The differrence between a live event crowd and a TV crowd

[Navi]

My other problem is that's for some fans that are mad about Reigns beings shove down their throat but when one of their favorite get the same treatment like Finn Balor did last year, it'S o.k. because they like the guy. So i think their always going to be a double standard with internet fans about who can be shove down fans throat and who can't.

Okay let tell you what I see from where I'm sitting and you can tell me if I'm wrong or not.

When the Shield debuted they quickly became one of the best things on TV each week. Not only did they have a fantastic run, great booking and incredible matches, the chemistry between the three of them worked. They were magic.

After the Shield break up, all of them should have gone on to crave out singles careers for themselves, they were already on top.

Ambrose became the Lunatic Fringe. The crazy nutter who would take on all comers and it didn't matter what kind of heavy equipment they were driving at the time. By the way he still remains the most over of the three Shield members today.

Rollins was a Authority Stooge, the chosen one. He proclaimed he was smarter than everyone else, after all wasn't he the one who created the Shield to begin with. Then he went to Redesign, Reclaim and Rebuild, or something like that after his knee injury. Now he's Seth Freakin Rollins.

Both of them left the Shield behind and while Ambrose has had the better of the two, Rollins if they can redo his face turn will be right up there as well.

Roman Reigns is still a member of the Shield. Nothing about him changed. Same music, same riot gear and until recently he was still coming through the crowd with the ghosts of Ambrose and Rollins with him. Who is Roman Reigns, what is his gimmick? I see a big guy who is a cousin of the Rock's, has kids and wants to be champion. Well hell almost everyone else on the roster has kids and wants to be champion as well.

Even his "This is my yard" "I'm the big dog", that's taken from the Shield as well. Remember when they were the Hounds of Justice, and it was their yard. All creative did was turn a plural into a singular. Yes he got better in the ring, but his mic work is still bad.

You can't use the excuse that he moves a lot of merchandise as an excuse, because he didn't always. So what's the excuse for the push before that happened. The only time he gets universally cheered is when he, Ambrose and Rollins are in a multi-man match and they tease a Shield reunion. Yea again we're back to the Shield, aren't we.

Listen I don't hate the guy, but don't see why he's getting all of this handed to him on a silver platter when I see no evolution from him in the 5 years he's been on the roster. I don't hate him, just confused as too what they see in him other than his looks and family background.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Okay let tell you what I see from where I'm sitting and you can tell me if I'm wrong or not.

When the Shield debuted they quickly became one of the best things on TV each week. Not only did they have a fantastic run, great booking and incredible matches, the chemistry between the three of them worked. They were magic.

After the Shield break up, all of them should have gone on to crave out singles careers for themselves, they were already on top.

Ambrose became the Lunatic Fringe. The crazy nutter who would take on all comers and it didn't matter what kind of heavy equipment they were driving at the time. By the way he still remains the most over of the three Shield members today.

Rollins was a Authority Stooge, the chosen one. He proclaimed he was smarter than everyone else, after all wasn't he the one who created the Shield to begin with. Then he went to Redesign, Reclaim and Rebuild, or something like that after his knee injury. Now he's Seth Freakin Rollins.

Both of them left the Shield behind and while Ambrose has had the better of the two, Rollins if they can redo his face turn will be right up there as well.

Roman Reigns is still a member of the Shield. Nothing about him changed. Same music, same riot gear and until recently he was still coming through the crowd with the ghosts of Ambrose and Rollins with him. Who is Roman Reigns, what is his gimmick? I see a big guy who is a cousin of the Rock's, has kids and wants to be champion. Well hell almost everyone else on the roster has kids and wants to be champion as well.

Even his "This is my yard" "I'm the big dog", that's taken from the Shield as well. Remember when they were the Hounds of Justice, and it was their yard. All creative did was turn a plural into a singular. Yes he got better in the ring, but his mic work is still bad.

You can't use the excuse that he moves a lot of merchandise as an excuse, because he didn't always. So what's the excuse for the push before that happened. The only time he gets universally cheered is when he, Ambrose and Rollins are in a multi-man match and they tease a Shield reunion. Yea again we're back to the Shield, aren't we.

Listen I don't hate the guy, but don't see why he's getting all of this handed to him on a silver platter when I see no evolution from him in the 5 years he's been on the roster. I don't hate him, just confused as too what they see in him other than his looks and family background.

You're right about most thing and on the surface, you're right that he still kinda like his shield persona, where I would disagree with you is that lack of evolution for reigns or the fact that the other 2 we're over after leaving the shield. All three in my opinion I didn't really see any evolution in any of the shield members. Ambrose pretty much stayed is crazy self from when he was in the shield, rollins pretty much stayed the same character but as a heel, in fact right now, he pretty much the same guy he was when he was in the shield, reigns got stuck with the whole shield stuff, one of them needed to keep all that bagage and reigns got stuck with it.

Right now, if you look at all three former member of the shield, reigns is the most over of the three and that why he's getting what he's getting. WWE Is a publicly traded company, so they are going to go with wat makes them money and sadly for some fans, reigns makes them money, that the reality of the business right now, when I write about how reigns moves alot of merchandise, it's not an excuse, it's a fact and that why he's getting everything he gets so easily. I agree with you that their hasn't be alot of evolution in reigns character but at the same time, that what got him over in the first place. The tough guy personna is what go him over and it's what his helping get over with a segment of the audience right now.

I don't know if this helps you understands why he's getting this push but that all I can write to explain it to you

 

[TheHitman316]

I live in NYC. One of the smarkiest cities around. And I attend a few WWE shows here in the metro area. Usually I bring my wife and kids. My wife being a casual fan and my kids being heavily involved. With that being said. There is a huge difference in crowd reactions at either MSG or Barclays for live events.

First off, I believe the hardcore fans attend TV shows, due to the fact they know they will be on television. They get to be seen and heard by other fans on TV. And sometimes even get acknowledged by the announcers themselves. Most live events consist of both demographics. Families & hardcore fans. I've seen and heard Cena get cheered at the garden and Brooklyn, Reigns, Ambrose, Ziggler gets a huge pop at non televised events. And then I've heard fans boo Styles, Rollins (heel phase) Owens, Jericho.

I personally feel its due to the being on television. Being the focal point sometimes of the show. But reaction does change due to live events & TV tapings.

 

[TheHitman316]

Okay let tell you what I see from where I'm sitting and you can tell me if I'm wrong or not.

When the Shield debuted they quickly became one of the best things on TV each week. Not only did they have a fantastic run, great booking and incredible matches, the chemistry between the three of them worked. They were magic.

After the Shield break up, all of them should have gone on to crave out singles careers for themselves, they were already on top.

Ambrose became the Lunatic Fringe. The crazy nutter who would take on all comers and it didn't matter what kind of heavy equipment they were driving at the time. By the way he still remains the most over of the three Shield members today.

Rollins was a Authority Stooge, the chosen one. He proclaimed he was smarter than everyone else, after all wasn't he the one who created the Shield to begin with. Then he went to Redesign, Reclaim and Rebuild, or something like that after his knee injury. Now he's Seth Freakin Rollins.

Both of them left the Shield behind and while Ambrose has had the better of the two, Rollins if they can redo his face turn will be right up there as well.

Roman Reigns is still a member of the Shield. Nothing about him changed. Same music, same riot gear and until recently he was still coming through the crowd with the ghosts of Ambrose and Rollins with him. Who is Roman Reigns, what is his gimmick? I see a big guy who is a cousin of the Rock's, has kids and wants to be champion. Well hell almost everyone else on the roster has kids and wants to be champion as well.

Even his "This is my yard" "I'm the big dog", that's taken from the Shield as well. Remember when they were the Hounds of Justice, and it was their yard. All creative did was turn a plural into a singular. Yes he got better in the ring, but his mic work is still bad.

You can't use the excuse that he moves a lot of merchandise as an excuse, because he didn't always. So what's the excuse for the push before that happened. The only time he gets universally cheered is when he, Ambrose and Rollins are in a multi-man match and they tease a Shield reunion. Yea again we're back to the Shield, aren't we.

Listen I don't hate the guy, but don't see why he's getting all of this handed to him on a silver platter when I see no evolution from him in the 5 years he's been on the roster. I don't hate him, just confused as too what they see in him other than his looks and family background.

I don't think anything has been handed to him on a silver platter. If anything he's been treated like most of the main eventers at WWE The guy has won one Royal Rumble. Main evented his first WM and lost. Won the WWE Championship at the Survivor Series only to loose it 1 minute later. Lost the WWE title at the Royal Rumble. Got suspended and embarrassed on television about it. He lost to Finn Balor cleanly. He lost the US title to Jericho. Lost the brand war at Survivor Series.

He might not get an entirely positive reaction. But he gets a reaction, none the less.

Being related to the Rock has nothing do with any of this. As the Rock buried him in a dark segment on RAW during the shooting of Paige's movie.

And by the looks of things, it looks like Taker' chose him to be his opponent at WM this year. We all know taker' has that leverage.

 

[ShinChan]

Why would you want a heel turn for reigns really,

Because that's the right thing to do.

from what i'm seeing right now, he'S already a heel to alot of fans anyway.

Nopes, he isn't. Just because he ain't able to get cheers as a face should, it doesn’t make him a heel. It's called failure at being a face. Sour grapes, I think.

You really don'T need to have a clear traditional heel turn for i'm,

I don't agree. He does need a heel turn.

just let him be the character that he's been for the last couple of months.

Nopes. I don't want him to get more rubs as a face. Because it's pointless.

I'm actually starting to love his work since he turn into this cocky tweener heel character that he'S been doing,

Tweener ain't equal to heel.

it's how he should have been booked all along in my opinion,

Again there isn't much difference. He as a midcard champion was often going over the Universal Champion and then defeated Braun Strowman as well.

so i say let him be a tweener character,

I don't agree again.

he'S great at it

He's good but calling him great is an exaggeration.

and you going to make a ton of money with him anyway.

Then keep him as the same and I will stop caring soon. There's always a limit.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Because that's the right thing to do.


Nopes, he isn't. Just because he ain't able to get cheers as a face should, it doesn’t make him a heel. It's called failure at being a face. Sour grapes, I think.


I don't agree. He does need a heel turn.


Nopes. I don't want him to get more rubs as a face. Because it's pointless.


Tweener ain't equal to heel.


Again there isn't much difference. He as a midcard champion was often going over the Universal Champion and then defeated Braun Strowman as well.


I don't agree again.


He's good but calling him great is an exaggeration.


Then keep him as the same and I will stop caring soon. There's always a limit.

If you think that the fact that you will stop caring will stop wwe from doing what they are doing, you're dreamng. You're just one fan and most of the iwc will continue caring because witout reigns, they don't have anything to complain about and fans that actually like him and you're seeing more and more fans jumping on the bandwagon, are going to continue caring for him, if I go with your logic, if reigns a face and getting a heel reaction, he's a failure as been a face, so does that means that a.j styles is a failure as a heel because fans are cheering him? Does that means that dean ambrose is a failure because nobody cares about him?

In my opinion don't see that as failure, I see that as fans chanting for who they want to chant for and making those wrestlers babyface or heels even if they act differently. We are not in the keyfabe era anymore, where in the internet era and fans have more power then ever before to decide who doing what, reigns is a tweener because of the reaction is getting. The dueling chant are getting louder every week during his matches which makes him a tweener, just like aj styles is a babyface even if he act like a heel or bobby roode is a face in nxt even if he act like a heel.

 

[ShinChan]

If you think that the fact that you will stop caring will stop wwe from doing what they are doing, you're dreamng.

Who said so? Did I even imply something that you're considering? No, I didn't. I could care less about WWE if WWE could care less about my entertainment.

You're just one fan and most of the iwc will continue caring because witout reigns, they don't have anything to complain about and fans that actually like him and you're seeing more and more fans jumping on the bandwagon, are going to continue caring for him, if I go with your logic, if reigns a face and getting a heel reaction, he's a failure as been a face, so does that means that a.j styles is a failure as a heel because fans are cheering him?

I ain't going to speak on behalf of IWC. I'm speaking for myself. Funny how you compare Roman Reigns to AJ Styles. Do you know why fans cheer Styles? I would love to see you tell me the reason for fans to cheer him.

Does that means that dean ambrose is a failure because nobody cares about him?

Nobody cares about Dean Ambrose? Really?



You need to be impartial and then see. Again funny how you speak on behalf of everybody and say that "Nobody cares about him".

In my opinion don't see that as failure, I see that as fans chanting for who they want to chant for and making those wrestlers babyface or heels even if they act differently. We are not in the keyfabe era anymore, where in the internet era and fans have more power then ever before to decide who doing what, reigns is a tweener because of the reaction is getting. The dueling chant are getting louder every week during his matches which makes him a tweener,

The crowd erupts whenever Brock Lesnar makes an appearance as a heel. Paul Heyman makes people boo him. Does that make him a face? Well, nopes.

just like aj styles is a babyface even if he act like a heel

He's a heel. Nowhere near a babyface.

or bobby roode is a face in nxt even if he act like a heel.

He's a heel as well. He got a damn good gimmick and people just love it too much to boo him. But he actually gets booed as well as a heel should.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Who said so? Did I even imply something that you're considering? No, I didn't. I could care less about WWE if WWE could care less about my entertainment.


I ain't going to speak on behalf of IWC. I'm speaking for myself. Funny how you compare Roman Reigns to AJ Styles. Do you know why fans cheer Styles? I would love to see you tell me the reason for fans to cheer him.


Nobody cares about Dean Ambrose? Really?



You need to be impartial and then see. Again funny how you speak on behalf of everybody and say that "Nobody cares about him".


The crowd erupts whenever Brock Lesnar makes an appearance as a heel. Paul Heyman makes people boo him. Does that make him a face? Well, nopes.


He's a heel. Nowhere near a babyface.


He's a heel as well. He got a damn good gimmick and people just love it too much to boo him. But he actually gets booed as well as a heel should.

with you're reply, you just prove my point that i was making about reigns, the guy is a babyface that get some heels reaction but he does get some babyface reactions as well just like Aj get some heel reaction but mostly babyface reaction and same goes for pretty much the entire roster. The times have changes from the times and fans cheer for whoever they wants and boo for whoever they want. You don't have this clear cut babyface/heel dynamic anymore. Reigns is over because he gets the biggest pop from the crowd every single week. That pop can be negative or can be positive it depend on where they are but he always get a loud pop everytime his music plays and he gets a louder fan reactions throughout his matches the the point that fans turn him babyface by the time his match is over. But if you don'T hear that, you probably need to get your ears checks.

The fact is, i was only using your logic to demonstrate how stupid your logic was. I think that sometimes some fans and i'm not including you in this, take wrestlings to seriously and take it as a really sports we're the outcome is more important then what goes on inside the ring. This isn'T a sport, it's entertainment and sometimes a guy that you don't like will get the win that doesn'T means that the guy that lost is damage good because of it. Braun Strowman wasn't a priority going into mania but they still protected him in his lost to reigns and made him look like a monster even if he lost.

I think that there'S 2 set of wrestling fans, thoses that take this to seriously and believe everything that is written by dave meltzer and other so called reporters and those that just want to enjoy the product as is and are able to express there own opinion based on what they see and heard not what some reporter wrote on the internet. Me i'm the second type of fans, you pick which one you are.

 

[ShinChan]

It's ridiculous that you ignore multiple questions of mine. But continue.

with you're reply, you just prove my point that i was making about reigns, the guy is a babyface that get some heels reaction

Oh My God. Your point? I guess that I said that Roman Reigns is a babyface. You were the one saying that he's a tweener. Don't conveniently take sides. Roman Reigns is a babyface who fails to gets cheered. That's it. Read again what I already said and what you said.

but he does get some babyface reactions as well just like Aj get some heel reaction but mostly babyface reaction and same goes for pretty much the entire roster. The times have changes from the times and fans cheer for whoever they wants and boo for whoever they want. You don't have this clear cut babyface/heel dynamic anymore. Reigns is over because he gets the biggest pop from the crowd every single week. That pop can be negative or can be positive it depend on where they are but he always get a loud pop everytime his music plays and he gets a louder fan reactions throughout his matches the the point that fans turn him babyface by the time his match is over.

Biggest pop? Wow. AJ Styles gets cheered because he's a respected wrestler. Something you obviously know but ignore it for convenience. A wrestler gets cheered as a sign of respect. When has a wrestler got booed as a sign of respect?

But if you don'T hear that, you probably need to get your ears checks.

I do hear a significant cheering and massive booing as well. However I DO NEED TO GET MY EARS CHECKED. Thanks for telling me. Funny how you consider that no one cares for Dean Ambrose and he's massively over but I need to get my ears checked? Stop caring about my ears, I'll go to doctor soon.

The fact is, i was only using your logic to demonstrate how stupid your logic was.

So, if a babyface is getting booed, he isn't failure? Good to know whose logic is stupid.

I think that sometimes some fans and i'm not including you in this, take wrestlings to seriously and take it as a really sports we're the outcome is more important then what goes on inside the ring. This isn'T a sport, it's entertainment and sometimes a guy that you don't like will get the win that doesn'T means that the guy that lost is damage good because of it.

It's not about my likehood. It's about continuity. I won't mind even if my favorite loses but there needs to be a logical reason for it.

Braun Strowman wasn't a priority going into mania but they still protected him in his lost to reigns and made him look like a monster even if he lost.

Build Strowman for more than 6 months and then feed him to Roman Reigns because Reigns should be the only one to get rubs?

I think that there'S 2 set of wrestling fans, thoses that take this to seriously and believe everything that is written by dave meltzer and other so called reporters and those that just want to enjoy the product as is and are able to express there own opinion based on what they see and heard not what some reporter wrote on the internet. Me i'm the second type of fans, you pick which one you are.

It's my opinion. Not someone's else. I have enough self-respect to possess my own opinion and not be a sheep just preaching whatever someone on Internet says. I could care less about what Meltzer thinks about it.

 

[Navi]

If you think that the fact that you will stop caring will stop wwe from doing what they are doing, you're dreamng. You're just one fan and most of the iwc will continue caring because witout reigns, they don't have anything to complain about

No the WWE doesn't care about one person, they don't care at all. That's why we have seen this continued push of Reigns for the last 3 years. Maybe all of us should just shut up when we see something we don't like and say nothing. Oh and by the way they give us lot's to complain about on a weekly basis, Roman Reigns isn't the be all end all in the WWE. So from now on, Roman Reigns is a God, he is the best there ever will be, I love him and worship him. There are you happy now.

and fans that actually like him and you're seeing more and more fans jumping on the bandwagon, are going to continue caring for him, if I go with your logic, if reigns a face and getting a heel reaction, he's a failure as been a face, so does that means that a.j styles is a failure as a heel because fans are cheering him? Does that means that dean ambrose is a failure because nobody cares about him?

Every wrestler has fans that like them, doesn't make anyone of them unique. But I disagree on Ambrose and Styles. AJ Styles is liked even though he's a heel. He is quite honestly one of the best wrestlers on the planet today, so he is no failure. As for Ambrose, he has remained popular since the Shield broke up. How you can say no one cares about him, I have no idea.

 

[ShinChan]

No the WWE doesn't care about one person, they don't care at all. That's why we have seen this continued push of Reigns for the last 3 years. Maybe all of us should just shut up when we see something we don't like and say nothing. Oh and by the way they give us lot's to complain about on a weekly basis, Roman Reigns isn't the be all end all in the WWE. So from now on, Roman Reigns is a God, he is the best there ever will be, I love him and worship him. There are you happy now.



Every wrestler has fans that like them, doesn't make anyone of them unique. But I disagree on Ambrose and Styles. AJ Styles is liked even though he's a heel. He is quite honestly one of the best wrestlers on the planet today, so he is no failure. As for Ambrose, he has remained popular since the Shield broke up. How you can say no one cares about him, I have no idea.

He has remained massively over even after he was squashed by Brock Lesnar. That match had bunch of expectations but ended up being a horrible one. He remained so even after failing multiple times at getting the big title. His title win made crowd totally erupt in his favour. But nobody cares about him and he still gets cheered a lot, more than Navi's God Roman Reigns.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I think you are mistaking the difference between the person and the wrestler here. People don't hate Roman Reigns as a person, there is no hatred at all. They dislike the wrestling gimmick, it's totally different thing. A lot of people don't like Cena for the same reason, they think his gimmick is stale, but it sells to the kids in the audience, they have great respect for him as a person. Listen we're stuck with Reigns for the long haul. I'm not happy about it, I think he's boring as shit and a heel turn won't change that. I still don't like his gimmick and he's ruined any Shield reunion for me that will ever happen.

You keep going on about Reigns being number two in sales, where are you getting this from. I've seen nothing that says that. They don't release those numbers. It's sad that a wrestler is pushed because of how much t-shirts he sells, but it's all about the money isn't it.

I think it was either pwinsider or the wrestling observer newsletter that release the latest number as far as merchandise sales we're concern, I don't really remember which one was mention in the article I've read on another website but it was from one of those 2 sites that reported it.

As far as the gimmick, is concern, I think that their no real difference between reigns the person and reigns the wrestlers. The guy did earn alot of respect from the fans that used to hate him because of the hard work he put into becoming a better wrestlers and develpping his character. If you would have told me that I would be a fan of reigns rights now a year ago, I would have laugh in your face. But I became a fan of his in the last couple of months because he's finally became what he should have been all along as a character. But I think that nobody truly hates wrestlers based on their gimmick, I think wrestling fans especially the smart fans will start to hate somebody if it's not the guy they want to get the push but don't really understand how the business actually work especially in wwe we're the more money you are able to draw for the company, the bigger the push will be for the wrestlers. That the reality of the thing with wwe. So like it or not, we are stuck with reigns in this tweener role for a log time.

I'm just going to leave this here:

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/821...gns-now-being-a-top-merchandise-seller-in-wwe

According to the latest edition of The Wrestling Observer Newsletter, with John Cena now being a part-time wrestler in WWE, Roman Reigns has become the top merchandise seller of all the full time talent in WWE, and “there’s nobody ready to take his place.” As noted, John Cena will be taking time off WWE once again after WrestleMania to work on projects outside of the company, and he currently has four movies either ready for release or in production. Those films include “The Wall”, “Daddy’s Home 2”, “Ferdinand” and “The Pact”.

It was noted that in addition to selling the most merchandise of any full-timer, Reigns also gets the most reaction of any full-timer on Raw, even though it’s mostly mixed or negative. As noted, in a recent interview with Sports Illustrated, Triple H had the following to say regarding Roman Reigns’ heel/face status in WWE:

“People can look at Roman Reigns and say, ‘The failed attempt that is Roman Reigns,’ but Roman Reigns sells tickets,” said Triple H. “Roman Reigns gets one of the loudest reactions every night, whether that reaction is a boo or whether that reaction is a cheer. The fans who say, ‘I don’t understand why they don’t turn Roman Reigns heel!’ Isn’t he already?

“If you believe what you believe, and you’re saying, ‘How can they not turn him heel? There is 70 percent of the crowd booing him out of the building!’ If that’s your belief, then isn’t he already the biggest heel we have? If 70 percent of that crowd is booing him, then he’s a heel. We’re just presenting him to you in a different way that makes you hate him.”

I'm beginning to find the subject of this entire thread (or more like where it's gone) to be hilarious. The biggest haters are often the biggest followers. I know I know, "but I don't care anymore." Tell me that again next time when you continue to post in Reigns threads.

Though, with the link I just posted, I'm saddened that it's all but certain he's not going heel Sunday. A shame. They're settling for someone who's clearly over with the crowd, but I feel, if they handled him better, he really could be a big star.

 

[JoeMallard]

Anybody can sell a lot of merch if they're product takes up 80% of the merch booth.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

That is literally one of the worst arguments ever presented. It has been shot down and disproved already multiple times because it's completely unoriginal and just plain dumb. But keep thinking that if you desire. My previous post was for those in this thread that had already brought the topic up and had no source to cite.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

It's ridiculous that you ignore multiple questions of mine. But continue.

Do you know why i have ignored multiple questions of yours? because you haven't answered one of mine throughout this discussion. If i'm able to get an intelligent discussion about this subject with someone and that they don't just bring in the same old boring points that all of Reigns haters have brought before, then i respond to them with a counter point but when you bring me stuff that pretty much every IWC fans have written and having a double standard for some stuff that i written, i don'T really have time to respond to that so unless you got something original and not bias to bring to the table, this will be my last reply to you on this subject. If you want to discuss the original point of my thread about the difference between live and tv tapings crowd i'm more then open to it but as far as reigns is concern this is the last time i reply to you on this.

Oh My God. Your point? I guess that I said that Roman Reigns is a babyface. You were the one saying that he's a tweener. Don't conveniently take sides. Roman Reigns is a babyface who fails to gets cheered. That's it. Read again what I already said and what you said.

I've you even read the last respond i left before replying to it, all i said was that he was over and was getting as much cheers then boos if that makes it a babyfaces then so be it. You really should learn to read and not take everything at face value.

Biggest pop? Wow. AJ Styles gets cheered because he's a respected wrestler. Something you obviously know but ignore it for convenience. A wrestler gets cheered as a sign of respect. When has a wrestler got booed as a sign of respect?

Yeah but does that mean he fail at his job of being a heel if the fans still cheer him because he's a respected wrestler. Do you know who else is a respected wrestler, Kevin Owens, Chris Jericho, neville and i could go on. These are three guys that are respected wrestlers by the fans and either are the hottest heels on the rosters or were at a time, Yet those guys were able to get fans to hates them even if the fans wanted to cheer for them, so if A.J was such a great heel, he would be able to turns the fans again him. He failed at that because the fans things that they're doing him a favor by cheering him because they respect what he'S done in the past. If they had that much respect for him, they would help him get over as a heel.

I do hear a significant cheering and massive booing as well. However I DO NEED TO GET MY EARS CHECKED. Thanks for telling me. Funny how you consider that no one cares for Dean Ambrose and he's massively over but I need to get my ears checked? Stop caring about my ears, I'll go to doctor soon.

By the way you we're replying to my posts, you didn'T seem like you hear it. you we're so focus on trying to be right that you weren't even able to admit that you were wrong on this point

So, if a babyface is getting booed, he isn't failure? Good to know whose logic is stupid.

Same as you're logic that if a heel is getting cheer, he isn'T a failure. You started this with you're double standard.

It's not about my likehood. It's about continuity. I won't mind even if my favorite loses but there needs to be a logical reason for it.

So you're telling me that anytime that reigns actually won a match, they're wasn't a logical reason for it? Really. Who's going to mania against taker who by the way probably pick him to face him at mania? Reigns is, so who needed a big win before mania, strowman or reigns? Reigns did. The fact that Strowman control 2/3 of the match made it such that both guys we're protected in this match especially the way reigns won and what it took to beat Strowman clean.

Build Strowman for more than 6 months and then feed him to Roman Reigns because Reigns should be the only one to get rubs?

Again just read my last point not going to repeat my point on this one, plus he got feed to taker more then he got feed to reigns a couple of weeks ago.

it's my opinion. Not someone's else. I have enough self-respect to possess my own opinion and not be a sheep just preaching whatever someone on Internet says. I could care less about what Meltzer thinks about it.

Good for you, i'm glad to read this because it didn'T seem like it reading some of yours point.

Like i wrote before, this thread wasn't started to go on about Reigns and how over or not over he his, it was about discussing about the difference between live event and tv crowd but i made a mistake of using Reigns name in my first post and got the haters on my case for it. I normally don'T use an article from the main site to prove my point about something but since they pretty wrote what i was talking about since the beginning anyway i going to post the link to the article on this post:

So here it Is: http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/821...gns-now-being-a-top-merchandise-seller-in-wwe

 

[ShinChan]

Do you know why i have ignored multiple questions of yours?

Yeah, you don't have answers.

because you haven't answered one of mine throughout this discussion.

Yeah, that's why I'm trying to answer your each point but I haven't answered any question of yours.

If i'm able to get an intelligent discussion about this subject with someone and that they don't just bring in the same old boring points that all of Reigns haters have brought before, then i respond to them with a counter point but when you bring me stuff that pretty much every IWC fans have written and having a double standard for some stuff that i written, i don'T really have time to respond to that so unless you got something original and not bias to bring to the table, this will be my last reply to you on this subject. If you want to discuss the original point of my thread about the difference between live and tv tapings crowd i'm more then open to it but as far as reigns is concern this is the last time i reply to you on this.

You replying me or not is your prerogative. I have no problem with it.

I've you even read the last respond i left before replying to it, all i said was that he was over and was getting as much cheers then boos if that makes it a babyfaces then so be it.

Oh, you mean to say that I misread.

You: Roman Reigns is a tweener. Also, he's a heel just like Triple H said because he's getting booed.

I: Roman Reigns is a babyface who gets cheered and booed as well.

You: He's a babyface. Crowd reactions doesn’t make him a heel. You're wrong.

I:

Also, you thought that Triple H would admit that Reigns failed as a face? Why would he do so?

You really should learn to read and not take everything at face value.

I will learn to read soon. I can counter with an insult but I won't stoop down like you.

Yeah but does that mean he fail at his job of being a heel if the fans still cheer him because he's a respected wrestler.

He does fail somewhat and he has himself admitted.

Do you know who else is a respected wrestler, Kevin Owens, Chris Jericho, neville and i could go on. These are three guys that are respected wrestlers by the fans and either are the hottest heels on the rosters or were at a time, Yet those guys were able to get fans to hates them even if the fans wanted to cheer for them,

Yeah, they are cheered as well. Doesn't make them babyfaces.

so if A.J was such a great heel, he would be able to turns the fans again him. He failed at that because the fans things that they're doing him a favor by cheering him because they respect what he'S done in the past.

Yeah, he ain't a great heel. Who said that he's one? He's respected for his more than decade long career.

If they had that much respect for him, they would help him get over as a heel.

Who booes someone as a matter of respect?

By the way you we're replying to my posts, you didn'T seem like you hear it. you we're so focus on trying to be right that you weren't even able to admit that you were wrong on this point

Right? Wrong? Wow. I'm discussing here. Not competing about who's right or wrong. I'm here to enjoy wrestling and discuss about it with others with due respect to their opinions. Unlike here, when you don't like a person's booking, YOU'RE A HATER.

Same as you're logic that if a heel is getting cheer, he isn'T a failure. You started this with you're double standard.

Double standard? If a face is getting booed a lot like Reigns, then he's a failure. If a heel is cheered a lot, he's a failure.

So you're telling me that anytime that reigns actually won a match, they're wasn't a logical reason for it? Really.

You seem to be very good on converting it with your convenience. I said that regardless of the talent being my favorite, I'll see if his win ir loss makes sense or not.

Who's going to mania against taker who by the way probably pick him to face him at mania? Reigns is, so who needed a big win before mania, strowman or reigns? Reigns did.

As if he hasn't had bunch of big wins already?

The fact that Strowman control 2/3 of the match made it such that both guys we're protected in this match especially the way reigns won and what it took to beat Strowman clean.

He beat Strowman clean who was built for more than 6 months as an unstoppable monster at a B-Level PPV like Fastlane. I would've criticised this booking even if my favorite did so.

Again just read my last point not going to repeat my point on this one,

No need.

plus he got feed to taker more then he got feed to reigns a couple of weeks ago.

Of course, now he's just a big guy. Before Fastlane, he was an unstoppable force.

Good for you, i'm glad to read this because it didn'T seem like it reading some of yours point.

That's because you assumed so.

Like i wrote before, this thread wasn't started to go on about Reigns and how over or not over he his, it was about discussing about the difference between live event and tv crowd but i made a mistake of using Reigns name in my first post and got the haters on my case for it.

So, you again referring me a Reigns hater? Good. I have said it earlier and I'll repeat it, Reigns ain't worthy of my hate. If I would've hated him, I would've never praised him. He's a very good talented wrestler. My problem ain't with him, as you think. It's with his booking. There's a big problem with Reigns' fans like you who try to imply that there can be only two fans. One who love Reigns and everything related as well. Other who hate Reigns. So, if I don't like Reigns' booking, I'm a hater? Lol. I don't belong in either category. So, try harder for another insult or taunt.

I normally don'T use an article from the main site to prove my point about something but since they pretty wrote what i was talking about since the beginning anyway i going to post the link to the article on this post:

So here it Is: http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/821...gns-now-being-a-top-merchandise-seller-in-wwe

Funny how you said that you are second type of fan who doesn't believe everything he reads. And first type of fans do read and believe Meltzer and then you give me an article whose source is Meltzer. Contradictory, I guess?

And I ain't saying that this report is true or false. I'll assume that it's true and be happy for Reigns' fans. If you like such booking, more power to you.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Yeah, you don't have answers.


Yeah, that's why I'm trying to answer your each point but I haven't answered any question of yours.


You replying me or not is your prerogative. I have no problem with it.


Oh, you mean to say that I misread.

You: Roman Reigns is a tweener. Also, he's a heel just like Triple H said because he's getting booed.

I: Roman Reigns is a babyface who gets cheered and booed as well.

You: He's a babyface. Crowd reactions doesn’t make him a heel. You're wrong.

I:

Also, you thought that Triple H would admit that Reigns failed as a face? Why would he do so?


I will learn to read soon. I can counter with an insult but I won't stoop down like you.


He does fail somewhat and he has himself admitted.


Yeah, they are cheered as well. Doesn't make them babyfaces.


Yeah, he ain't a great heel. Who said that he's one? He's respected for his more than decade long career.


Who booes someone as a matter of respect?


Right? Wrong? Wow. I'm discussing here. Not competing about who's right or wrong. I'm here to enjoy wrestling and discuss about it with others with due respect to their opinions. Unlike here, when you don't like a person's booking, YOU'RE A HATER.


Double standard? If a face is getting booed a lot like Reigns, then he's a failure. If a heel is cheered a lot, he's a failure.


You seem to be very good on converting it with your convenience. I said that regardless of the talent being my favorite, I'll see if his win ir loss makes sense or not.


As if he hasn't had bunch of big wins already?


He beat Strowman clean who was built for more than 6 months as an unstoppable monster at a B-Level PPV like Fastlane. I would've criticised this booking even if my favorite did so.


No need.


Of course, now he's just a big guy. Before Fastlane, he was an unstoppable force.


That's because you assumed so.


So, you again referring me a Reigns hater? Good. I have said it earlier and I'll repeat it, Reigns ain't worthy of my hate. If I would've hated him, I would've never praised him. He's a very good talented wrestler. My problem ain't with him, as you think. It's with his booking. There's a big problem with Reigns' fans like you who try to imply that there can be only two fans. One who love Reigns and everything related as well. Other who hate Reigns. So, if I don't like Reigns' booking, I'm a hater? Lol. I don't belong in either category. So, try harder for another insult or taunt.



Funny how you said that you are second type of fan who doesn't believe everything he reads. And first type of fans do read and believe Meltzer and then you give me an article whose source is Meltzer. Contradictory, I guess?

And I ain't saying that this report is true or false. I'll assume that it's true and be happy for Reigns' fans. If you like such booking, more power to you.

I found it funny how your the only one that is able to get a rise out of me when discussing wrestling. It nothing personal, it's just they we're 2 completly different type of fans and we really don't see wrestling the same way so it do makes for very pasionate discussion. The fact that we attack each others with insult doesn't help either. So what I propose is that we have a truce as far as this subject is concern. You agree to respect my opinion about reigns and I agree to accept your points.

To point is if I fell attack by somebody i tend to attack back which is we're my opinions tend to make no sense after a while. So for now, I probably stop discussing wrestling with you because it's not really worth getting angry over the difference of opinion since we seems like both of us makes no sense by the end of the discussions.

I still goig to read your stuff if you respond to my post because you got a really modern point of view on wrestling which is fun to read but it doesn't work well with my old school way of thinking so for now on I will probably reply more to people that don't have a iwc poit of view.

 

[ShinChan]

I found it funny how your the only one that is able to get a rise out of me when discussing wrestling. It nothing personal, it's just they we're 2 completly different type of fans and we really don't see wrestling the same way so it do makes for very pasionate discussion. The fact that we attack each others with insult doesn't help either. So what I propose is that we have a truce as far as this subject is concern. You agree to respect my opinion about reigns and I agree to accept your points.

To point is if I fell attack by somebody i tend to attack back which is we're my opinions tend to make no sense after a while. So for now, I probably stop discussing wrestling with you because it's not really worth getting angry over the difference of opinion since we seems like both of us makes no sense by the end of the discussions.

I still goig to read your stuff if you respond to my post because you got a really modern point of view on wrestling which is fun to read but it doesn't work well with my old school way of thinking so for now on I will probably reply more to people that don't have a iwc poit of view.

I don't know if I've ever attacked you or insulted you. Do tell me when you felt insulted because I'll try to improve myself.

I'm here for only two purposes one being WZCW and discussing about wrestling and go through various opinions of unknown people about wrestling. No offense from my side.

It's more about Roman Reigns between us. Let me clear you again that i have more problems with his booking instead of the wrestler himself.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Since this kinda goes with my original subject, i thought i would just post it here instead of doing a new thread.

I always been curious about how the peoples of this board started watching wrestling and in what era. It always intrigue me because sometimes you tend to react to a comment somebody makes and really makes some assumption that because they talk like a mark, they might not have watch wrestling before the attitude era. So i thought it would be fun to post when we started watching wrestling and what kinda of fans we are.

Personally, i've been a WWE fans since the late 1980's that probably why i like certains characters more then others now and i still think like a old school wrestling fans because a lot of the current product reminds me of the good old days of good guys vs back guys and that even through you thought the heel we're better, you would boo him anyway because you want the hero to win. Back then for those that remember, we got all the backstage news from either the magazine or the hotline. I wouldn't call the hotline because i was smart enough to know that this was just a cash crab but it would buy all the wrestling magazine i could find. i think what was fun back then with the product was outside the fact that you didn't have as much T.V. and ppv, that you have know was that the fans we're really engage into what they we're given. The fact also that TV was almost all squash matches help at the time. So, personally that's why i love watching somebody like a roman reigns or cena and i'm not a huge fans of the smaller guys because that what i grew up watching, For me guys like reigns and Cena look the part of a wrestler while guys like finn balor and tye dillinger look more like mid card guys. No offense to those that like these guys but cruiserweight guys never look to me like they belong in the main event. If you don't look or have the charisma that guys like bret hart or shawn michaels had then i don'T see why you should be place in a main event position.

So that's me more or less, that's why sometimes i tend to really not see eye to eye with more current fans when discussing wrestling because i still see the performers like i saw them back in the days but that just me. So if somebody else want to write about this, feel free to do it here.

 

[sikkbones]

Since this kinda goes with my original subject, i thought i would just post it here instead of doing a new thread.

I always been curious about how the peoples of this board started watching wrestling and in what era. It always intrigue me because sometimes you tend to react to a comment somebody makes and really makes some assumption that because they talk like a mark, they might not have watch wrestling before the attitude era. So i thought it would be fun to post when we started watching wrestling and what kinda of fans we are.

Personally, i've been a WWE fans since the late 1980's that probably why i like certains characters more then others now and i still think like a old school wrestling fans because a lot of the current product reminds me of the good old days of good guys vs back guys and that even through you thought the heel we're better, you would boo him anyway because you want the hero to win. Back then for those that remember, we got all the backstage news from either the magazine or the hotline. I wouldn't call the hotline because i was smart enough to know that this was just a cash crab but it would buy all the wrestling magazine i could find. i think what was fun back then with the product was outside the fact that you didn't have as much T.V. and ppv, that you have know was that the fans we're really engage into what they we're given. The fact also that TV was almost all squash matches help at the time. So, personally that's why i love watching somebody like a roman reigns or cena and i'm not a huge fans of the smaller guys because that what i grew up watching, For me guys like reigns and Cena look the part of a wrestler while guys like finn balor and tye dillinger look more like mid card guys. No offense to those that like these guys but cruiserweight guys never look to me like they belong in the main event. If you don't look or have the charisma that guys like bret hart or shawn michaels had then i don'T see why you should be place in a main event position.

So that's me more or less, that's why sometimes i tend to really not see eye to eye with more current fans when discussing wrestling because i still see the performers like i saw them back in the days but that just me. So if somebody else want to write about this, feel free to do it here.

Re your comment about the smaller guys, this, so much this... The main event in Toronto was basilly Joe, hhh and 4 midgets.

While valor has it coming to the ring... Esp with the valor club intro, I didn't connect with him the way the larger guys and Jericho did.

Same goes for Owens.