Let's play "Name those NFL Stats".

[Slyfox696]

With the recent announcement by the New York Jets they are changing their starting QB, I think we should play a game. See if you can guess who these quarterback stats belong to.

QB #1:

229 Completions, 418 attempts, 2678 yards passing, 13 TD, 17 INT, 8 Fumbles and a QB Rating of 67.9

QB #2:

126 Completions, 271 attempts, 1729 yards passing, 12 TD, 6 INT, 7 Fumbles and a QB Rating of 72.9



Give up? Okay, I'll give you one more stat.

QB #1:

Record 6-8

QB #2:

Record 8-5


I bet you have it now.


So the question has to be asked. If Rex Ryan is okay with Mark Sanchez's numbers for 14 games, why is he against Tim Tebow's arguably slightly better numbers and much better winning percentage for 2 games?

What amazes me is that people actually think Rex Ryan may keep his job. How in the hell this loud and obnoxious fuck could keep his job after the atrocious job of coaching he's done these last two years is beyond me. But, given the complete ineptitude which seems to exist in the Jets franchise, it wouldn't surprise me a bit to see Ryan back next year.

 

[CH David]

He probably doesn't think Tebow is enough of a quarterback to lead his team. Either that or he doesn't want to cater the offense to Tebow and run the ball 70-80% of the time.

 

[The Crock]

I don't know, man -- Rex has taken this team to two AFC Championship games. He hasn't had amazing talent to work with in any of those years; Rex has done the best he can with what he has.

 

[This Is My Name Thank You]

I knew who it was right away. Two highly overrated quarterbacks in the NFL. Tebow is the most overrated in the whole league. He was a publicity stunt to bring asses to seats.

Tebow did well in Denver because they managed the offense around his limited skills. That's how he worked so well. Other than that, he is a flop. Sanchez is hit or miss. He his like the Jets version of Drew Bledsoe. He is either on or just all around sucking. Sad, as his team is/used to be mainly running. Held together by their defense as well.

I see Tebow either going to Jacksonville or the CFL. He could make do in Jacksonville. They have the offensive style to carter to Tebow"s running and limited passing abilities. As for Sanchez, I really do not know. Maybe the Raiders if it is a possibility. They are in dire need of a quarterback and like I said, Sanchez is very hit or miss. He just might work out there.

 

[CH David]

I don't know, man -- Rex has taken this team to two AFC Championship games. He hasn't had amazing talent to work with in any of those years; Rex has done the best he can with what he has.

Was it Rex or the fact that he had a good defense and Sanchez wasn't making terrible mistakes?

 

[The Crock]

Was it Rex or the fact that he had a good defense and Sanchez wasn't making terrible mistakes?

It had a lot to do with the defense, I'll give you that much. All I ever heard about Sanchez was that he was "good under pressure" and "poised to improve" -- thing is, he never did. His cool head was the result of a good defense behind him.

I still think Rex managed fairly well, considering he didn't have all the best tools and still made it within a game over the Super Bowl two years straight.

 

[CH David]

It had a lot to do with the defense, I'll give you that much. All I ever heard about Sanchez was that he was "good under pressure" and "poised to improve" -- thing is, he never did. His cool head was the result of a good defense behind him.

I still think Rex managed fairly well, considering he didn't have all the best tools and still made it within a game over the Super Bowl two years straight.

Those times he had some decent games, but was still really young so you never knew if it would stick. It appears now that Sanchez isn't the answer, or he needs to grow up, get better, and make a new statement next season.

When you've got a good defense and a QB that limits mistakes, it can work wonders.

Regardless though, I think Rex is being stubborn. I'm curious to see Tebow run a regular offense, not one that is going to run most of the time, and not out of the Wildcat. His arm is mediocre at best, so slants would probably do wonders, and he has the ability to run which would keep people honest. Would be worth a shot seeing as you can't really get worse than Sanchez has done this year.

 

[PlayTheGame]

So the question has to be asked. If Rex Ryan is okay with Mark Sanchez's numbers for 14 games, why is he against Tim Tebow's arguably slightly better numbers and much better winning percentage for 2 games?

I think it is pretty simple. The Jets have two winnable games left (Chargers & Bills). If Tebow were to start those games, the Jets could probably win them. And that would be bad. Imagine if Tebow went 2-0 as the starter. NY media would be all over it, and Tebowmania would break out like it did in Denver. He'd be annointed the Jets' savior, and there'd be clamoring for him to be "the guy" moving forward. And most intelligent football minds know that Tebow can't sustain a successful NFL offense.

However, it's still a fair question, because then why did they even bring him in in the first place if they never wanted to let him take a full grasp of the offense? ... I don't know, I think it's probably chalked up to what you said about the Jets' organization- it is in shambles. The Tebow circus was a horrible idea, the locker room still doesn't seem unified, and Ryan will probably still have the lead job (he's a good defensive mind, but anyone who continues to support Sanchez for as long as he did is rather blind).

 

[Slyfox696]

And most intelligent football minds know that Tebow can't sustain a successful NFL offense.

I think it's funny how scared "most intelligent football minds" are of Tebow.

However, it's still a fair question, because then why did they even bring him in in the first place if they never wanted to let him take a full grasp of the offense? ... I don't know, I think it's probably chalked up to what you said about the Jets' organization- it is in shambles. The Tebow circus was a horrible idea, the locker room still doesn't seem unified, and Ryan will probably still have the lead job (he's a good defensive mind, but anyone who continues to support Sanchez for as long as he did is rather blind).

Yep.

 

[PlayTheGame]

Do you think Tebow is a good option? I'm not sure I understand what you meant by your comment. I've heard (albeit rumored) reports that John Elway couldn't wait to get Tebow out of Denver and never thought of him as the answer.

 

[CH David]

I think what puts people off about Tebow, "intelligent football minds" if you will, is that he doesn't have the strongest arm and relies on his legs a lot. In what is now a pass first league, he is kind of a throwback and they don't seem to want that. He gets results, or did last year. He deserves a shot to prove himself at the very least. I say this and I'm not a huge Tebow guy. His media coverage threw me off, but I don't blame him.

 

[klunderbunker]

Here's the thing.

Sanchez has had some success before, but this season it clearly is not working, period.

Tebow has only one season starting most of the games at QB and he made it to the second round of the playoffs.

The argument against Tebow is that any QB could probably win in Denver. There's just one thing to remember: Tebow actually did it. With him, there are actual results to look at. The stance on Tebow is that he can't do it long term, but every time he's had a chance, he's succeeded. Until he shows, as in on the field and not on paper, that he can't cut it long term, why shouldn't he at least get a shot?

 

[CH David]

Shopping Sanchez and ridding themselves of Tebow? Interesting.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/sto...sanchez-part-ways-tim-tebow-according-sources

 

[Slyfox696]

Do you think Tebow is a good option? I'm not sure I understand what you meant by your comment. I've heard (albeit rumored) reports that John Elway couldn't wait to get Tebow out of Denver and never thought of him as the answer.

Name me another time a 2nd year QB who took his team to the playoffs in his first year starting has ever been so universally disdained?

Kevin Kolb is making $62 million over 6 years because he lost his starting job to Michael Vick. Matt Flynn is getting $26 million over 3 years, because he had one good game last year replacing Aaron Rodgers. And yet, Tim Tebow, who took a basement dweller and was at the helm of an 8-5 record, including a playoff win against the Steelers, is not wanted by anyone.

Why? Because they're scared of him. Why are they scared of him? I don't know. It could be a fear of overhauling a roster to maximize Tebow's effectiveness. It could be a fear of a Tebow injury and no one to replace him. It could simply be that Tebow doesn't fit the current mold of QB, and his style isn't wanted. I don't know.

But with so many teams so desparate to have a competent quarterback, so few of them seem interested in a guy who has never done anything but win.

So how else do you describe it?

I think what puts people off about Tebow, "intelligent football minds" if you will, is that he doesn't have the strongest arm and relies on his legs a lot. In what is now a pass first league, he is kind of a throwback and they don't seem to want that. He gets results, or did last year. He deserves a shot to prove himself at the very least. I say this and I'm not a huge Tebow guy. His media coverage threw me off, but I don't blame him.

I think the media coverage might be another reason teams don't want him. Which is a shame, because he genuinely seems like a very good guy.

Shopping Sanchez and ridding themselves of Tebow? Interesting.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/sto...sanchez-part-ways-tim-tebow-according-sources

That article is what prompted me to post this thread.

 

[CH David]

I think the media coverage might be another reason teams don't want him. Which is a shame, because he genuinely seems like a very good guy.

It was the reason I couldn't stand him. All of the coverage from ESPN was complete overkill. He's a humble kid that just wants to play in the NFL. Hate the coverage, not the kid.

That article is what prompted me to post this thread.

You sly fox, you.

 

[Slyfox696]

It was the reason I couldn't stand him. All of the coverage from ESPN was complete overkill. He's a humble kid that just wants to play in the NFL. Hate the coverage, not the kid.

Yup. What's worse is how actual media members who are paid by ESPN hate Tebow and all the coverage he gets. How fucking stupid is that?

It's like when guys like Stephen A. Smith get upset at Bret Favre and how people talked about him all the time. As if it was Favre's decision to have ESPN report on every breath he took.

You sly fox, you.

 

[CH David]

I understand why it happens. He's a polarizing figure, mostly thanks to coverage, and then people talking hating on him gets more coverage so they get more viewers. I get that. But like you, I also think it's way too fucking stupid.

 

[PlayTheGame]

Name me another time a 2nd year QB who took his team to the playoffs in his first year starting has ever been so universally disdained?

Kevin Kolb is making $62 million over 6 years because he lost his starting job to Michael Vick. Matt Flynn is getting $26 million over 3 years, because he had one good game last year replacing Aaron Rodgers. And yet, Tim Tebow, who took a basement dweller and was at the helm of an 8-5 record, including a playoff win against the Steelers, is not wanted by anyone.

Why? Because they're scared of him. Why are they scared of him? I don't know. It could be a fear of overhauling a roster to maximize Tebow's effectiveness. It could be a fear of a Tebow injury and no one to replace him. It could simply be that Tebow doesn't fit the current mold of QB, and his style isn't wanted. I don't know.

But with so many teams so desparate to have a competent quarterback, so few of them seem interested in a guy who has never done anything but win.

So how else do you describe it?

I think the media coverage might be another reason teams don't want him. Which is a shame, because he genuinely seems like a very good guy.


That article is what prompted me to post this thread.

I see your point, I guess most just don't buy into him for the very reasons you mentioned. Sure, he has won, but he did have one of the NFL's best defenses. A lot of those games were kept close due to the Denver defense. Tebow looked bad for most of the game and eventually made key plays, but I guess you can't take the wins away from him. But he was still mostly a game manager. I don't think he'd be able to keep up in a shoot-out. For the most part, he wasn't beating offensive juggernauts last season. When he did verse offensively capable teams, for the most part, he lost (NE twice, Lions). I think those were telling games. I think he's viewed as an Alex Smith but with much more risk weighed down with a media headache. I'd find it interesting if someone gave him another shot, and it could happen elsewhere. It'd certainly be entertaining to watch.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Name me another time a 2nd year QB who took his team to the playoffs in his first year starting has ever been so universally disdained?

In fact, he went to the AFC Championship game in both his rookie and sophmore seasons.

And that was why they went Sanchez over Tebow all year long. Sanchez is their guy, Tebow is the new guy. The guy you spend a first and second round pick (as well as 3 useless guys) on gets a shot ahead of the backup option the owner/GM wanted.

I don't think Rex ever wanted Tebow, hence why he never gave him a shot to play consistently. Ownership and the GM wanted him. Rex got stuck with him.

Kevin Kolb is making $62 million over 6 years because he lost his starting job to Michael Vick. Matt Flynn is getting $26 million over 3 years, because he had one good game last year replacing Aaron Rodgers. And yet, Tim Tebow, who took a basement dweller and was at the helm of an 8-5 record, including a playoff win against the Steelers, is not wanted by anyone.

Why? Because they're scared of him. Why are they scared of him? I don't know. It could be a fear of overhauling a roster to maximize Tebow's effectiveness. It could be a fear of a Tebow injury and no one to replace him. It could simply be that Tebow doesn't fit the current mold of QB, and his style isn't wanted. I don't know.

You answered your own question. He doesn't fit the mold of an NFL QB. He is horribly inaccurate and a terrible pocket passer, and his running style is unlike that of most NFL running QBs. Hence, most teams don't want to try and change an entire offense just to adhere to a Tebow offense.

But with so many teams so desparate to have a competent quarterback, so few of them seem interested in a guy who has never done anything but win.

So how else do you describe it?

It looks so ugly that they don't want to take a chance. All the stories that came out since the trade is that the Broncos players were happy to rid themselves of Tebow because his style supposedly hindered them.

I think the media coverage might be another reason teams don't want him. Which is a shame, because he genuinely seems like a very good guy.

Absolutely spot on.

And his religion definitely plays a role. Not in the sense that he is a Christian, but how vocal he is about it gets on peoples nerves sometimes.

If Josh McDaniels gets a head coaching job again soon (Cleveland, Arizona, etc), I wouldn't be surprised if he goes after Tebow considering he did draft him. Aside from that, he may not get a shot in the NFL for a while. Either move positions or go to the CFL. Going to the CFL doesn't necessarily signal an end to his NFL career, Doug Flutie and Warren Moon both had successful NFL careers after stints in the CFL.

 

[GI Cake]

Wasn't the mindset of the Jets in their past two AFC Championships playing a Run heavy offense with a shutdown Defense? Hell when Denver went with Tebow they played a High School offense playbook and managed to be the Number one Running team in the NFL. If Rex truly believes in a Ground and Pound offense, with a mean defense behind it, then there really is no reason not to start Tebow, and rebuild your defense next year when you can get a healthy Revis back.

 

[Moon Knight]

I wouldn't want Tebow either. More because you already have a good idea what you will get out of him, and that isn't good. It maybe better to give McElroy a chance, at least you don't know yet what he can do. The season for them is over, so what does he have to lose?

Take the unknown over the known, if the known is crap at least you may get surprised.

 

[Moon Knight]

I think the media coverage might be another reason teams don't want him. Which is a shame, because he genuinely seems like a very good guy.

Decent guy, below average QB. All the media attention would be a distraction right now, and with him not being that good wouldn't make it worth it. I would like him to succeed, but he needs a little work first.

If he was Peyton Manning like, the media wouldn't matter.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I don't think Tebow is the answer for the Jets. I have major reservations about his long term talent, but putting all of that aside, you can't throw him into this mess and not expect him to suffer. I think Sanchez can still be a serviceable NFL QB, but not in NY, he is mentally defeated and the same would happen to Tebow.

Ryan has to go though. He got to the AFC title game in his first two years, but that was with a great defense and a strong running game. Jim Caldwell took the Colts to the Super Bowl with Peyton Manning, then two years later without him he went 2-14. Mediocre coaches can win with great talent, but Ryan should never be above a defensive coordinator again.

 

[BaconBits]

Rex Ryan and the players never wanted anything to do with Tim Tebow. In fact, multiple Jets players have said that he is not a serviceable NFL quarterback, and he is unlikely to ever be one. The move to get him was all Woody Johnson. I think Woody thought bringing him in would bring together what by most accounts is a very divided locker room. It was poor logic by a guy who maybe doesn't have such a great grasp on the game of football.

I think Tebow's chances at being a quarterback in this league are pretty much in the shitter. He has to know this. He's not an idiot. If he does catch on with another team, he should volunteer to move to a Randall Cobb style of utility player that can be used as a weapon in all sorts of ways. It would take advantage of his unique athletic skills and keep defenses on their toes.

Or he could move to safety. He could be the guy doling out hits instead of taking them. He's athletic enough and has some knowledge of offenses. That would make reading coverages easier.

Mark Sanchez has the physical talent to play quarterback. He's got a strong enough arm. He's athletic enough to move around if need be. However, it's pretty clear he has rather thin skin and it's extremely hard to make your way in the NFL if you can't take the heat. Compounding the problem is playing in New York where the fans hate you even if you are solid. He might be better off with a change of scenery (he would be an upgrade over the current situations in Arizona, Minnesota, and Jacksonville), but he might be ruined already.

The Jets will probably draft a qb in the first round. Unless the dude has very thick skin and epic skills, in two years everybody will be shitting on him, too.

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

I think ESPN got it right last night. The reason the Jets were any good when they went to 2 straight AFC championships was because of their defense. Since they got rid of their old defensive coordinator things have gone to shit. But I think that after this season Rex and Tannabaum need to go.