Oh of all the posts, I like this one the most. You enjoy this, dont you?
What gave it away?
1. When WWE brought in the nWo it was a good thing for them. See I get the fact that everyone wanted a rush of all the big names in 2001 for The InVasion Angle, but the fact is it worked better as it went. You had an angle that everyone knew was a work anyhow, why didnt it work?
The InVasion or the WWEnWo?
The InVasion didn't work because McMahon made it all about the McMahon's. Period.
The WWEnWo didn't work because it was the nWo. By that point, and even before WCW went under, the nWo didn't mean anything anymore. You see, the original had a purpose and a goal. They wanted to take over the company on the basis of a faux-invasion. Once the marks were wise to it not being a real invasion, everything fell apart. There was no longer any substance to it, just a logo and a theme and a history of it being a vehicle for heels with no wheel to steer it with. Period.
The fact that you had Hogan Nash and Hall, Steiner, Goldberg, etc all not signed at that time, was great, Bischoff too. They were more feul for WWE to add to the fire of their programming at a later time and it worked where it needed to.
Or, you know, they could've got Goldberg when it mattered (the InVasion) and maybe make some real money instead of wasting him like they did (and yes, they did waste Goldberg).
Bischoff's handshake and hug segment with and after an introduction by Vince was well done, despite what you think, it was great. Just as Hogan coming back in 2002 when he could still go well, was great.
You aren't really making any points in your favor here, just stating what you like. Which is, like, cool and all, except that you said "despite what you think" (referring to me, obviously). So, disregarding my opinion is fine and dandy, but I'm not allowed to dismiss your markdom? Especially when I'm coming in with facts that you can't even get right in the thread title? Sorry, you lose this one.
People are stupid for thinking returns are always a bad idea. Fans were popping for the nWo and loved The Rock vs Hogan build and match as well as everything the nWo did leading into that all the way up to HBK joining when it was he, Nash, Show and Booker T.
Oddly enough, didn't the ratings free fall start around the time of the InVasion and then the nWo crap angles? Go check the numbers. It's ok, I'll wait...
...see? Alright then. Despite what YOU think, crowd pops are not a be all end all measure for whether something is working or not.
Also, who said anything about all returns are bad ideas?
The fucking angle made sense and makes people look stupid when they say otherwise. Vince said the words "I'M GONNA KILL IT!! ...WHAT I CREATED!!" before he finished off his statement turning his black chair around to show nWo spray-painted in white.
Tsk, tsk, getting a little hot under the collar are we? You don't have to repeat what happened in the angle, I saw it too. Just repeating the promo doesn't prove that it makes sense (which, again, I said nothing about) or that it was a success (which I did mention something about).
If you all claim the nWo was so bad, and since it was a factor that killed WCW, it makes sense from a storyline perspective for Vince to have brought them in and the three man original incarnation wasnt overplayed, yet played out as long as it needed to before the new one was made and then that eventually ceased. Nothing wrong with that, it didnt kill business, it made more business and merch to sell and ppl loved that these guys were back where they hadnt been in a long time.
First of all, clearly you have thought about this for way too long that you are beginning to make sense out of nothing. Second of all, I never said anything about the WWEnWo angle not making sense, simply that it sucked and was quickly swept under the rug. Finally, you still aren't really making any argument here to counter my own. You are simply stating opinion (which is fine, but isn't really doing anything) and claiming that your opinion alone should be taken as concrete and irrefutable fact.
The few on the internet dont make up the many and even half of the IWC arent stuck on the same bullshit brand of iCrack that everyone in the IWC seems to be smoking.
Aw, that same old tired and played out last trick; blame the IWC. Yes, it's the IWC. It's
always the IWC. There, there, don't you cry your little eyes out over it.
Wait, did you actually make any points here with your first bullet? No? Oh dear, this is gonna take me a while, isn't it?
2. As for the number of times, I'm not counting anything outside America, I'm talking about THE nWo, not bWo mimicry or any other kind or the different incarnations in WCW, WCW's nWo was one nWo, there were different kinds, okay, but the basic nWo angle ran and had some forks in the road. The redo was in WWE and then in TNA was their attempt to BRING IT BACK dumbass not split it off into another sect. Thus this would be the third time it was brought back, the original PLANNED three as well, back in black and white.
Wrong. The WCW nWo angle actually had a break before it's revival as nWo 2000, so there's one hole in your logic. Secondly, you were the one to bring up and count TNA's cheap knock off before me, so there's that. Thirdly, nWo Japan was at one point sanctioned by WCW I believe, so like it or not it counts. Even taking out the few I haven't covered here, you're still wrong.
Smell that? That's what being proven wrong by fact feels like. Maybe you should try being right sometime.
3. The point about Nash using his real name is he was brought back as Diesel, well him using his real name is the first time in a long time in WWE, and they just up and did it out of nowhere since his Rumble return, I'm only tying this to The Reality Era, it just makes it better that he's using his real name not Diesel.
When Nash last appeared in the WWE before his appearance at the Rumble, he was doing so as Kevin Nash. You have and make no point with this. Whoopidy doo, he was Diesel for all of a few minutes back in January, and now he's Nash again, the name he's gone by for the majority of the latter years of his career. And please, if you want to talk about people doing things that make them look stupid, let's add feeling the need to label everything as an "era" right at the top. "The Reality Era"? Lulz. You really do have too much time on your hands.
4. Do I really have to explain Sting being an outsider? Again they could have him be revealed as The Anonymous Raw GM, after all, this whole thing stopped since Nash came in. Sting is the greatest wrestler to never wrestle in WWE, he could play up on why he never came in, and maybe WWE could just play the nWo card on Bischoff. Not because they need it, but just because they can. Everything doesnt need a payoff to the likes you want, this has its own payoffs, but at the same time, would just be funny to see Vince do this and throwing it in Bischoff's face. Him actually making it BOMB on purpose would be even funnier to watch. It's a subtle slap in the face.
Soooo....no, you still aren't making any points. The "outsider" angle worked for the first nWo angle because most fans didn't know any better and really thought there was some sort of invasion going on. That simply won't work at all in this day and age (for fuck's sake, it's didn't work a few years after that anyway). So you're use of the term "outsider" is simplistic and weak. And really, you think McMahon should script a shitty angle just to stick it to Bischoff? Again, you really think McMahon should shift focus from building new stars and cementing existing ones to focus on washed up has been's who can't even pass simple physicals just to rib Bischoff? That's it; you are absolutely 100% fucking ******ed. Hell, why doesn't McDonald's start selling a hamburger made out of cat shit and call it the "Whooper", just to fuck with Burger King?
5. Some ppl got this thread, like with other things you didnt get... who said Hall had to wrestle? The guy could come back in a meaningful way. You cant just shit all over him as if he cant do anything.
Actually, I can. He can muster up a decent promo once in awhile, period. And really, if you want to watch drama without that pesky wrestling stuff, go watch some soap operas. The name of the game is selling PPV's, and no one's going to buy a PPV just because Scott Hall might cattle prod someone or cut a shitty promo. You are either a total mark for the past or you are just flat out bad at fantasy booking. Explain to me how you think this will make money.
6. With this one you really showed how stupid you are. No I'm not talking about TNA, I was quoting Bischoff from a DVD where he talks on the events of The Monday Night Wars, then, yes, he said he wanted WCW to be real, he was going to do things real, while they were more cartoonish. Now recently, yes, Hogan said he wants TNA to get real, but no, WCW was what I was referring to and WWE is in The Reality Era, it doesnt apply to TNA really. TNA doesnt even know what era its in.
So then why did you bring it up as reason for Vince McMahon to care about anything Bischoff or TNA is doing now? You were the one to go there. Not my fault that, like everything else you are posting, that you have no leg to stand on.
7. Again, you shouldve known better. Sting saying he wont come back doesnt mean anything. I feel like I did in all those posts over the past 7 years explaining to ppl how The Rock didnt leave WWE forever, how he would wrestle again, how it was a set up thing from the first Cena comment, how Vince is smart and knows money when he sees it and needs to hold things off for the right moment when he needs those money matches for later Manias and such. Sting applies to the "Never Say Never" rule.
Yes, McMahon is SOOO good at holding off the pay day.
That's why Punk was only gone two weeks instead of two months.
Any fan who really thinks Sting signing is not a possibility is lying to themselves and a complete idiot. I mean Never Say Never has been proven in big ways in more than one way throughout the past decade. Bischoff signing with WWE, Bret coming back, Sable came back, Savage was about to come back, I always had a feeling, but was evident, WWE was gearing up for it, putting him in All-Stars and making action figures and he was on that promotional video, it was about to blow up and you could see a Vince/Savage Mania match in the works, but unfortunately, he died. You dont have to believe that, but I didnt need the hints to tell me it was coming.
Um....wow. I'm not going to touch this with a 19 foot stick. You are one sad lonely little mark.
8. You critique me trying to make sense of a storyline proposal, yet I'm crazy and you'd criticise an unthought through storyline in a minute, well you dont make money like Vince does and he has stories with finishes and with some kind of endgame pre-thought out. It's not being a fanboy it's fucking logic to bring something to the table that works and show how. It could be a better shocker than most obvious Raw GM choices. And that is shocking, as much as you all think he wont come to WWE, the ratings would peak.
Care to try that all again in English? You know what else would be a shocker? Ted Turner being the GM. BOOM.
Really though, I criticize you for having shallow outdated ideas for the storyline. It's not that it's the nWo; it's that you are stuck in the same booking mindset that sank companies in the past. "Let's shock 'em! What'll make them really surprised!? ARRR, MUST HAVE SHOCK VALUE, THE RATINGS WILL SPIKE!!!!". Guess what, chump? It's not about ratings, and hasn't been for a long long time. It's about PPV buys. It's about merch. And both of those things will make more money in the long run if the company is focused on stars who will be there for a long time, not by focusing on washed up losers from the past who will be there for months at best. How long before Nash tears a quad again? He looked like he could barely climb the ring steps on Monday night, let alone carry an angle.
And no one said have it overshadow Rock, it wont anyhow, but you can do multiple big stories leading into WrestleMania.
You really are bad at this booking thing.
9. Your opinion doesnt count for the world, yet it's the typical way most ignorant IWC guys think. You know, you cant shit on the nWo angle and not praise it at all. It was just as good as it was eventually bad, it was more good than bad though, it ultimately was the shot that caused WWE to have to fire back with Attitude and we the fans got treated, stop being a dumbass, and acting as if that wasnt the best time to be a wrestling fan when competition brought out the best in both companies.
Stop being a dipshit and trying to force me into saying good things about something when I don't believe them. The nWo wasn't all that good. In fact, from the first night of Hall's "You want a war" speech to the end of WCW, it was more shit than it was anything good. For fuck's sake, even the original run grew bloated and directionless before the Wolfpac split. Face the music, son, the past isn't a perfect as you remember it. Of course, it's much easier for you to blame the IWC-boogeymen. Fact of the matter is this: any group which featured Konnan as a member sucked balls.
10. Once again you try to speak on behalf of everyone's opinions with the icepick comment, you know ppl happen to love seeing old stuff again, and the generation today can see what they missed. Anytime someone or something great comes back it's good. nWo only show, you brought that up and that is stupid, wtf? I know what you're trying to refer to, but the way you brought it up makes it sound stupid and defeats the purpose of my proposal to bring it back. The only reason I even want the nWo back is using Sting would be a great move for WWE on a personal level.
Again, you are losing your grasp on the English language here. That is, of course, assuming you ever had one. Furthermore, I love that your reasoning for wanting the nWo (a WWE property) to come back is that it will somehow bring Sting (a TNA contracted individual) in. Nevermind things like no-compete clauses, you've got this one ALL figured out.
Also you cant build the stars of tomorrow without the stars of today. Stop whining about older stars taking up spotlight, it's inaccurate, you need guys to put younger ones over. It doesnt even have to be via a match all the time.
No, you don't. And Nash, Hall, Waltman, and even Sting hardly count as the stars of today. The stars of today are Cena, Orton, and loosely Mysterio. The next generation are Punk and Miz. And, I'm sorry, I thought we were watching wrestling. Nash was very big about this same attitude you have right now. He also felt that you NEED the old guys to work right. That's how he booked WCW into oblivion (which is fact and is well documented if you'd like to challenge that).
11. Who said WWE was worried about TNA? I said it would be nice for them to stick it to Bischoff specifically in his face on a personal level and show him via their programming that they made the idea WCW didnt go along with work, what's so wrong with that? I'd like to see the What If of had Sting been the third man, glad Hogan was, but still. What Ifs are a hot topic in wrestling threads and discussion a lot anyhow.
What is with you and this "sticking it to Bischoff" thing? NOBODY CARES, least of all McMahon. Also, for the last time WWE ALREADY TRIED MAKING THE nWo WORK FOR THEM BEFORE AND IT DIDN'T WORK! How fucking dumb can you be?
12. And lastly, Sting wont take the focus off Punk, Miz or anyone else, it'll do nothing but boost ratings bringing stars of the future more attention and fans to hold onto and keep them interested in the show for years to come. It's not an uncommon thing in this business for older guys to put over younger guys or to use older guys' returns as a way to draw viewers.
Why are you acting as if its a sour move when it only benefits the stars you cry out for for no reason? It's stupid. Cena beating Rock will be bigger than any win he's ever had, and the match that will really solidify Cena as an icon.
Cena, as over as he is, needs The Rock. He really does, he never had that real passing of the torch, HHH and Shawn were nice bouts, but you can feel it when those special moments happen, this is it, WrestleMania 28.
And okay, it's a backtrack on your part from it being fantasy based that Sting will come to WWE after wrestlers have always said the opposite of what they end up doing and wouldnt be dumb enough to say where they are debuting or returning in cases like this, but atleast you saved yourself there, the never say never rule.
Rocky returns, talks smack to Cena, and all of a sudden those IWC boogeymen you cry about were all up in their panties about how Rock just owned Cena and how stars of today just can't hold a candle to him (never mind how played out Rock sounds in 2011, that's not the point). You seem to think that stars need to go over stars of the past to work, and you're wrong. Stone Cold didn't need to go over some old star from forever ago when he got over; the difference between him and Bret Hart was nowhere near the difference between someone like Miz and someone like Sting. Rock didn't need to go over anyone like that; Rock got over at his peak by going against a heel just as new as he was: HHH. You see, you can talk all you want about how much sense you think you are making, while I'm here stating facts and making argument based in logic, not fantasy.
Yes, this is a board where opinions can be discussed. But it is also a place for debates. While you are free to have opinions, I am likewise free to tell you that you are wrong and that your ideas are childish at best. You can either refute my claims with fact or you can stick your fingers in your ears and repeat yourself over and over and over again. Take your pick.
Actually a degree from a respected business school does mean quite a bit. It's not like I got it from Phoenix University. I'm getting it from a well respected University, it has the largest undergrad business program in the state and one of the largest in the midwest. COBA (College of Business Administration) has recieved the highest level of accredation available and all the programs are fully accredited by the Association to Advance Collegiate Business Schools. So basically yea, my degree (when I get it in December 2012) will mean something because the classes are held to a higher standard. Not only that but even though I haven't even graduated yet, I already have almost a year of managerial experience. I'm pretty sure I'm somewhat justified in saying I at least have a decent knowledge of what I'm talking about.
Wow, you really are a douche bag.
