The *Official* John Cena Thread

[SSJPhenom]

When talking about John Cena and his charisma or ability to speak, then he is among the best in the WWE! I have given Cena props several times on his energy, charisma, and ability to speak. I quite like him more when he is serious, but this week on Raw, he was actually a little bit funny and didn't really come over as, what I call, "Stupid Funny." His charisma and mic skills are unquestionable.

With that said, when looking at Cena as a whole, in terms of mic skills, charisma, IN RING ABILIY, and so on, he is missing a few levels and that is what brings him down. I don't just what to hear a good speaker, talk about what they're going to do, I want to see them do it. To me, if you hype up a match to be outstanding, great, or classic, you have to be able to go out there and deliver and for me, Cena does not!

Now, when I am talking about great wrestlers today, who, IMO, have it all, I am talking about Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels, and Undertaker. Are we really going to put Cena in that class of performer? Sure, like I said, he can talk with the best of them, but when it comes match time, I am often left wondering how he ever made it to the top.

Just a little insight to a major reason why I can't stand John Cena!

 

[Stickstar 16]

Hmmmm, a John Cena thread where half of the people seem to hate his guts and the other half that recognise him as potentially one of the greater wrestlers to grace the ring.

This in essence is the key to John Cena's character, he's polarising, you ever love him and look to see him fight back from a beat down by a heel, and come back to be able to get the victory, or you watch to see if a heel will beat him, or if he will "winz teh match wit teh fivezzzz movez of dooooooommmzzzz" so the smarks can run back to the online forum and complain how Cena is superman and never puts anyone else over.

In the end love him or hate him, you watch to see what happens to Cena, if not, how can you detractors say he has bad mike skills or wrestles badly in a match, unless you have watched the whole thing. This is why he's such a draw card, you really think that Vince is that poor a business man that if one of his top faces is continually getting mixed reactions that he wouldn't try to adjust the character, even slighty to get a better reaction and then assure himself everyone is behind Cena and will watch him.

Cena is one of the better guys on the mike, he always delivers a solid promo, and I feel that the intensity and energy he's bringing to them makes them that much more enjoyable and believable, where as somone like morrision, who is a good wrestler and a future star, has no passion or emphasis in his promos and sometimes it just feels like he's dialing them in, and reading off a teleprompter. You may hate his promos for being too silly, and then too serious and intense, but if you look at the character you see on tv week in and out, isn't that fitting with the character he portrays, the good guy that likes to have fun and relax, isn't too serious, until you start to mess with him then he's into game mode,ready to knock your teeth in.

The next point is my favourite, he only knows five moves, therefore he isn't a good wrestler. I disagree with this point, although i would prefer him to occasionally bring in a new move or two, i think he is completely fine with his current moveset that is utilised in the ring. He, just like Austin, is a brawler, so if you look a lot of his offence are punches and kicks, and shoulder blocks, he doesn't really use technical moves that much, because he doesn't need too, and he uses what technical ones he has at sparing, and usually appropriate times to help forward the story and flow of the match, and to progress the ring psychology.

As for the five moves of doom, i have quite a simple reason why Cena should take a beat down then come back and unleash a flurry of offence against his opponent, that its fitting with his character, he's an intense man that never backs down and gives up, and will always persevere through. This means that he'll start the match going hard, and then, throughout the course of the match, as with most, the heel will assume control of the match and attempt to slow it down and wear down Cena. After a point in the match, when Cena gets to start his comeback, he's been having the shit kicked out of him, so he wants to get back into it to win, so he might get his second win, which most athletes would know about, the point after you think you have nothing left in the tank, and suddenly the adrenalin and energy kick in, and then you're back to going at 100%, so why can't it happen for Cena, his second wind kicks in, adrenalin's pumping, and he's just unleashes in a flurry all his offence, and uses his power moves, to put his opponent away, or its too late and not enough and he loses anyway.

So in conclusion, i appreciate and enjoy Cena, i think he's doing some great work and him being the champion will allow him to help put over and create some new fresh main event heels. If anyone has any other points they want me to put my opinion to, feel free to suggest them and i will try to come up with some to suitably answer it.

 

[Milkyway!]

When talking about John Cena and his charisma or ability to speak, then he is among the best in the WWE!

Now that you've stated the obvious. We all know Cena is the best in the world on such things. But you're really missing the key elements to his in-ring work, that make him entertaining.

I have given Cena props several times on his energy, charisma, and ability to speak.

What about his ability to draw? His abilities to entertain? His abilities to put on a damn good match?

His charisma and mic skills are unquestionable.

Then shut up, and quit dogging him in this thread.

With that said, when looking at Cena as a whole, in terms of mic skills, charisma, IN RING ABILIY, and so on, he is missing a few levels and that is what brings him down.

Boy, we've not heard this one have we boys? I bet Cena only knows 5 moves too?

No hes not, you're simply missing a few screws up in that head of yours. John Cena's inring abilities are diffrent compared to most. He doesn't need an elaborate moveset, as what he does is entertaining. The croud pops for him, and he always gets one of the loudest pops of the night. Just because hes not as technical as Bret Hart, doesn't mean hes not better.

I don't just what to hear a good speaker,

Then don't watch the president's speaches.

talk about what they're going to do, I want to see them do it.

When has Cena ever said something he was going to do, and then not do it. Enlighten me.

To me, if you hype up a match to be outstanding, great, or classic, you have to be able to go out there and deliver and for me, Cena does not!

You really don't make an sense. You make it sound like Cena goes out there each and every week, saying hes the best there is, that hes going to put on the best match ever. Those words have never came out of Cena's mouth. All hes ever promised is to entertain, and boy does he entertain.

Now, when I am talking about great wrestlers today, who, IMO, have it all, I am talking about Rey Mysterio,

Mysterio is severly underrated. But to say hes as good as John Cena, thats much too outlandish, and fairly stupid.

Chris Jericho,

What has Jericho ever done? I mean really? Jericho is probably the most overrated superstar on the roster.

Shawn Michaels,

Michaels is well past his prime. He can put on a good match, and cuts a good promo. But what are his acomplishments? He was the champion all of 3 times, and all 3 times he did nothing to wow anyone. He didn't draw a penny during those times. Hes not as good as John Cena.

and Undertaker.

The guy takes 6 month breaks at a time. When he does come back, he doesn't put over superstars, and is hotshotted into the main event scene. CM Punk went from being the best superstar in the business, to being a questionable champion once again as soon as The Undertaker got back. He hurts people, who are on top these days.

Are we really going to put Cena in that class of performer? Sure, like I said, he can talk with the best of them, but when it comes match time, I am often left wondering how he ever made it to the top.

Thats because you're just being an idiot. John Cena is the best professional wrestler in the world. We measure wrestlers by how entertaining they are. How do we measure their overall entertainment? By the amount of tickets bought, merchandise sold, viewers, and Pay Per View buys, in which John Cena is up there with the elite among the elites.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Now that you've stated the obvious. We all know Cena is the best in the world on such things. But you're really missing the key elements to his in-ring work, that make him entertaining.

Sure I am missing the key elements to his in-ring ability. Please, enlighten me.

What about his ability to draw? His abilities to entertain? His abilities to put on a damn good match?

Sure he can draw. I have said that one before. Sure he is entertaining, sometimes. I have said that one before. I don't really get to see to much of his in ring abilities because he never has to show them. He was much better back on Smackdown. My opinion is, I have seen Hogan before, I don't want a reincarnation of him.

Then shut up, and quit dogging him in this thread.

I don't disrespect the man. I simply say why I don't like him. I never try to justify why everyone should hate him. I just simply say what my problems are with him.

Boy, we've not heard this one have we boys? I bet Cena only knows 5 moves too?

Didn't mention it once in this post.

No hes not, you're simply missing a few screws up in that head of yours. John Cena's inring abilities are diffrent compared to most. He doesn't need an elaborate moveset, as what he does is entertaining. The croud pops for him, and he always gets one of the loudest pops of the night. Just because hes not as technical as Bret Hart, doesn't mean hes not better.

I'm missing a few screws? I will look in to that. In the mean time, you should really sit down and think, "Is Cena that good? Really?"

BTW, I don't really care for Bret Hart to much.

Then don't watch the president's speaches.

I don't. I only watched one and that was after he won the election.

When has Cena ever said something he was going to do, and then not do it. Enlighten me.

I will answer that below.

You really don't make an sense. You make it sound like Cena goes out there each and every week, saying hes the best there is, that hes going to put on the best match ever. Those words have never came out of Cena's mouth. All hes ever promised is to entertain, and boy does he entertain.

I make plenty of sense. You just didn't have anything else to do when you made this post so you came looking to argue and you knew that I would respond. Anyways. He has hyped up plenty of matches that have sucked. For example, the last triple threat that he had with Orton and HHH. He came out and said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, this was the main event at WM 24, this is going to be epic and blah blah blah." Was it epic, really? He came out before his last match with Trips on Raw and said, "This is a WM calibur main event. Fans you are going to be treated to a classic and blah blah blah." Was it classic, really? Think about that and get back to me.

Mysterio is severly underrated. But to say hes as good as John Cena, thats much too outlandish, and fairly stupid.

IMO he is better than John Cena. He is much more entertaining in the ring and his matches with Jericho were some of the best matches of this past year. I haven't seen Cena have that good of match this year at all. Call me what you will. I am going off of my opinion here.

What has Jericho ever done? I mean really? Jericho is probably the most overrated superstar on the roster.

What hasn't he done is a more valid question. You really just want to argue, don't you? I'm not going to go into a list or anything. He just has some of the best matches in the WWE right now and he can cut a hell of a promo. I always find Jericho entertaining.

Michaels is well past his prime. He can put on a good match, and cuts a good promo. But what are his acomplishments? He was the champion all of 3 times, and all 3 times he did nothing to wow anyone. He didn't draw a penny during those times. Hes not as good as John Cena.

That's right, he didn't draw as champion and has really never been a big draw for the WWE, except for when he is with DX. He has only saved each and every WM, since his return to the WWE, from being complete and utter shit.

The guy takes 6 month breaks at a time. When he does come back, he doesn't put over superstars, and is hotshotted into the main event scene. CM Punk went from being the best superstar in the business, to being a questionable champion once again as soon as The Undertaker got back. He hurts people, who are on top these days.

I don't care how long he is gone. He is the corner stone of the WWE. He is the living legend. Not to mention he rarely ever puts on a shit match. He doesn't help guys? He took guys like King Kong Bundy, Yokozuna, Giant Gonzalez, IRS, and others, and made the fans give a shit about them, even though they were horrible in the ring.

His feud with CM Punk isn't over and he isn't hurting CM Punk. He is making CM Punk that much more of a heel with the whole screw job thing. CM Punk will come out on top of 'Taker when their feud is over and CM Punk will be the most credible heel champion in the WWE when this does happen. I guarantee it!

Thats because you're just being an idiot. John Cena is the best professional wrestler in the world. We measure wrestlers by how entertaining they are. How do we measure their overall entertainment? By the amount of tickets bought, merchandise sold, viewers, and Pay Per View buys, in which John Cena is up there with the elite among the elites.

If I wanted to debate with Slyfox, I would have PM'd him. Really, come up with your own arguements. This post was completely opinionated but since you brought it up, let's use this logic.

By this logic that means that Batista and Jeff Hardy are two of the greatest professional wrestlers today, because they draw well. Even though neither can seem to talk on the mic at all and Batista rarely ever has a decent match, except for when he is facing that Undertaker fellow who hurts people more than he helps them. Jeff Hardy really didn't have good matches either. He had good spots, but not matches. Also, by this logic, HBK and Bret Hart were completely shit because they are two of the worst drawing champions in the history of the WWF/E. Although, many consider them two of the best ever. IDK.

Really, your post seemed like you were just putting shit together just to have an arguement. Is that the case?

That is all!

 

[KANE-A-KNIGHT]

In my opinion he should be booked like mystrerio. Have upper-mid card fueds still be majorly over with the younger audiences and build him like some of the top talants at the moment who worked from the bottom. the reason i dont like the character John Cena is when he beats people with real talent.

 

[gd]

I've grown rather tired on Cena at this point, not exactly sure why. He extremely passionate on the mic, above average in the ring, and way over with the crowd. However, I don't really care for him anymore. I think it's because we've been seeing pretty much the same character over the past few years, the guy who likes to joke around and have fun, but gets super serious at times. I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with that character, but I don't like it anymore.

Nowadays, whenever I see a Cena match and he gets his opponent up for the Attitude Adjustment, I either think "who cares" or "wow, that's stupid." I'm not tyring to say Cena is awful and should be fired or anything, but something should be done, it's up to the WWE to figure out what.

 

[Paradox]

Sure I am missing the key elements to his in-ring ability. Please, enlighten me.

Let's see how many matches have I listed before? I've given you a whole slew of match that should his in ring ability. Yet, every time you say they suck. I think I'm starting to understand you now. You've only once given Cena fully credit for a good match. That was vs Triple h at NoC. You said it was Michaels that carried him. Not the case. You said that his match with JBL was a great match. Which was a gimmick match that was full of blood and them brawling more than wrestling. What exactly do you like in a match?

Sure he can draw. I have said that one before. Sure he is entertaining, sometimes. I have said that one before. I don't really get to see to much of his in ring abilities because he never has to show them. He was much better back on Smackdown. My opinion is, I have seen Hogan before, I don't want a reincarnation of him.

Sometimes? Sometimes? REALLY? He's the most entertaining guy in the whole company.... Name someone who is more entertaining than that. Other than a diva yes we know what you're doing! If he was a reincarnation of Hogan, he would be doing the same thing Hogan did. Hogan didn't come out and bash his opponents until he was heel... Yeah so like baby face Hogan. Can you show me a promo of Hogans that wasn't serious in the 80s? Doubt it....

I don't disrespect the man. I simply say why I don't like him. I never try to justify why everyone should hate him. I just simply say what my problems are with him.

Yeah, but the reasons you listed are pathetic. Anyone can nitpick a character to the point to where they hate him! You are one of these people.

I'm missing a few screws? I will look in to that. In the mean time, you should really sit down and think, "Is Cena that good? Really?"

Haven't I been telling you that the whole time? Yes he is that good. why because he has everything! Good on the mic, great charisma, and hype a match, can draw a match, and he's decent in the ring. Not great but good enough to get the job done.

BTW, I don't really care for Bret Hart to much.

Wow, don't care for one of the best pure wrestlers that ever lived... You really have me wondering what the heck you want from a match. You hate Cena, cuz he's has no ring skill, and you don't care for Hart who had the best ring skills of anyone. You make no sense...

I make plenty of sense. You just didn't have anything else to do when you made this post so you came looking to argue and you knew that I would respond. Anyways. He has hyped up plenty of matches that have sucked. For example, the last triple threat that he had with Orton and HHH. He came out and said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, this was the main event at WM 24, this is going to be epic and blah blah blah." Was it epic, really? He came out before his last match with Trips on Raw and said, "This is a WM calibur main event. Fans you are going to be treated to a classic and blah blah blah." Was it classic, really? Think about that and get back to me.

How many matches has 'Taker hyped that Have been crap? His matches with Austin where pretty bad. Wait, same with some of his match with the Rock... Look I just used your logic against you... OMG now you're going to go off on me... please save it.

IMO he is better than John Cena. He is much more entertaining in the ring and his matches with Jericho were some of the best matches of this past year. I haven't seen Cena have that good of match this year at all. Call me what you will. I am going off of my opinion here.

Hmm. Besides Punk, Rey had one of the worst reigns as a champ in a long time. Yes, his match with Jericho were great, but how long did his mania match last? 20 Seconds? Oh and he's the guy that just got bust right? Like I've said before I honestly don't have a clue what you consider a good match, because what I'm getting from this post is you don't like a majority of wrestlers but a select few.

What hasn't he done is a more valid question. You really just want to argue, don't you? I'm not going to go into a list or anything. He just has some of the best matches in the WWE right now and he can cut a hell of a promo. I always find Jericho entertaining.

I love Jericho, but he's be lucky on so many occasions. Look, twice now he's been at the right place at the right time. One. When Trips went down. He got the straps. Two. When Cena went down. He got the belt. Jericho as great as he is, isn't a top main event star. I hate to admit that, but its true.

That's right, he didn't draw as champion and has really never been a big draw for the WWE, except for when he is with DX. He has only saved each and every WM, since his return to the WWE, from being complete and utter shit.

That's why I can never say Michaels was the total package. The guy could put on some of the greatest matches in history, but he could draw to save his life. Thus he couldn't carry the company. That's why he's a tear below Hogan, Austin, and Rock. Let's look at Mania since he's been back.

19. Rock vs Austin... Angle vs Lesnar, Hogan vs McMahon, Trips vs Booker T. Yeah, he saved that match. No... Match of the night was either Rock Austin, or Angle Lesnar.
20. I'll give you.
21. Money in the bank... Great match.
22. meh, one of McMahon's better matches, but it's McMahon. You also had a great triple threat match.
23. You had two great matches, plus a sick spot. Taker, vs Batista, and Cena vs Michaels, oh and Hardy off the ladder.
24. Please be honest. 'Taker vs Edge stole the whole damn show.
25. His match was the only saving grace of the show.

I don't care how long he is gone. He is the corner stone of the WWE. He is the living legend. Not to mention he rarely ever puts on a shit match. He doesn't help guys? He took guys like King Kong Bundy, Yokozuna, Giant Gonzalez, IRS, and others, and made the fans give a shit about them, even though they were horrible in the ring.

Not going to deny that, but who has he put over lately? Not in the 80s lately.

His feud with CM Punk isn't over and he isn't hurting CM Punk. He is making CM Punk that much more of a heel with the whole screw job thing. CM Punk will come out on top of 'Taker when their feud is over and CM Punk will be the most credible heel champion in the WWE when this does happen. I guarantee it!

Agreed, why? Because I know what's going to happen. Predicable.

By this logic that means that Batista and Jeff Hardy are two of the greatest professional wrestlers today, because they draw well. Even though neither can seem to talk on the mic at all and Batista rarely ever has a decent match, except for when he is facing that Undertaker fellow who hurts people more than he helps them. Jeff Hardy really didn't have good matches either. He had good spots, but not matches. Also, by this logic, HBK and Bret Hart were completely shit because they are two of the worst drawing champions in the history of the WWF/E. Although, many consider them two of the best ever. IDK.

Jeff Hardy is a spot monkey, but we love him for it. Batista is one of the worst guys around, but he can draw. Bret Hart and Michaels weren't the total package because they couldn't draw. They weren't shit, but they weren't everything.

Really, your post seemed like you were just putting shit together just to have an arguement. Is that the case?

Actually yours is, because I can't tell what the hell you like... Or what you are trying to compare Cena to... Cena is one of the best at what he does why, because he's the total package. I've told you that, but you don't see it. There are only a few like him. Rock, Austin, 'Taker, Triple h, Hogan, Sting, Angle, Savage... Those are a couple that I can think were the total package.

 

[SSJPhenom]

PARADOX, I'm not going to quote you because we have went around in this circle so many times that we are just repeating ourselves.

Cena/Trips at NoC wasn't the only time that I have given him credit. I credited him for a great performance at the first One Night Stand and even said that I have never seen anyone get that much heat from an audience. That's not giving him credit? You are right, JBL/Cena I Quit is my favorite Cena match. Not because it was a gimmick match, but because I felt like Cena did alot in that match to make it as great as it was. That is the best that I have seen Cena perform. You seem to always forget how many times I have actually given Cena credit. Stop trying to make it out like I just totally don't like him. I have my reasons for not liking him and my reasons alone. Who are you to tell me that my opinion is wrong?

Don't get me wrong. I know that Bret Hart was one of the greatest ring technicians of all time, but you seem to think that is all I like about a wrestler or something. For me to completely love a wrestler, I want them to do everything that I want. I loved Hart until I learned the complete story of the Screw Job. I loved him until I learned that those rants that he used to go on in the WWF were actually real. Like when he pushed McMahon down and said, "this is bullshit!" I want a wrestler to be everything. That is why 'Taker is my favorite. He is everything. Great inside the ring, on the mic, great charisma, energy, plays a good character, and he is the top professional outside of the ring aswell. Same reason why I don't like Hogan, because of his ego. I will admit, as I have before, that Cena is most of the things that I have mentioned, but I do not enjoy alot him on T.V.

Now, on to what you said about 'Taker. I have never heard or seen 'Taker come out and either list his accomplishments or actually say, "This match is going to be epic, great, classic, or what have you." So you tell me what matches that he has hyped to the point of no return and then not delivered on. Who has he put over lately? He put over Lesnar, Kane wouldn't be shit without him, he gave Batista the matches of his career, he brought Orton back up from the brink, Khali owes him some credit, Kennedy. Is that enough or do you want more? He will put over CM Punk. Mark my words.

Do you have a jest of what I like or want now?

That is all!

 

[Dave]

I said it a while back and I will say it again, now.

I like John Cena.

I like him both as a man, a competitor and a character. I like him both inside and outside of the ring. I just like the guy. To me, he seems very honest and doesn't deserve half of the shit that he gets put through. Although, I do like how people get upset over him winning and voice their opinions. The WWE then use these opinions and turn it into more material to get him hated some more. Personally, I think that he is a great asset to the WWE and they know it. He appeals to everyone that watches the WWE and that is something that is very rare in this business. Take Orton for example. Sure he appeals to the male demographic from a certain age group. This is because he is probably as close to the edgier story lines of the past but does he appeal to the children who watch it? Do kids turn around and say to their parents "I wish I was more like Randy Orton, so I could be borderline psychopath and kiss women whilst they are incapacitated"? No I don't think so.

Cena is a good guy and his character is quite appealing to me. I like how they bill him as this superman and American hero. I also think that he is one funny dude and is good on the mike. I also think that his in-ring work is very good and that he doesn't deserve the slating he gets for his work inside the ropes. He is a great asset to the business and I think it will be a sad day when he leaves because of all the assholes booing him for no fucking reason.

 

[Milkyway!]

Sure I am missing the key elements to his in-ring ability. Please, enlighten me.

I'm going to call it the Hogan effect. People don't pay to see John Cena dominate the match, with submission after submission. People don't pay to see John Cena dive from 20 foot ladders. People pay to see John Cena get beat the fuck out of, and sitll coming out with the victory. They pay to see him win in the end, while barely coming out with the victory..

Sure he can draw.

Which is ALL that matters in the professional wrestling world. Its a business, and when it comes to businesses money is all that matters. Hes clearly entertaining, or else he wouldn't draw.

I don't really get to see to much of his in ring abilities because he never has to show them.

Seriously? He wrestles each and every week. Pay attention to the show, and maybe you would see them.

He was much better back on Smackdown. My opinion is, I have seen Hogan before, I don't want a reincarnation of him.

Hes not a Hogan reincarnation. He is John Cena. His promos are a lot diffrent than Hogans, and his wrestling style is more like The Rocks, mixed with a Hogan, mixed with John Cenas.

I don't disrespect the man. I simply say why I don't like him. I never try to justify why everyone should hate him. I just simply say what my problems are with him.

Which are his in-ring skills. Sorry if he doesn't have an arsenal of 1000 moves. You see how far that got Dean Malenko, don't you?

Didn't mention it once in this post.

Its about the only thing you didn't say.

I'm missing a few screws? I will look in to that. In the mean time, you should really sit down and think, "Is Cena that good? Really?"

He entertain me, and he obviously entertains the fans. As merchandise sells, and ratings, and PPV buys are up.

I make plenty of sense. You just didn't have anything else to do when you made this post so you came looking to argue and you knew that I would respond.

Glad to know you know my thought patterns. You're such a good little mind reader. How long with I live?

He has hyped up plenty of matches that have sucked.

Not really.

For example, the last triple threat that he had with Orton and HHH.

That was a damn fine, which served its entertainment purposes. The croud popped huge for Cena, and they seemed to be quite entertained. You're the first person I've ever heard complain about it. Funny.

He came out and said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, this was the main event at WM 24, this is going to be epic and blah blah blah."

I don't think I've ever heard Cena say the words epic. In my life. The only time hes said blah blah blah was when cutting a promo agaisnt Edge, about Edge sucking.

Was it epic, really?

It certainly was rememorable.

He came out before his last match with Trips on Raw and said, "This is a WM calibur main event. Fans you are going to be treated to a classic and blah blah blah."

Which again, was a fine match. It served its entertainment purposes, especially for a free TV show.

Was it classic, really?

Classic? Wouldn't go that far. Was it a fine match, worth remembering? Yes.

IMO he is better than John Cena.

So? The fans seems to disagree. When was the last time Rey Mysterio headlined a WrestleMania? 22 wasn't it? Yeah. Cena has headlined every WrestleMania since WrestleMania 21. Seems to me, that means hes superior to Rey Mysterio.

He is much more entertaining in the ring and his matches with Jericho were some of the best matches of this past year.

Cena's matches with Jericho last year were better, and certainly more entertaining.

I haven't seen Cena have that good of match this year at all. Call me what you will. I am going off of my opinion here.

So theres no factual base behind your arguement? Simply your opinion? Very interesting.

What hasn't he done is a more valid question.

Made the WWE money? Which means the fans don't find him entertaining. As we base how entertaining the fans find someone, by the amount of money one star has generated.

He just has some of the best matches in the WWE right now and he can cut a hell of a promo.

Hes been cutting the same promo for 2 years now....Its quite boring. Even I can call someone a hypocrite.

That's right, he didn't draw as champion and has really never been a big draw for the WWE, except for when he is with DX.

Funny that you say such a thing...Hes drawn quite a large amount of money for the WWE since his return. But not on the scale Cena has. Thats the thing.

He has only saved each and every WM, since his return to the WWE, from being complete and utter shit.

Because we all know one man can make an entire show fun to watch!

I don't care how long he is gone. He is the corner stone of the WWE.

He doesn't entertain anyone for more than half a year...Thats certainly a cornerstone! John Cena is the face of the WWE, the cornerstone, and more.

He is the living legend.

As is John Cena.

He doesn't help guys?

Not really.

He took guys like King Kong Bundy,

The Fatso that never did anything? Considerably the worst Super Heavyweight ever?

Yokozuna,

The guy that Hulk Hogan put over massively? Undertaker had very little to do with Yokozuna's career.

Giant Gonzalez,

Hey! This guys up there with King Kong Bundy.

IRS,

Ted Dibiase made his career, simple as that.

His feud with CM Punk isn't over and he isn't hurting CM Punk.

CM Punk was considered the best thing going in the WWE until he met up with Undertaker. A man that has only taken Punks AMAZING promos, and turned them entirely aimless at no one.

CM Punk will come out on top of 'Taker when their feud is over and CM Punk will be the most credible heel champion in the WWE when this does happen. I guarantee it!

There you go with those psychic abilities again. I truely am amazed.

If I wanted to debate with Slyfox, I would have PM'd him. Really, come up with your own arguements.

I certainly did come up with my own arguements. Slyfox had nothing to do with my post, whatsoever. I can assure you.

By this logic that means that Batista and Jeff Hardy are two of the greatest professional wrestlers today, because they draw well.

Batista isn't drawing shit right now. Jeff Hardy on the otherhand, yes. He could be considered one of the greatest Superstars of this year. The man drew beyond belief, and put on some damn good matches, and cut some damn good promos.

Even though neither can seem to talk on the mic at all and Batista rarely ever has a decent match, except for when he is facing that Undertaker fellow who hurts people more than he helps them.

Completely and entirely an unfair assesment. As Batista pre-2007 was quite a good athlete, in which the fans ate him up. Ever since his return from his first injury, the croud just hasn't been the same twards him.

Jeff Hardy really didn't have good matches either.

Appearantly you missed his matches with CM Punk, Matt Hardy, and Edge? Didn't you?

Also, by this logic, HBK and Bret Hart were completely shit because they are two of the worst drawing champions in the history of the WWF/E.

Bret, yes. Shawn, no. Shawn has made his money, quite well ever since his return. Bret potentially could have killed the WWE, thuogh.

Really, your post seemed like you were just putting shit together just to have an arguement. Is that the case?

Nope.

That is all!

Thank god.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Milky I concede to you. I am done with this ever going circle that is the John Cena thread. Everyone of your arguements are comparable to the elitist theorys and attitudes of Sly. If I wanted to argue with him I would have asked for his info. You took a completely OPINIONATED post of mine and tried to find fact in it. I never claimed that there was any fact to my opinions on Cena. However, I have always said that my opinions on Cena were just that, OPINIONS. This will go on forever and ever. I simply just don't have the energy nor the desire to respond to you at all. It would just go with me quoting your every sentence and then you responding doing the exact same thing and then us disagreeing with each other to no end. Cena can draw which does mean that a majority of fans find him entertaining, however, I personally do not find him entertaining and that is where my posts are coming from. My personal opinions. I am not trying to have an objective debate with you right now, I am simply stating why I don't find Cena entertaining as much as a lot of people do.

Let's just agree to disagree.

That is all!

 

[attitude_era_star]

Cena whether we like it or not is like the new hogan. The kids just love him and he does a great job entertaining them. His character is extremely watered down, he always says the same cheesy crap that the kids love, has the pathetic "you can't see me" saying, does that stupid marine salute or wateva it is when he comes out, has the most terrible enterance music, has developed a strange obsession with this new green gumby look, trys be funny on the mic but is anything but funny, is extremely annoying when he trys to be serious, is not as bad as batista with the obscenely drug enhanced muscles but is getting close, has openly admitted he was the one who pushed for the pg crap which alot of fans have become very annoyed with (selfish move on his part knowing about 99 percent of his fans are either kids or women who only like him for his looks) and is probably the least talented wrestler to ever hold the WWE title (made the title look like a joke when it had that awful spinner thing on it, complete disgrace for a title that genuinely meant something before Cena held it).

 

[SSJPhenom]

Cena whether we like it or not is like the new hogan. The kids just love him and he does a great job entertaining them. His character is extremely watered down, he always says the same cheesy crap that the kids love, has the pathetic "you can't see me" saying, does that stupid marine salute or wateva it is when he comes out, has the most terrible enterance music, has developed a strange obsession with this new green gumby look, trys be funny on the mic but is anything but funny, is extremely annoying when he trys to be serious, is not as bad as batista with the obscenely drug enhanced muscles but is getting close, has openly admitted he was the one who pushed for the pg crap which alot of fans have become very annoyed with (selfish move on his part knowing about 99 percent of his fans are either kids or women who only like him for his looks) and is probably the least talented wrestler to ever hold the WWE title (made the title look like a joke when it had that awful spinner thing on it, complete disgrace for a title that genuinely meant something before Cena held it).

I am not the biggest Cena fan in the world. Everyone knows that, but the level of bullshit that you just said in your post is unbelievable.

His entrance music is alright and I really don't see a problem with his entrance because it is too short to even matter.

He is one of, if not the best in the WWE on the mic. His serious routine is actually outstanding. While I agree that he can come across a little stupid at times while he is trying to be funny, however, last week on Raw, he was actually very entertaining to me. WOW, did I just say that?

Cena looks completely natural to me and is no where even close to looking as fucked up as Batista.

How was it selfish for him to pull of the PG era? The WWE is just trying to change for the times and trust me, Vinny Mac isn't just going to change because of one person. I'm sure that there were more who pulled for the same thing.

Least talented to ever hold the WWE title? Even I have a problem with this statement. Do you not remember Vince McMahon as the WWF champion. IMO, when Cena went on his year long run with the title, he did wonders at bringing back a level of prestige to the title. Who cares how it looks? This spinner belt looks better than Austin's rattlesnake belt.

Did I really just defend Cena? I'm losing my mind!

That is all!

 

[PedigreeTHE619Chokeslam]

This question has been on my mind for a while now. Since i started watching Raw in mid '07 has John Cena ever been pinned. I'm not talking about losing a match, I mean actually pinned 1-2-3 to the mat?

 

[Lee]

This question has been on my mind for a while now. Since i started watching Raw in mid '07 has John Cena ever been pinned. I'm not talking about losing a match, I mean actually pinned 1-2-3 to the mat?

Yes, I can think of two examples...he was pinned by Carilto and by K-Fed both were when he was pretty over...Orton has, Edge has. That's four off the top of my mind there. Hope that helps you.

 

[The Todd]

This question has been on my mind for a while now. Since i started watching Raw in mid '07 has John Cena ever been pinned. I'm not talking about losing a match, I mean actually pinned 1-2-3 to the mat?

To add on what Mr. L has already stated, he was pinned, cleanly, by HBK before Ruyal Rumble whilst he was the Champion. The Champ should never be pinned on TV, he is meant to be the top dog. He lost cleanly. Pretty big example for you.

 

[Miko]

Not to mention Orton pinned him twice during one of his shitty title reigns, WrestleMania and Backlash I believe

 

[SSJPhenom]

Ah, back to my old stomping grounds...

This post is to call out SavageTaker...

I believe we were talking about Cena's matches and how I believe that they were mediocre at best. So, let's get to it.

Cena's matches, for the most part, are horrible. Especially this year. What matches has Cena had, this year, that have been note worthy? With Cena, it is the same dance week in and week out. Now, I'm not going to comment on his signatures because that song has been played out. What I am going to comment on is how utterly boring and stale his matches really are.

Let's look at his most recent work. We will start with that cluster fuck that was his Summer Slam match against Randy Orton. It was horrible. The match, the ending, the entire thing was just icky. We had Orton dominate the entire match (I'm sure that eveyone that will respond to this post will say that this is basic heel/face psychology, but I challenge them to find me another example of this as often as we see it from Cena or Hogan) which is the case in just about any Cena match. Of course, Cena responded with his signatures and appeared as if he was going to win, but Orton schemed his way out of the match. I'm not going to give a full synopsis of what happened. We all know what happened, however, my point is that of their last three matches, this was their best match and that is bad.

Breaking Point was more of Cena getting the fuck beat out of him and coming back to win, just like everyone knew he would. The story of this match was Cena wouldn't quit and they portrayed that story well, however the match itself, when compared to I Quit matches of the past, was horrible. Even if we didn't compare, it would still be horrible. I mean just how slow the match was going, and Cena getting his shit kicked for the entire match, save for that one offensive flurry that he had that won him the match. It was ridiculous and horrible to watch.

Hell in a Cell actually seen more of Cena offensively and this really could have been a great match, however, the two of them just wouldn't go there. I understand that we are in the PG era of the WWE, however, they at least could have used the cage or something to that affect. I can't really recall Cena using any weapons what so ever. When this match is compared to the main even HIAC match, it is awful. It took away from what a Hell in a Cell should be. If WWE can't go there anymore, then they should do away with this concept completely and spar us all.

Those are my thoughts on his most recent matches. I could talk about more his matches from this year, but why bother. It is more of the same. Cena gets his ass beat all night and comes back with one offensive flurry either to win or get cheated. I think that his Cell match with Orton was Orton's only clean win against Cena. That's horrible.

So again I ask, what has Cena done this year that has been note worthy?

 

[SavageTaker]

Cena's matches, for the most part, are horrible. Especially this year.

You want a horrible match? Go watch most of the matches Khali has had, those are horrible matches. What Cena has had are not horrible matches.

What matches has Cena had, this year, that have been note worthy?

You act as though I said he had a noteworthy year…

With Cena, it is the same dance week in and week out.

And you hate him for that, correct? If so, then you must hate most other wrestlers…including the Undertaker.

Let's look at his most recent work. We will start with that cluster fuck that was his Summer Slam match against Randy Orton.

I’ll admit that the ending was a big clusterfuck and I even mentioned that it was in a thread made after the match happened. However, I don’t think the match itself was a clusterfuck.

It was horrible. The match, the ending, the entire thing was just icky.

So we are agreeing that the ending was horrible, but I don’t see how that has anything to do with Cena. Vince McMahon (You know, the guy that writes the matches and has the final say on everything) is the one that allowed for the ending to occur so he should be the one to blame for that, not Cena.

We had Orton dominate the entire match (I'm sure that eveyone that will respond to this post will say that this is basic heel/face psychology, but I challenge them to find me another example of this as often as we see it from Cena or Hogan) which is the case in just about any Cena match.

You act as though there’s something wrong with that. It makes Orton look stronger in the eyes of the majority of fans if he is able to dominate Cena for the majority of the match.

Of course, Cena responded with his signatures and appeared as if he was going to win, but Orton schemed his way out of the match. I'm not going to give a full synopsis of what happened. We all know what happened, however, my point is that of their last three matches, this was their best match and that is bad.

I actually thought that the match for the most part was okay. It was nothing special but it wasn’t really bad either. It was an average match.

Breaking Point was more of Cena getting the fuck beat out of him and coming back to win, just like everyone knew he would. The story of this match was Cena wouldn't quit and they portrayed that story well,

So he accomplished his job then.

however the match itself, when compared to I Quit matches of the past, was horrible. Even if we didn't compare, it would still be horrible.

Why do you need to compare his matches to other matches in the past? It’s like trying to compare apples to oranges.

I mean just how slow the match was going, and Cena getting his shit kicked for the entire match, save for that one offensive flurry that he had that won him the match.

All of that was part of the story.

It was ridiculous and horrible to watch.

I saw people enjoying that match, you might be in the minority.

Hell in a Cell actually seen more of Cena offensively and this really could have been a great match, however, the two of them just wouldn't go there. I understand that we are in the PG era of the WWE, however, they at least could have used the cage or something to that affect.

Let me ask you this question, who writes the matches and books the shows? Whoever you guess, if it’s the right answer, will be the answer as to why Cena does some things and doesn’t do other things.

I can't really recall Cena using any weapons what so ever.

Maybe because he doesn’t need to use them in order to be entertaining?

When this match is compared to the main even HIAC match, it is awful. It took away from what a Hell in a Cell should be. If WWE can't go there anymore, then they should do away with this concept completely and spar us all.

They’ll do whatever they want. If people are still attending the pay per view and they are getting a good amount of ppv buys then they’ll keep the concept because the majority still likes it.

So again I ask, what has Cena done this year that has been note worthy?

Did I ever claim he had a noteworthy year?

 

[SSJPhenom]

You want a horrible match? Go watch most of the matches Khali has had, those are horrible matches. What Cena has had are not horrible matches.

I will agree that Khali's matches are horrible, however, we aren't talking about Khali. Compared to what Cena can do and has done in the past, this has been a horrible year for him.

You act as though I said he had a noteworthy year…

No, you never said that he has had a noteworthy year, however, you, among others, act as if everything he does is ok. He is aloud to have horrible matches and a horrible year, but let someone else have a horrible match or two and it's IWC hate time.

And you hate him for that, correct? If so, then you must hate most other wrestlers…including the Undertaker.

Among other things, yes. It's not even about his in ring work at this point. It's about his stale and boring main events with Randy Orton. It's about how bland his character is starting to become. If he loses at Bragging Rights, it will solve 2/3's of the problems that I have with Cena.

I’ll admit that the ending was a big clusterfuck and I even mentioned that it was in a thread made after the match happened. However, I don’t think the match itself was a clusterfuck.

Perhaps I went a bit far to call the match itself a clusterfuck, however, I do think that the match was sub par. They should have been able to deliver a much better performance than that.

So we are agreeing that the ending was horrible, but I don’t see how that has anything to do with Cena. Vince McMahon (You know, the guy that writes the matches and has the final say on everything) is the one that allowed for the ending to occur so he should be the one to blame for that, not Cena.

Don't start going on a rampage about it's Cena's booking and not him. If we allow him to use that excuse, then we should use for everyone shouldn't we? Example, in the early 90's 'Taker was booked with some pretty horrible oppenents in Yokozuna, Giant Gonzalez, King Kong Bundy, Kamala, Papa Shango, and others. 'Taker was always able to make the fans give a shit about the matches and he was able to make the matches memorable. Don't blame the booking because in the end, it is Cena that has to go out and perform.

You act as though there’s something wrong with that. It makes Orton look stronger in the eyes of the majority of fans if he is able to dominate Cena for the majority of the match.

Yes, it makes Orton look stronger, however, it makes Cena look weak. Except of course until he does his signatures of doom and gets the win off of his only offense the entire match.

I actually thought that the match for the most part was okay. It was nothing special but it wasn’t really bad either. It was an average match.

And the face of the company should be able to deliver more than just average night in and night out.

So he accomplished his job then.

For the most part, yes.

Why do you need to compare his matches to other matches in the past? It’s like trying to compare apples to oranges.

When you have a gimmick match, what else can you judge it by? The only alternative is to go by the same type of gimmick matches from the past.

All of that was part of the story.

The story could have been portrayed better than that.

I saw people enjoying that match, you might be in the minority.

I'm sure that some people did, however, I didn't and the people around me didn't.

Let me ask you this question, who writes the matches and books the shows? Whoever you guess, if it’s the right answer, will be the answer as to why Cena does some things and doesn’t do other things.

Again with the booking.

Maybe because he doesn’t need to use them in order to be entertaining?

In a Cell match? Me thinks he does.

They’ll do whatever they want. If people are still attending the pay per view and they are getting a good amount of ppv buys then they’ll keep the concept because the majority still likes it.

I understand that they will do whatever sells, but be honest. Did you enjoy their Cell match? The watered down Cell match that they had? Come on, you along with a lot of other people were expecting more from them than that.

Did I ever claim he had a noteworthy year?

No, but again you act as if whatever he does is ok because he is Cena.

That is all!

 

[SavageTaker]

I will agree that Khali's matches are horrible, however, we aren't talking about Khali. Compared to what Cena can do and has done in the past, this has been a horrible year for him.

I really don’t see how this has been a horrible year for him. Yeah, it hasn’t been the best for him but it also hasn’t been a horrible one either. Want someone who has had a horrible year? Then look no further than Chavo Guerrero.

No, you never said that he has had a noteworthy year, however, you, among others, act as if everything he does is ok.

Do you have evidence of me acting as if everything he does is ok?

He is aloud to have horrible matches and a horrible year,

Like I said, I don’t think he has had a horrible year. Anyways, I also never said he wasn’t allowed to. I don’t care if people have horrible years/matches. It happens. Just take the Gail Kim vs. Mickie James match a few weeks/months ago. It was horrible, but in the thread that was made about it, I said something about how it happens to wrestlers. They can’t always have great matches…but when they don’t I just hope that the next match is good. And I continue hoping until I see that things aren’t going to change.

It’s the same thing with Cena. When I see him have a horrible match, I hope that the next one is going to be a good one because I know he is capable of having good matches.

but let someone else have a horrible match or two and it's IWC hate time.

It’s not up to me what the rest of IWC do and don’t do.

Among other things, yes. It's not even about his in ring work at this point. It's about his stale and boring main events with Randy Orton. It's about how bland his character is starting to become. If he loses at Bragging Rights, it will solve 2/3's of the problems that I have with Cena.

Then you hate on the wrong person. He isn’t the one backstage telling everyone what matches are going to happen and which ones aren’t. Vince is the one that writes the shows, Cena just follows his orders like he is supposed to do.

Perhaps I went a bit far to call the match itself a clusterfuck, however, I do think that the match was sub par. They should have been able to deliver a much better performance than that.

I don’t think the match was anything special either. But then again, I wasn’t expecting anything from it either because of how boring Orton is.

Don't start going on a rampage about it's Cena's booking and not him. If we allow him to use that excuse, then we should use for everyone shouldn't we?

You can’t use that excuse for everyone though. There are wrestlers who influence Vince’s decisions and in other companies in the past, such as WCW, there were wrestlers who had creative control in their contracts. Do you see where I am getting at?

Example, in the early 90's 'Taker was booked with some pretty horrible oppenents in Yokozuna, Giant Gonzalez, King Kong Bundy, Kamala, Papa Shango, and others.

I’ll agree that they were all terrible except for Yoko…

'Taker was always able to make the fans give a shit about the matches and he was able to make the matches memorable.

Where is your evidence of this? I’ve tried watching ‘Taker matches from his early days in the WWF and not many times have I given a shit about those matches. And I’m a huge Undertaker fan!

Don't blame the booking because in the end, it is Cena that has to go out and perform.

I’ll blame the booking all I want. The bookers/writers tell him and other wrestlers what they want and how they want it to be done. He is for the most part just following his boss’s orders.

And the face of the company should be able to deliver more than just average night in and night out.

They shouldn’t always have to deliver because sometimes they try but they just have nights that they don’t do so well in. Like I said, it happens to everyone. As long as he is always trying then I think it’s okay if he has a bad night every once in a while.

When you have a gimmick match, what else can you judge it by? The only alternative is to go by the same type of gimmick matches from the past.

You can judge it by who is wrestling in the match. If take for example, Khali vs. Hornswaggle in an Ironman match, you’re not going to judge it based on another Ironman match. You’re going to judge it by who is in the match. In this case, you could tell it would be a terrible thing to watch. But if it’s Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker, then you know it would probably be good. See what I’m saying?

In a Cell match? Me thinks he does.

Not always though. The usage of weapons just adds to the match, it doesn’t make the match. If he or any other wrestler needs to use weapons in order to have good matches, then he must not be that good to begin with.

I understand that they will do whatever sells, but be honest. Did you enjoy their Cell match? The watered down Cell match that they had? Come on, you along with a lot of other people were expecting more from them than that.

I thought the match was okay and was entertaining in some parts. Overall though, the match just wasn’t good and I honestly wasn’t expecting for it to be good.

No, but again you act as if whatever he does is ok because he is Cena.

You’ve said this for the second time already; care to show me some evidence of me doing that?

That is all!

Not really.

 

[Paradox]

Ah, back to my old stomping grounds...

Ah me as well...

This post is to call out SavageTaker...

Well I'm getting in on this as well...

I believe we were talking about Cena's matches and how I believe that they were mediocre at best. So, let's get to it.

And what matches this year have been good? In your opinion then?

Cena's matches, for the most part, are horrible. Especially this year.

As ST said look at Khali you want horrible go no further. Cena is far from horrible.

What matches has Cena had, this year, that have been note worthy?

Shall we take a look. His match with Shawn Michaels earlier in the year was very good, not as good as their past encounters, but still a very solid match. What about his elimination chamber match? It was a very good match as well, to deny that would be stupid. It was an fast pace enjoyable match. That had an ending that you didn't see coming. The triple threat match at Mania wasn't as bad as people said it was. I've gone back two or three times and watched the match. The only reason people were so down on that match was because of what match it just came after. It's hard to be remembered as a good match when you follow an all time classic. Then you have his match with Swagger. That is probably the last time that Swagger look like a legit contender. He had a series of match with Miz that brought him up from a nobody as a singles competitor, to a legit mid-card talent. I'm not going to go into his last couple of major matches, because they've been booked horribly.

With Cena, it is the same dance week in and week out.

Look above.....

Now, I'm not going to comment on his signatures because that song has been played out. What I am going to comment on is how utterly boring and stale his matches really are.

okay, sure....

Let's look at his most recent work. We will start with that cluster fuck that was his Summer Slam match against Randy Orton. It was horrible. The match, the ending, the entire thing was just icky. We had Orton dominate the entire match

Haven't we been over this?

(I'm sure that eveyone that will respond to this post will say that this is basic heel/face psychology, but I challenge them to find me another example of this as often as we see it from Cena or Hogan)

Yep I thought so. Isn't this the time that I gave you a list of guys and matches in which this happened, and yet you still didn't agree with me? Yep that's right I have proven you wrong here on many occasions, and you don't care to hear it.

which is the case in just about any Cena match. Of course,

blah blah blah blah, that's false and you know it.

Cena responded with his signatures and appeared as if he was going to win, but Orton schemed his way out of the match. I'm not going to give a full synopsis of what happened. We all know what happened, however, my point is that of their last three matches, this was their best match and that is bad.

I didn't think that it was their best match. It was an extreme case of over booking. They wanted to do more than was needed for the match, it's not either of their faults. That's on creative.

Breaking Point was more of Cena getting the fuck beat out of him and coming back to win, just like everyone knew he would.

Did you honestly expect him to lose? This was the case in the last I Quit Match he was in. JBL dominated the match, and Cena came back. Only real difference was the fact that their was blood in that match. Now I will agree the ending of this match sucked. It made Orton look weak, really weak. Who's fault is that? Not Cena's creatives. They have a set ending that has been planned out for them. They go out there and handle everything else. I also have a feeling that it was a rushed finish as they were running out of time.

The story of this match was Cena wouldn't quit and they portrayed that story well, however the match itself, when compared to I Quit matches of the past, was horrible. Even if we didn't compare, it would still be horrible. I mean just how slow the match was going, and Cena getting his shit kicked for the entire match, save for that one offensive flurry that he had that won him the match. It was ridiculous and horrible to watch.

I'm not disagree with you, compared to past matches it was nothing. We expect so match from those types of matches. I believe that Cena JBL set the level for this type of match, and it's not going to be reached. Though as I said before I believe it was rushed.

Hell in a Cell actually seen more of Cena offensively and this really could have been a great match, however, the two of them just wouldn't go there. I understand that we are in the PG era of the WWE, however, they at least could have used the cage or something to that affect. I can't really recall Cena using any weapons what so ever. When this match is compared to the main even HIAC match, it is awful. It took away from what a Hell in a Cell should be. If WWE can't go there anymore, then they should do away with this concept completely and spar us all.

Didn't watch it so I can't comment...

Those are my thoughts on his most recent matches. I could talk about more his matches from this year, but why bother. It is more of the same. Cena gets his ass beat all night and comes back with one offensive flurry either to win or get cheated. I think that his Cell match with Orton was Orton's only clean win against Cena. That's horrible.

I love how you go on about his matches with Orton, who doesn't work well in the ring with anyone, besides The Undertaker. Cena had some good matches earlier this year. I listed them above, though you are going to say they are the same old same old. Which is not the case. On a side note, name one good match this year that Orton has had?

So again I ask, what has Cena done this year that has been note worthy?

Listed above....

 

[SSJPhenom]

I really don’t see how this has been a horrible year for him. Yeah, it hasn’t been the best for him but it also hasn’t been a horrible one either. Want someone who has had a horrible year? Then look no further than Chavo Guerrero.

Can't argue with the Chavo comment. However, compared to Cena's 2007 year, this year is just absolutely not good enough. I even enjoyed Cena in '07.

Do you have evidence of me acting as if everything he does is ok?

Not really, however, it's the way you post. When Cena does something awful or horrible, you people are quick to defend him, however, let HBK, HHH, even 'Taker do something that might be questionable and it's hate time. Example, after 'Taker/Punk HIAC, I read so many posts about how awful that match was and such. I agree, the match was awful, but I really didn't see any posts on how awful the Cena/Orton HIAC was when it was no better at all.

Like I said, I don’t think he has had a horrible year. Anyways, I also never said he wasn’t allowed to. I don’t care if people have horrible years/matches. It happens. Just take the Gail Kim vs. Mickie James match a few weeks/months ago. It was horrible, but in the thread that was made about it, I said something about how it happens to wrestlers. They can’t always have great matches…but when they don’t I just hope that the next match is good. And I continue hoping until I see that things aren’t going to change.

Well Cena has delivered 3 back to back horrible PPV main events. How many more do you need to see that things aren't going to change?

It’s the same thing with Cena. When I see him have a horrible match, I hope that the next one is going to be a good one because I know he is capable of having good matches.

I agree. I know he is capable of a lot better than what we have seen thus far. I hope that his match with HHH next week will be awesome and God I hope that Orton doesn't interfere in it.

It’s not up to me what the rest of IWC do and don’t do.

Agreed.

Then you hate on the wrong person. He isn’t the one backstage telling everyone what matches are going to happen and which ones aren’t. Vince is the one that writes the shows, Cena just follows his orders like he is supposed to do.

Again with the booking. Ok then, so we can't blame Chavo for his horrible year then because it is the writers and such that have booked him with Hornswaggle. I understand what you mean. I know that they have to do what they are told, but at the end of the day, I know that it is the performers who have to go out and perform. Do you think that WWE maps out the entirety of every single little punch and kick? They don't. The performers do have some freedom when they are out there.

I don’t think the match was anything special either. But then again, I wasn’t expecting anything from it either because of how boring Orton is.

I was. Their first SS match was good. Why couldn't this one be?

You can’t use that excuse for everyone though. There are wrestlers who influence Vince’s decisions and in other companies in the past, such as WCW, there were wrestlers who had creative control in their contracts. Do you see where I am getting at?

Ok, so if HHH has a bad match, we blame HHH because he is Vince's son in law. If Cena has a bad match, then it's bookings fault. I see what you're saying and I call bullshit. It isn't fair to hold one performer accountable for something and not another. If we can blame booking for Cena, then it must apply for everyone. This isn't WCW and I am sure that Vince has the final say one everything.

I’ll agree that they were all terrible except for Yoko…

Yoko wasn't good either.

Where is your evidence of this? I’ve tried watching ‘Taker matches from his early days in the WWF and not many times have I given a shit about those matches. And I’m a huge Undertaker fan!

Not a bigger fan than myself and do you want proof. Watch any of his matches against the people that I named. You will hear the fans yell and scream as much as they do for the main event. 'Taker was always able to make the fans get into the match. Just because you don't get into them now, watching them back, doesn't mean that 'Taker didn't get the job done. If you had have watched as a kid, originally, like I did, you might have a different point of view.

I’ll blame the booking all I want. The bookers/writers tell him and other wrestlers what they want and how they want it to be done. He is for the most part just following his boss’s orders.

Answered this above.

They shouldn’t always have to deliver because sometimes they try but they just have nights that they don’t do so well in. Like I said, it happens to everyone. As long as he is always trying then I think it’s okay if he has a bad night every once in a while.

You don't just go out there and have a bad night 3 PPV's in a row though. I understand that they aren't perfect, but come on. Do you think HBK would go out there and just have a bad night? All of his matches with Legacy have been solid and have been better than anything that we have seen from Orton/Cena.

You can judge it by who is wrestling in the match. If take for example, Khali vs. Hornswaggle in an Ironman match, you’re not going to judge it based on another Ironman match. You’re going to judge it by who is in the match. In this case, you could tell it would be a terrible thing to watch. But if it’s Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker, then you know it would probably be good. See what I’m saying?

Yes I see what you are saying and it does make sense. However, Orton and Cena are considered two of the best in the world today. If we can't hold them to a high standard, then wrestling really is going to hell. See what I am saying?

Not always though. The usage of weapons just adds to the match, it doesn’t make the match. If he or any other wrestler needs to use weapons in order to have good matches, then he must not be that good to begin with.

Shawn Michaels or 'Taker don't need weapons, however, when they are in that kind of match, they use them and it does make the match better. Cena should have went there and the match would have already been better.

I thought the match was okay and was entertaining in some parts. Overall though, the match just wasn’t good and I honestly wasn’t expecting for it to be good.

Why weren't you though? Again, Cena and Orton are considered two of the best in the world today. Shouldn't we expect big thing when they lock up. We did when it was Austin and The Rock.

Not really.

You're right, now......

That is all!

 

[SavageTaker]

However, compared to Cena's 2007 year, this year is just absolutely not good enough. I even enjoyed Cena in '07.

If we are going to be comparing this year so far to other years, then yes, it hasn’t been the best of years for him. I still don’t think it has been horrible though.

Not really, however, it's the way you post. When Cena does something awful or horrible, you people are quick to defend him, however, let HBK, HHH, even 'Taker do something that might be questionable and it's hate time.

Please show me posts of me hating on HBK, HHH, and ‘Taker. Please do so. I actually try to defend them every time I can. I actually like them all. Maybe other people do that, but I don’t recall me hating on them when they do something questionable.

Example, after 'Taker/Punk HIAC, I read so many posts about how awful that match was and such. I agree, the match was awful, but I really didn't see any posts on how awful the Cena/Orton HIAC was when it was no better at all.

What does this have to do with me? I can’t force people to enjoy those matches or force them to post a certain way.

Well Cena has delivered 3 back to back horrible PPV main events.

I don’t think any of those main events were horrible, they weren’t good but they weren’t horrible either.

How many more do you need to see that things aren't going to change?

Once I stop enjoying the matches Cena has on Raw AND on pay per views, that’s when I’ll realize things aren’t going to change anytime soon.

Ok then, so we can't blame Chavo for his horrible year then because it is the writers and such that have booked him with Hornswaggle.

Yep.

I understand what you mean. I know that they have to do what they are told, but at the end of the day, I know that it is the performers who have to go out and perform. Do you think that WWE maps out the entirety of every single little punch and kick? They don't.

They don’t map out the matches move by move, but they tell them what they want to see and what they need to do. Cena just follows his orders. It would be a completely different story if Cena wasn’t good because that means that you cannot blame creative since Cena wouldn’t be able to deliver on what he is asked to do.

I was. Their first SS match was good. Why couldn't this one be?

I wish I could give you an answer; unfortunately I can’t because I don’t know it.

Ok, so if HHH has a bad match, we blame HHH because he is Vince's son in law.

No, we don’t blame him because he is Vince’s son in law. We would blame if he had an input on how the match should go.

If Cena has a bad match, then it's bookings fault.

Sometimes it’s their fault and sometimes it’s his fault. If he has a bad match when creative gave him great instructions, then it is his fault for not being able to deliver.

It isn't fair to hold one performer accountable for something and not another.

It is fair if some wrestlers have a say on how their matches go and if others don’t have a say.

If we can blame booking for Cena, then it must apply for everyone.

Look above.

This isn't WCW and I am sure that Vince has the final say one everything.

Remember though, some wrestlers can influence his decision. If they are able to influence his decisions enough to change a match to the way they want it to go, then if the match ends up being horrible it would be the wrestlers fault.

Yoko wasn't good either.

I thought he was decent for his size. But that’s not for here nor there.

Not a bigger fan than myself and do you want proof. Watch any of his matches against the people that I named. You will hear the fans yell and scream as much as they do for the main event. 'Taker was always able to make the fans get into the match. Just because you don't get into them now, watching them back, doesn't mean that 'Taker didn't get the job done. If you had have watched as a kid, originally, like I did, you might have a different point of view.

I honestly thought he began being interesting at around the time the attitude era started/ But like I said above, this discussion isn’t for here nor there.

You don't just go out there and have a bad night 3 PPV's in a row though. I understand that they aren't perfect, but come on.

It’s possible. You don’t know what he is dealing with or anything about his personal life.

Do you think HBK would go out there and just have a bad night?

He has had them before and I don’t hold it against him because sometimes it just happens.

Yes I see what you are saying and it does make sense. However, Orton and Cena are considered two of the best in the world today. If we can't hold them to a high standard, then wrestling really is going to hell. See what I am saying?

Oh please, wrestling isn’t going to hell as long as there are younger stars getting pushed.

Shawn Michaels or 'Taker don't need weapons, however, when they are in that kind of match, they use them and it does make the match better. Cena should have went there and the match would have already been better.

Like I said, the use of weapons adds to the match but doesn’t always mean it’s going to make the match good or better.

Why weren't you though? Again, Cena and Orton are considered two of the best in the world today. Shouldn't we expect big thing when they lock up. We did when it was Austin and The Rock.

Because I haven’t really been entertained by most of their previous matches and because I find Orton to be incredibly boring therefore I don’t expect good and intense matches from anyone that has to wrestle Orton.

 

[Paradox]

ST, if you don't mind I'm going to cut in on something of the things that he said...

Not really, however, it's the way you post. When Cena does something awful or horrible, you people are quick to defend him, however, let HBK, HHH, even 'Taker do something that might be questionable and it's hate time.

I can't remember a time that many have done that. I know I've been critical, but I'm critical of everyone. You know that. I've gone on about 'Taker, HBK, Triple h, hell not to long ago I went off about Cena. Did you miss that? I did.

Example, after 'Taker/Punk HIAC, I read so many posts about how awful that match was and such. I agree, the match was awful, but I really didn't see any posts on how awful the Cena/Orton HIAC was when it was no better at all.

I didn't watch it so I'm not going to comment on how bad. Now I know people have been bashing it, Though if you haven't noticed, as of late people have been extremely critical of 'Taker.

Well Cena has delivered 3 back to back horrible PPV main events. How many more do you need to see that things aren't going to change?

...... One was overbooked to the max. If you couldn't see that then well I'm sorry. The Breaking point match wasn't horrible, it was decent, not the best, but certainly not the worse. Or as bad as you've been making it out to be. Hell in a Cell didn't watch so can't say.

I agree. I know he is capable of a lot better than what we have seen thus far. I hope that his match with HHH next week will be awesome and God I hope that Orton doesn't interfere in it.

Agreed.

Again with the booking. Ok then, so we can't blame Chavo for his horrible year then because it is the writers and such that have booked him with Hornswaggle. I understand what you mean.

Do you? Because no matter how much we try and tell you that with Cena it goes in one ear and out the other.

I know that they have to do what they are told, but at the end of the day, I know that it is the performers who have to go out and perform. Do you think that WWE maps out the entirety of every single little punch and kick? They don't. The performers do have some freedom when they are out there.

Yeah I didn't think you did. If we used that logic the why can't Chavo pull off a five star segment with Horny? Yes it's up to the talent, I'm the first to admit Cena looks ridiculous at points. But look how he's been booked for the past month. He gets the crapped beat out of him by Jericho and Show, only to get Orton in the Cell? That makes no sense. That isn't him that's creative shitting on everyone, by not coming up with a creative way to get him and Orton in the cell to begin with. I've been highly critical of creative for the better part of this year. It's insane what they've been doing.

I was. Their first SS match was good. Why couldn't this one be?

Their first one was. The reason was they were allowed to have a match. Not some over hyped screwed senseless high school soap opera. That's all that was.

Ok, so if HHH has a bad match, we blame HHH because he is Vince's son in law. If Cena has a bad match, then it's bookings fault.

How many times have come here and defended his matches against you before SS? All summer. I was telling you how he was having solid matches, while you said they were crap. Only since SummerSlam have I been talking about booking. Really its becoming an issue when I'm getting annoyed with the way Cena comes back sometimes.

I see what you're saying and I call bullshit. It isn't fair to hold one performer accountable for something and not another. If we can blame booking for Cena, then it must apply for everyone. This isn't WCW and I am sure that Vince has the final say one everything.

No it isn't. Have you seen booking lately? The only match from HIAC that I saw was DX vs Legacy. That was shit... I mean really let's have one guy get the shit kicked out of him then get locked out of the cage. Mean while let his partner get the you know what kicked out of him to the point he's bearly able to walk. Only be able to help his partner when he comes and gets back in. How the hell does that work? I'm being extremely fair. Booking has been going down hill since Mania. Now it's involving Cena, and yet you're still telling me that it's his fault. That's bullshit!!!

You don't just go out there and have a bad night 3 PPV's in a row though. I understand that they aren't perfect, but come on. Do you think HBK would go out there and just have a bad night? All of his matches with Legacy have been solid and have been better than anything that we have seen from Orton/Cena.

Really? I'm not saying that Cena and Orton have been great or amazing, but I haven't been impressed by any of Legacy DX matches. Well maybe the Breaking Point match, but still. They weren't amazing.... Cena vs Orton hasn't been good because of the booking... Look you have a clusterfuck at summerslam that was pointless. Then you have Cena get the holy hell beat out of him to turn around in three minute beat Orton. How does that make Orton look? Terrible, he just quit to a man he dominated for the majority of the match. (Personally I though they were out of time) HIAC? What's the point of having Cena win the belt and make Orton look weak only for him to come back and go over Cena? WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY DOING? They are making both men look weak... It makes no sense. You can't deny that...

Yes I see what you are saying and it does make sense. However, Orton and Cena are considered two of the best in the world today. If we can't hold them to a high standard, then wrestling really is going to hell. See what I am saying?

I do, but I never thought that Orton is that great... I've challenged you to name me a match that he had this year that was good and you still haven't...