The differrence between a live event crowd and a TV crowd

[Psykohurricane55]

I just went to a WWE live event last night and coming out of it, i realise that the crowd reacted more like a normal wrestling crowd then when WWE tapes Raw or Smackdown. So this got me thinking, what makes a t.v crowd different from a live event crowd?

I'm guessing the first thing is that it'S not the same type of fans that goes to live event, so their going to cheer for the babyface and boo the heels because that's what suppose to happens.
On that front, the one thing that i realize after the event was that one way or the other, Roman Reigns will always be a tweener. Even if you turn him heel, you're just going to change who hates him and who likes him, so better off keep him on the path he'S in right now because he seems like a very nice guy. Out of all the wrestlers last night, he's the one that stop the signs the most autographs and take the most sellfies with fans after his match which was a cool gesture on his part.

Anyway, the tv crowd i think want the show the revolve around them, they know that the cameras are on so they will cheer or boo for whoever they want, chant stupid chant for the sake of it. It's not the best crowd to have when your trying to attract new fans but it'S fun to watch those guys make fools out of themselves and it makes the show more entertaining.

In the end, i'm always going to be more partial to go to a live events over a tv taping because the energy isn't the same. I could sit through a 3 hour taping of Raw but i can sit through 3 hour of a live events.

So i don't know if you guys find like me that their a difference between the 2 crowds but feel free to discuss this.

 

[Navi]

We don't get many TV crowds here in Toronto, simply because there aren't that many televised events, but even I have noticed a difference.

The biggest difference is the demographic of attendees. At a live show you'll find mostly mom's and kids. I think it's simply because the shows are usually held in smaller venues, ticket prices here start at $20.00 and all the seats are good, especially at the Ricoh. It's a small arena on the Exhibition Grounds and holds about 10,000 people, a lot smaller than the Air Canada Centre which is not far away. Also take into account the shows at the Ricoh are held on Friday and Saturday night, the Sunday show is always an early start. Probably because of work and school the next day.

Live shows are geared towards this crowd, the face usually always wins and the heel is boo'd heavily. The kids grasp the good guy, guy bad guy notion. These shows are short on promo's, thank God, and the two hours usually pass pretty quickly.

The hard core crowd will splash out the big money to attend a PPV or RAW taping at the ACC. They are the ones who are part of the IWC, and will boo and cheer whoever they want, heel or face. They can be a bit more obnoxious and it shows on TV very well. But someone with 3 kids won't spend $200.00 a ticket for a good seat at the ACC, they'll go to the live show instead.

The TV tapings are long on promo's and short on wrestling. Even though in both cases the endings are pretty much known in advance, the TV shows are there to further the storyline. Live shows just entertain the crowd. I like both to tell you the truth, the dynamic is an interesting one.

As for Reigns, some of you will just have to get used to the fact that there are people out there who just don't like the guy. Everyone you speak too will have a different reason, but you can't make someone like someone just because you do. For a long time I was the only one in the Cesaro section here on the forum. Doesn't matter, I respect the fact that others don't think he's all that great, don't make me like him any the less. Each to their own I suppose.

 

[nightmare]

The difference between house shows and live TV crowds is that the TV crowd gets the distinct honor of having their negative reaction to Roman Reigns edited out of future broadcasts.

Vince McMahon has the power to bend time and space. There totally have never been any rabid wolverines or really tan balding maniacs running wild in his company. When Roman is inducted into the HOF as a 22 time champion, there will be no such record anyone spoke ill of our beloved Samoan Superhero. Canned applause is still applause in his book.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

The difference between house shows and live TV crowds is that the TV crowd gets the distinct honor of having their negative reaction to Roman Reigns edited out of future broadcasts.

Vince McMahon has the power to bend time and space. There totally have never been any rabid wolverines or really tan balding maniacs running wild in his company. When Roman is inducted into the HOF as a 22 time champion, there will be no such record anyone spoke ill of our beloved Samoan Superhero. Canned applause is still applause in his book.

Your right but vince as less and less editing out to do because reigns is finally in the tweener spot that cena use to be and he only have to take 50% of the crowd out of tv broadcast because in most market, reigns has as much supporters as he got haters. I went to a live event last friday and the reaction for the guy was something I haven't experience since cena was in his tweener phase, it was such and electric moment and wwe would dumb to not capitalize on this, because the hatred for reigns as become something that even wwe didn't expect, a cool back in forth chant for fan to chant at event.

 

[sikkbones]

Roman is over at live events with casual fans and kids,

See also most recent reaction at ricoh

But had it been a raw or ppv the reaction would have been diffrent.

 

[Navi]

Your right but vince as less and less editing out to do because reigns is finally in the tweener spot that cena use to be and he only have to take 50% of the crowd out of tv broadcast because in most market, reigns has as much supporters as he got haters. I went to a live event last friday and the reaction for the guy was something I haven't experience since cena was in his tweener phase, it was such and electric moment and wwe would dumb to not capitalize on this, because the hatred for reigns as become something that even wwe didn't expect, a cool back in forth chant for fan to chant at event.

I would argue that Reigns is finally in the tweener spot that Cena used to be in. As much as Cena gets boo'd fans respect his wrestling and mic abilities which are second to none. Reigns is a long way behind. Cena took most of last year off and still outsold the rest of the roster in merchandise sales.

You can't compare crowd reaction to Reigns as you do Cena. Reigns is legit not liked, Cena is, fans for the most part that I've spoke too find his gimmick stale, but they have great respect for him as a person and wrestler. Reigns not so much.

Roman is over at live events with casual fans and kids,

See also most recent reaction at ricoh

But had it been a raw or ppv the reaction would have been diffrent.

The moms and kiddies love Reigns, and he always gets a cheer. Not on the level of a Daniel Bryan or John Cena, but it is mostly positive at the Ricoh. At the ACC year different story. He was boo'd out of Survivor Series.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

Smarks/IWC tend to not go to house shows because nothing of consequence ever occurs. They'd rather wait for the next RAW/SD or PPV to come to town.

Also, house shows are cheaper, so a family of four can attend a untaped WWE show for half as much as if they got those same seats at a RAW.

So to answer your question, house shows get more families, and RAW/SD or PPVs get more hard-core fans.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

I would argue that Reigns is finally in the tweener spot that Cena used to be in. As much as Cena gets boo'd fans respect his wrestling and mic abilities which are second to none. Reigns is a long way behind. Cena took most of last year off and still outsold the rest of the roster in merchandise sales.

You can't compare crowd reaction to Reigns as you do Cena. Reigns is legit not liked, Cena is, fans for the most part that I've spoke too find his gimmick stale, but they have great respect for him as a person and wrestler. Reigns not so much.

If you would have given this argument a year ago, i would have been 100% behind you on this because last year at the same time, Reigns was hated and that hatred was real. But alot as change within the year and for some strange reason, alot of fans that used to truly hate reigns found a way to respect him for his ring work which as been truly remarkable last year's mania. I heard it a lot on tv and PPV that type of reaction with him we're fans would boo him during the entrance, start the dueling chant during is match and actually cheer for him after his match was over. I thought maybe they are doing something with the audio to make it seem like a change of heart as happenned during the match but then i went to the live events in montreal, and as you guy know, outside of toronto, montreal is probably the most vocal crowd in canada, and the same thing happenned, Regins wrestled samoa Joe on the card some fans started to boo reigns during his entrance, then dueling chant happenned throuout the match and when reigns won the match by DQ and got his revenge on show by hitting him with a spear the place erupted. So that why i think that he'S slowly growing into that john cena spot.

Plus has far as merchandise sales are concern, from the last numbers that came out earlier this months, it's seems like Reigns is pretty much out selling everybody on the rosters except for Cena so he'S a solid number 2 in sales way in front of everybody else so for some reason, i think that if they don't screw up again with him, they could get a solid replacement for cena in about a year or 2.

 

[Jericho91]

So this got me thinking, what makes a t.v crowd different from a live event crowd?

If you actually attended RAW every Monday night live ... You would realize that whenever Roman Reigns shows up he's boo'd to death by the audience. Unfortunately, since both us watch it in the comfort of our homes ... What we are actually watching is a taped version of Raw which is what Vince wants you to see/hear. Those Boo's will be muted by the production team. I know it's LIVE and not entirely taped, but there's a 60 second delay of LIVE TV that Vince does. Vince is a control freak. It's horrible.

 

[Navi]

If you would have given this argument a year ago, i would have been 100% behind you on this because last year at the same time, Reigns was hated and that hatred was real. But alot as change within the year and for some strange reason, alot of fans that used to truly hate reigns found a way to respect him for his ring work which as been truly remarkable last year's mania. I heard it a lot on tv and PPV that type of reaction with him we're fans would boo him during the entrance, start the dueling chant during is match and actually cheer for him after his match was over. I thought maybe they are doing something with the audio to make it seem like a change of heart as happenned during the match but then i went to the live events in montreal, and as you guy know, outside of toronto, montreal is probably the most vocal crowd in canada, and the same thing happenned, Regins wrestled samoa Joe on the card some fans started to boo reigns during his entrance, then dueling chant happenned throuout the match and when reigns won the match by DQ and got his revenge on show by hitting him with a spear the place erupted. So that why i think that he'S slowly growing into that john cena spot.

Plus has far as merchandise sales are concern, from the last numbers that came out earlier this months, it's seems like Reigns is pretty much out selling everybody on the rosters except for Cena so he'S a solid number 2 in sales way in front of everybody else so for some reason, i think that if they don't screw up again with him, they could get a solid replacement for cena in about a year or 2.

I think you are mistaking the difference between the person and the wrestler here. People don't hate Roman Reigns as a person, there is no hatred at all. They dislike the wrestling gimmick, it's totally different thing. A lot of people don't like Cena for the same reason, they think his gimmick is stale, but it sells to the kids in the audience, they have great respect for him as a person. Listen we're stuck with Reigns for the long haul. I'm not happy about it, I think he's boring as shit and a heel turn won't change that. I still don't like his gimmick and he's ruined any Shield reunion for me that will ever happen.

You keep going on about Reigns being number two in sales, where are you getting this from. I've seen nothing that says that. They don't release those numbers. It's sad that a wrestler is pushed because of how much t-shirts he sells, but it's all about the money isn't it.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

I think you are mistaking the difference between the person and the wrestler here. People don't hate Roman Reigns as a person, there is no hatred at all. They dislike the wrestling gimmick, it's totally different thing. A lot of people don't like Cena for the same reason, they think his gimmick is stale, but it sells to the kids in the audience, they have great respect for him as a person. Listen we're stuck with Reigns for the long haul. I'm not happy about it, I think he's boring as shit and a heel turn won't change that. I still don't like his gimmick and he's ruined any Shield reunion for me that will ever happen.

You keep going on about Reigns being number two in sales, where are you getting this from. I've seen nothing that says that. They don't release those numbers. It's sad that a wrestler is pushed because of how much t-shirts he sells, but it's all about the money isn't it.

I think it was either pwinsider or the wrestling observer newsletter that release the latest number as far as merchandise sales we're concern, I don't really remember which one was mention in the article I've read on another website but it was from one of those 2 sites that reported it.

As far as the gimmick, is concern, I think that their no real difference between reigns the person and reigns the wrestlers. The guy did earn alot of respect from the fans that used to hate him because of the hard work he put into becoming a better wrestlers and develpping his character. If you would have told me that I would be a fan of reigns rights now a year ago, I would have laugh in your face. But I became a fan of his in the last couple of months because he's finally became what he should have been all along as a character. But I think that nobody truly hates wrestlers based on their gimmick, I think wrestling fans especially the smart fans will start to hate somebody if it's not the guy they want to get the push but don't really understand how the business actually work especially in wwe we're the more money you are able to draw for the company, the bigger the push will be for the wrestlers. That the reality of the thing with wwe. So like it or not, we are stuck with reigns in this tweener role for a log time.

 

[Navi]

I think it was either pwinsider or the wrestling observer newsletter that release the latest number as far as merchandise sales we're concern, I don't really remember which one was mention in the article I've read on another website but it was from one of those 2 sites that reported it.

As far as the gimmick, is concern, I think that their no real difference between reigns the person and reigns the wrestlers. The guy did earn alot of respect from the fans that used to hate him because of the hard work he put into becoming a better wrestlers and develpping his character. If you would have told me that I would be a fan of reigns rights now a year ago, I would have laugh in your face. But I became a fan of his in the last couple of months because he's finally became what he should have been all along as a character. But I think that nobody truly hates wrestlers based on their gimmick, I think wrestling fans especially the smart fans will start to hate somebody if it's not the guy they want to get the push but don't really understand how the business actually work especially in wwe we're the more money you are able to draw for the company, the bigger the push will be for the wrestlers. That the reality of the thing with wwe. So like it or not, we are stuck with reigns in this tweener role for a log time.

I'll check out those website's you mentioned and see what I can find then.

As for Reigns I have to ask what character are you taking about? To me I see him as a member of the now defunct Shield. He still uses the same music, tweaked a little, same outfit, the only thing that changed is he now uses the ramp instead of coming through the crowd. He hasn't developed anything new compared to the other two Shield members, who went off in completely different directions. It's almost like they are scared to take that away from him.

Let's face it Reigns is where is is for two reasons, his looks and his family connections. If he looked like James Ellsworth, he'd be nowhere, am I right? Vince has pushed this guy to the moon and you know what he can because it's his company. Just because I'm not a fan who gives a crap, I'm not buying his merchandise and won't go see a live show if it's a RAW event. Didn't go to the last one a couple of weeks ago.

Another thing I've always wondered is this. Reigns cousin is the Rock, the highest paid star in Hollywood today. With Reigns look's and the Rock backing him, why hasn't he ever been approached to do movies. Countless other's on the roster from Orton, HHH, Summer Rae, Miz and more have all made feature films. Have the Rock as your cousin has to count for something right? As far as I can see he hasn't even made a WWE movie yet. What are they waiting for since this guy is so wonderful?

 

[itbewilly]

I think the house show crowds are much better because the wrestlers are allowed to be more interactive and less controlled with the live shows vs the t.v taping. The t.v taping have so many marks that have to be hit and so much stuff that has to be on target.

Outside of the only ECW T.v Taping when it aired on TNN before Raw moved there for a few months and bumped them Any house shows have always been by far more entertaining and enjoyable to me over any raw/smackdown or ppv event. Less control and more freedom for the talents to entertain the fans.

 

[ShinChan]

I'll check out those website's you mentioned and see what I can find then.

As for Reigns I have to ask what character are you taking about? To me I see him as a member of the now defunct Shield. He still uses the same music, tweaked a little, same outfit, the only thing that changed is he now uses the ramp instead of coming through the crowd. He hasn't developed anything new compared to the other two Shield members, who went off in completely different directions. It's almost like they are scared to take that away from him.

Let's face it Reigns is where is is for two reasons, his looks and his family connections. If he looked like James Ellsworth, he'd be nowhere, am I right? Vince has pushed this guy to the moon and you know what he can because it's his company. Just because I'm not a fan who gives a crap, I'm not buying his merchandise and won't go see a live show if it's a RAW event. Didn't go to the last one a couple of weeks ago.

Another thing I've always wondered is this. Reigns cousin is the Rock, the highest paid star in Hollywood today. With Reigns look's and the Rock backing him, why hasn't he ever been approached to do movies. Countless other's on the roster from Orton, HHH, Summer Rae, Miz and more have all made feature films. Have the Rock as your cousin has to count for something right? As far as I can see he hasn't even made a WWE movie yet. What are they waiting for since this guy is so wonderful?

You know what Vince would say about Roman Reigns to you?

DEAL WITH IT. I'M GONNA DO WHATEVER I LIKE. YOU NEED TO DEAL WITH IT. NOT ME.

Just like a fan of Roman Reigns said below: (Don't miss the bold part)

So like it or not, we are stuck with reigns in this tweener role for a log time.

I've been dealing with it as well. Just maybe I will stop caring after Wrestlemania 33 if it continues like this.

This is the attitude that sways a person against Reigns. I don't know about you, Navi but Wrestlemania 33 will indeed be the last time for me if it continues like this.

About everything almost similar to Shield, I think that it's related to Shield being very over and thus Reigns being cheered for it as it's the best stable of this decade. WWE is indeed scared to take that away from him.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

HHH said it the best when ask about reigns. Reigns is the most over guy on the roster outside of the part timers. THe reactions he gets good or bad is super loud in every arena tv or live event.

Also, about how fans wants wwe to turn reigns heel, hhh said that if fans says that 70% of the crowd is booeing reigns then to them he's a heel and I tend to agree with him.

We live in a society we're you can have clear cut babyface and heel anymore, the fans do create who his a heel and who is a face even if the characters don't act like what a babyface or heel.

Like I said, reigns is the more guy on the roster right now and they ar making a ton of money with him so unless fans just stop reacting, he's set at the main event level for liife.

 

[Navi]

You know what Vince would say about Roman Reigns to you?

DEAL WITH IT. I'M GONNA DO WHATEVER I LIKE. YOU NEED TO DEAL WITH IT. NOT ME.

Just like a fan of Roman Reigns said below: (Don't miss the bold part)



I've been dealing with it as well. Just maybe I will stop caring after Wrestlemania 33 if it continues like this.

This is the attitude that sways a person against Reigns. I don't know about you, Navi but Wrestlemania 33 will indeed be the last time for me if it continues like this.

About everything almost similar to Shield, I think that it's related to Shield being very over and thus Reigns being cheered for it as it's the best stable of this decade. WWE is indeed scared to take that away from him.

Agreed, I might just stop watching RAW or SD Live if they move him there myself.

HHH said it the best when ask about reigns. Reigns is the most over guy on the roster outside of the part timers. THe reactions he gets good or bad is super loud in every arena tv or live event.

Also, about how fans wants wwe to turn reigns heel, hhh said that if fans says that 70% of the crowd is booeing reigns then to them he's a heel and I tend to agree with him.

We live in a society we're you can have clear cut babyface and heel anymore, the fans do create who his a heel and who is a face even if the characters don't act like what a babyface or heel.

Like I said, reigns is the more guy on the roster right now and they ar making a ton of money with him so unless fans just stop reacting, he's set at the main event level for liife.

I stopped reacting a long time ago, maybe time everyone did the same. So much for audience participation.

Oh and no one answered my question about him doing movies, or is it just that obvious, the guy can't act. Considering that being a professional wrestler is playing a role and working a gimmick, makes you wonder then doesn't it.

 

[ShinChan]

Agreed, I might just stop watching RAW or SD Live if they move him there myself.



I stopped reacting a long time ago, maybe time everyone did the same. So much for audience participation.

Oh and no one answered my question about him doing movies, or is it just that obvious, the guy can't act. Considering that being a professional wrestler is playing a role and working a gimmick, makes you wonder then doesn't it.

I'll stop reacting and cheering after Wrestlemania 33 if Roman Reigns defeats The Undertaker clean without anything regarding a heel turn.

Maybe the guy can't act. Or maybe WWE or rather Vince doesn't want him to take time off. Even Dean Ambrose has been in a WWE movie.

Also, I saw a report which said that the angle with The Undertaker at this week's Raw was rehearsed beforehand and Roman Reigns' photo was posted as well where he was shown speaking in the ring. Kudos to them for trying.

 

[nightmare]

Your right but vince as less and less editing out to do because reigns is finally in the tweener spot that cena use to be and he only have to take 50% of the crowd out of tv broadcast because in most market, reigns has as much supporters as he got haters. I went to a live event last friday and the reaction for the guy was something I haven't experience since cena was in his tweener phase, it was such and electric moment and wwe would dumb to not capitalize on this, because the hatred for reigns as become something that even wwe didn't expect, a cool back in forth chant for fan to chant at event.

When Roman beats Taker, his heat will go up 10 fold. Especially if he is the last match Taker has.

JFTR pretty much nailed the topic though. May as well close the thread.

 

[Jericho91]

Oh and no one answered my question about him doing movies, or is it just that obvious, the guy can't act. Considering that being a professional wrestler is playing a role and working a gimmick, makes you wonder then doesn't it.

You just answered your own question. The guy can't act. On Television he simply sucks and bores the entire audience to death. Otherwise we wouldn't be hearing too many boo's come out of the fans mouth on a weekly basis.

In WrestleMania it's just going to get a hella lot worse. Let's not forget that the crowd itself is PG so whatever happens in WrestleMania it can never get so bad that a Riot happens.

This isn't ECW from the 90's where the audience will really call it how they see it. We're talking about a PG fanbase of WWE that makes up most of the crowd in these WWE Arenas.

They weren't built for Riots and that will never happen with crowds such as those. The worst that can happen to Roman is him get Boo'd the hell out of WrestleMania if he pins Taker 1, 2, 3.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

I'll stop reacting and cheering after Wrestlemania 33 if Roman Reigns defeats The Undertaker clean without anything regarding a heel turn.

Maybe the guy can't act. Or maybe WWE or rather Vince doesn't want him to take time off. Even Dean Ambrose has been in a WWE movie.

Also, I saw a report which said that the angle with The Undertaker at this week's Raw was rehearsed beforehand and Roman Reigns' photo was posted as well where he was shown speaking in the ring. Kudos to them for trying.

Why would you want a heel turn for reigns really, from what i'm seeing right now, he'S already a heel to alot of fans anyway. You really don'T need to have a clear traditional heel turn for i'm, just let him be the character that he's been for the last couple of months. I'm actually starting to love his work since he turn into this cocky tweener heel character that he'S been doing, it's how he should have been booked all along in my opinion, so i say let him be a tweener character, he'S great at it and you going to make a ton of money with him anyway.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Things are a lot more "fun" at Houseshows than the TV events, let's face it they are WWE's core business. There is more security, more restriction on what the crowd can do, wear as the TV HAS to go well.

The house show events are fun and a "bonus" in a way for the company and talent. I used to work at the NEC in Birmingham (UK) and thus was able to pick my tickets last time I went... I got a GREAT seat for £10 on the day (with staff discount but only would have been £15) about 7 rows up from ringside bang in the middle of the ring view...which meant I was high enough to see the ramp AND the full ring without anyones head in the way... The kids could all run to the barrier when the entrances happened, it was a lot looser. The workers were having fun, the fans had more fun... the experience was great all round - akin to going to a local show.

To get to a TV taping you'd have to book within minutes of it being on sale, or pay silly money... then have to get in, be wearing the right T-Shirt, have your sign checked that it's OK for TV...all that stuff does translate to your experience as a fan... you expect more cos it cost more/was harder to get tix for, if you've had to deal with added security or been told to take your retro shirt off or seen that happen then it'll colour your attitude.

If you feel the show isn't delivering, you'll be more vocal. Now times that by the whole crowd and you can see why TV crowds can be "tough" crowds.

 

[Jericho91]

HHH said it the best when ask about reigns. Reigns is the most over guy on the roster outside of the part timers. THe reactions he gets good or bad is super loud in every arena tv or live event.

Are you letting HHH run your mind over ?

The truth is Roman Reigns is barely connecting with the fans. You can't say he's the most over guy. That's the most ridiculous statement anyone can ever make. There's concrete evidence to the contrary. Triple H knows this but in front of a camera while being interviewed by media ofcourse he's going to come up with any cheap excuse for the sake of answering the question instead of ducking or dancing around it.

As far as SUPER LOUD arenas go. I don't know if you know this but it gets real super loud when Reigns gets slammed around by Brawn Strowman. That's the only time it's ever relevant to discuss about an arena being SUPER LOUD.

Why would you want a heel turn for reigns really, from what i'm seeing right now, he'S already a heel to alot of fans anyway. You really don'T need to have a clear traditional heel turn for i'm, just let him be the character that he's been for the last couple of months. I'm actually starting to love his work since he turn into this cocky tweener heel character that he'S been doing, it's how he should have been booked all along in my opinion, so i say let him be a tweener character, he'S great at it and you going to make a ton of money with him anyway.

By that train of thought, the company will never evolve. The product is for the fans. Not the other way around.

If Vince proceeds to shove his personal favorite superstars down people's throats then it's bad for business and viewership decline is clearly evident.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Are you letting HHH run your mind over ?

The truth is Roman Reigns is barely connecting with the fans. You can't say he's the most over guy. That's the most ridiculous statement anyone can ever make. There's concrete evidence to the contrary. Triple H knows this but in front of a camera while being interviewed by media ofcourse he's going to come up with any cheap excuse for the sake of answering the question instead of ducking or dancing around it.

As far as SUPER LOUD arenas go. I don't know if you know this but it gets real super loud when Reigns gets slammed around by Brawn Strowman. That's the only time it's ever relevant to discuss about an arena being SUPER LOUD.

So if there's concret evidence to the contrary like you wrote, prove it, show me those concret proof that your talking about that the guy isn't the most over guy in the company. The fact is, this is a common smart mark comment. If you look at the match he had with braun at fastlane, who got most of the cheers at the end of that match? Roman Reigns. Plus during that same match and most of his match since the beginning of the year, you can clearly hear the famous dueling chant of ''let'S go roman, Roman Sucks'' so if that'S not being over i guess that i don'T know what is and i'm Probably out of touch with the current product

By that train of thought, the company will never evolve. The product is for the fans. Not the other way around.

If Vince proceeds to shove his personal favorite superstars down people's throats then it's bad for business and viewership decline is clearly evident.

This pretty much prove how much you knows about how the business works, Really have you been the a WWE event (live or tv tapings) this pass year? Because i had, and let me tell you something, for a guy like roman reigns to get a positive pop like he did when he speared Samoa Joe after his match at the live event i went to last friday, you have to be over with the crowd.

The fact is yes the product is for the fans like you wrote, but the fact that some of you are still hung up on the fact that Reigns is Vince McMahon pick to be the face of the company is ridiculous. Right now, he'S the most over guy in the company, nobody outside of cena gets a reaction positive or negative as loud as Reigns does in every market around the world, plus the guy does sell alot of merchandise, so why would you stop pushing a guy that'S really seem like he connecting with a lot of fans in a good or bad way?

So in closing, please answer me this, who would you want them to shove down peoples throat instead of roman? Who could get that type of reaction from the fan and would move as much merchandise as roman does. Sometimes i think some of you fans are to busy watching the ratings that wwe does and don'T realise that'S they're more then ratings to make WWE successful

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The issue is that they shove people down throats rather than allow the ones who organically get popular to be the top guys... The Rock, Austin.. Bret Hart... none started off the intended guy yet all did really strong business and became the most over of their times... The ones WWE tried to force, like Warrior, Diesel, Luger, Shawn (first reign) didn't work...

The problem they have is that it's obvious why people get "that pick" and generally fans don't like it... they buy into being "told" who is face and heel, but as proven by the Bryan situation and more recently with the way Wyatt has face like reactions with the "firefly" entrance etc... is cos the fans want to decide and choose who gets the push rather than merch numbers, demographics, marketing or being Rock's cousin...

Even when Bryan was over to the point his NOT being in the Rumble was making world news, they still didn't plan to put him in the Mania match... it was only when it became apparant that the Mania crowd would take it into their own hands and shit on the whole show that they relented and gave Bryan his moment, and breathed a sigh of relief when he was hurt.

There is no ONE guy it should be built about... the most successful era of recent times was The Attitude Era and just after, why? Cos WWE successfully created new, legit over main eventers for nearly 10 years straight... starting with Austin and going through Rock, Foley, Trips, Angle, Jericho, Kane, Big Show, Lesnar, Eddie, Benoit, Orton, Cena, Batista, Edge, Punk, Jeff and finally ending around 2007.All of those were allowed to get over on their own - Cena was then taken to be the "poster child"... since then, no one has been allowed to organically get over until Bryan...and they had to do it... they never wanted to.

So when fans don't like Roman, it's not personal to him... it's just that they probably genuinely would rather see Owens, Jericho, Ambrose, Rollins or another guy given the chance, rather than it being so blatantly "We must have Roiman because he's our marketing future..." It's not fans roles to care about merch sales or who looks good to a public company...and the reality is, WWE can't shove people down throats too much longer... cos no one is getting over properly from it... not even their pick. That means the company is in danger!

 

[Psykohurricane55]

The issue is that they shove people down throats rather than allow the ones who organically get popular to be the top guys... The Rock, Austin.. Bret Hart... none started off the intended guy yet all did really strong business and became the most over of their times... The ones WWE tried to force, like Warrior, Diesel, Luger, Shawn (first reign) didn't work...

The problem they have is that it's obvious why people get "that pick" and generally fans don't like it... they buy into being "told" who is face and heel, but as proven by the Bryan situation and more recently with the way Wyatt has face like reactions with the "firefly" entrance etc... is cos the fans want to decide and choose who gets the push rather than merch numbers, demographics, marketing or being Rock's cousin...

Even when Bryan was over to the point his NOT being in the Rumble was making world news, they still didn't plan to put him in the Mania match... it was only when it became apparant that the Mania crowd would take it into their own hands and shit on the whole show that they relented and gave Bryan his moment, and breathed a sigh of relief when he was hurt.

There is no ONE guy it should be built about... the most successful era of recent times was The Attitude Era and just after, why? Cos WWE successfully created new, legit over main eventers for nearly 10 years straight... starting with Austin and going through Rock, Foley, Trips, Angle, Jericho, Kane, Big Show, Lesnar, Eddie, Benoit, Orton, Cena, Batista, Edge, Punk, Jeff and finally ending around 2007.All of those were allowed to get over on their own - Cena was then taken to be the "poster child"... since then, no one has been allowed to organically get over until Bryan...and they had to do it... they never wanted to.

So when fans don't like Roman, it's not personal to him... it's just that they probably genuinely would rather see Owens, Jericho, Ambrose, Rollins or another guy given the chance, rather than it being so blatantly "We must have Roiman because he's our marketing future..." It's not fans roles to care about merch sales or who looks good to a public company...and the reality is, WWE can't shove people down throats too much longer... cos no one is getting over properly from it... not even their pick. That means the company is in danger!

i'm not going to really argue with what you'Re wrote because for the most part, i think you're about pretty much everything except for maybe The warrior push not working or WWE didn't to put Bryan in the mania main event but outside of that, i agree with you 100%

But what got my attention is the last phrase you wrote. WWE will never be in danger because there always going to be fans that want to bitch and moan on the internet that they don'T like what WWE is doing or who they are pushing but will still continue to watch their product so that they can bitch and moan on the internet after. They're also the family aspect of the company that will always be there and does comprise a good portion of their fanbase and merchandise sale. If you remember back in the 80's before the attitude era, they we're building characters the same way they do today and it was a really profitable era. If that formula wouldn't have worked, WWE wouldn'T be there today.

My other problem is that's for some fans that are mad about Reigns beings shove down their throat but when one of their favorite get the same treatment like Finn Balor did last year, it'S o.k. because they like the guy. So i think their always going to be a double standard with internet fans about who can be shove down fans throat and who can't.

Also i think that fans need to realise, that WWE isn'T the same company it was during the attitude era or hogan era, it's a publicly traded company now and Vince as alot of peoples to answer too now which is a big problem creatively. You can't take risk anymore like you could back then because one small mistake and it's over. If somebody is able to make money for the company, you go and push hard on him even if a segment of the fans don't like it. The reason Reigns gets push like he does is simply because of money, just like Cena, aj styles and seth rollins, it as nothing to do with the in ring stuff. That's also the reason why they put a stop to bryan push at the time, because as popular as he was, he wasn't generating money for them so they stop pushing him, if you don'T believe me, go read Daniel bryan's book, he wrote it in his book. Also if you think that WWE is happy when main event talent is getting injured, it's not knowing the guys that works in WWE. Why would they be happy that somebody like daniel bryan, who was making them money at the time of his injury, got injured? Really, that just weird thinking in my opinion. If they didn'T care about Bryan's health, they would have just release him from his contract and said ''do what you want, we don'T care if you get paralysed in the ring''. They wouldn'T have offer him a job as GM of smackdown, They wouldn'T have given him air time on Raw for his retirement speech.

Sometimes, i think that fans kinda take what is reported on the internet to seriously. i really would love to be able to go back in time to the 80'S when wrestling fans just enjoyed the product and didn't care about all the backstage bullsh**t and what'S reported on the internet. For me, the attiude era had both positive and negative. Yes it created a lot of stars but it also brought in the end of keyfabe and that hurt more the product then anything the WWE can do right now.