Official Raw/Smackdown Aftermath, Ratings and Review Thread

[Барбоса]

Once again Vince and the backstage team of WWE show how great they can be. Sure one who has looked at the internet in the past three months knew that Y2J would be back this past Monday but still they put on a great show. The camera work could have been better with the whole clothesline on the torch barer as it was too much of Jericho was shown. However, everything after that was fantastic. The unveiling of SAVE_US Y2J made me feel good while the pause before the classic Y2J countdown sent a shiver down my spine. The whole code thing from the start was a great idea. I would actually have liked it to interrupt more live television such as during interviews and even match coverage, especially if it was decided that Jericho was going after the WWE champion. I only hope and prey that Jericho is not buried and that the feud with Orton can last until Wrestlemania. As much as I love watching them, I am sick of HBK or HHH being the main events on RAW. Vince and co. should build Jericho and Orton for the next PPV, which Orton should win/not lose the title and then have him avoid Jericho at all costs, forcing Y2J to enter and win the Royal Rumble, leading to a several months long build up to Wrestlemania. Jericho has the pulling power as the return saviour while surely Orton has been built up as the dastardly heel so he can make it to Wrestlemania as the champion... then again stranger things have happened...

 

[majestic-marcus]

Though it is awesome to have Jericho back I have to agree with an earlier post that that was the gayest waistcoat of ALL TIME! Other than the waiscoat incident, RAW has been 1 of the best in a long time and Jericho did pull off the best promo in WWE probably since he left (with the possible exception of everything Edge has ever said)! This man is just phenomenal on the mic!

As far as Jeff and HHH go im curious to see what WWE r goin to do with this, though im disgusted that Snitsky has been brought into the storyline. The only time Snitsky has been enjoyable to watch was as the pervert with a foot fetish back in his Edge/Kane/Lita rivalry!

 

[lexilee]

I think that Jeff Hardy and Triple H would make an amazing team. They are both great entertainers and each bring something different to the table. Jeff's high flying moves and the way he brings the crowd into his matches is perfect, and Triple H's evil yet crowd pleasing tactics are the best. I did not see this coming but it was a very good idea.

As for Chris Jericho, I definitely agree with the idea that they should not have shown him clothesline the marathon runner. That definitely gave it away. If they just played his music, the crowd wouldve been louder. I felt that he was trying a little too hard to be like the old Jericho when he was talking. He is such an amazing entertainer and I think it comes natural to him. He just needs to let it flow. He was out of breath a couple times.

But all in all, I would LOVE to see Orton get HIS head kicked off and the belt taken away from him.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

RAW turned out to be a great episode indeed, minus clothslining the runner. Other than that, HHH/Hardy is a great team, though I smell a feud in the future (HOW BACKWARDS WOULD HELL JEFF VS. FACE HHH BE?!).

And... I'm starting to REALLY like Umaga. Is it like a full moon or something?

 

[lexilee]

omg tonight was one of the best RAWs ever. I loved Santino Marella's bit. KYJ. LMAO it was so funny. and when they were arguing about his name. Haha. That definitely made me laugh. And i think Hornswoggle is the cutest thing ever. That was so funny with him going into the wall.

And I cannot wait for the Triple H vs Jeff Hardy match. That is going to be a great one.

But, without a doubt, the best part was when Jericho came out and helped Flaire win!! Orton doesnt deserve to be the champ any more. I'm not saying that Jericho deserves it, cuz i know he just got there and even though he has a lot of championships under his belt, he still is new to the business right now and should, like any other person, have to prove themselves. I think that if tehy gave him a title shot this early, it would make this feud and his run short and redundant. It definitely would not last till Wrestlemania!!!

All in all, RAW was awesome. I LOVE THE WWE!!

 

[No Count Pup]

Tonight was a hot RAW. Flair and Jericho shined. Having those two stars back on the flagship show is a breath of fresh air.

Armageddon is suddenly an attractive pay-per-view. Kudos to the writers for an effective hard sell.

Jericho was tons of fun tonight. He is this generation's Piper. And folks, that ain't a bad thing.

The opening was a fun tag match and Hardy looked like a million bucks. I'm sure people weren't happy to see Snitsky in the "main event" but that is irrelevant. The whole point was to put over Hardy and set up his match with Triple H.

I loved the backstage segment with Triple H and Jeff Hardy. Trips had a heel edge during the promo. I might be the only person that was pumped, but I miss the heel Triple H. He's a natural "bad guy", despite Bishoff's objection.

Let's give Raw credit when it's good. The show was in rare form tonight. And the Flair storyline might be among the most compelling in years.

 

[theoptimusman]

a good ppv and 2 great raws in a row.......this is unbelievable....

THE Orton FLAIR MATCH WAS GREAT......unbelievable way to BEGIN AND CONTINUE flairs road while not hurting ortons image and continue him and jericho

the jericho santino or santito was great too lol

umaga getting beat again is bothering me but ..... i guess i;ll deal with it.....

hardy is taking off but will triple h bury a great run/push of the jeff meister !

and is it me or is mickie james getting better and hotter everytime she appears !

only other negative other than umaga squash was kennedys weak ass promo....

overall great show.....great watch.....great times......i cannot wait to go to the 3 hour raw !

OPT !

 

[Sicko]

Was a good show, would have been a better show if the crowd was behind it, they should never go to that city again LOL

anyway Y2J was entertaining, tried to get the crowd going but they was all I don't know sleep or something LOL

good to see Flair back but that was kinda fast, Flair having to fight fight for his career every week should be very interesting

and I must agree I hate that mr nice guy "helping Jeff Hardy" HHH, he is much better as a heel

my question, is Y2J being pushed too soon, to come in a leap frog over everybody is kinda weird but then again after the HBK fued I don't know who else Orton could fued with so I guess Y2J is perfect timing, look like it is going to be very entertaining, I would like see a long fued with Santino and Y2J also though

 

[TheOneBigWill]

TheOneBigWill's "take" on Monday Night Raw: November 26th, 2007:

Matches:

Triple H. & Jeff Hardy v. Umaga & Snitsky: Overall, the match wasn't too prolonged & carried out which is what I feared would happen. I have faith that Triple H., Jeff Hardy & Umaga could've carried it.. but Snitsky is the unknown.

I'm slightly shocked that they didn't open with Ric Flair, to be honest. I figured this match would've ended hour one. The big "shock" of the match came after it was over.. & instead of William Regal making two fairly decent matches for Armageddon, he decides to W.W.E. it up.. Triple H. v. Jeff Hardy. Hmmm.. So, Triple H. has become so bored with burying heels, he's now building faces, then matching up against them when he feels they've reached a peak?!

Hardcore Holly, Cody Rhodes, Super Crazy & Hacksaw Jim Duggan v. Lance Cade, Trevor Murdoch & The Highlanders: Could you please explain why. I mean, Rhodes & Holly v. the Tag Team Champions is understandable, but is it really even needed to have Hacksaw teaming with Super Crazy? Why not London & Kendrick.. (which I'll get to later)

Thankfully this match was over in the amount of time it took me to walk downstairs to the bathroom & back up.

Chris Jericho v. Santino Marella: I hoped, I begged, I pleaded with Jericho's first interference to be from Santino, at least I got what I wanted. Thankfully, Santino saved Jericho's promo.. seriously, Jericho is getting better.. but I think this shows everyone just how much W.W.E. loves Santino on the mic. to match him with Jericho the week after his debut.

The overall match was nothing more than to show the world Jericho could still go. Santino got a nice cheap shot in on Lawler before it ever began to likely set up his own match at the p.p.v. (or 3 hour anniversary show, in TWO WEEKS!) Jericho's new finisher, the "Codebreaker", is nothing more than a T.N.A. X-Division wrestler's normal move.. but exciting none the less. I think it'll do him well, much like Orton's R.K.O., Jericho can likely hit the "Codebreaker" out of any position.

Mr. Kennedy v. Brain Kendrick: Remember when I mentioned Londrick earlier? Yeah.. why couldn't Kennedy easily of squashed Super Crazy, instead of Kendrick? I mean.. obviously pairing Crazy with Duggan, there are no major plans of pushing him anywhere.. at least with Londrick you have a solid team.

This match was pointless & showed the world what? Kennedy can squash a guy that has the speed H.B.K. had 10 times of, at that age?

#1. Contender's Match: Melina v. Mickie James: It may of been better to have seen a Mickie James v. Michelle McCool match, at least then it would've added SLIGHT mystery to who Phoenix's opponent would've been.

None the less, the two top divas currently on Raw fighting for the p.p.v. spot. James wins, like predicted, & will hopefully put on a great match-up. Hey, anyone remember that James & Phoenix actually HAD a storyline long before Phoenix broke her jaw, or whatever that put her on the shelve forever?! I'm curious if they'd bring that back up.

Promos:

Flair Promo:The Ric Flair promo is always a classic to view. The man breaks down on the way to the ring anymore. He can truly sell those tears. I seriously don't know if I'm ready for Ric Flair to retire. I know he's way passed his prime, but its gonna be like me toward Shawn Michaels when the time comes.. I know it'll be whats best.. but like hell if I'll want it to ever happen.

Hardy/H.H.H. Backstage: So, are they building Hardy to be a prick? Because he came off that way. Triple H. is telling the truth though.. he's never teamed with anyone he didn't turn against, so in all fairness.. this team of H.H.Hardy is falling apart in record time. (& to think I felt Regal's announcement was going to be H.H.Hardy v. Cade/Murdoch for the Tag Team titles)

Kennedy Promo: It could've likely been funnier had Shawn sold his own products, but I think Kennedy did a good job none the less. I'm personally buying it, simply because it has the title "Shawn Michaels" on it. And this was a great promo by Kennedy to hype their mega showdown even more. I truly am looking forward to it.

Horsemen Reunion: *sigh* I'll likely never get my true wish, but when I seen them show Arn Anderson & Barry Windham, I truly had a glimmer of hope that a new Horsemen ara, was about to begin tonight. *sigh* bastards.

Hornswoggle/Carlito Backstage: Seriously, tell me the creative team didn't just write Hornswoggle "Road-Runnering" his ass through a wall, only for Carlito to smack into it head on. I think Ron Simmons should've said "CANNED!!" instead of "Damn!" because this is truly what Carlito is being. Why does he even continue to show up? Seriously, I give him all the credit in the world for being capable enough to deal with the shit.

Main Event: Retirement Match: Ric Flair v. Randy Orton: I know I'm jumping about 2 shows ahead (anniversary show.. in TWO WEEKS!!!) but they could've made this match for the W.W.E. Championship, then had Orton getting DQed.. I doubt anyone seriously thought Flair would retire the same night his apparent last storyline would start. I see this going to Wrestlemania, but it could end as quickly as say.. the Royal Rumble, only to have Flair get screwed by Vince McMahon, or someone else, setting up a WM match. Overall.. I hope Ric Flair gets the World Championship one last time. I truly do.

Biggest Pop: Ric Flair

Most Shocking: Hornswoggle's "Road-Runner" impression

Worst Match: Mr. Kennedy v. Brian Kendrick

Overall Rating: 8/10: Having Chris Jericho back does up the rating. Ric Flair being placed into this storyline will also increase the rating, due to never "officially" knowing when he may or may not lose.

They seriously need to end the Hornswoggle/Carlito skits & either kill Carlito off, or just don't write him on anymore. The guy's talent will destroy W.W.E. upon his T.N.A. arrival, & all they're doing is sadly trying to bury the guy as fast as they can.

Jeff Hardy & Triple H. will be a great match, as long as it doesn't have the predicted Umaga/Snitsky run-ins to end it, or have a "bad ending." (where one doesn't know the other got hit by outsiders)

 

[8five]

Ok, it was a good show
Jericho was funny
Santino was funny
Hornswoggle been funnier
Carlito shouldn't have to be put through this
HHH v hardy will not put hardy over anymore because they dont want HHH with gold yet so it isnt for the belt but he isnt losing because he married the bosses daughter so he doesnt ever have to lose another match if he doesnt want to
Kennedy should use the downward spiral it works well for him
Brian Kendrick is not a jobber and putting him in that spot was ridiculous
Paul London is not a jobber and yet he jobbed to Charlie Haas on Heat?
Ric Flair deserves his final run and I'm happy hes getting it
I hate the fact jericho is not using the walls of jericho or the lionsault and instead doing some lame ass facebuster/code breaker bullshit
All in all was a good show but could've been better
O and Hacksaw I'm sre but its not the 70s, 80s, or early 90s and u really don't have it anymore

 

[Robby2Slobby]

The Lionsault is a dangerous move.. Jericho may not be capable of doing it anymore.. Or maybe he feels the need to ease into the move, get more into ring shape, shake out the bugs before doing the move again.

However, I think he'll still do the Walls... It's just they wanted to debut his new finisher for this match.

 

[lexilee]

overall great show.....great watch.....great times......i cannot wait to go to the 3 hour raw !

OPT !

IM GOING TO IT TOO!!! HAHAHAH I CANT WAITT!!! LOL I went to the one in boston where Randy Orton kicked John Cena's Dad in the head. I fucking hate Orton...


And, I like the codebreaker. I think that once he uses it more, people will get used to it and like it more. It's just because we're not used to it yet.

 

[olliek92]

Triple H. & Jeff Hardy v. Umaga & Snitsky: this was supposedly the main event according to jerry lawler before the show. it didn't live up to expectation in my opinion. I mean when jeff was in the ring with snitsky he looked scared and tagged himself out straight away, now for a wrester who is supposed to be getting a huge push at the moment this just didn't make sense! Umaga got crushed which is a bad thing because recently his performances have been improving. Overall it was an easy win for HHH and Hardy, although snitsky was once again made to look dominating. Quite a good twist at the end with the match at Armageddon i think this is the start of HHH turning heel and setting himself up with a title shot at WM.

match rating: 6/10

Ric Flair Promo: mehh, usual ric flair stuff...was hinting at retiring then smashed it down and said he'd never retire. i think mcmahon coming out and telling him next time he loses he is out is a good storyline and it could last up till wrestlemania with him winning every match he is in then having one last title run.

Hardcore Holly, Cody Rhodes, Super Crazy & Hacksaw Jim Duggan vs. Lance Cade, Trevor Murdoch & The Highlanders.: this was god awfully boring people like jim duggan and super crazy belong on heat smackdown or ecw not the number one brand...this was the only downside to tonights show with holly picking up the win for the team.

match rating 4/10


Backstage promo (jeff hardy, HHH) adding importance to the match at Armageddon HHH doing his normal i dont have friends, i wont be your friend i will be the game crap...which again is indicating at a heel change.

Backstage promo (kennedy): well this wasn't great but i guess it was selling merchandise. would of been better if hbk came in and super kicked him, picked up a dvd and walks off or something.

Jericho and Santino Promo: my favorite bit of the whole night...was laughing out loud at the santaan? santa maria? santrino? bit and the whole promo just showcased the 2 best mic workers in the wwe today. was very happy to see this.

Jericho vs Santino : yeah i liked this, a good match to get jericho back in the grove, he looked slightly slow but above the standard of most the wwe talent today, santino didn't actually look too bad. new finisher for jericho was okay....i'd give it 7/10 it was quick decisive and looked like it could hurt.

match rating 8/10 purely because i love jericho

Mr. Kennedy vs. Brian Kendrick: poor kendrick he's better than a 1 minute loss to kennedy! nice move at the end by kennedy (flat liner) looked like it hurt. kendrick must of got on someones bad side for this!

match rating 6/10


backstage promo (mcmahon, hornswoggle, carlito, simmons) was actually quite funny in a childish way! i really don't want to see carlito go, but i see it inevitable in time, i think he's funny, good on the mic, not bad in the ring and a good heel, he's intercontinental class definitely, i'd move him to ECW definitely because i like him!


Mickie James vs. Melina for a shot at the Women's Title mehh boring mickie james wins with a ddt...then does some pointing to beth phoenix who is at ringside...

match rating 5/10


Flair vs Orton: i loved this match! it was actually a good contest even tho flair is nearing 60 now! when the figure 4 was locked in it brought a real smile to my face...then i thought when he got rko'd that was it cos the foot couldnt get on the rope but luckily the hand did. then a good distraction by jericho let flair use a low blow and pin 1-2-3...was very happy with this last match

match rating 8/10

biggest pop: jericho or flair (crowd were shocking throughout)

biggest heat: orton

worst promo: kennedy lacked everything

best promo: jericho santino made me laugh out loud!

overall rating: 9/10 loved this show best for months!

 

[RuKDaD]

I think that was the best Raw in a while. There was less talking and more wrestling, and the talking that went on was every bit great. At first when Jericho was waiting for Orton and Marella's music hit I was confused, but then I smiled because I knew the Mic action would be great which it was. The show opening up with a match was a great relief and a pretty good match itself with HHH and Jeff Hardy against Umaga and Snitsky. The topping on the cake had to be the Flair - Orton match. It was a pretty long match for todays standards. Even though Flair is limited to his trademark chops anymore he still took some rough bumps. It was a good match to watch and it even reminded me of some of the Flair - Sting matches from the late 80's early 90's. Melina and Mickie James was obviously some Monday Night Football time, just long enough to get filled in on the game and not miss anything important on Raw. Its funny how now we see some good Raws before the 15 year Anniversary. That should be one of the best shows we have seen in years.

 

[lexilee]

Melina and Mickie James was obviously some Monday Night Football time,

i hate that people think the diva matches are boring. yes, ill agree to a certain extent but im an aspiring diva and when/if i get into the business i want to change it. i want to make them more involved. i know that the divas are more important for other things than wrestling like the gimmicks and photo shoots and to attact guys and stuff like that but they are still wrestlers as their main job.

 

[A-Bomb]

I guess I'm going to have to be the party pooper here....

I thought the Hornswoggle/Carlito thing was absolutely horrible. There's cute/funny, and then there's completely ridiculous. I enjoy some comedy relieve in pro wrestling, but this was just way too much. I was even willing to let it slide when they did the TNT explosion thing under the ring a while back. That was pushing it, but I still enjoyed it.

Asking me to suspend disbelief long enough to buy that a couple of wrestlers can throw each other around the ring and beat the crap out of each other with no bruises is one thing. I can do that, and I enjoy it. But expecting me to sit and watch as a midget paints himself a door and runs through it? Am I really the only one who thought this sucked really really badly? Maybe I'm the minority on this one.

Regarding the Flair/Orton match, I'm on the fence. It had good and bad elements. It was good to see Flair pull some classic maneuvers (figure 4, the low blow), but he looked REALLY tired out there. He was on the mat most of the time, it seemed. I'd love to see Flair get the big send-off he deserves, but I'm not sure if he can put on good matches all the way to Wrestlemania. I'm going to go watch some of the classic matches from the 4 Horsemen DVD to put myself in a better mood, lol.

 

[robwylde90]

I dont really get this stuff with carlito , the guy hands in his notice but hes now getting more air time than he has for months....Im not quite sure carlitos done yet.
The codebreaker sucked. When i heard jericho had a new finisher i thought it would be innovative and something new , thinking it had to be better than the lionsault for him to justify it . Instead we get a flip backstabber, a double knee facebuster, wtf is that?
The Orton - Flair match was fuckin epic , best match on raw in quite some time , the crowd had such a bad reaction to pretty much everything , especially orton , you could hear a pin drop for 3/4 of the show.
Finally, if HBK and HHH win at armageddon then il have lost hope of a new generation of main eventers ever materialising. This is WWEs big chance to elevate the midcarders with the biggest pops and heat , at the same PPv. Knowing WWE however, both hardy and kennedy will job , and the old men will rule the main event scene forever until as ric flair said, they are "dead in that ring".

 

[JuggaloHomie666]

Ok Im Really Only Going To Talk About The One Match I Liked. Jericho vs Santino *surprise surprise* It Was Pretty Quick. The Build Up Bantering Shit Was Pretty Funny But The Santino Not Getting His Name Was Fucking Stupid. Seriously I REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEALY Need To Know Why This Shit Gets Onto T.V.! *deep blackmans voice* DAMN!!!!!!! Ok So The Double Knee Face Buster The Codebreaker Was Kinda Fucking Stupid You Know.

 

[karazmatic]

yea i thought raw was amazing to. i mean that flair and orton match was off the hook. i'm glad flair won but i wished it was clean with a figure four lock. the jericho match was a bit weak i thought. it was entertaining but i thought they could of had a better oppenent like london. i no it wouldn't be much of a match but it defently would of been exciting like a high flyer vs a co highflyer/ techinacal wrestler.

but i am confused with the jeff/hhh match at armageddon. i mean why would trips come in and say he isn't friends with jeff it just doesn't make sense. because now jeff is out of the title picture for another 18 years and triple h is not in it either. i think it will be a horrible match. i mean when was the last time you saw a high flyer and a power house have a great match. also this match is 2 precidable. jeff is defently gonna win the loose at rumble but then win at no way out. then the fued ends there. that would just be a waste of the fued because it didn't go till mania, or wasn't long enough for these people to fued for or ifm it did go to mania then it will be a waste aswell because jeff misses another money in the bank and trips is gonna look like a looser not bein in a match at mania. he cant vs kennedy because kennedy will be in the wwe title match ( he was gonna be in the main event any way)
. hhh cant be in the money in the bank match to because it doesn't suit him. and there is no other superstar to vs him. so wwe has just stuffed up making jeff hardy vs hhh at armaggedon because of this raw. but other trhan that i'm happy

 

[instant classic Dan]

I thought Raw was ok at best. The first match was bland imo apart from the end(but anything involving Snitsky is a dud). I loved the Jericho segment with Santino match was ok aswell. I loled when Jerry Lawler said a big win for those 4 young men and two of them were 43 year old Bob Holly and 55 year old Jim Duggan. I liked the Jericho/Santino segment and the match was ok. I thought the Diva match was alright and i liked the mainevent cause Flair is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time.Also the Hornswoggle skit was abysmal and made me feel dumb to be watching Raw.
Match review
Snitsky & Umaga v Triple H & Hardy
*3/4
8 man tag
*1/2
Jericho v Santino
**
Melina v Mickie
*1/2
kendrick v kennedy
dud
Flair v orton
**1/2
overall i give the show a 5.5 out of 10 not because of the inring action but the promos were very well done.

 

[awesumx]

This was a good raw but like everything it had its up and downs. The opening match was average at its best. Snitsky is possibly the worst wrestler to ever step foot in the ring. He has no skills and cannot sell his pain or the bumps worth anything. No wonder he only wrestles for 30 seconds at a time. The announcement of Jeff hardy vs. HHH is bogus everyone knows how this is going to go HHH will manhandle him in the beggining then hell get tired and Jeff will do all his high flying maneuvers, finally he will slip up somewhere and HHH will catch him with a pedigree. Come on WWE writers come up with something original and stop regurgitating every thing over and over again. Mr. Kennedy is a great talent and they were pushing him hard on smackdown now thats hes moved to raw theyve made him a mid carder whats the point in having him and HBk wrestle thats just wasting time. After this match Kennedy needs to shake HBK's hand and become a face and entertain us like john cena did with his mic skills. For god sakes Mr. kennedy is a young talent give him a storyline where he can thrive and succeed in the main event spot. The 8 man tag match was quite interesting and tag team action needs to be used more with tornado tags or whatever WWE can do to spice things up. The womens wrestling on Raw is excellent the girls are getting more and more advanced and their move selections are improving greatly. Chris Jerichos return match was great and the code breaker who dosnt like that move that was a great addition. Now imagine this Jericho wins the title sumwhere down the line and then Mr. Kenedy and Jericho feud could u imagine the promos we could get out of that. Ric flair is one of the greats and his match was enjoyable he is getting old tho and looked a little winded after his match but any match is a great match if Randy Orton gets his ass kicked.

 

[Nev]

I remember back in the summer of 2005(which had the best summerslam sincee 1992) there was on raw a lumberjack match and snitsky actually put up a good fiight on cena; he was on the mat 80% of the time.

I'm hoping Hardy doesnt win the rumble, I was already pissed when Batista won which gave the most boring champion a huge push. Can this guy ever get out the picture and place Edge, Taker, and throw Cena in SD! since about everyone wants Jericho to be the mic guy on RAW.

RAW was good; Damn it Flair, he can not wrestle that much longer. His durablity is poor and will put on boring matches if this 'you lose--you're FIRED!' match happens every main event.

 

[lexilee]

I'm hoping Hardy doesnt win the rumble, I was already pissed when Batista won which gave the most boring champion a huge push. Can this guy ever get out the picture and place Edge, Taker, and throw Cena in SD! since about everyone wants Jericho to be the mic guy on RAW.

ok first of all, batista is an amazing wrestler and he is absolutely one of the best in the business.

second, Cena will stay on RAW. i cannot believe you said that. wow. Jericho has excellant mic skills and is very entertaining but john cena is equally entertaining and equally skillful. they can both be there.

 

[a0161613]

ok first of all, batista is an amazing wrestler and he is absolutely one of the best in the business.

second, Cena will stay on RAW. i cannot believe you said that. wow. Jericho has excellant mic skills and is very entertaining but john cena is equally entertaining and equally skillful. they can both be there.

Batista??? Cena??? Amazing and skillful?

Yes they are.

Amazing and skillful at sending 95% of the arena to sleep!

When their "great" matches rely on HBK and Taker (among others) carrying them at WM for example, then they cannot be considered great.

 

[robwylde90]

Batista??? Cena??? Amazing and skillful?

Yes they are.

Amazing and skillful at sending 95% of the arena to sleep!

When their "great" matches rely on HBK and Taker (among others) carrying them at WM for example, then they cannot be considered great.

Look Im by no means a cena or batista fan , but the arena aint asleep when theyr in the ring buddy, Cena always gave 100% and even though i may have wanted him to get beat 96% of the time , I certainly didnt fall asleep. and really even though im not a fan of the whole small moveset kinda thing , some of the best in the business have had the same agenda.

anyway to move onto your other point , those two great matches you pointed out werent simply the work of HBK and taker , cena and batista did ther fair share as well , cena kinda less i suppose (sell the leg man , sell the leg!)but really cena and batista have both put on great matches without the "carrying" of recognised legends like HBK and taker, like cena-umaga at the rumble '07 and batista-khali-mysterio at unforgiven '07.