The *Official* John Cena Thread

[Southwind]

I respect John Cena immensely and think that he sets a good example for the WWE by working extremely hard. However I believe some people on these boards overrated and protect him more than necessary.

His character is tired he has had the same basis of this character since 2005 which is my problem with Edge as well but this isn't an Edge thread.

He can wrestle despite what others say my biggest issue with Cena is his obnoxious promos when he cuts down young talent like Legacy this week.

What the heck was all that for anyways ? Cena comes out there and pretty much craps on Dibiase and Rhodes then setting up a match where they lose apparently I'm not getting things here.

The only way Cena's obnoxious promo would make any sense is if Ted and Cody started taking his words to heart and telling Orton that they want to be worthy of a title shot etc.

Somehow I doubt that happens though and Cena will be more than happy to make young talent look like a joke in front of the "WWE Universe".

What a joke !

 

[Suneeboy]

I kinda agree and disagree. I think to say he has no attitude or edge is a bit of a stretch. Just think back to his promos of about a year and a half or so when he feuded with Edge. Or better yet, before the PG era. I don't hate the PG era so much but it does limit what he can do as compared to before. I do think he needs a fresh character though. I love the idea of that "mean streak" you mentioned above, and I think a heel turn would facilitate that beautifully. It sounds like maybe you agree that he's limited by what Vince and Co. expect of him. And just to poke a little fun, I think maybe you were talking about the Rock's promo's lol!! Glad to see there is at least someone on here who appreciates Cena's work ethic though

Well he doesn't have any edge. He is not intimidating or imposing to his opponents. The only thing he doesn't do to his opponents is shake their hand, and help them up after the match is over.

He may be limited due to Vince, but he seems to enjoy his character, which is what I think in turn turns people off. I used to think turning heel would be the answer, but I don't think so. He is better as a face, and it comes natural. He just needs a mean streak. The character doesn't possess a killer instinct, which is why I am not a Cena fan. The character is too much of a "goody too shoes" for me, but the guy is awesome in the ring and continually puts on a great show.

The Rock is synonymous with the word promo to me. In opinion he is the greatest of all time in the business on the stick. I am a sucker for a promo. Have mic skills and I am sold on you for life. He is the bar that I measure great promos by.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Cena is a hard worker and is mega over as a face, I have to agree that he is too goody two shoes for most people. Hogan was kinda the same way in the 80's with the prayers and vitamins, but at least he had a catch phrase with some intensity through out his promos. Cena talks to wrestlers like he is an old man. "Listen sonny in order to get a match with me you have to earn it"

He comes across like a cartoon character when he is doing impressions and making funny faces. He has the ability and the skills to make great promos. He has intensity. He just needs to stop catering to children and actually cut intense promos like he has a pair. He needs to act like a bad ass, not like a magician at a kid's birthday party.

 

[jackhammer_27]

All great points and I agree with alot of what is being said. I just hate the fact that he's been saddled with this character. He is, as has been stated before, a company man and love that or hate it about him, he's doing a fairly admirable job with what he is able to do in this PG era and as what creative has dictated he make his character. As for that Legacy promo he cut on Rhodes and DiBiase, I wonder how much of that was Cena, and how much was creative. I just think in this environment and era, he just needs to turn heel. Leave the superhero behind and just use that work ethic and passion and build up a really great new bad guy persona.

 

[LigerBomb]

Cena is a terrible wrestler... but he's a great worker i.e., a cash cow, which is what matters most. I won't be bothered to be drawn into an argument of semantics however. I agree a John McClain approach would be good as it would humanize him, but truthfully he doesn't always win or come out unscathed these days so it's more a measure of degrees than an about face turn. His mic work is forced but for the audience he panders to it's acceptable. Many times I can tell what he's try to do yet IMO he constantly seem to fall short. The best way to describe this is by relating it to telling a joke. The delivery has as much important as the punch-line and that is the sign of a truly talented comic/comedian. The Rock and Austin (and for my personal tastes Mick Foley) were hard workers on the mic but they were also naturals, meanwhile Cena just pours his tremendous work ethic into it and does an amiable job yet fails to transcend his current status and approach the levels of the above mentioned performers.
Bottom line he's doing a fine job as is and any minor tweaks as mentioned above would probably only produce a marginal change at best perhaps making it a moot point all together.

 

[travoltage]

I like the fact that Cena exists...I like the fact that he is a constant main eventer...lemme tell you why...in the mid 90s no one gave a crap about Superman...gritty comics with flawed dark characters were all the rage (ie. Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Deadpool etc) Superman was considered passe...too "boy scout-white bread" to be considered hip....until his death...then EVERYONE went out and bought that Death of Superman comic. Nobody wanted to know about him until he was "gone"...of course he was brought back and soon hip artists and writers took on telling Superman stories and sales picked up drastically...my point is this...to tell great morality stories, you need that boy scout...sure everyone would love to be the cool badass (Taker, Edge, SCSA,Orton) but it can get redundant...In the past we had Hogan, Sting, Steamboat...well I like this era having Cena...if they could come up with a "Death of Superman" for John Cena, his stories would become interesting and casual and non fans would flock to wrestling like they did to comics

 

[ck-g2006]

Cena is a great work, though i agree with a two comments made earlier, he does need a mean streak, and a heel turn and i think his gimmick should be similar to stone cold thats with gimmick they gave cena.. but i think he will be a babyface for a long while

 

[Chess]

I am sorry to say that I completely disagree with the original poster. Cena is himself, it has nothing to do with creative how bland he is. Remember before PG when he was a rapper. He was unbelievably cheesy, even when he released his own album, again before PG, no offensive language, no smut nothing apart from child friendly rhymes.
Cena cannot wrestle, his STF is the weakest looking submission hold I have ever seen; remember when the Big Slow tapped to it, he didn't even have t locked in.
The best thing I have seen from Cena was his movie and he even cheesed it up in that. Even if creative try to make him meaner with some attitude, I just don't think he can pull it off. Cena just has no personality. He needs his attiude adjusted!!

 

[Blade]

I wish there was some other way to say this but, *sigh* it takes two to tango.
Creative gives a wrestler his material, it's the wrestler's job to make it work.

You can blame Cena for his in-ring work. That's (almost) all him. But everyone knows his promos and antics are scripted, they come from the writers. Cena is a professional and is a great worker. He tries to make all the stuff work. But the material is so... Bland that the fans get pissed off at it. It's not 1987, fans won't get behind a mega-face.

But in the end, you'll never get everyone behind Cena again. As a face, he appeals to younger fans but the smarks hate him. If he was a heel, then it would be vice versa. And, to be honest, the smarks who don't like him are slowly starting to get, well, smart. The number of blind cena haters is (slowly) decreasing. There's really not much that can be done for him. If he suddenly had the Rock's mic skills and Bret Hart's wrestling skills, people still would hate him. Smarks are petty and can't admit when they might've been wrong about a guy... Unless he turns heel, of course.

 

[jackhammer_27]

I wish there was some other way to say this but, *sigh* it takes two to tango.
Creative gives a wrestler his material, it's the wrestler's job to make it work.

You can blame Cena for his in-ring work. That's (almost) all him. But everyone knows his promos and antics are scripted, they come from the writers. Cena is a professional and is a great worker. He tries to make all the stuff work. But the material is so... Bland that the fans get pissed off at it. It's not 1987, fans won't get behind a mega-face.

But in the end, you'll never get everyone behind Cena again. As a face, he appeals to younger fans but the smarks hate him. If he was a heel, then it would be vice versa. And, to be honest, the smarks who don't like him are slowly starting to get, well, smart. The number of blind cena haters is (slowly) decreasing. There's really not much that can be done for him. If he suddenly had the Rock's mic skills and Bret Hart's wrestling skills, people still would hate him. Smarks are petty and can't admit when they might've been wrong about a guy... Unless he turns heel, of course.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I absolutely agree. he does what he can with what he's given. And in this current WWE landscape, he's done okay in my opinion. I do still think his ring work is underrated though.

 

[school-of-hard-knocks]

What would get more people behind Cena? Nothing. He is a very good if not great worker and there should be no question about it. However WWE crowd is very divided. About 1/2 of the crowd are women, little kids and men who don't necessarily follow wrestling a lot. They are buying Cena because he is the ultimate role model. He works hard, plays by the rules, doesn't do drugs, wrestles clean, tells them what they wanna hear, is ripped with muscles, wins a lot and is not a bad looking guy. He is very easy to get behind if you are not a smark.

About 1/5 of the fans are smarks, internet fans, people who think that they know everything and are above the "show." And I am really trying to not say this in a negative way because a lot of smarks are intelligent wrestling fans. But what makes them into smarks is that they don't watch wrestling for entertainment as much as they do for the sole purpose so they can analyze it with other smarks. They want to have something to talk about. Is wrestler A a good worker? Did wrestler B blow a spot in the match? Did wrestler C get busted open the hard way or did he blade himself? Etc, etc... Most of the smarks used to be anti cena but some have shifted recently. Still, I would say that more smarks dislike Cena than like him. And they will continue to dislike him until he gets their stamp of approval by putting on great matches and developing a more adult oriented character.

The rest of the fans are bandwagon followers. They log onto the internet, check out the wrestling web sites, talk to their smark friends and they follow whatever bandwagon is there. About 4 years ago it became "cool" to boo Cena. So the bandwagon fans started doing so. Just like the smarks do bandwagon fans think that they know everything and they think that they are above the "show." However the difference is that smarks fans actually know what they are talking about. Bandwagon fans repeat what they hear from other people and are very dumb in general. There are still people out there who talk about Cena only having 4 moves, being carried through matches, etc. And these "fans" will continue to boo Cena until they move onto the next wagon.

So to get the 3 groups of people from the above together is going to be very hard if not impossible. Kids will always like their role models. Smarks will continue shitting over everything. And the bandwagon fans are going to continue to follow them.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Fellow WZers,

With TNA's acquisition of Hogan and Bischoff, we now might finally have the opportunity to concretely answer two questions that we heatedly debate about on these forums. Firstly, does viable competition fuel wrestling booms? Given that this question already generates a ton of intelligent discussion, I think we can skip ahead to the second question, that of Cena's drawing power.

If Hogan proves to be as big of an attraction as he has been in the past and if he takes business away from WWE, then this will unequivocally hurt Cena's legacy. Admittedly, even now, Hogan may have been 10 times the star that Cena will ever be. But. I don't see how someone with an AARP card taking fans away from a healthy man in his early 30s does anything but prove how much WWE's virtual monopoly has propped up the notion that the latter is actually a wrestling superstar.

Of course, it may also be the case that Hogan does nothing for TNA, or that Cena's stardom simply proves to be too much for Hogan to overcome. Ultimately, though, we will finally get some closure on whether or not Cena deserves to be considered one of the greats.

 

[Mr. TM]

I almost have to think that in a way, Cena could be compared to Bret Hart. Hard workers who put a company on their backs time and time again (I would say that John Cena has a much larger supporting cast), but if Cena fails to hold, and TNA begins to rise to the 2s, then the 3s, and dare I say 4s in the future (giving some time for Hogan, who does have a decent supporting cast now with Angle, Styles, Wolfe and others), then Cena will have to work extremely hard and might be given too much blame for the fall in the WWE if it were to happen.

 

[bcg60]

If anyone can remember The Rock's run with the WWE in 2003, then I'd say go for that with Cena, the whole "I'm a superstar, I'm better than you" type gimmick would work well for him, in my opinion. It also wouldn't hurt to see some "I'll kick your ass you son of a bitch" character incorporated into the mix either, sort of like SCSA.

 

[CKDaimen]

Fellow WZers,

With TNA's acquisition of Hogan and Bischoff, we now might finally have the opportunity to concretely answer two questions that we heatedly debate about on these forums. Firstly, does viable competition fuel wrestling booms? Given that this question already generates a ton of intelligent discussion, I think we can skip ahead to the second question, that of Cena's drawing power.

If Hogan proves to be as big of an attraction as he has been in the past and if he takes business away from WWE, then this will unequivocally hurt Cena's legacy. Admittedly, even now, Hogan may have been 10 times the star that Cena will ever be. But. I don't see how someone with an AARP card taking fans away from a healthy man in his early 30s does anything but prove how much WWE's virtual monopoly has propped up the notion that the latter is actually a wrestling superstar.

Of course, it may also be the case that Hogan does nothing for TNA, or that Cena's stardom simply proves to be too much for Hogan to overcome. Ultimately, though, we will finally get some closure on whether or not Cena deserves to be considered one of the greats.

First of all, Cena haters will never give him his props, so him continuing to lead the WWE while they outdraw TNA would prove absolutely nothing. They would just blame TNA for dropping the ball and/or say Hogan isn't the same as he once was. It would have nothing to do with Cena in their minds, which, in their defense, would probably be true.

However, if TNA did take business away from WWE, you bet, they would jump at the chance to point out what's wrong with the WWE, and yes, John Cena might be at the top of that list.

So, I think its a situation where Cena's legacy has nothing to gain but something to lose.

 

[CKDaimen]

This is my first thread, so bear with me. I wouldn't call myself a John Cena mark, but he is by no means my least favorite worker. I think he works hard, has great charisma, and is great on the stick. I also think he is somewhat limited by what is expected of him by the company. My question is, what would it take to get more people behind Cena in your opinion? This is assuming we agree that he is a good worker and is capable of putting on a good match when not being held back. I honestly think if he'd just bite the bullet and say "You know what, people don't buy the indestructible Cena stuff, let's just be more real with it in the ring" he'd probably get over more with some older fans. I don't think a heel turn would hurt either. It would just freshen up his character so much. And let's face it, love him or hate him, when he would turn back face(and he eventually would)it would be a huge moment. Thoughts?

He simply has to go heel. Smarks love heels, especially heel turns. They have a really short memory too. The biggest IWC John Cena annoying Smark hater in the world would flip for Cena and rationalize it by saying that it's different because now he's a heel and he's more interesting now and blah blah blah, but really it's the same fucking person and really they are just following the crowd and flip-flopping. Don't get me wrong, a heel turn really can do wonders for a character, but I don't think it can make enough of a difference to take someone who hates John Cena as much as they act like they do, and turn them into a JOhn Cena fan all of a sudden. But if that were to happen, that's exactly what Joe Smark would have you believe. So to answer your question, all he has to do is go heel and smarks will be all over him.

God I hate smarks.

 

[maar130]

Well, The Cena character is not my favorite pretty much because I don't like it at all, simple put is that I have never like him. I mean, credit to hwere credit is due, he is a good wrestler, he may display only 5 moves now and seem to be confortable with it (also that line is getting really old, it has been since 2005) but anyone who have watched him before the WWE or even in WWE when he was only a regular wrestler or even a rapper should know that since he had a nice repertorie of moves.

He is a good embassador for the WWE and his character is cool for most people, for me it comes as alittel bland but that is me. His mick skills are good and he can cut a good promo.

Storyline wise he has come out as someone too perfect since he does not only win the big battle but most of the time the whole war. Faces, as I have learned and can be wrong, are always supposed to win in the end...but in the end, not at the beggining or in the middle or the whole time ( I know he nowadays usually does not win everytime but he used to).

Truth be told, for storyline reasons he should have won at Bragging Rights and his match with Orton was great, but something that give away the result was the stipulation: If Cena loses he leaves Raw-Come on guys, didn't we saw that in 2006? Edge and Cena had the same stipulation, if by any chance you believed Orton was going to win after that, you really have short term memory and not a good bite of common sense. I heard someone writting: "He was supposed to lose and go to Smackdown", well...no, why? he is the freaking superhero and this is not the end of the Attitude era where the Bad guys ussually won all the time only to lose at Mania. Raw needs Cena, so much that The imposible happened and

Now not until he came to Raw and battle Jericho he started receiving crap from everyone because before that when he was US champion and before that a lot of people was saying he was almost the Second comming of The Rock and that is absolutely bs.

The guy is dedicated, a good wrestler but I don´t like his character and as entertaining as he is, as a good company guy he is, just to close to perfection that is boring.

 

[I_Like_All_Wrestling]

I don't mind Cena as a Hulk Hogan-ish type character for todays generations. Someone who is good and lets you know it, and seemingly overcomes all odds. Fine, I'm okay with that.

I think one major problem Cena has is his promos. He's not funny. He ofton comes across as if he were trying give give a Rock like promo...but he just can't do it. It seems forced. When he's trying to be intense that also seems forced. For me, that's the biggest problem. He gets time for 10 minute promos that just turn me off. If he can pull off a great promo consistently then I'd be much more interested in him.

Another problem is WWE booking. It's hard to keep your character interesting and fresh when you have the same matches against the same opponents over and over and over again.

 

[StopFantasyBooking]

Fellow WZers,

With TNA's acquisition of Hogan and Bischoff, we now might finally have the opportunity to concretely answer two questions that we heatedly debate about on these forums. Firstly, does viable competition fuel wrestling booms?

Stopped reading here. TNA is not even in the same ball park as WWE. Remember when Raw and ipmact went head to head? TNA got destroyed.

I watched TNA last night. Same non-sensical storylines, asinine production value, stipulation matches for no reason, the list goes on and on.

WWE is not perfect by any means, but Vince is almost assuredly laughing his ass off about Hogan. Final nail in the TNA coffin.

 

[KnightShadow]

What most surprises me is that people really think that Hogan going to TNA will make any difference. WCW started to die the day that Hogan showed up. It was the beginning of the end. TNA made a great deal in getting EB but Hogan was a mistake. Especially if they start bringing in all his old-fart cronies. I wish TNA the best because we need competition to get WWE going again but I really do not think it will ever happen, especially as TNA will probably still have Russo booking. Eric could do somthing with the talent in TNA but with Hogan and Russo there, I don't see any lasting good coming out of this.

 

[wrestling fan 666]

Okay, this has been coming for some time. I'm a mixed fan of Cena and this is mainly exactly what has been stated before; he stinks as a wrestler, but is an incredible worker (the guy has a heart for the business that overshadows his talent). His mic work needs a LOT of help, he needs a new finisher, he needs to learn some solid wrestling holds (if I see that flying shoulder block one more time...), and have a cross between Orton and Austin's attitude. He needs the cockiness of Orton, yet have that "I'll can kick your ass any time I want" attitude.

Turning heel will help a lot in the attitude. Then eventually turn into the "heel you cheer for cause he's such a bad ass" that will eventually turn him to face again. The FU or Attitude Adjustment ranks up there with Hogan's leg drop...it's a fucking body slam-that's it, a body slam...ooo it's so scary. The STF is overly used. Hell, in one night, HHH, HBK, and Cena all used the hold. Come on. I got some flack on this one when I mentioned it before; but his Superman gimmick has to change as well. If you take a beating, show some damage-don't just bounce back like nothing happened. We know deep down it's scripted, but it doesn't have to show it so much as in Cena matches.

As long as he keeps that "may the best man win" attitude a.l.a. Steamboat, he'll never get over with everyone. The whole boyscout thing is not fitting in today's social atmosphere. What kills me is he has so much potential yet he's just sitting back and basically doing the same old, same old...(so can be said about HHH, HBK, and other WWE talent)

 

[jrocc4dub]

Cena is hated on way too much. He's a decent worker, and has the charisma to cut excellent promos. The way his character is he doesn't have that mean streak that's been mentioned in previous posts. I started to dislike Cena when he turned face. As a heel, the guy was money. His promos were full of emotion and he had a mean streak. As to what it would take to get people to stop bashing the guy, well, nothing probably. He's never gonna make everyone happy. He is in need of a tweaking to the character he has. The superman shit doesn't fly in this day. Maybe in Hogans time people marked out for it. Cena isn't Hogan. The times are different. Shades of gray. There are no shades to Cena's character. Only the good guy is shown. Maybe if Cena went apeshit after getting screwed somehow by Legacy and took out each of them one by one, sorta like Austin would have done. But, then we'd have people bitching here that he was biting Stone Cold. He's really in a no win situation with the iwc. It's a shame to because hes one of the best. Basically, if Cena turned heel for a bit and then brought some of his heel characteristics with him when he turned face again, maybe that would get people to stop the needless bitching about him.

 

[jayteeERA]

I am a Cena fan. I see him wanting to be like the Hogan, Austin, but can't why. Its cause of his face character change after his first wwe title reign. I like the old Cena better (from 03- 04). That Cena had a mean streak, he had a edge, he was funny with his freestyles. I respect that he trying to impress the kids and thats find. People are just use to these bad ass faces like austin, the wanna be austin the rock and hhh. I feel if he kept that it would have more fans cheer and a fewer boos.



The old Cena needs to come back checkout Royal Rumble 04. He had the pop of the night.

 

[school-of-hard-knocks]

Okay, this has been coming for some time. I'm a mixed fan of Cena and this is mainly exactly what has been stated before; he stinks as a wrestler, but is an incredible worker (the guy has a heart for the business that overshadows his talent). His mic work needs a LOT of help, he needs a new finisher, he needs to learn some solid wrestling holds (if I see that flying shoulder block one more time...), and have a cross between Orton and Austin's attitude. He needs the cockiness of Orton, yet have that "I'll can kick your ass any time I want" attitude.

Turning heel will help a lot in the attitude. Then eventually turn into the "heel you cheer for cause he's such a bad ass" that will eventually turn him to face again. The FU or Attitude Adjustment ranks up there with Hogan's leg drop...it's a fucking body slam-that's it, a body slam...ooo it's so scary. The STF is overly used. Hell, in one night, HHH, HBK, and Cena all used the hold. Come on. I got some flack on this one when I mentioned it before; but his Superman gimmick has to change as well. If you take a beating, show some damage-don't just bounce back like nothing happened. We know deep down it's scripted, but it doesn't have to show it so much as in Cena matches.

No offense but I hate this post with a passion. You can like or dislike Cena and you have every right to do so. But saying stupid things like that he needs to learn more holds or get a new finisher is ignorant. Cena can work any kind of a match he wants to. That is a proven fact. And I am pretty sure that he knows and can probably execute a hundred different wrestling holds. However just because he can doesn't mean he should. What will Cena putting someone in a single leg crab or a camel clutch gonna do for his match? Absolutely nothing. This isn't UFC. It isn't amateur wrestling. In the world of pro wrestling less is more. Cena's style is to get beat down, take a couple of trademark bumps then work a comeback and finish his match off with some high impact offense. He is not being booked as a submission specialist or a great technical wrestler so why would he act like one? It makes no sense.

And his finishers are fine as well. They are simple yet effective. And most importantly they are safe. A true testament to the amount of skill Cena has is the fact that he has never injured anyone in a match or gave anyone a bump that could've caused a broken neck or a torn shoulder. What makes Cena sell is what he is right now. So why change it? He can still put on good matches with what he does. Plus every time he does something out of norm it means a lot more than it would if he did it every week.

 

[Sean Valjean]

This is going to take some work to get him universally liked again, especially for the long-time haters. Here's how I'd do it:

First off, turn him heel. I know that idea is generally frowned upon around here, but face it; the hater's will NEVER accept him a face without a change as drastic as a heel turn. Besides, they all want him heel so giving in to them would get their love right off the bat. Have him trash the fans who booed him, say fuck the kids, hate authority, and pretty much be the complete opposite of what he is now. He'll need to stay heel a while, at least a year; long enough for us to forget the stale character he is now. The Cena fans won't like it, but a lot of them are marks so they'll get behind him as soon as he turns face again. But this will surely get the haters behind him, and if we can get stubborn fans like that to cheer him, we're pretty much set.

When the time comes for him to turn again, have it be a sloooooow turn. I mean, from mega heel, to heel, to tweener, and then finally babyface. DO NOT have him be the goody-goody again or else the haters will hate again and all that work will be for nothing.

Instead, have him be what he was before; a cool, badass face. The easiest way would be for him to go back to his rap gimmick since he was liked a lot more back then and he's shown he can make that gimmick work. However it's done, he needs to be a badass face. Have rip on opponents with jokes that aren't written by Sesame Street (GO BACK TO THE FREESTYLES, DAMMIT), stop the salutes, use some heel tactics, and don't make him look like Superman. He can be strong, but he needs to still look vulnerable because it make him more human, and people latch on to that better (Of course, Cena's going need to work on selling wear-n-tear to do that, but that's another story.)

If all goes well, more people will like him. The marks will like him because, well, they're marks and like all faces. The smarks will like him because he went heel and became the badass face he used to be.