Scott Hall should've been in the nWo Wolfpac in 1998 rather than nWo Hollywood

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

@The Eternal Champion

I even suggested that Hogan should've taken Chris Jericho, Meng, Barbarian, Hugh Morrus, Jimmy Hart, Chavo Guerrero, Disco Inferno, Alex Wright, British Bulldog and Jim Neidhart in addition to Bret Hart, The Giant, Brian Adams, Scott Norton, Eric Bischoff, Horace Hogan, Brutus Beefcake and Stevie Ray plus Mike Jones (Vincent) rather than stealing Scott Hall, Scott Steiner, Buff Bagwell, Curt Hennig, Rick Rude and Miss Elizabeth away from Kevin Nash and the nWo Wolfpac.

At least Wolfpac would've been even with the Black And White contingent. I think Rick Steiner, Booker T, Scott Hall, Curt Hennig, Rick Rude, Miss Elizabeth, Scott Steiner, Buff Bagwell, Eddie Guerrero, Diamond Dallas Page, Konnan, Lex Luger, Sting, Randy Savage and Kevin Nash would've made the best Wolfpac lineup without being too shorthanded.

 

[Chris1-16]

@The Eternal Champion

I even suggested that Hogan should've taken Chris Jericho, Meng, Barbarian, Hugh Morrus, Jimmy Hart, Chavo Guerrero, Disco Inferno, Alex Wright, British Bulldog and Jim Neidhart in addition to Bret Hart, The Giant, Brian Adams, Scott Norton, Eric Bischoff, Horace Hogan, Brutus Beefcake and Stevie Ray plus Mike Jones (Vincent) rather than stealing Scott Hall, Scott Steiner, Buff Bagwell, Curt Hennig, Rick Rude and Miss Elizabeth away from Kevin Nash and the nWo Wolfpac.

At least Wolfpac would've been even with the Black And White contingent. I think Rick Steiner, Booker T, Scott Hall, Curt Hennig, Rick Rude, Miss Elizabeth, Scott Steiner, Buff Bagwell, Eddie Guerrero, Diamond Dallas Page, Konnan, Lex Luger, Sting, Randy Savage and Kevin Nash would've made the best Wolfpac lineup without being too shorthanded.

And where does this leave World Championship Wrestling?

The NWO was pointless after 97 regardless, the moment Sting got back in the ring there was nowhere for that storyline to go but down.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

@Chris1-16

World Championship Wrestling will always have Goldberg, Rey Mysterio, Billy Kidman, Perry Saturn, Roddy Piper, Ultimate Warrior, Jim Duggan, Van Hammer, Brad Armstrong, JJ Dillon, Ric Flair, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Arn Anderson, Steve "Mongo" McMichael, Ray Traylor, Tony Schiavone, Bobby Heenan, Mike Tenay, Lee Marshall, Ted Turner and Norman Smiley.

Don't worry, the focus for Team WCW will be built around Goldberg, Flair, Piper, Mysterio and Warrior as the leaders.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

I mean, Goldberg and Flair will be the leaders because Mysterio was below the Team WCW pecking order. Piper was a part-timer and Warrior lasted for a cup of coffee.

 

[Chris1-16]

I mean, Goldberg and Flair will be the leaders because Mysterio was below the Team WCW pecking order. Piper was a part-timer and Warrior lasted for a cup of coffee.

Uhhh, no.

First of all Flair wasn't there for most of 98, him and Bischoff were suing each other. WCW was able to utilize their stars properly in 97 was with all of the WCW top stars being allies against the NWO (w/Hogan, Savage, and the Outsiders as the top stars of that group) and it was easier to tell who was on what side. The Red and Black NWO had very little difference compared to the WCW side and the Black and White was no longer focused on attacking WCW, there was no direction, it peaked with Hogan vs. Sting and everything afterwards was sloppy seconds.

 

[Chris1-16]

@The Eternal Champion

Uhhh, no.

First of all Flair wasn't there for most of 98, him and Bischoff were suing each other. WCW was able to utilize their stars properly in 97 with all of the WCW top stars being allies against the NWO (w/Hogan, Savage, and the Outsiders as the top stars of that group) and it was easier to tell who was on what side. The Red and Black NWO had very little difference compared to the WCW side and the Black and White was no longer focused on attacking WCW, there was no direction, it peaked with Hogan vs. Sting and everything afterwards was sloppy seconds.

 

[Makaveli31]

And for Rick Steiner, DDP, Booker T, Curt Hennig and Rick Rude, how do those five each fit the Wolfpac motif?
sendpm.gif

I could see Rick Steiner fitting in the Wolfpac especially if Scott was in the black and white. It would only make sense that his brother join up with the 'Pac. He would give the Wolfpac a main event-caliber tag team wrestler and a singles who could give the 'Pac a presence on shows like Thunder and Sat. Night. I don't think he could feud one on one with his brother but I could definitely see him tag teaming with Nash, Sting, or Konnan. As the dog-faced gremlin his personality fit in the Wolfpac.

DDP/Booker T - I always viewed those guys as solid WCW guys. They each had their own unique style and I can't see them meshing with the red and black. DDP was over as a solid traditional face, a guy who went against the grain and took no short cuts. I liked the fact that he was the one guy the NWO wanted but never joined. Booker T was just coming into his own as a singles. He was one the guys WCW looked too as a potential franchise player in the future. If he had went with Nash he would have been overshadowed.

Hennig/Rude- Solid traditional heels. They never fit in with the popular Wolfpac. Hennig was great as an arrogant prick heel while Rude was just mean and intimidating. They were great together but as heels on the black and white.

 

[Makaveli31]

I agree that the NWO Wolfpac was sabotaged from the start. The Wolfpac were THE hottest thing at the start of 1998. They couldn't print those black and red fast enough. Everyone wanted the theme music. Fans were anticipating who was going to jump next. I remember when Sting tore off the black and white and revealed the black and red, you could feel like this angle was going to be big......then POOF nothing. I don't recall Sting or Luger having any meaningful feud as Wolfpac members. It was mostly Nash and Konnan trading insults with Hogan in promos. No tag team matches, no War Games matches. The Wolfpac had lost all steam by the fall of 1998.

Then to top it all off, they have the guy they had been building all summer GOLDBERG job to NASH at the biggest PPV of the year!! So they effectively killed off the two biggest things they had going for them in 1998 in one, foul swoop!!

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

@Makaveli31

Goldberg jobbing to Kevin Nash via recent ousted nWo Hollywood member Scott Hall (since 1998 World War 3 PPV) doing outside interference with the stun gun taser imo absolutely made sense. Plus, nobody complained about the taser ending that much, because Goldberg needed to lose the streak and the belt to Nash because...

...over in the WWF: Austin, Rock, Undertaker and Triple H were their key full-time wrestlers, while Nash was far more over than Goldberg, Sting and Luger as the top face Ted Turner had to offer. In case you haven't noticed, the Goldberg cheer chants were actually piped in and served to be audible boos. Tony Schiavone ignored the boos directed at Goldberg because he can't talk or have a great match. There's a good reason why Hogan handed over the WCW World Heavyweight Championship Belt to Goldberg on a throwaway Nitro main event match, because Goldberg would eventually implode with the WCW WHC Belt and it made sense for him to lose to Nash at Starrcade '98. If Bill had better trainers down at the WCW Power Plant developmental system, he would've been much better and well more received without being thrust into the spotlight too quick a la Ultimate Warrior.

Starrcade '98 was the PPV that Lex Luger was sidelined for, due to a legit torn biceps tendon. A better way to write Luger out of action rather than holding it off until Wolfpac and Hollywood merged back to one nWo, this time under the Wolfpac banner as heels. WCW had Luger written off via Rey Mysterio slamming the car door on his injured arm/biceps area.

It would've been more better if Luger was kayfabe injured as a face, most likely at the hands of Scott Steiner doing the attacking, while Buff Bagwell plays the psuedo manager and mocks Luger's misfortune. But then: Randy Savage (Torn ACL) and Sting (Drug Rehab) were already sidelined, so Luger being the next Wolfpac face to hit the sidelines via injury would've meant it's down to Kevin Nash and Konnan and after whoever orchestrated Scott Hall being eventually kicked out of nWo Hollywood at the 1998 WW3 PPV was likely Scott Steiner, so Hall was out of the B&W and on his own, so there was a fair chance Hall could've replaced Luger, Sting and Savage because Hennig was still a B&W member and Rude was out due to a supposed testicular cancer bout since September 1998.

 

[Chris1-16]

@Makaveli31

Goldberg jobbing to Kevin Nash via recent ousted nWo Hollywood member Scott Hall (since 1998 World War 3 PPV) doing outside interference with the stun gun taser imo absolutely made sense. Plus, nobody complained about the taser ending that much, because Goldberg needed to lose the streak and the belt to Nash because...

...over in the WWF: Austin, Rock, Undertaker and Triple H were their key full-time wrestlers, while Nash was far more over than Goldberg, Sting and Luger as the top face Ted Turner had to offer. In case you haven't noticed, the Goldberg cheer chants were actually piped in and served to be audible boos. Tony Schiavone ignored the boos directed at Goldberg because he can't talk or have a great match. There's a good reason why Hogan handed over the WCW World Heavyweight Championship Belt to Goldberg on a throwaway Nitro main event match, because Goldberg would eventually implode with the WCW WHC Belt and it made sense for him to lose to Nash at Starrcade '98. If Bill had better trainers down at the WCW Power Plant developmental system, he would've been much better and well more received without being thrust into the spotlight too quick a la Ultimate Warrior.

Starrcade '98 was the PPV that Lex Luger was sidelined for, due to a legit torn biceps tendon. A better way to write Luger out of action rather than holding it off until Wolfpac and Hollywood merged back to one nWo, this time under the Wolfpac banner as heels. WCW had Luger written off via Rey Mysterio slamming the car door on his injured arm/biceps area.

It would've been more better if Luger was kayfabe injured as a face, most likely at the hands of Scott Steiner doing the attacking, while Buff Bagwell plays the psuedo manager and mocks Luger's misfortune. But then: Randy Savage (Torn ACL) and Sting (Drug Rehab) were already sidelined, so Luger being the next Wolfpac face to hit the sidelines via injury would've meant it's down to Kevin Nash and Konnan and after whoever orchestrated Scott Hall being eventually kicked out of nWo Hollywood at the 1998 WW3 PPV was likely Scott Steiner, so Hall was out of the B&W and on his own, so there was a fair chance Hall could've replaced Luger, Sting and Savage because Hennig was still a B&W member and Rude was out due to a supposed testicular cancer bout since September 1998.

Nash was not more over than Goldberg or even Sting for that matter. I've watched the Nitro episodes leading up to Starrcade and even the Nitro afterwards and the fans were clearly more pro Goldberg than vice versa. Nash only got the big pop for ending the streak but according to Meltzer's WON review of the show after it went off the air 60% of the crowd was booing.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

Nash was not more over than Goldberg or even Sting for that matter. I've watched the Nitro episodes leading up to Starrcade and even the Nitro afterwards and the fans were clearly more pro Goldberg than vice versa. Nash only got the big pop for ending the streak but according to Meltzer's WON review of the show after it went off the air 60% of the crowd was booing.

@Chris1-16: I wouldn't put too much stock into any of Dave Meltzer's exaggerated reports. It's like the Wrestling Newsletter Observer, in the sense that it's like a private WWF Slammy Awards on newsletter bulletins.

BTW, Nash was the one that was made to be a laughing stock by Hogan and Bischoff's orders. Usually, Hogan and Bischoff essentially booked the Wolfpac to look like tackle dummies, where a Wolfpac member gets the receiving end of a beatdown courtesy of Hollywood Hogan, Eric Bischoff, Bret Hart and the rest of the nWo Hollywood/Black and White contingent, and not a single fellow Wolfpac member made their run-in queue to come to the aid of a beaten down Wolfpac member.

And yes, Nash, Hall and Savage were all WAY more over because it was the era of the cool heels where people like Nash, Hall, Savage, Konnan and Sting (in Silent Crow Sting form circa '96-'97) led WCW based on who were the most over anti-heroes that people grativated more and resonated with. Nobody resonated with Hogan, Bret and Bischoff because Bischoff is unconvincing as a face, and Hogan & Bret spent most of their primes and wrestling careers for the World Wrestling Federation, so you know WCW wasn't gonna accept both of them as faces down in the U.S. Southern belt area. WWF was a New York based wrestling promotion.

 

[Chris1-16]

@Chris1-16: I wouldn't put too much stock into any of Dave Meltzer's exaggerated reports. It's like the Wrestling Newsletter Observer, in the sense that it's like a private WWF Slammy Awards on newsletter bulletins.

BTW, Nash was the one that was made to be a laughing stock by Hogan and Bischoff's orders. Usually, Hogan and Bischoff essentially booked the Wolfpac to look like tackle dummies, where a Wolfpac member gets the receiving end of a beatdown courtesy of Hollywood Hogan, Eric Bischoff, Bret Hart and the rest of the nWo Hollywood/Black and White contingent, and not a single fellow Wolfpac member made their run-in queue to come to the aid of a beaten down Wolfpac member.

And yes, Nash, Hall and Savage were all WAY more over because it was the era of the cool heels where people like Nash, Hall, Savage, Konnan and Sting (in Silent Crow Sting form circa '96-'97) led WCW based on who were the most over anti-heroes that people grativated more and resonated with. Nobody resonated with Hogan, Bret and Bischoff because Bischoff is unconvincing as a face, and Hogan & Bret spent most of their primes and wrestling careers for the World Wrestling Federation, so you know WCW wasn't gonna accept both of them as faces down in the U.S. Southern belt area. WWF was a New York based wrestling promotion.

Why would Meltzer lie? The crowd being pro Goldberg against Nash both leading up to Starrcade and the Nitro episode afterwards gives some legitimacy to what he said, I'd take what he said back in 98 when it actually happened over this board that lives off revisionist history.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

@Chris1-16 The crowd cheers for Goldberg were piped in sound effects because people actually booed him against Nash. Put Goldberg against Hogan and he'd be cheered, but put him against a fellow face in Kevin Nash who's far more superiorly over as a cool anti-hero face, and wow, crowd boos will be coming Goldberg's way.

Plus, nobody cared about Sting and Goldberg by 2000 and 2001 as WCW's top faces. All the fans wanted was Nash and DDP leading the way against Scott Steiner, Ric Flair and the rest of the Magnificent Seven composed of role players like Jeff Jarrett, Rick Steiner, Lex Luger, Buff Bagwell and Road Warrior Animal.

 

[Chris1-16]

@Chris1-16 The crowd cheers for Goldberg were piped in sound effects because people actually booed him against Nash. Put Goldberg against Hogan and he'd be cheered, but put him against a fellow face in Kevin Nash who's far more superiorly over as a cool anti-hero face, and wow, crowd boos will be coming Goldberg's way.

Plus, nobody cared about Sting and Goldberg by 2000 and 2001 as WCW's top faces. All the fans wanted was Nash and DDP leading the way against Scott Steiner, Ric Flair and the rest of the Magnificent Seven composed of role players like Jeff Jarrett, Rick Steiner, Lex Luger, Buff Bagwell and Road Warrior Animal.

No they weren't piped in because the fans were booing him, they were piping in Goldberg chants as early as when he was the US Champion and was clearly the hottest star in the company. I don't know why they piping the chants in, he was over enough already without them. WCW did a lot of unnecessary shit that year that made absolutely no sense.

If Nash was so over like you said how come WCW business and ratings went in the toilet when he had the World Title in 99?

 

[Makaveli31]

Goldberg jobbing to Kevin Nash via recent ousted nWo Hollywood member Scott Hall (since 1998 World War 3 PPV) doing outside interference with the stun gun taser imo absolutely made sense. Plus, nobody complained about the taser ending that much, because Goldberg needed to lose the streak and the belt to Nash because...

I'll just repeat what Kevin Sullivan said that night. They sold out the MCI Center. Something like over 18,000. Sullivan says you could hear the fans chanting "Goldberg" in front of the arena hours before the PPV and he asks Bischoff, "We're going to beat this guy?" Bischoff says they're tired of seeing him winning. Sullivan gives the best response EVER "Really?!? So they're here to see him lose?!?"

So they built Goldberg as this legitimate, indestructible force and he loses because of a taser gun?!? Well....why didn't the other 200 guys just use a taser gun to defeat him?!? He needed to lose LEGITIMATELY to give the new champion ANY kind of credibility. Like Sullivan says, Goldberg could've went for the spear, Nash moves, Goldberg hits his shoulder on the ring post, Nash hits the boot 1-2-3. Nash is the new champion without some bullshit taser gun. Goldberg can say "if it wasn't for the ring post he would've won blah blah blah"

They might have piped it in but if you didn't think the fans were chanting for Goldberg also you are crazy and delusional. He was massively over and probably the only guy that could've competed with Austin on the other channel.

 

[Chris1-16]

If the Goldberg chants were piped in during the Nash feud Meltzer would've said they were because he was always quick to point out in his reviews whether they were or not, and according to him they weren't at that point.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

@Chris1-16

Nash cannot be blamed for the WCW going down the toilet. Blame the higher-ups at Time Warner who snagged WCW away from Ted Turner by 1998. The negative effects were clear by 1999.

25% blame goes to Hogan for his creative control clause, the other 25% of the blame is placed on Eric Bischoff for not doing something about questioning and standing up to Hogan when Hogan had his real-life heat with Nash behind-the-scenes, and the rest of the 50% majority of the blame goes to Time Warner executives for ruining the WCW across the board in their final years from 1999-2001.

Bischoff was the one that actually wanted to go the Attitude Era route, but Time Warner pumped the brakes on Bischoff's influence, forcing him to do the lame family-friendly content with limited creative matters. If only Ted Turner (or later Time Warner) accepted Bischoff's request and creative idea to go the Attitude route, maybe WCW would've still been alive today.

By 2000, WCW had a fire sale purge to rid themselves of veterans by relinquishing Scott Hall, Randy Savage, Roddy Piper, Curt Hennig, Miss Elizabeth, Lex Luger, Vince Russo, Kimberly Page, Eric Bischoff, Stevie Ray, Bret Hart, Madusa, Gorgeous George (Savage's second wife), Bobby Heenan, Larry Zbyszko, Horace Hogan, and even Hulk Hogan. They almost lost Konnan as well in early 2000 when WCW suspended him for complaining about how the luchadores were utilized, but the luchadores were not main event draws, and at least Konnan ain't generic like the rest of the cruiserweights, and they would've lost Kevin Nash as well by the very end of WCW because he was still around while Hall had been at that point released from WCW. WCW bookers assumed that Nash was getting increasingly super difficult to deal with, because he would usually mention Scott Hall's name even though WCW bookers tried their hardest to reprimand Nash for mentioning his Outsiders tag partner constantly. Eventually, WCW and Time Warner censored Nash every time he tried to mention Hall, like Time Warner assumed that Scott Hall is a swear word to them.

Time Warner's refusal to promote WCW was Time Warner's own fault for neglecting to give WCW another channel slot, just when WCW was looking to re-emerge with The Magnificent Seven. Ted Turner should've just sold WCW to Eric Bischoff imo, because at least he would've been allowed infinitely free reign to go the Attitude era style in WCW rather than being forced to put out cringeworthy family friendly shows. And I have a feeling that Hogan, Hall, Nash and Piper would've rejoined the WWF by 2001 once their WCW careers were complete, while WCW could've taken back Steve Austin, Road Dogg, Chyna and X-Pac in return once the Monday Night Wars were over with WCW somehow staying intact as a company, and there was no need for Austin, Chyna and Pac to stick around in the WWF.

 

[Chris1-16]

Nash cannot be blamed for the WCW going down the toilet. Blame the higher-ups at Time Warner who snagged WCW away from Ted Turner by 1998. The negative effects were clear by 1999.

25% blame goes to Hogan for his creative control clause, the other 25% of the blame is placed on Eric Bischoff for not doing something about questioning and standing up to Hogan when Hogan had his real-life heat with Nash behind-the-scenes, and the rest of the 50% majority of the blame goes to Time Warner executives for ruining the WCW across the board in their final years from 1999-2001.

Bischoff was the one that actually wanted to go the Attitude Era route, but Time Warner pumped the brakes on Bischoff's influence, forcing him to do the lame family-friendly content with limited creative matters. If only Ted Turner (or later Time Warner) accepted Bischoff's request and creative idea to go the Attitude route, maybe WCW would've still been alive today.

By 2000, WCW had a fire sale purge to rid themselves of veterans by relinquishing Scott Hall, Randy Savage, Roddy Piper, Curt Hennig, Miss Elizabeth, Lex Luger, Vince Russo, Kimberly Page, Eric Bischoff, Stevie Ray, Bret Hart, Madusa, Gorgeous George (Savage's second wife), Bobby Heenan, Larry Zbyszko, Horace Hogan, and even Hulk Hogan. They almost lost Konnan as well in early 2000 when WCW suspended him for complaining about how the luchadores were utilized, but the luchadores were not main event draws, and at least Konnan ain't generic like the rest of the cruiserweights.

Time Warner's refusal to promote WCW was Time Warner's own fault for neglecting to give WCW another channel slot, just when WCW was looking to re-emerge with The Magnificent Seven. Ted Turner should've just sold WCW to Eric Bischoff imo, because at least he would've been allowed infinitely free reign to go the Attitude era style in WCW rather than being forced to put out cringeworthy family friendly shows. And I have a feeling that Hogan, Hall, Nash and Piper would've rejoined the WWF by 2001 once their WCW careers were complete, while WCW could've taken back Steve Austin, Road Dogg, Chyna and X-Pac in return once the Monday Night Wars were over with WCW somehow staying intact as a company, and there was no need for Austin, Chyna and Pac to stick around in the WWF.

Don't blame Time Warner, Nash was booking everything for most of the year. WCW had more Attitude Era content in 99 than than they did in previous years, they weren't being restricted at all. There was the whole Rodman-Savage stuff, there was the Nash-Savage feud that included sewage and the Hummer which was straight out of 98-99 WWE, they started doing hardcore matches just about every single week, Savage using physical abuse towards females, etc. WCW were considered hypocrites that year for bad mouthing WWE's content and then turning around and doing the exact same stuff.

 

[Chris1-16]

Oh, and I can't forget they began having the announcers at ringside and had them sit at an announce table, which people usually went through half of the time.

They were clearly copying WWE that year, only with worse booking and more politics involved.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

Nash was not more over than Goldberg or even Sting for that matter. I've watched the Nitro episodes leading up to Starrcade and even the Nitro afterwards and the fans were clearly more pro Goldberg than vice versa. Nash only got the big pop for ending the streak but according to Meltzer's WON review of the show after it went off the air 60% of the crowd was booing.

Don't blame Time Warner, Nash was booking everything for most of the year. WCW had more Attitude Era content in 99 than than they did in previous years, they weren't being restricted at all. There was the whole Rodman-Savage stuff, there was the Nash-Savage feud that included sewage and the Hummer which was straight out of 98-99 WWF, they started doing hardcore matches just about every single week, Savage using physical abuse towards females, etc. WCW were considered hypocrites that year for bad mouthing WWF's content and then turning around and doing the exact same stuff.

@Chris1-16: To be fair, WCW only got to do Attitude Era-style stuff when Vince Russo left the WWF creative team in Chris Kreski's hands, not long before Stephanie eventually took over and hired Hollywood directors who know nothing of entertaining wrestling.

WCW were only hypocrites in bad mouthing WWF's content because the content they were mocking was the New Generation era, not Attitude. Bischoff would've ran with the Attitude Era-style format for WCW without Time Warner executives ever dictating to Bischoff what he can and cannot do.

Kevin Nash was only a WCW booker because Bischoff now realized that in Hogan's absence, Bischoff knew he needed to make it up to Nash in some way after all the antics Hogan did to him and the Wolfpac in reducing them to being tackle dummies for nWo Hollywood beatdowns. Everybody knew Hogan was going to use the Creative Control clause whenever people stand up to him and question him for his CC clause interfering across the board.

So appointing Kevin Nash as a quasi WCW booker was the best way to keep him happy, now knowing that Hogan really stank in career-lows across the board wrestling. Hogan's kayfabe retirement from wrestling around late 1998 was a way to give Hogan some time off to do some muppet movie until he is ready to return to WCW. Hogan going to the movie set actually bought Bischoff some time to work on rebuilding his trust with Nash. And when the nWo Hollywood and nWo Wolfpac were merged back to one heel group under the Wolfpac emblem, it was so Goldberg can have matches with guys who can bring it in the ring.

The in-ring workers the newly merged nWo Wolfpac Elite had to offer were Scott Hall, Scott Steiner and a solid in-ring worker in Lex Luger because Hogan and Nash were never known for in-ring work and in-ring skillz don't define those two, and Buff Bagwell was still not ready to get back in the ring, but his broken neck was going to be totally completely healed shortly thereafter. Bagwell lost his in-ring skills when his broken neck won't allow him to execute his Blockbuster suplex finisher as crisp as it was pre-neck injury. I don't blame Bagwell for being over-reliant on muscle poses post-neck injury, and Attitude Era was not about great matches. Two minute matches and more promos and segments plus storylines were the way to go.

 

[Chris1-16]

@Chris1-16: To be fair, WCW only got to do Attitude Era-style stuff when Vince Russo left the WWF creative team in Chris Kreski's hands, not long before Stephanie eventually took over and hired Hollywood directors who know nothing of entertaining wrestling.

WCW were only hypocrites in bad mouthing WWF's content because the content they were mocking was the New Generation era, not Attitude. Bischoff would've ran with the Attitude Era-style format for WCW without Time Warner executives ever dictating to Bischoff what he can and cannot do.

Kevin Nash was only a WCW booker because Bischoff now realized that in Hogan's absence, Bischoff knew he needed to make it up to Nash in some way after all the antics Hogan did to him and the Wolfpac in reducing them to being tackle dummies for nWo Hollywood beatdowns. Everybody knew Hogan was going to use the Creative Control clause whenever people stand up to him and question him for his CC clause interfering across the board.

So appointing Kevin Nash as a quasi WCW booker was the best way to keep him happy, now knowing that Hogan really stank in career-lows across the board wrestling. Hogan's kayfabe retirement from wrestling around late 1998 was a way to give Hogan some time off to do some muppet movie until he is ready to return to WCW. Hogan going to the movie set actually bought Bischoff some time to work on rebuilding his trust with Nash. And when the nWo Hollywood and nWo Wolfpac were merged back to one heel group under the Wolfpac emblem, it was so Goldberg can have matches with guys who can bring it in the ring.

The in-ring workers the newly merged nWo Wolfpac Elite had to offer were Scott Hall, Scott Steiner and a solid in-ring worker in Lex Luger because Hogan and Nash were never known for in-ring work and in-ring skillz don't define those two, and Buff Bagwell was still not ready to get back in the ring, but his broken neck was going to be totally completely healed shortly thereafter. Bagwell lost his in-ring skills when his broken neck won't allow him to execute his Blockbuster suplex finisher as crisp as it was pre-neck injury. I don't blame Bagwell for being over-reliant on muscle poses post-neck injury, and Attitude Era was not about great matches. Two minute matches and more promos and segments plus storylines were the way to go.

Your posts are way too long man.

Anyway the examples I listed with WCW copying WWE happened in mid 1999 when Bischoff was still president and Nash had booking power, Bischoff lost his power in September and Nash was still booking until October.

 

[peter_midnight]

So much fail in this thread I don't even know where to begin. Makaveli is the only person here w/Accurate info.

I didn't think he was good fit for several reasons.

3) Savage was a natural alpha dog. A guy with nickname "Macho Man" should not follow any man and should be leading a bevy of beautiful women. He was a wild card. Someone who could switch alliances in the blink of an eye and only when it fit him.

LMAO, you're literally describing his 1999 gimmick. An awesome one at that.

I'll just repeat what Kevin Sullivan said that night. They sold out the MCI Center. Something like over 18,000. Sullivan says you could hear the fans chanting "Goldberg" in front of the arena hours before the PPV and he asks Bischoff, "We're going to beat this guy?" Bischoff says they're tired of seeing him winning. Sullivan gives the best response EVER "Really?!? So they're here to see him lose?!?"

I couldn't agree more. They had a million dollar live gate. WTF would you book Goldberg to lose?

Don't blame Time Warner, Nash was booking everything for most of the year. WCW had more Attitude Era content in 99 than than they did in previous years, they weren't being restricted at all. There was the whole Rodman-Savage stuff, there was the Nash-Savage feud that included sewage and the Hummer which was straight out of 98-99 WWE, they started doing hardcore matches just about every single week, Savage using physical abuse towards females, etc. WCW were considered hypocrites that year for bad mouthing WWE's content and then turning around and doing the exact same stuff.

The white hummer was done in WCW first. WCW did it in the summer of 99. WWF did it in November 99. Rikishi ran over Austin at the Survivor Series. Tully Blanchard slapped Babydoll back in the 80s.

Your posts are way too long man.

Anyway the examples I listed with WCW copying WWE happened in mid 1999 when Bischoff was still president and Nash had booking power, Bischoff lost his power in September and Nash was still booking until October.

The angles you listed weren't copying, but yes, they eventually did turn into Jerry Springer, which was not what WCW fans wanted to see so I agree in part with you.

Also, to the person that said Hogan had a failed babyface run. Just LMAO @ you. Hogan debuted in WCW breaking PPV and live gate attendance records (BATB '94). He then helped get Nitro beat Raw in 6 weeks. Hogan did get stale, but it was WAAAAAAY after his debut. I wouldn't call that a failed babyface run. Just a babyface run that ran too long.

 

[Chris1-16]

The angles you listed weren't copying, but yes, they eventually did turn into Jerry Springer, which was not what WCW fans wanted to see so I agree in part with you.

I wasn't saying WCW was copying the angles, they were copying the product style. WWE did the "truck destorys car/limo" angle numerous times with Austin before WCW did the white hummer storyline. The difference was that WCW did it by having someone inside of the limo while it was being destroyed, although Austin would also end up doing that angle with HHH in an ambulance a few months later with a semi truck.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

I think the reason behind why Goldberg had to lose to Kevin Nash was because, in reality, Goldberg had already mowed his way through virtually an entire WCW roster in one go, as part of his Undefeated Streak from his WCW debut in 1997 up until Starrcade '98. Goldberg at that point never fought Randy Savage and Bret Hart, because Savage was out with a Torn ACL since a friendly steel cage match vs DDP on Nitro via beatdown from nWo Hollywood, and Bret Hart was in and out of WCW due to groin surgery so that spelled the end of his association with nWo Hollywood, so WCW bookers can only do so much with Goldberg that people actually start to get sick and tired of the Undefeated Streak. Goldberg already went through the likes of Raven, Hugh Morrus, Meng, Barbarian, Perry Saturn, Curt Hennig, The Giant, Konnan, Glacier, Renegade, Mongo, DDP, Bam Bam Bigelow, Scott Hall, Scott Putski, Van Hammer, Barry Darsow, Ray Traylor, Brad Armstrong, Fit Finlay, Stevie Ray, Disco Inferno, Barry Horowitz, Yuji Nagata, Kendall Windham, Steven Regal, Scott Norton, Lodi, Sting and even Hollywood Hogan to build up such magnificient streak, so Nash was the perfect guy for the role of ending Goldberg's undefeated streak. Goldberg losing is for the purpose to make him more interesting than continuing the streak.

It does not matter if Kevin Nash defeated Goldberg at Starrcade '98 because of Scott Hall's run-in interference with the stun gun taser cattle prod weapon. What mattered was that if you have a look at Wrath aka Bryan Clark/Adam Bomb on Kevin Nash's throwaway match against Wrath on Nitro, you would've figured that Nash's popularity was through the roof, even though Wrath himself was a face, although he is a dozen steps down from Nash's level. Adam Bomb was just bitter because his reason for leaving the WWF in 1995 was because The Kliq were in charge of the WWF behind-the-scenes, yet Clark couldn't fully get over until KroniK. I think the tag team division was appropriate for Bryan Clark imo, because his best moments were really when he tag teamed with Brian Adams as part of KroniK.

By the way, @Chris1-16; the Nash/Goldberg match at Starracde '98 was a No Disqualification match, so anything goes, including the taser and the run-in by Scott Hall, Disco Inferno and Bam Bam Bigelow.

 

[peter_midnight]

I wasn't saying WCW was copying the angles, they were copying the product style. WWE did the "truck destorys car/limo" angle numerous times with Austin before WCW did the white hummer storyline. The difference was that WCW did it by having someone inside of the limo while it was being destroyed, although Austin would also end up doing that angle with HHH in an ambulance a few months later with a semi truck.

WCW had Sid Vicious, Vader, & Cheat'em blow up a boat that Sting & the British Bulldog were on in the early 90s. Hulk Hogan threw the Giant off the top of a building after battling it out in Monster Trucks (LMFAO) on Nitro in '95. Then there was when the Outsiders caused the Steiners to get into a car accident where they flipped the car over in 1997. So no, WCW had been doing dumb shit like that for a long time.

I think the reason behind why Goldberg had to lose to Kevin Nash was because, in reality, Goldberg had already mowed his way through virtually an entire WCW roster in one go, as part of his Undefeated Streak from his WCW debut in 1997 up until Starrcade '98. Goldberg at that point never fought Randy Savage and Bret Hart, because Savage was out with a Torn ACL since a friendly steel cage match vs DDP on Nitro via beatdown from nWo Hollywood, and Bret Hart was in and out of WCW due to groin surgery so that spelled the end of his association with nWo Hollywood, so WCW bookers can only do so much with Goldberg that people actually start to get sick and tired of the Undefeated Streak. Goldberg already went through the likes of Raven, Hugh Morrus, Meng, Barbarian, Perry Saturn, Curt Hennig, The Giant, Konnan, Glacier, Renegade, Mongo, DDP, Bam Bam Bigelow, Scott Hall, Scott Putski, Van Hammer, Barry Darsow, Ray Traylor, Brad Armstrong, Fit Finlay, Stevie Ray, Disco Inferno, Barry Horowitz, Yuji Nagata, Kendall Windham, Steven Regal, Scott Norton, Lodi, Sting and even Hollywood Hogan to build up such magnificient streak, so Nash was the perfect guy for the role of ending Goldberg's undefeated streak. Goldberg losing is for the purpose to make him more interesting than continuing the streak.

It does not matter if Kevin Nash defeated Goldberg at Starrcade '98 because of Scott Hall's run-in interference with the stun gun taser cattle prod weapon. What mattered was that if you have a look at Wrath aka Bryan Clark/Adam Bomb on Kevin Nash's throwaway match against Wrath on Nitro, you would've figured that Nash's popularity was through the roof, even though Wrath himself was a face, although he is a dozen steps down from Nash's level. Adam Bomb was just bitter because his reason for leaving the WWF in 1995 was because The Kliq were in charge of the WWF behind-the-scenes, yet Clark couldn't fully get over until KroniK. I think the tag team division was appropriate for Bryan Clark imo, because his best moments were really when he tag teamed with Brian Adams as part of KroniK.

By the way, @Chris1-16; the Nash/Goldberg match at Starracde '98 was a No Disqualification match, so anything goes, including the taser and the run-in by Scott Hall, Disco Inferno and Bam Bam Bigelow.

LOL@ some of the names for reasons why Goldberg had to lose. So if he didn't beat Barry Darsow, could they have main evented Starrcade instead of Goldberg-Nash? I'm just joking here, but I see some of your point. Again, if the live gate is over a million dollars and from what it sounds like a VERY rare occasion to see a guy undefeated, they didn't pay to see him lose. Not one guy in the wrestling business not named Hall or Nash agrees with you (please link me to a source if you find otherwise). What they probably should have done was build up some of the guys that went longer than 5 min w/Goldberg so that when he got the world title, they could have been good opponents.

Another idea is to stop having Goldberg compete every week on tv. I believe he hadn't faced Scott Steiner until after the fingerpoke. THAT would've been a great buildup, which they did later in 2000, but was WAY too late. I don't think they had beaten Benoit yet, so there's another guy to build. In fact, he may have been THE guy to build at that point. The dude made fucking Meng tap out. That should be the guy that has a shot at beating Goldberg.

You just don't waste an undefeated record on Kevin Nash. WCW wasn't in need of top heels, half of the heels in the company had major heat at that point. What they lacked was an over babyface. A potential solution (if there is one to the Goldberg dilemma) is to build to babyface-babyface title match and have the other guy go over on Goldberg. Or you do what Heenan said and have Goldberg retire undefeated.