The WrestleZone Tournament Has Begun

[TheOneBigWill]

I just find it a silly argument that you believe that Guerrero would have never gotten a title because Benoit would have gotten there first and not dropped it, when Guerrero actually achieved that success first.

Alright, because it isn't the actual thread and it's more or less bullshitting between regulars that likely won't influence anything.. I'm breaking the kayfabe wall on this one.

Eddie didn't achieve his success first because he was better, he achieved it on a lesser stage - because they wanted the title off the better guy - which is also why Guerrero wasn't even booked to look like he could legit beat Lesnar. He was beaten for sakes, and Goldberg ran in - destroyed Lesnar - and Guerrero took advantage.

Benoit, legit, was booked to look like he could beat HHH AND HBK - back to back ppv's, no less. Guerrero's best feud as Champion was the only one he was a winner of, against Angle - and even at that, it came down to tricks and a roll up. If Eddie can roll up Yokozuna, I'll never say another thing about this subject right here, right now. You show me how it'd even be possible.

 

[The Crock]

To be fair, Will, Stephanie McMahon outright said Eddie was going to get the belt.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

What if there was only one title? I bet they would have given it to Benoit and Eddie would have never captured it.

See, now you understand. Besides, that's completely different because I said it.

 

[Coco]

Either way, we're either both right or both wrong - and when you focus more on the outside issues, more than the inside issues, it shows you're trying to redirect the focus on the two in-ring Wrestlers to something less important. (that's probably not the right word, considering Fuji/Cornette was moderately important to Yoko, just as cheating was to Guerrero, but the overall point is you're focusing too much on outside factors when the basis of the situation is which Wrestler is better, individually.)

Well I've been clear what would happen on an even playing field. Guerrero till the cows come home. There's really nowhere else for us to go with that one.

While he was Champion, it does not take away from how much more dominating of a heel he was than the likes of Guerrero's top rival in 04. (JBL) Guerrero couldn't even out cheat him, and yet you feel so strongly that he'd somehow manage it against Yokozuna, who's more aggressive and powerful?

JBL didn't need half the roster to survive the Undertaker. That's because JBL is better than Yoko. In my book, there's less shame in getting caught by JBL than there is in getting caught by Yoko. Unless of course half the roster and a flamethrower concealed as a camera are involved. Yoko just doesn't cheat as well or as efficiently as JBL. It's apples and oranges.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

To be fair, Will, Stephanie McMahon outright said Eddie was going to get the belt.

Honestly did not know that. I'd like to see the actual proof, but I doubt that'll happen. (nothing against you, btw)

I feel like this is going no where. So I'm just gonna call it a night and say Yokozuna (in my mind) would win, because he had a more impressive reign as Champion - complete with who he defeated, and how he was carried throughout late 1992-early 1994.

 

[The Crock]

Yoko, by himself, would be a TERRIBLE cheater. Fuji is the only reason he ever even cheated, plus, couldn't Eddie just bring Chavo to the ring with him? It would negate Fuji and allow Eddie to outsmart, and outcheat, Yoko.

 

[The Crock]

Honestly did not know that. I'd like to see the actual proof, but I doubt that'll happen. (nothing against you, btw)

I feel like this is going no where. So I'm just gonna call it a night and say Yokozuna (in my mind) would win, because he had a more impressive reign as Champion - complete with who he defeated, and how he was carried throughout late 1992-early 1994.

I'm posting off of my phone which is why I'm slow to respond, so I can't go find the interview.

So, somebody please go find where Steph said that, would ya?

 

[justinsayne]

For fuck sake you know how Eddie wins this match, he waits till the ref is distracted grabs a chair slams it against the mat, then tosses it at Yoko, who would likely catch it as the ref is turning around, by the time the ref turns around he see's the chair in Yoko's hands, and Eddie lying in the ground, he calls for the bell and Eddie wins via DQ, and you can't argue this wouldn't work because it has, multiple times

That or he could just run around the ring and make Yoko chase him for 20 mins. or until he has a heart attack and dies, which ever comes first

 

[JGlass]

Yoko wouldn't last 20 minutes. Try 5 tops. After 5 minutes Yoko would be too exhausted to fight, and Eddie could work on his legs, knock them out from underneath him, and then hit the Frog Splash. Game over. Winner: Eddie Guerrero.

 

[Uncle Chester]

I'm a youngling but wouldn't Zuna just smother Guerrero senseless?

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Anyone using the argument that Yokozuna would tire out and Guerrero could (easily or otherwise) gain full control and win in quick fashion is completely clueless as to anything Yokozuna has ever done.

Yokozuna wrestled twice in one night at Wrestlemania, not once, but twice - back to back years, no less. Wrestlemania IX & Wrestlemania X. He didn't tire out in any of those matches, and as I've argued all night with Coco the match (Mania X) came down to him losing grip/balance on the ropes and falling off.

In 1993, he wrestled roughly 9 minutes before polishing off Bret Hart (with help, whatever). He then turned around directly and (albeit foolishly) accepted a challenge from Hulk Hogan - only to lose due to salt in his own eyes in roughly 21 seconds.

In 1994, he wrestled Lex Luger (14:40) and ended up winning by DQ. He then turned around, only 2 matches later - and wrestled Bret Hart another 10+ minutes. (10:38) Hart opened the show and went only 5 minutes and some change more in that match, (20:21) than Yoko did against a harder hitting Luger, later in the show.

If anything, I'd say Yokozuna's stamina and ability to last in the ring through 20 minutes is very solid and possible. But yet most people claim he'll get winded and tire by chasing Guerrero. Or after 10 minutes or 20 he'll just, I dunno, die?? Regardless, anyone who thinks he'll chase Guerrero is naive.

If you're 600lbs., why the fuck would you chase anyone? Sooner or later, if they expect to win - they'll have to come to you to attempt knocking you down. Yokozuna didn't chase people, he waited patiently for them to stupidly run around like headless chickens and capitalized on their own wasted energy.

People, especially cruiserweight-sized ones, who faced Yoko had to expend twice as much energy as Yokozuna - just to get him to one leg. Much less off his feet. If anyone is tiring out in this contest, it'll end up being the Mexican.

 

[JGlass]

Oh fuck that Will. You said it yourself, he wrestled Hogan for 21 seconds, that hardly counts as wrestling twice in one night. He wrestled for under 10 minutes in Wrestlemania 9, that doesn't exactly scream Mr. Stamina to me. In fact, there were 4 matches on the card that were longer, and Yoko vs. Bret was the main event.

And let's not forget that at Wrestlemania 10 he had a nice 20+ minute breather in between matches. Oh, and then he lost to Bret Hart despite his best efforts and constant cheating (biting Bret Hart, Jim Cornette pulling ref Roddy Piper out of the ring, etc.). And how did Bret Hart win this match? An exhausted Yokozuna slipped and fell when trying to hit his finishing maneuver. Check. Mate.

Eddie Guerrero wouldn't even have to take down Yoko, he could outlast him and wait for Yokozuna to take himself out.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I went with Yoko. In another match I don't take seriously, my criteria was who would win in a pie eating contest.

 

[Coco]

If we're talking Vicodin pie, nobody throws that shit back like Latino Heeeeeeaatt!

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'm waiting on your reply, Big Sexy.

 

[JGlass]

When it comes to pie eating, Eddie beats Yoko. Do you think Chyna would have let a fatty fat fatty like Yokozuna anywhere near her pie?

 

[Coco]

You seen that sausage clit? Meat pie, bro.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I'd like to think Eddie's standards were higher. But.......

I can't say they are.

 

[Coco]

God, at least be fair and show people a photo of Vickie from when she was young.

Spoiler

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Fuck all of your arguments, there's only one argument that matters. Eddie Guerrero was entertaining, Yoko was not. I also have it on good authority that he broke up The Beatles.

Yoko's role wasn't to be overly entertaining, his job was t be the dastardly foreign heel who made the crowd pop for guys like: Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Lex Luger, Bret Hart, Tatanka, The Undertaker, the Steiners, etc. It worked, and it worked well, because Vince left the belt on Yoko for 280 days and made him the man who put Hulk Hogan and The Undertaker out of action.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Oh fuck that Will. You said it yourself, he wrestled Hogan for 21 seconds, that hardly counts as wrestling twice in one night. He wrestled for under 10 minutes in Wrestlemania 9, that doesn't exactly scream Mr. Stamina to me. In fact, there were 4 matches on the card that were longer, and Yoko vs. Bret was the main event.

As yes, one of two main events at Wrestlemania for Yokozuna. Two more than Eddie had.

And let's not forget that at Wrestlemania 10 he had a nice 20+ minute breather in between matches.

Not as long as Bret's 2-hour breather.

Oh, and then he lost to Bret Hart despite his best efforts and constant cheating (biting Bret Hart, Jim Cornette pulling ref Roddy Piper out of the ring, etc.).

Since when did losing to Bret Hart become cause for dismissal? Last I checked, the list of people who have lost to Bret Hart is long and distinguished. (Like my Johnson.)

And how did Bret Hart win this match? An exhausted Yokozuna slipped and fell when trying to hit his finishing maneuver. Check. Mate.

Try again youngin. A concussed Yokozuna, having been hit in the head with the foreign object in Luger's elbow not an hour prior, caused him to become disoriented.

Eddie Guerrero wouldn't even have to take down Yoko, he could outlast him and wait for Yokozuna to take himself out.

I expect better from you. You actually think Yokozuna is going to RUN AFTER EDDIE? Yokozuna ran after no man. Didn't need to. He could take some shots and then land a big move to take control of the match. Ask Hogan.

Also, what's Eddie's #2 move? The three amigos suplexes. Totally useless here. Can't use'em. Eddie has to knock Yoko down to even have a shot at the frog splash, and Yoko has several defenses against that (rolling out of the way, extending his foot) and lest we forget, Yoko is a man who kicked out of Hogan's leg drop.

 

[CH David]

IC called JGlass a Doody-head. Lulz.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I like to think I made a strong case of why HHH should lose to Brisco.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I like to think I made a strong case of why HHH should lose to Brisco.

"I farted once on the set of Blue Lagoon!"

 

[JGlass]

The first student-teacher sparring session? Challenge accepted.

As yes, one of two main events at Wrestlemania for Yokozuna. Two more than Eddie had.

Let's not pretend Yokozuna main evented Wrestlemania because he deserved it. He mainevent Wrestlemania because he was a fat foreigner that people hated, not through superior heel work and fantastic wrestling.

Not as long as Bret's 2-hour breather.

Bret is nearly irrelevant in this situation, as the argument is questioning Yoko's endurance, not his skill or the skill of his opponent.

Since when did losing to Bret Hart become cause for dismissal? Last I checked, the list of people who have lost to Bret Hart is long and distinguished. (Like my Johnson.)

There's no shame in losing to Bret Hart, but losing to Bret Hart by falling off of the second rope onto your fat ass doesn't exactly speak to Bret Hart's wrestling prowess as much as it does Yokozuna's fat ass.

Try again youngin. A concussed Yokozuna, having been hit in the head with the foreign object in Luger's elbow not an hour prior, caused him to become disoriented.

Hey now, old timer, no need to bring age to the equation. Yokozuna was FINE for that match until he went up on that top rope. He clearly lost his footing because he was exhausted, not because he was concussed.

I expect better from you. You actually think Yokozuna is going to RUN AFTER EDDIE? Yokozuna ran after no man. Didn't need to. He could take some shots and then land a big move to take control of the match. Ask Hogan.

I never said Yoko was going to have to chase after Eddie, I said Eddie was going to outlast the fat man, and that doesn't necessarily entail running circles around Yoko and making him chase Eddie. Most of Yoko's offense comes from charging his opponent like a slightly stupider version of a hippopotamus. If Eddie can get out of the way, and he can with ease, Yoko will tire himself out. Furthermore, Eddie is smart, he'll work Yoko's legs with kicks and chop blocks, and the weaker Yoko's legs are, the harder it's going to be to carry his weight around the ring, and the more useless his more powerful moves will be.

Also, what's Eddie's #2 move? The three amigos suplexes. Totally useless here. Can't use'em. Eddie has to knock Yoko down to even have a shot at the frog splash, and Yoko has several defenses against that (rolling out of the way, extending his foot) and lest we forget, Yoko is a man who kicked out of Hogan's leg drop.

The three amigos was more of a gimmick than a move. It's not like he hit it in every match, it's not like he needed it to set up the Frog Splash.

And have you ever watched wrestling before? Watch just about any non-squash match between a big fat guy and a small guy. Regardless of who wins, the smaller man ALWAYS finds a way to knock the big man off his feet. Any match worth watching with Mark Henry, Umaga, and even Yokozuna sees the small guy knock the big guy to the ground one way or another. Eddie vs. Yokozuna would DEFINITELY see Yoko hit the ground, and Eddie will capitalize on it.

And Yoko roll out of the way of the frog splash? After a 15+ minute match with Eddie, he'd be lucky if he can keep his eyes open to see Eddie splash him.