Hyorinmaru
Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
IF no one outside Japan gave a fuck about NJPW why would I be arguing?
I live in Florida
The Greatest Post in the WZ Tournament
- Thread starter Slyfox696
- Start date
I live in Florida
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Do that because I would find it quite interesting.
The geographical size is an issue though. Japan being smaller means that more cities see the shows more often, which takes away from the experience of it. I went to Raw last week, knowing the show would suck. The only reason I went was it was the first Raw in Kentucky in 6 years. It has to play some kind of a role.
The geographical size is an issue though. Japan being smaller means that more cities see the shows more often, which takes away from the experience of it. I went to Raw last week, knowing the show would suck. The only reason I went was it was the first Raw in Kentucky in 6 years. It has to play some kind of a role.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Yep, and you could probably fit all of the fans that care about Japanese wrestling that are Americans into your house.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Geezo, way to be a moron and take something extremely literally....
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
It is true that they do hit up a lot of the same locations, but they can still get good and different audiences. Everything is much more streamlined in Japan in terms of transportation. Think about it...almost half of America's population, in a country that's about the size of California, as you say?
Hyorinmaru
Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
Dude Liger is no stranger to weapons.
Hyorinmaru
Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
It's what I do
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Neither is Rey Mysterio. that doesn't mean they'll have an effect on him.
It's...Baylariat!
Team Finnley Baylor
What KB said...
Also, I posted in the WZ thread about the match. But in short, Lesnar's a solid athlete who is also a skilled MMA fighter. And Lesnar's seen Liger's style in Japan, so Lesnar will be prepared for it.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
I think Japan is slightly under half but it's close to it. Close enough that you could say half and get away with it.
That's true, but it can also be a problem. Eventually, the crowds will run out. Granted that's a long eventually, but given that and the large amount of wrestling companies, it's going to become an issue.
Just to make this clear though: I'm not saying that they're not successful over there. They certainly are and it very well may be fair to say they're the second biggest company in the world, but it's like being the second biggest pro football league. You are the second biggest, but you're never going to reach #1.
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
I hear you, and I would never argue that NJPW could ever make as much money as WWE. I think we all know that WWE makes an insane amount of money. However, I think we lose sight of the fact sometimes that companies can make less than half of what they make and still be a thriving enterprise. You could do something a lot smaller in scale and still make a handsome profit.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Sure they're thriving and successful, I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that I wouldn't classify them as major league as I would WWE.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
We just had a difference of opinion on what constitutes the major leagues.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
See, this is why I like tdigle. I don't agree with him often but I've yet to see him get unprofessional.
Baseball is huge in Japan, but it has nothing on the M.L.B.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
And it's nowhere near as big as MLB.
It's...Baylariat!
Team Finnley Baylor
That's why the bigger stars like Ichiro, Hideki Matsui, and Kosuke Fukudome are in America and not Japan, because it's BIGGER!
I laughed at that too...
I'm leaning towards voting Liger, because I've always viewed Lesnar as mediocre. I haven't seen anything overly impressive from him. I can still be swayed though...
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
I find high irony in the fact that IC25 is one of the people spewing all this Liger sillyness, when the basis he is using is in direct contrast to his arguments for Ludvig Borga going over Chris Benoit earlier in the tournament.
Its almost the exact same situation. Except, y'know, Brock Lesnar actually did something.
Its almost the exact same situation. Except, y'know, Brock Lesnar actually did something.
Shadowmancer
I am The Last Baron
point out that the match is a standard match so no weapons
no because we're dumb enough to cough up sixty million dollars just to talk to someone...... Money talks, and in that situation it talks a lot...
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
point out that Shocky pointed out that standard match in the ECW Region is hardcore, no DQ..so yea, weapons
This thread is awesome. I love the arguments for Lesnar:
1) Japan is a smaller country than America, so Lesnar must be better.
2) Lesnar wrestled amateur and is successful outside of wrestling.
3) Lesnar doesn't get beaten by smaller guys.
Here's my question...
If Lesnar doesn't get beaten by smaller guys, the how did he lose the IWGP title to Kurt Angle, weighing in at a whopping 215? If Angle can beat Lesnar, then so can Liger. Liger is a far superior worker to Kurt Angle.
1) Japan is a smaller country than America, so Lesnar must be better.
2) Lesnar wrestled amateur and is successful outside of wrestling.
3) Lesnar doesn't get beaten by smaller guys.
Here's my question...
If Lesnar doesn't get beaten by smaller guys, the how did he lose the IWGP title to Kurt Angle, weighing in at a whopping 215? If Angle can beat Lesnar, then so can Liger. Liger is a far superior worker to Kurt Angle.
While it's largely irrelevant to the topic I would like to chime in on the language/cultural barrier that Japanese wrestling has, or on the opposite side of the coin the Westernization of the globe and our (USAs)seeming rejection of all things non American. Basically, and as it has been echoed on this very site, many people watch Pro Wrestling solely for the storylines rather than the actual in ring wrestling product, so it would follow that as you can't understand Japanese, -further still, even if you could, Japan doesn't book their product like a poorly thought out and acted day time soap opera- the entire storyline aspect is removed and thus some people's ability to enjoy the product gets removed as well. Were Japanese wrestling to be in perfect American accent English I'm sure it would have a larger following not just here in the States but globally as English is a commonly understood language. Notice I said larger. I still won't say it would equal the audience or revenue of WWE. I'll be the first to admit NJPW AJPW and the like don't make as much money as WWE, but to use that and say they don't produce high quality shows, make a profit, or train talented performers is nonsense. By the by Jushin Liger, in addition to the NJPW dojo, trained in Mexico, England and Stu Hart's dungeon in Canada before taking up the Liger character.
Before WWE ran a monopoly on the business and Vince rewrote wrestling history to how he saw fit, going and working/training in Japan was a huge part of "making it" in the business, as was going to Canada, Europe and Mexico. It was making your mark globally, promoting the sport -and you as a brand- world wide, making money, and gaining the experience neccessary to succeed in the American "big leagues".
Hazard to guess why the new guys pumped out of FCW these days are the drizzling shits when they hit WWE TV? It because they are all greener than grass, can't think more than one move ahead, and have no concept of ring psychology. Perhaps if they honed their craft in different markets both here and abroad and learned how the business works not just in the "big league" but in general they'd have the understanding of how to sell tickets by working a match, working a crowd, and maybe even working a mic.
Look, the point is, to say that Japan or the wrestlers they produce are some how the minor leagues is rather uninformed, and somewhat jingoistic. The real basics of the argument have a lot to do with stereo typing Asian cultures, Asian people, -Asian men specifically-, and non English speakers as well. As I said while these matters are largely irrelevant to the topic of who votes for who in a wrestling tourney, it has to be address in some capacity, as it seems at least to a small degree, to be the basis for people's opinions, beliefs, and arguments in said tourney.
Before WWE ran a monopoly on the business and Vince rewrote wrestling history to how he saw fit, going and working/training in Japan was a huge part of "making it" in the business, as was going to Canada, Europe and Mexico. It was making your mark globally, promoting the sport -and you as a brand- world wide, making money, and gaining the experience neccessary to succeed in the American "big leagues".
Hazard to guess why the new guys pumped out of FCW these days are the drizzling shits when they hit WWE TV? It because they are all greener than grass, can't think more than one move ahead, and have no concept of ring psychology. Perhaps if they honed their craft in different markets both here and abroad and learned how the business works not just in the "big league" but in general they'd have the understanding of how to sell tickets by working a match, working a crowd, and maybe even working a mic.
Look, the point is, to say that Japan or the wrestlers they produce are some how the minor leagues is rather uninformed, and somewhat jingoistic. The real basics of the argument have a lot to do with stereo typing Asian cultures, Asian people, -Asian men specifically-, and non English speakers as well. As I said while these matters are largely irrelevant to the topic of who votes for who in a wrestling tourney, it has to be address in some capacity, as it seems at least to a small degree, to be the basis for people's opinions, beliefs, and arguments in said tourney.
