*OFFICIAL* Old School Wrestling Discussion (Attitude Era to PG Era Discussion ONLY)

[Shocky]

I liked the storylines, but Austin didn wow ms in the ring in 1998. I understand why. The neck stinger really changed the type of wrestler he was. I liked the main event but it didn't wow me.

Triple H and The Rock put on fantastic matches at Fully Loaded and Summerslam. The triple threat cage match at Breakdown was also awesome.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Was going for main event guys, but yeah, Rock and HHH were great. Several guys had a great year in terms of wrestling - Rock, HHH, Owen, Shamrock, Foley, Taka Michinoku, Edge, Val Venis. Hardy's showed up, and hell, even Blackman didn't totally stink up the joint. Better midcard than most give credit to.

 

[shattered dreams]

Pushing the envelope always leads to interest by viewers. The only problem is that this proverbial balloon has to pop, eventually. That's why the Attitude Era did more harm than good to the overall product.

That is like saying the industrial revolution ruined the world. Just because the rate of change might be unsustainable doesn't make it worse than the status quo. The only harm came from not having a transition strategy. That isn't the attitude eras fault.

 

[D-Man]

That is like saying the industrial revolution ruined the world. Just because the rate of change might be unsustainable doesn't make it worse than the status quo. The only harm came from not having a transition strategy. That isn't the attitude eras fault.

Well, except that we're talking about pro-wrestling and not the industrial revolution... since they're both completely fucking different things.

But sure... whatever you say.

 

[shattered dreams]

It is called an analogy.

On a possibly unrelated note, would you care to discuss if the attitude era revolutionized the industry of professional wrestling?

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

It is called an analogy.

On a possibly unrelated note, would you care to discuss if the attitude era revolutionized the industry of professional wrestling?

It ruined wrestling. Haven't you been following?

 

[shattered dreams]

It ruined wrestling by creating stars that are still more popular than anything that has happened since

 

[D-Man]

All eras revolutionize the industry, otherwise they wouldn't be separated into eras.

 

[shattered dreams]

There is a pretty straight forward difference between a change and revolutionizing.

 

[D-Man]

Good point.

I won't say the AE didn't change the game, revolutionize it, or raise the bar. What cracks me up is how everyone complains about how terrible today's product is and they say that the AE wasn't a main contributor in that.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

What cracks me up is how everyone complains about how terrible today's product is and they say that the AE wasn't a main contributor in that.

I understand why today's product can't pull the same stunts pulled in the late 90's, but why does that impact the quality of the show? The AE, in the eyes of most haters, was trash, Springer-style tv. I'm just not sure how that impacts creating new stars, and judging how talented those new stars actually are. I'm just not sure how you can blame the AE for that. Sounds like a cop out, and an everlasting excuse for the guys of this generation to keep not getting as over as those before them could.

 

[Nate DaMac]

If guys could go out there and cuss, pull disgusting gags, and spew sexual inuendo, they would get over. If Divas could go on half naked, like they should, they too would get over.

EDIT: So we're clear, I'm not talking about the top level guys. Rock, Austin, Taker, Triple H, those guys would have gotten over in any era. But the mid card guys like Val Venis, Godfther, New Age Outlaws, etc. No one would have given a shit about them if the weren't pushing the envelope.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

If guys could go out there and cuss, pull disgusting gags, and spew sexual inuendo, they would get over. If Divas could go on half naked, like they should, they too would get over.

EDIT: So we're clear, I'm not talking about the top level guys. Rock, Austin, Taker, Triple H, those guys would have gotten over in any era. But the mid card guys like Val Venis, Godfther, New Age Outlaws, etc. No one would have given a shit about them if the weren't pushing the envelope.

I see this often, talking about the AE's midcard guys. Who gives a shit about midcard guys - today, ten years ago, or twenty years ago? No one, really.

 

[shattered dreams]

Part of the reason that the attitude era was so successful is that they managed to tap into something that their fanbase and society were into at that time. Pushing the envelope isn't "in" anymore. There is nothing from the attitude era that is keeping the WWE from putting out a product that stands out within the current style. The problem isn't that the WWE is bland compared to the attitude era, it is that it doesn't stand out compared to the other options in present times.

If they are going to fail to adapt in a creative way then they open themselves up to people wondering why they changed in the first place. Since Nate brought up the divas let's take that example. You can't blame that the attitude era. Either they should be ****ty or for some reason that has nothing to do with the attitude era they can't do that anymore. The failure to find something else to do with them of interest has nothing to do with the attitude era and everything to do with the failures of those currently in charge of creative.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

[youtube]HAgZDZWwgRI[/youtube]

The night I was "converted."

 

[D-Man]

Another big misunderstanding is that when someone speaks about the AE causing negative damage to future product, they think we mean that it was the ONLY contributing factor to the present product's lack of excitement. Let me reassure all of you that it certainly isn't the ONLY thing that hurt today's business. Times change... trends are different... and like shattered dreams said, WWE's creative is currently struggling to adapt and tap into storylines, angles, and product that is interesting and suitable for today's market.

It's a combination of things.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Another big misunderstanding is that when someone speaks about the AE causing negative damage to future product, they think we mean that it was the ONLY contributing factor to the present product's lack of excitement. Let me reassure all of you that it certainly isn't the ONLY thing that hurt today's business. Times change... trends are different... and like shattered dreams said, WWE's creative is currently struggling to adapt and tap into storylines, angles, and product that is interesting and suitable for today's market.

It's a combination of things.

Don't forget about the wrestlers. While athletically gifted and decent-to-great in the ring, most of these guys are robots. May as well staple their scripts to the guy they're arguing with/talking to.

 

[D-Man]

Don't forget about the wrestlers. While athletically gifted and decent-to-great in the ring, most of these guys are robots. May as well staple their scripts to the guy they're arguing with/talking to.

Exactly. Most of today's stars only knew OVW/FCW prior to being called up to the main roster. In the past, wrestlers came out of the territories, WCW, ECW, or other promotions that didn't rush their growth.

 

[Shocky]

There are many problems with today's product. The Writing team is probably the main one. It's something that Austin continuously harps on. These guys today aren't allowed to be themselves. There is a script that the guys today pretty much recite verbatim. Very few guys have the ability to "be themselves," and it shows.

As far as the Attitude Era pushing the limit, it certainly did. It is known more for trash TV. Like it or not, the people on the outside looking in only saw that era as Jerry Springer TV.

I'm not so worried about that, the main effect was the destruction of Kayfabe. It's not some internet creation by crazy fanboys. Established stars like Heenan, Cornette, and Albano that I know of off the top of my head have all said that the business pulled the curtain back too far. People see how it works and some of the magic is indeed gone. This is the byproduct of guys like Russo and Bischoff that really didn't respect the business and saw it as something else.

 

[shattered dreams]

I find all that curtain pulled back too far crap to be nonsense. I think it is just people wishing things could be the way they were. Kayfabe was going to die no matter what. You can blame Russo for your distaste with the fact that such a change was inevitable it if you want but it is a cop out.

Scripting isn't the problem. The problem is that the script sucks. Most angles go better if you plan out what you are doing in advance. I think part of the problem in WWE might be that they try and choose who gets over instead of riding the pulse of the crowd. Probably makes sense for them as a long term business but it isn't especially conducive to short term quality. My two cents, I think WWE knows they want to be an entertainment only company but they have been reluctant to truly embrace that and the product they are putting out suffers for it.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Who on the current WWE roster was actually an active wrestler in one of the big 3 during the Attitude Era?

Jericho, Mysterio, Big Show, HHH, Undertaker, Mark Henry.....is that all?

Also, The Rock if you want to include him...

 

[D-Man]

Who on the current WWE roster was actually an active wrestler in one of the big 3 during the Attitude Era?

Jericho, Mysterio, Big Show, HHH, Undertaker, Mark Henry.....is that all?

Also, The Rock if you want to include him...

I think you just about covered it unless you want to include guys like John Cena and Randy Orton who came on at the tail end of the era...

 

[shattered dreams]

Kane and Christian.

 

[D-Man]

Well yeah, them too.

 

[Big Sexy]

William Regal if you count him as active right now. R Truth also came in at the tail end of the era.