Miami Region, Sixth Round: (1) The Rock vs. (4) Lou Thesz

[klunderbunker]

This is a sixth round match in the Miami Region. It is a standard one on one match. It will be held at Sun Life Stadium in Miami, Florida

#1. The Rock
(Won 83-68 in Round 5)

Vs.

#4. Lou Thesz
(Won 80-73 in Round 5)

​

This match takes place the same night as the previous round. The margin of victory of the previous round will determine the amount of damage and energy spent in a round. For instance, a win by 50 votes would mean the winner expended very little energy, whereas a win by 1 vote would mean the winner spent a good deal of energy in a hard and close match.

Polls will be open for five days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[DWFJT]

Both are great wrestlers and deserving to make it this far. As for this match I think that fact it takes place in Miami does it for The Rock. Hard to bet against him in his hometown and I'm not gonna. This one should be close though

 

[Poop Master Flex]

As of this moment, the Rock all the way.

Now before anyone goes all Gelgarin for saying it i do have reasons.

1) As great a draw as Thesz was he didn't draw anywhere near as much as The Rock. Thesz may have been the biggest thing in wrestling but The Rock is simply bigger than professional wrestling and sports entertainment. Thesz in his day was the man on so many levels but he just isn't as popular and as recognizable as The Rock. People who don't know what wrestling is know The Rock, people know Thesz for the simple fact he was a wrestler. Drawing power goes to The Rock. Thesz never packed in 80,000 people to a show and garnered 1.5 million buys (yes I know PPV buys didn't exist back then. I'm just stating the amount of money The Rock can and has drawn).

2) Its in Miami in The Rock's hometown so he gets homefield advantage and in booking that can mean a lot, it can also mean jack but its something to consider.

3) Although Thesz had more longevity in wrestling the only reason The Rock didn't is become he became too big for wrestling. If Thesz could make a living starring in movies and TV he would have left wrestling too.

If we were booking a federation I would probably vote Thesz because a win over The Rock would make sense, but in a tournament situation I would want to give it to the bigger star in wrestling.

I'll never knock Thesz's accomplishments and what he's done for wrestling, his roots go so deep he will be remembered forever in wrestling, he truly is definitely top 10 all time and should be on anyones list, The Rock would be higher on that list though, he's just simply the bigger star and in his own way has done as much if not more for wrestling than Thesz. Thesz helped legitamize wrestling and brought it into the TV era admirably but Rock makes wrestling cool to watch.

 

[BestInTheWorld5]

This match has to favor the Rock. He had an easier match judging by the margin of victory. Thesz was pushed by CM Punk. The Rock is a mega star that has the ability to come through on the biggest and most important stages. I'm not the biggest Dwayne fan out there but the man has beat Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, and John Cena all at WrestleMania. No matter what Thesz has ever accomplished it does not match beating 3 of if not the 3 biggest names in the history of pro wrestling.

I'm not taking anything away from Thesz, but the Rock has the home town advantage and all the skill set to win this match.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'm just going to list all the things that are irrelevant to me so I can get them out of the way.

1. Hometown: If every superstar won every match in their hometown, then I would take this into consideration. Stone Cold's lost in Texas, Cena has lost in Boston, Edge has lost in Toronto, and so on and so forth. I don't care that it's in Miami.

2. The poster above me referred to the fact that Rock had an easier victory over Sting than Thesz had over Punk because of the margin of victory. So fucking what. For all I know, Rock/Sting may have lasted 10 or 15 minutes more than Punk/Thesz. We're only talking about a margin of 8 votes here, not 80. For the life of me, I never saw what voting margin has to do with how well a wrestler will do. Look at King of the Ring 2001. Angle had to wrestle two matches before he had to face Shane and still beat him.

Now, he are the reasons why I will vote for Thesz.

1. Some may not like this but I don't give a damn. I consider the Rock's prime to be when Austin was out. In 1999, sure he feuded with Mankind over the title. Then he was in the midcard and tag team division feuding with Mr. Ass and Road Dogg. 2000 was his greatest year, no doubt. He traded wins with HHH and had wins over Chris Benoit and Rikishi. The Rock wasn't that dominant which brings me to my second reason.

2. The Rock is one of the selfless top wrestlers ever. He had no problem putting other guys over because he knew that he was second to Austin and it never hurt his credibility. Why shouldn't I think that he would recognize Thesz's greatness and his dominance in wrestling and put him over?

 

[cult_of_icecream_bar]

I am not gonna go over the thesz is better than rock shit.Because ignorant fans will vote,well,ignorantly.I am giving one simple reason to vote thesz.Thesz beat austin in THIS tournament.Austin >>>The Rock.Thesz wins.

 

[AwesomeRko]

I am not gonna go over the thesz is better than rock shit.Because ignorant fans will vote,well,ignorantly.I am giving one simple reason to vote thesz.Thesz beat austin in THIS tournament.Austin >>>The Rock.Thesz wins.

Firstly Thesz beat Austin in a sixty minute iron man match, Thesz was known for wrestling 60 minute contests regularly and almost always came out on top, the stipulation therefore played a massive part in the vote.

Austin>>> Rock is also a subjective opinion, it may be the majority one but a good argument can be made that in his prime Rock was more entertaining and even popular than Austin ever was. It is by no means set in stone.

Rock takes this for me. As others have said in his prime he was a wayyy bigger draw than Thesz, although Thesz was massive for his own time. He has more mainstream appeal, the crowd would be on his side and the fact that this is taking place in Miami only consolidates this.

Rock has beaten technical specialists like Benoit, Jericho and Angle in the past and I do not think that Thesz would be able to pose much greater difficulty than them. To my knowledge he has never faced anyone with Rocky's dynamism, energy and athleticism and think he would struggle to keep up.

 

[Tastycles]

I can't really be bothered to make a full argument just yet, but I'll give you a few pointers:

Hometown is irrelevant

Home town heroes get a big cheer, but there's a simple facts to look at here. Thesz's entire career consisted of beating wrestlers in their hometowns, so it certainly wouldn't hinder him to be facing the Rock in Miami.

Stamina is irrelevant

The Rock wrestled plenty of double headers. Thesz wrestled for hours a night, there's no way either would struggle into a second match.

 

[Shotaro]

I'm voting for the Rock here for one simple reason.

The Rock is the second most famous wrestler on the planet after Hogan. None of my friends, none, are into wrestling. Not a single one watches WWE, TNA or any other promotion and hasn't since 2002. When they went to see Fast Five, they didn't say it's got Dwayne Johnson in it. They said it had The Rock.

Thesz is a legend, out of all of the old school stars in this tournament the only ones whose careers I'm even vaguely familiar with are him and Sammartino, but when you go outside and talk to people who don't follow wrestling (and hell, even most of those who DO) ask them to name three wrestlers and their response will most likely be;

Hogan
The Rock
Undertaker

That's why I'm voting for the Rock, he had an easier match last week (not by much but it's still a wider margin) and even ten years after he retired he's on a par with Hogan as being utterly synonymous with professional wrestling.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

You know what Fuck Lou Thesz. And fuck you quoter




And I have been dying to say that.



Now, a returning Rock beat your franchise player in Miami, The Rock's home ground. I see nothing being thrown from Thesz supporters at this point that will even remotely be sufficient for a Lou win.


Ye he was great and all, but The Rock has too much momentum going into this, and I don't expect Rocky's 'selfnessness' being any sort of factor here. The Rock takes this and then some.


I can't be arsed to show his stats against technicians.

 

[Silly Willy Nilly Vanilly in the Milly]

I need a lot of time to think this out. But, as mentioned above, to me, homefield advantage for Rock is irrelevant.
Before I make my decision, I need one question answered:
Has The Rock ever lost in Miami?
Just curious, because if Rock is undefeated in Miami, it WOULD be relevant to a certain extent.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I'm voting for Lou Thesz... well, because I respect what he has done for the sport I love to watch.

I love the Rock... but I despise Dwayne Johnson. I can respect him for moving to a more lucrative and less physically taxing occupation. What I can't respect is that he has spent a good part of that time distancing himself from the business that made him, only to come back, in what can only be described as an incredibly cynical attempt to raise his profile AND he gets put over the biggest full time star in the process?

Vote Thesz, he deserves it - Dwayne Johnson... doesn't!

 

[shattered dreams]

I love the Rock... but I despise Dwayne Johnson. I can respect him for moving to a more lucrative and less physically taxing occupation. What I can't respect is that he has spent a good part of that time distancing himself from the business that made him, only to come back, in what can only be described as an incredibly cynical attempt to raise his profile AND he gets put over the biggest full time star in the process?

I don't understand this IWC myth that the Rock came back because he needed the WWE. I'd best describe that as wishful thinking by those determined to continue disliking him. While I use to kind of buy into the "Rock turned his back on wrestling" argument, I have since seen the folly in that. If you can respect his transition, then you have to respect the process that led to the success. Any belief I had in that was most likely residual Rock dislike from when he (correctly) took Austin's spot. Rock has given a lot to prowrestling and I have tired of this idea that he is selfish while others aren't, such as that spotlight hog Cena. Why should I believe Cena isn't a selfish glory hog? But but shattered dreams it is the booking, it couldn't possibly be the guy that visits those kids in the hospital. If it is the booking when Cena wins, then it should be the booking when the Rock wins (like at WM). If you have an issue with what happened at WM take it up with creative. Anyone that doesn't think the Rock still put Cena and the WWE over is being extremely shortsighted. The fact that you care so much that Cena lost is the first clue. If I am looking for disrespect, I am going to start with the comments Cena made about Rock.

 

[Silly Willy Nilly Vanilly in the Milly]

I'm voting for Lou Thesz... well, because I respect what he has done for the sport I love to watch.

I love the Rock... but I despise Dwayne Johnson. I can respect him for moving to a more lucrative and less physically taxing occupation. What I can't respect is that he has spent a good part of that time distancing himself from the business that made him, only to come back, in what can only be described as an incredibly cynical attempt to raise his profile AND he gets put over the biggest full time star in the process?

Vote Thesz, he deserves it - Dwayne Johnson... doesn't!

I hate voting after this, because it takes the cake.
In addition to this, Thesz should win because he was arguably the greatest technical wrestler in history.
Also, Rock had a tendency to lose at the big-name events in the big cities (such as Miami), even in his prime. (example WrestleMania 2000)
Vote Thesz.

 

[Con T.]

Lest you be swayed by this absolute moron, Fitfinlay4life, who is bantering about the old Rock sold out argument, I wrote up a nice little argument. Unfortunately, someone that knows more about wrestling than this fool said it first, so I'm going to post it here, feel free to skip to 3:58, if you want to avoid a kinda pointless story, and feel free to not judge it just because it's a guy who people dislike, for some reason I still don't get

[YOUTUBE]n_JXNcbpmRs[/YouTube]

Now, I won't be voting, but I will say this; if you're that petty because Rock left that you won't vote for him, that says a lot more about your petulance than anything else, old chap. If you legitimately think Thesz is better, great; frankly, I think there's a pretty good argument to be made that he is. But of you're still butthurt because the Rock got a better job, do me a favor; look in the mirror, accept that you take this shit way too personally for your own good, take a step back, and think about Rock the wrestler. Lou Thesz won't win this match because he's a better guy than The Rock; he'll win this match of he's actually better

 

[Silly Willy Nilly Vanilly in the Milly]

Lest you be swayed by this absolute moron, Fitfinlay4life, who is bantering about the old Rock sold out argument, I wrote up a nice little argument. Unfortunately, someone that knows more about wrestling than this fool said it first, so I'm going to post it here, feel free to skip to 3:58, if you want to avoid a kinda pointless story, and feel free to not judge it just because it's a guy who people dislike, for some reason I still don't get

[YOUTUBE]n_JXNcbpmRs[/YouTube]

Now, I won't be voting, but I will say this; if you're that petty because Rock left that you won't vote for him, that says a lot more about your petulance than anything else, old chap. If you legitimately think Thesz is better, great; frankly, I think there's a pretty good argument to be made that he is. But of you're still butthurt because the Rock got a better job, do me a favor; look in the mirror, accept that you take this shit way too personally for your own good, take a step back, and think about Rock the wrestler. Lou Thesz won't win this match because he's a better guy than The Rock; he'll win this match of he's actually better

I agree with this, which is why I posted the following:

Thesz should win because he was arguably the greatest technical wrestler in history.
Also, Rock had a tendency to lose at the big-name events in the big cities (such as Miami), even in his prime. (example WrestleMania 2000)
Vote Thesz.

So, yes, Thesz should win, as he is the better wrestler in all aspects.

 

[Con T.]

Then why do I not buy that you're voting for Thesz because you legitimately think he's better?

I believe you offer that Thesz is best technician, and while that may be true, Rock has a habit of making technicians look foolish in beating them. Benoit, in all the matches he had with Rock, never went over Rock. Angle had a flimsy win with help from Rikishi; either than that, Angle was regularly made to look a fool against Rock.

Now, if we're talking all aspects of a wrestler... You're wrong. He's not a better promo. And if we're talking business, Rock headlined the year that WWE had done it's best business.

Thesz is one of the best; this isn't meant to be a judgement on him. I'm more curious as to what changed between your first and last post that made you vote Thesz.

Oh, that's right; Fit's post

 

[AwesomeRko]

So, yes, Thesz should win, as he is the better wrestler in all aspects.

He is a better technical wrestler granted. To say he is better in all aspects is a bit preposterous however, Rock is a bigger draw, better on the mic, arguably more athletic and as Pippa said has an excellent record against technical maestros like Angle, Benoit and Jericho.

 

[Silly Willy Nilly Vanilly in the Milly]

Then why do I not buy that you're voting for Thesz because you legitimately think he's better?

I believe you offer that Thesz is best technician, and while that may be true, Rock has a habit of making technicians look foolish in beating them. Benoit, in all the matches he had with Rock, never went over Rock. Angle had a flimsy win with help from Rikishi; either than that, Angle was regularly made to look a fool against Rock.

Now, if we're talking all aspects of a wrestler... You're wrong. He's not a better promo. And if we're talking business, Rock headlined the year that WWE had done it's best business.

Thesz is one of the best; this isn't meant to be a judgement on him. I'm more curious as to what changed between your first and last post that made you vote Thesz.

Oh, that's right; Fit's post

Actually, it was NOT Fit's post, though I must admit, that DID set my answer in stone. I was leaning toward Thesz from the start.
But if it seems that what you say is true, as I haven't much to argue in that prospect, then so be it. You don't have to buy it, as I haven't much evidence to support it.
At any rate, my vote is Thesz. Had Fit not posted, I still would have voted Thesz.
And for the record, I don't entirely buy the "Rock sold out" crap. The Rock is and always will be in my top 10 list.

 

[Con T.]

Rock is a bigger draw

Ooof.... I dunno, Rko, i really don't. Thesz, you could make the argument, is one of the top five draws in wrestling. I know if you ask our resident Thesz-pian (see what I did there), he's argue he's #1... And I don't buy it. But I do think he's in the top 5, that's for sure. Rock was, and still is, a huge draw, but he didn't draw as long as Thesz did. Of course, he has plenty of time to eclipse him; as long as he makes appearances, he'll be widely considered the second all time biggest draw in wrestling.

But now? Can't ride that draw boat. And believe me, I love that draw boat like my rubber ducky

 

[AwesomeRko]

Ooof.... I dunno, Rko, i really don't. Thesz, you could make the argument, is one of the top five draws in wrestling. I know if you ask our resident Thesz-pian (see what I did there), he's argue he's #1... And I don't buy it. But I do think he's in the top 5, that's for sure. Rock was, and still is, a huge draw, but he didn't draw as long as Thesz did. Of course, he has plenty of time to eclipse him; as long as he makes appearances, he'll be widely considered the second all time biggest draw in wrestling.

But now? Can't ride that draw boat. And believe me, I love that draw boat like my rubber ducky

Yeahh Thesz was a huge draw in his own time and deserves enormous respect for consistently drawing huge crowds over such a long period. Having said that Rock's mainstream appeal beats this in my view.

The year 2000, when Austin was shelved and Rock took the mantle of top guy was the WWE's highest drawing year up until that point and the massive buyrate for WM 28 proves if anything his drawing power has only gotten stronger. Rock was fortunate in that his prime matched the peak of pro-wrestling's popularity, essentially exposing him to a significant demographic had no interest in wrestling before and for many have not since.

As you said Thesz was huge and must rank amongst the elite draws in wrestling history, I just think Rock's broader appeal gives him the edge.

 

[Danger Burger]

The more i think about the rock, the less i like him.

The cheesy sayings every night, the over the top peoples elbow, the bad movies....
They shouldnt work! But they do! He is one of the most electrifying men in sports entertainment! He makes you believe every second of his outdated nonsense!

Thezs is a legend, no doubt, but he doesnt get me excited like the guy i can barely stand to look at does.

We all know why the rock goes through here... Vote thezs! I wont be, but you should!

 

[cult_of_icecream_bar]

Is this a wrestling match or a drawing match?If the latter,SCSA & Hulk hogan should be in the final.In thesz's time wrestling had no exposure,Rock's time wrestling had max exposure(and you have to give SCSA,NWO and WCW the credit as well) Then thesz brought 10000-15000 people to watch him wrestle.So drawing power is same when you consider the timeline.Technically thesz was more sounder than rock.

 

[Con T.]

My God, you are that clueless, aren't you?

You can't seperate wrestling matches from drawing matches; dear God, son, the entire point of professional wrestling is to draw money. That's the only purpose wrestling serves; for us, it may be entertainment, but at the end of the day, wrestlers are judged by their ability to draw money.

To be succinct, the best wrestlers are the ones that draw the most money, you daft fool

 

[cult_of_icecream_bar]

Actually no,u are the fool.Did you even try to understand what i said there?Thesz drew 10000-15000 people in a era where you'd know about an event when it was in town only.It wasn't cool.Rock was amongst the biggest draw at the time when it was cool.So if you try to understand both of their time line,you'd be able to understand they drew pretty much the same.The Rock may be a tad higher because of being a movie star.Have i removed your indulgence?Thank You.