Is WWE Racist?

[RatedR_HBK11]

I'm a black wrestling fan, and those who are claiming racist better highly consider what they're saying. I, as a part of the black community, personally think that Cryme Tyme's punishment is just. They were set for a push to the titles, and they saw how over they were with the crowd, but decide to go off and threaten someone's well-being. Who knows what the argument between them and Cade/Murdoch could have been about, but from what I've seen in the WWE, ya don't just go around ruffling feathers, especially not champions, the faces of the company.

Upon hearing about Cryme Tyme getting canned, I was pissed, but that was only because I thought they were funny. Once I heard WHY they were canned, I more or less let it go. I think everyone else should as well, we know why they got fored, it clearly isn't recism, so everyone should just tone it down.

 

[EPN17]

I certainly though feel there is an argument here. Look at the WWE Title. Not the World Title which was WCW's or the ECW title, look at the WWE title exclusively. Not arguably, it is the most prestigious title in the company. Look at the list of champions. Were are the African Americans??? You have the Rock that was Half Black and Half Samoan, that's it. You have Yokozuna that was Samoan and that's it. You have Eddie Guerrero for the latinos.. I think that's it folks, three minorities holding the companies most valuable piece of gold in it's 40 plus years of existence. Sure, King Booker and Lashley, Mysterio have been given runs, but with the B Belts of the company.

Yeah I guess you don't know your champs. Pedro Morales was the first Hispanic champ all the way back in the 70's, and the Iron Sheik was the first Middle eastern champ. Technically Antonio Inoki was also the first asian champ as he held a version of the belt. If you also count champs born outside North America you can add Sammartino (born in Italy and longest reign to date) and Andre the Giant (French). Coupled with the guys u named, that's close to a third of all WWE champions being a minority or born in some other part of the world. Doesn't look racist to me.

I think this argument is dumb. Like someone else said, they push guys who draw, no matter there skin color. Some one should look up and find out what percentage of North American professional wrestlers are minorities as a whole too (if such a stat somewhere exists) before they start calling racism as well.

CT got released because they pulled a move when they shouldn't have, not because they're black.

 

[Shocky]

I'll listen to Sammartino or Andre and all that, but, isn't the point of this about race. Last time I checked, Italians and the French aren't there own race, they are a nationality. Even Morales or Guerrero, with there hispanic back grounds, are considered white. Believe me, I have a degree in anthropology, I know more about race then most people would ever think.

People of Spanish decent are considered white. What makes them "non" white is there mixing with Native Americans, but still mostly white nonetheless.

Sure, I missed out on the Iron Sheik, but that was done as a stunt following the Iran Hostage Crisis. Plus, was the Sheik anything else but a transitional champion for Hulk Hogan anyway?

But back onto Bruno and Andre, Bruno = Italian, and Andre = French, and from what my eyes tell me, those are pretty white to me.

There is an argument here. I tend to go with Shadow more then anything with WWE exploits Stereotypes, but far from being racist...hopefully.

 

[NYSandman]

I don't think the company is racist, and maybe the reason there haven't been too many black champions is simply the luck of the draw, talent wise. Believe me, if fans started cheering Benjamin at the top of their lungs, and the buy rate went up every time he was in action, he WOULD be given a world title. Vince doesn't care if a guy has orange skin. Can he draw? Can he give me more money to stuff my pillow with? If the answer is yes, then that man will be champ.

The Rock is both talented in the ring, and a god on the mic, thus he was made champ. When a black dude comes along who all the fans really love, it will happen.

Now, there probably are SOME racist dicks in the WWE, either performers or staff. But, to say the whole of WWE is racist is wrong.

And, Cryme Tyme broke one of the oldest rules in wrestling. If another wrestler punched out your father, you could kick his ass in the parking lot, at home, in a grocery store, whatever. You do not, DO NOT EVER take liberties in the ring. Nor do you threaten to hurt someone in the ring. We've seen histories of guys who really did despise each other, yet would be professional and watch out for each other in the ring. That's how it should be. Cryme Tyme fucked up, and it's a shame to see them go.

 

[percyellis22]

My god YES! I mean come on, did anyone else see Wrestlemania 21???

Muhammad Hassan comes out, praises Allah and then beats the crap out of a mentally disabled guy, uses his thumb to signify cutting his head off and then strangles him until Captain America comes out and ends him.... I don't actually know what you'd have to be smoking to think that the WWE doesn't have racist stereotypes. I read that after all the crap that happened with Hassan the WWE said that they were trying to "outline the problems that a middle-eastern man faces in our culture"... Apparently those problems are large balding men with handlebar moustaches stopping you from killing the mentally ill... Hey I love wrestling as much as anyone else, but god I hate some parts of it. I could not believe that in such a horribly intolerant time they'd air something like that, directly antagonising an already volatile air in American racism.

Just because they put the strap on a black guy doesn't mean they don't have racial stereotypes.

 

[Bash_Legend_Killer]

'percyellis22' i just read your comment and i couldnt tell properly whether u were on Muhammad Hassans side or the WWEs.

But anyway, im a asian, im a muslim-pakistani, n Muhammad Hassan was my favourite wrestler when he was around, not because of his race but because of the attention he got n how hyped his matches seem to be, he was a true heel that made WWE better. I just hate the way he left WWE cos of that damn tv network...those f*ckers.

Now we have The Great Khali, but i dont like him as much as I liked Hassan.

 

[LipstickAndBruises]

I wouldnt call the entire company racist but they arent terribly progressive, sensitive or seemingly willng to go out of their way not to glorify negative and cliche racial sterotypes in general.....neither is the majority of entertainment in my opinion also neither is the majority of fans.

 

[percyellis22]

Well I'm not really on anyone's side. The WWE is a business and all they're trying to do is make money, and in the height of a racially strenuous time they decided that a good way to make money was to bring out an arab, kind of paint him as a terrorist in a lot of situations, make everybody hate him (god some of the commentary when he came out was just horrible) and hope to gain ratings like that. So what you have to understand is that because they're all about money and nothing is ever too far, of course they're going to pander to racial stereotypes at times. So I'm not really on anybody's side, I didn't like that Hassan was given the gimmick he was because I feel that middle-eastern racism in the US is a huge problem, but I appreciate that it wasn't thought about like that, it was just thought about with dollar signs in mind. I think if you're going to say the WWE is racist and bad what you really should be getting angry about is how WWE (and all big business for that matter) will do just about anything to boost their profits, and because of that will run just about any storyline without any sense of morality. Khali as champion surely proves that ;-)

 

[bioshock]

only racist stuff id say thats in wwe is not about color, but about muscle over skills or height over skills. sure rey, eddie, and benoit changed all that. but who is to say rey will ever be champ again, mean while batista gets every main event. ditto khali, lashley, cena and so on.

 

[scorpionz_venom]

Wow. I swear to God I was thinking about this earlier today. What we're looking at is a microcosm of society. Is WWE, better yet, wrestling racist? I can't say. The thing is that they have to market a product. That product has to have an image. I don't know if the core of WWE's audience is ready to take that step. Is America ready for a Black pres? Ask yourself that for real. WWE treads very thin ice with making a minority its face. I know, I know...Rock. He was an enigma when it came to charisma. But make no mistake about it, he was a very 'media friendly' character. When it was Booker T saying "Suckaaaa", he was doomed to be a mid-carder, because he reminds alot of people of Black America. Not Black people, Black America. It's a difference. The WWE has an audience and shareholders to appease. It sucks to be that way but THE SYSTEM is racist. That's why almost all former greats, and faces of the business have been Good Ol' Boys. Harley Race, Backland, Flair. The list goes on. Most of the popular faces in the history of the business who were minorities needed to have some gimmick to make them palpable to wrestling's fanbase. Is WWE/wrestling racist? The jury's still out. Is the system racist? Hell yes.

 

[Afro-Ameri-Spawn]

WWE IS racist. And the system cannot be blames when WWE is the front runner and sets the rone for the whole system. They pretty much own wrestling and make up what the fans begin to expect from wrestling. Black guys are held down and given "ghetto" gimmicks. Asian guys all have to do karate. Mexican guys are theives and cheater or horndogs. I mean seriously. Why are white guys the only wrestlers in the WWE with a WIDE spectrum of what they can have for a gimmick. They can be anything from an uppercrust snob to a biker, to a deadman to a pyromaniac to any damned thing on the scale. Minorities? Well let's see. When the gimmicks of today for minorities are so close to the gimmicks for minorities of 20 years ago, then that is DEFINITELY messed the fuck up!

 

[Shadowmancer]

Lets see here. You really are perpetuating this Racist idea, the style that Japanese Wrestlers have is for the most part very stiff in nature, and looks similar to karate or other Martial Arts, go watch Puro. You will see similar movesets to what you do in the States or in the WWE, You can't use Tajiri as an Example as he has been using his style his entire career not just when he was in the WWE or ECW, His whole Career. I do find it funny that when the WWE give Jimmy Yang (an awesome Talent in himself) a Cowboy/redneck gimmick you all call the WWE a racist for doing so. Black Guys that get held back, Booker was given a Title Reign last Year, his Booker T gimmick has been around for years, and was a build on from his life before Wrestling with the way he talked and acted. Elijah Burke is in a program with CM Punk right now, he isn't a ghetto gimmick it is a charismatic former boxer, I haven't seen a Face run by him yet but he could run with this as a Face gimmick. Cryme Tyme was a Stereotype and was a bit of a piss take of the whole gimmick idea as well. Bobby Lashley is a big guy that is built up as a strong silent type that hits hard, what is the ghetto relationship thing here. Lets go even further, The Rock is half-Samoan and half-Black, both his father Rocky Johnson and his Grandfather Peter Maivia are two of the most respected people in the history of Wrestling, And he was at first given the Hulk Hogan bland babyface gimmick and then he became a cocky Heel that everyone now calls one of the best. Batista is half-Filipino, Half-Greek I don't see any gimmick there(No real gimmick or skill there either but that is another story).

Lets go with The mexicans next. Lucha Libre been around for over 100 years it has been similar in style for years, I have yet to see Rey Mysterio act like a Theif, a Cheater or a "Horndog". Eddie Guerrero had been using the 'Lie, Cheat and Steal" gimmick for years. The Mexicools idea was a bit of Fun, with the Lawnmowers was a great touch for the stereotype of the lazy, Mexican Gardener, noone would take it seriously, from what I know there were no complaints about the gimmick when it started.

But from what I understand from you Spawn you would want everyone to use the same moveset and be all boring as a dried-out turd (Cena's gimmick), rather than the diversity that has come from the introduction of the style of other wrestling Cultures of Japan and Mexico. If you look at it Canadians are also given the same gimmicks, that of good Wrestlers, you don't see people claiming racism here, Brits are all shown as Technical geniuses, you never hear people complain about that. There are even more that can be gone into, there is so many Gimmicks out there that are the same at the very basic level based on where they are from that this idea of these Gimmicks that are given to Black, Hispanic and Japanese wrestlers are all the same, you are not looking and are being blinded by the view that the WWE is Racist based on the high profile gimmicks that are labelled as "racist". I can poke holes in your arguments based on a number of huge ways. You are over simplifying what is very complicated while at the same time being very simple. Gimmicks that would be considered to be very racist the Wrestler would step in and say that. He would have the ability to do so, creative would respect that the Wrestler would feel that way and work around it.

 

[scorpionz_venom]

To Spawn: The reason I call the system racist, and not just WWE, is because it goes WAAYYY back in wrestling. Be completely honest with yourself...given his popularity, shouldn't Junkyard Dog have been given a run with the Title? You know he should. That's not even a knock against WWE, but their crowd wasn't ready for a Black Champ. And be clear, I'm not talking about the belt, while misrepresented, there have been minority champs, all the way back to Morales. I'm talking about the FACE OF WRESTLING. Flair, Hogan, Stone Cold, The Rock, Cena. The Rock is a minority, yes. But after ALL THIS TIME, why is he the only one to be the face of wrestling? The crowd isn't ready for it. The crowd couldn't identify fully with Booker T. That's why he was given an over-the-top character in King Bookah. It's just how the system is. Even then, he isn't the face of the company. I say let the best man have it. No one's been more over than Stone Cold, Hogan, or Flair, but WHY O WHY wasn't Jimmy Snuka ever the top face in wrestling? I just don't think minorities have been given the same shot.

To Shadowmancer: Open your eyes, man. It is what it is. I don't know if WWE is blatantly racist. Maybe, maybe not. And there are multiple factors determining who "gets the ball to run with". Don't think for a second though that race isn't one of those factors. I'm not even talking about titles. Its easy to slap a belt on a guy for a few months to silence critics-Rey, Booker, Eddie. But you can count on one hand, minorities who were "Da Man" for any real amount of time. Morales and Rock.

Racist gimmicks are nothing new, and won't change. I can live with that. As a kid, I thought The Wild Samoans/Headshrinkers, and that Asian dude with the writing all over his body were some of the best in the WWE. Run with it. Cryme Tyme and Los Guerreros was kinda a slap in the face, but hey they were over (mostly with White people) because you get a cheap giggle out of society. JBL and Mr. McMahon do the same for WASP's. It is what it is. Some of it IS racist. Wrestling is just a spoof of America, which IS racist. Anybody who thinks different has wool over their eyes.

 

[zeus3007]

It's difficult to decide whether they are racist, or whether they use racism to their advantage. Either way is wrong. One thing that is for certain, professional wrestling (not just WWE) used to be racist. The first African American to hold a Wrold Title was Ron SImmons, and this wasn't until the early 90's. However, recently WWE has put the World Title on guys like Booker T, Batista (Phillipino), Rey Mysterio, The Great Khali, and Lashley. If you look back, the biggest star they have produced since Hogan is The Rock. It's hard to argue that they are racist. However, if you look at how certain ethnicities are depicted, you could make an argument that they are. Wrestlers of Middle Eastern descent are always 100 % of the time put in as heels, and are often shown to be of little intelligence. Is the WWE creating this stereotype, or just playing off the feelings of the American populace? Either way, they are feeding the discriminatory fires when it comes to Middle Eastern stereotypes.

 

[david703]

I do not think the WWE is racist at ALL! Quite the opposite! Look at the history of the WWE, they had the Iron Sheikh winning the title ending backlunds streak. They have always done what they had to do for the good of the business which means entertainment. That also means giving the fans what they want to see. The WWE has a diverse crowd now, and we see the title switching between khali, booker, Rey Mysterio, Battista, etc. The demographic of the crowd historically and the popularity of the WWE was in small predominantly white towns so naturally to stay in business they had to do what they had to, but that is not to say that they did not give the fans any minorities to cheer for. That is more the fault of the public than the WWE. I think the WWE does not get enough credit for the past and present for employing diversity. The WWE have/had a midget champion and a one legged guy along with diverse races and religions. Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Jews, etc. I think the networks are more racist than anything. It was a crime to take Muhammed Hassan off of the networks because his character was too controversial. Apparently he was well liked and doing his job of entertaining and doing it well. I don't think that is the WWE's fault, and they should be acclaimed going so far back and treating wrestlers equally on the basis of entertainment.

 

[scorpionz_venom]

Bullshit, David. On one count, I agree that minorities have been able to find work in the WWE, but like with any company, if you hire minorities, but don't give them the same opportunity for advancement, it is still discrimination. Nobody can answer why Snuka was never given the ball. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a window when his popularity rivaled Hogan's? I'm sure there was. This guy was a revolutionary high flyer for his time. He had the look, and everything. Everyone was behind him. Why didn't he get it? Was it the headband? Wrestling barefoot? The dude should have gotten a go at it. There have been minority champs, but look at the disparity. Steamboat should've been higher, Santana should've been higher. They weren't held back just because of their size. Again, the WWE can throw the strap on anyone to pass time, or avoid judgement. Quit being so ignorant to the facts. Maybe its not so bad nowadays, but it's still bad. And it's not just WWE, it's everywhere.

The general populace thinks Batista is white. Don't kid yourselves. If slavery kicked back in, he'd walk freely. Not to denounce his heritage, but Batista is more palpable to White America. Like someone said earlier, these small towns, esp. in the midwest and south are often stuck in their racist ways. It is what it is people. Rey and Eddie were given the title to tap into the growing Hispanic demographic. Talented as hell, deserving of a run with the strap, but if Hispanics weren't growing so fast, I doubt Eddie and Rey wouldve gotten that chance.

 

[maddawg]

I'm going to put the nail in the coffin on this one. I don't think the WWE being racist has a thing to do anything. I just think it comes down talent and most important of all the to WWE. RATINGS!

 

[scorpionz_venom]

Justification, people. We don't want to appear racist. God forbid we enjoy and support something that is associated with discrimination. We rationalize and justify some actions so we can look ourselves in the mirror. Don't worry. WWE is not the evil empire, and not everyone who enjoyed the silly antics of those loveable Cryme Tyme fellas is a racist. But there are some things going on that are fucked up, whether intentionally, or passively. Blatantly, or subconciously. Is WWE racist? Who knows?

 

[Shadowmancer]

Bullshit, David. On one count, I agree that minorities have been able to find work in the WWE, but like with any company, if you hire minorities, but don't give them the same opportunity for advancement, it is still discrimination. Nobody can answer why Snuka was never given the ball. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a window when his popularity rivaled Hogan's? I'm sure there was. This guy was a revolutionary high flyer for his time. He had the look, and everything. Everyone was behind him. Why didn't he get it? Was it the headband? Wrestling barefoot? The dude should have gotten a go at it. There have been minority champs, but look at the disparity. Steamboat should've been higher, Santana should've been higher. They weren't held back just because of their size. Again, the WWE can throw the strap on anyone to pass time, or avoid judgement. Quit being so ignorant to the facts. Maybe its not so bad nowadays, but it's still bad. And it's not just WWE, it's everywhere.

The general populace thinks Batista is white. Don't kid yourselves. If slavery kicked back in, he'd walk freely. Not to denounce his heritage, but Batista is more palpable to White America. Like someone said earlier, these small towns, esp. in the midwest and south are often stuck in their racist ways. It is what it is people. Rey and Eddie were given the title to tap into the growing Hispanic demographic. Talented as hell, deserving of a run with the strap, but if Hispanics weren't growing so fast, I doubt Eddie and Rey wouldve gotten that chance.

The era of Snuka being as popular as hogan was during the time of backlund and Hogan, not the best of time for him to be a good wrestler an over with the crowd and get pushed for being a highflyer because this was during the time where the thinking was and it still is to an extent the bigger guys draw more. Superfly wasn't that big in terms of size, thereby he wasn't given the ball too run with.

 

[RabidChihuahua]

To throw my .02 in on the original question, it's something that I never really thought about.

I mean, when you're watching wrestling is the first thing on your mind the color of the performer's skin? Or is it that they're entertaining you? Would we like for everyone to get the same opportunities in wrestling as everyone else? Sure, but there's no way for everyone to be world champ, although at times (not lately however) it seems like titles were being traded on a weekly or nightly basis.

That being said, I believe someone said earlier that the only color WWE is interested in is green. I believe this is very true, but the green comes from who? The public attending live shows and paying for pay-per-views and tv ratings. So, I guess then the question becomes are wrestling fans racist? Because the WWE and most wrestling organizations (for the most part) won't continue to shove someone who's getting no reaction down our throats.

The answer to that question is as varied as the individuals watching.

 

[percyellis22]

Yeah... I wish I'd said that... I hate message boards sometimes.

I hate how people always look for a black or white answer to a gray question though. Of course you could argue either way, the fact is that the WWE does and has played storylines and gimmicks in the past which were very clearly racist, surely the point of the argument is surely just to what degree, and why. Is the company absolved of any racial implications because of their blind pursuit of money and ratings, or is the fact that they are willing to use racist storylines and gimmicks for money make them even more implicated? To people who say that they don't use racist gimmicks or storylines... What are you taking stupid pills again, c'mon. *hopes Arrested Development fans are reading*

By the way, The Rock is hardly a minority.

When it comes to champions being champions, the WWE will just do what it thinks will generate money. Because of that, if a big-shot in the company decides that a black/asian/middle-eastern guy shouldn't be champion regardless of popularity then he's racist, but also bad at his job and would certainly be risking it by not making the wrestler champion, and in that sense the system if anything prevents racism. Whether or not people of an ethnic minority in general are given the same chance or the same broad choice of gimmick is another matter I suppose though. I think America is certainly still reasonably racist and that's just the way it is.

But again... C'mon... Please, just watch the Hassan/Hogan/Eugene confrontation in Wrestlemania 21 again, if anybody says the WWE is devoid of racism then surely that 5 - 10 minutes of footage would have to silence any argument.... Seriously... That only says one thing, and it's not that you should harbor middle-eastern refugees in your country. Daivari is actually shouting in Eugene's face in Arabic while Hassan is pulling his head off (after symbolising that he wants to cut his head off)...

 

[Shadowmancer]

Daivari wasn't shouting in Arabic, he was shouting in Farsi, different language, older actually, the basics of which were being spoken back before Alexander the Great.

Any how To finish of what I was posting.

The idea of the WWE being Rascist is a stupid one, this is a case of people wanting to bash the WWE for everything without looking at the positives that they do. Im going to be fairly tame here and say that the proportion of White Wrestlers in the US to Black Wrestlers is scewed towards a lot more white Wrestlers this would in theory mean that there will be less chance for a Black to be pushed. this is over all not just in the WWE.

 

[percyellis22]

Right... Well then I guess you're right, on the basic principal that Daivari was speaking in Farsi, not Arabic, people want to bash the WWE for everything and that there are more white wrestlers than black wrestlers...? I'm not sure I follow...

 

[Shadowmancer]

It was supposed to be two different points there but, they got messed up. This entire Thread is a pot shot at the WWE, which by the way will probably never read this, but there are too many people looking for all of the negatives rather than looking for the positives, I will admit to that in my case I do that to, but that was the first point.

The second point is the Ratio of Black Wrestlers to White Wrestlers which to a greater degree is what this thread is about (in itself can be interpreted as racist) with more white wrestlers that would mean that there would be less black wrestlers pushed, simple math, you do not overpush the group that is less represented as that is disproportionate to reality, if there were an equal number of Black Wrestlers to White Wrestlers than I would expect that the number of Black Wrestlers getting pushed would be equal to the number of White Wrestlers being pushed, simple proportional math.

I have said it another thread as well as this one that the basics of the entire system of having gimmicks is to use the crowds stereotypes and fears as a promotional tool to make more money this is not just the WWE but harks back to the days of the NWA and the AWA, but then again there are no pleasing some people on this site who do not see that the ratio has improved, which in theory would mean that more black wrestlers will get pushed and given the title.

Oh and the person that said that The Rock doesn't count please explain to me why he should be disregarded here, is it because it shoots down your argument? Being half-Samoan and half-Black does not make him anyless of a "Minority" Wrestler. Because of his success you discount him, there is a flaw there that you should look into as he is a minority wrestler that made it, like Jimmy Snuka (Who was unlucky enough to be around the time of Hogan).

 

[Shadowmancer]

JBL does it to get heat. He is the one that did a Nazi March in Germany to get Heat. (Which it is illegal to do, he got out of it because it is clasified as entertainment) But look at it this way JBL doing this gets good heat something that people are finding hard to do these days, if he has to play the race card to get cheap Heat than so be it. But it does work. Welcome to the boards btw.