Sin Cara officially makes his debut on Raw.

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Mrs Drizzy <3
So Sin Cara officially made his debut of Raw tonight and i was very impressed with his performance. It has been a while since a wrestler has made me smile with their performance and thats just what Sin Cara did tonight. I was very impressed with his high flying and even though its too early to say i believe Sin Cara can and will be better and will have a bigger legacy than Rey Meysterio in the WWE. If Sin Cara continues to perform like he did tonight every week he is well on his way on becoming a favourite of mine.

What did you think of his performance tonight on Raw?
 
Okay, NOW you guys can scream BOTCH. Because the finish was shitty. Mistico looked like a spot monkey, fucking up, and then just redoing the spot, complete with the kick set up.

his finish is contrived as hell too. doesn't make any sense. he needs a better finish. I can't see the American audience getting into it. The FU at least makes sense as a move. doing a back flip and the other guy doing a front flip? I've seen it on the indies and I still hate it.
 
It was just the case where a new guy does a bunch of flippies to get people to notice him. I think the match was more than just flippies, and didn't think it was a bad match, but it was still nothing more than a chance for sin Cara to show off his athleticism so people will like him.

As for the finish, Sin Cara didn't both it, and given the time constraints to the match, he didn't have time to roll around for a while and improvise a new finish. So he just popped back up and redid the finish. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Im a little worried about the botches. Not only from Sin Cara but will his opponents be able to work with some of his spots? Sin Cara usually works with other luchadores so im not sure how he would work with a guy like cena. I still think hes great and im hoping he makes it to the world title picture.
 
Okay, NOW you guys can scream BOTCH. Because the finish was shitty. Mistico looked like a spot monkey, fucking up, and then just redoing the spot, complete with the kick set up.

his finish is contrived as hell too. doesn't make any sense. he needs a better finish. I can't see the American audience getting into it. The FU at least makes sense as a move. doing a back flip and the other guy doing a front flip? I've seen it on the indies and I still hate it.

I only caught 1 botch in that match, but Primo botched it, Not Sin Cara.

They were both on the top rope turnbuckle and Primo slipped, causing Sin Cara to fall. Sin Cara quickly got up and re-did it. Not Sin Cara's botch, Primo's botch.
 
The ending botch was not Sin Cara , it was Primo who messed it up. Cara completely sold the botch perfectly , gave him a nice kick for it again, and then followed up with the move.

Saw more wrestling moves in that match then ive seen in years. He still needs to get use to the WWE style , so in time , hes going to be more polished. The ending wasnt ruined at all and the move was INSANE.

Dont know how many people can work with him though, but i expect some very nice things with daniel bryan.

Whoever said the American Fans wont get into them makes no sense at all. His style was all I use to see in the cruiserweights of WCW and of Rey when he first came in. Twitter blew up and Sin Cara trended. Hes going to be huge
 
he didnt botch, Primo botched....they probably shouldve rehearsed but you know what mistakes happen and its not that big of a deal....his entrance is the only real concern though because he almost messed up again tonight with that, but in the ring he looks spectacular....he at least made Primo look good besides that shitty ending....he made Primo actually look like a threat....he has the makings already of a legendary luchadore, and even someone WWE can count on to put over young talent one day.....thats a rare breed
 
The ending botch was not Sin Cara , it was Primo who messed it up. Cara completely sold the botch perfectly , gave him a nice kick for it again, and then followed up with the move.

Saw more wrestling moves in that match then ive seen in years. He still needs to get use to the WWE style , so in time , hes going to be more polished. The ending wasnt ruined at all and the move was INSANE.

Dont know how many people can work with him though, but i expect some very nice things with daniel bryan.

Whoever said the American Fans wont get into them makes no sense at all. His style was all I use to see in the cruiserweights of WCW and of Rey when he first came in. Twitter blew up and Sin Cara trended. Hes going to be huge

Yep, the botch was Primo, not Sin Cara.

It's a shame WWE doesn't have the same # of cruiserweights as WCW of old. Sin Cara would have had no shortage of worthy opponents back then, but as of now, I scratch my head and wonder who he's going to be able to feud with, aside from Daniel Bryan and the obvious one, Rey Mysterio.
 
I forgot Primo was even in the WWE until this match. I don't remember the last time he was on RAW. It was good to see him though, even if it was a job.

I don't think that will be his finisher. There is NO WAY he'll be able to do that with most of the WWE guys. It was a way to get people to talk about him, not much more than that. It was AMAZING though. Who cares if he botched it. How many botches are there on WWE tv these days? LOTS. Whether you're a small high flyer, or a big brawler, they all make mistakes.

All that aside, I'm excited about this guy. Hopefully he continues to do some awesome moves and put on exciting matches. Lord knows WWE needs more exciting matches!!!!!!!!!!!
 
The ending botch was a result of Primo slipping off of the turnbuckle and back down onto his ass. Point Blank. I thought this match was actually fairly decent and it helped contribute to a solid episode of Monday Night RAW. Could we see a possible match against the two at Extreme Rules? OR could we just write this off as a step ladder match for the rising Mexican sensation?
 
I definitely think this guy is talented. His skills seem phenomenal. The problem is, I do not really see him getting that big of a push until he gets on a microphone. I want to know how much charisma this guy has before he even has an opportunity for a push. I am not big into masked wrestlers, but I respect most masked wrestler's move sets.
 
I was one of those people who disliked his match tonight. I think wrestling Primo was totally fine, however they made Primo look way to good (WWE Title Reign maybe????) and Cara only look good at the end. I think still Cara botched his entrance by hitting the top rope when diving into the ring and bothced the finishing maneuveur as it was done twice. i would very much like to see him Learn English as he doesn't speak it, so until then the only guys he could feud with would be Primo or Del Rio or Mysterio. I want him to be in the title hunt, but also feel he should go over to Smackdown.
 
I thought the finish was fine, if you watched the slow-mo look at how high the two of them got! And did anyone really think Primo was kicking out of that? I mean let Sin Cara debut a real finisher against a more legit opponent. Nothing against Primo though, I thought him and Sin Cara worked a pretty solid match. Would love to see Primo and Chavo make a tag team someday...

But as for Sin Cara, I definitely think he should move to Smackdown especially with Edge gone, Smackdown is in desperate need for faces now, Edge's retirement puts the load squarely on Christian.
 
I thought the finish was fine, if you watched the slow-mo look at how high the two of them got! And did anyone really think Primo was kicking out of that? I mean let Sin Cara debut a real finisher against a more legit opponent. Nothing against Primo though, I thought him and Sin Cara worked a pretty solid match. Would love to see Primo and Chavo make a tag team someday...

But as for Sin Cara, I definitely think he should move to Smackdown especially with Edge gone, Smackdown is in desperate need for faces now, Edge's retirement puts the load squarely on Christian.
I could see Sin Cara going to RAW sometime after Extreme Rules, but remember: He's in a feud with Sheamus right now. That match will more than likely include the United States Championship. So with Sin already in on the RAW title scene. A Smackdown trade seems somewhat distant.
 
Good match. As said earlier Sin Cara did not botch, it was Primo and the finishe looked cool. The only problem i have with him is his entrance when he jumps into the ring. I get its to make him look more athelectic, but one slip up and he could be injured big time. Anyways i look foward to see what he is going to do next.
 
That was Primo's fuck-up, not Sin Cara's.

His finisher is contrived, I agree, and I do fear that not a lot of WWE guys will be able to work with him adequately. I joked to my friend that he faced Primo simply because Primo can speak Spanish, which is probably true. The language barrier and the sheer...complexity? Flashiness? of his moves might be a problem. Hopefully the guys he enters into feuds with can adapt, because so far I'm impressed.
 
What I personally love about Sin Cara is how the WWE is making him show up abruptly to attack random heels (ex. Sheamus on RAW and Jack Swagger on Smackdown). That's just really interesting to me. It adds to his mysterious factor. I thought the debut match against Primo was fine. That sunset flip bomb variation was awesome. The top rope Spanish fly was a great ending spot. I loved it. However, I'd love to see him perform a top rope tornado splash instead for a finisher. It's too early to tell whether or not he'll rise to the top, but the signs already spell 'special attraction' for the stuff he can pull off. I wanna see matches between Sin Cara and Evan Bourne already.
 
It was just the case where a new guy does a bunch of flippies to get people to notice him. I think the match was more than just flippies, and didn't think it was a bad match, but it was still nothing more than a chance for sin Cara to show off his athleticism so people will like him.

As for the finish, Sin Cara didn't both it, and given the time constraints to the match, he didn't have time to roll around for a while and improvise a new finish. So he just popped back up and redid the finish. Nothing wrong with that.

Cara botched it because he made it look fake as fuck. It's okay to slip and fall, but don't non chalantly hop off, and then half ass sell the fall. Then get up, and redo the finish. It looked fake as hell and I know it killed the match for a lot of the fans live. You could hear the groans.

American mainstream fans HATE it when something looks too fake. That's why contrived flippity guys haven't really ever gotten over unless they set up the spots to seem possible and add emotion.

"time constraints"? How about this, instead of hopping off and halfway selling the fall, he hops down on his feet (showing agility) and then as he gets up, primo puts up a fight before getting hit a few times, then same "spectacular" finisher.

Before you say "how's he supposed to do that on the fly". Just remember he's supposed to be a world class performer. that's kind of what they do. the finish was just awkward as hell.

I guarantee that if Cena went for a top rope FU, got pulled off, halfway sold the fall, then did the finish exactly as they'd started doing it that this board would have exploded.
 
Cara botched it because he made it look fake as fuck. It's okay to slip and fall, but don't non chalantly hop off, and then half ass sell the fall. Then get up, and redo the finish. It looked fake as hell and I know it killed the match for a lot of the fans live. You could hear the groans.
I didn't think it looked fake at all. What looked fake about it? He fell to the ground, knew his opponent was ready to be finished, and so he forced himself to pop back up while Primo was still dazed from the beating and the fall onto the top turnbuckel. So Sin Care forced himself back up and got the finish.

American mainstream fans HATE it when something looks too fake. That's why contrived flippity guys haven't really ever gotten over unless they set up the spots to seem possible and add emotion.
Agree completely, I just disagree with how fake you're claiming this looked. Yes, it was an obvious "botch" (even though it wasn't really a botch as much of an situational accident...a botch usually refers to a fixable mistake between wrestlers, this was just one guy slipping), but no matter what the two guys would have done, there was nothing which would erase the memory of the botch. So, in that, the match had no choice because to be seen as messed up, but as far as a "reality" sense goes, I think it made perfect logical sense for it to play out the way it did.

"time constraints"?
Yes, each segment on the show is constrained by the time allotment they are given by the bookers. In the WWE, you have to be very precise, because they run a huge show with lots of people on it, and they have to make sure they break at the appropriate times for the advertisers. Sin Cara and Primo got quite a bit of time for their match, but they really didn't have much time for the finish after the botch. So they had to hurry up and get the spot pulled off so the WWE could keep the rest of the segment on schedule.

How about this, instead of hopping off and halfway selling the fall, he hops down on his feet (showing agility) and then as he gets up, primo puts up a fight before getting hit a few times, then same "spectacular" finisher.
That's great an all when you've had over 4 hours to think about it. :suspic:

However, Sin Cara didn't have over 4 hours to think about it, he knew his match time was about up, Primo lost his balance causing Sin Care to lose his, and Sin Cara legitimately fell to the ground. Meanwhile, Primo also knows the match time is about up, and so he's just sitting on the top rope waiting for Sin Care to come finish the match.

It's amazing the things you can think of after 4 hours, but trying having to come up with all of that inside of 15 seconds, including the falling "hops down on his feet" part WHILE he's falling which only took 1 second. I doubt you could have thought of all that on the fly too.

Before you say "how's he supposed to do that on the fly". Just remember he's supposed to be a world class performer. that's kind of what they do. the finish was just awkward as hell.
Being a world class performer doesn't change the fact that he had less than a second to think of all of that while he was on his way down to the ground. Your whole situation starts with him landing on his feet, something he would have had to think of in a split second, WHILE he's trying to figure out how to stay on the turnbuckel.

I'm sorry, but your being kind of unrealstic with your expectations. Being a world class performer doesn't speed up the mind's ability to think and process.

I guarantee that if Cena went for a top rope FU, got pulled off, halfway sold the fall, then did the finish exactly as they'd started doing it that this board would have exploded.
You might very well be right. Of course, that has no bearing on this discussion between you and me because I wouldn't be one of the ones exploding. I'd be here doing the exact same thing I'm doing now.
 
I forgot Primo was even in the WWE until this match. I don't remember the last time he was on RAW. It was good to see him though, even if it was a job.

For sure. I was impressed with Primo's physique after having not seen him for a long time. He seems to have lost the baby fat he was carrying.....and his movements in the ring seemed crisper and more defined.

Still, due to his botch in a match with an important newcomer, I wouldn't be surprised if Primo gets future endeavored......and it's too bad because the way he's improved his body might have led to better things for him.

Maybe it'll still happen, who knows?
 
Guys, I thought the match was very decent. They did make Primo look a little too good...but a squash would have been bleh. Also as has been said numerous times on here, Primo slipped and botched the finish. I think Sin did a pretty good job of falling, shking it off then hitting the kick again, setting up for the finisher. I don't believe thats going to be his finsher. I hope he uses his finisher from when he was Misico

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae3IdjdAJIE
 
I was pleased with his debut. People are making far too much out of these little fuck ups. There are botches in every match, I guarantee you'll find that any of these all time great matches everyone praises have a few botches in it. This was the guys first match on national television and he had the crowd chanting his name. I am certain everyone in the back was pleased with the way things went down and Sin Cara has nothing to ashamed of.

I will agree that the top rope C-4 isn't a realistic finisher. He could do it to a few of the more agile people, but not to any of the bigger guys. Still, quite a fucking beautiful move.
 
The match was pretty good. It was nice to see Primo showing off his true skills. As for the botch, it was Primo's fault. He slipped and almost knocked Cara backwards so to save it he jumped foward. It was a mistake, big deal. Everytime someone botches people automatically think they suck. Do you really expect these guys to NEVER make mistakes? Anyways, its obviously Sin Cara is going to become a huge star in the WWE and they are just at the beginning of hyping him up.
 
His finisher is the arm bar flippy thing, whatever the hell its called. It was shown in his promo videos. I thought it was a good showing. It was just a show off match, and some of it didnt look at crisp as it could, even the entrance wasnt as crisp as i thought it had been when he came out to fight swagger jacker. Overall though, i thought it went well, and when primo botched the finish, Cara seemed kind of upset. I thought his body language spoke volumes on how he was upset about the botch, in his big moment. But once he gets into the flow of things I think he'll be okay.

I can see him and rey facing the current tag champs (heath slater and justin gabriel) somewhere down the line. especially if the corre is due to breakup, which it seems.
 
Wow, never before has a new debutant made such an impression on me.
From the way he walks out onto the stage, the burst of energy taking him to the ring and the explosion of fireworks... i was blown away.

I was even more impressed with Primo who made Sin Cara look fantastic.. shame bout the fall from the top rope but they carried on and Cara delivered an amazing top rope flip

i think this guy has amazing potential and i hope to god WWE use him the right way.

Sin Cara is one for the future
 

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