Round Two: Trunks vs. Dumbledore

[SSJPhenom]

I'm just saying that we're dealing with two separate universes and since in DB all powers work behind the mechanics of energy, that would mean if a lesser being pulled something off, then a more powerful being could do the same.

I almost guarantee that Trunks' greatest feat trumps Dumbledore's. Tell me what that is, and I'll prove it to you.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Yes, he can. I really don't know how to make it much clearer than that.

Dumbledore can move, cast a spell without his wand present, and move back again in less than a blink.

And Trunks can move faster than the human eye can see. Faster than a blink. Even powerful beings like Krillin, Piccolo, Yamacha, Tien, etc have a hard time following those movements.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I'm not sure what medium to follow here. The books or the movies. All I know is that when wizards cast spells in the movies, they look like energy projectiles and Trunks can deflect those with ease. He can also erect his own energy shield to block attacks/spells and he is stronger, faster, more durable, etc than Dumbledore.

If you want to vote for Dumbledore because you like him best and you don't want to see the "OP DB character" move on then just say that, but Dumbledore is not beating Trunks.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'm just saying that we're dealing with two separate universes and since in DB all powers work behind the mechanics of energy, that would mean if a lesser being pulled something off, then a more powerful being could do the same.

I almost guarantee that Trunks' greatest feat trumps Dumbledore's. Tell me what that is, and I'll prove it to you.

Why? You're not going to accept it even if Dumbledore created the universe while inventing ice cream and 13 year old boys so I'm not going to waste my time.

I'm not sure what medium to follow here. The books or the movies. All I know is that when wizards cast spells in the movies, they look like energy projectiles and Trunks can deflect those with ease. He can also erect his own energy shield to block attacks/spells and he is stronger, faster, more durable, etc than Dumbledore.

If you want to vote for Dumbledore because you like him best and you don't want to see the "OP DB character" move on then just say that, but Dumbledore is not beating Trunks.

The books, which really shouldn't be that complicated.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

You're right, I wouldn't call on old man highly populated. Did you ever watch History of Trunks? Most of those battles happened in very populated places.

You're missing the point. I'm not arguing that he hasn't fought in populated places. I'm arguing that he has problems with fighting in populated places. Like every Z Warrior does because, you know, they're supposed to be good guys and they take their big fights away from people like 100% of the time.

Dumbledore is a big time fight. Don't ignore Trunks's history of working with the Z Warriors because it doesn't fit your narrative for this battle.

Where does it say this is only DBZ Trunks? Besides, I already asked about this and I was told we could use his most recent version.

Right there in the graphic. "DBZ".

Nope, I'm telling you that Trunks is nowhere near as moral as Goku. He doesn't hesitate to kill and he's never, never, tried to clear an area before fighting. Again, not just DBZ Trunks. You made that up.

Trunks has taken his fights away from populated areas many times. Z Warriors take their fights away from people. How many times does that really need to be said to a DBZ fan?

I didn't make it up. You're just not the Dragon Ball historian you think you are.

First off, the Z Fighters never moved their fight with Raditz. Quit making things up. Raditz stole Gohan and flew off on his own.

I didn't say they moved the fight. I said it was taken away from Roshi's Island. Keep up.

All those other examples you gave were others making the decision not Trunks.

You're right. Trunks would gladly kill the enemy at the expense of innocent lives. That's totally in his character because he shares the same personality as Vegeta. That's why they got along since the beginning.

I think it says a lot about Trunks' feelings on bystanders that when he did return to the future, he never tried to move that old guy out of the way or move the Androids from the city. He didn't give a damn.

You're seriously taking Trunks, a guy who was late to the party to do much else but save a guy, and made him out to be some uncaring dick.

[YOUTUBE]868NCW0jGrU[/YOUTUBE]

Skip to 2:46 and 4:00 for the parts where he shows how he cares about regular people. 4:20 for how compassionate he is for that old man that you say he doesn't give a damn about.

Now who is making things up?

Not really

He's a bit whinier than Vegeta, but he is more caring and has shown so.

I'm willing to bet that he's never fought anyone or anything near Trunks' power, speed, durability, and strength.

And I'd say Trunks has never fought a wizard. Moot point.

Good for him. Trunks can fire energy blasts without saying something as well.

Energy blasts that can easily tear through the hull of a ship, would you say?

Not Trunks. Not like you'd think. He's shown no mercy on enemies and again he's never ever tried to shield bystanders in a fight.

Nobody said anything about shielding or taking the people away from the fight. It was always the Z Warriors taking the enemy away from the people. This is not a hard thing to understand.

You'd do better arguing Dumbledore's merits against me insteat of disproving Trunks. Dragon Ball is what I do.

Clearly it's not, or you'd know Trunks's character is a lot more caring than what you've painted him as.

 

[SSJPhenom]

If you can prove to me that Dumbledore can beat Trunks, I would accept it. When jas Dumbledore done something on Trunks level? That's what I'm asking for. Don't try to throw your back handed insults at me. Trunks has the more impressive feats and has more power, speed, durability, powerful attacks, and ways to dodge or block Dumbledore's attacks.

It seems pretty academic to me.

 

[SSJPhenom]

You're missing the point. I'm not arguing that he hasn't fought in populated places. I'm arguing that he has problems with fighting in populated places. Like every Z Warrior does because, you know, they're supposed to be good guys and they take their big fights away from people like 100% of the time.

Dumbledore is a big time fight. Don't ignore Trunks's history of working with the Z Warriors because it doesn't fit your narrative for this battle.



Right there in the graphic. "DBZ".




Trunks has taken his fights away from populated areas many times. Z Warriors take their fights away from people. How many times does that really need to be said to a DBZ fan?

I didn't make it up. You're just not the Dragon Ball historian you think you are.



I didn't say they moved the fight. I said it was taken away from Roshi's Island. Keep up.



You're right. Trunks would gladly kill the enemy at the expense of innocent lives. That's totally in his character because he shares the same personality as Vegeta. That's why they got along since the beginning.



You're seriously taking Trunks, a guy who was late to the party to do much else but save a guy, and made him out to be some uncaring dick.

[YOUTUBE]868NCW0jGrU[/YOUTUBE]

Skip to 2:46 and 4:00 for the parts where he shows how he cares about regular people. 4:20 for how compassionate he is for that old man that you say he doesn't give a damn about.

Now who is making things up?



He's a bit whinier than Vegeta, but he is more caring and has shown so.



And I'd say Trunks has never fought a wizard. Moot point.



Energy blasts that can easily tear through the hull of a ship, would you say?



Nobody said anything about shielding or taking the people away from the fight. It was always the Z Warriors taking the enemy away from the people. This is not a hard thing to understand.



Clearly it's not, or you'd know Trunks's character is a lot more caring than what you've painted him as.

Just because he helped the old guy up doesn't mean that he was worried about him getting killed in battle. Hell, he fired an energy blast mere feet away from the guy. Lol.

Trunks has fought a wizard. He fought Babidi and Dubura in his time line.

You are making things up. You said the Z Fighters moved the fight with Raditz and they didn't. Also, you're using the Z Fighters as a whole to describe Trunks' mentality. That's very different from comparing feats. Give me an example where Trunks tried to move a battle from innocents that he didn't know. The only time Trunks has ever moved a battle was when he fought Cell in the future and that was to protect his MOM. I never said Trunks wasn't caring, I've just said and proven that he really does care that much for collateral damage or deaths.

 

[klunderbunker]

If you can prove to me that Dumbledore can beat Trunks, I would accept it. When jas Dumbledore done something on Trunks level? That's what I'm asking for. Don't try to throw your back handed insults at me. Trunks has the more impressive feats and has more power, speed, durability, powerful attacks, and ways to dodge or block Dumbledore's attacks.

It seems pretty academic to me.

Which you've proven by......saying so. That's hard hitting evidence indeed.

Here's the thing: Trunks has probably done more impressive things because DBZ is in a universe where plot is defined as having one major battle after another. Dumbledore doesn't have to blow up a planet or move a mountain. He has to beat someone powerful in battle, which he's done time after time.

 

[SSJPhenom]

So has Trunks.

I could post visual proof of Trunks feats but what's the point. You know I'm right.

 

[lenguy]

I'm going to try and be as non biased as I can. DB is my front. I do not know anything about the Potter verse outside of what I saw in the movies. Though, I'll try to make a case for both parties instead of just picking a side. Normally I just hang back and observe these tournaments as I'm not really highly knowledgeable with a lot of these characters to make any sort of argument without the risk of sounding ignorant. I want to just throw in my two cents here.

People act like one person or the other would have a clear decisive victory over the other without so much as breaking a sweat. I don't think that is the case. Dumbledore might not have anything in his arsenal to destroy an entire planet, but that shouldn't mean that he's any less dangerous. He is the worlds number one Wizard for a reason. He probably knows more than a few tricks and spells to disable or immobilize Trunks.

Trunks may be strong but he is NOT immune to magic. Dumbledore hits something like the avada kedavra on Trunks, then Trunks is done for. A senzu won't help him back up from that one. Dumbledore has been around the block, he's lived life and seen his fair share of things. He's more smart and a lot wiser than Trunks. Trunks has been know to get over confidence before. He's done it against Freeza and Cell. Even though in Freeza's case it never really mattered. Trunks may be like Dumbledore in the fact that he's also seen his fair share of shit but Trunks is far too naive. He doesn't know how to properly asses his opponent like Goku, Vegeta or even Piccolo. He often just rushes in to try and end the fight as quickly as possible. A very poor tactic. One that can prove fatal.

Now my argument FOR Trunks. As I previously mentioned, Trunks often rushes right in to try and finish his opponent swiftly and decisively. He's a no slack, play around kind of guy and that can also be a great strength. If this were Goku, Goku would likely play around with Dumbledore for a bit and by the time Goku decides to get serious, he might already be dead. If Trunks were to go in, full power, SSJ2 and rush Dumbledore, I can imagine Dumbledore might be briefly offset and overwhelmed by all that he's seeing just long enough for Trunks to land a finishing blow. Dumbledore might not be able to react in time to counter Trunks. He might be too busy trying to process what it is he is seeing. Maybe he's trying to play it off as some kind of Magic, or perhaps Trunks is a demon. By the time he figures it out, he would be dead. Dumbledore might be an all powerful Wizard, but he is still very much human and I do believe a direct blow from Trunks at his fullest would be enough to bring the mighty Wizard down.

I think the overwhelming pressure Trunks gives off as a full powered SSJ2 might be more than Dumbledore can handle if Trunks decides to finish it right away. Any room outside of that window and It could give Dumbledore and chance to counter attack. Now, pardon my ignorance but aren't the spells of the Potter verse really only effective again't other magic based techniques? I can't see how Dumbledore would deflect or block a giant Ki based blast. I figure his best bet would be to simply avoid it as best he can.

Remember, Trunks has gone up against a powerful Wizard before. In Super*spoilers* Babidi and Dabura have shown up in Trunks timeline to try and resurrect Majin Buu, but they were both disposed of by Trunks. So Trunks has faced somebody like Dumbledore before, but Dumbledore hasn't faced anybody like Trunks before.

Without any prep time, without any research, without knowing anything about each other. I would have to give the edge to Trunks. Trunks doesn't play around. He would see the threat(in this case Dumbledore) power up to max and quickly overwhelm Dumbledore from the very first opening moments of the match to land a lethal blow securing a win. I base this off of all of his previous fights. With Freeza, Future 17 and 18, future Cell and even Black. HOWEVER, should that play out differently and Trunks decides, for what ever reason to try something different(Murphy's law everybody), then that could be enough to cost him. Trunks is willing to kill, I'm not entirely sure about Dumbledore's resolve on that.

I'd say circumstance would suggest both combatants have an equal chance of winning, depending on how the first few seconds play out. Even after those first few seconds, its still anyone's game. So who really knows. I can't really decide on this one, I feel like Trunks overwhelming Super Saiyan power would be more than enough to overcome a great Wizard. It was obviously enough for Babidi. But Dumbledore's arsenal of spells could be enough to shift the battle in his favor. So I don't know. Pick who ever, for me its a draw As I can see multiple scenarios where each come out on top.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

It must be fun arguing for one guy you know a few things about vs. a guy you know nothing at all about.

And to think we haven't even touched on Trunks having Post Traumatic Stress Disorder yet.

Just because he helped the old guy up doesn't mean that he was worried about him getting killed in battle. Hell, he fired an energy blast mere feet away from the guy. Lol.

Trunks isn't heartless. You're attributing characteristics that Trunks has never shown. I even showed you exactly where he talks about his concern for the common rabble. He isn't the monster you're painting him as.

Trunks has fought a wizard. He fought Babidi and Dubura in his time line.

He fought Dabura. Don't get it twisted. Babidi was a wall decoration as he has been since the Buu Saga. The wizard you mention is a doppleganger hull of his former self whose sole claim to fame is befriending bigger and badder villains. Dabura, as you already know, isn't a wizard. Hell calling Babidi a wizard is almost a stretch. Babidi is the Paul Heyman of the DBZ world.

Babidi is also the head hiding inside Professor Quirrel's turban. Not in any way a threat to Dumbledore.

You are making things up. You said the Z Fighters moved the fight with Raditz and they didn't.

I didn't say that. For a third time, I said they took it away from Roshi's Island. You saying I make things up repeatedly isn't going to make it true.

Good job defending all those other times the Z Fighters moved their big fights away from people, though. Keep latching on to what I said about Raditz. Solid defense.

Seriously though, how are you a DBZ fan and you can't admit the Z Warriors whole modus operandi is to keep the villains from taking innocent lives? That's literally what they've done in every saga.

Also, you're using the Z Fighters as a whole to describe Trunks' mentality. That's very different from comparing feats.

You mean to tell me the Trunks that fights alongside the good guys isn't the same Trunks when he fights solo? You got a video of him mowing through civilians as he fights someone?

Give me an example where Trunks tried to move a battle from innocents that he didn't know.The only time Trunks has ever moved a battle was when he fought Cell in the future and that was to protect his MOM.

I'll do you one better. I'll rip a another line of dialogue from Trunks that proves he isn't in the casualty-killing business, something Dumbledore obviously is in, which was my entire point with my first post:

"I agreed with my mother that I should travel back in time, but I had my own reasons for wanting to go. I had hoped that in the past, with Goku's help, I would find the androids had some weakness. That way I could go back to the future. And even though I still wouldn't be able to bring back all those already gone, I might be able to save the people who are left."

He's an edgier Goku. He came from an apocalyptic world where androids killed off most of the population. Big reason why so many thought he was cool was because he fought for that to never happen again. That and the sexy hair/sword/jacket combo.

I never said Trunks wasn't caring,

Except you did-

He didn't give a damn.

I've just said and proven that he really does care that much for collateral damage or deaths.

You've said so a few times, yes. But you haven't proved it. I've given you video and traceable quotes saying otherwise. If you'd like, you can refute those. That would be taking the debate away from the silly "You make things up" defense you're going with.


I can sit aside the morality argument for a moment because even with proof it doesn't seem to change your mind. Dumbledore carries the Elder Wand, the most powerful weapon in the Harry Potter Franchise. He uses his own Instant Transmission called apparating, so he is just as fast as Trunks. He is also a Transfiguration expert, capable of putting a Bubble Charm on his head and actually surviving deep space if and when Trunks blows up the ship. He has more political pull than the Koch Brothers, showing a keener mind than all the Warriors ever. He also fucked Wizard Hitler over even in death. Many would say Trunks is too OP for this tournament. Dumbledore is too OP for Trunks.

Dumbledore can fight without moving a muscle. Trunks has to. The clear winner is Dumbledore here.

 

[SSJPhenom]

You gave me an example of Trunks helping up an old bystander after shooting an energy blast right next to his face and after fighting a battle with two Androids in the immediate vicinity. That right there also proves that Trunks doesn't care to protect bystanders as you claim. If you fail to see how your own video proves my point then you're in denial or intentionally dense. I'll let you decide.

And when you say they moved the battle with Raditz, who are you referring to? Stupid me, I thought you were talking about the Z Fighters because, you know, that's your whole argument but they didn't move the battle. Goku and Krillin actually started the battle with Raditz on Roshi's island. Raditz is the one that moved. You must mean the writers.

So because Trunks fights with the Z Fighters you say he has the same mentality as all of them? Well I guess so does Vegeta and Piccolo and Beerus. Let's go with that. Wait, didn't a portion of Goku and Beerus' battle take place in a city? Didn't Goku fight Majin Buu right over top of a city. You know, after powering up to SSJ3 and causing massive earth quakes and tidal waves. Goku has even once said not to worry about damage to earth or its people, that all they have to do is use the Dragon Balls. He fought all but two of the Shadow Dragons in cities. Yep, they always care for bystanders.

Also, I never said Trunks wasn't caring, my he didn't give a damn line was about collateral damage not about people in general. Everything in Trunks' past suggest that he doesn't care about collateral damage. Fighting in populated areas is what he has always done in his timelime and continues to do. That dialogue that you stole from the dub would be good piece of evidence, if it wasn't from the dub. I'll give you chance to look up his original words in the manga about his battles with the Androids before I rip you to shreds.

Also, it was well established in DBZ both anime and manga that Babidi was several times stronger than Bibidi. So there's that.

You keep thinking I only know a little about Trunks and keep arguing in circles. Trunks has always fought in well populated areas, he is not as morale as Goku or Gohan and has never been. He's never shown an ounce of caring about battle near bystanders. Does that mean he wants them to die? No, but he also doesn't show the extra effort to move battles to protect them and your argument is that he wouldn't go all out because of the crew and you're wrong.

Now tell me more about how I'm wrong, please. I'm giving you a chance to save face. There are several examples I can show of Trunks both showing no mercy to his enemies and fighting in populated areas. Why is him showing no mercy to his enemies important? Because you suggest that because he fights with the Z Fighters that he must have their mentality but he doesn't. Trunks has shown time and time again that he wants nothing more than to take out his enemy. He doesn't give them a chance to power up or get a leg up in battle, he ends it. That's what he'd do here. He'd see his enemy, speed blitz him and take him out before he had a chance to react. Rounds over, Trunks advances.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

You gave me an example of Trunks helping up an old bystander after shooting an energy blast right next to his face and after fighting a battle with two Androids in the immediate vicinity. That right there also proves that Trunks doesn't care to protect bystanders as you claim. If you fail to see how your own video proves my point then you're in denial or intentionally dense. I'll let you decide.

You have opted to ignore what Trunks says in said video. Okay.

And when you say they moved the battle with Raditz, who are you referring to? Stupid me, I thought you were talking about the Z Fighters because, you know, that's your whole argument but they didn't move the battle. Goku and Krillin actually started the battle with Raditz on Roshi's island. Raditz is the one that moved. You must mean the writers.

You're really hung up on this. If only you were hung up on the seven or so other instances I pointed out to you where the Z Warriors (that includes Trunks) purposefully take the fight away from civilians.

Also, this is a logical fallacy.

So because Trunks fights with the Z Fighters you say he has the same mentality as all of them? Well I guess so does Vegeta and Piccolo and Beerus. Let's go with that. Wait, didn't a portion of Goku and Beerus' battle take place in a city? Didn't Goku fight Majin Buu right over top of a city. You know, after powering up to SSJ3 and causing massive earth quakes and tidal waves. Goku has even once said not to worry about damage to earth or its people, that all they have to do is use the Dragon Balls. He fought all but two of the Shadow Dragons in cities. Yep, they always care for bystanders.

That's not what I said. You've taken logical fallacies to a whole new level.

And no. That's not meant to be insulting. What you just said is a logical fallacy and you should look it up so you can prevent it from happening again.

Also, I never said Trunks wasn't caring, my he didn't give a damn line was about collateral damage not about people in general. Everything in Trunks' past suggest that he doesn't care about collateral damage. Fighting in populated areas is what he has always done in his timelime and continues to do. That dialogue that you stole from the dub would be good piece of evidence, if it wasn't from the dub. I'll give you chance to look up his original words in the manga about his battles with the Androids before I rip you to shreds.

You're really stretching the definition of populated.

The Dub is canon, right? Why on earth you feel the need to try and contradict your own fanbase's universe and then throw out a lame "I'll rip you to shreds" is beyond me. Maybe you're taking this BZT thing a little too seriously, bro.

Also, it was well established in DBZ both anime and manga that Babidi was several times stronger than Bibidi. So there's that.

He did nothing but bring a guy back to life, something he couldn't do on his own, and he's considered powerful?

I take it back. If Babidi is strong in the DBZ Universe, Dumbledore would be a god. Trunks has his work cut out for him if Babidi was ever considered a threat.

You keep thinking I only know a little about Trunks and keep arguing in circles.

You literally got hung up about my Raditz comment for four posts. Let's not cast stones here.

I'd say your knowledge of Trunks in regards to dialogue, character development ,etc is pretty slim but your strengths are in how badly Trunks could beat somebody up. You said you knew DB, but you desire to ignore specific parts that made Trunks, a Z Warrior, someone to cheer for in favor of trying to win some tournament.

Trunks has always fought in well populated areas,

As a DBZ fan you know this is a lie.

he is not as morale as Goku

Well yeah, he doesn't stand there and let the villain get stronger.

or Gohan and has never been.

Arguable.

He's never shown an ounce of caring about battle near bystanders.

I really think you should provide some evidence. Because this is what it is like to argue in circles after showing you a video and canonical quotes. You do nothing but repeat yourself.

Does that mean he wants them to die? No, but he also doesn't show the extra effort to move battles to protect them and your argument is that he wouldn't go all out because of the crew and you're wrong.

He never killed civilians before. Why now?

He also wouldn't go all out because he'll blow up the ship and himself right along with it. That is another disadvantage.

"You're wrong" is the worst way to argue and is a clear sign of desperation.

Now tell me more about how I'm wrong, please.

Well I have asked you to show some clear evidence, like a video perhaps. Something I even did. And you have not done so. Asking me to show you how you're wrong is also a bad way to get your point across. You are looking for people to vote for Trunks I hope.

I'm giving you a chance to save face.

Don't be a douche. There's nothing for me to have to save face on. You argued like 4 pages on one guy without knowing anything about the other guy. Let's not get stupid here.

There are several examples I can show of Trunks both showing no mercy to his enemies and fighting in populated areas.

I see where this is going. I'll just repeat myself and hope you stop making the same argument.

You're missing the point. I'm not arguing that he hasn't fought in populated places. I'm arguing that he has problems with fighting in populated places. Like every Z Warrior does because, you know, they're supposed to be good guys and they take their big fights away from people like 100% of the time.

Why is him showing no mercy to his enemies important? Because you suggest that because he fights with the Z Fighters that he must have their mentality but he doesn't. Trunks has shown time and time again that he wants nothing more than to take out his enemy. He doesn't give them a chance to power up or get a leg up in battle, he ends it.

So Trunks doesn't have morals. This is what I am getting from the guy who says he's a DBZ fan. Because this is what my entire argument boiled down to. Dumbledore, however a good guy, has shown in the past that he lets civilians suffer to beat his opponent (RIP Ariana, again) and continued to do so afterward (MoM). Trunks, if he can help it, doesn't. He's on a spaceship with a high possibility of men, women, and children dying because Trunks is strong enough to break planets and all.

But if he doesn't have morals as you say, I have yet to see this phenomena and implore you to show me.

That's what he'd do here. He'd see his enemy, speed blitz him and take him out before he had a chance to react. Rounds over, Trunks advances.

You're ignoring key points made by me and others about what Dumbledore can do (like how he is just as fast as Trunks) and instead of a rebuttal you've regurgitated the last thing you said in your first post.

If you had argued Trunks grabbing Dumbledore and transmissioned them both to a nearby planet to fight, that would have been a sound argument that doesn't ignore Trunks's character. But instead you went with Trunks doesn't care about the people his friends care about so he'd just fight on the ship and if he kills a human, he kills a human. A narrative that doesn't coincide with anything DBZ produced and as a fan you should know better.

 

[SSJPhenom]

You have opted to ignore what Trunks says in said video. Okay.

Lord help me.

You're really hung up on this. If only you were hung up on the seven or so other instances I pointed out to you where the Z Warriors (that includes Trunks) purposefully take the fight away from civilians.

Yes I'm hung up on it because it proves you wrong. Also, using the Z Fighters as a generality to decide Trunks' mentality on collateral damage is asinine. Most of the instances you provided had fuck all to do with Trunks. I've already shot your Raditz one to shit. The Saiyan one had nothing to do with collateral damage, they wanted to find the strongest being on Earth so they went to Piccolo and Gohan who happaned to be in the middle of nowhere to train. It had nothing to do with moving the battle. Also, when the reporters and everyone showed up, did the Z Fighters try to protect them and move again? Your Cell example had nothing to do with Collateral damage. Cell chose the battlefield himself and the Z Fighters went to it. Now, where was Trunks' decisions in all of this. The only thing you've shown that has anything to do with Trunks and collateral damage is when he showed up to fight the Androids in his time. He didn't try to move that battle away from the old guy. He even almost blasted the guy. Proves my point for me.

Also, this is a logical fallacy.

That's not what I said. You've taken logical fallacies to a whole new level.

And no. That's not meant to be insulting. What you just said is a logical fallacy and you should look it up so you can prevent it from happening again.

How are those logical fallacies? I've given you examples, several, of the Z Fighters fighting around civilians and now they're fallacies. Okay.

You're really stretching the definition of populated.

The Dub is canon, right? Why on earth you feel the need to try and contradict your own fanbase's universe and then throw out a lame "I'll rip you to shreds" is beyond me. Maybe you're taking this BZT thing a little too seriously, bro.

Maybe I am. As far as the dub being canon, not really. The English dub misinterpreted so much from the original source material that it's ridiculous. That's why you think the Z Fighters are so moral when in actuality, Goku, in the source material never cared for being a hero. He was selfish and only wanted to fight the next strong opponents. So much so that he's even been the cause of a lot of the Earth's issues.

It's like me citing something from the Harry Potter movies but you and everyone else saying read the books. You read the manga. I accept the books are the original source material for Harry Potter. You should accept the manga as the original source material for DB.

He did nothing but bring a guy back to life, something he couldn't do on his own, and he's considered powerful?

I take it back. If Babidi is strong in the DBZ Universe, Dumbledore would be a god. Trunks has his work cut out for him if Babidi was ever considered a threat.

He was powerful and your comparison of the two is dim at best. Babidi could fly, teleport, could control and make stronger already powerful beings, and he could blow people up with a thought. Dumbledore can do all that to right?

You literally got hung up about my Raditz comment for four posts. Let's not cast stones here.

Because it proves you wrong, like your own video. Let me guess, that's not what you said though, right?

I'd say your knowledge of Trunks in regards to dialogue, character development ,etc is pretty slim but your strengths are in how badly Trunks could beat somebody up. You said you knew DB, but you desire to ignore specific parts that made Trunks, a Z Warrior, someone to cheer for in favor of trying to win some tournament.

I'd say my knowledge of Trunks' character is right on point. He's never tried to move battles to protect people and he's never held himself in check to protect people. Show me where he has.

As a DBZ fan you know this is a lie.

You're right, not always, but he has fought in populated areas and he didn't try to move the battle or keep himself in check.

I really think you should provide some evidence. Because this is what it is like to argue in circles after showing you a video and canonical quotes. You do nothing but repeat yourself.

I don't think I do need to provide evidence. Your own video shows his thoughts on fighting near civilians, yet you deny it. Yes or no, did Trunks try to move the battle away from the man? Did he decide to not go all out because of the man? Proves everything I need.

He never killed civilians before. Why now?

I never said he'd kill the people. You're twisting my words, but he wouldn't hold back on account of them either.

He also wouldn't go all out because he'll blow up the ship and himself right along with it. That is another disadvantage.

This is the argument you should've made. He wouldn't have to go all out to beat Dumbledore though.

"You're wrong" is the worst way to argue and is a clear sign of desperation.

But it's true.

Don't be a douche. There's nothing for me to have to save face on. You argued like 4 pages on one guy without knowing anything about the other guy. Let's not get stupid stupid

I know what the movies showed and in them Dumbledore is nowhere near powerful enough to beat Trunks. Aren't the movies canon? Why would you feel the need to contradict your own fan base?

So Trunks doesn't have morals. This is what I am getting from the guy who says he's a DBZ fan. Because this is what my entire argument boiled down to. Dumbledore, however a good guy, has shown in the past that he lets civilians suffer to beat his opponent (RIP Ariana, again) and continued to do so afterward (MoM). Trunks, if he can help it, doesn't. He's on a spaceship with a high possibility of men, women, and children dying because Trunks is strong enough to break planets and all.

I never said he didn't have morals. If that's what you got from what I've said, you're more dense than I thought. Trunks has only ever once directly tried to keep a civilian out of harm and that was his MOM. I'd imagine Dumbledore would save a person he cares for too. Your Z Fighter references were irrelevant. They had nothing to do with Trunks.

You're ignoring key points made by me and others about what Dumbledore can do (like how he is just as fast as Trunks) and instead of a rebuttal you've regurgitated the last thing you said in your first post.

I'm not ignoring what people have said. I don't think Dumbledore is as fast or as powerful as Trunks. Just everyone saying he is doesn't make it so. I've asked for examples showing that he is but nobody has done so. I'd change my mind if someone provided such evidence. Hell, you changed my mind on Wonder Woman and Bugs Bunny.

If you had argued Trunks grabbing Dumbledore and transmissioned them both to a nearby planet to fight, that would have been a sound argument that doesn't ignore Trunks's character. But instead you went with Trunks doesn't care about the people his friends care about so he'd just fight on the ship and if he kills a human, he kills a human. A narrative that doesn't coincide with anything DBZ produced and as a fan you should know better.

If you were really a DB fan you'd know that Trunks can't do the instantaneous movement. You'd also know that the narrative that you say doesn't exist only doesn't exist in the English dub. In the original manga and anime, that narrative is alive and well. Even today in DBS. Do your home work.

 

[ABMorales787]

Future Trunks is so comically uneducated in combat, its been a plot device many a times. Like when Cell beat the shit out of him because he couldn't tell his bulky muscles were slowing him down. Or every time he'd fight the androids on pure impulse and get his ass handed to him.

Point is, when he fights something new, he's dumb as bricks. Not to mention, he's HIGHLY emotional. More than young Gohan. His track record is nothing but failure because he doesn't think. He got his master killed for not listening, created various timelines without thinking, one which led to near disaster by giving us Perfect Cell, he was killed twice by him and that's all without getting into the whole Goku Black mess. Which, much lime everything else with Trunks, he'd have dealt with it better if he used his head.

As for Dumbledore? The man was a concern for Lord Moldybutt. He was the most powerf wizard in the world, was an extremely intellinget man and had everyone fearing him. Guilt killed Dumbledore, basically. It was family matter. It wasn't a fight.

Time and time again, its shown that if Trunks can't straight up overpower a foe, which he can't do here because he's never faced a wizard, he ain't gonna win.

Plus, he flirts with children. And that's not fucking right.

 

[SSJPhenom]

He has faced a wizard though. He faced Babidi in his time and killed him. So all of your arguments, while honestly true and the best so far against Trunks, are moot because he's faced the most powerful wizard in his universe and killed him.

BTW, Mai was the one flirting with him. All he did was tell her how he knew the adult version of her. Also, Mai is technically an adult. She was accidentally wished back into a physical child by Pilaf fucking up his wish on the Dragon Balls.

 

[ABMorales787]

He has faced a wizard though. He faced Babidi in his time and killed him. So all of your arguments, while honestly true and the best so far against Trunks, are moot because he's faced the most powerful wizard in his universe and killed him.

With help from a god for one. Secondly, Babidi wasn't "the most powerful wizard". Who the hell ever said he was? Its been pointed out Bibidi was better for one and secondly, the range of magic either one displayed was hardly impressive. And before you say it, Bibidi did not create Majin Buu. He found him. So, no. Him beating Babidi with due preparation and help? Not really saying much for capt' blue hair dye.

BTW, Mai was the one flirting with him. All he did was tell her how he knew the adult version of her. Also, Mai is technically an adult. She was accidentally wished back into a physical child by Pilaf fucking up his wish on the Dragon Balls.

Why would you even choose to defend this?

 

[SSJPhenom]

Kaioshin trained Trunks yes, but he did not help him beat Dabura or Babidi and no, Bibidi was not better than Babidi. In the manga, when the Z Fighters and Kaioshin were following Spoppovich and Yamu, Kaioshin clearly said that he defeated Bibidi but that he had a clone who had grown more powerful called Babidi. Also, they were powerful. As I've already said, they had the powers of your regular Z Fighter; flight, ki manipulation, etc, but they could also control and make already powerful beings more powerful, teleport, blow people up with a thought, create force shields, communicate with every living person on Earth at once. They might not have been Z Fighter powerful but they damn sure were wizard powerful.

I defended that because you brought it up but didn't tell the whole story. You tried to paint as, "oh he's a pedo, don't vote for him". So if you're going to try and paint Trunks as a pedophile, I figured everyone should know exactly why he was talking to kid Mai. He damn sure wasn't flirting with her.

 

[Lee]

He has faced a wizard though. He faced Babidi in his time and killed him. So all of your arguments, while honestly true and the best so far against Trunks, are moot because he's faced the most powerful wizard in his universe and killed him.

Babidi isn't even the strongest wizard by a long shot. Dumbledore is.

BTW, Mai was the one flirting with him. All he did was tell her how he knew the adult version of her. Also, Mai is technically an adult. She was accidentally wished back into a physical child by Pilaf fucking up his wish on the Dragon Balls.

So they fell in love with a child? Awkward really?

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Is the Normandy in flight while this fight takes place? If so, Joker will really be put to the test, but I have a feeling he can handle it. He is the best damn helmsman in the whole Alliance after all.

I'm leaning toward Dumbledore here. I'm not really a fan of either character's respective universe, but in a universe full of powerful wizards, Dumbledore is top dog. Trunks isn't even the best Saiyan in the DBZ universe. Good, but not the best.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Babidi isn't even the strongest wizard by a long shot. Dumbledore is.

So they fell in love with a child? Awkward really?

No, Trunks fell in love with the adult version of Mai in his time. In the present time, Mai is physically a little kid, but only because her boss, Pilaf, fucked up a wish for eternal youth and got them turned into kids again. Mai was actually an adult in Dragon Ball when Goku was a kid. The Pilaf gang was Goku's first big bad.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Is the Normandy in flight while this fight takes place? If so, Joker will really be put to the test, but I have a feeling he can handle it. He is the best damn helmsman in the whole Alliance after all.

I'm leaning toward Dumbledore here. I'm not really a fan of either character's respective universe, but in a universe full of powerful wizards, Dumbledore is top dog. Trunks isn't even the best Saiyan in the DBZ universe. Good, but not the best.

Actually, in his time, Trunks is far and away the best. Also, he's fought a wizard before. Dumbledore has not fought a Saiyan or anything close to one.

Dumbledore points his wand, Trunks moves at damn near light speed to get close to Dumbledore and he punches Dumbledore out. I really don't know how this can be debated. Allow me to introduce Trunks:

[YOUTUBE]OQjUG6hFCyw[/YOUTUBE]

Kills several villians in about a second

[YOUTUBE]LMcLs69vXtI[/YOUTUBE]

Catches and easily handles a planet desyroying energy blast with one hand.

[YOUTUBE]iGMtXqo1N9E[/YOUTUBE]

Viciously killing Freeza

[YOUTUBE]DOVXcnQN10w[/YOUTUBE]

I know that this isn't Future Trunks but it's funny. He barely punches the STRONGEST NORMAL HUMAN ALIVE and sends him flying.

That's about 10% of Trunks' feats.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

There's really not much of a reason to continue the morality carousel of "Prove it, no you prove it" that has reared its ugly head. That and the Attacking the Evidence Fallacy has no place in a civil debate. So instead I'm taking the high road and going to the core of the argument on why Dumbledore should beat Trunks, which is the focus of this thread anyways.

I'm not ignoring what people have said. I don't think Dumbledore is as fast or as powerful as Trunks. Just everyone saying he is doesn't make it so. I've asked for examples showing that he is but nobody has done so. I'd change my mind if someone provided such evidence. Hell, you changed my mind on Wonder Woman and Bugs Bunny.

We have given you specific abilities he has. Dumbledore can apparate, which in the DBZ Universe is the same as Instant Transmission:

He has a vast knowledge of spells that he never has to say or use his wand for-

[YOUTUBE]6GPS8Xe8wIU[/YOUTUBE]
@ 2:05

He demonstrated wandless magic in the film adaptations of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, and Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince; transfiguring the Slytherin banners in the Great Hall to that of Gryffindor's, saving Harry Potter from falling to his death during a Quidditch match (as well as extinguishing and re-igniting a candle), summoning the Champions' names from the Goblet of Fire (after dimming the Great Hall's light sources), repeatedly repelling Harry Potter back from his duel with Lord Voldemort, and (after again, dimming the lights in his office) setting a young Tom Riddle's (Voldemort's) wardrobe on fire respectively.

So Dumbledore doesn't even need his wand which is the most powerful wand in the franchise, and since you said you've watched the movies, you already know this. Dumbledore has a range of abilities that would make the "powerful" Babidi have wet dreams about.

Now imagine what he could do if he used The Elder Wand, one of the Deathly Hallows, one of the three most powerful items even in the movies.

He is Gandalf. He is Merlin. Like I'm pretty sure Rowling ripped those characters off to make Dumbledore.

Trunks has to move to do anything. Dumbledore sets shit on fire just by looking at it.

If you were really a DB fan you'd know that Trunks can't do the instantaneous movement.

I'm not a DBZ fan. Now we know Trunks can't teleport but Dumbledore can. Another disadvantage he has in this fight.

BTW, Mai was the one flirting with him. All he did was tell her how he knew the adult version of her. Also, Mai is technically an adult. She was accidentally wished back into a physical child by Pilaf fucking up his wish on the Dragon Balls.

Well that makes all the difference.

Vote Dumbledore. He doesn't mess with little girls.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Nice evidence, but spells that can actually hurt Trunks, can he summon silently? That killing one for instance? Lighting candle, dimming lights, and even setting Trunks clothes on fire isn't going to hurt him. Also, no Trunks can not teleport, he can just move extremely fast. I mean, it looks like he's teleporting, but no not really. And he doesn't have to move to do damage to Dumbledore. He can simply power up. I assume you've seen the damage that powering up has done to environments and weaker opponents. Not to mention an energy explosion that his father was famous for. Those don't require movements.

If anything, Trunks isn't going to lose without hurting Dumbledore. I think they'd take each other out before that happened. Battle goes to far and they accidentally destroy the ship. It's happened to lesser beings.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

In the various gifs of wandless magic, I showed you Dumbledore setting things on fire. Fire hurts saiyans. The Red Ribbon Army used a flamethrower on Goku and it badly hurt him. Trunks is not even a full saiyan. It's no stretch to assume it would fuck his world up.