The *Official* John Cena Thread

[Brilliant Human Being]

One of the main things that the attitude era also had was the unpredictability about it. You just never knew what was going to happen before and that's one of the main issues I have with the product today. It's too predictable compared to the days of the attitude era.

And thats Cena's fault? If anything its Vinces fault for being lazy and not building new talent. Face it, right now John Cena is the dependable go-to guy of the WWE, know why that is? Because he's the most entertaining and over wrestler in the business. You can go on all you want about his 5 moves of doom or whatever, but those moves are what singles him out from everyone else. Watch any Cena match. Then see how much livelier the crowd gets when he stands over his oppenent for the 5 knuckle shuffle. Thats why he is where he is. So don't blame Cena for Vinces failings to push anyone new.

 

[Paradox]

The John Cena List: Part One​

Me tearing you a new one part 1!

I was challenged by a poster named General Disarray to create my John Cena Hate List, so I am. This is part one of The John Cena List. In this part I will discuss the major reasons why I dislike him. In part two, I will discuss the minor reasons why I dislike him and I will also list the very few reasons I might like him. So, let’s get started!

Get to it! I've been asking for this longer than GD has been... Shame!

*Remember; this is an opinionated post. I am in no way, shape, or form saying that my opinion is fact!*

THANK GOD!!!

Reasons I Dislike John Cena​

Let's hear them...

The John Cena Move set:

Alright... what about it?

If you have ever read any of my posts on my views of John Cena, then you have read me list the, “5 or 6 moves of doom,” as a major reason that I dislike John Cena.

OMG!!!5 movz of doom!!!! We've been over this... He has more moves than 5...

We all know what these moves are, but for those of you who are not familiar with them, I will list them once again, in order. 2 shoulder blocks, modified back body drop (idk if this is the official name for it, but I am calling it this), 5 knuckle shuffle, and the Attitude Adjustment. Also, if he misses the Attitude Adjustment then we usually have some transition wrestling for about a minute or two until he either hits the Attitude Adjustment or he locks in the STF.

Hmm... let's see about that... Let's go back in time, back to the heel days of John Cena... Let's see him use 5 moves...


[youtube]kXrO70AcC4M&feature[/youtube]

[youtube]yPqTQm_bJXw&feature[/youtube]

I see more than five there...

Why don't you go look up some of his match from 07. The ones that you said you liked. Look at his matches from unfogiven 06 to backlash 07. He had great matches, using more than 5 or 6 moves. Especially his matches again Umaga. His matches against Shawn Michaels? How bout those matches, you go watch those and tell me he uses 5 moves. How about his matches with Triple h? Mania? Night of Champions... Does he use five moves to finish a match? yes, a lot of people uses those around 5 moves to end a match. Since when dose those moves become his move set?

I get attacked all of the time that it isn’t a wrestler’s move set that makes the wrestler good. I couldn’t agree with this statement more, however, I believe that it is a combination of all things that makes a wrestler good or even great, IMO.

I agree, I think that a wrestler should have a good move set should make a wrestler good. Also I believe that they need more as you said to be the total package.

Of course, Cena marks will throw Hulk Hogan at me, as he is considered the greatest professional wrestler of all time and to say that he had a limited move set is an understatement.

Yes, Hogan had an extremely limited move set. More so Than Cena.

Hulk Hogan, though, was the greatest hype man/crowd controller of all time. His matches are not remembered for being wrestling clinics, but his matches are remembered for being wrestling spectacles.

Yes, I agree with you there. Hogan new how to put on a match to keep everyone entertain, for a time.

John Cena is nowhere near the level of entertainer that Hulk Hogan was and he probably never will be.

I agree, and disagree. I believe that Cena is a great entertainer, one of the best that has come through the wwe. I also believe that he's slow but surely climbing up the rungs to reach greatness.

Let me to ask you this question. How big was Hogan in the 80s? Huge, right? He could entertain fans right? How long did he have that face gimmick? Over 15 years... I grantee you that if we had the same opportunity now, to look at Hogan then in the light that we look at Cena now. We would bash him just as much, if not more so. Look, Cena has had the same gimmick for 4 years, and people are screaming that he's stale predictable and so on. Imagine having Hogan for 15... Could you imagine how harsh we would be on him? How can you say that Hogan was great, and A amazing entertainer, but Cena isn't anything special? It just doesn't make sense.Allow me to put it this way. It's illogical to judge Cena in the way that you do, and then treat Hogan the way you do, why? Because you're judging on two different scales. We had Hogan when we were growing up and adored the spectacle that was Hulkamania. We have Cena when we're adults that are critical of everything that happens in the wrestling business. Automatically giving us an unfair bias against Cena. 15 years ago we weren't arguing about people being shoved down our throats. We loved it all and took it all in.

Back to Cena however. It really isn’t his moves that I have a major problem with because almost every wrestler has a set of signature moves that they will use at some point in a match,

Yep, that is the case with all wrestlers, I'm glad you realize that.

but it is the way in which he uses those moves. You can call a Cena match like you are the one that booked it. A typical Cena match goes like this: Cena will start off strong with some punches or kicks, he will then get his ass whipped for about 90% of the match, go into his signature moves of death, and win the match with his opponent taking little damage throughout the match.

Hmm. I disagree, not all Cena matches happen that way, look at his match that I listed from 07... He had some great back and forth match with Umaga, Michaels. Or his Feud with Edge, they had great back and forth matches, what about his matches triple h? Same. I find it funny that you get on him for this. Then you say you want him to be dominant, well we had that when he destroyed the miz. You complained then...

Now other wrestlers like Shawn Michaels might end the match almost the same way every time, however, their matches do not go the same way, same pace, or use the same type of heel/face psychology all the time. As far as in ring work goes, Cena is a one trick pony. Sure, I have been satisfied with Cena matches before, but those few Cena matches do not out number the many that I dislike or consider to be bad matches.

Wait, Michaels is more so than Cena, He gets his ass handed to him. Then come back. Shawn is more a one trick pony than Cena.

The John Cena Push:

When John Cena was first drafted to Raw, this really wasn’t a problem because we had Batista and HHH finishing up their feud. So Cena took a back seat to those two for about a month until Batista was drafted to Smack Down. When Batista left Raw, however, the flood gates were opened and Cena hell poured out into the wrestling audience.

How so? He's the champion, he's suppose to get the limelight. That's what happens. If you don't like that, then you could say that jbl was pushed down our throats, Batista was pushed down our throats. Austin and The Rock were pushed down our throat. He was the main man on the main show. He's going to be the spotlight. I would be worried if the Champion didn't get the spotlight.

Cena was made out to be the next greatest thing in professional wrestling since Steve Austin, but it didn’t take like Steve Austin did because Austin was built up over a period of time and we, the fans, ultimately made the decision on Austin. We, the fans, weren’t so lucky with Cena.

I don't remember him being made into the next big thing. Wait, Cena was built up over three years. Longer than Austin, who made his impacted in around 2. The fans did make the choice with Cena if you remember. He was heel with the rapper gimmick. It was right around the video that I posted that he started going face, because the fans were starting to get behind him. They were loving his raps, they were cheering more and more for him. Like we did with Austin. They were both heels who were winning over the crowd.

Cena was ultimately shoved down our throats for a very long period of time.

Where is the hate for Batista then? He went and held the title for almost as long as Cena, before he was injured. This is one thing that I don't understand. Why does Cena receive so much hate for being shoved down our throats, but Batista gets a pass? Was he shoved down our throats? there was a point when I would agree with you, but he dropped the belt for three months. Then held it for a year. Which I personally enjoyed.

IMO he wasn’t proven enough to be the top star in the WWE and I think that is why he was received on Raw, at first, in such a bad light. Cena would be booed out of the building for a very long time and this was the top face in the WWE.

Hold on, I don't remember Cena being booed out of the building till late 06 07... Not earlier than that. In fact...

[youtube]vU7lIAg2uJM[/youtube]

That's a pretty big pop for someone who wasn't welcomed.

Or

[youtube]XIEOi0DpUNg&feature[/youtube]

That's a pretty good pop from what I heard. Are you going to tell me that those were edited in?

Both of those were with in his first couple of months... So I don't see him being booed out of the arena...

Now if that isn’t the fans telling you something, I don’t what is. WWE, however, stayed the course and it seemed like the more we booed, the more Cena was shoved into the spotlight. Before long, he was dominating Raw, while still getting booed.

Telling me what? He wasn't I just proved that. If you still think I don't know what to tell you. It wasn't in that time that Cena was booed, it was later.

Fans were tired of seeing Cena, but the more we hated it, the more we got. WWE ultimately made a good decision with Cena by letting him go on a very lengthy title run. IMO, this won a lot of people over with Cena because he was actually having some pretty good feuds and matches while in this run. His title run did a lot in terms of making the WWE title prestigious again and it gave us a lot of new feuds with the Main Event on Raw, unlike we have now.

Here's the problem. Like I said Cena wasn't booed at that point. He was booed during his year long reign, and then when he came back in 08 and went back into the title scene. I agree that his year long run was good for him. He had gave us very interesting feuds that gave us good matches.

So why Cena really isn’t shoved on us anymore, however, your die hard wrestling fan remembers how easily he came up into the spotlight and it was literally a reaction of, “Who the fuck does he think he is?”

Not really, because not many people said that. Look Cena was out of the title scene for 3 months. 3 months that Cena didn't go near a title. He stayed away doing his own thing. At least he's not to the level of Batista or Triple h. Remember on Smackdown from 07 through the first part of 08. Batista was in every main event match. What about Triple h, how many main event's has he been in? The only people that had a problem with him going back to the near the title was you, and those that hate Cena.

You marks might say that Orton is pushed on us now, but I say that Orton was years in the making. He worked very hard, what with HHH burying him, working with The Undertaker, jobbing to Hulk Hogan, and working with DX to get where he is now. So I consider Orton proven to be a good main event star and it seemed like he was molded into carrying the WWE title. Cena was just pushed to the top too hard and too fast, IMO.

Let's think about this... He was given a reign for 3 weeks, because Brock left. He got that reign so that Brock wouldn't be the youngest wwe champion. I think that he worked very well with 'Taker. Hogan, meh. Dx. meh. To me he hasn't impressed me. Look the guy had one of the most boring 6 month reigns in history, besides his feud with Hardy. The guy is known to be lazy in the ring, and he's has his moments on the mic.

The John Cena Character:

A lot of people remember the Rapper John Cena from Smack Down, but when he got to Raw he became the uber babyface that we enjoy now. There really isn’t that much to say about John Cena’s character. At first, it wasn’t an issue. Lately, however, his character has become a bit boring and predictable.

I've said this before. What about 'Taker, he's had the same gimmick for longer than Cena. Yes he changes it up in the ring from time to time, but for the most part it's been the same. Look at Hogan. Like I said he had the same style of gimmick for 20 years. Yet he gets a pass. HBK, same story. Yet Cena's gimmick gets ripped apart.

He comes across a lot of times as a silly comic relief and then he tries to get serious on us by cutting a very enraged promo here and there. It really kills his character’s credibility to be so silly and then be so serious. Sometimes it is hard to figure out just what John Cena is supposed to be. I am just going to stick with the uber babyface who is predictable and stale with what he is going to do.

How does it kill his character? He's a funny guy that doesn't taker crap. When he gets it he goes off. If your trying to figure out what he's trying to be then you are reading into wrestling to much. Step back and change the way that you view it. I love how you revert to bashing him, when you don't have anything else to say about him.

The John Cena Promo:

This one really isn’t a huge issue to me, but I do find his promos to be a bit stale or bland sometimes. I much rather prefer a serious Cena promo as opposed to a Cena trying to be funny, but ultimately coming across as stupid promo. When HHH and HBK try the funny promo, they catch hell from us, but no one bitches about when John Cena does it.

Yeah, because unlike Hbk, or HHH. Cena can be funny. If you have problem with Cena being comic relief than you have a problem with Jericho, and The Rock. Why do I say that, because a majority of both of their promos were based in comedy. Look at how many Names The Rock had for everyone? Every single promo he ever did he was cracking jokes. Jericho can be labeled the same. Though he has changed his gimmick in the last year. He's was mainly based in comedy. Cena is the same as both of these men. If you're going to bash Cena, I want to hear you bash the Rock, and Jericho for their styles of promos.

His serious promos are much better, however, they are very predictable. If I were Josh Matthews and asked him if his ass itched, he would spend the next 5 minutes yelling to everyone about how everybody got an ass itch from time to time and that you shouldn’t scratch it in public and if he get’s an ass itch at the PPV, it isn’t going to stop him from achieving his ultimate goal and blah blah blah.

Once again I point you to The Rock, how many times did he make fun of Kevin Kelly? Or Michael Cole? Or Jonathan Coachmen, or Lilian? hmm? Each time he was interviewed by them that's the answer. If you are going to hate on Cena, hate on The Rock... Until I see you doing that, then I'm not going to agree with on this.

The John Cena Conclusion:

IMO, John Cena is just all around bland, boring, stale, and predictable. It might be a matter of taste or style, but I just don’t find John Cena appealing at all. He is about as interesting as watching paint dry. He is the top face in the company, however, so there must be something good about him, right? When ever you find out what that is, please tell me.

You have the right to your opinion, but I find it extremely misguided. I don't find anything in it that is Logical at all.

BTW marks don’t come back with it’s a business and he makes the most money and he should be the top because of that. He isn’t making anyone in this forum money, is he? Then why should his ability to draw affect us in the least?

Cuz that's exactly what I was going to do. No His ability to draw speaks for it self. He's the biggest Draw that wwe has. If he wasn't, then why is he the face of the company?

 

[YoYoYumba]

I've said this before. What about 'Taker, he's had the same gimmick for longer than Cena. Yes he changes it up in the ring from time to time, but for the most part it's been the same. Look at Hogan. Like I said he had the same style of gimmick for 20 years. Yet he gets a pass. HBK, same story. Yet Cena's gimmick gets ripped apart.

I'm going to comment on Hogan because I didn't see much of him but I feel it's unfair to just say the undertaker's character has just been the same. What do you expect when your name is the undertaker? He did have a successful run at being the "american bad ass" as well, which I'm sure alot of people including myself did enjoy. As for Cena I've already been involved in this arugment over his character with someone else lol. Cena is just too much of a good guy for my liking and I just can't stand how he comes out and tells everyone how passtionate he is and how he respects everyone. That sorta cheesy shit shouldn't be in the WWE and it's the sorta talk that would be fine if it was made by an athlete in a legit sport or in a children's learning program. I enjoyed the Cena heel gimmick because he actually had some attitude back then. After he turned face he completed abandoned all the great qualities in his character. For example coming out and giving his opponents shit and the funny raps he would do. I know his a face and his not going to come out and diss the crowd but why can't he still rip on his opponents a bit with his raps and that sorta thing.

Just off topic for a minute, I want to say I love that velvet sky poster you got on the bottom of your thread. That's gotta be the best I've seen in here.

 

[SSJPhenom]

BBP, I'm not going to quote your post, I am just going to simply respond.

I'm not bashing The Rock, Jericho, 'Taker, or anyone else in my post because this isn't a thread about them. If you want me to rant on those guys, go and create a thread about them and I will.

You are right in what you said about Hogan. We were kids then, so we wouldn't bitch because we just enjoyed the product, but the product was way better back then and through the Attitude Era. The matches weren't better but the over all product was. So we do give Cena alot of crap that should appeal to other guys, but they aren't here now and he is, so he is going to get that crap. When the kiddies that watch now grow up, they will talk about how great Cena was and how horrible their top star is now. It is the endless cycle that is Professional Wrestling.

Seriously though, I love how when you have nothing intelligent or logical to say yourself you always pass it on to, "Why don't you criticize this guy or that guy." Come up with something better, please.

 

[X]

I truly do not understand why you guy's all gang up on Undertakers#1Fan...so he doesn't like John Cena...so what? You guys make it sound like Cena is the fucking second coming of Hulk Hogan or something, he's simply not. He's the biggest star in pro wrestling during one of the worst slumps in the last 20 years. Let's not appoint him Top 5 Ever status just like that, what do you say?

Cena...he's had to grow on me, in thanks large part due to Slyfox. I've grown to love some of his matches (the TLC match, RVD vs. Cena), but I still am absolutely bored to tears by the majority of his matches. Take for example the "epic" Cena-HBK match on Raw a few years back...I remember watching that live, and thinking "...Is this supposed to be amazing or something? Because it's not". That match was mediocre in my opinion, apparently to the kids all it takes to be a great match is to just be long.

The fact is that Cena in the title picture right now against Orton has grown stale. Incredibly stale. It happens to every wrestler after years of dominating the main event scene, eventually you NEED to change things, because they've grown far too stale. The WWE saw this with both Austin and The Rock, and eventually turned the both of them heel. If two of the biggest stars in pro wrestling history (and much larger stars than Cena) can turn heel, I don't see why Cena can't. But the WWE doesn't really give a shit about building feuds and storylines on Raw presently, no, they're satisfied with just sending out DX for the nine millionth un-funny time, Hornswoggle matches, and Cena doing the same routine every week. If it sells tickets, let's just do it for the next 5 years! That's apparently their train of thought.

Cena needs a serious change. ASAP. He's grown very, very stale.

 

[YoYoYumba]

I truly do not understand why you guy's all gang up on Undertakers#1Fan...so he doesn't like John Cena...so what? You guys make it sound like Cena is the fucking second coming of Hulk Hogan or something, he's simply not. He's the biggest star in pro wrestling during one of the worst slumps in the last 20 years. Let's not appoint him Top 5 Ever status just like that, what do you say?

Cena...he's had to grow on me, in thanks large part due to Slyfox. I've grown to love some of his matches (the TLC match, RVD vs. Cena), but I still am absolutely bored to tears by the majority of his matches. Take for example the "epic" Cena-HBK match on Raw a few years back...I remember watching that live, and thinking "...Is this supposed to be amazing or something? Because it's not". That match was mediocre in my opinion, apparently to the kids all it takes to be a great match is to just be long.

The fact is that Cena in the title picture right now against Orton has grown stale. Incredibly stale. It happens to every wrestler after years of dominating the main event scene, eventually you NEED to change things, because they've grown far too stale. The WWE saw this with both Austin and The Rock, and eventually turned the both of them heel. If two of the biggest stars in pro wrestling history (and much larger stars than Cena) can turn heel, I don't see why Cena can't. But the WWE doesn't really give a shit about building feuds and storylines on Raw presently, no, they're satisfied with just sending out DX for the nine millionth un-funny time, Hornswoggle matches, and Cena doing the same routine every week. If it sells tickets, let's just do it for the next 5 years! That's apparently their train of thought.

Cena needs a serious change. ASAP. He's grown very, very stale.

Nicely said xfearbefore. Your absolutely right, the WWE doesn't give a shit about building feuds and storylines...all Vince cares about is making money no matter how shit the product is. It's just sad.

 

[The Todd]

Take for example the "epic" Cena-HBK match on Raw a few years back...I remember watching that live, and thinking "...Is this supposed to be amazing or something? Because it's not". That match was mediocre in my opinion, apparently to the kids all it takes to be a great match is to just be long.

There is no way people are always going to agree a certain match is great. That particular match was entertaining to some people because it told a decent story, two top faces having a rematch from WrestleMania unable to finish the other one off, that the fans got right into. The main purpose of a match is to get the crowd involved and, forgive me if I'm wrong, but the crowd were well into that particular match. It wasn't just the fact it went long.

The fact is that Cena in the title picture right now against Orton has grown stale. Incredibly stale.

This i disagree with. If he was stale the arena would be quiet when he made his entrance/during his matches, instead of the loudest during the night. Yes it is never all positive reaction, but it seems like everyone is making some kind of noise. It doesn't matter if they like him or not, if they are going to the effort to make a sound they are invested into the character one way or other.

For stale look at the Big Show before he joined up with Jericho. The crowd were dead whenever he was performing which told WWE that he needed changing. For Cena to change the crowds would have to stop caring about him.

As for the point him vs Orton is stale, it hasn't been done properly for two years and then it never got finished properly due to Cena's injury. Also, Orton was no where near as big as he is now. That feud was to make Orton a legit main eventer, finally, this one is the top face vs the top heel which took place at the biggest event of the summer, like it should. The problem comes if they extend it another month or two.

It happens to every wrestler after years of dominating the main event scene, eventually you NEED to change things, because they've grown far too stale. The WWE saw this with both Austin and The Rock, and eventually turned the both of them heel. If two of the biggest stars in pro wrestling history (and much larger stars than Cena) can turn heel, I don't see why Cena can't.

Agreed,eventually a heel turn could well be in order but not now. If he does, where does he go? A feud with HHH? HBK? Batista? The same feuds people don't want him to go into now. The only new feud would be with MVP. Is it worth doing for that one feud?

 

[X]

There is no way people are always going to agree a certain match is great. That particular match was entertaining to some people because it told a decent story, two top faces having a rematch from WrestleMania unable to finish the other one off, that the fans got right into. The main purpose of a match is to get the crowd involved and, forgive me if I'm wrong, but the crowd were well into that particular match. It wasn't just the fact it went long.

See, this is what pisses me off. Where is everyone getting the idea that the sole purpose of a wrestling match is just to get a reaction from the crowd and involved? The crowd was pretty fuckin' involved in the Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar match from Wrestlemania 20, does that mean that was a good match up? After all, it got the crowd involved like few other matches on that card did, even the epic main event.

There IS such a thing as a shitty match being loved by the crowd, I'm not sure where you guys are getting the idea that this is impossible.

All of this stems from this new elitist attitude I see on this forum in which drawing power is God, and anything related to the indies is a sad pathetic joke (Thanks Sly ). What the fuck is wrong with someone enjoying in-ring product over angles and feuds? Seriously, I hate how elitist some of the people in this thread come off as. So what if YoYoYumba and Undertakers#1Fan don't like John Cena and think he's shit, is it really that big of a deal? As you said yourself, not everyone is going to like the same things. Which kind of pisses me off that everyone has taken to ganging up on these two new posters simply for having a differing opinion, and treating them as though they were cretins for not loving Cena. I'm not saying you in particular Todd, I don't believe I've seen any of that from you ever on this forum, I'm just speaking in general.

This i disagree with. If he was stale the arena would be quiet when he made his entrance/during his matches, instead of the loudest during the night.

Not necessarily true. Hornswoggle is getting pops every week, do you think the Chavo-Hornswoggle program has grown stale? I sure do.

Besides, both Austin & Rock were still getting absolutely massive pops when they began to grow stale and had to be turned heel. After a few years on top, every wrestler needs to make a change. If god damn Hulk Hogan finally grew stale and had to turn heel, Cena certainly can as well. It's not like Hogan stopped getting pops as a face, his character just grew stale. After years of popularity, the fans will cheer you no matter what.

I'm just sick and tired of the same shit from Cena every single week. I'm not saying he needs to be made a heel right now or start wrestling Iron Man technical masterpieces, I just want him or creative to do something to tweak his character a bit. He's grown so bland it's become sad.

 

[Paradox]

I truly do not understand why you guy's all gang up on Undertakers#1Fan...so he doesn't like John Cena...so what? You guys make it sound like Cena is the fucking second coming of Hulk Hogan or something, he's simply not. He's the biggest star in pro wrestling during one of the worst slumps in the last 20 years. Let's not appoint him Top 5 Ever status just like that, what do you say?

But X, I like arguing for this sake of arguing!
I'm not saying that he's the second coming of Hogan, because he's not. No one will ever reach the level of Hogan again. Least not in my mind. I've been pointing out that he has the same qualities as Hogan. Look, you'll agree that Hogan wasn't the most technical wrestler of all time. Though he could cut a promo and draw more than anyone in history. Cena isn't the most technical wrestler, but I would go so far to say that he's better than Hogan with his move set. Would you agree or disagree? Like you said he's the best that they have now. I think that we have a right to see what level he's on compared to Hogan. I don't consider Him in my top 5 of all time. I don't event think he reaches the top ten. Though that's another topic. I also don't think that it's the biggest slump in the last 20 years. I believe that period was around 92 to early 96....

Cena...he's had to grow on me, in thanks large part due to Slyfox. I've grown to love some of his matches (the TLC match, RVD vs. Cena), but I still am absolutely bored to tears by the majority of his matches. Take for example the "epic" Cena-HBK match on Raw a few years back...I remember watching that live, and thinking "...Is this supposed to be amazing or something? Because it's not". That match was mediocre in my opinion, apparently to the kids all it takes to be a great match is to just be long.

I don't think that because the match was long it was a great match. I loved the match because of how well the match was portrayed. At mania you had the veteran taking the young to limit. Playing mind guys with him. This time around you had the young guy playing the mind games. I really enjoyed that aspect of it. How Cena was using the same tactics that HBK used against him. Though that is not my favorite of his, its one of them.

The fact is that Cena in the title picture right now against Orton has grown stale. Incredibly stale. It happens to every wrestler after years of dominating the main event scene, eventually you NEED to change things, because they've grown far too stale.

Wait, Orton Cena hasn't been happened in over a year. I disagree, would you rather have Orton vs Triple h? That feud that happens once every year? Yes I agree that a wrestler can become stale after so many years in the title scene. I return you to Hogan. How was Hogan not stale after dominating for so long, and now is looked at one of the greatest of all time? I like the point that Todd made though. Cena is still getting a reaction from the crowd unlike the big show did when he came out and the crowd was dead.

The WWE saw this with both Austin and The Rock, and eventually turned the both of them heel. If two of the biggest stars in pro wrestling history (and much larger stars than Cena) can turn heel, I don't see why Cena can't.

Austin I will give you. With his heel turn at Mania 17. Rock however was heel when he entered the main event, then turned heel when he was on his way out. The time that the Rock was huge was when he was face. I don't remember the Rock being changed heel due to the fact that he was stale. I remember that he came back from shooting a movie and went "Hollywood." Though you will probably correct me. I don't care go for it! I seek reproof ....

But the WWE doesn't really give a shit about building feuds and storylines on Raw presently, no, they're satisfied with just sending out DX for the nine millionth un-funny time, Hornswoggle matches, and Cena doing the same routine every week. If it sells tickets, let's just do it for the next 5 years! That's apparently their train of thought.

X, I agree with you and disagree with you. I feel that Cena is in need of a change. He has been the same way for years. It is time for him to switch it up. Problem is I don't see Vince doing it, because of the money he bring in. Now, you may say that Hogan brought in more money after his heel turn. That was a huge risk that WCW took at the point. Remember it was at that point that they weren't beating wwf. If I remember correctly. So they tried it. I don't see Vince taking that type of risk. Why? Would he, Cena brings in the most money of anyone in the company. It's save for him not to, and there is no one that is a threat to him. So he doesn't have to take a risk on turning Cena heel. Though I would be happy with him becoming a more aggressive face.

 

[X]

But X, I like arguing for this sake of arguing!
I'm not saying that he's the second coming of Hogan, because he's not. No one will ever reach the level of Hogan again. Least not in my mind. I've been pointing out that he has the same qualities as Hogan. Look, you'll agree that Hogan wasn't the most technical wrestler of all time. Though he could cut a promo and draw more than anyone in history. Cena isn't the most technical wrestler, but I would go so far to say that he's better than Hogan with his move set. Would you agree or disagree? Like you said he's the best that they have now. I think that we have a right to see what level he's on compared to Hogan. I don't consider Him in my top 5 of all time. I don't event think he reaches the top ten. Though that's another topic. I also don't think that it's the biggest slump in the last 20 years. I believe that period was around 92 to early 96....

Yes, 92-96 was worse, that's why I said this is one of the worst slumps of the last 20 years. Not THE worst slump. I really don't think it's fair to compare Cena to Hogan though. Cena is talented for sure and has buckets of charisma, but Hogan is the golden standard of charisma in this business. The only person that can be compared to him are Austin & The Rock in my opinion. It takes an insane amount of popularity to even compare yourself to Hogan, and Cena has not reached that threshold yet, not in my mind.

I don't think that because the match was long it was a great match. I loved the match because of how well the match was portrayed. At mania you had the veteran taking the young to limit. Playing mind guys with him. This time around you had the young guy playing the mind games. I really enjoyed that aspect of it. How Cena was using the same tactics that HBK used against him. Though that is not my favorite of his, its one of them.

Honestly I just wasn't impressed by the story told in that match at all. I wasn't a big fan of their Wrestlemania match either. I never bought into that storyline in any way, it all just felt so set-up to me, what's the point of this feud in which you clearly know who the victor is going to be? Add to that I didn't find their styles to be very complimentary of each other. HBK works best with someone who has a similar style to his own, like Jericho.

Wait, Orton Cena hasn't been happened in over a year. I disagree, would you rather have Orton vs Triple h? That feud that happens once every year? Yes I agree that a wrestler can become stale after so many years in the title scene. I return you to Hogan. How was Hogan not stale after dominating for so long, and now is looked at one of the greatest of all time? I like the point that Todd made though. Cena is still getting a reaction from the crowd unlike the big show did when he came out and the crowd was dead.

See my response to Todd about the topic of being stale and still getting pops.

Austin I will give you. With his heel turn at Mania 17. Rock however was heel when he entered the main event, then turned heel when he was on his way out. The time that the Rock was huge was when he was face. I don't remember the Rock being changed heel due to the fact that he was stale. I remember that he came back from shooting a movie and went "Hollywood." Though you will probably correct me. I don't care go for it! I seek reproof ....

Of course a face Rock had grown stale, that's why they brought him back as a heel. They recognized they already had plenty of top faces at that time, and that a guy as talented as Rock would be better served as a heel, which he was. The Rock was still getting pops even as a heel though; he certainly wasn't turned heel simply because he stopped getting face pops or something, which was my original point. You can be stale and still get pops.

X, I agree with you and disagree with you. I feel that Cena is in need of a change. He has been the same way for years. It is time for him to switch it up. Problem is I don't see Vince doing it, because of the money he bring in. Now, you may say that Hogan brought in more money after his heel turn. That was a huge risk that WCW took at the point. Remember it was at that point that they weren't beating wwf. If I remember correctly. So they tried it. I don't see Vince taking that type of risk. Why? Would he, Cena brings in the most money of anyone in the company. It's save for him not to, and there is no one that is a threat to him. So he doesn't have to take a risk on turning Cena heel. Though I would be happy with him becoming a more aggressive face.

See, I might agree with you on that Bubba, if Cena really was bringing in big money for the WWE. Which he isn't. Have you taken a look at WWE corporate recently? Last year they posted a net loss of nearly $50 million dollars. They aren't making money right now, they're losing it. If that isn't an obvious sign that things need to be shaken up, than I don't know what is.

 

[Paradox]

See, I might agree with you on that Bubba, if Cena really was bringing in big money for the WWE. Which he isn't. Have you taken a look at WWE corporate recently? Last year they posted a net loss of nearly $50 million dollars. They aren't making money right now, they're losing it. If that isn't an obvious sign that things need to be shaken up, than I don't know what is.

OKay, you got me on that, no I had not seen that, I guess that it's Vince being Vince and not wanting to change his golden boy...

 

[The Todd]

See, this is what pisses me off. Where is everyone getting the idea that the sole purpose of a wrestling match is just to get a reaction from the crowd and involved?

I can't speak for "everyone" so I am by no means speaking for them, but this is a view I hold, not just for wrestling, but in the sports I watch too. I know you despise "soccer" but that's my example anyway, a decent game is made much more enjoyable if their is a good atmosphere, and it's the same with me for wrestling. Again, though, I am only one person, I respect others see differently.

The crowd was pretty fuckin' involved in the Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar match from Wrestlemania 20, does that mean that was a good match up? After all, it got the crowd involved like few other matches on that card did, even the epic main event.

Fair point, but there is a huge difference between a crowd getting involved because of what is happening in the ring and getting involved because of what happened outside the ring/kayfabe.

What the fuck is wrong with someone enjoying in-ring product over angles and feuds?

Nothing at all. Everyone an have their own view, and the fact everyones differs so much makes this forum more enjoyable. Personally, I find people who are brilliant in ring but lack the charisma to carry an interesting angle, such as Shelton Benjamin, to be dull. I know that is not the case with everyone though.

Not necessarily true. Hornswoggle is getting pops every week, do you think the Chavo-Hornswoggle program has grown stale? I sure do.

Which tells me he is entertaining to some people. The fact is a wrestling fan has different tastes to the next one and don't always enjoy the same thing. It is impossible to please every fan with every angle. There will be things that you like and others that you don't. As I believe you were the one who suggested it, until people start tuning off the WWE don't see a problem.

I'm just sick and tired of the same shit from Cena every single week. I'm not saying he needs to be made a heel right now or start wrestling Iron Man technical masterpieces, I just want him or creative to do something to tweak his character a bit. He's grown so bland it's become sad.

There is no such thing as a perfect character, every one could do with some tweaking. The current Cena character is working, for me anyway. The WWE seem to be trying to wipe away the affects of the attitude era and going back to a straight up good vs bad guy storylines, and Cena is the best good guy character the WWE have got.

 

[Coco]

I still am absolutely bored to tears by the majority of his matches. Take for example the "epic" Cena-HBK match on Raw a few years back...I remember watching that live, and thinking "...Is this supposed to be amazing or something? Because it's not". That match was mediocre in my opinion, apparently to the kids all it takes to be a great match is to just be long.

False. I'll take a massive dump on Bret vs. Michaels from WM12 any day of the week. Fact is, Cena vs. Michaels was just a really good match. It built as it progressed, with Cena getting the early advantage he failed to get at WM23 (having learned from a previous lengthy bout against HBK) and growing majorly confident as a result. However, as the match goes on and Cena finds himself unable to beat Michaels, he grows extremely frustrated (It's subtle at first but grows into full blown beating Michaels down at the announce table and yelling at the ref by the end of the final break). It's a story of Cena becoming uncharacteristically frustrated on a night where HBK will take a lengthy shit-kicking and refuse to stay down. Possibly the all time John Cena classic, and not because it's long.

The fact is that Cena in the title picture right now against Orton has grown stale. Incredibly stale. It happens to every wrestler after years of dominating the main event scene, eventually you NEED to change things, because they've grown far too stale.

Agreed, but this has more to do with lazy booking than Cena being stale. If there was some inspiring booking, Cena as a face or a tweener still has legs. But with the boring booking Raw has had for some time now, it's no wonder everything on the show looks stale.

The WWE saw this with both Austin and The Rock, and eventually turned the both of them heel. If two of the biggest stars in pro wrestling history (and much larger stars than Cena) can turn heel, I don't see why Cena can't.

I agree with the idea that Cena can go heel and I would love to see it, but what fresh face is ready to step up and take his place? Austin's heel turn wasn't needed and was simply "stunt booking" IMO, and it flopped eventually as a result of there being no face on Austin's level to take his place. I think Cena's reactions could breed a VERY successful run as the top heel in wrestling, but who does he face? Batista is injured all the time, DX is stale and won't be around forever... That's all you have. Nobody else is ready.

If they built some guys up, I'd be with you. But right now, Cena finally turning his back on those unappreciative fans is something that will have to wait.

Rock... well I think his heel turn was a result of booking him against guys that practically begged for mixed reactions as well as the perception that he was a "sell-out." Entirely different case than Cena.

There is no such thing as a perfect character, every one could do with some tweaking. The current Cena character is working, for me anyway.

That's a bullshit argument. Perfect is one extreme, but Cena yelling senselessly and getting intense for no reason is not a good character trait if he can't deliver it well and is another extreme. When he's on the mic, sometimes someone needs to give Cena a pat on the back and tell him everything's going to be alright.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Thank you Xfearbefore, you are awesome.

I completely agree with everything that you said. Cena is about as stale as jail bread and I am so sick of people comparing him to 'Taker saying, "If Cena's character is stale, then 'Taker has to be stale." Undertaker does a lot to keep himself fresh. Whether it be new tights, fire in his entrance, adding new finisher moves, or taking time off. He is always relevant with the fans and he is always well recieved. His original gimmick is miles away from what he is now.

Cena has been the exact same for 4 years and it is boring. From yelling at the top of his lungs for no reason to trying to be funny but comes across as stupid just like HBK and HHH. He is just bland and boring.

I'm sorry for you people that think he is great, but he is not the be all end all in professional wrestling.

BTW, why does everyone on here have such a major problem with me liking in ring work over interviews and storylines?

 

[KANE-A-KNIGHT]

where have xfear and undertaker#1fan been all my life (well all cenas cearer) but seriously cena is terrible his top 5 things that make him bad
5.His entrance - the music hits and the cringing begins.
4.In Ring Skills - not just his 5 moves but he doesnt sell injuries
3.Him winning - seeing cena beat edge ortan and hbk is heartbreaking
2.promos - i couldnt tell you about his promos because i turn over straight away
1. the worst thing about cena - 5 knuckle shuffle/fu really two of the worst moves ive ever seen. the firemans carry isnt a bad move but as a credible finisher and the way he does those jumping jacks to set them up like hbk tunes up the band aaarrrgh and im not even starting on the 5 ks

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

where have xfear and undertaker#1fan been all my life (well all cenas cearer) but seriously cena is terrible his top 5 things that make him bad
5.His entrance - the music hits and the cringing begins.
4.In Ring Skills - not just his 5 moves but he doesnt sell injuries
3.Him winning - seeing cena beat edge ortan and hbk is heartbreaking
2.promos - i couldnt tell you about his promos because i turn over straight away
1. the worst thing about cena - 5 knuckle shuffle/fu really two of the worst moves ive ever seen. the firemans carry isnt a bad move but as a credible finisher and the way he does those jumping jacks to set them up like hbk tunes up the band aaarrrgh and im not even starting on the 5 ks

I'm going to start at Number 5 and work my way down.

5. Whose entrance would you rather prefer? Orton and HHH's entrances take too long but I can understand the reason for Orton's. Cena's entrance is only like a minute long so it is not hurting anybody.

4. WM 23 may have been the only instance where he didn't sell injuries. Show me proof to the contrary.

3. Why is it heartbreaking that the top guy in the company wins over Orton and HBK? Cena is the top face while Orton is the top heel so Randy isn't going to win over Cena every time because that will be stupid. And HBK is to the point where he should be putting over people anyway and who hasn't beat HBK? I guess you can tell me that Orton or Edge deserve to beat HBK more than Cena.

2. So why do you hate Cena for his promos when you never listen to them? Behind Punk and Jericho, he is the best promo guy right now. He has passion behind it and he makes you want to listen to him.

1. The topic about Cena's finisher hasn't come up much so I will say this. The Rock had a elbow to the chest as his finisher. Mick Foley had a mandible claw as his finisher. Hulk Hogan had a leg drop as his finisher. I would suffice to say that they were pretty successful so why are we harping on Cena because of his. It's effective and he wins matches so I don't care what his finisher is and it shouldn't matter. Where are these jumping jacks that you speak of. I've never seen him do that.

 

[Spaceman Spif]

where have xfear and undertaker#1fan been all my life (well all cenas cearer) but seriously cena is terrible his top 5 things that make him bad

What were you trying to say here?

5.His entrance - the music hits and the cringing begins.

His entrance is a hell of a lot better than half of the guys out there, but this matter is simply prefrence. Just as you don't like Cena's, I don't like HHH's. It's kind of a moot point to offer in regards to why someone sucks. Nice try though, but throw this arguement out the window.

4.In Ring Skills - not just his 5 moves but he doesnt sell injuries

And Triple H, HBK, Taker, etc don't stick to a certain move set? Every wrestler uses only a few key moves in what is considered a normal match. However when need be, Cena can wrestle and has proven it time and time again. Just because he doesn't normally bring out his entire move set in one Raw match, doesn't mean he can't do it. And he does sell, very well, he spends most of his matches making his opponents look good, making it seem like they are beating his ass, granted his does do the Hulk comeback, but it worked for Hulk and is working for Cena. He does sell, hell he sells more than HHH and even Taker.

3.Him winning - seeing cena beat edge ortan and hbk is heartbreaking

Why? How is Cena beating those guys different than HHH beating everyone and their mothers two or three hundred times over? It's not different. Cena doesn't pick who he beats, Vince/creative does. Cena is the biggest face to come along in a long time. He is Vince's man and he will win a lot. However when it's time to do business, he'll do it. Yeah he wins alot, no more than HHH, HBK or Taker.

2.promos - i couldnt tell you about his promos because i turn over straight away

Cena is one of the best on the mic period. He is passionate, believable and can get the fans to pop like mad. He can work a crowd very well and delivers some of the best promos in wrestling today. He is damn good on the mic.

1. the worst thing about cena - 5 knuckle shuffle/fu really two of the worst moves ive ever seen. the firemans carry isnt a bad move but as a credible finisher and the way he does those jumping jacks to set them up like hbk tunes up the band aaarrrgh and im not even starting on the 5 ks

Do you like MVP's elbow drop? Kofi's double leg drop? The People's elbow? Come on, it's not as bad as some signature moves out there. Yeah it's flashy with the hand wave and shoulder dusting, but still a punch to the head is gonna sting, but it's not like he wins matches with it either. As far as the FU, it's a damn devastating move, nothing wrong with it at all. Everyone has things they do to set up moves, if someone other than Cena did it, you would probably like it, but for some reason you are such a Cena hating smark that no matter what anyone says your views will not be changed. We can point out obvious FACTS to prove your theories wrong, but you wouldn't accept them.

 

[SSJPhenom]

5. Whose entrance would you rather prefer? Orton and HHH's entrances take too long but I can understand the reason for Orton's. Cena's entrance is only like a minute long so it is not hurting anybody.

I have to agree with this one. His entrance really is too short for it to matter, IMO. However, I don't think that just by saying HHH or Orton's is long is a valid arguement for what a bad entrance is. 'Taker's is the longest in the WWE and it is also the best to watch. So what is your point about how long their entrances are?

4. WM 23 may have been the only instance where he didn't sell injuries. Show me proof to the contrary.

I actually think that Cena sells his injuries very well, sometimes too much. That is a problem that I have with him because, as I have said before, he spends the majority of the match getting his ass whipped and then does the Hulk come back and wins off of 6 moves. He could afford to do alot more offense in a match.

3. Why is it heartbreaking that the top guy in the company wins over Orton and HBK? Cena is the top face while Orton is the top heel so Randy isn't going to win over Cena every time because that will be stupid. And HBK is to the point where he should be putting over people anyway and who hasn't beat HBK? I guess you can tell me that Orton or Edge deserve to beat HBK more than Cena.

It really isn't heartbreaking for Cena to win, it is heartbreaking to see him win the same way every damn match. It is heartbreaking to see him wrestle Orton for Umphteenth time. I agree that HBK should start putting over new talent however.

2. So why do you hate Cena for his promos when you never listen to them? Behind Punk and Jericho, he is the best promo guy right now. He has passion behind it and he makes you want to listen to him.

I listen to them and I think that there are several that are ahead of him, not just Punk and Jericho. If HBK and HHH get a bad rap for trying to be funny then so should Cena, because he uses the same techniques that those two do and if you can't find DX funny then I don't think that you can find Cena funny. So his funny routine is ridiculous. His serious promos are ok, if he wouldn't yell at the top of his lungs about, "deal with it," or yell about, "I've been booed, cheered, beat up, busted open, blah blah blah," trying desperately to sound like Ali cutting a press interview.

1. The topic about Cena's finisher hasn't come up much so I will say this. The Rock had a elbow to the chest as his finisher. Mick Foley had a mandible claw as his finisher. Hulk Hogan had a leg drop as his finisher. I would suffice to say that they were pretty successful so why are we harping on Cena because of his. It's effective and he wins matches so I don't care what his finisher is and it shouldn't matter. Where are these jumping jacks that you speak of. I've never seen him do that.

IDK about jumping jacks, I've never seen them.

You brought up some finishers here that are absolutely horrible and unbelievable so if I don't like them then I shouldn't like Cena's, right? Well I don't like Cena's. I think that a finisher should look like it can legitamately knock someone out for a 3 count and I am sorry, but a modified fireman's carry suplex, which is what the AA is, isn't going to get the job done.

When compared to The Pedigree, Sweet Chin Music, Tombstone, Trouble in Paridise, etc., the AA looks horrible as far as believability goes. The only thing that it has that a finisher should is that it is flashy.

 

[SSJPhenom]

5. Whose entrance would you rather prefer? Orton and HHH's entrances take too long but I can understand the reason for Orton's. Cena's entrance is only like a minute long so it is not hurting anybody.

I have to agree with this one. His entrance really is too short for it to matter, IMO. However, I don't think that just by saying HHH or Orton's is long is a valid arguement for what a bad entrance is. 'Taker's is the longest in the WWE and it is also the best to watch. So what is your point about how long their entrances are?

4. WM 23 may have been the only instance where he didn't sell injuries. Show me proof to the contrary.

I actually think that Cena sells his injuries very well, sometimes too much. That is a problem that I have with him because, as I have said before, he spends the majority of the match getting his ass whipped and then does the Hulk come back and wins off of 6 moves. He could afford to do alot more offense in a match.

3. Why is it heartbreaking that the top guy in the company wins over Orton and HBK? Cena is the top face while Orton is the top heel so Randy isn't going to win over Cena every time because that will be stupid. And HBK is to the point where he should be putting over people anyway and who hasn't beat HBK? I guess you can tell me that Orton or Edge deserve to beat HBK more than Cena.

It really isn't heartbreaking for Cena to win, it is heartbreaking to see him win the same way every damn match. It is heartbreaking to see him wrestle Orton for Umphteenth time. I agree that HBK should start putting over new talent however.

2. So why do you hate Cena for his promos when you never listen to them? Behind Punk and Jericho, he is the best promo guy right now. He has passion behind it and he makes you want to listen to him.

I listen to them and I think that there are several that are ahead of him, not just Punk and Jericho. If HBK and HHH get a bad rap for trying to be funny then so should Cena, because he uses the same techniques that those two do and if you can't find DX funny then I don't think that you can find Cena funny. So his funny routine is ridiculous. His serious promos are ok, if he wouldn't yell at the top of his lungs about, "deal with it," or yell about, "I've been booed, cheered, beat up, busted open, blah blah blah," trying desperately to sound like Ali cutting a press interview.

1. The topic about Cena's finisher hasn't come up much so I will say this. The Rock had a elbow to the chest as his finisher. Mick Foley had a mandible claw as his finisher. Hulk Hogan had a leg drop as his finisher. I would suffice to say that they were pretty successful so why are we harping on Cena because of his. It's effective and he wins matches so I don't care what his finisher is and it shouldn't matter. Where are these jumping jacks that you speak of. I've never seen him do that.

IDK about jumping jacks, I've never seen them.

You brought up some finishers here that are absolutely horrible and unbelievable so if I don't like them then I shouldn't like Cena's, right? Well I don't like Cena's. I think that a finisher should look like it can legitamately knock someone out for a 3 count and I am sorry, but a modified fireman's carry suplex, which is what the AA is, isn't going to get the job done.

When compared to The Pedigree, Sweet Chin Music, Tombstone, Trouble in Paridise, etc., the AA looks horrible as far as believability goes. The only thing that it has that a finisher should is that it is flashy.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Wow! The Cena thread has been dry for awhile so let me contribute to it.

His match with Randy Orton last night was complete and utter cannon fodder! It was your typical Cena match, which was expected. He got his ass whipped for about 95% of the entire match and then won off of one move! That was bullshit. That was the first time the ref asked Orton if he wanted to quit to. It was a horrible match, especially when compared to I Quit matches of the past. I don't see what everyone sees in Cena. If he is as good as you all think that he is, then why has his last few PPV matches been so horrible?

 

[The Todd]

Wow! The Cena thread has been dry for awhile so let me contribute to it.

His match with Randy Orton last night was complete and utter cannon fodder! It was your typical Cena match, which was expected. He got his ass whipped for about 95% of the entire match and then won off of one move! That was bullshit. That was the first time the ref asked Orton if he wanted to quit to. It was a horrible match, especially when compared to I Quit matches of the past. I don't see what everyone sees in Cena. If he is as good as you all think that he is, then why has his last few PPV matches been so horrible?

Welcome to wrestling 101. The babyface gets his arse kicked for the whole match and manages to find a way to steal it at the end. It's how wrestling has always been. Hogan did it. Hart did it. Rock did it. Austin did it. So why can't Cena do it?

I found last nights match very entertaining. For a start it was one of only two matches that the fans actually gave a shit about, Cena manages to do that.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Welcome to wrestling 101. The babyface gets his arse kicked for the whole match and manages to find a way to steal it at the end. It's how wrestling has always been. Hogan did it. Hart did it. Rock did it. Austin did it. So why can't Cena do it?

You are right, Hogan did do it! Like Cena, this was all that he did. Now I want to focus on the ridiculous claim that Austin, The Rock, or Hart did it! Really? Can you provide examples please? Not just one! I'm sure that is one, maybe even two matches out there where it happened to them, but I guarantee you that it didn't happen to them more often than not. I am positive that The Rock or Austin didn't use this psychology an aweful lot! Nor did Foley, 'Taker, Angle, most everybody for that matter. Your heel/face theory, as I have said a million times before, only works for Cena and Hogan. Sorry!

I found last nights match very entertaining. For a start it was one of only two matches that the fans actually gave a shit about, Cena manages to do that.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but watching on the tele, it takes more than crowd reaction to entertain me. The match was another Cena horrible match and, like I said, when compared to past I Quit matches, this match didn't live up to the hype!

 

[Hulkamaniac]

^^^LOL at this guy. Austin's whole thing was designed around that. His finishing move was designed to be so sudden so he could have that sudden, quick comeback after getting his ass kicked. Foley's entire career is getting his ass kicked and overcoming it at the end.

However, even if it was just Hogan and Cena...that's two of the top 6 draws in WWF history. Cena's probably higher tahn sixth, but I'm ust being conservative to cover my ass.

 

[The Todd]

You are right, Hogan did do it! Like Cena, this was all that he did. Now I want to focus on the ridiculous claim that Austin, The Rock, or Hart did it! Really? Can you provide examples please? Not just one! I'm sure that is one, maybe even two matches out there where it happened to them, but I guarantee you that it didn't happen to them more often than not. I am positive that The Rock or Austin didn't use this psychology an aweful lot! Nor did Foley, 'Taker, Angle, most everybody for that matter. Your heel/face theory, as I have said a million times before, only works for Cena and Hogan. Sorry!

When they were faces and facing the big heels, they did get their arse kicked for large portions of the match before inevitably winning in the end. I can't speak much for Hart as I haven't seen much of his work, so I will take that one back, but I have seen Austin and The Rock compete in matches where the odds are stacked against them, they have taken an absolute pounding but won the match in the end. It's basic wrestling.

That bit aside, if Cena is doing what Hogan did, who was one of the two biggest wrestlers ever, how is that a bad thing? Cena plays the role well of the superman face. This character is a valuable one in wrestling history, but obviously not one that has you interested.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but watching on the tele, it takes more than crowd reaction to entertain me. The match was another Cena horrible match and, like I said, when compared to past I Quit matches, this match didn't live up to the hype!

It wasn't as good as Hart/Austin or Rock/Foley for me but it was a great match with a great story. Again, it is near impossible to please every fan though.

 

[SSJPhenom]

^^^Who in the blue hell is this guy? Hulkamaniac, really?

You really think that Austin's career was centered around the big comeback? I seem to remember Austin coming out and whipping just about eveyone's ass that was in sight! I really can't recall him ever getting beat for the majority of a match. Hell, he didn't even get dominated by 'Taker back in that day like everyone else was doing. I'm sorry, only works for Hogan/Cena.