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**MERGED** Miz Complaint Thread

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If the Miz sucks for needing help then hears a list of others who must have sucked
Ted Dibiase
Ric Flair
HBK
HHH
Orton
ECW Raven

all at times relied heavily on other wrestlers to protect them and keep the title around their waste

Then there was JBL, who for someone is another one I hear people did not like his reign despite actually making the title seem worthwhile. Disagree with the Ted one, as he never got an official singles title in the WWF and usually his plans backfired which was often the difference between him and other heels.

However I'll go further, look at Yokozuna the biggest champion there has been when he was close to losing matches as a heel, Mr Fuji would always get involved. So on this basis does that mean Yokozuna, perhaps one of the most believable champions in history sucked?

Nevermind The Rock, NWO Hogan in fact most of the NWO, DX, The Nation, the Corporation o and who can forget Eddie who did it as both a heel and face.

The fact is if anyone thinks The Miz sucks for basically playing a heel, they have no idea about the history of the wrestling business or what a heel is suppose to do.
 
1) What needs to happen to make Miz a credible champion
He is a fucking heel. Heels win by cheating. Next question
2) Does A-Rye drag him down?
A-Rye helped him retain the title twice at TLC
3) Should he lose the title, turn face, and try again?
No, No and fuck no.

God why do people think heels need to look good? Heels are meant to look like shit compared to faces. They cheat to win, they cheat in their matches. They don't care about playing fairly because they are the bad guys and will do anything to win a match.

Miz is destined to lose his title? So if every other fucking champion in wrestling. No one can hold onto the damn titles for ever. Honestly how the hell does beating Randy Orton, the 2nd biggest face in the company to retain the WWE Championship being buried? Seriously allot of the smarks and irc need to go back and relearn the basic formula of wrestling as allot of you clearly have forgotten how wrestling works.
 
The Miz is destined to lose this championship. There is no question about it. He can't defend his title without his little cronies cole and Alex Riley. First vs. King on raw, then at TLC vs. Randy Orton. All these cheap wins just further prove how much he sucks. The Miz IMO is the most over rated wrestler on the roster. He had potential but the WWE is burying him and his credibility as a champion. So my question is

1) What needs to happen to make Miz a credible champion

2) Does A-Rye drag him down?

3) Should he lose the title, turn face, and try again?

Go.

Dear God, you're just another one of those Attention Deficit Disorder laiden smarks with no concept of what actually makes professional wrestling move, are you?

Many others before me in this thread have taken you to task, but I'm going to add my two cents here as well.

First I'll answer your questions:

1. In this day and age in WWE, it takes a long time to be a credible champion. It takes a few title reigns and the idea that a guy can potentially win at any time. Becoming champion doesn't make that champion credible (exhibit A: Jack Swagger), but being a 'cowardly heel' doesn't exempt him either. S(h)eamus was booked as a cowardly champion being a heel and all and still managed to work effectively.

2. Alex Riley doesn't drag Miz down, he enhances him. He has a cronie. A guy he can send in his place to weasel out of trouble. Furthermore, the motivation here is as much for Riley's benefit as it is The Miz. WWE clearly sees something in Riley, and as a result is giving him a major part of a character currently holding the WWE Title who appears every week on TV and appears at house shows. Riley is getting a billing and an exposure that only Barrett has had really. Kaval, the 'winner' of NXT2, isn't on TV every week the way Riley is.

3. So you think the 2nd most successful angle on WWE TV needs a mulligan? How often DO you tie your nose to the exhaust pipe of your parents car? And what is it with the current, young, smarky wrestling fans thinking EVERYTHING is solved or enhanced by face and heel turns. That's one of the MAJOR problems with TNA! I can't keep track of anything there because each week its a new face- or heel- turn. "So and so couldn't get over as a face for those 5 weeks, so let's make them a heel. Well that didn't work, let's make them a face again!" The reason they don't get over there is because nobody can follow what's going on!!!

Miz doesn't suck, not my a long shot, and to suggest that he does is irresponsible. Is he a long term champion right now? No, of course not. But Edge's first title reign was transitional, but it worked. Same with CM Punk. How he performs and acts and carries himself in these weeks / months as champion will go a VERY long way in determining whether he remains in the title hunt in the future (a la Edge / Orton / etc.) or slides back into a mid card role (a la Swagger.)

Just take your Ritalin, turn down that blasted My Chemical Romance album, and hang on for the ride.
 
I disagree with this. I believe this generation's Chris Jericho is without a doubt CM Punk. Miz still has a world to go before you can compare him to Jericho. We'll see just how true this statement you're making is in another 3-5 years because right now, I'm sure it's got to be CM Punk as the rightful heir the spot Jericho held. We also haven't seen Miz work as a face yet, something Jericho could do and be VERY entertaining and be over. CM Punk is more entertaining than Miz in heel form already and I'm not sure if Miz could get over like he has as a heel as a face. We haven't seen Miz in an extremely personal feud outside of the Daniel Bryan thing and that didn't even really get that personal. Both Jericho and CM Punk are masters at mind games and drawing emotion/heat from fans. I don't feel Miz has done this yet. What I'm getting at I guess is that it's way too early to say Miz is the next Jericho in terms of card flexibility right now. Miz has an immense amount of potential, I just think this comparison is too soon.

CM Punk is outstanding, there's no question there. One of the best in the company without question. But in my opinion, Miz is still a closer analog to a young Chris Jericho. Where it's true we haven't seen Miz as a face yet, Face Jericho, much like face Rock, is still an obnoxious, insulting individual, he just directs that venom at heels rather than fans and faces, and I think Miz could do quite well with the same type of face persona. When he was first pushing into main event territory, a significant and growing percentage of the audience was "singing along" with him when he declared himself to be "AWESOME!" rather than mocking him as "AWFUL!" which I believe speaks to his ability to use his charisma and entertainment factor to get over as a face. It's only a testament to his superb ability to make himself hated that he's managed to more or less nip this in the bud as of late. Miz' persona also seems more capable of rebounding from losses to me, whereas with Punk it always feels to me as if after a series of disappointing losses, he needs some rehabilitation before stepping back into the world title level. For lack of a better explanation, Miz simply "feels" more like Jericho to me than Punk does, but both are outstanding talents with miles of upside.
 
I completely get what Cleavo77 is saying. Why spend all those months building a character's ability only to downgrade him once he becomes champion?? Unfortunately, the Miz (as much as I think he SUCKS and is OVERRATED) will keep the belt until Mania, PERIOD. You can pretty much bank on it.

Thanks for the defense Showstopper. I don't think these people understand that a forum is where people post their opinions. If you don't agree with what the poster says, you aren't required to say shit. Start your own post about how you want to suck the Miz's over-rated dick. Jesus Christ its scripted entertainment, if you wanna get that worked up over someones opinion about wrestling you should probably re-prioritize your life and figure out if your worth taking breath from anyone.
 
ok i dont know if there's a thread for this but i need to vent my feelings

a few weeks ago the miz cashed in his MITB contract and got the wwe title and since then many people on this site and others were happy now i personally wasnt because i dont think his in-ring skills are good but i didnt mind that people were happy but then something started to annoy me
i saw comments comparing the miz to legends like ric flair, owen hart and others
then people started saying he is better than legends
then they started saying he will be the greatest champion of this generation
then they said he'll be the next face of wwe

i know there are massive miz fans and they're happy he got the title but come on stop acting like he's the greatest thing to walk the earth coz in my opinion if it werent for his mic skills he wouldnt be where he is now
im a massive jomo fan but when he became #1 contender i didnt automatically assume he's the next hbk or he's gonna become wwe champion and be the best ever

and when you think about it the miz's run is a sheamus run lets take a look at history:
the miz v jerry lawler: COLE let me say that one more time COLE had to help miz retain
the miz vs orton: alex riley helped out

now the future
the miz vs jomo: this will likely end in miz beating jomo with the aid of someone and if jomo wins it'll be a big shock

i know miz is a heel but his title run is pathetic wwe need to give him at least 1 clean win and if they dont it wont look good for the miz
and dont start bashing me coz im not going with the crowd by loving the miz

one last thing i dont understand how in wwe mic skills are so important after all it is a wrestling show
 
ok 1st off miz is a great wrestler but more important if he didnt talk he wouldnt be as big as he is. the miz is wonderful on the mic. and makes it easy to hate him. i believe him to be the next john cena. and as soon as he turn face....hope thats not anytime soon because his heel work is great.....he will be bigger than he already is. he is very easy to hate which is what a heel is suppose to do. im a huge miz fan and have been since he was working on ecw. and you say his title reign is pathetic. he is meant to look like a weak champion. the miz is great but can pick up wins against taker, cena, and orton unless he has help from someone like alex riley
 
Mic skills are important because, though it is a wrestling show, it is entertainment as well. Guys that grab a mic and escalate a storyline or angle, are talented. It is also fun to watch. The mic work of the Miz is not to be taken lightly.

I don't see how he could be considered a legend like Ric Flair or someone like that. Technically, he kinda should be considered the best at this moment because he is The WWE Champion.

Everyone has their own opinion on everything though. Mine happens to be in the position of backing the Miz. I think he is talented, as well as a work in progress. His in ring skills are getting better and will continue to do so because contrary to what most people think, The Miz is a hard worker.

That is why he is where he is at. He has worked hard. The decision to make him champion might have been a little premature. But who knows. It might have been the perfect decision. Where he goes from here might simply even be based on him winning the title at the time that he did.
 
It really irks me when people say Miz can't win without help. To steal a line from him...REALLY!? Really?

Dont you people get it...its called writing. Its written in for his character to be a losing champion. He gets heat by retaining the title with help from outside interference. No one had any complaints when Orton did it with Legacy, Michaels did it with Rick Rude and then DX with Triple H and Chyna. Triple H did it with Evolution. Hell heel champions have done whatever it takes to keep the title, its how a GOOD heel plays to the crowd.

Get over yourself. No the Miz is not Gods gift to wrestling, but at a time where star power is lacking, someone like the Miz had to be brought up. I guess now when Morrison goes on a losing streak, people are going to start complaining about him not getting the title? Miz, like Morrison and guys alike, has paid their dues and NOW are getting the benefits of that.

It seems that almost everyone on these boards just needs to find something to bitch about these days...get over it.
 
Sorry, Im still the Miz's top mark and to me he is like the best in the biZz today and has been the best in the bizz for the last few years....He has an awsome look, awsome in ring skills, and by far the BEST mic skills the WWE has ever seen...

AWWWWWWWSOME!!!!!!
 
I just think the Miz is average in every way. He's not that great on the mic and his in-ring work is average as well. He doesn't captivate me with his words or impress me with his in-ring skills. Without Cole and Bryan, the Miz wouldn't have been as much hated. All I know I'm not saying those comments the OP is talking about and never will.
 
I go ahead and agree with the original post and say that the Miz is definately not on the level of such greats like Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, or Shawn Michaels. But with that being said I don't think he is a horrible Champion either. I actually started to become a fan of him on ECW. At first I wasn't a fan of him winning the WWE Championship. But now I don't really mind. I think it's a good idea having The Miz as champion. The Miz has gotten a lot of publicity being the WWE Champion. Which is good because it means the chance of increased veiwership for the WWE. So I don't mind him as champion. Is he the best? No. But will he be a good one? Yes. You just have to give him a chance.
 
If you look back at past history, some of the most successful performers were average workers, at best. Hulk Hogan, anyone? His in-ring matches were largely forgettable, aside from some big spots here and there. Austin, post-neck injury, was also average. I could name a few others, but I think you get my point. What separated those guys from everyone else was there presence and mic skills. Referring to previous times, Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes were absolute gold on the mic AND had good ring skills, Flair definitely better than Dusty. But, because they had the ability to put a storyline over verbally, they put asses in the seats. As far as the Miz goes, I used to hate his schtick, but over time, they have allowed him to progress from being the company clown to a more serious presence. His ring skills are ok, not abysmal like others say, but his success will be in continuing to be compelling on the mic. The beat down of Lawler on last week's Raw will help to further his development.
 
Even though the Miz isn't the greatest I really don't see anything wrong with his title reign so far. Sure, I'll be the first one to agree that he could use a clean victory but I think Miz has carried himself pretty well so far as champ. His mic skills are good and consistently improving, he's not a great wrestler, but he has had some good matches since being champ, frankly I think the Miz has been doing a great job carrying himself as champion.

Do I think he's on the level of Austin, Rock, Hogan,ect.? Not at all, but at the same time I like Miz as champ, I feel he's been consistently getting better in all aspects, gets good heat and he also looks like he can fit in the main event picture.

I know the Miz gets a lot of love, and although he's not the greatest ever I feel he deserves his praise because frankly, Miz had a better 2010 than anyone else did IMO, and the entire time he got better, worked his ass off and deserves to be in the main event picture and champ.

PS. Mic Skills are more important than in ring work because it differentiates you from everyone else and helps you connect with the crowd better so they actually care for you. All the wrestling skills in the world aren't going to help if you can't connect with the crowd.
 
OP I would be interested to see where people here have claimed that Miz is comparable to Flair. PM me that thread if you dont mind because it would be hard to search all over wrestlezone for it and you already know where it is.


Miz is overrated, I agree with you on that, but even the greated heel champion of all time, Ric Flair, cheated to win the majority of his matches. Thats not to compare Miz to Flair, Im just saying that if heel Flair had to cheat to win, why would Miz win his matches cleanly? Its the way the heel champion is booked. Heel Jericho cheated to beat both Rock and Austin that night he become undisputed champion.

OP, its not a wresting show with entertainment thrown in, these days its an entertainment show with wrestling thrown in. I would dare say whats done on the mic is more important than whats done in the ring right now in WWE.

Even as a Miz fan I know he's overrated but his title reign has been more interesting to me tha anything on Raw. Only the first 2 months of Nexus was more entertaining to me.
 
ok i dont know if there's a thread for this but i need to vent my feelings

A few weeks ago the miz cashed in his MITB contract and got the wwe title. Since then, many people on this site and others were happy now i personally wasnt. because i dont think his in-ring skills are good.

Well, thats certainly your right. I personally find Miz to be mediocre within the ring, but an excellent champion thus far. He hasn't had to be exceptional in the ring within the confines of his championship run thus far, as the stipulations of the matches he's been havent forced him to. He's been booked as a vulnerable, opportunistic champion, and he's done a tremendous job of getting heat as a result.

but i didnt mind that people were happy but then something started to annoy me
i saw comments comparing the miz to legends like ric flair, owen hart and others

Where did you see this? Id love to see the link where people compared Miz to the greats in the business. Miz cut a promo on Raw on Monday where he made the comparison, but that was the first time Ive ever heard one made. Are you sure that you aren't confusing Miz' promo on Raw with people's comments? Because those are two completely different things, you know.

then people started saying he is better than legends
then they started saying he will be the greatest champion of this generation
then they said he'll be the next face of wwe

Again, where is this coming from? The only thing thats been said about Miz being the face of WWE is the media appearances he does. The man works tirelessly to put his name out there to all media outlets, just as John Cena has done before him. Because of this, he'll likely become one of the names people recognize most when they think of WWE, but it won't be because of him being "better then legends." Again, where did you see the "better then legends" being said? Ive yet to see anyone on this forum say that.

i know there are massive miz fans and they're happy he got the title but come on stop acting like he's the greatest thing to walk the earth coz in my opinion if it werent for his mic skills he wouldnt be where he is now.

Miz' mic skills are PART of the reason he is where he is now, Another part is because he's scratched and clawed his way up the WWE ladder by working harder both in the ring and in the media. This isn't wrestling, this is sports entertainment. A big part of being successful is the ability to entertain, which the Miz certainly does. You may not be entertained by him, but most people are.

and when you think about it the miz's run is a sheamus run lets take a look at history:
the miz v jerry lawler: COLE let me say that one more time COLE had to help miz retain
the miz vs orton: alex riley helped out

This is simply called getting heat. The Miz has been booked as a vulnerable champion, so he needs help from others to retain at times. Youre going to take this the wrong way, but Ric Flair did some of the same things the Miz did to retain his title, time after time. He made a face challenger look superior to him, only to come out on top due to nefarious means. Im not suggesting Miz is on Flair's level by any means. What I am saying is that Miz is playing the same type of champion. Instead of wrestling a clean match, he takes shortcuts. This is great booking for a heel champion. Why? Because it makes people want to tune in to see him get his ass kicked.

now the future
the miz vs jomo: this will likely end in miz beating jomo with the aid of someone and if jomo wins it'll be a big shock

You're probably right, but I dont see your point here man. If anything, Miz winning with assistance will be a good thing because it will draw him even more heat. Youre not supposed to like the heel champion, after all.

i know miz is a heel but his title run is pathetic wwe need to give him at least 1 clean win and if they dont it wont look good for the miz
and dont start bashing me coz im not going with the crowd by loving the miz.

Im not bashing you friend, just questioning the logic. Why exactly does Miz need a clean win during his title reign? If he was a monster heel such as Kane, this would be understandable. But Miz isn't. He's an opportunistic champion who retains his champion by any means necessary. The more he does this, the more heat he draws. The more heat he draws, the more people will want to tune in to see him lose. When he finally does lose, it will mean tremendous momentum to whomever defeats him by overcoming the odds. Heel champions don't need clean wins to be successful. Heard of Edge? his first 9 World Champions were won and defended in the exact same way. And when he lost, it meant tremendous career boosts to first time face champions such as CM Punk and Jeff Hardy.

one last thing i dont understand how in wwe mic skills are so important after all it is a wrestling show.

When was the last time you heard someone referred to as a wrestler within WWE? Or a match between two superstars described as a "wrestling match"? I'd guess its been a long time, because the term "wrestling" isn't used within WWE anymore. Rather, its sports entertainment. Part of being successful in sports entertainment is being able to connect with the crowd, and further storylines. All the greats from Austin to Flair were great talkers and sold shows at times on the basis of their mouths alone. Again, Im not comparing Miz to these guys, but he does the same thing. His ability to connect with the crowd and further storylines through his mic skills have been integral to his rise to the top. So for the purpose of drawing a reaction and furthering a storyline, mic skills are extremely important. And few in the business today do it better then Miz. ;)
 
Sorry, Im still the Miz's top mark and to me he is like the best in the biZz today and has been the best in the bizz for the last few years....He has an awsome look, awsome in ring skills, and by far the BEST mic skills the WWE has ever seen...

AWWWWWWWSOME!!!!!!

You mean the catchphrase made famous by Edge and Christian previously? And what awesome in ring skills? The Miz's in-ring skills are sub-par. He's never really had a great match that he's contributed to at least 50% of. Daniel Bryan carried him every time they had a match. The same can be said, to a lesser extent, of John Morrison. Also, it's not like Miz is physically imposing. He stands at 6'1. His mic skills are okay, but once again, it all rides on a catchphrase made famous by somebody else. Another poor quality he has is his inability to play a face. He won't beat people with size, or skill. Sure, guys like Austin, the Rock, and Lesnar came to be originally as heels, but their physical attributes/character/talent allowed them to play faces later. Stone Cold didn't put over his looks like The Miz does, and became a face by starting trouble with heels instead of faces. Easy concept. The Rock became and stayed a face by beginning to encourage crowd participation, as well as calling himself "The Great One" while backing it up with great matches. And Lesnar was fortunate enough to not have talk on the mic much, so becoming face was pretty easy for him. Miz lacks all of those qualities. He won't last in the main event picture, and i can see him, if his run doesn't work out, dropping down to the heel equivilant of Kofi Kingston.
 
I think some of the people on here have Miz completely overrated. That's for sure, but I think given his program right now he's done a great job.

He cuts great promos, and his in ring is decent.

Another thing is this notion of "clean wins." Since when do heels need clean wins? Especially one as vulnerable as The Miz.

That's what The Miz is, vulnerable. So he needs Cole, and Riley to help him. It gets him a ton of heat.

Everyone is going to say, "Oh look. There he goes again, he can't win on his own."

Eventually some type of match will be set up where outside interference is illegal and then The Miz will be beat by someone.

His vulnerability will be evident and he won't be able to do it on his own.

Until that happens, he's doing just great as far as I'm concerned.
 
Miz is great on the mic and an ok wrestler, and his charisma surpases the charisma of all guys on the raw roster, except for cena. thats whats important to wwe. belive it or not theres a lot of things other than wrestling skills that contribute to you becoming a champion. basically, vince needs to have dollar signs on his eyes when he looks at you. miz has the look, the star power (his sort of celebrity past and great ability to conduct himself during interviews). He can and WILL easily replace cena in a while. plus, if you're still not impressed with what hes accomplished (which you should be), hes still developing. hes still working towards reaching cena's status, and honestly this title reign is just to test the waters and attract media attention to the company.

ps- the only person comparing miz to legends and sayign he will be better than legends is miz....when hes on the mic....trying to piss you off....because thats his job....hes a heel
 
Nothing at all really. His wrestling is decent, but I know he can improve in the years to come. His mic skills are excellent (I mean look, he was on a reality show before WWE.) The only problem is about the whole thing about him being the face of the company. Miz is 30. Cena is 33. Once Cena retires, or at least starts to cool off a bit, how long can Miz represent WWE? Not that long. I guess you could have two faces of WWE, like SCSA and The Rock, but please, for the love of God, creative better keep Miz heel. He has all the characteristics of a good heel, like John Cena circa 2003, but he will not be a good face at all.
 
Honestly I don't like the Miz, I never did probably because off the whole reality show thing I just never saw how people could like him, note this is before I even knew about wrestlezone and and stuff while I knew everything was scripted. Although after a year or so of watching him I actually realised he is better on the mic than most superstars as well as his ring skills really improving week to week. So while I still might not like the Miz I think he is a fine champion, and I definatly like that were not having another Cena or Orton title reign right now.
 
I don't really understand why people don't like the Miz. He's a guy who started off pretty much horrible, he was bad on the mic bad in the ring just bad all over. He has evolved since then to a respectable in-ring competitor. Not a great one, but a respectable one. He's no Shawn Michaels but he's certainly better then the Ezekial Jacksons and the Vladimir Kozlovs. The way WWE is at the time there is really no demand for him to build up his technical chops. In order to be a main eventer in WWE you just have to have a few cool moves and you have to connect with the crowd, The Miz has all this. Sure his finisher may not be as cool as the RKO, or the Stone Cold Stunner, but it's effective and believeable. Everything about the Miz is everything that the WWE is looking for at the time. Honestly I just think it's sad that the in-ring aspect isn't as important anymore, but what can you do, in a time where the commentators aren't even allowed to call the guys wrestlers, what more do you expect?
 
The SCF isn't actually that believable, for one, his full nelson isn't even really a full nelson, he doesn't even clasp his hands together or hook his fingers together; it just looks really botchy because what stops the opposing superstar from just lowering his arms and fighting out of the hold? It's easier to bring your arms down while someone is trying to keep them up, than it is trying to keep someone else's arms up without hooking your fingers together. And it takes him about 2-4 seconds to go from holding the opponents hands up to tripping the other guy forward. :/
Honestly he could've just modified his reality check, he could've done the knee to the face then followed it up with an sto or a modified sto.

I used to really like the miz, but i like him less every monday night raw because his promos dont really change.
It's just:
Step 1: He says he's better than the crowd.
Step 2: Insult the local sports team.
Step 3: Ask the crowd if they dislike him.
Step 4: Ask "really?" several times.
Step 5: Say the crowd is wrong.
Step 6: Get interrupted.

The only thing fairly unique there is the "really" part. And John Morrison used that first in an episode of the dirt sheet.

And I'm sure others have figured this out and posted something about it. Im just reiterating. Yes, REALLY.

:)
 
yea well the rock's promos were repetitive as well does that make him bad on the mic. Miz gets the crowd going well and can get very good heat.

Also the SCF is good. Your face lands first on the mat.
 
His finisher is the worst thing about the Miz.

The guy has done nothing at all wrong as champion. Ratings havent dipped, he looks strong by cheating to win and I enjoy how he is using Riley as a tool to beat Orton. He deserves to go to Mania and as champ too.
 
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