Nope. I was going to make a post about Hart and why he was a midcarder, then Swagger popped into my mind. Even as champ I never saw him as ME material.
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The WrestleZone Tournament Has Begun
- Thread starter Uncle Sam
- Start date
Nope. I was going to make a post about Hart and why he was a midcarder, then Swagger popped into my mind. Even as champ I never saw him as ME material.
TheOneBigWill
[This Space for Rent]
Once more:
Eddie beat season veteran Kurt Angle at the biggest show of the year.
Bret beat guys like HBK and Razor who weren't ready, a lot like him.
Two titles or not, Eddie got better opposition to chew on than Bret did in his first run.
All valid points, and I'm not disputing Eddie's lack of a title reign. I am, however, pointing out the less significant value of it being in a Two World Champion system..
Indicating where I feel had it of only been 1-World title, Guerrero wouldn't be your Champion. Benoit would be. Guerrero may of received a title shot, but he'd of lost.
Hart defeated Ric Flair to win that title as well, which somehow people keep forgetting to add for some reason. Flair wasn't exactly a push over. Also, Ramon was a larger athlete who had just finished up working with Main Eventers (Savage/Flair), but yeah - he was a career midcarder.
None of this negates the fact that Hart was hand-picked to lead the entire Company at that time, ultimately to be fed to Yokozuna. Guerrero, better opponents or not, wasn't picked to lead a Company, but instead the lesser of two Brands. He ended up losing to JBL.
You mean he spent a year losing to Rey Mysterio in a feud that was above the World Heavyweight Championship. At least tell the fucking story right.Bret Hart in 1993 was every bit the main eventer Eddie Guerrero was in 2004. It's not like Eddie suddenly became Hulk Hogan when he won the title. He got a four month reign and never got it again. After that he spent a year losing to Rey Mysterio.
And Eddie didn't have to become Hulk Hogan to be a bigger deal than Bret during his first title reign. Not even close.
ScreaminNormanSmiley
formerly ScreaminNormanSmiley
Wasn't Eddie champ before Benoit got his title?
TheOneBigWill
[This Space for Rent]
So the people who think Yokozuna was a dominant heel champion are now gonna write JBL off like he's nothing?
Oh my. The hypocrisy.
Never once did I write JBL off, or lay any sort of claim to him being a terrible Champion. The man was equally a longest reigning champion in 'x' amount of time. HOWEVER...
JBL was booked vastly different than Yokozuna.
JBL was booked to retain by hook or crook, and getting out with the title via countouts and DQs if he could.
Yokozuna was booked to dominate. He lost to Hogan in a squash (which hurts the shit out of his career to this day), but he regained something by ultimately beating Hogan (heel tactics or otherwise). He lost by countout to Luger - to my knowledge, his only JBL'ish loss. Everything else, he was booked as a solid dominating heel. JBL was never dominating.
And yet Guerrero was the one who the WWE wanted to put the belt on again. Weird.All valid points, and I'm not disputing Eddie's lack of a title reign. I am, however, pointing out the less significant value of it being in a Two World Champion system..
Indicating where I feel had it of only been 1-World title, Guerrero wouldn't be your Champion. Benoit would be. Guerrero may of received a title shot, but he'd of lost.
Flair's entire career was making the other guy look better. That other guy getting the win ceases to be impressive after a while.Hart defeated Ric Flair to win that title as well, which somehow people keep forgetting to add for some reason. Flair wasn't exactly a push over
You mean Yokozuna w/Fuji. Maybe if Hart were a better cheater, he'd have been able to negate that last part of the equation and not end up a victim.None of this negates the fact that Hart was hand-picked to lead the entire Company at that time, ultimately to be fed to Yokozuna.
Guerrero was picked to lead the brand with a growing Hispanic audience. Intelligent, no? And even after he lost his smile and made the company bail on him, they still kept him center stage because he was doing huge things for a key demographic. Eddie had longevity in the eyes of management. Can't say the same about Yoko.Guerrero, better opponents or not, wasn't picked to lead a Company, but instead the lesser of two Brands. He ended up losing to JBL.
TheOneBigWill
[This Space for Rent]
Wasn't Eddie champ before Benoit got his title?
yes.
However, since I'm sure your point is to go against mine of Benoit would be Champion above Guerrero..
1. Benoit won the Rumble. Guerrero did not.
2. Benoit had the bigger build to Mania.
3. Benoit Main Evented Mania.
Anything else?
Wow, can't see myself getting around that one.And Bret Hart didn't have to be anywhere close to Hulk Hogan to be a bigger deal than Eddie Guerrero.
Anyway, I'm off. Fight the good fight, JGlass.
Have you taken a look at some of the round three matches so far? AJ Styles vs. Angle, Andre the Giant vs. Kevin Nash, Batista vs. Undertaker! Those are some fantastic fucking matches!
Sorry Coco, I'm crashing soon too. Also, I'm not nearly as involved in this argument. All I know is that Eddie Guerrero is awesome, and watching a Yokozuna match is just about as exciting as watching paint dry on growing grass.
Sorry Coco, I'm crashing soon too. Also, I'm not nearly as involved in this argument. All I know is that Eddie Guerrero is awesome, and watching a Yokozuna match is just about as exciting as watching paint dry on growing grass.
ScreaminNormanSmiley
formerly ScreaminNormanSmiley
yes.
However, since I'm sure your point is to go against mine of Benoit would be Champion above Guerrero..
1. Benoit won the Rumble. Guerrero did not.
2. Benoit had the bigger build to Mania.
3. Benoit Main Evented Mania.
Anything else?
I just find it a silly argument that you believe that Guerrero would have never gotten a title because Benoit would have gotten there first and not dropped it, when Guerrero actually achieved that success first.
Joe's Gonna Kill You
The Hunt is On
Have you taken a look at some of the round three matches so far? AJ Styles vs. Angle, Andre the Giant vs. Kevin Nash, Batista vs. Undertaker! Those are some fantastic fucking matches!
Sorry Coco, I'm crashing soon too. Also, I'm not nearly as involved in this argument. All I know is that Eddie Guerrero is awesome, and watching a Yokozuna match is just about as exciting as watching paint dry on growing grass.
Yea Round Three looks Awesome I have no idea who I'm going to vote for between AJ and Kurt
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
Nope. I was going to make a post about Hart and why he was a midcarder, then Swagger popped into my mind. Even as champ I never saw him as ME material.
Hart or Swagger? Please tell me you're talking about Swagger.
I really want to know what longevity has to do with anything. The same people pulling that card on Lesnar are basing their kayfabe arguments for guys like Yoko on a very limited period of time, ignoring the decline of his career while lamenting the fact that Lesnar never had a decline. Just seems like a very silly, backwards way to handle such affairs.
It's not about longevity; it's about the fact that Lesnar had one decent year in professional wrestling. Successful year? Yes. Entertaining? Sometimes, yes, but that was more because of Heyman's booking than it was Lesnar being able to carry storylines. However, it was just a year, and he was booked against the best wrestlers imaginable. Everything was handed to him from the beginning, and he pissed it all away.
Rude, on the other hand, had about a good seven years in the business (I think 10 years overall, but the first 3 are forgettable so they don't count), of being a top level mid-card heel, putting over faces better than pretty much anyone could, cutting FANTASTIC promos, and had good to great matches from time-to-time (sure, they weren't all great, but for the time he was a much more tolerable heel to watch wrestle than 90% of the rest of the roster).
Better yet, look at when their pushes started. Eddie's stock was rising from the summer of '03 onward while Benoit didn't really start building his main event momentum until the fall. In the summer? He was Eddie's bitch. Not that he minded, the sick fuck.I just find it a silly argument that you believe that Guerrero would have never gotten a title because Benoit would have gotten there first and not dropped it, when Guerrero actually achieved that success first.
TheOneBigWill
[This Space for Rent]
And yet Guerrero was the one who the WWE wanted to put the belt on again. Weird.
Eh? Guerrero never won the Championship again.
Ohhhhh, this is where the what if's are gonna come into play, since Guerrero had a title shot against Batista before his death. Gotcha.
Flair's entire career was making the other guy look better. That other guy getting the win ceases to be impressive after a while.
You mean Yokozuna w/Fuji. Maybe if Hart were a better cheater, he'd have been able to negate that last part of the equation and not end up a victim.
This is the stalemate here. You say Eddie would win because he knows how to cheat, which would counteract Fuji. I say Eddie would lose, because Fuji and Cornette (both of which managed him during his Prime) would've negated any cheating Guerrero would try to accomplish.
Either way, we're either both right or both wrong - and when you focus more on the outside issues, more than the inside issues, it shows you're trying to redirect the focus on the two in-ring Wrestlers to something less important. (that's probably not the right word, considering Fuji/Cornette was moderately important to Yoko, just as cheating was to Guerrero, but the overall point is you're focusing too much on outside factors when the basis of the situation is which Wrestler is better, individually.)
Guerrero was picked to lead the brand with a growing Hispanic audience. Intelligent, no? And even after he lost his smile and made the company bail on him, they still kept him center stage because he was doing huge things for a key demographic. Eddie had longevity in the eyes of management. Can't say the same about Yoko.
I'll give you a half credit here, merely because Yokozuna lost interest in the eyes of the Company as far as longevity was concerned - not because he couldn't of been vital, but instead due to his weight and health issues.
While he was Champion, it does not take away from how much more dominating of a heel he was than the likes of Guerrero's top rival in 04. (JBL) Guerrero couldn't even out cheat him, and yet you feel so strongly that he'd somehow manage it against Yokozuna, who's more aggressive and powerful?
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
Fuck all of your arguments, there's only one argument that matters. Eddie Guerrero was entertaining, Yoko was not. I also have it on good authority that he broke up The Beatles.
^^this x1000
The only criteria I use when voting is which wrestler I found more entertaining, I could give flying fuck what they've accomplished, tbh I find both Eddie and Yoko to be overrated as shit, but at least Eddie could actually entertain me, something Yoko was never able to do
Hart or Swagger? Please tell me you're talking about Swagger.
Swagger. Obviously.
ScreaminNormanSmiley
formerly ScreaminNormanSmiley
Eh? Guerrero never won the Championship again.
Ohhhhh, this is where the what if's are gonna come into play, since Guerrero had a title shot against Batista before his death. Gotcha.
What if there was only one title? I bet they would have given it to Benoit and Eddie would have never captured it.
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