over the fact that TNA made fun of the NEXUS angle (which is infinitely more interesting and over than any angle I've ever seen on TNA) or that they made fun of the term "WWE Universe."

And to IDR, what is so wrong with the WWE calling their fan base the WWE Universe? It is just a saying. My goodness, I don't know what the WWE did to some of you, but you will just look for any little thing to rip them about. It is no different than the Boston Red Sox fan base being "Red Sox Nation" or the Pittsburgh Steelers fan base being "Steeler Nation." The WWE, however, is an international brand with fans all over the world. Plus, "WWE Universe" sounds a lot better than "WWE Nation." If you take it any other way than that, then you are really grasping for straws like a fat lady in a milkshake store.

Couldn't have said it better myself Badguy. TNA taking the little jabs they do at WWE just makes them look even more pathetic than they are. When I heard Kaz make that comment about Nexus I thought to myself,Yeah and there Main Eventing Summerslam what are you doing? Oh right Jobbing and being a lacky for Ric Flair. I have no problem either with the WWE Universe term and Badguy is right the Red Sox & Steelers name their Fanbases so why can't WWE do it also? TNA should stop worrying about what WWE is doing,WCW made that mistake and look where they are and they should stop showing Dixie Dumbass on TV every 5 seconds.

 

[@smarkmouth]

Although I don't have a problem with the idea of the inter-promotional jabs, I almost feel TNA expects it to be a selling point. The days of TNA selling on the fact that "We're not WWE" are over, but the way they approach the jabs are beating that same dead horse.

The only time I ever want to hear the word "Galaxy" on Impact is when Chris Sabin claims that the Motor City Machine Guns are "the best tag team in the galaxy". That was gold!

 

[bullsgo]

I suppose you can call the TNA brand a bunch of jealous haters who haven't learned to hate the game and not the player.

Essentially, TNA is the WCW's Renegade to the WWE's Ultimate Warrior. That being said, would it have made sense for WCW's Renegade, a cardboard cut-out, to take jabs at the The Ultimate Warrior, the very character he imitated for a living? TNA is biting the hand that feeds it. Ironically, to attack WWE is to attack itself.

Quite simply, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. For a company that offers very little in terms of originality, TNA holds itself in high regards. It's like the biggest loser in the room not knowing he's a loser, and as a result is constantly hitting on all the hot chicks, it's laughable.

TNA's survival at this point, due to its lack of vision, is to become an extension of the WWE, an unofficial fourth brand,(RAW, SD, NXT, TNA) as you will. Furthermore, TNA is simply the angry bastard of the WWE: ignored, abused(i.e. Tommy Dreamer Speech), and used up. (Hogan, Flair, etc.)

If you put together a group of 1. has beens, 2. never will be's, and 3. almost but not quite's, together then you're going to have delusions, bitterness, pettiness and jealousy, which in TNA's case has spilled over into their product.

To me, the constant jabs at the obvious superior product shows the blatant frustration and envy of TNA in general. After all, they lack the patience, resources, and vision to build a unique product of their own, which forced them to become an off brand ala WWE lite.

The WWE is stale bread and lacks originality, but in the wrestling business they hold all the cards, they've built themselves into a company that will thrive on name recognition, intrigue, and past history alone. If anything TNA should divert attention away from the similar brand.

As it relates to this boards IMPACT PLAYERS, It's one thing to be supportive of your team; however, it becomes completely ridiculous and self destructive to justify its mismanagement and stupidity out of blind loyalty. For a while now i've witnessed this crew of yes men defend and spin every Hogan/Russo Carter , lame brain move. This is disgusting, politically charged, dumb, and misguided. Unless the IMPACT PLAYERS are paid operatives of Dixie Carter, they're showing their stupidity with each biased and predictable post.

It's fans like The Impact Players which keep both companies shoveling out crap to the masses. MARKS who will arrogantly defend incompetence are what's killing wrestling for the fans, not the WWE or Vince Russo but the stupid marks who defend their BS.

IMPACT PLAYERS, you are the Fox News to George Bush's republican agenda. Remember where that got this country?

The Impact Players are no more than a bunch of enablers who instead of critiquing the company truthfully they'll find a way to justify and spend every horrible, lame brained decision the company makes. The quintessential yes men, and the very same people who will lead to the demise of TNA.

PS: I am not Mark Madden. He has better things to do.

 

[shattered dreams]

I don't see where I justified picking on TNA... except maybe needing more viewers, but isn't that true?

It's valid for discussion, but the conversation at hand was TNA attacking WWE, not fans attacking WWE. You changed the conversation to fit your point, which is a very weak way of getting your point across. If you want to talk about that, make another topic.

If it is valid for discussion then why do you continually say I should not be talking about it? I did not change the conversation and never said one justified the other. In fact I specifically said they were not related. Remind me again why obsessing about ratings is not changing the conversation to fit your point? I would say WWE booking decisions is extremely off-topic but that is my opinion. I do not think either of us did anything wrong btw. It is called a discussion because you are supposed to branch into arguably related concepts. Also, how is the discussion about TNA "attacking" WWE. Talk about loaded rhetoric. This is about TNA making jokes about WWE. One of my main points is why do people think these jokes are some vicious assault on WWE. That is a crazy overraction IMO.

The fans are justified because they're paying for it and can do whatever they want. If they don't like what they pay for they have a reason to bash the WWE once they've found TNA. The company can do the same, but in what way are they justified? You avoided the question while trying to turn me into a mark. Good job...

How is anyone justified for anything? I did not realize there were rules for who you can and cannot make fun of. I was using justified facetiously in case you have not figured that out yet. Do comedians that make fun of people more famous than them deserve such criticisms as have been lobbied here? Often jokes are just jokes. Either they entertain you or not. You can laugh or not then move on. That is the end of it. There is no way the average fan obsesses about a 5 second throwaway comment here and there. There is no way that is the deciding force in many peoples decision to watch or not. If they feel that strongly the comment was so wrong then they were a hopeless mark for the otherside anyway.

And find one post of mine where I trash "everything" that TNA does. I consistantly praise their talent but trash thier booking decisions.

I do think I could have done a better job of explaining about half my post was directed at a more general audience and about half directly at you. You are not a hopeless mark by any means and much less ill-spirited than others. However, I think you are a victim of something you admit, getting entrenched in pro-wwe stances just because you are sick of people knocking the product. That is fine, just realize it creates a bias and there is no reason for TNA to tailor every aspect of their product to appease fans that prefer the other company. They are targeting fans of the last generation of wrestling watchers, not necessarily the current WWE fans. It just seems ridiculous to say TNA should not make their comments because they might ruffle the feathers of people that prefer WWE.

 

[oldschool123]

I find it funny for the fact that it really bends the wwe fanatics out of shape. I mean, I didn't care when wcw and wwe were doing in it back in the day, why would I care now. (although Oklahoma did bug me, thats making fun of a condition more than a man) The reason they say stuff like that is to try and get people talking.... since this thread is already on page 4, I'd say it did its job. Thats free advertising brother, epecially if they are talking about it on other sites. Who was it that said controversy creates cash....................

I don't think anybody is bent out of shape over it. People are just saying how annoying it is and how it shows TNA's obvious inferiority complex.