Jan 4th- Monday Night Raw vs TNA iMPACT

[BladeRunner]

Can the respective brands possibly live up to the hype that's been building up these last couple of months?

I mean I feel like if they don't put on an A + PPV quality program, both of them, then they're going to let everyone down.

This is big, from the looks of the reactions to it. This has become a definite PPV type atmosphere, and it's acted as if it's one of the big ones.

Now here's how I see it going down.

TNA is going to put on the best they have. They're gonna go gimmick crazy and then end it all with a big crescendo. Now whether all these gimmicks and everything will work cohesively in a live show, one that they don't usually do, is anybody's guess.

As for WWE, I feel like people are expecting even more from them than they are from TNA. And I can't help feeling WWE is going to let us down. Yes, they got Bret Hart. That's absolutely huge. But guess what? They got the same writers, the same wrestlers, the same everything that everyone's been complaining about for at least since PG started. But hey, I think they can still pull this off if they really want to.

BUT, if I were to have watched Raw on Dec.14th for the first time, never had watched it before, then I wouldn't expect much of anything on Jan 4th no matter how much they pushed it. Because that was one terrible episode. That's why I have my fingers crossed that they'll step up, and this jan 4th one will be otherwise.

What do you guys think? Have they been hyped too much? Are they going to go all out? Is it going to be PPV quality? Or will they just be the same shows we always see that just happened to have big names?

 

[Dagger Dias]

What do you guys think? Have they been hyped too much? Are they going to go all out? Is it going to be PPV quality? Or will they just be the same shows we always see that just happened to have big names?

I don't think it's as much the federations themselves, but as much as us fans hyping it up too much. So many of us remember the attitude era and WWF VS WCW war so fondly, and want to see another ratings war because the product might become better when that happens. You know what though? Nostalgic memories get increasingly happier over time.

Here's an example. Have you ever had one of those timeframes where everything just seems average? Not awful, but not awesome either? You think to yourself that you won't remember much about what's going on and won't miss this time much. Now fast forward a couple of years. Suddenly you miss that time a lot more, when it was only average to begin with.

People often remember the past in a brighter, happier, better version than it really was when it happened. Nostalgic inflation causes a memory to appear exponentially greater than the real event actually was. What does that have to do with January 4th? Keep reading.

Could it be possible that many of us have done this when it comes to the attitude era and ratings war? Sure the product WAS better, but it is very possible that some of us have nostalgically inflated our memories of the attitude era so much that it caused us as fans to expect FAR more than either WWE or TNA is able to pull off on January 4th.

I think that both federations will go all out on trying to impress their fans on January 4th and the show will be PPV quality.... however, I think it will not be able to live up to the hype because there are many fans who will be expecting WAY more than what we are probably going to get.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I truly believe that Raw is now (with Bret Hart) almost a shoe-in to stop every bit of momentum TNA has going into Jan. 4th. I thought this date could have been pretty significant, and maybe it still will be. But I think WWE made a brillian decision in bring in Hart. Anyone else think it's interesting that Bret Hart FINALLY gets his shot at Hogan, in one way or another? haha I love it.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

No brainer...it's Hart. I think history looks upon him far more favorable than Hogan. He is, and always has been, much more respected. I think the intrigue of how the whole Vince-Bret-Shawn chemistry will play out is far more interesting than anything Hogan can do on TNA (get a 4 sided ring, that six side piece of garbage sucks). And as many of the people before me have said, no one has seen Hart (with the exception of a very tame HofF appearence. This could kill every bit of momentum Hogan and TNA have going. And Bret Hart is probably not going to be just a GUEST host. My best guess would be that he is going to end this guest host thing and more thank likely be the new GM of Raw. And I really doubt the New Hart Foundation will play a big role in return, but you never know, they could use this to springboard the careers of young Bulldog and the rest of them. I think this is going to a Vince vs. Bret thing, and maybe a little Bret vs. Shawn, but not much, seeing they really do hate each other, and Bret will probably refuse to do much with Shawn.

 

[BladeRunner]

What I find is funny is the people who hate TNA and want it to be destroyed.

Without TNA making such a big deal about the jan 4th thing, WWE probably wouldn't have made the jan 4th episode of Raw anything special at all.

So it's ironic that the people who LOVE that Bret's coming back the most, are also the people who hate the promotion who pushed the whole thing forward in the first place.

Competition is good for wrestling, and I don't see why people can't see that.

Is Bret coming back a huge deal? Yes. Does it really matter to me personally? Eh, well it's interesting, but not that interesting. I know for many they like the whole drama of it, but what I really want the most on that night is good matches. I certainly understand those who can't wait to see Bret tho.

I'll be watching TNA live, and then I'll watch a RAW replay later. I'm not watching TNA for Hogan but more of the wonder of what they're going to put out there matchwise etc. because it sounds like they're going to go all out.

 

[Ferbian]

without a doubt i'd much rather watch bret hart than hulk hogan, basicly because no matter the reputation of hulk hogan i still think he's too overrated to be worth the rating.
Atleast bret hart can wrestle, and doesn't have to bury and defeat everybody in every single match, like summerslam 2005 where shawn should've obviously won.. besides i'm more of a WWE fan so i would ofcourse watch that above anything

 

[HBK-aholic]

Hogan is shit. There, I said it. He was a big deal, about 100 years ago. Now he's a flabby old man who makes me cringe. Add that to TNA and I'll definitely have my TV on Raw. Bret Hart is a great wrestler, and the terms in which he left are the most debated in wrestling history. Everyone gives a damn about that and I'm so eager to find out if he mentions it, and if so, in what context. Will he still have a problem with Shawn? Or is it about Vince? Actually can NOT wait. Bret Hart FTW.

 

[Billie Jean]

Who would I rather see on January 4th? Hart or Hogan?

This, to me, is a no brainier. I think this sums it up best:

I have to laugh at this really. TNA and Hogan looked at how bad the WWE has been at times this year and thought to themselves "Hey we can take these guys. Let's have a go" to which the WWE has stood back, chuckled to themselves and then decided they were going to crush TNA into oblivion. No matter how bad the WWE are (and RAW was absolutely abysmal on Monday) all it takes is a little push and they come up with something like this. I'll be watching RAW, as I expect will everyone else, not because of Bret Hart, but because of everything else WWE will throw at that show.
Don't get too used to the idea of a new war. Come January 5th it will be over.

This is a perfect way to sum it up. It will not only be the fact that Bret Hart will likely be hosting the show or be involved in some way, but there is likely going to be every fucking thing thrown at it. There will be title matches, title changes, promos and possibly some sort of gimmick match main event. It is not the return of Bret Hart that will make this a show to watch, but what the WWE is going to try and do to outdo TNA.

I will also be tuning into RAW for the simple fact that I am a WWE fan and I have never seen Bret Hart on TV before. I would also like to see if he has still got it. Even if it is not in ring wrestling, it may be as a manager or a part time general manager.

I will be tuning into RAW on January 4th.

 

[farlance]

Ok, there is a lot of speculation that Brett Hart will be hosting RAW on the 4th which would be a good counter attack against Hogan appearing for the first time on TNA. I just wanted to hear what else could be done either in TNA or WWE that would make you want to change the channel, even for 5 minutes, from the other. I'm sure some people already have their mind made up but still, if you were in charge of either company what would you do to counter attack. Doesn't have to be one sided maybe think of ideas for each show.


If I was TNA I would have a match between Kurt Angle and Bobby Lashley, maybe for Lashley's title shot. This would be a Bound for Glory worth match but would get my attention for sure. What other ideas do you guys have?

 

[justinept]

I am not a fan of TNA - I don't hate TNA, I just think Impact is an awful. A few weeks ago there was a forum questions posed about the production of The Impact Zone. Does the production quality - or lack of quality - turn off the viewer? I responded a resounding yes. I hate their production qualities. They distract me from the overall show and no matter how good or bad the match is, I find myself thinking "This looks second rate so it is second rate."

The addition of Eric Biscoff to TNA actually made me more excited than the addition of Hulk Hogan. If there's one thing Bischoff has proven he can do, it's take a bad production, find its flaws, and make it look more appealing. I thought, "Hey, I might watch the show... and the wrestling and/or storlines might be garbage ... but at least I'll be able to accurately judge it!"

The addition of Biscoff - coupled with the announcement for the new Monday night show - made me very excited for the direction of TNA. I agree with an above poster who said that competition is good for the business. It forces the decision makers to make good decisions or risk losing their viewing audience. While I don't see the WWE in any immediate danger, no one saw Nitro as an immediate risk to Raw either. Turns out, they nearly took WWE out of business.

The same above poster also pointed out that Raw's Jan 4th show is a direct response to TNA. Well, I think that's obvious on all ends. VKM knows he can't let people get a taste of the other show - he made that mistake once. And on top of that, who thinks that the possibility of beating Hogan - and potentially Flair - in a ratings battle isn't part of the reason Hart came back to the WWE?

Personally, if this is any indication of what a ratings fight means to VKM, then I hope both shows succeed. It just means more entertaining shows for the fans.

However - on Jan. 4 - I'll primarily be watching Raw while turning during commercials to get a glimpse of TNA. The return of Bret Hart is just too much... we've been asking for this since Owen Hart died ... and now we finally have it! How can you not watch?

 

[justinept]

I'm pretty sure the WWE has booked guest hosts through the end of January. Things can always change, but I doubt Hart's appearance will end the guest host strategy of Raw.

 

[Leafy]

Easily Hart. We've seen Hogan in a reality show, a radio show, even on TMZ. We haven't seen Hart on this big of a stage in a while. His presence will bring a lot of viewers to the USA network heavily hurting TNA's prospect on a large rating. Just look at the choices, you have Hogan who's worn down and might be wrestling or in a bad angle. On the other side you have a legend who's been betrayed by his old company and he's returning after 10 years. You can't write that stuff.

 

[justinept]

I completely agree with the nostalgia inflation concept. When things aren't going as we like them, we always remember "the good old days." Our memories have a way of either erasing all the bad in something or all the good, and we rarely remember the events for everything they were.

Maybe we are overhyping the emergence of a new wrestling show to compete with VKM's monopoly. But so what? The addition of TNA to the Monday night lineup forces the WWE writers to up their game and not gives us the same stale storlines month after month. It forces VKM to give the fans what they want to see. And if fans start tuning into TNA over his program, then it gives him a clear signal as to what the fans want. We are already seeing the wheels turning on this with the return of Bret Hart.

What people need to remember - those who think that Jan 4 is going to be truly explosive - is that this should just be the start. Though the first impression is big, the true measure of Jan. 4 will be what happens on Jan. 11, 18, 25 and in the months to follow.

As far as last week's Raw show, I don't think we can really gauge the product on that. To use a football example; I see last week and this week as Weeks 16 and 17 for a team that has already sewn up home field throughout the playoffs. You're just trying to get to the playoffs at that point and you might not even be playing all your starters. By not starting RR storylines until Jan. 4, the WWE is admitting that Dec. 14 and Dec. 21 mean zero to the company's creative plans.

 

[Lancer]

I am going to watch TNA, simply because I am more concerned, sans Hogan, what they are going to do with their product in order to be seen as legitimate competition to WWE. They will be pulling out all the stops, and have the better in-ring action and performers anyway.

Nothing has changed. TNA and WWE have done nothing by adding Hogan and Hart to their rosters, respectively. They are the same product if you look past the legends. And a lot of people will agree that TNA has the better wrestling product...period, and have had it for a good while now.

 

[Slowdude]

TNA has had a better product for the past 4 - 5 months. I'll be watching the TNA live stream on Janurary the 5th (As it will be Tuesday ere in Australia). I'll skip through Raw the next day when it is shown on TV. I barely get myself to watch Raw these days anyway, most of it is just shit. I can sit through most of TNA without fast forwarding it though.

TNA Impact > Monday Night Raw

 

[Hulkamaniac]

For most people, it's obviously going to be Bret Hart, as he's been away much longer For me, as a Hogan mark, it'll be Impact. That said, most of you SHOULD be watching Impact over Raw, live. All I read on these baords are complaints about WWE's programming, and how they need to change, and blah blah blah, but when it comes time to put your money where your mouth is, you all back off like crazy. The WWE will only respond to lost money, lost ratings, and real competition. You can catch everything Hart does on replay.

That said, I'm going to go OT for a second, and I know that I've become one of the de facto HOgan defenders on this board, but here goes..

Also, it sickens me a little to hear, not just the "not a fan of Hogan" type comments, but the blatant disrespect for a true legend in our business. It's not just "I'm more excited to see Hart", because as I explained above, that's completely understandable (although anyone who thinks he's on Hogans level as a draw...well you're insane), it's outright insulting of Hogan that goes above and beyond. WIthout Hogan, there would be no Monday night wrestling. Wrestling wouldn't be NEARLY as big as it is now. Without Hogan, most of the wrestlers don't make near as much money as they do now. Without HOgan, most of you aren't even fans.

Before Hogan, it was a big taboo to like pro wrestling. It was seen as freakshow. Hogan made pro wrestling cool. He made it accessible to the masses. He crossed over in a way that nobody has come close to, not even the Rock, because HOgan did it all as Hulk Hogan, the wrestler, not Dwayne Johnson. Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge the Rock his success, I'm just saying, he's definitely distanced himself from the sport.

For a man who did so much for the sport to be hated on, and disrespected...for what? Because he wants to CONTINUE participating in the sport? So what if he's old now? He gave his entire youth, and now he has to stop because you say so? He still sells, he still draws,and he still makes money, moreso then most of the guys "beloved" by the IWC. And that's what pisses off most people. "Why should Hogan get cheered? He can't do a 450 splash!"

In his last run in the WWE, he held the title for all of a month, and it made perfect sense in the story line. In WCW, he held the title most of the time, and guess what,they made more money that way. Same in the WWF days. Everyone says "so and so should have gotten a run with the title...welll, they tried, and business went down without Hogan at the top. If you want to get a run, then get over.

In TNA, is he going to hold the title? Probably at some point. But I doubt it'll be long, and unless he's squashing AJ Styles and Kurt Angle, it's not a problem.

 

[psykohurricane]

The way i see it right now, Impact going head to head with RAw is like if WCW decided to create Nitro to go head to head with Raw, they would have taken WCW Worldwide, which was tape at the same studio TNA IMPACT is film, put all there big name stars they had and hope anything works out.

Even with Hogan, TNA Impact going head to head against Raw is just one big joke. Am not saying that because i hate TNA because i don't, has a matter of fact, i'm one of there biggest fan, but let's be realistic here, this is TNA here, they're airing a wrestling program live from universal studios and they are basing there success on a 60 year old guy to pretty much everybody in america is feed up of earring about. Just to has a exemple, since leaving the WWE, how many t.v. shows were big success. His Reality show had a good run but that pretty much the reason why his family exploded. Then you had American Gladiator and it did pretty decent ratings for the first season but the second season tank and don't get me starting on his Celebrity wrestling show.

He's been on every entertainment show and gossip newspaper and entertainment magazine for the last year in a half, so let'S face it, nobody cares about Hogan anymore in the U.S.

So the way i see it, TNA is way out of it's league right now and Vince doesn't have anything to be scare of, because nobody will care and TNA will probably do it's worst rating ever especially since TNA being TNA didn't advertise the show outside of SPIKE TV and the big billboard in New York, there's been absolutely no publicity for the show so if you don't watch Spike TV or don't leave in New York, you probably don'T know that Hogan will be in TNA on january 4th so you probably won'T watch IMPACT and do like you always do and watch RAw.

 

[TNA2009Forward]

Skepticism is bound to trail TNA into their experiment against the multi-million dollar empire that is the WWE when TNA iMPACT competes against WWE RAW! Ever since that company surfaced on TV in 2006, plenty has nitpicked, ridiculed, and detested them and they have only crawled their way onto becoming better.

I'll tell you though, you never count out David when he stares into his biggest enemies eye who is Goliath and David should not be underestimated. People shouldn't allow TNA's financial nor fanbase inferiority to WWE to obstruct their view on what could be a potential upset on January 4th. You have two monday shows, primetime, live, which means people can switch their channels off RAW and find another wrestling program. That is where TNA should rely their hopes on that people will find interest in watching iMPACT and thus, should make it as entertaining as possible. Stack the deck with great matches and not so many promos.

What brings skepticism to my thoughts on any kind of ratings increase is the fact that through the advertisements for Hogan on iMPACT, the show only averaged a 1.3 and atop of this, TNA has not maximized promotion for this January 4th show. But like I said, it's monday, primetime, live, and people will likely find them. I'm very intrigued to understand how they do!

 

[shanezam203]

He's been on every entertainment show and gossip newspaper and entertainment magazine for the last year in a half, so let'S face it, nobody cares about Hogan anymore in the U.S.

That's not true, Hogan still will be able to Draw. Look at this thread, look at what Vince is doing by bringing in Bret Hart to ensure specifically Jan. 4th Raw blows TNA out of the water.

Hogan can still draw, people will watch TNA because of Hogan, I will. I'm fortonite that day I'll be able to Tivo both Raw and TNA and then watch them at my own schedule but for the 1st time in a LONG TIME I am excited for wrestling.

And this may point back at Hogan signing with TNA. I said it many times Vince buying WCW was a huge accomplishment but in a way taking away the competition is not healthy for the sport. Part of me wishes TNA very well.

In the end both shows will benefit from Competition. Go get em' Hogan. Bring in NWO, bring in whatever you need to do so Monday night Wars come back and WWE has something to worry about. Otherwise TNA should close up shop right now.
Shane

 

[Jack-Hammer]

That's not true, Hogan still will be able to Draw. Look at this thread, look at what Vince is doing by bringing in Bret Hart to ensure specifically Jan. 4th Raw blows TNA out of the water.

This forum and others like it across the net represents only a small percentage of the pro wrestling audience. Even still, all those that have resonded and left messages in this thread aren't going to be watching Impact that night, especially with the announcement of Bret Hart signing with the WWE. Based on all of Hogan's latest wrestling ventures, he's not that strong of a draw. The PMG Clash of Legends show that Hogan copromoted in Memphis back in 2007 drew only 2,200 fans in an arena that holds just over 18,000. Hulk Hogan's Celebrity Championship Wrestling was also a bust. Aside from being a horrible show, it never drew more than a 0.4 despite Hogan's presence and name. The week that he signed with TNA, they showed footage of the press conference he held at Madison Square Garden on the show and it was the lowest rated segment of the show that night. Lastly, Hogan's Hulkamania tour in Australia has been called a flop overall and hasn't generated nearly the number of ticket sales that both Hogan and local promoters in Australia were hoping for. What TNA is doing is relying on a big named star in the hopes that that star will draw ratings. They've done it with Kurt Angle, Kevin Nash, Sting, Booker T and several others and it's a strategy that hasn't paid off. Perhaps what TNA should focus on is actually building their product to be consistently high quality.

 

[mlola]

Honestly, I'm going to watch Monday Night Raw. Bret Hart returning to the WWE live is something that most people thought would never happen. The two exceptions were the Hall of Fame and when WWE did that horrendous Mr. McMahon Appreciation Night. I'm gonna set iMPACT on my DVR and see what they brought to the table. There's no way I can miss Bret Hart on Raw. Especially since Michael Hickenbottom (Shawn Michaels) and Paul Levesque (Triple H) are on the same show he'll be on.

 

[Nicholas 2.0]

Obviously Hart. Being hinted to be a Guest Host was probably a huge wake-up call for people. I bet that in that ring, when it was announced, people were already texting or calling their fellow wrestling fans to tell them Bret Hart may return to WWE. WWE isn't hyping because either 1) They want the suprise to be extranomical, or 2) Bret hasn't reached a full deal yet.

Now hyping may be good, but I'm sick to death of watching Spike! TV every day, and every single commercial features "HULK HOGAN GOING TO TNA, OMG!!!!", and I'm just thinking, "Yes, we know already goddamnit." Hogan has been in the media spotlight, good and extremely bad, the past few years and I'm just sick of him running around and getting into trouble.

Many people never believed that Hart would set foot in the WWE ring again, but the next couple of weeks may just have fans waiting on the edge of their seats, waiting for the Hitman to make a re-appearance in over a decade to the WWE ring.

 

[Supersayin]

Everyone was either wiped out or swallowed, except for Memphis. AWA in Minnesota, Georgia, Florida, St Louis, Kansas City, Toronto, Western Canada, Portland, World Class in Dallas, UWF in New Orleans. All wiped out.

What made the WWF great was destroying the competition. TNA just made themselves next.

Who are you, Mcmahon's publicist. All the companies you just named no one gave a shit about them. They didnt have fans all around the world like TNA, they didnt have nearly 2 million viewers like TNA, they were competition not a threat like TNA.

It's ok to be a WWE fan boy who kisses Mcmahons ass, but to lick his balls just takes it to a whole new level.

 

[johnbragg]

Everyone was either wiped out or swallowed, except for Memphis. AWA in Minnesota, Georgia, Florida, St Louis, Kansas City, Toronto, Western Canada, Portland, World Class in Dallas, UWF in New Orleans. All wiped out.

What made the WWF great was destroying the competition. TNA just made themselves next.

Who are you, Mcmahon's publicist. All the companies you just named no one gave a shit about them. They didnt have fans all around the world like TNA, they didnt have nearly 2 million viewers like TNA, they were competition not a threat like TNA.

UWF and World Class would sell more tickets to one Superdome or Cotton Bowl show than TNA sells in an entire year. And they sold those tickets. For money. TNA can barely get people to walk through the door for free. When WWF bought Georgia's TBS timeslot, there was such an uproar and it was such a ratings disaster that Turner ended up selling national cable timeslots to Mid-South, Mid-Atlantic (WCW) and a reorganized Georgia group.

I don't have ratings numbers from the 1980s, but I'd bet that three or four of those promotions had better ratings than TNA does today.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Who are you, Mcmahon's publicist. All the companies you just named no one gave a shit about them.

That is one stupid fucking statement right there. Companies like the AWA, Bob Geigel's Central States Wrestling, Sam Muchnick's St. Louis Wrestling Club, Fritz Von Erich's World Class Championship Wrestling, Eddie Graham's Championship Wrestling From Florida, Georgia Championship Wrestling, Jim Crockett, Jr.'s Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling etc. many of these companies were pretty much the cornerstone for professional wrestling in the United States. Many of these promotions also were the foundation for WCW like the Georgia, Florida and Mid-Atlantic territories. Literally some of the greatest wrestling that there ever has been or ever will be came out of some of those companies that you've dissed. You really have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

They didnt have fans all around the world like TNA, they didnt have nearly 2 million viewers like TNA, they were competition not a threat like TNA.

Another idiotic statement. Take WCCW for example. There was a time that WCCW was able to put 30-40,000 fans into football stadiums in Texas. Their television show was syndicated via satellite all over the world, even to places as far off as Israel. WCCW actually even toured Israel on at least one occassion to sell out houses. There was a time that many of these companies, like WCCW and Georgia Championship Wrestling for instance, had more than the roughly 1.3 million viewers that TNA averages.

It's ok to be a WWE fan boy who kisses Mcmahons ass, but to lick his balls just takes it to a whole new level.

It's ok to be a complete TNA mark as well, but to try to claim that some of the biggest promotions in the history of wrestling weren't worth a shit is taking things overboard. You can like TNA all you want, I want TNA to succeed as well, but pull your head out of your ass and think first before you make such ridiculous statements. Many of those companies were great and, if TNA is lucky, they'll be able to achieve half the greatness some of those companies did.