NBA Thread - 2009-10

[gd]

As far as Toronto goes, this move by no means makes them a contender but it does put them in a position where they can make a run at the playoffs. Especially considering how weak the bottom half of the East is. A starting 5 of Jose Calderon, Demar Derozan, Turkoglu, Bargani, and Chris Bosh is solid.

We may want to think that after ever free agent is signed a team becomes a contender, but I don't think that Toronto will be very good, even with this deal. Hedo and Bosh are both borderline all stars and Calderon is a solid player, but I'm not so sure about Derozan and Bargani. Apparently Derozan is still a few years away and was picked based on "potential." Considering he's a stick and didn't do much at USC I wouldn't expect much from him this year.

Bargani is nothing special. One of the worst number 1 picks in recent memory, he's done nothing significant during his time in the league. He's been in the NBA a few years now, he should be domninat, not just average.

Toronto doesn't have much of a bench, maybe just Jason Kapono if he's even still there. I'm not sure of their coaching situation now either.

It would be a stretch for them to make the playoffs in the East. They'd be behing the Cavs, Celtics, Magic, Heat, Hawks, Bulls, and Pistons. They are going to be fighting with Indiana, Charlotte, and Philly for the last spot. They have a tough road ahead on them up north.

 

[Michael Jordan]

We may want to think that after ever free agent is signed a team becomes a contender, but I don't think that Toronto will be very good, even with this deal. Hedo and Bosh are both borderline all stars and Calderon is a solid player, but I'm not so sure about Derozan and Bargani. Apparently Derozan is still a few years away and was picked based on "potential." Considering he's a stick and didn't do much at USC I wouldn't expect much from him this year.

Hedo Turkoglu is a borderline all star yes but Chris Bosh is a perennial all star. He only missed this year because of an injury. Jose Calderon is a very good point guard. I don't know much about Demar Derozan since I don't really watch college basketball although Toronto did spend a top ten pick on him which means they are high on him.

Bargani is nothing special. One of the worst number 1 picks in recent memory, he's done nothing significant during his time in the league. He's been in the NBA a few years now, he should be domninat, not just average.

Yeah I thought he'd be better than he is by now. Maybe they can trade him and get something decent out of him.

Toronto doesn't have much of a bench, maybe just Jason Kapono if he's even still there. I'm not sure of their coaching situation now either.

They traded him for Reggie Evans a power forward from Philadelphia. Their head coach is Jay Triano. They just gave him a three year extension. He was the interim head coach last year after they fired Sam Mitchell.

It would be a stretch for them to make the playoffs in the East. They'd be behing the Cavs, Celtics, Magic, Heat, Hawks, Bulls, and Pistons. They are going to be fighting with Indiana, Charlotte, and Philly for the last spot. They have a tough road ahead on them up north.

Cleveland,Boston,Orlando,and Detroit are the top of the crop. Miami is a one man team although I think Beasley will be better this year. Atlanta is on the same level as the rest of the teams you mentioned. The Bulls,Pacers,Bobcats, and Sixers. Toronto has a good shot seeing as how they're on the same level as those teams.

 

[KillBill]

So Rasheed is going to Boston, and Grant Hill may be on his way. That means theres a chance that there could be a point at the end of a game, wher you have Sheed, Hill, Allen, Pierce, and Garnett on the floor at the same time. Its hard to remember having a lineup with as many great players on one team at once. With the exception of Sheed, the other 4 at one point and could still be considered some of the top players in the league.

 

[Michael Jordan]

So Rasheed is going to Boston, and Grant Hill may be on his way. That means theres a chance that there could be a point at the end of a game, wher you have Sheed, Hill, Allen, Pierce, and Garnett on the floor at the same time. Its hard to remember having a lineup with as many great players on one team at once. With the exception of Sheed, the other 4 at one point and could still be considered some of the top players in the league.

I doubt you'll see that lineup. Who would play the point?, and the Lakers had that kind of lineup when they lost to the Pistons in the Finals back when they had Shaq, Kobe,Payton,Malone, and Fisher. Don't discount Rasheed Wallace's greatness.

 

[Big Sexy]

We may want to think that after ever free agent is signed a team becomes a contender, but I don't think that Toronto will be very good, even with this deal. Hedo and Bosh are both borderline all stars and Calderon is a solid player, but I'm not so sure about Derozan and Bargani. Apparently Derozan is still a few years away and was picked based on "potential." Considering he's a stick and didn't do much at USC I wouldn't expect much from him this year.

I never said Toronto was a contender. I never even said they would make the playoffs. I just said they could make a run at the playoffs. And Chris Bosh is definitely not a borderline all star, he is a legit all star player.

Bargani is nothing special. One of the worst number 1 picks in recent memory, he's done nothing significant during his time in the league. He's been in the NBA a few years now, he should be domninat, not just average.

Bargani obviously isn't living up to the billing of being a 1st overall pick but it's not like he sucks. He averaged over 15 ppg this season and he had career highs in blocks, rebounds, fg % and 3 point %, so he is improving.

It would be a stretch for them to make the playoffs in the East. They'd be behing the Cavs, Celtics, Magic, Heat, Hawks, Bulls, and Pistons. They are going to be fighting with Indiana, Charlotte, and Philly for the last spot. They have a tough road ahead on them up north.

The Cavs, Celtics, Magic, Heat, Hawks, and Pistons will all be in but that leaves two spots left. Chicago barely made it this year and they lost their best scorer in Ben Gordon. Charlotte missed the playoffs last year and they really haven't improved. Indiana missed the playoffs last year and they also haven't added anyone. Philly will make it if they keep Andre Miller, but without Miller there chances aren't that great. So Toronto is more then capable of making the playoffs.

I doubt you'll see that lineup. Who would play the point?, and the Lakers had that kind of lineup when they lost to the Pistons in the Finals back when they had Shaq, Kobe,Payton,Malone, and Fisher. Don't discount Rasheed Wallace's greatness.

Fisher wasn't in the starting lineup of that 04 Lakers team, but that lineup is probably the closest comparison to what Boston has now. You also say not to discount Sheed's greatness, but even though he will be motivated I wouldn't call Sheed great at this point in his career. His biggest contribution will be on the defensive end of the floor.

 

[KillBill]

I doubt you'll see that lineup. Who would play the point?, and the Lakers had that kind of lineup when they lost to the Pistons in the Finals back when they had Shaq, Kobe,Payton,Malone, and Fisher. Don't discount Rasheed Wallace's greatness.

Grant hill could play point for a few minutes, he's done it before. I knew swomeone would mention that Lakers team. 1st of all, Malone was hurt, and thats the reason they didn't win it all, and 2, thats 4 great players, this team could potentially have 5. I'm not discounting Rasheeds greatness, however, the other 4 at some point in their career were considered top 10 players in the NBA, hell, Hill was the next "Jordan" at one point, its sad to think of what he coulda been. That 2000 Magic team healthy woulda won a title. I just hope he comes here, him and Griffey are 2 guys I've always dreamed about habving on my respective teams.

 

[Big Sexy]

Grant hill could play point for a few minutes, he's done it before. I knew swomeone would mention that Lakers team. 1st of all, Malone was hurt, and thats the reason they didn't win it all

Bullshit. They didn't win it all because the Pistons were flat out better. Malone still played in every game except for the last one and the Lakers just got flat out dominated. Nobody is completely healthy at that stage of the season so don't give a horrible excuse like that. The series only went 5 games and the Lakers were lucky to get the one win they did. Malone was 40 years old and outmatched by the better and younger Ben and Rasheed Wallace. The same way Gary Payton was outmatched by the better and younger Chauncey Billups. Perfectly healthy Malone or not the Pistons still would have won that series in dominant fashion.

 

[KillBill]

[QUOTEBullshit. They didn't win it all because the Pistons were flat out better. Malone still played in every game except for the last one and the Lakers just got flat out dominated. Nobody is completely healthy at that stage of the season so don't give a horrible excuse like that. The series only went 5 games and the Lakers were lucky to get the one win they did. Malone was 40 years old and outmatched by the better and younger Ben and Rasheed Wallace. The same way Gary Payton was outmatched by the better and younger Chauncey Billups. Perfectly healthy Malone or not the Pistons still would have won that series in dominant fashion. ][/QUOTE]

I checked, you were right. Even though you say that team is the closest thing to this Celtics team, This team is much better than that one. Slightly younger, and better outside shooters, and more athletic overall. And will be much better defensively.

 

[Big Sexy]

Sources say that Mike Bibby has agreed to resign with the Hawks. It's a good move for both parties. Bibby wasn't going to have many chances to start anywhere else and he's going to get a decent deal by returning to the ATL. For the Hawks it makes sense because they don't really have any other good point guards. Acie Law was a bust, Jamal Crawford definitely is not a true point guard, and Jeff Teague is a rookie.

The Hawks future continues to look bright. One of there problems last season was lack of bench scoring and Jamal Crawford will definitely help out with that as he takes over the role Flip Murray had last year. Crawford will be able to come in and score close to 20 points a night off the bench. Similar to what Ben Gordon has done the last few years for Chicago.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

I'm going to give everyone who may not be familiar with this year's NBA draftees a small overview of all the picks in the first round, my opinion on that pick, and a letter grade. Feel free to reply, in agreement or not, bash me, praise me, whatever. I'm cool with it all. Here we go.

30. Cleveland Cavaliers
Christian Eyenga
6'6 210 lbs. SF
Congo

I apologize, but I haven't been able to find any stats on Christian. He's fairly unknown, having only second division European ball. He played with the same team as Ricky Rubio. Christian is said to posses great defensive skills, often being compared to Michael Pietrus. Some sights have gone as far as to say he could become dominant in the NBA, given he develops a decent offensive game. He's a great athlete, fast and strong. He hasn't had any dangerous injury problems to my knowledge. He won't play for the Cavaliers next year, or maybe even for a couple years. In Europe, he'll be given time to develop parts of the game that he lacks. He's got a great upside, but this was a shocker considering a big man like Blair was still on the board. He could turn out to be a good player in a few years time, but there are too many unknowns. He could just as easily fall flat.

48.7's grade: C​

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

I believe I read that Bibby will be making somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 million dollars this year. This is a good singing for the Hawks. They made the playoffs in convincing fashion, securing the four seed, last year. The best way to repeat that success is to not let any of your starters or key pieces slip away to play for another team. Great job, Atlanta.

 

[gd]

I didn't really like this pick for Clevland. They needed immeadiate big man help and considering they are going to be a contender next year you'd think they'd get someone who could help them right away, like Blair.

The European players are always risky picks. Only a handful of them end up making an impact in the NBA, but if you don't want to pay a guy big money they are the way to go.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

I didn't really like this pick for Clevland. They needed immeadiate big man help and considering they are going to be a contender next year you'd think they'd get someone who could help them right away, like Blair.

The European players are always risky picks. Only a handful of them end up making an impact in the NBA, but if you don't want to pay a guy big money they are the way to go.

Well, they got the best big man they could in Shaq, I suppose. Blair was a great rebounder in college, but I'm not one on his bandwagon. I think he's too small to be anything but decent in the NBA, but size and strength is all the Cavs really needed. Mo can handle the ball, Shaq and Bron can score, and Blair could have been the muscle down low. This pick wasn't an immediate pay-off type pick. He's a good defender, something which is highly underrated by most people. He won't contribute to the success of the team right now, but who knows what will happen in the future. You also touched on the money, which is something they were probably saving.

 

[Big Sexy]

It's an average pick. He's not going to come over for a couple more years so there won't be any immediate impact, but if he does end up becoming like a Mickael Pietrus type player then it could end up being a steal. I personally liked their second round pick Danny Green a lot better. He's a guy who can come in and contribute right away. He's a great defender and has a solid jump shot with some 3 point ability. Green also comes from a winning program and I believe he's NBA ready. He'll be a nice addition to their bench.

 

[gd]

They may have Shaq and Big Z at center, but who else to they have besides Varejo at the 4? I guess J.J. Hickson may finally step it up this year and make an impact, but I think that Clevland would have been better served getting someone who could help them immeadiately, especially whit this being a make or break year if they want to keep Lebron.

 

[simpsons_fanatic742]

I'm not completely sold on the Turkoglu signing for Toronto. He's a good player, but I don't think he's the best fit for the team. I think Marion is a much better fit for the Raptors. He plays much better defence and that's what they need. The Raps were not a great rebounding team last year, but Evans should help that out alot. Bargnani is getting better. He hasn't really progressed much because they haven't really decided where to play him. They seem to have found a place for him a center. Bosh is a all-star player, but I fear we won't have him for much longer. For now though he will be a great player for us this season. Calderon is a solid PG, but they need a back-up combo guard behind him. Also, they need to upgrade their wing-positions and get a solid SG. DeRozan won't start, but he'll get his chance off the bench. I hope Turkoglu works out. I mean he's a great scorer, but weak on defence so we'll see how it works out.

Projected starting line-up:
Center - Bargnani
Power Forward - Bosh
Small Forward - Turkoglu
Shooting Guard - ?(maybe DeRozan, but I don't see it unless they can't get a SG)
Point Guard - Calderon

 

[Hip2bsquare]

Definately did not like this pick for the Cavs. Given that the experts said that the draft class was pretty weak, there were still some handy players that went later than pick 30. One for example was Clevelands second round pick Danny Green.... I believe even he at 30 would of been better. Just off the top of my head I think that Blair, Summers, Budinger, Pendegraph or Mills (yeah Aussie bias) would of been much better at this pick for the Cavs.

I believe they needed someone who is NBA ready, right to go and make some sort of impact now. Not a guy who will spend the season in the D-League or over in Europe. Not a very good pick at all for the Cavs, I htink 48 is being generous giving it a C.

 

[Hip2bsquare]

Whilst Turk may be a very good player, Im not sure that I like the signing for the Raptors after thinking about it. Yes Toronto needed some help on the wings, but is basically swapping Marion for Turk the best thing? Not sure it is. Turk can probably score more, is a good ball handler for a guy his size and a great passer but is not a very good defender at all. Marion brought some wing denfense to the Raptors team that they sorely needed. Seeing any SF, SG continually light up the Raptors must of been sickening. But now the Raps lose that guy who was able to play defense on the leagues best wing players.

Then you have the question , is Bargs/Bosh/Turk the softest front court in the NBA? Bargs is basically a softer worse version of Dirk, Bosh is a great player but not exactly a defensive god on the inside and Turk maybe great at what he does. But the question for me is, was htis because of Turk? Or being surrounded by guys like Lewis, Howard and Nelson? He didnt exactly set the world on fire in Sac Town and the Spurs.

Also the Raptors bench is horrendous atm, Evans, Graham, Ukic?? Horrible. Adding Delfino may hlep and hopefully the will eb able to get some pieces that will help if they end of signing and trading Marion and Parker.

 

[gd]

Even though I don't think the Raptors are going to be great next year, Hedo is a definite improvement over Marion, not question. Ever since he left Steve Nash and the Suns Marion hasn't done much of anything. He's a good finisher, but is otherwise pretty limited on the offensive end.

Not only can Hedo create shots for himself, but he can create for others as well. He was also really clutch in the Playoffs last year when he knocked down 3 or 4 huge step back threes. He may not be the best fit for the Raptors, but he's better than Marion.

 

[Hip2bsquare]

Overall I dont question that Turk is a better player than Marion. I have always believed that Marions stats were inflated by playing with Nash and playing in Phoenix. But I have considered Marion to be a very good defender and miles and miles ahead of Turk on the defensive end of the floor.

Turk will be good for the Raptors, but I just think that Marion was a better fit for them, not the best player. Now I htink they need to go out and find at least one wing player that is good on the Defensive end of the floor as that is going to be a real weak point for them this year. Yeah they could run say like the Suns but Caleron, whilst good, is not in the same league as Nash.

Bargs/Bosh/Turk/DeRozan/Calerdon is a goodish starting five but has some glaring weaknesses and the putrid start of their bench dos not help matters.

 

[gd]

I agree, they definetly need someone who get get after it on the defensive end and give them some toughness. That's why I didn't like the Derozan pick. At best I think he's a poor man's Vince Carter. He's really athletic and can throw down some crazy dunks, but he's not near NBA ready.

I think it would have been huge for them to keep Anthony Parker. He was a solid player and a really good shooter. Toronto's top 3 or 4 may be solid, but they have little to no depth, and without depth you can't be successful in the NBA.

 

[simpsons_fanatic742]

It's funny how the tide turns sometimes. When the Raptors won their division, they had one of the best benches in all of the NBA. Now they struggle off the bench. Evans is a solid pickup for the Raps. He's tough, aggressive, and a good rebounder, which the Raptors need badly.

Again, Turkoglu is a good player, but I feel that maybe Marion is the better fit for the Raptors because of his defensive play. Turkoglu will definitely help their wing scoring, which was bad last year, but defensively they may not be great.

 

[Hip2bsquare]

Yeah keeping Parker would of been great for the Raptors, especially nowthat they have signed Turk. Would be a great fit for him to slide into SG again, even just to playe defnse... but even then I think they would need another defensive minded SG to come off the bench, as you wouldnt want DeRozan playing on the stars night in and night out. Perhaps they could look at someone like Dahntay Jones? Did aa fair job at Denver last year I though.

DeRozan is an interesting one.. I think he could be an ok NBA player, and have a pretty good career at best, but I think he has very big bust potential.

 

[Hip2bsquare]

Just reading that the Salary cap has been set at $57.7 Millin, with the tax leve at $69.92 Million dollars.

David Lee wants $12 million a year. OK yeah David, dream on. Your a good player. But no team on this planet or anyother should pay that much a year for your services.

Also have read that Andre Miller to Portland is 90% complete. Possible S&T for Blaker and others if they dont sign him outright. Blazers also have some interest in Odom.

 

[Big Sexy]

I think it would have been huge for them to keep Anthony Parker. He was a solid player and a really good shooter. Toronto's top 3 or 4 may be solid, but they have little to no depth, and without depth you can't be successful in the NBA.

The reason they didn't keep Parker was because to sign Turkoglu they had to renounce the rights to Parker, Delfino, and Shawn Marion. It was impossible for them to afford to sign Turkoglu and still keep any of those guys.