Round One: Neo vs. Dumbledore

[JGlass]

Round One...

Dumbledore is no stranger to chose ones, but Neo is a bit different than Harry Potter. For one thing, Neo doesn't use magic. Also, Neo is going to be trying to beat the everloving tar out of his opponent. But Dumbledore is no stranger to fights to the death, and Neo would be wise not to underestimate his opponent. Only one can win, who will it be?

FIGHT!​

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

Quick question. Is this fight in the real world or is it in the matrix? Because if it was in the Matrix itself it really wouldn't be a fair fight at all.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

We should all vote Dumbledore so we don't have to ask if they're fighting outside the Matrix repeatedly.

That and Dumbledore is a sleeper in this tournament if ever there was one. A wizard that holds the most powerful weapon in his universe, the Elder Wand. Dude is a bit of a badass in his own right, too. He has a history of defeating the wizard Hitlers of his day. There was a good reason Voldemort was scared shitless of him.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Neo in the real world has all of his fighting knowledge, so there's that. Not to mention that in the real world he can destroy machines with a thought. I'm assuming that this is Neo at his best and he has all of his abilities, which means that damn wizard is done for.

Vote Neo.

 

[JGlass]

I don't think this is in the Matrix. The machines would have had no reason to program magic into the Matrix, it would only raise the suspicions of its inhabitants.

Neo outside of the Matrix is no match for Dumbledore. Dumbledore is easily one of the strongest wizards in the known history of wizardry, having beaten Gellert Grindelwald, the most powerful dark wizard before Voldemort came along, and fought Voldemort to a draw in the Ministry of Magic (Voldemort retreated before the duel could be concluded).

Neo might have his combat knowledge and the courage to take on machines, but Dumbledore is no machine: he's a brilliant wizard with more wisdom and courage than perhaps anyone else in this tournament.

I see Dumbledore hitting Neo with enough spells to knock him unconscious and move onto the next round.

 

[SSJPhenom]

The crux of an argument involving Neo is always going to concern Matrix Neo vs real world Neo and where the battle is taking place. In the words of the great Morpheus, however, what is real? How do you define real? If real is only what we can see, taste, touch, hear, and smell; then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by the brain. So whether or not we're using Matrix Neo or real world Neo is moot. Neo, at his best, has several abilities and if we deny him those abilities then what would be the point of involving him in this tournament? Also, if we're going to dictate what version of Neo we're using then why don't those same rules apply to everyone else? Are we using new 52 Wonder Woman, Silver Age, Golden Age, Pre Crisis, or Post Crisis? Are we using Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man Unlimited, Miles Morales Spider-Man, or the Tobey McGuire Spider-Man? DBZ Future Trunks, GT Future Trunks, or Super Future Trunks? Or, simply, are we taking these characters as we know them best at their best?

If you want to use the Matrix argument, though, I would argue that not only does this battle take place in the Matrix; but that the entire Harry Potter universe is in the Matrix. How else would one explain wizards? Much like how ghosts, vampires, werewolves, angels, etc are exiled programs in the Matrix, so to are wizards and the children they find are children who didn't accept their lives as they were in the Matrix so the machines gave them another reality. All just another form of control.

Neo with his abilities wins. Don't take away what makes Neo special.

 

[JGlass]

The crux of an argument involving Neo is always going to concern Matrix Neo vs real world Neo and where the battle is taking place. In the words of the great Morpheus, however, what is real? How do you define real? If real is only what we can see, taste, touch, hear, and smell; then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by the brain. So whether or not we're using Matrix Neo or real world Neo is moot. Neo, at his best, has several abilities and if we deny him those abilities then what would be the point of involving him in this tournament? Also, if we're going to dictate what version of Neo we're using then why don't those same rules apply to everyone else? Are we using new 52 Wonder Woman, Silver Age, Golden Age, Pre Crisis, or Post Crisis? Are we using Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man Unlimited, Miles Morales Spider-Man, or the Tobey McGuire Spider-Man? DBZ Future Trunks, GT Future Trunks, or Super Future Trunks? Or, simply, are we taking these characters as we know them best at their best?

The problem with this argument is that Neo is the same identity inside and outside of the Matrix. To pick one of your examples, Earth 616 Spider-Man and Ultimate Spider-Man are two different identities.

An argument worth making is that the BattleZone Tournament could not possibly take place in the Matrix because it takes place in a universe that doesn't belong to any one of the participants, but a separate universe altogether.

If you want to use the Matrix argument, though, I would argue that not only does this battle take place in the Matrix; but that the entire Harry Potter universe is in the Matrix. How else would one explain wizards? Much like how ghosts, vampires, werewolves, angels, etc are exiled programs in the Matrix, so to are wizards and the children they find are children who didn't accept their lives as they were in the Matrix so the machines gave them another reality. All just another form of control.

Now that's a good argument. Still, unless the machines control the universe of the BattleZone Tournament (and I'm assuming they don't, because that would mean they control every single universe that the BattleZone borrows its participants from), then this could not possibly take place in the Matrix.

 

[Bernkastel]

I'm going to use Neo as he is within the Matrix. Otherwise what's the point? We might as well deny Dumbledore the right to use the Elder Wand, since it wasn't in his possession for the majority of its existence and he eventually lost it. But that's not really fair is it? I would take both fighters at the their peak. So I'm picturing Dumbledore in his prime as the most powerful wizard of his time with the Elderwand. The one that fought Gellert Grindelwald and who's reputation and power Voldemort feared. Not the near decrepit old man that barely stalemated Voldemort. So I'm picturing the Neo that fought off an army of Smith's as his opponent.

Realistically this fight comes down to speed and haxed ability. I don't doubt for a second that Dumbledore spells would work on Neo. That's if Dumbledore can connect with any of them. While the spells are fast, they can be dodged. Neo is much faster than a regular human. He can outrun the explosion of two colliding trucks and travel through the air 500 miles in under a few minutes. He could dodge gun fire while still getting used to his powers. Later on he could stop bullets all together. I assume that Neo could stop one of Dumbledore's spells telekinetically too. Since he can manipulate most things in the Matrix that way. But despite all of his power and abilities he is NOT invincible within the Matrix.

But...

Neo at the peak of his ability is just too much for Dumbledore to handle at the peak of his. His speed would allow him to dodge anything Dumbledore threw at him and his combat prowess would make short work of the wizard.

 

[Lee]

Severus Snape: "What is the advantage of a nonverbal spell?"
Hermione Granger: "Your adversary has no warning about what kind of magic you are about to perform, which gives you a split-second advantage."

Dumbledore was more than capable of non-verbal and wandless spells. One such example is Arresto Momentum.

Dumbledore has used Arresto Momentum to both slow down and stop movement so your "But Neo is fast" argument is useful. The spell primarily used on Quaffle the spell has been used on the Golden Snitch in the past as well. I'm sure the Golden Snitch can move faster than Neo.

 

[Bernkastel]

Severus Snape: "What is the advantage of a nonverbal spell?"
Hermione Granger: "Your adversary has no warning about what kind of magic you are about to perform, which gives you a split-second advantage."

Dumbledore was more than capable of non-verbal and wandless spells. One such example is Arresto Momentum.

Dumbledore has used Arresto Momentum to both slow down and stop movement so your "But Neo is fast" argument is useful. The spell primarily used on Quaffle the spell has been used on the Golden Snitch in the past as well. I'm sure the Golden Snitch can move faster than Neo.

Harry Potter could keep up with the Golden Snitch just fine on his Firebolt, which had a top speed of 150 mph. Neo traveled a distance of 500 miles within minutes and outpaced the blast from a large explosion. The Golden Snitch is no where near as fast as Neo.

Arresto Momentum might be a good counter, once, but as soon as Neo is completely stopped or slowed he can start to move again. The spell won't freeze him in place for any prolonged period of time. Neo can completely stop machine gun fire with his telepathy as well as dodge bullets at point blank range. Dodging a spell at point blank range wouldn't be an issue.

Speed is an important factor here as it's arguable that Dumbledore wouldn't be able to utter a spell or cast one before Neo's punched him in the face.

 

[Lee]

The Firebolt can go faster than 150mph, it goes 0-150 in 10 seconds but top speed is above 150mph.

"The spell won't freeze him in place for any prolonged period of time". No that spell may not but one of the countless others would. Here's an example of three:

Petrificus Totalus used by first years on Neville. Locks the full body.
Hardening Charm. Used by final year students. Turns into stone.
Immobious is used in second year by students in Gilderoy Lockharts class.

Imagine how much more Dumbledore can do.

There's literally no evidence that you could use telekensis against a spell.

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

Neo''s abilities as The One exited beyond the Matrix itself. Hence when he controlled the sentinels. He can also see the code so even if Dumbledore cast those nonverbal spells Neo would see the altered code. By no means is Dumbledore a weakling but I don't think he'll get past Neo's ability to see Code. Neo Wins.

 

[Bernkastel]

The Firebolt can go faster than 150mph, it goes 0-150 in 10 seconds but top speed is above 150mph.

Fast enough to travel 500 miles in a matter of minutes or escape the epicenter of an explosion from point blank range? The gas from an explosion like the one Neo escaped can travel at a speed of 8,050 meters a second or 40,376 mph. I am sure that is much faster than a Firebolt or a Golden Snitch.

If Dumbledore found himself in the epicenter of an explosion like that could he utter "Arresto Momento" before he's killed?

"The spell won't freeze him in place for any prolonged period of time". No that spell may not but one of the countless others would. Here's an example of three:

Petrificus Totalus used by first years on Neville. Locks the full body.
Hardening Charm. Used by final year students. Turns into stone.
Immobious is used in second year by students in Gilderoy Lockharts class.

Imagine how much more Dumbledore can do.

I don't doubt it. But this is assuming that Dumbledore could even follow Neo's movements fast enough to use a spell against him. Dumbledore is still a human. His brain might be able to react fast enough to react to Neo but his body certainly wouldn't be. Someone that can outrun an explosion will have punched Dumbledore in the face before he can open his mouth.

There's literally no evidence that you could use telekensis against a spell

Perhaps, but it doesn't matter when Neo could easily dodge any spell thrown at him.

 

[nightmare]

This is not in the Matrix. Makes no sense for it to be, considering that would be giving Neo a home field advantage. Outside of the Matrix Neo can hold his own, but his powers have been shown to work on machines, which his opponent is not. Dumbledore gave the most feared evil bastard in his realm the nervous jitters because he is such a badass. Dumbledore takes this after a few flicks of his wrist.

 

[JGlass]

This is not in the Matrix. Makes no sense for it to be, considering that would be giving Neo a home field advantage. Outside of the Matrix Neo can hold his own, but his powers have been shown to work on machines, which his opponent is not. Dumbledore gave the most feared evil bastard in his realm the nervous jitters because he is such a badass. Dumbledore takes this after a few flicks of his wrist.

Nervous jitters? Voldemort was terrified of Dumbledore. (I know you're arguing for Dumledore whom I also support, but bear with me here).

What people don't get about Dumbledore is that, before Harry Potter came along, he was THE wizard. When the Wizarding World needed bitches to get regulated, Dumbledore was the man they called. He was the first one to recognize what Tom Riddle was and he was the one that was chosen to lead the forces of good in battle against Voldemort during the First Wizarding War, and after the war was over he could have become Minister of Magic if he chose, but instead elected to continue his role as an educator at Hogwarts.

Dumbledore isn't simply Harry's mentor or the wise old wizard... he's one of the biggest badasses in the Harry Potter universe, and not someone who should be underestimated.

 

[nightmare]

Clearly. Even if Neo had all his in program Matrix powers, Dumbledore is very powerful & would not be scared of bullets or super kung fu. Neo wont likely get close. Even someone as strong as V shits himself when old grey beard is involved.

 

[Bernkastel]

If Neo wasn't supposed to have access to his Matrix abilities then it should have been specifically stated inside of his biography. Instead it's not. All of his Matrix abilities are described there. So they are fair game. In a tournament like this one all the fighters should have normalized abilities anyway, so they can fight to the best of their ability so that we don't have to constantly question whether a specific ability would work or not due to outlying reasons.

Bottom line is that Neo with his Matrix abilities is stronger and faster than peak Dumbledore is with his. He would win.

 

[JGlass]

If Neo wasn't supposed to have access to his Matrix abilities then it should have been specifically stated inside of his biography. Instead it's not. All of his Matrix abilities are described there. So they are fair game. In a tournament like this one all the fighters should have normalized abilities anyway, so they can fight to the best of their ability so that we don't have to constantly question whether a specific ability would work or not due to outlying reasons.

Bottom line is that Neo with his Matrix abilities is stronger and faster than peak Dumbledore is with his. He would win.

His abilities exist only in the Matrix. Nobody except Phenom has done anything to argue that this fight takes place in the Matrix.

Respect the game.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

How about a plot twist?

Dumbledore is in the Matrix and his abilities come from the Matrix's programming, just like Neo.

 

[JGlass]

How about a plot twist?

Dumbledore is in the Matrix and his abilities come from the Matrix's programming, just like Neo.

I actually considered this, but Neo's Matrix abilities >>>> Dumbledore's abilities.

Besides, it's far more likely that this just isn't in the Matrix. Unless we're all in the Matrix right now, which we're definitely not because this world is too chaotic to be designed.

 

[Bernkastel]

His abilities exist only in the Matrix. Nobody except Phenom has done anything to argue that this fight takes place in the Matrix.

Respect the game.

If we can argue that Bugs toonforce ability will work on Mario in a universe outside Warner Bros, then I fail to see how Neo's abilities can't be normalized so that he can use them outside the Matrix. For all terms and purposes the proposed "universe" of the BZT should be made up of all the universes of all the fighters that were chosen to participate. Otherwise you could argue that no one's powers would work outside their home universes at all.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

I actually considered this, but Neo's Matrix abilities >>>> Dumbledore's abilities.

Besides, it's far more likely that this just isn't in the Matrix. Unless we're all in the Matrix right now, which we're definitely not because this world is too chaotic to be designed.

Well then in the actual world then, no Hogwarts or Matrix, Neo can just stop some robots and beat up a guy that is far weaker than the actual Smith.

Dumbledore still has all his powers. So the obvious answer is Dumbledore.

Plus the Matrix became to fucked up after the first half of the second movie.

Vote, Dumblie.

 

[JGlass]

If we can argue that Bugs toonforce ability will work on Mario in a universe outside Warner Bros, then I fail to see how Neo's abilities can't be normalized so that he can use them outside the Matrix. For all terms and purposes the proposed "universe" of the BZT should be made up of all the universes of all the fighters that were chosen to participate. Otherwise you could argue that no one's powers would work outside their home universes at all.

Agreed, except that in Neo's universe, there are two separate realities with two separate rules. In one he's bound to the same rules as anyone else with a few exceptions, but in the other he's awakened to the near limitless possibilities that exist.

In the BZT Neo brings both the Matrix and the "real world" with him. Which one is he plugged into in this fight? In my opinion, it's the real world.

This is a good argument, though.

 

[Bernkastel]

Agreed, except that in Neo's universe, there are two separate realities with two separate rules. In one he's bound to the same rules as anyone else with a few exceptions, but in the other he's awakened to the near limitless possibilities that exist.

In the BZT Neo brings both the Matrix and the "real world" with him. Which one is he plugged into in this fight? In my opinion, it's the real world.

This is a good argument, though.

Neo's "real" world and the Matrix are connected, so it's part of the same universe. Even though the Matrix might have different laws that work in Neo's favor, he's not omnipotent there. He has limits. Dumbledore's power is rooted in the Harry Potter verse. If you took Dumbledore and placed him in Neo's "real" world his powers arguably wouldn't work any more than if you placed him in our universe. So we'd have to normalize both the Matrix and Harry Potter verses for Dumbledore and Neo to use their abilities. And since the Matrix universe is dual sided you'd have to normalize both. It would allow any character facing Neo to fight in the Matrix, even though that normally wouldn't be possible.

 

[Lee]

"You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."
―Morpheus, to Neo

Memory Charms. Lovely aren't they? If only Neo was against someone who could make him forget what he found out about being the chosen one and the Matrix. He could even use the charm Hermoine uses which puts false memories in their heads. He Neo you picked the Blue pill. You know nothing now. So Neo regresses to Mr. Anderson once again leading it to the second Tom that Dumbledore has outsmarted.