The *Official* John Cena Thread

[SSJPhenom]

Must admit I'm starting to enjoy this TakerFan1....

I am too. I like to argue with Cena fanatics.

Really? C'mon it doesn't. Because the guy doesn't....

Just try it once, you start with CENA and then you end with an emphatic SUCKS!

Thanks...

I call it like I see it. Well played Paradox, well played indeed(see what I did there, I took something completely corny that Cena said and used it).

Oh, ok... If you are talking about Cena in that way, look at every other superstar in the wwe. It's the case with all of them. Fact. Look at Triple h, Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio, Jeff Hardy, Edge, Taker, Matt Hardy, Randy Orton. (who is basically back to what he was a year ago) What have any of them done besides change heel face in the last five years? Taker is the only one that has changed anything, and he only added a couple of moves.

Yes, but at least Shawn Michaels didn't change the SCM to something like, Super fantastic face kick. The Attitude Adjustment is just boring, F U was actually cool. Way to go Cena, you actually had something that I liked about you and you had to ruin it!

First off, what Hype did the Cena Batista match get? It was put on in like 3 weeks. So am I right to assume that you found his matches with JBL good. If that's the case, then you agree that he was very good last year. Considering he was only there for half the year.

Oh come on. Wrestling fans had been talking about them hooking it up for years. I even remember posting on a thread on this site about it. The match had hype and I don't think that it lived up to it. 'Taker and Batista was far better, especially their HIAC.

And what has Cryme tyme done? yeah that's right nothing.

I know they've done nothing, but my point was people like HBK could take someone like JTG and make him look great for 30 minutes.

Miz is a future main eventer, he has proven that he could get it done on the mic. The only thing that he had left to do was to prove it in the ring which he did. Look Cena elevated him to a credible state.

If The Miz becomes the next great main eventer in the WWE, they might lose a fan. Wow, the quality of wrestling really has declined of the last 5 or so years. I didn't want to believe it, but you have opened my eyes.

Yeah, like I said, nothing....

Agreed, nothing at all.

EXACTLY, so don't blame it on Cena.

I wasn't blaming Cena for that match sucking. I was simply saying that the match doesn't deserve the credit that you all are giving it. If you want to make a list of matches to give to me to prove Cena's merits, please omit that one.

Yes he does, look at the matches that I given you before. Gah, if he doesn't have the chops he wouldn't be on the level that he is.

Maybe I just like a different style of wrestling then opposed to you. I don't see what is so great about Cena. My preferred style is that of an Orton or 'Taker. You know, mythotical, stalking, taking your time to inflict as much pain as possible. That's why I like Angle and Bret Hart and HBK.

So the tlc match was mediocre? If you think that your nuts, it was one of the best one on one tlc matches.

It was just as good as Edge vs. 'Taker TLC and if you say it wasn't, then don't bring it up ever again. When these two TLC matches are compared to those of the past, they SUCK!

Good...

Great.

BTW....... NO HE DOESN'T.

He does!

Yeah, we know that you think Cena sucks, but we don't see it that way. Because in our opinion he is one of the best right now.

In my opinion, he stinks right now.

Yeah, a lot of rest hold, I remember watching Rock vs Triple, I don't remember near as many rest hold, and I also remember it telling a damn good story. Also in my opinion, it was the better of the two matches.

Look at HBK vs Hart WM 12. It is famous because that whole story was the, "Boyhood Dream," story. It told the story of Shawn Michaels finally being considered good enough to go against the best in Hart. Then the match ended in a draw and we thought, "Damn it, you almost did kid." Then Mansoon gives him another chance and he finally acheived his dream. It was epic.

What did Austin do? Really, you want to complain about 5 moves that Cena uses, what the hell else did Austin use? The only move I can remember see Austin use was a lois press or whatever it's called. Then his submission from his ringmaster gimmick, then a stunner. Really c'mon, Austin was made because of his character not his wrestling ability

I can recall Austin using the sharpshooter alot in the late 90's, cobra clutch, he used a spinebuster quite alot, scoopslams, he used to do a middle rope elbow and theres more.

Time will tell...

Oh it will, it will.

Sorry got to say it again. BULLSHIT. Seriously? You really can't give Cena any credit can you? Look they went for nearly an hour. I've told you once and you agreed with me. You can't have a great match, or an hour long match without two great in ring performers. Look at the matches that have gone an hour? HBK v Hart, no question there. HHH vs Rock, no question there. Lesnar v Angle, nope. So yeah can't say that a match goes for an hour and is a great match is all on one guy.

I guess I can give Cena about 30% of the credit and I am being generous. He did perform well that night(For him), but the wrestlers say it all the time, when you are in the ring with one of the best(The best today by far) then it is alot easier. HBK stole the show.

And Cena can't? You want to see Cena work a crowd. Look at One Night Stand against RVD. He came in hated and he played that off. Yeah, and when wrestling wasn't a problem for Austin what was he? Oh yeah, a mid-carder, nothing more!

I never said that Cena couldn't work a crowd, I said that he isn't on Hogan's level at working a crowd. Hogan made people not even worry about his lack of physical ability because he had you on the edge of your seat. Cena, on the other hand(a man that I have met and have seen live on more than one occasion) isn't good enough at working the crowd to make you forget about his lack of physical ability. BTW, I actually feared for Cena's life in the match with RVD, that is the best heat that I have ever seen anyone get. Cena, I actually applaud you for that, but don't get used to it.

BTW, Cena don't suck because people boo him or think he can't wrestle, Cena sucks because Undertaker's#1fan said so(lol, my friend made me put that in there).

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I am too. I like to argue with Cena fanatics.



Just try it once, you start with CENA and then you end with an emphatic SUCKS!



I call it like I see it. Well played Paradox, well played indeed(see what I what I did there, I took something completely corny that Cena said and used it).



Yes, but at least Shawn Michaels didn't change the SCM to something like, Super fantastic face kick. The Attitude Adjustment is just boring, F U was actually cool. Way to go Cena, you actually had something that I liked about you and you had to ruin it!



Oh come on. Wrestling fans had been talking about them hooking it up for years. I even remember posting on a thread on this site about it. The match had hype and I don't think that it lived up to it. 'Taker and Batista was far better, especially their HIAC.



I know they've done nothing, but my point was people like HBK could take someone like JTG and make him look great for 30 minutes.



If The Miz becomes the next great main eventer in the WWE, they might lose a fan. Wow, the quality of wrestling really has declined of the last 5 or so years. I didn't want to believe it, but you have opened my eyes.



Agreed, nothing at all.



I wasn't blaming Cena for that match sucking. I was simply saying that the match doesn't deserve the credit that you all are giving it. If you want to make a list of matches to give to me to prove Cena's merits, please omit that one.



Maybe I just like a different style of wrestling then opposed to you. I don't see what is so great about Cena. My preferred style is that of an Orton or 'Taker. You know, mythotical, stalking, taking your time to inflict as much pain as possible. That's why I like Angle and Bret Hart and HBK.



It was just as good as Edge vs. 'Taker TLC and if you say it wasn't, then don't bring it up ever again. When these two TLC matches are compared to those of the past, they SUCK!



Great.



He does!



In my opinion, he stinks right now.



Look at HBK vs Hart WM 12. It is famous because that whole story was the, "Boyhood Dream," story. It told the story of Shawn Michaels finally being considered good enough to go against the best in Hart. Then the match ended in a draw and we thought, "Damn it, you almost did kid." Then Mansoon gives him another chance and he finally acheived his dream. It was epic.



I can recall Austin using the sharpshooter alot in the late 90's, cobra clutch, he used a spinebuster quite alot, scoopslams, he used to do a middle rope elbow and theres more.



Oh it will, it will.



I guess I can give Cena about 30% of the credit and I am being generous. He did perform well that night(For him), but the wrestlers say it all the time, when you are in the ring with one of the best(The best today by far) then it is alot easier. HBK stole the show.



I never said that Cena couldn't work a crowd, I said that he isn't on Hogan's level at working a crowd. Hogan made people not even worry about his lack of physical ability because he had you on the edge of your seat. Cena, on the other hand(a man that I have met and have seen live on more than one occasion) isn't good enough at working the crowd to make you forget about his lack of physical ability. BTW, I actually feared for Cena's life in the match with RVD, that is the best heat that I have ever seen anyone get. Cena, I actually applaud you for that, but don't get used to it.

BTW, Cena don't suck because people boo him or think he can't wrestle, Cena suck because Undertaker's#1fan said so(lol, my friend made me put that in there).

1. Taker vs. Batista HIAC was one of the worst HIAC matches in my opinion, but we'll leave it at that.

2. How isn't Cena good enough to work the crowd to mask his imaginable "lack of physical ability". If you did watch his match with RVD at ONS, he had the crowd in the palm of his hand and worked that match perfectly. If HBK is so great, how come his matches with Jericho weren't great or pretty much most of his matches since 2002.

3. You do know they changed the name of his finisher because of the PG thing, right.

4. You said you like mythodical styles of wrestling and you threw HBK in there which is laughable. He has the worst offense of any main eventer I've ever seen. The only offense you see from him is chest chop, flying forearm, atomic drop, flying elbow, and SCM which connects about 10% of the time. He gets beat down 90% of the match but then comes back to win and you don't criticize him, yet you criticize Cena for doing the same thing.

 

[SSJPhenom]

But if your argument is "he didn't always do them in succession leading towards the finish", then I defy you to defend the modern wrestling God that is Shawn Michaels. Leaps up, a couple atomic drops, fists, flying forearm, elbow, SCM. In the average match, he follows this routine religiously, changing the order on occasion. Once in a while he'll exchange finishers and kickouts with a guy, and then suddenly his match is a classic... How does that happen? In fact, and it seems you aren't willing to recognize it, key moves are a part of the style of wrestling WWE has Cena do. Everyone has their own moves designed to pop the crowd, with wrestlers rarely expected to do anything extra. But to pretend Cena has never gone that extra mile is bullshit. Plain and simple, you aren't watching.

I have never once said that wrestlers don't do signatures. Read some previous posts that I have made. I simply say that, all Cena does do is signatures besides a few transistion moves. BTW, what you said about HBK is the best thing that you have said. He is a modern wrestling GOD!

These matches are better than Cena matches because you remember them? What kind of criteria for judging the greatness of a match is "I remember it"? I want to know what, specifically, was good about each match. I want you to not leave out a single detail. Psychology, storytelling, the whole nine.

Yes, if a match is good enough that you can remember it years down the road and have not watched it for years, but you can still remember it, then what's that, a bad match? Hell, there are matches from last year that I can't even remember. But I remember the HBK vs Cena match on Raw and I have not seen that match since it aired.

See, I could just as easily say the Can-Am Connection vs. Bob Orton and Magnificent Muraco from WM3 is a great match because I remember it... by your standards. Your standards don't really hold up here... or make much sense.

Well if you remember it, then it must be a good match. My standards are my standards. I'm not asking anyone to abide by them. I was asked what I considered a classic and I explained. Tell me, what do you consider a classic match?

But see, this makes the matches good! Because I remember them!

GET IT?!

Yea, I get it. I understand.

Because you long for the glory days. Because you read the wrong wrestling websites.

Maybe I do long for the glory days. Wrestling has certainly not gotten any better in the past decade. Besides WWE.com I don't visit any wrestling sites outside of this one.

Because you don't recognize how ass backwards your standards are and what a massive hypocrite you look like. Because it's just a matter of taste but you've decided to refuse to be the bigger man and admit there's nothing wrong with Cena and you just simply don't like him and make it simple.

Please explain how I am a hypocrit. Maybe it is a matter of taste and I don't like Cena. We can debate this and you can try to lay the holy book of Cena loving on me, but it is always going to remain that I do not like John Cena
!

Wait... Cena isn't a trained wrestling?!

Oh, right. He is.

I never said he wasn't trained(he might be badly trained) I said he couldn't wrestle. Maybe he needs more training.

Oh, one more thing. Yesterday you said that Taker remained more relevant with the fans than Cena. This was an outright lie, but you declined to defend yourself. I'll bring it up again and again until you nut up and give a proper answer.

Yes 'Taker does remain relevant with the fans. He takes frequent breaks, since his career started he has changed character, costume, finishers and wrestling styles. As opposed to HBK or HHH, who have remained the same for over 10 years. I even think that Batista needs to turn heel or something because I am fed up with him.

The difference with HBK and HHH though, is, they are proven, they know what they are doing. Cena has the titles and he has the company right now, but he isn't anywhere near their level.

Cena promos on a regular basis. Undertaker does not. Cena's entrance has changed over the course of four years. Taker's has not. In the last four years, Taker changed his pants once to a tighter, more athletic looking pair of bottoms. Cena has changed the look of his short multiple times and frequently has new shirts for the fans to take joy in. In addition, he's gone from throwbacks to WWE merch during the course of his development. When was the last time Taker changed his mindset?! In addition, Taker has added one move to his routine in the last decade. Cena has crafted himself something completely new in that decade. Taker has been an afterthought. Cena has been the face of wrestling and even had his own title belt made which is still being used today.

Cena is far more relevant than Taker.

Yea Cena's entrance has changed of the course of four year, he salutes now. Taker has added fire to his entrance in the last 4 years, is that not a change. Taker can't come out wearing t shirts and ball caps and shit like that. But watch him when he was the American Bad Ass. He came out with cut up t shirt, a new mind you, almost every week.

And do you really look at Cena's shorts?

 

[SSJPhenom]

1. Taker vs. Batista HIAC was one of the worst HIAC matches in my opinion, but we'll leave it at that.

Let's leave it at that.

2. How isn't Cena good enough to work the crowd to mask his imaginable "lack of physical ability". If you did watch his match with RVD at ONS, he had the crowd in the palm of his hand and worked that match perfectly. If HBK is so great, how come his matches with Jericho weren't great or pretty much most of his matches since 2002.

I have already said that he worked the crowd good in that match or didn't you read that part? I want you to prove to me that HBK's matches since 2002 have sucked, please. NOTE: You better start a new thread for this one because I would no longer debate Cena with you.

3. You do know they changed the name of his finisher because of the PG thing, right.

They could have used something better though. I mean, you can tell that they are trying to sell him to kids.

4. You said you like mythodical styles of wrestling and you threw HBK in there which is laughable. He has the worst offense of any main eventer I've ever seen. The only offense you see from him is chest chop, flying forearm, atomic drop, flying elbow, and SCM which connects about 10% of the time. He gets beat down 90% of the match but then comes back to win and you don't criticize him, yet you criticize Cena for doing the same thing.

HBK, in his hey day, was mythodical and percise. I think that he has earned the right to sort of slack off now and give us that one or two great matches a year. He can have one whenever he wants because he is proven. John Cena is in his hey day, and I swear if you say that Cena now is just as good as HBK then..............................

 

[Paradox]

I am too. I like to argue with Cena fanatics.

Good for you.

Just try it once, you start with CENA and then you end with an emphatic SUCKS!

I was on that train about 3 years ago, when it was somewhat true.

I call it like I see it. Well played Paradox, well played indeed(see what I did there, I took something completely corny that Cena said and used it).

Well congratulations you just won the award for I'm the biggest.... ah who am I kidding. I can't pull it off...

Yes, but at least Shawn Michaels didn't change the SCM to something like, Super fantastic face kick. The Attitude Adjustment is just boring, F U was actually cool. Way to go Cena, you actually had something that I liked about you and you had to ruin it!

It wasn't Cena who changed the name it was creative, because of the pg thing. You should know that if you follow wrestling as closely as you say you do.

Oh come on. Wrestling fans had been talking about them hooking it up for years. I even remember posting on a thread on this site about it. The match had hype and I don't think that it lived up to it. 'Taker and Batista was far better, especially their HIAC.

bahahahahahaha.... HIAC match... lol That wasn't even that great of a cell match, i could list at least 5 better than it.

If The Miz becomes the next great main eventer in the WWE, they might lose a fan. Wow, the quality of wrestling really has declined of the last 5 or so years. I didn't want to believe it, but you have opened my eyes.

Oh here we go again. Really, come on the guy is a solid, is he the best no, but give him time he can be a star.

I wasn't blaming Cena for that match sucking. I was simply saying that the match doesn't deserve the credit that you all are giving it. If you want to make a list of matches to give to me to prove Cena's merits, please omit that one.

Yet, you were using it to criticize Cena after someone brought it up...

Maybe I just like a different style of wrestling then opposed to you. I don't see what is so great about Cena. My preferred style is that of an Orton or 'Taker. You know, mythotical, stalking, taking your time to inflict as much pain as possible. That's why I like Angle and Bret Hart and HBK.

When was HBK mythotical or stalking? Never, he's used the same moves since made it big the first time. That's the biggest load of crap.

It was just as good as Edge vs. 'Taker TLC and if you say it wasn't, then don't bring it up ever again. When these two TLC matches are compared to those of the past, they SUCK!

Did I say that no, I said it was a great match for it being one on one. Because the match wasn't made to be a one on one match in my opinion. So No i wasn't

Look at HBK vs Hart WM 12. It is famous because that whole story was the, "Boyhood Dream," story. It told the story of Shawn Michaels finally being considered good enough to go against the best in Hart. Then the match ended in a draw and we thought, "Damn it, you almost did kid." Then Mansoon gives him another chance and he finally acheived his dream. It was epic.

Yeah the build up was great, the match was lackluster at best. Like I said there have been better Iron man or hour long matches then that.

I can recall Austin using the sharpshooter alot in the late 90's, cobra clutch, he used a spinebuster quite alot, scoopslams, he used to do a middle rope elbow and theres more.

Let's see, when did he use those in his prime? Show me where he used a Sharpshooter... He used the cobra clutch once when he had made it. That was it.

I guess I can give Cena about 30% of the credit and I am being generous. He did perform well that night(For him), but the wrestlers say it all the time, when you are in the ring with one of the best(The best today by far) then it is alot easier. HBK stole the show.

30%? Really, are you out of your mind, look at the first part of that match, hell the majority of that match was on Cena, he was in control and Hbk was along for the ride. Sorry, they both stole the show.

I never said that Cena couldn't work a crowd, I said that he isn't on Hogan's level at working a crowd. Hogan made people not even worry about his lack of physical ability because he had you on the edge of your seat.[Q/UOTE]

ok... So you admit that he can.

Cena, on the other hand(a man that I have met and have seen live on more than one occasion) isn't good enough at working the crowd to make you forget about his lack of physical ability. BTW, I actually feared for Cena's life in the match with RVD, that is the best heat that I have ever seen anyone get. Cena, I actually applaud you for that, but don't get used to it.

Holy shit you gave Cena props.... That and you made my point he had those fans eating out of the palm of his hand, from his entrance to the way he conducted himself in the ring. Cena knows how to work a crowd.

BTW, Cena don't suck because people boo him or think he can't wrestle, Cena sucks because Undertaker's#1fan said so(lol, my friend made me put that in there).

hahaha aren't you cute.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Let's leave it at that.



I have already said that he worked the crowd good in that match or didn't you read that part? I want you to prove to me that HBK's matches since 2002 have sucked, please. NOTE: You better start a new thread for this one because I would no longer debate Cena with you.



They could have used something better though. I mean, you can tell that they are trying to sell him to kids.



HBK, in his hey day, was mythodical and percise. I think that he has earned the right to sort of slack off now and give us that one or two great matches a year. He can have one whenever he wants because he is proven. John Cena is in his hey day, and I swear if you say that Cena now is just as good as HBK then..............................

1. Well duh you can tell they are trying to sell him to kids because merchandise sales will increase and I honestly believe the crowd doesn't give a fuck what the finisher is named. Just as long as it used to hit matches. If that's the case, Sweet Chin Music should be renamed Sweet Chest Music because that's where it connects half the time.

2. I don't know if you got in your mind that I said Cena is better now than HBK was better then but let me put it to you clearly. Right now, right now, right now, Cena is a better worker, performer, and an all-around better wrestler than HBK is. Emphasis on the right now part.

 

[Coco]

I have never once said that wrestlers don't do signatures. Read some previous posts that I have made. I simply say that, all Cena does do is signatures besides a few transistion moves. BTW, what you said about HBK is the best thing that you have said. He is a modern wrestling GOD!

HBK does the same thing as Cena most of the time.

Explain the difference. You still haven't.

Yes, if a match is good enough that you can remember it years down the road and have not watched it for years, but you can still remember it, then what's that, a bad match?

It very well may be. I mean we all recall Goldberg vs. Lesnar, don't we?

And none of this explains why HBK vs. Bret, or any of those other matches you threw out, are superior to the Cena matches I mentioned.

Hell, there are matches from last year that I can't even remember. But I remember the HBK vs Cena match on Raw and I have not seen that match since it aired.

Good for you. But you skipped over the question in my last post where I asked WHY the London match is something you credit HBK's ability with and not Cena's. If we're going to have a proper discussion, learn to answer my fucking questions rather than dancing around them when you know you don't have a proper answer for me. Kay? Thanks, love.

Well if you remember it, then it must be a good match.

Kane vs. The Great Khali, Wrestlemania 23... because I remember it.

My standards are my standards.

Your standards suck.

Tell me, what do you consider a classic match?

One that tells a good story and engages the crowd without pandering to the point where they're trading pointless holds and going through the motions in an attempt to be "classic." Hogan vs. Savage @ WM5 does this for me. Austin vs. Bret @ WM13 does this for me. Bret vs. Diesel @ Survivor Series '95 does this for me. Joe vs. Punk @ All-Star Extravaganza 2 does this for me. Michaels vs. Cena in London does this for me.

What doesn't do it for me is tripe like Angle-Michaels (WM21) and Bret-Michaels (WM12). One has what must be 20 minutes (at least) of senseless headlock sequences to run down the clock while the other spends a quarter hour doing holds that don't matter once the second half of the match comes along and the two participants (Michaels and Angle) go into spot-fest mode without any story to be seen. It was RVD-Lynn style psychology, but at least RVD and Lynn had some unique looking matches. Angle-Michaels was just trash.

Please explain how I am a hypocrit. Maybe it is a matter of taste and I don't like Cena.

So say you don't like him. But saying certain things you've identified as good are such while saying Cena sucks is a double-standard, plain and simple.

We can debate this and you can try to lay the holy book of Cena loving on me, but it is always going to remain that I do not like John Cena

So why bother having a discussion if you can't go in with an open mind?

He takes frequent breaks, since his career started[/QUOTE]
Not showing up to work on a regular basis = great showman. Gotcha.

he has changed character, costume, finishers and wrestling styles.

Not in five years. Stale.

As opposed to HBK or HHH, who have remained the same for over 10 years.

Not really. Triple H has defined himself as a main event in the last ten years, going from leather and jean jackets to the one of high flying big shots in Evolution, and so on. Michaels has actually shown character development, especially over the last year. Some examples before the last year include Michaels came back in 2002 no longer the heel with attitude but as a babyface, having a conflict with himself over how to deal with the McMahons, playing heel for the Hogan feud, and reforming DX. As thick as Michaels lays in on, he's anything but stagnant. Unlike Taker.

Oh, and HBK and Triple H both... took time off.

The difference with HBK and HHH though, is, they are proven, they know what they are doing. Cena has the titles and he has the company right now, but he isn't anywhere near their level.

Elaborate.

Yea Cena's entrance has changed of the course of four year, he salutes now.

And runs. Still, more progress than Taker.

Taker has added fire to his entrance in the last 4 years, is that not a change.

A purely cosmetic change and hardly a significant one. It's the same thing it's been for the last five years and then that's still a play on his old entrance. Cena invented himself in five years while Taker became and afterthought and a stale one at that.

Fun fact: Even when Taker was a main eventer in recent years, the fans were more into Cena's main event matches. Edge-Taker fell flat on most occasions while Cena played to lively audiences, not to mention that Taker-Batista was deemed unworthy to close despite the fact that it featured a title change and a major one-on-one gimmick rematch on a PPV where Cena closed with an off-month multi-man clusterfuck that didn't really matter at all.

Cena is far more relevant than Taker.

And do you really look at Cena's shorts?

Why wouldn't I? It's certainly easier than picturing him wrestling nude.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Good for you.

Thanks....

I was on that train about 3 years ago, when it was somewhat true.

Tell me, what has Cena changed in the last three years to make you jump the banwagon?

Well congratulations you just won the award for I'm the biggest.... ah who am I kidding. I can't pull it off...

No, finish it. I'm dying to know.

It wasn't Cena who changed the name it was creative, because of the pg thing. You should know that if you follow wrestling as closely as you say you do.

Yes, I know that. Don't you think that they could've used something a little tougher or edgier though? I mean, you can tell that they are trying to sell Cena to kids.

bahahahahahaha.... HIAC match... lol That wasn't even that great of a cell match, i could list at least 5 better than it.

I could name 5 aswell. However, it was better than such HIAC matches as HHH vs Nash, or HHH vs Jericho, or hell, even 'Taker vs Mankind(that match was just big spot after big spot, if he didn't go flying off the cage that match would not be remembered).

Oh here we go again. Really, come on the guy is a solid, is he the best no, but give him time he can be a star.

I don't think that we should argue The Miz. He might be a star, he might not, however, I will wait for, "The *Official* Miz Thread," to argue that one with you.

Yet, you were using it to criticize Cena after someone brought it up...

No I was not. I just simply stated that the match didn't deserve all the credit that you Cena marks want to give it. That was shit, idc who was in it, that match SUCKED!

When was HBK mythotical or stalking? Never, he's used the same moves since made it big the first time. That's the biggest load of crap.

Maybe I went a bit too far with HBK, however, he seems to be able to adapt very well. Watch his matches with Angle. He was mythodical in those.

Did I say that no, I said it was a great match for it being one on one. Because the match wasn't made to be a one on one match in my opinion. So No i wasn't

Agreed. The TLC matches were not made to be one on one matches, but don't use that as an excuse to cover up Cena or Edge. It was still a match and a TLC match at that, and since it was the first one on one TLC match, then it has to be compared to somthing and when compared to the ones before it, it STUNK!

Yeah the build up was great, the match was lackluster at best. Like I said there have been better Iron man or hour long matches then that.

I haven't seen a better Iron Man match myself but I have seen better hour long matches. Flair vs Rhodes, Sting, Ricky The Dragon Steamboat, Terry Funk, on and on.

Let's see, when did he use those in his prime? Show me where he used a Sharpshooter... He used the cobra clutch once when he had made it. That was it.

Oh c'mon. He used the sharpshooter just about anytime he fought anyone from the Hart foundation. I still have a t shirt of him doing it Bret Hart. He has used it on Michaels and he has used it on the Rock. If you follow wrestling as closely as you say you do, you would know this(To still a line from you).

30%? Really, are you out of your mind, look at the first part of that match, hell the majority of that match was on Cena, he was in control and Hbk was along for the ride. Sorry, they both stole the show.

I'm sorry, but HBK has never been along for the ride in any match that he has been in. How about I up it to 40%, but the fact remains that, let's say, if it had have been HHH in the match and not HBK, then the match would have sucked.

ok... So you admit that he can.

Yes, Cena can work a crowd. There, are you happy? He still isn't as good as past greats, but he can work a crowd.

Holy shit you gave Cena props.... That and you made my point he had those fans eating out of the palm of his hand, from his entrance to the way he conducted himself in the ring. Cena knows how to work a crowd.

Yes I gave Cena props, but I don't forsee many more in the future. So you better enjoy it.

hahaha aren't you cute.

LOL, I get that alot.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Thanks....



Tell me, what has Cena changed in the last three years to make you jump the banwagon?



No, finish it. I'm dying to know.



Yes, I know that. Don't you think that they could've used something a little tougher or edgier though? I mean, you can tell that they are trying to sell Cena to kids.



I could name 5 aswell. However, it was better than such HIAC matches as HHH vs Nash, or HHH vs Jericho, or hell, even 'Taker vs Mankind(that match was just big spot after big spot, if he didn't go flying off the cage that match would not be remembered).



I don't think that we should argue The Miz. He might be a star, he might not, however, I will wait for, "The *Official* Miz Thread," to argue that one with you.



No I was not. I just simply stated that the match didn't deserve all the credit that you Cena marks want to give it. That was shit, idc who was in it, that match SUCKED!



Maybe I went a bit too far with HBK, however, he seems to be able to adapt very well. Watch his matches with Angle. He was mythodical in those.



Agreed. The TLC matches were not made to be one on one matches, but don't use that as an excuse to cover up Cena or Edge. It was still a match and a TLC match at that, and since it was the first one on one TLC match, then it has to be compared to somthing and when compared to the ones before it, it STUNK!



I haven't seen a better Iron Man match myself but I have seen better hour long matches. Flair vs Rhodes, Sting, Ricky The Dragon Steamboat, Terry Funk, on and on.



Oh c'mon. He used the sharpshooter just about anytime he fought anyone from the Hart foundation. I still have a t shirt of him doing it Bret Hart. He has used it on Michaels and he has used it on the Rock. If you follow wrestling as closely as you say you do, you would know this(To still a line from you).



I'm sorry, but HBK has never been along for the ride in any match that he has been in. How about I up it to 40%, but the fact remains that, let's say, if had have been HHH in the match and not HBK, then the match would have sucked.



Yes, Cena can work a crowd. There, are you happy? He still isn't as good as past greats, but he can work a crowd.



Yes I gave Cena props, but I don't forsee many more in the future. So you better in enjoy it.



LOL, I get that alot.

Just to get a few things out of the way.

1. Rock/HHH was better than HBK/Hart as was Angle/Lesnar. You didn't have the 40 minutes of boring restholds HBK and Hart had and the crowd ate it up. HBK/Angle is overrated because they told no story whatsoever and it evolved into a spotfest.

2. HHH/Nash was shit as well as HHH/Jericho so I guess Batista/Taker was the best of the shit.

3. Concerning you statement on the changing of the name of Cena's finisher, so what if we can tell they are selling it to kids. Why should we care one bit about what the name of a finisher is. As long as it does its intended purpose, I don't care what the name is. The Attitude Adjustment is marketable to kids and that is that.

 

[SSJPhenom]

1. Well duh you can tell they are trying to sell him to kids because merchandise sales will increase and I honestly believe the crowd doesn't give a fuck what the finisher is named. Just as long as it used to hit matches. If that's the case, Sweet Chin Music should be renamed Sweet Chest Music because that's where it connects half the time.

Yes I know that they are trying to sell him to kids. What kind of fans are we? I mean, there used to be a time where we didn't worry about this kind of thing and we just watched and loved wrestling. Now we are talking about merchandise and who his core audience is and such. I'm just saying that AA is a sucky name and yes, I do care what the name is. I refuse to call it the AA.

2. I don't know if you got in your mind that I said Cena is better now than HBK was better then but let me put it to you clearly. Right now, right now, right now, Cena is a better worker, performer, and an all-around better wrestler than HBK is. Emphasis on the right now part.

Right now, right now, right now, I still don't consider Cena on HBK's level. I don't consider anyone in the entire WWE on HBK's level and until you can prove otherwise, I'm sticking with HBK is the best in ring performer right now! He's the showstopper, the main event, the headliner, the icon, and such.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Yes I know that they are trying to sell him to kids. What kind of fans are we? I mean, there used to be a time where we didn't worry about this kind of thing and we just watched and loved wrestling. Now we are talking about merchandise and who his core audience is and such. I'm just saying that AA is a sucky name and yes, I do care what the name is. I refuse to call it the AA.



Right now, right now, right now, I still don't consider Cena on HBK's level. I don't consider anyone in the entire WWE on HBK's level and until you can prove otherwise, I'm sticking with HBK is the best in ring performer right now! He's the showstopper, the main event, the headliner, the icon, and such.

1. Times have changed and that is the reason why there is more talk about merchandise and audience and such. Television and Vince has brought wrestling mainstream and they are making more money than before. I don't care if you refuse to call Cena's finisher the AA, just know what it is when it is hit to win a match 90% of the time.

2. Of late Mysterio and Jericho have been better in-ring performers than HBK. Cena has been better than HBK in the last four or five years and you may not believe it but Cena has had better matches and more memorable matches than HBK.

 

[SSJPhenom]

1. Times have changed and that is the reason why there is more talk about merchandise and audience and such. Television and Vince has brought wrestling mainstream and they are making more money than before. I don't care if you refuse to call Cena's finisher the AA, just know what it is when it is hit to win a match 90% of the time.

And when it is hit, I am going to go, "The F U, he hit the F U!"

2. Of late Mysterio and Jericho have been better in-ring performers than HBK. Cena has been better than HBK in the last four or five years and you may not believe it but Cena has had better matches and more memorable matches than HBK.

I'm still waiting on evidence to support your theory. How come HBK is always a candidate for the match of the year award? Let me ask you, who will that honor this year?

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

And when it is hit, I am going to go, "The F U, he hit the F U!"



I'm still waiting on evidence to support your theory. How come HBK is always a candidate for the match of the year award? Let me ask you, who will that honor this year?

Just go to the new Shawn Michaels thread and air your views on there.

Cena is one of the best today and his matches and his work ethic shows that. He will be around for years to come and cement his place in WWE history. People may not like him but most still cheer for him and buy his merchandise so sometimes that is all that matters.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Just go to the new Shawn Michaels thread and air your views on there.

There is a new Shawn Michaels Thread? Awesome!

Cena is one of the best today and his matches and his work ethic shows that. He will be around for years to come and cement his place in WWE history. People may not like him but most still cheer for him and buy his merchandise so sometimes that is all that matters.

That is a matter of opinion on his matches, however I will give you his work ethic. I respect the man for how hard he works. Back to his matches. I dont see how you all can have such blind love for the man, his matches are no better than they were a few years ago when everyone hated him. I don't like his match style and I don't like his matches, but because he is forced into the spotlight, I have to watch. Yes, I do enjoy Orton and I am glad that he is finally getting his chance(Just in case you come back with something like, "Orton is forced into the spotlight blah blah blah").

 

[Wrath]

I'm a huge Cena fanatic.He's one of my favorites in the current roster right now.He's without a doubt the most underrated wrestler by the fans.This guy breathes WWE.When his music hits I know I'll actually get something special.He's the biggest draw WWE can offer right now.He has never got the respect he should have seen from the internet.I wanted to answer all of the Cena haters points but since there are lots of Cena bashing post I'll answer the most argued things about Cena.

He knows only 5 moves:
Yes he knows 5 moves and it only makes him a better wrestler than he already is.People like Bryan Danielson,Dean Malenko,John Morrison etc. needs to know tons of moves to get over.But John Cena is the most over guy only with his 5 simple moves.Which means Cena>ROH roster combined.

He's only kids/women's favorite:
Yes his fanbase has more kids and women than adults what is wrong with that?Hogan who is arguably the best wrestler ever has a fanbase based on kids and they grow up they still were Hogan's fans.So being the children's favorite is better for the company.

His technical skills are 0:
It's the funniest John Cena argument I've ever heard.Why would someone in Cena's size lay down the mat instead of using power techniques.What makes this argument funny is they love some of their favorites(Foley,Austin,Rock) for the same reasons they hate Cena.Being a good in ring wrestler has nothing to do with technical wrestling.It's about storytelling trying to act like it's a real fight and there's no one on the roster that can do it better than Cena.

Throw Down Our Throats:
Yeah this same argument goes just because he had 3 long reigns and the most funny thing is his last longest reign was 2 years ago.But these are the same people that are bitching about world titles becoming hot potatoes.WWE has every right to do that if you don't have patience WWE has no other way to go.I don't have any problems with long reigns and I think Cena's were really awesome even his matches with Khali were decent.No bad match of Cena you can't list during his reigns instead you can make a list of some of the best matches of that year during that year.

He's like a superman/doesn't put anyone over:
Cena doesn't put anyone over is the most bullshit argument I've ever heard.I think in the current WWE roster nobody puts people more over than him and Edge.I haven't heard in my life Cena refuses a match to lose someone.They also hate Cena being like a Superman after dominated for first 10 minutes but again the funny thing is they love Shawn Michaels because of this in the first place.

I know I get some bad comments about loving Cena but I don't care what people say I think he's the best wrestler WWE can offer right now.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I'm probably the most outspoken Cena critic that you are going to here from, so let's get to it.

I'm a huge Cena fanatic.He's one of my favorites in the current roster right now.He's without a doubt the most underrated wrestler by the fans.This guy breathes WWE.When his music hits I know I'll actually get something special.He's the biggest draw WWE can offer right now.He has never got the respect he should have seen from the internet.I wanted to answer all of the Cena haters points but since there are lots of Cena bashing post I'll answer the most argued things about Cena.

I do respect Cena. I love the man's work ethic and he is a company man. I have never denied that, nor heard any other Cena critic deny that. So to say that he goes unrespected is a bullshit comment on your behalf.

He knows only 5 moves:
Yes he knows 5 moves and it only makes him a better wrestler than he already is.People like Bryan Danielson,Dean Malenko,John Morrison etc. needs to know tons of moves to get over.But John Cena is the most over guy only with his 5 simple moves.Which means Cena>ROH roster combined.

How does this make him a better wrestler? Because he is over with the fans on a limited moveset? No, this makes him a horrible WRESTLER and the only reason that he is over with the fans the way that he is, is because WWE made it so. While the others that you mentioned go out and put on some the best wrestling matches you can even think of, Cena and his limited set of moves rests comfortably at the top. Tell me why that is?

He's only kids/women's favorite:
Yes his fanbase has more kids and women than adults what is wrong with that?Hogan who is arguably the best wrestler ever has a fanbase based on kids and they grow up they still were Hogan's fans.So being the children's favorite is better for the company.

I agree that being the children's favorite is best for the company, however, its not best for those of us who are already grown up and don't want to see it. I will admit, if I were a prebuesent boy right now, I would probably live and die Cena, but since I'm not then I have problems with Cena that I need to address.

His technical skills are 0:
It's the funniest John Cena argument I've ever heard.Why would someone in Cena's size lay down the mat instead of using power techniques.What makes this argument funny is they love some of their favorites(Foley,Austin,Rock) for the same reasons they hate Cena.Being a good in ring wrestler has nothing to do with technical wrestling.It's about storytelling trying to act like it's a real fight and there's no one on the roster that can do it better than Cena.

I will admit that Rock and Foley are limited at best, but you will never find a post of mine praising either one of them for their wrestling know how. I'm not even that a big of fan of The Rock, but that is a arguement for a different day. However, you comment on Austin is bullshit. Go look at some of his matches in WCW, watch the new DVD called Allied Powers, get the Austin DVD. Austin has always had a sound technical know how, he might not have used as much in his later days, but he could do it. Maybe it's because he was injured severely and always had neck and knee problems as to why he didn't do as much, but he could. Where as Cena is in his prime now and he hasn't shown me one iota of technical ability.

Throw Down Our Throats:
Yeah this same argument goes just because he had 3 long reigns and the most funny thing is his last longest reign was 2 years ago.But these are the same people that are bitching about world titles becoming hot potatoes.WWE has every right to do that if you don't have patience WWE has no other way to go.I don't have any problems with long reigns and I think Cena's were really awesome even his matches with Khali were decent.No bad match of Cena you can't list during his reigns instead you can make a list of some of the best matches of that year during that year.

Personally I don't care how many times the title changes hands and I didn't care that Cena had it for nearly a year. However, to say that he wasn't shoved into the spotlight is bullshit. Look at when Austin got over. He wasn't shoved into anything, we, the fans, chose him. He went into WM 13 a major heel and came out as, arguably the most popular superstar in history. We the fans did not chose Cena and that is why he is booed quite often in arenas across the U.S.

He's like a superman/doesn't put anyone over:
Cena doesn't put anyone over is the most bullshit argument I've ever heard.I think in the current WWE roster nobody puts people more over than him and Edge.I haven't heard in my life Cena refuses a match to lose someone.They also hate Cena being like a Superman after dominated for first 10 minutes but again the funny thing is they love Shawn Michaels because of this in the first place.

I will agree that he has put over Swagger, but that is all that I can think of in my recent memory. Let's talk about his superman aspect. Yes he does get his ass kicked by everyone that he faces and he miraclously comes back for the win off his "5 moves of impending doom." That sucks. It makes me feel like I could go in there and whip Cena's ass for at least 10 minutes until he does his signatures. Also, talk about HBK all you want to. You must have missed him in the 90's, didn't you? He might do this more now in the twilight of his career, but he still doesn't do it to the extent that Cena does. NO one does it to that extent.

I know I get some bad comments about loving Cena but I don't care what people say I think he's the best wrestler WWE can offer right now.

I don't care if you love Cena or if you hate him. Loving him isn't why you are going to get comments from people. Arguing that he is a god send and the best right now is going to get you comments from people.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

How does this make him a better wrestler? Because he is over with the fans on a limited moveset? No, this makes him a horrible WRESTLER and the only reason that he is over with the fans the way that he is, is because WWE made it so. While the others that you mentioned go out and put on some the best wrestling matches you can even think of, Cena and his limited set of moves rests comfortably at the top. Tell me why that is?

I'm going to pick this part of your argument to pick apart. Malenko knew plenty of more moves than Cena but why wasn't he as popular and loved as Cena. He had no charisma and was dull as a butter knife plain and simple. I've been telling you and telling you but you don't seem to understand. It doesn't matter if you know every wrestling move known to man. If you can't connect with the fans and sell merchandise, you are basically worthless. Cena can connect with the fans and entertain the crowd even with this so called limited moveset. This concept isn't hard to grasp. The WWE stands for World Wrestling Entertainment and the key word is entertainment. A pro wrestler is basically a entertainer and Cena does that better than anybody right now. If Malenko had a tenth of the charisma Cena has, maybe he will be remembered as an all-time great. But he doesn't so he's not.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I will agree that he has put over Swagger, but that is all that I can think of in my recent memory. Let's talk about his superman aspect. Yes he does get his ass kicked by everyone that he faces and he miraclously comes back for the win off his "5 moves of impending doom." That sucks. It makes me feel like I could go in there and whip Cena's ass for at least 10 minutes until he does his signatures. Also, talk about HBK all you want to. You must have missed him in the 90's, didn't you? He might do this more now in the twilight of his career, but he still doesn't do it to the extent that Cena does. NO one does it to that extent.

So tell me how many people HBK has put over? At least Cena has put somebody over recently, more recently than Michaels. Cena just does what the crowd wants him to do. Him getting dominated most of the match gives the crowd the belief that he won't. Him coming back to win makes the crowd happy. Hogan did it the same way and now that Cena is doing it.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I'm going to pick this part of your argument to pick apart. Malenko knew plenty of more moves than Cena but why wasn't he as popular and loved as Cena. He had no charisma and was dull as a butter knife plain and simple. I've been telling you and telling you but you don't seem to understand. It doesn't matter if you know every wrestling move known to man. If you can't connect with the fans and sell merchandise, you are basically worthless. Cena can connect with the fans and entertain the crowd even with this so called limited moveset. This concept isn't hard to grasp. The WWE stands for World Wrestling Entertainment and the key word is entertainment. A pro wrestler is basically a entertainer and Cena does that better than anybody right now. If Malenko had a tenth of the charisma Cena has, maybe he will be remembered as an all-time great. But he doesn't so he's not.

I agree one hunderd percent about what you said about Malenko and you don't have to tell me about charisma and such. There is more to Pro Wrestling than the actual, "wrestling." I can't deny Cena has the crowd and had the ability to entertain, but it is the total package that makes a great pro wrestler, (only exception being Hogan and Cena isn't anywhere near his ability to entertain) and Cena doesn't have the wrestling part down. Gah, I say it and say it. While we are on the topic, lets go to John Morrison. He has great charisma and he has the ability to entertain. Let's not forget that he is much more fun to watch in the ring than Cena, so why his push coming so late?

 

[SSJPhenom]

So tell me how many people HBK has put over? At least Cena has put somebody over recently, more recently than Michaels. Cena just does what the crowd wants him to do. Him getting dominated most of the match gives the crowd the belief that he won't. Him coming back to win makes the crowd happy. Hogan did it the same way and now that Cena is doing it.

First off, who said anything about HBK and him putting some people over here recently? HBK came up in the 5 moves part of the discussion, but since we are on it. He is one of the main reasons for HHH's success and don't say that HHH brought HBK back in '02. While that me be true, HHH should have done it because HBK did it for him.

Back to Cena, I have said it and said it about Cena. Hogan may have done this, yes, but Hogan was also better at controlling the crowd than Cena is and possibly will ever be. Hogan made you just cheer for him. You didn't care how he won as long as he did. I don't think Cena makes me cheer for him at all, so if I don't care if he wins or not, then all I have left is his moves and I find them to be lacking at best.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I agree one hunderd percent about what you said about Malenko and you don't have to tell me about charisma and such. There is more to Pro Wrestling than the actual, "wrestling." I can't deny Cena has the crowd and had the ability to entertain, but it is the total package that makes a great pro wrestler, (only exception being Hogan and Cena isn't anywhere near his ability to entertain) and Cena doesn't have the wrestling part down. Gah, I say it and say it. While we are on the topic, lets go to John Morrison. He has great charisma and he has the ability to entertain. Let's not forget that he is much more fun to watch in the ring than Cena, so why his push coming so late?

Well it could be that because he has finally turned face and was horrible at being a heel. He suffered from the same thing that Angle did at the end of his career. His flashy moveset was not how a heel is supposed to perform in the ring and he couldn't grasp that concept. The fans were cheering his moves when they were supposed to be booing them. Now that he is a face, he can do what he wants in the ring. He needs to display more storytelling in the ring but I believe that will come in time.

Now with Cena, he knew what he was coming in. He was a heel who got plenty of boos but it wasn't until he turned face that he started getting more main-event opportunities. He knew what the crowd wanted him to do and he did it to perfection. He knows how to tell a story in the ring and make his opponent look good and that is why Cena is more pushed than Morrison.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

First off, who said anything about HBK and him putting some people over here recently? HBK came up in the 5 moves part of the discussion, but since we are on it. He is one of the main reasons for HHH's success and don't say that HHH brought HBK back in '02. While that me be true, HHH should have done it because HBK did it for him.

Back to Cena, I have said it and said it about Cena. Hogan may have done this, yes, but Hogan was also better at controlling the crowd than Cena is and possibly will ever be. Hogan made you just cheer for him. You didn't care how he won as long as he did. I don't think Cena makes me cheer for him at all, so if I don't care if he wins or not, then all I have left is his moves and I find them to be lacking at best.

I guess the other main reasons for HHH's success are Vince and HHH himself. I would put those reasons above HBK any day of the week. HHH did wonders for HBK in that Summerslam match because he played his part to absolute perfection and the sledgehammer attack was a nice touch.

Cena can control the crowd. Maybe not to an extent like Hogan, but he can do it nonetheless. There was a day when I didn't like Cena but I kept watching his matches and realized that all that he does for the business and in the ring, very few people could do. He's in his prime right now and has plenty of years left to entertain and wrestle great matches.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Well it could be that because he has finally turned face and was horrible at being a heel. He suffered from the same thing that Angle did at the end of his career. His flashy moveset was not how a heel is supposed to perform in the ring and he couldn't grasp that concept. The fans were cheering his moves when they were supposed to be booing them. Now that he is a face, he can do what he wants in the ring. He needs to display more storytelling in the ring but I believe that will come in time.

Agreed.

Now with Cena, he knew what he was coming in. He was a heel who got plenty of boos but it wasn't until he turned face that he started getting more main-event opportunities. He knew what the crowd wanted him to do and he did it to perfection. He knows how to tell a story in the ring and make his opponent look good and that is why Cena is more pushed than Morrison.

Your entire comment here is debatable. I don't think Cena tells such a great story because it is the same every time he wrestles. Do I need to tell you what that same thing is again? Yes he can make his oppenents look good because he does the same with everyone of them. Do I need to tell you what that same thing is again? Also, I happen to think that the Shaman of Sexy, the Friday Night Delight, is going to be the next HBK.

 

[Wrath]

I'm probably the most outspoken Cena critic that you are going to
here from, so let's get to it.

Ok.I'm ready.

I do respect Cena. I love the man's work ethic and he is a company man. I have never denied that, nor heard any other Cena critic deny that. So to say that he goes unrespected is a bullshit comment on your behalf.

I meant as a wrestler he's underrated and does not get the respect he deserves.Because wherever forum I go the only thing I hear from people is
Cena sucks,he only knows 5 moves and all that kind of shit and you say he's respected well from the fans.

How does this make him a better wrestler? Because he is over with the fans on a limited moveset? No, this makes him a horrible WRESTLER

Simple.Being a good wrestler means make people care about you and whetever people boo or cheer for Cena they simply care him.

and the only reason that he is over with the fans the way that he is, is because WWE made it so.

Look at Vince what a sob.He made Cena a mega superstar but didn't push the other wrestlers.What kind of a logic is that?If Vince is able to turn every superstar of his to megastars why is Shelton Benjamin still can't be one even after all of that push attempts.Because he has no charisma to get crowd behind his back.

While the others that you mentioned go out and put on some the best wrestling matches you can even think of, Cena and his limited set of moves rests comfortably at the top.

Because professional wrestling is not a legimate sport it's more like a soap opera.If it was about atlethism Shelton Benjamin would've been the top star of the company.I know I always compare these two because Shelton is the most overrated superstar by the internet and Cena is the most underrated one.

Tell me why that is?

I told you being a good wrestler has nothing to do with how many moves you know.If it was in that way there were no difference between a backyard wrestler and a WWE superstar.I watched a lots of stuff and I saw at least 110 kilo guy doing moonsaults and flips so in this logic he is a way better wrestler than %50 of the WWE roster.

I agree that being the children's favorite is best for the company, however, its not best for those of us who are already grown up and don't want to see it. I will admit, if I were a prebuesent boy right now, I would probably live and die Cena, but since I'm not then I have problems with Cena that I need to address.

WWE should go in the direction which benefits them more not which is better for you.

I will admit that Rock and Foley are limited at best, but you will never find a post of mine praising either one of them for their wrestling know how.

I generalised it and it's my first day on this forum I don't know one person in this forum yet.If you have a problem with Cena's moveset then you should have with Rock's and Foley's too.

I'm not even that a big of fan of The Rock, but that is a arguement for a different day.

But you like him even if you're not a big fan of his but hate or don't like Cena for same reasons.It doesn't make any sense

However, you comment on Austin is bullshit.

Actually very meaningful.

Go look at some of his matches in WCW, watch the new DVD called Allied Powers, get the Austin DVD. Austin has always had a sound technical know how, he might not have used as much in his later days, but he could do it. Maybe it's because he was injured severely and always had neck and knee problems as to why he didn't do as much, but he could.

Who cares?If Austin stayed as the technical sound Austin he would be nothing more than a man who was beaten by Savio Vega.When he limited his moveset and only doing kicks,flippings,swear talking stuff it made him a megastar.Your logic flaws again Austin became much much more succesful with a limited moveset than he can be with a larger moveset.

Where as Cena is in his prime now and he hasn't shown me one iota of technical ability.

Why should he?He doesn't need it.He can get the reaction with 5 simple moves.If he's not stupid why does Cena need to use more moves?I'm hell sure Cena has technical ability.Where do I know?He came from where?OVW.Lots of superstars like Lashley,Shelton,Burke,Lesnar,Orton also came from there.Why would trainers teach these guys lots of moves but to Cena only 5 moves?

Personally I don't care how many times the title changes hands and I didn't care that Cena had it for nearly a year.However, to say that he wasn't shoved into the spotlight is bullshit.

Are you deph?Please listen to crowd reactions in the Cena's matches at least %80 of the audience cheer for Cena and the other %20 are just people who think they know business better than everyone else without realising they're just ruining it.

Look at when Austin got over. He wasn't shoved into anything, we, the fans, chose him. He went into WM 13 a major heel and came out as, arguably the most popular superstar in history.

I can't say people didn't but I've never said anything like in wrestling history people only chose Cena for spotlight.

We the fans did not chose Cena and that is why he is booed quite often in arenas across the U.S.

Which year we are in right now?2009.Cena's hatred's 2. anniversary of death.There are only small group of people who boo John Cena.WWE must do what?Choosing %80 of their crowd or only %20 of their crowd.I hope your math is good.

I will agree that he has put over Swagger, but that is all that I can think of in my recent memory.

It means you have a bad memory.Have you forgotten The Miz?Don't start trashtalking like he squashed him,buried him etc.What gave Miz his heat was the opponent he was feuding with.It was that feud that made Miz as a maybe future ME before that he was remembered as nothing more than former tag team champion and the most funny thing is people always complaining about how Cena does not put people over but why don't I remember a Cena match that he refused to lose?

Let's talk about his superman aspect. Yes he does get his ass kicked by everyone that he faces and he miraclously comes back for the win off his "5 moves of impending doom." That sucks. It makes me feel like I could go in there and whip Cena's ass for at least 10 minutes until he does his signatures.

What does RKO,Edge,Hbk and the others do?Tell me an Orton match that wasn't like Orton's being dominated all the time after hitting RKO and 1,2,3.

Also, talk about HBK all you want to. You must have missed him in the 90's, didn't you? He might do this more now in the twilight of his career, but he still doesn't do it to the extent that Cena does. NO one does it to that extent.

Then show me a Hbk match after 2004 that does not finish with same moves.

I don't care if you love Cena or if you hate him.Loving him isn't why you are going to get comments from people. Arguing that he is a god send and the best right now is going to get you comments from people.

And I answered all the comments.

 

[SSJPhenom]

*Sigh* You're going to make me do this, aren't you?

I meant as a wrestler he's underrated and does not get the respect he deserves.Because wherever forum I go the only thing I hear from people is
Cena sucks,he only knows 5 moves and all that kind of shit and you say he's respected well from the fans.

Until Cena shows us, "haters" something else, then he is going to continue being unrespected as a wrestler.

Simple.Being a good wrestler means make people care about you and whetever people boo or cheer for Cena they simply care him.

Yes, being a good PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER is making the people cheer, boo what have you, but being a great PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER(IMO) is a combination of all things, Crowd control, entertaining, and the ability to wrestle.

Look at Vince what a sob.He made Cena a mega superstar but didn't push the other wrestlers.What kind of a logic is that?If Vince is able to turn every superstar of his to megastars why is Shelton Benjamin still can't be one even after all of that push attempts.Because he has no charisma to get crowd behind his back.

You are right, if you don't have charisma you aren't going to make it in this business. But this business isn't all promos and trash talk. I know that alot of people think that it is, but I love to see what is going to happen in the ring and with Cena, I'm disappointed more than I am satisfied.

Because professional wrestling is not a legimate sport it's more like a soap opera.If it was about atlethism Shelton Benjamin would've been the top star of the company.I know I always compare these two because Shelton is the most overrated superstar by the internet and Cena is the most underrated one.

NOTE: See last comment.

WWE should go in the direction which benefits them more not which is better for you.

Of course they should. They are a business, however, I am the paying customer and if I don't like the product, then I am going to complain.

I generalised it and it's my first day on this forum I don't know one person in this forum yet.If you have a problem with Cena's moveset then you should have with Rock's and Foley's too.

I do have a problem with the Rock's and Foley's moveset. If you want to debate about them, start up a new thread and I will be there to tell you why I don't like them.

But you like him even if you're not a big fan of his but hate or don't like Cena for same reasons.It doesn't make any sense

You assume too much. I actually don't like The Rock at all. Outside of his interviews and promos there wasn't anything special about him. I'm glad he went to making movies, because that is where he belongs.

Actually very meaningful.

We'll see.

Who cares?If Austin stayed as the technical sound Austin he would be nothing more than a man who was beaten by Savio Vega.When he limited his moveset and only doing kicks,flippings,swear talking stuff it made him a megastar.Your logic flaws again Austin became much much more succesful with a limited moveset than he can be with a larger moveset.

I'm glad you know this as a fact. Who's to say that it wasn't Austin's in ring work that needed to change, but it was his character. Even as Stone Cold, I recall alot of wrestling from him. I've seen him use the Sharpshooter, cobra clutch, spinebuster, suplexs and the list could go on.

Why should he?He doesn't need it.He can get the reaction with 5 simple moves.If he's not stupid why does Cena need to use more moves?I'm hell sure Cena has technical ability.Where do I know?He came from where?OVW.Lots of superstars like Lashley,Shelton,Burke,Lesnar,Orton also came from there.Why would trainers teach these guys lots of moves but to Cena only 5 moves?

I think that Cena could be even bigger if he used this technical know how that you know for a fact he has. If he actually would show some wrestling moves, he would seriously lose alot of people that dislike him and gain some new fans.

Are you deph?Please listen to crowd reactions in the Cena's matches at least %80 of the audience cheer for Cena and the other %20 are just people who think they know business better than everyone else without realising they're just ruining it.

I'm not deaf. Idk where you are getting this from. He is getting a better reaction now, yes, but there are still plenty of cities that he goes to where he is disliked. Last time they were here, he was booed out of the arena. They will be are again in August for Raw, I am interested in seeing how this one turns out.

I can't say people didn't but I've never said anything like in wrestling history people only chose Cena for spotlight.

I never said you did. I simply said that, instead of the fans choosing Cena, the WWE did and that is why he is disliked by alot of people.

Which year we are in right now?2009.Cena's hatred's 2. anniversary of death.There are only small group of people who boo John Cena.WWE must do what?Choosing %80 of their crowd or only %20 of their crowd.I hope your math is good.

I've already addressed this one.

It means you have a bad memory.Have you forgotten The Miz?Don't start trashtalking like he squashed him,buried him etc.What gave Miz his heat was the opponent he was feuding with.It was that feud that made Miz as a maybe future ME before that he was remembered as nothing more than former tag team champion and the most funny thing is people always complaining about how Cena does not put people over but why don't I remember a Cena match that he refused to lose?

And what is the Miz doing now. It looks like he is in an angle with the divas. Wow, Cena really solidified a spot for him didn't he. It hurt Miz more than it helped. Miz is going to need someone like HBK to bring him up to ME status. I never said that Cena has refused to lose to anyone, but the fact remains that Swagger is the only one ever remotely getting over at this point.

What does RKO,Edge,Hbk and the others do?Tell me an Orton match that wasn't like Orton's being dominated all the time after hitting RKO and 1,2,3.

I want you to show me or name a match and explain it in detail where they are dominated and then win. Please show me. I really want to know.

Then show me a Hbk match after 2004 that does not finish with same moves.

I've already said that he does this more now. Did you miss the part where I asked if you seen him in the 90's?

And I answered all the comments.

You sure did.