IMPACT Wrestling LD for 10.20.11 (everyone read first post)

[Slyfox696]

See that I could believe and dig. Again, personal feelings coming in here, but if anyone was "ready" and deserved to be champ, it's Morgan. I hope somehow he gets into the title picture soon. Much rather have Morgan than either Roode or Storm as champ. Plus, that belt would look so good on Morgan.

He has the look of a World Champion, he was hanging around the main-event, and he really would have made the most sense.

I believe the Bound For Glory Series was mostly booked to get him over, as well as build other matches for Bound For Glory (maybe even a Roode vs. Storm breakup?). Morgan's injury, of course, derailed those plans.

I would buy that, but the problem is you can book around it. Morgan was back in the ring by No Surrender.

But that was only a month before Bound For Glory. It would be hard to build up heat for a returning wrestler in just a month.

There were ways in the tournament to lose points, so Morgan could have still made it in.

Perhaps, but how cheap would that have been? And what if Morgan's rehab didn't go as quickly as expected?

No, you make the safe bet, and rule him out. There's always next year's Bound For Glory.

Also, it comes off as stupid booking to put a pair of midcard matches that we've seen before over the main event in priorities.

Not sure what you mean.

 

[JJYanks121]

Plus, if ANYONE has the personality to go out and promote Impact Wrestling as its champion, it's Morgan. Great guy and very likeable. He would have made all the sense in the world and I still hold out hope that he gets there sooner than later.

As for what KB meant, I'm pretty sure he's saying that the first thing you need to plan out when putting together a 4 month long tournament is your winner. If you planned it by saying "ok, we'll eliminate AJ with Daniels and RVD with Lynn and we'll put Pope, Devon and Steiner in even though they all suck, so who do we have left that can win?" that's stupid. If they picked a winner first and then did the other stuff, that's fine, but you don't set up a tournament for subplots without having the main plot down.

 

[justinsayne]

Why didn't they just book tonight's ME title match as a triple threat? Just make it Roode vs. Angle vs. Storm, have Angle get taken out early by a double team or something, Roode & Storm go back & forth for a bit, Angle jumps back in a reinserts himself into the match, maybe hits Roode with an Angle Slam, and then gets up & turn around right into a super kick from Storm? that would get the title off Angle, put it on Storm, & set the foundation for Roode/Storm Title match at Turning Point.

 

[klunderbunker]

But that was only a month before Bound For Glory. It would be hard to build up heat for a returning wrestler in just a month.

I'd disagree with that. A month is a long time in wrestling. Most PPVs anymore have a month for build and they work ok.

Perhaps, but how cheap would that have been? And what if Morgan's rehab didn't go as quickly as expected?

Not as cheap as it sounds. All you would have to do is get him into the top 4 in points. He had 25 when he was injured. 40 got Storm into the top four guys. You also have Joe running around injuring people so taking out another top of the list guy was an option. Morgan wrestled at the PPV so it wouldn't have been that hard. 2 pins, even quick rollups at house shows, would have gotten him more than enough points to get in. With as many ways as they had available, I think they could have made it work and in a way that wasn't cheap.

Not sure what you mean.

You talked about them wanting to do Daniels/AJ and RVD/Lynn, which are matches that have been done multiple times each. Either RVD or AJ would have made better opponents than Roode for the PPV or at least more credible ones. However, since TNA was so deadset on those two matches and had been for months, they couldn't let one of them get in instead. That to me comes off as short sighted because they gave us a weak main event instead.

 

[JJYanks121]

Why didn't they just book tonight's ME title match as a triple threat? Just make it Roode vs. Angle vs. Storm, have Angle get taken out early by a double team or something, Roode & Storm go back & forth for a bit, Angle jumps back in a reinserts himself into the match, maybe hits Roode with an Angle Slam, and then gets up & turn around right into a super kick from Storm? that would get the title off Angle, put it on Storm, & set the foundation for Roode/Storm Title match at Turning Point.

That...........is a really good idea. Much better than what we got. Well played.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Why didn't they just book tonight's ME title match as a triple threat? Just make it Roode vs. Angle vs. Storm, have Angle get taken out early by a double team or something, Roode & Storm go back & forth for a bit, Angle jumps back in a reinserts himself into the match, maybe hits Roode with an Angle Slam, and then gets up & turn around right into a super kick from Storm? that would get the title off Angle, put it on Storm, & set the foundation for Roode/Storm Title match at Turning Point.

That can't be....that's logic rearing it's ugly head.. Congrats to James Storm regardless though.

 

[Slyfox696]

Why didn't they just book tonight's ME title match as a triple threat? Just make it Roode vs. Angle vs. Storm, have Angle get taken out early by a double team or something, Roode & Storm go back & forth for a bit, Angle jumps back in a reinserts himself into the match, maybe hits Roode with an Angle Slam, and then gets up & turn around right into a super kick from Storm? that would get the title off Angle, put it on Storm, & set the foundation for Roode/Storm Title match at Turning Point.

You obviously forgot about the stipulation in the contract Bischoff and Hogan put in.

I'd disagree with that. A month is a long time in wrestling. Most PPVs anymore have a month for build and they work ok.

Very few PPVs have less than a month of build. And when you're trying to REALLY put someone over, a month just isn't enough time.

Matt Morgan is a guy who can be your prime time player. He has the look of someone who can lead your company for years to come. Thus, you want to give him a good build, really build heat behind him, and then have the big payoff.

There's no need to rush it. Indeed, rushing could hurt him.

Not as cheap as it sounds. All you would have to do is get him into the top 4 in points. He had 25 when he was injured. 40 got Storm into the top four guys. You also have Joe running around injuring people so taking out another top of the list guy was an option. Morgan wrestled at the PPV so it wouldn't have been that hard. 2 pins, even quick rollups at house shows, would have gotten him more than enough points to get in. With as many ways as they had available, I think they could have made it work and in a way that wasn't cheap.

Your paragraph screams "cheap" to me.

You're going to build your next huge superstar on the back of another guy injuring people and you rolling them up for a pin? Hardly an impressive way to get a 6'9" monster nicknamed "The Blueprint" over as a credible kickass worker with mega heat.

You talked about them wanting to do Daniels/AJ and RVD/Lynn, which are matches that have been done multiple times each. Either RVD or AJ would have made better opponents than Roode for the PPV or at least more credible ones. However, since TNA was so deadset on those two matches and had been for months, they couldn't let one of them get in instead. That to me comes off as short sighted because they gave us a weak main event instead.

C'mon, KB, you're better than this.

Jerry Lynn vs. RVD and AJ Styles vs. Chris Daniels is going to sell a whole lot more PPVs than Chris Daniels vs. Bobby Roode.

What's the hook to buy RVD vs. Roode? Why buy that match? RVD vs. Lynn has a rich history behind it, with a series of matches Internet marks swear by. The same for Daniels and Styles. Not only do Roode and RVD's style clash, not only are Roode and Styles both faces, the build for those matches couldn't match RVD vs. Lynn, and Styles vs. Daniels.

Sting vs. Hogan and Angle vs. BFG Series winner were the main draws to the card. No dispute the main-events sell shows. But who would you put Angle with in the main-event that would draw better than Roode? Better to have matches to draw Internet marks on, when there would be no noticeable difference in the main-event.

 

[klunderbunker]

Very few PPVs have less than a month of build. And when you're trying to REALLY put someone over, a month just isn't enough time.

Matt Morgan is a guy who can be your prime time player. He has the look of someone who can lead your company for years to come. Thus, you want to give him a good build, really build heat behind him, and then have the big payoff.

Haven't they been doing that for years now? How much more time do they need to build him up? He was in the main event of a few PPVs a few years ago and then they dropped it. I get that he was probably wanted him to be that next guy, but I don't think they had to pick Roode, who is probably one of the weakest guys they could have picked.

Your paragraph screams "cheap" to me.

You're going to build your next huge superstar on the back of another guy injuring people and you rolling them up for a pin? Hardly an impressive way to get a 6'9" monster nicknamed "The Blueprint" over as a credible kickass worker with mega heat.

If he's too injured to do anything other than that, yeah. Have him throw a Carbon Footprint (if he could have) and pin them fast that way if nothing else.

C'mon, KB, you're better than this.

Jerry Lynn vs. RVD and AJ Styles vs. Chris Daniels is going to sell a whole lot more PPVs than Chris Daniels vs. Bobby Roode.

I'm certainly not speaking for the masses, but I've seen enough AJ vs. Daniels to last me multiple lifetimes. Lynn, I have zero interest in seeing on PPV as well.

What's the hook to buy RVD vs. Roode? Why buy that match?

There is none, primarily because Roode is terribly boring as a singles wrestler and shouldn't be one. I heard for years how he was this star in waiting and I never saw it.

RVD vs. Lynn has a rich history behind it, with a series of matches Internet marks swear by.

Yeah they do, and as with Daniels/AJ, it's stuff I've seen far too much before.

Not only do Roode and RVD's style clash, not only are Roode and Styles both faces, the build for those matches couldn't match RVD vs. Lynn, and Styles vs. Daniels.

And again, Roode has no business being a singles guy. The only singles run he had before was as the Wall Street guy and I was so uninterested in him I couldn't stand it.

Before you go into that, yes I know that has little to do with this and doesn't make a difference.

Sting vs. Hogan and Angle vs. BFG Series winner were the main draws to the card. No dispute the main-events sell shows. But who would you put Angle with in the main-event that would draw better than Roode? Better to have matches to draw Internet marks on, when there would be no noticeable difference in the main-event.

As in internet marks that are probably going to watch the show online for free?

What you're saying makes sense, but I disagreed with most of the upper midcard booking for BFG in the first place. What I saw worked for the most part, but if they took off AJ vs. Daniels, things could have been shuffled quite a bit.

 

[X]

So....started watching the show right now. I have a theory, hopefully an original one. What if this whole Hogan/Sting/Bischoff angle was a kind of way for Hogan and Bischoff to try to pay Sting back for Starrcade 97? Think about it, they had Hogan tapping like a bitch in the middle of the ring clean for Sting at BFG and this whole angle has been about how Bischoff led Hogan astray and how he took it out on Sting unfairly. Isn't that sort of a mirror image of what actually happened in WCW and now TNA? I mean, Bischoff and Hogan were sharks back then, I don't know if they still are (who knows with all this Roode/Storm talk) but the fact that they did this whole program to put Sting over seems pretty cool. But then of course afterwards Hogan had to Hulk Up and take the spotlight. But I think Sting may have wanted that. I don't know, I'm probably just reading too far into things kayfabe and non-kayfabe. I'm a bit drunk and rambling.

I really enjoyed Bound for Glory. I REALLY fucking hope 2012 is a better, new, original, creative, not piece-of-shit year like 2010 and 2011 were for the most part for this company.

 

[Gelgarin]

Sorry 'bout your damn luck!

Just finished this weeks offerings. Loved it. Even Velvet Sky managed to be unintentionally hilarious. Pity Angle was so clearly injured, but I can't bring myself to care. James Storm, my favourite guy in the company right now, is world champion. Fucking awesome, he was brilliant in every segment tonight.

 

[Ferreira]

Loved the Last Call superkick, was perfect. If Storm didn't hit it nicely it would hurt the match even more.

I've seen Shawn Michaels win matches with only a Superkick so it's not a surprise.

 

[Slyfox696]

Haven't they been doing that for years now? How much more time do they need to build him up? He was in the main event of a few PPVs a few years ago and then they dropped it. I get that he was probably wanted him to be that next guy, but I don't think they had to pick Roode, who is probably one of the weakest guys they could have picked.

I don't watch TNA regularly, but from the research I've gathered (read: Wikipedia research) it doesn't seem to me they dropped it, as much as got him exposure, backed off to build him up more, and then initiated BFG Series to put him over.

If he's too injured to do anything other than that, yeah. Have him throw a Carbon Footprint (if he could have) and pin them fast that way if nothing else.

Again, that's just cheap and hurts the credibility of the entire process, as well as the other wrestlers in the Series.

I'm certainly not speaking for the masses, but I've seen enough AJ vs. Daniels to last me multiple lifetimes. Lynn, I have zero interest in seeing on PPV as well.

I love AJ vs. Daniels. And, like you, I have no interest in seeing Lynn, but as you said, we don't represent the TNA masses.

As in internet marks that are probably going to watch the show online for free?

No, as in the Internet marks who buy TNA PPVs on an irregular basis, but would strongly consider buying this PPV because it's BFG.

If you have Persons A-Z, Persons A,T, and Z might buy the January PPV. B and C might buy the February PPV. A, F, and P might buy March. And so on and down the line.

But for Bound For Glory, you want Persons A-Z buying the show.

What you're saying makes sense, but I disagreed with most of the upper midcard booking for BFG in the first place. What I saw worked for the most part, but if they took off AJ vs. Daniels, things could have been shuffled quite a bit.

I don't see why it was necessary.

From most things I've read, the Bound For Glory card was quite good.

So....started watching the show right now. I have a theory, hopefully an original one. What if this whole Hogan/Sting/Bischoff angle was a kind of way for Hogan and Bischoff to try to pay Sting back for Starrcade 97? Think about it, they had Hogan tapping like a bitch in the middle of the ring clean for Sting at BFG and this whole angle has been about how Bischoff led Hogan astray and how he took it out on Sting unfairly. Isn't that sort of a mirror image of what actually happened in WCW and now TNA? I mean, Bischoff and Hogan were sharks back then, I don't know if they still are (who knows with all this Roode/Storm talk) but the fact that they did this whole program to put Sting over seems pretty cool. But then of course afterwards Hogan had to Hulk Up and take the spotlight. But I think Sting may have wanted that. I don't know, I'm probably just reading too far into things kayfabe and non-kayfabe. I'm a bit drunk and rambling.

I really enjoyed Bound for Glory. I REALLY fucking hope 2012 is a better, new, original, creative, not piece-of-shit year like 2010 and 2011 were for the most part for this company.

I thought about that as well, though I don't know if I'd say it was for Sting as much as I would say it was for the wrestling fans. Perhaps both.

 

[Coco]

You know what builds up Storm better than being the default challenger number one for Roode? This. Everyone is talking about both of them. Oh how I love TNA.

 

[Joe's Gonna Kill You]

Would you guys do Storm/Roode right away at the next PPV or would let it build more and save that match for later?

 

[jmt225]

I think they need to let the tension build for a while before giving the fans that program. In the meantime, Storm should simply go over a couple of guys like Joe and Abyss to give him some legitimate title defenses before entering a long term feud.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I think they need to let the tension build for a while before giving the fans that program. In the meantime, Storm should simply go over a couple of guys like Joe and Abyss to give him some legitimate title defenses before entering a long term feud.

Still think Bully Ray is a legitimate option. Fortune/Immortal heat.

 

[jmt225]

Still think Bully Ray is a legitimate option. Fortune/Immortal heat.

Definitely a good choice.

 

[klunderbunker]

Would you guys do Storm/Roode right away at the next PPV or would let it build more and save that match for later?

Wait. That could be built up for a very long time, even up to next year's BFG. They've never had their big match and as at worst the second biggest team in company history, you should build this up for months. There are a bunch of ways you can go with this too.

 

[klunderbunker]

I don't watch TNA regularly, but from the research I've gathered (read: Wikipedia research) it doesn't seem to me they dropped it, as much as got him exposure, backed off to build him up more, and then initiated BFG Series to put him over.

I'm still not sold that the Series was totally for Morgan but more along the lines of they weren't sure who they were going with at BFG so they were keeping their options open.

Again, that's just cheap and hurts the credibility of the entire process, as well as the other wrestlers in the Series.

There were multiple matches like that and if it can keep Morgan in the title hunt with him being in the final four without cheating, I don't think I'd call it cheap. Most fans probably aren't going to remember or care about how he got there once he's in the title match at BFG. I can't imagine a quick Carbon Footprint to D-Von or Pope would have hurt things that much.

No, as in the Internet marks who buy TNA PPVs on an irregular basis, but would strongly consider buying this PPV because it's BFG.

Possibly, but given how we saw AJ vs. Daniels on PPVs earlier in the year and on Impact, I'm not sure how many people would pay to see it again at BFG. RVD vs. Lynn.....perhaps.

If you have Persons A-Z, Persons A,T, and Z might buy the January PPV. B and C might buy the February PPV. A, F, and P might buy March. And so on and down the line.

But for Bound For Glory, you want Persons A-Z buying the show.

Well yeah of course, but why as a fan would I want to buy BFG for a match they had shown on Impact and a fairly weak main event? A solid main event and a fresh match would have intrigued me more.

I don't see why it was necessary.

From most things I've read, the Bound For Glory card was quite good.

It was, although the general consensus was that AJ vs. Daniels was the weakest match on the card, although to be fair that was mainly due to the stipulation screwing it up.

 

[Gelgarin]

Depends if you want to turn one or not. If you want a big, one off, face vs face match then you'd be best to save it for a few months. If you want to turn one guy heel and have them work an extensive program then you're best off doing it immediately. Roode is carrying more momentum at the moment as a result of main eventing BFG than he is likely to be after six months of undercard feuds.

It was, although the general consensus was that AJ vs. Daniels was the weakest match on the card, although to be fair that was mainly due to the stipulation screwing it up.

The card had women on it.

 

[klunderbunker]

Depends if you want to turn one or not. If you want a big, one off, face vs face match then you'd be best to save it for a few months. If you want to turn one guy heel and have them work an extensive program then you're best off doing it immediately. Roode is carrying more momentum at the moment as a result of main eventing BFG than he is likely to be after six months of undercard feuds.



The card had women on it.

I tend to leave them out of most thoughts on wrestling.

 

[Coco]

General consensus is wrong. Angle vs. Roode was the weakest match on the card. Angle was a step slower than usual, it was way too finisher-heavy, and I was worn down from the previous bout. Turrible.

AJ vs. Daneils stole the show for me.

 

[X]

General consensus is wrong. Angle vs. Roode was the weakest match on the card. Angle was a step slower than usual, it was way too finisher-heavy, and I was worn down from the previous bout. Turrible.

AJ vs. Daneils stole the show for me.

Would you mind explaining why AJ vs Daniels stole the show for you?

It was good, but it was nothing we haven't seen from them approximately 12 billion times before.

Watching the rest of Impact now. I liked the promo segment between Roode/Angle/Sting/Storm, but man, opening your show with a fucking FORTY FIVE MINUTE LONG PROMO is not exactly starting off the next year of angles for TNA on a good foot. Promo was pretty good but man, so much unnecessary parts, they could have cut out large chunks of the entire Dixie speech (or scrapped it altogether) and been much better off. You should never have your WRESTLING show open with 45 minutes of promos and no actual wrestling, that's just shit.

Also doesn't help that when they did finally have a match, it was the women.

 

[X]

Oh and the highlight of this entire show was the part where D'Lo Brown and Al Snow came out to separate Jeff Jarrett and Jeff Hardy, and then they got in each other's faces and D'Lo did his trademark head-swag thing. I marked like a bitch just for him doing the head -swag. D'Lo, that dude fuckin' rules. Talk about criminally underrated.