The *Official* John Cena Thread

[Black Snow]

I definitely think there's a difference between CAN Cena wrestle and DOES Cena wrestle. Cena has potential. In fact, back in 2003 or so when Cena was a heel and his position on the roster wasn't a lock he would try his ass off week in and week out. As long as he maintained that cutting edge, heel rapper gimmick he knew he had a chance to be big so every week he'd pull out all the stops in the ring. Yes, most of his good matches were against Angle, Benoit and Guerrero but it wasn't just them making him look good. He pulled his weight.

Then the face turn and the push to the moon happened.

Since then I haven't see a truly good Cena match. I've seen passable ones. I've seen insanely overrated ones like Cena/Umaga from the Rumble and the hour long Cena/HBK from RAW. I've seen matches that people were really generous about calling Cena/JBL "I Quit" a good garbage match or people saying that Cena pulled a good match out of Khali. I disagree with those assessments.

It seems to me that Cena is really comfortable with his position she he doesn't feel the need to try. We all know what's going to happen. Crappy should block, Protoplex, 5 Knuckle Shuffle, STF attempt, maybe throw in that horrible looking top rop legdrop that is eventually going to get Cena's leg broken and finally the... sigh... Attitude Adjuster.

No, I don't think Cena is a horrible wrestler at all. The thing that disappoints me is that I've seen flashes of greatness in him before. I've seen potential. I just don't see motivation. That's what annoys me. At least with guys like Kozlov and Khali no one goes into the match expecting it to be good. They don't have talent. But Cena does and he's hasn't chosen to utilize it to any great degree in 5-6 years.

Two of Cena's title reigns have lasted about one year each. Because of that he's the WWE's golden boy and because of THAT the man just doesn't put forward any effort. A heel turn and a year straight of not even being close to the WWE/World title picture would do wonders for that guy.

 

[Id Chokeslam You!]

It seems to me that Cena is really comfortable with his position she he doesn't feel the need to try. We all know what's going to happen. Crappy should block, Protoplex, 5 Knuckle Shuffle, STF attempt, maybe throw in that horrible looking top rop legdrop that is eventually going to get Cena's leg broken and finally the... sigh... Attitude Adjuster.

Two of Cena's title reigns have lasted about one year each. Because of that he's the WWE's golden boy and because of THAT the man just doesn't put forward any effort. A heel turn and a year straight of not even being close to the WWE/World title picture would do wonders for that guy.

Wow, My thoughts exactly...
I have no problem with cena, he is one of the most dedicated entertainers in the wwe. we all know he's kept wwe in a good place, making it mainstream all over again to a whole new adiuence.(SP?)

We all know he's on top because he gets over with the fans, and sells a bunch of merchindise, and a master on the mic.
here's an example of how it could'a been someone else
1) Fan Following
Jeff Hardy (PRE-2nd suspension) was maybe more over than him.(why dont more stars slap hands on the way to the ring?? I was LUCKY enough too have him slap mine @ a house show! Never gonna forget that) he appealed to all ages, and seemed to be on top of the world.
2.Merchindise
jeff 's already one of the top sellers of wwe stuff, imagine if he was the one to beat the undefeated Great Khali, and Umaga/Have 2 one year title reigns. WWE would sold a "Billion" armbands
3 MIC WORK.
ok, no argument here, Jeff needs so much work on the mic.....let alone comparing him to one of the best ever.

It could'a been anyone who's already over with the fans, Had Vince Liked Jeff, this could have been "the Oficial Jeff Hardy thread"

now about that quote, its always john getting beat up in the begining of a match, then hulking up, and its over. When are they gonna stop throwing that missed punch after the 5 knuckle shuffle that always sets up the prototype?lol,
great points black snow,except the effort part, john cena does everything the wwe asks of him, he's does tons of promotional stuff, you know that
change it up wwe! doesnt have to be a heel change, but a year out of title contention would do him wonders.
kiddos wont forget about him if he doesnt have a piece of gold and leather around his waist.

we all know he's the BEST entertainer out there, just stop acting like hes a chris benoit/kurt angle technical god! Dont confuse the term Great wrestler with technical master. he is a GREAT wrestler, great wrestlers can be High-fliers, techies, brawlers. he's just not a tech,

IT COULD HAVE BEEN SOMEONE ELSE, but wwe made a good choice of WHO TO PUSH TO THE MOON!
all the talk of merchindise, makes no sense, without a big push, john would'a never sold so much, maybe with an equal push, we see every1 walkind around in that stupid Dolph Ziggler vest. haha

sorry jeff, your years of dedication, GREAT selling of opponents moves, (just watch the hardy's dvd, everone wanted to wrestle him and matt, they know how to make u look like a million dollars)have been over-looked cause someone else can get the crowd going due to cheap pops and over emotional speeches

it's all about who Vince wants on to be on top, representing the wwe. he makes the superstars, characters, storylines, decides who get the pushes.

and john has done a great job, better than most anyone else could'a......But it still could been someone else, WWE wouldn't have gone bankrupt had John cena wanted to be a doctor!

 

[Rusty]

hey can but hes no bret hart or jerciho. he can look really good when hes up against some like triple h nd hbk. hes good but not one of the best

Yeah I agree, he's no Bret Hart or Chris Jericho. Because in fact, he's better than both of them combined. If we are talking about wrestling here, instead of an overall superstar, Cena is still better than Y2J and Bret Hart. Does Jericho or Hart get people behind them in a match as good as Cena does? Cena's matches are always entertaining, and whether you like him or you hate him, you want to see him wrestle. It's all about telling a story in the ring, not whether or not you know how to do 100 different types of suplexes.

Also, if Jericho was as great as Cena in the ring, why isn't he in the main event of Wrestlemania 25, and why isn't he is the face of the company?

Cena does the same 4 moves over and over. He is not a good wrestler by any means.

Attitude Adjuster.
STF.
Prototype.
5 Knuckle Shuffle.
Shoulder block.
Fishermans suplex.
Leg drop from the top rope.
Clothesline.

And many, many more.

I didn't know people on a wrestling forum couldn't count properly.

I definitely think there's a difference between CAN Cena wrestle and DOES Cena wrestle. Cena has potential. In fact, back in 2003 or so when Cena was a heel and his position on the roster wasn't a lock he would try his ass off week in and week out. As long as he maintained that cutting edge, heel rapper gimmick he knew he had a chance to be big so every week he'd pull out all the stops in the ring. Yes, most of his good matches were against Angle, Benoit and Guerrero but it wasn't just them making him look good. He pulled his weight.

Because he was a heel, he was sooo much cooler and better wasn't he?

Cena wrestles a LOT now, on top of filming movies. The guy's work ethic and load has increased over the years, not decreased. Remember, just because he doesn't wrestle on Raw every week, doesn't mean he doesn't wrestle for over a whole week. There's house shows, you know.

Then the face turn and the push to the moon happened.

You say it like it's a bad thing. It was the best thing to happen to the business, period.

Since then I haven't see a truly good Cena match. I've seen passable ones. I've seen insanely overrated ones like Cena/Umaga from the Rumble and the hour long Cena/HBK from RAW. I've seen matches that people were really generous about calling Cena/JBL "I Quit" a good garbage match or people saying that Cena pulled a good match out of Khali. I disagree with those assessments.

When will you people learn?

John Cena vs Edge - Unforgiven 2006 (Match of the Year) .
John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 23 (Very good match).
John Cena vs Rob Van Dam - One Night Stand 2006 (Another great match).
John Cena vs Bobby Lashley - Great American Bash 2007 (Terrific bout).
John Cena vs Umaga - Royal Rumble 2007 (A very creative and interesting match).
John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - Raw April 2007 (A great 60 minute match).
John Cena vs Batista - SummerSlam 2008 (A terrific match by any means).
John Cena vs Triple H - Night of Champions 2008 (Another great match with a big feel to it).
John Cena vs Edge - SummerSlam 2006 (A very underrated match here).

And many more. I could go on for days if you really want me to.

It seems to me that Cena is really comfortable with his position she he doesn't feel the need to try. We all know what's going to happen. Crappy should block, Protoplex, 5 Knuckle Shuffle, STF attempt, maybe throw in that horrible looking top rop legdrop that is eventually going to get Cena's leg broken and finally the... sigh... Attitude Adjuster.

Have you heard of signature moves? Yeah, EVERY WRESTLER HAS THEM! Even your darling, Edge and Jericho have them. Since when has a good wrestler ever been determined based on the number of moves he performs? Jamie Noble apparently knows a shitload of moves, and is he in the main event scene?

No, I don't think Cena is a horrible wrestler at all. The thing that disappoints me is that I've seen flashes of greatness in him before. I've seen potential. I just don't see motivation. That's what annoys me. At least with guys like Kozlov and Khali no one goes into the match expecting it to be good. They don't have talent. But Cena does and he's hasn't chosen to utilize it to any great degree in 5-6 years.

Wait a minute, you're saying John Cena doesn't have motivation!? That is by far the most ridiculous thing I've heard all year. He fucking loves the business. He loves performing. He loves wrestling, it's his life. He came back from a serious injury much earlier than expected (Over 4 whole months earlier), because he hated being on the sidelines. And if Cena hasn't been able to utilize his talents properly, how come he is the top dog in the company? How come people give him a huge reaction every single week on Raw. How come he's able to put on great matches all the time?

Two of Cena's title reigns have lasted about one year each. Because of that he's the WWE's golden boy and because of THAT the man just doesn't put forward any effort. A heel turn and a year straight of not even being close to the WWE/World title picture would do wonders for that guy.

Did I miss the second year long reign? His first reign lasted about 8 months. You're only about 4 months short

So hang on, because he put on great matches and was capable of holding the WWE Title for a year, it makes him the WWE's golden boy? Obviously those reigns must have been good for him to be the top dog. Saying Cena doesn't put forward any effort is just silly, and unless you explain that to me, you're making yourself look like a fool.

And finally, why do people assume heel turns are the solution to everything in wrestling? Seriously, why should Cena turn heel? If he turns heel, he loses his target audience (and the WWE's target audience for that matter), and he loses a LOT of money for the WWE, since he is the top merchandise seller in the company. And why wouldn't people want to see him near the WWE Title, he is the biggest draw in the company. It's a fucking fact! Edge has won the World Title 8 times in 3 years, yet you bitch about the guy who currently doesn't hold a World Title, and a guy who is the top draw in the company and has only had 4 Title reigns within the past 4 years.

 

[Marquis]

Yeah I agree, he's no Bret Hart or Chris Jericho. Because in fact, he's better than both of them combined.

That's a bit drastic, both of them combined would make one hell of a wrestler.

If we are talking about wrestling here, instead of an overall superstar, Cena is still better than Y2J and Bret Hart.

See i might have agreed with you said "If we are talking about overall wrestling". Cena is in no way the in ring performer Hart was, albeit who you would think is better in ring may be a matter of opinion. I'm sure most would agree Hart was the superior in ring performer.

Does Jericho or Hart get people behind them in a match as good as Cena does?

I hear people chanting for Hart during his matches, so i would assume yes he does.

Cena's matches are always entertaining

Matter of opinion.

and whether you like him or you hate him, you want to see him wrestle.

Well if you hate him, i would assume you would like to see him get his ass handed to him, but wrestling nonetheless.

It's all about telling a story in the ring,

Really? What about Hardy then? The man can't tell a story for his life, yet he is insanely over.

not whether or not you know how to do 100 different types of suplexes.

No, but it helps.

Also, if Jericho was as great as Cena in the ring, why isn't he in the main event of Wrestlemania 25,

"In the ring"? What does that have to do with being in the main event? Is Cena's match the main event? Was that announced? If it wasn't, for all you know Triple H Vs Orton could be the main event. Also Jericho is involved in a pretty important feud for WM.

and why isn't he is the face of the company?

Well hes arguably the top heel of the company currently.

 

[Rusty]

That's a bit drastic, both of them combined would make one hell of a wrestler.

No, both of them combined would have a large moveset. There's a difference.

See i might have agreed with you said "If we are talking about overall wrestling". Cena is in no way the in ring performer Hart was, albeit who you would think is better in ring may be a matter of opinion. I'm sure most would agree Hart was the superior in ring performer.

I ask you this, is Bret Hart compared to Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold and The Rock? Even though he's a fan favourite on this forum, he still never achieved the heights of those 3 mentioned. Hart knew how to do a lot of moves, but as I said, so does Jamie Noble. Cena is a good wrestler because every single fan in the arena wants to see him wrestle and he tells a great story in the ring. No matter if they like him or not.

I hear people chanting for Hart during his matches, so i would assume yes he does.

Yeah, I can hear people chanting for DJ Gabriel too. It doesn't mean he's a good wrestler, nor does it mean the fans care about him. But if they were to choose him or the other guy he's facing, they will obviously cheer the one who the "nicer" guy. Otherwise known as babyface. When John Cena walks into the arena, there's loads of fans jumping up and down BEFORE the match even gets underway. And Cena gets a reaction from the fans that is unmatched by any superstar, currently.

Matter of opinion.

Obviously a lot of people agree with me. Otherwise his matches wouldn't draw.

Well if you hate him, i would assume you would like to see him get his ass handed to him, but wrestling nonetheless.

Exactly.

Really? What about Hardy then? The man can't tell a story for his life, yet he is insanely over.

He's an underdog, one that people care about. He may not be as good as guys like HBK or Triple H, but he can still tell a fairly good story in the ring. He doesn't know 100 different variations of suplexes, which is why the IWC doesn't like him. The same goes for Rey Mysterio.

No, but it helps.

If that's the case, why is John Cena so successful? It doesn't matter at all if a wrestler has a large moveset or not.

"In the ring"? What does that have to do with being in the main event? Is Cena's match the main event? Was that announced? If it wasn't, for all you know Triple H Vs Orton could be the main event. Also Jericho is involved in a pretty important feud for WM.

Well, if Jericho was as great as people say he is, wouldn't the WWE want their top "wrestler" in the main event of Wrestlemania or at least in a main attraction? And John Cena is still in a main event of Wrestlemania. The two world titles matches usually both count as Wrestlemania main events. And Jericho's match seems to be one of the worst on the card. It's not his fault, but his feud just isn't that important compared to the rest of the rivalries.

Well hes arguably the top heel of the company currently.

I'm sorry, but does he get booed as much as Vickie Guerrero? Unless you have a hearing problem, you'd probably say no.

 

[Marquis]

No, both of them combined would have a large moveset. There's a difference.

Both have decent charisma, and mic work. So combined I'm sure they can stack up to your standards.

I ask you this, is Bret Hart compared to Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold and The Rock? Even though he's a fan favourite on this forum, he still never achieved the heights of those 3 mentioned. Hart knew how to do a lot of moves, but as I said, so does Jamie Noble. Cena is a good wrestler because every single fan in the arena wants to see him wrestle and he tells a great story in the ring. No matter if they like him or not.

What does everything you said in this post have to do with what i said? You said Cena is the better "wrestler", not overall star. If people wanna see Cena wrestle, okay that's nice, but that doesn't make him the better wrestler. Does it make him the better overall wrestler/superstar? Sure, but in ring hart was better hands down. The man was a in ring genius, and to be honest he may know how to do "a lot of moves", but he didn't exactly do too many during his matches.

Yeah, I can hear people chanting for DJ Gabriel too. It doesn't mean he's a good wrestler, nor does it mean the fans care about him. But if they were to choose him or the other guy he's facing, they will obviously cheer the one who the "nicer" guy. Otherwise known as babyface. When John Cena walks into the arena, there's loads of fans jumping up and down BEFORE the match even gets underway. And Cena gets a reaction from the fans that is unmatched by any superstar, currently.

We have no way of knowing who would get the bigger pop between Cena or Hart, but they both get huge pops, and chants. fact.

He's an underdog, one that people care about. He may not be as good as guys like HBK or Triple H, but he can still tell a fairly good story in the ring. He doesn't know 100 different variations of suplexes, which is why the IWC doesn't like him. The same goes for Rey Mysterio.

Can i ask you to point out him ever telling a story? Unless you count those rambles about being a fuck up, which usually don't have nothing to do with the matter at hand.

If that's the case, why is John Cena so successful? It doesn't matter at all if a wrestler has a large moveset or not.

Did i say it would make a wrestler successful? No, i said it helps.

Well, if Jericho was as great as people say he is, wouldn't the WWE want their top "wrestler" in the main event of Wrestlemania or at least in a main attraction? And John Cena is still in a main event of Wrestlemania. The two world titles matches usually both count as Wrestlemania main events. And Jericho's match seems to be one of the worst on the card. It's not his fault, but his feud just isn't that important compared to the rest of the rivalries.

I wasn't aware there are two main events, usually its one. Match quality wise? Of course its the worst, hes fighting a bunch of retired legends. The story is what matters, and if you been watching raw, you know hes getting huge amounts of heat for his legend storyline. Meaning people actually care about the storyline.

I'm sorry, but does he get booed as much as Vickie Guerrero? Unless you have a hearing problem, you'd probably say no.

I was implying top heel wrestler, but if we are talking about top heel entity in the company, then it is Vicky.

 

[Kennedy316]

I honestly miss Cena's rap gimmick. Yeah, I wasn't a fan of it at the time, and wasn't really high on the whole "rap album" concept but his promos were quite a bit better than they are now, specifically his promos with Christian. So basically, Cena now, post-Marine movie, not quite what I wish he was. Still sells tickets and merch and in the wrestling business, no matter how much you whine and cry about wrestling skills, making money is what counts and Cena does it. THAT makes him a good sports entertainer. Sure, him and Hulk Hogan have limited move setlists, but let's be honest with it: He at least does his seven moves better than Hulk Hogan did his five.

 

[Shorty]

I voted that 'I liked John Cena'. I put that because I do like him. The man does a great job at what they give him. I know he knows more then 5 moves. If you watch his earlier matches when he first debuted or some old OVW matches, he knows as much as most wrestlers. BUT he's known now for the 5 moves and that is what he and all of us are stuck with for now. Maybe it will change soon, I hope so because I think he's went stale for most people. It's great to be known and popular for it, but its really bad to become stale and boring because of it.

If Cena is ever allowed to change things up again, I will probably become a big fan, again. If not, well, all wrestlers fade eventually don't they?

 

[Jersey Wannabe]

I agree that his character is booked to fight a certain way.

We all know that TJ Wilson/Tyson kidd can wrestle, but all he has shown me on ECW is some kicks and a slingshot elbowdrop.

ITs all in the booking

 

[Rusty]

Both have decent charisma, and mic work. So combined I'm sure they can stack up to your standards.

Who cares? It's not going to happen anyway unless you know of some sort of fusing technique.

What does everything you said in this post have to do with what i said? You said Cena is the better "wrestler", not overall star. If people wanna see Cena wrestle, okay that's nice, but that doesn't make him the better wrestler. Does it make him the better overall wrestler/superstar? Sure, but in ring hart was better hands down. The man was a in ring genius, and to be honest he may know how to do "a lot of moves", but he didn't exactly do too many during his matches.

What is your definition of a good wrestler? One that has the greatest moveset and knows a large number of moves? There's a reason why John Cena has had so many good matches in his rather short career thus far. He is quite possibly the greatest wrestler in the company right now. Because he tells a good story in the ring, meaning he makes the fans feel emotion when they are watching him wrestle. Bret Hart was great, but he cannot be compared to Hogan, Austin and The Rock. Cena is compared to those 3. That's the difference between the two.

We have no way of knowing who would get the bigger pop between Cena or Hart, but they both get huge pops, and chants. fact.

More modern day fans know of John Cena that they do Bret Hart. So chances are, Cena would get the bigger pop.

Can i ask you to point out him ever telling a story? Unless you count those rambles about being a fuck up, which usually don't have nothing to do with the matter at hand.

Being the underdog WWE Champion. Being the underdog and surprising participant in the #1 Contenders match from 2007. Wanting to prove a point to Matt Hardy. He's also insanely over because people actually care about him.

Did i say it would make a wrestler successful? No, i said it helps.

How does it help? Give me an explanation please.

I wasn't aware there are two main events, usually its one. Match quality wise? Of course its the worst, hes fighting a bunch of retired legends. The story is what matters, and if you been watching raw, you know hes getting huge amounts of heat for his legend storyline. Meaning people actually care about the storyline.

Huge amounts of heat, hey? How come I heard people chanting for Jericho a few weeks ago after he beat up Snuka? And usually the two Wrestlemania World Title matches count as main events. Aka main attractions. People don't care about this match in comparison to Undertaker vs HBK, Hardy vs Hardy, Triple H vs Randy Orton and many more.

I was implying top heel wrestler, but if we are talking about top heel entity in the company, then it is Vicky.

... Thank you for making my point look even more credible

 

[Marquis]

Who cares? It's not going to happen anyway unless you know of 8335some sort of fusing technique.

Well you responded to it the first time i quoted it. So i say you do a bit.

What is your definition of a good wrestler? One that has the greatest moveset and knows a large number of moves? There's a reason why John Cena has had so many good matches in his rather short career thus far. He is quite possibly the greatest wrestler in the company right now. Because he tells a good story in the ring, meaning he makes the fans feel emotion when they are watching him wrestle. Bret Hart was great, but he cannot be compared to Hogan, Austin and The Rock. Cena is compared to those 3. That's the difference between the two.

You seem to not understand what i said. You keep telling me how Cena is one of the all time greatest and can tell a story, and that you feel emotion and shit when he wrestles. That's all fine and dandy, but what i have said is Hart is the better in ring performer. Not who's more popular, not who can tell a story, not who can make you feel something in your pants. From a pure wrestling point of view, Hart's matches were better.

More modern day fans know of John Cena that they do Bret Hart. So chances are, Cena would get the bigger pop.

So Cena in his prime would get more cheers then a old retired Bret Hart!? That's fuckin shocking.

Being the underdog WWE Champion. Being the underdog and surprising participant in the #1 Contenders match from 2007. Wanting to prove a point to Matt Hardy. He's also insanely over because people actually care about him.

Explain to me how him being an underdog is telling a story.

How does it help? Give me an explanation please.

There is no downfall to knowing a wide array of moves. I don't see how knowing a wide array of moves can not be positive. You can have a wide moveset thus not boring some and pleasing more types of fans, you can change your moveset easily when switching characters/gimmicks, and it can be played into your character/gimmick.

Huge amounts of heat, hey? How come I heard people chanting for Jericho a few weeks ago after he beat up Snuka? And usually the two Wrestlemania World Title matches count as main events. Aka main attractions. People don't care about this match in comparison to Undertaker vs HBK, Hardy vs Hardy, Triple H vs Randy Orton and many more.

You must be deaf, cause this past monday i heard a you suck or something along those lines chant, and when have i compared his match/story to any of those? I didn't. All i said is people care about the story.

... Thank you for making my point look even more credible

You're welcome?

 

[Rusty]

Well you responded to it the first time i quoted it. So i say you do a bit.

You quoted it first, not me.

You seem to not understand what i said. You keep telling me how Cena is one of the all time greatest and can tell a story, and that you feel emotion and shit when he wrestles. That's all fine and dandy, but what i have said is Hart is the better in ring performer. Not who's more popular, not who can tell a story, not who can make you feel something in your pants. From a pure wrestling point of view, Hart's matches were better.

You're missing my point. Putting a great match has everything to do with drawing emotion from the fans. Therefore, if John Cena draws emotion from the fans during a match better than what Bret Hart can, he is the superior wrestler. You've still yet to give me a reason on why you think Hart's matches are better.

So Cena in his prime would get more cheers then a old retired Bret Hart!? That's fuckin shocking.

You said we would never know who would get the louder pop, and when I give you an answer, you basically agree with me. I'm not understanding your point here, and I don't think you even understand what you're trying to say here.

Explain to me how him being an underdog is telling a story.

Ever heard of David vs Goliath? Yeah, well people think Jeff Hardy won't ever win the WWE Championship in his career. He constantly loses and barely misses out on winning the title. All of a sudden out of nowhere, he wins the title and becomes WWE Champion. When it happened, the crowd popped huge.

Hardy shouldn't be in this conversation, because this thread isn't about him anyway.

There is no downfall to knowing a wide array of moves. I don't see how knowing a wide array of moves can not be positive. You can have a wide moveset thus not boring some and pleasing more types of fans, you can change your moveset easily when switching characters/gimmicks, and it can be played into your character/gimmick.

There is no downfall, but it doesn't benefit you either. Cena has a small moveset, and he's not boring in the ring. Jamie Noble knows a shitload of moves, does this mean he is benefitting from it? Hell, he's basically a jobber in the company. Thus proving knowing a large variety of moves means fuck all when it comes to putting on a great match.

You must be deaf, cause this past monday i heard a you suck or something along those lines chant, and when have i compared his match/story to any of those? I didn't. All i said is people care about the story.

I haven't seen Raw yet. But if you read properly, I said when Jericho attacked Snuka a few weeks ago. I repeat, a few weeks ago.

 

[Marquis]

You're missing my point. Putting a great match has everything to do with drawing emotion from the fans. Therefore, if John Cena draws emotion from the fans during a match better than what Bret Hart can, he is the superior wrestler. You've still yet to give me a reason on why you think Hart's matches are better.

Explain to me drawing emotions from the fans while wrestling. If you mean the crowd gets behind him, or pops when he does a signature move. They did for Hart as well. Let me ask you something. I can list why i find Hart's matches better, but what would that really change? I can list i find his finishes better, i can list i find he performs moves smoothly, i enjoy his counters, etc, but from what i can tell Cena is your favorite wrestler. So i don't know what i could say that would change your mind about who's better in ring. Hes your favorite wrestler so of course you would enjoy watching him wrestle. My whole point of this argument was when you said this

If we are talking about wrestling here, instead of an overall superstar, Cena is still better than Y2J and Bret Hart.

You claimed in terms of wrestling Cena was better then Hart, but how can you back this up? Do you have facts to back this up? You can't just say Cena is the better wrestler, a lot of people like me for example would disagree. Different people like different types of wrestling. Cena's style appeals to you, but just because of that it doesn't mean hes a better wrestler then Hart. I am also guilty of countering your argument with Hart is better. There is no fact to who is better. Hart's style appeals to me, Cena's to you. Some people like nether and prefer flippy flips. I'm sure if a poll was held here between who puts on the better matches, hart would win, but that doesn't mean its a fact. It would mean more people liked his style and enjoyed his matches then Cenas, but that doesn't make it a fact. So explain to me why Cena is the better wrestler and puts on better matches. With facts, not opinions.

You said we would never know who would get the louder pop, and when I give you an answer, you basically agree with me. I'm not understanding your point here, and I don't think you even understand what you're trying to say here.

Exactly why i said we would never know who would get a louder pop between the two. There is no way to compare them in their prime.

Ever heard of David vs Goliath? Yeah, well people think Jeff Hardy won't ever win the WWE Championship in his career. He constantly loses and barely misses out on winning the title. All of a sudden out of nowhere, he wins the title and becomes WWE Champion. When it happened, the crowd popped huge.

Okay, but isn't the whole David underdog thing his character? People got behind him cause he was a underdog. I don't understand how that's telling a story. Perhaps we have different definitions of telling a story.

There is no downfall, but it doesn't benefit you either. Cena has a small moveset, and he's not boring in the ring. Jamie Noble knows a shitload of moves, does this mean he is benefitting from it? Hell, he's basically a jobber in the company. Thus proving knowing a large variety of moves means fuck all when it comes to putting on a great match.

Did you not read my post? I listed 3 ways it can be helpful.

I haven't seen Raw yet. But if you read properly, I said when Jericho attacked Snuka a few weeks ago. I repeat, a few weeks ago.

I did read that you said a few weeks go, and that's why i brought up the last weeks raw when he was getting a you suck chant.

 

[hollowpoint]

What I like about Cena is he is very charasmatic, much like the Rock in his hayday. He was also noted for not being the greatest "wrestler", but one of the best entertainers the business has ever seen. He is both hated and loved by people all around the world and he recognizes it and uses it to his advantage. Although he wont get a gold medal for his "wrestling", his in-ring performance IMO is second to none.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Nobody's discussing our boy Cena winning back the world heavyweight title? Well, I'm guessing they are in the WrestleMania threads, but I'll just kick it off here. Those 'Mania threads are only going to last so long.

I don't want to say this, because I want to fit in perfectly with SlyFox and his new breed of anti-smarks he's created on the forums, but I was bored. I was very, very bored by that match, its ending and the aftermath. Cena winning the belt again a month after he lost it was an anti-climax. He performed the best out of the three in the match, I'll give him that. That wasn't particularly difficult though, was it?

With Big Show as champion, I think things would have been a lot more interesting.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

If Cena hadn't come back from injury and got the WHC at the first time of trying then maybe him win would have been special. And maybe if Edge wasn't losing and winning the belt every PPV maybe the match could've had some more drama. Or maybe if Cena was in an important match then maybe his title win might have been intresting. Alas, not the case.

Cena should lose to Edge at Backlash. Mostly because I want Edge to have a title haul bigger than Triple H & Ric Flair.

 

[OIL]

Agreed slightly.

With the belt being won at lost seemingly every month, the title win wasn't as special in my opinion. If Edge had the belt for a long time, and then Cena won at WM, it would have meant more. Mainly because it's a bigger achievement because Edge would have been able to keep it for so long. But maybe now they'll keep the belt on Cena for a while. Maybe a title switch at SummerSlam?

 

[Y 2 Jake]

I can't think of much else Cena can do with another title reign. Although I'm saying this very early because next week it'll be easier to guess who he'll be facing over the next year or so. I 'm actually thinking another broken neck would be the best thing for him at the moment. But that's just me.

 

[SJM12492]

What does everyone have against John Cena, he is one of the most talented, charasmatic people in the WWE. He knows plenty of moves, just about the same as everyone else because it's HIS moveset. The only reason why people HATE him, is because he is the face of the new TV-PG version of the WWE.

 

[nthomas504]

I agree with SJM12492 to an extent. I love Cena, but i do understand why its so easy to hate him. At least he's not boring in the ring as Trips(which iz my opinion by tha way), or as boring on the mic as Batista. People think Cena suxs basically because he is has become so damn successful in tha industry. Plz tell me, would u hate Cena if he was still a mid-carder, if not, then you shouldnt hate him now. Sure he has his faults as a wrestler, but everyone in the business does. Sure Cena has accompished alot, but its been almost 7 years since he debuted. I kno tha Cena hating will never stop, but just kno that even tho Cena is hated by few, he is loved by many

 

[SJM12492]

Why does everybody hate so much? He is very charasmatic, good wrestler... I can't really think of any reason apart from, mabye the fact that he represents the new TV-PG WWE.

I've heard so many excuses, like|

"He only does a few moves."
He does plenty of moves in my opinion and never does anything cheap and lazy (mabye the 5 Knuckle Shuffle). But that's his trade-mark. If people hated it so much, then why does the crowd always join in with the "You can't see me!"? Besides, he does a lot more moves then someone like Edge who just stomps the opponent then spears him (ooo... complicated).

"He changed the design of the WWE Championship"
Personally, I don't like it either, but it suited Cena. It's not Cena's fault that they kept the design.

After all this, I still don't know why people don't like him. Any ideas?

 

[SJM12492]

I agree with SJM12492 to an extent. I love Cena, but i do understand why its so easy to hate him. At least he's not boring in the ring as Trips(which iz my opinion by tha way), or as boring on the mic as Batista. People think Cena suxs basically because he is has become so damn successful in tha industry. Plz tell me, would u hate Cena if he was still a mid-carder, if not, then you shouldnt hate him now. Sure he has his faults as a wrestler, but everyone in the business does. Sure Cena has accompished alot, but its been almost 7 years since he debuted. I kno tha Cena hating will never stop, but just kno that even tho Cena is hated by few, he is loved by many

Cheers Tom.

 

[AJAnder]

Why does everybody hate so much? He is very charasmatic, good wrestler... I can't really think of any reason apart from, mabye the fact that he represents the new TV-PG WWE.

I've heard so many excuses, like|

"He only does a few moves."
He does plenty of moves in my opinion and never does anything cheap and lazy (mabye the 5 Knuckle Shuffle). But that's his trade-mark. If people hated it so much, then why does the crowd always join in with the "You can't see me!"? Besides, he does a lot more moves then someone like Edge who just stomps the opponent then spears him (ooo... complicated).

"He changed the design of the WWE Championship"
Personally, I don't like it either, but it suited Cena. It's not Cena's fault that they kept the design.

After all this, I still don't know why people don't like him. Any ideas?

I don't hate him but I could probably tell you why people do hate him. He is being pushed to much and is always champion. They need to start giving the belt to other guys. WWE is putting Cena everywhere, there is no problem with him being the face of the new generation but if he is everywhere and always champion the old school fans at least get tired of him quick. Every championship match he has to regain a championship almoat 9 out of 10 times he'll win one the first shot. In the old school days winning the WWE championship never came that easy.

 

[Tripple X]

I'm neither a Cena fan nor do i hate the guy but you have to face it. Looking from a wrestling fans point of view (not just a guy who defends the wrestlers he likes) Cena kind of does do the same moves in a match, not saying that is a bad thing many wrestlers do this eg.( Shawn michaels, Batista, Triple H etc...)
It's just a rhythm that the wrestlers get into and the fans like to see.

So I'm not bagging Cena it's just that he does do the same moves in a match, but in a sequence. You know what I'm saying.
As for the title i liked the spinner when they first brought it in but now it has over stayed it's welcome, the WWE needs a new look for the title or just go back to the original.

BTW i HATE the new pg-13 rating, it's all a load of bullshit if u ask me.​

 

[slimmshady]

I don't hate him but I could probably tell you why people do hate him. He is being pushed to much and is always champion. They need to start giving the belt to other guys. WWE is putting Cena everywhere, there is no problem with him being the face of the new generation but if he is everywhere and always champion the old school fans at least get tired of him quick. Every championship match he has to regain a championship almoat 9 out of 10 times he'll win one the first shot. In the old school days winning the WWE championship never came that easy.

Exactly, the championship belt chase is also becoming too predictable if cena is in the match, you know that 9 out of 10 times cena will eventually go onto win it. This, in my opinion, is degrading the importance of the titles as they once were, and how hard the matches were fought in order to win them. I personally respect him and like him but I don't like how wwe keep pushing him for the titles all the time. An example of this is the recent fued between cena, edge and show. As soon as cena lost the title against edge in the elimination chamber I knew where they were going with the story and eventually cena would retain the belt (as we know thats what happened). The same way in which at last years royal rumble cena made his return from injury and a few feuds later, he won the WHC. It's as if everytime cena is fit, he should be the guy to hold one of "major" belts. Another reason why people hate him is because he isn't as entertaining as he was during his Dr of Thuganomics gimmick that he once had (however kids seem to love him). In my eyes he's just become an ordinary wrestler, first the change of gimmick (which is understandable as it keeps everything fresh, but he has kept it for too long), secondly the change in his signature move names (i.e. FU to attitude ajuster or whatever it is called now, STFU to STF (which really isn't a huge change but nevertheless). The rapper gimmick made him unique, just as the mask once made kane unique. When you take away these small things, it can transform a wrestlers career, as it did for kane (but he's an exception because of his age) and now its gradually happening to cena.