How long will John Cena's reign last?

[newwaveknight]

i can understand my posts just fine.. sometimes i misspell a few words here and there because i have a life and i dont take all day to edit forum posts, okay?

You don't have to have a lack of social life to type coherently, just a first-grade education.

yeah i read everyone elses comments. they basically argued with me saying that john cena is their favorite superstar and argued how many people he put over.

I...don't recall ANYBODY on this thread saying that John Cena is their favorite superstar. If you can find me a quote from (as you claim) everybody who has posted here saying that Cena is their favorite superstar (direct quotes and the post number on the thread so I can verify the quote), then I will go to a WWE event and join the McMahon's Kiss My Ass Club.

As far as how many people he has put over? He has put people over. Sheamus cemented himself as a long-staying name in this company when he won the strap off of Cena. The Miz's WWE Championship run sucked before he feuded with Cena AND headlined Wrestlemania, something that would have NEVER happened with anyone else who challenged him for the belt. Since Cena has some pull backstage, he used it to give those people chanting "We want Ryder" what they wanted, and Ryder became U.S. Champion. Like I said, CM Punk could drop all the pipe bombs he wanted, but nobody would have cared how much kayfabe he violated if he was feuding with someone other than Cena.

in the attitude era, he would be a mid carder.

How is that a basis for your argument? Yeah, Cena would have been a mid-carder in the Attitude era because that era was focused WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less on in-ring action or story and instead focused more on sex and profanity. Since Stone Cold was down to Five Moves of Doom before he got his first WWE Championship run (not entirely his fault though, since he was on the receiving end of that botched piledriver from Owen Hart) and he doesn't have the storytelling talent to make any changes in character (you ever wonder why he was a midcarder through every other gimmick he did?), he would have been a mid-carder in any other era other than the Attitude era.

But that's how wrestling works: sometimes somebody comes along at the right place, the right time, and magic happens. John Cena was that guy for this era, and the shows are better for it, since no other current superstar on the roster has got anywhere CLOSE to his level of popularity.

Hell, I asked my fiance yesterday (who knows NOTHING about wrestling) to list three pro-wrestlers. Her response: Hulk Hogan, The Rock, and John Cena.

Nobody in wrestling gets to THAT level of popularity unless they have something special.

 

[CmPunker]

You don't have to have a lack of social life to type coherently, just a first-grade education.

i know how to fucking spell.

I...don't recall ANYBODY on this thread saying that John Cena is their favorite superstar. If you can find me a quote from (as you claim) everybody who has posted here saying that Cena is their favorite superstar (direct quotes and the post number on the thread so I can verify the quote), then I will go to a WWE event and join the McMahon's Kiss My Ass Club.

you didnt say it, but u fucking implied it. do u know what imply means? the way u keep on defending john cena and his character, and u also said that his character is interesting.. u implied that u love john cena.. imply means to tell something without saying it directly. go read a dictionary

As far as how many people he has put over? He has put people over. Sheamus cemented himself as a long-staying name in this company when he won the strap off of Cena. The Miz's WWE Championship run sucked before he feuded with Cena AND headlined Wrestlemania, something that would have NEVER happened with anyone else who challenged him for the belt. Since Cena has some pull backstage, he used it to give those people chanting "We want Ryder" what they wanted, and Ryder became U.S. Champion. Like I said, CM Punk could drop all the pipe bombs he wanted, but nobody would have cared how much kayfabe he violated if he was feuding with someone other than Cena.

he didnt put over sheamus, triple h did.. sheamus took out triple h for 11 months.. john cena made sheamus look like a pussy, triple h made sheamus look like a legitimate world class fighter.

okay first of all, it was randy orton that put over the miz, not john cena.. the miz beat randy ortno 3 times in a row.. while the miz needed the rock's help to beat john cena, and then after that, cena beat the miz 3 times in a fucking row.. THREE fucking times in A ROW!!! losing 3 times in A ROW is not good.. at least try to keep the miz protected, but no, wwe isnt smart enough, right? where is the miz now? hes struggling to even get a match in a B show ppv..

okay. zack ryder got HIMSELF over, john cena did not put him over.. john cena slowed his fucking momentum, even wwe slowed his momentum, hell zack ryder's own character slowed his momentum.. how did john cena put him over? by saying his catchphrase at the same time?? pff give me a fucking break.. so what if they shared a segment together, that counts as putting over? thats like saying john cena put over hornswoggle because they shared a backstage segment.. are u serious man? zack ryder was booked like shit anyways. he needed john cena's help to defeat an INJURED mark henry. and also, john cena beat zack ryder CLEAN. hardly "putting over". where is zack ryder now, huh???? zack ryder is not even on tv lol.. hes not even on superstars.. i think he is going to be future endeavored this year, at this rate definitely

How is that a basis for your argument? Yeah, Cena would have been a mid-carder in the Attitude era because that era was focused WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less on in-ring action or story and instead focused more on sex and profanity. Since Stone Cold was down to Five Moves of Doom before he got his first WWE Championship run (not entirely his fault though, since he was on the receiving end of that botched piledriver from Owen Hart) and he doesn't have the storytelling talent to make any changes in character (you ever wonder why he was a midcarder through every other gimmick he did?), he would have been a mid-carder in any other era other than the Attitude era.

what the fuck? how was the atittude era less focused on storyliens? if anything it was WAYY more focused on storylines.. the main events were actually worth buying. they had massiave massive star power and sometimes like 5 people would interfere in the main event at the same time.. it was just amazing. even the crowds were amazing, right now wwe crowds are dead as a mother fucker. fucking PG kids.. if wwe switched back to tv-14, we would get better crowds, better storylines, AND better matches. its a win-win-win situation, why not take it?? because wwe has no logic. thats why.. do u think u know anything? have u even watched the attitude era??? go watch the main events and tell me that its not beter than the shitty product today.

But that's how wrestling works: sometimes somebody comes along at the right place, the right time, and magic happens. John Cena was that guy for this era, and the shows are better for it, since no other current superstar on the roster has got anywhere CLOSE to his level of popularity.

what the fuck? right time at the right time my ass.. back then they had batista, brock lesnar, randy orton, and triple h.. why did they choose to build up john cena when there are a shitload of other talented superstars? idk, but once again, this is wwe, who knows what is going on with their minds. anyways, its time for cena to stop being #1 face of the company.. because right now, there is cm punk. john cena has half boos and half cheers, u may think its a win-win situation, but its actually a WIN-LOSE situation. because that heat is not good, that is X PAC HEAT. x pac heat is, "get the fuck off my tv screen". REAL heat is "i wanna see this guy get his ass whooped"... well it doesnt matter anyways, we already saw cena's ass get whooped in matches and in segments, but we ALL know that he will overcome it. its a simple god damn formula that we alerady fucking know, why do u keep overdoing this bullshit?? cm punk is actually unpredictable. he is willing to put over other superstars and he is a breath of fresh air. evidence : he increased 7/5/13 smackdown ratings and he also increased buyrates and merchandise sales. its time for the #1 spot to be shared, JUST LIKE THE FUCKING ATTITUDE ERA, who had stone cold, the rock, undertaker, hhh, kurt angle sharing the #1 spot.

Hell, I asked my fiance yesterday (who knows NOTHING about wrestling) to list three pro-wrestlers. Her response: Hulk Hogan, The Rock, and John Cena.

lol, who the fuck cares what ur fiance thinks? do u expect me to believe u just because ONE random person knows who john cena is?? come on man. when is the last time she watched wrestling?

Nobody in wrestling gets to THAT level of popularity unless they have something special.

already said that cena is not as popular as u think he is.. half boos and half cheers. look at the raw ratings right now man. BARELY reaching 3.0 rating ever since john cena became the champion.. but before john cena was champion, ratings were doing just fine, they were averaged to 3.1-3.3 rating.

 

[newwaveknight]

i know how to fucking spell.

Your posts apparently don't agree with that statement.

you didnt say it, but u fucking implied it. do u know what imply means? the way u keep on defending john cena and his character, and u also said that his character is interesting.. u implied that u love john cena.. imply means to tell something without saying it directly. go read a dictionary

I didn't imply anything. By that same right, since you're bashing John Cena, and Mark Henry is feuding with Cena, you're implying that you want Mark Henry's penis.

he didnt put over sheamus, triple h did.. sheamus took out triple h for 11 months.. john cena made sheamus look like a pussy, triple h made sheamus look like a legitimate world class fighter.

Ummmm....Cena dropped the WWE Championship to Sheamus. I can find a YouTube clip if you'd like.

okay first of all, it was randy orton that put over the miz, not john cena.. the miz beat randy ortno....

Let me interrupt right there, and tell you that it's "Orton", not "ortno". I'm so glad you know how to spell.

.....3 times in a row.. while the miz needed the rock's help to beat john cena....

The Rock attacking Cena is what helped set up the Rock/Cena Wrestlemania match. Something like that takes time to build. While I hated the fact that they did Cena vs. Rock this year too, it showed GREAT foresight to spend a whole year setting up a match with two of the most famous people in pro-wrestling ever.

and then after that, cena beat the miz 3 times in a fucking row.. THREE fucking times in A ROW!!! losing 3 times in A ROW is not good.. at least try to keep the miz protected, but no, wwe isnt smart enough, right? where is the miz now? hes struggling to even get a match in a B show ppv..

I think that has more to do with creativity not really sure what direction to go with him. I also blame the CM Punk/Rock feud for derailing some of Miz's screen time. When they initially had him turn babyface against Punk, it was a pretty big deal to some folks because here we had one of the company's top heels going babyface. Then they decided to book Rock vs Punk and that took ALL the momentum out of Miz's face turn.

okay. zack ryder got HIMSELF over, john cena did not put him over.. john cena slowed his fucking momentum,even wwe slowed his momentum, hell zack ryder's own character slowed his momentum.. how did john cena put him over? by saying his catchphrase at the same time?? pff give me a fucking break.. so what if they shared a segment together, that counts as putting over?

The following conversation took place on November 18,2011 on DC radio station 106.7.

Chad Dukes: You were putting over Zack Ryder before Zack Ryder was cool…Just curious why that is; what did you see in Zack Ryder to say this is a guy I want ot make sure gets his spotlight on Raw?

John Cena: You're probably going to censor me out but I saw a set of balls. I saw a kid in an era in which everyone is afraid to show their talents. This kid was like 'You know what; I'm going down anyway so I'm going down swinging.' And I've been in that spot before. I've been told by everyone 'You're nothing; You're not going to be anything; Hey how you feel about doing this rap thing?' If I'm going down, I'm going down swinging. So I really, I saw a lot of that in him. I honestly, whether he's battle tested and ready for the next level, I'm not into that sort of speculation. I just like seeing a kid with a set of nuts who is just ready to throw it out on the line and risk it all, rather than 'Hey man I just don't want to rock the boat and I don't want to do anything that's going to draw attention to myself.' We're in the business of drawing attention to yourself. So when I see a kid like Zack Ryder- by the way you have to follow him on twitter @ZackRyder…- the kid is, he's just one of those guys that was willing to take a chance. And I admire that quality out of people. Its something that's not found enough in the WWE locker room.

Read more: http://www.WrestlingInc.com/wi/news/2011/1118/546780/john-cena/#ixzz2YcFV4qZ1

That sounds like helping someone get over to me. If you get public praise from the company's top star, that's sure to get more people watching you.

what the fuck? how was the atittude era less focused on storyliens?

Bro, it's "storylines", not "storyliens". I'm glad you claim to know how to spell though.

if anything it was WAYY more focused on storylines.. the main events were actually worth buying. they had massiave....

It's "massive", not "massiave". Bro, do you even spellcheck?

...massive star power and sometimes like 5 people would interfere in the main event at the same time.. it was just amazing.

Yeah, how many people interfere in a match DEFINITELY equate to rich storylines. So, if I book a match with eight people interfering, to you it would be the pro-wrestling equivalent to the Gone With The Wind level of storytelling. 12 people and you might jizz your shorts. Hey, if you didn't say it, then by your own argument tactic you're implying it.

even the crowds were amazing, right now wwe crowds are dead as a mother fucker. fucking PG kids.. if wwe switched back to tv-14, we would get better crowds, better storylines, AND better matches.

Why would extra sex and profanity improve the quality of match? If a shitty match is happening and somebody gives the middle finger, it's not a good match. It's a shitty match with a middle finger. And as for storylines? TNA is TV-14, and are you watching their storylines right now?

its a win-win-win situation, why not take it?? because wwe has no logic. thats why.. do u think u know anything? have u even watched the attitude era??? go watch the main events and tell me that its not beter than the shitty product today.

I did watch the Attitude era....in between commercial breaks for WCW. WCW was where the great technical classics were, where the established stars were, where the crazy high-flying luchador spots were, where the storylines were so great that you didn't DARE miss an episode (all you missed in the AE was beer, cursing, and sex, and I can get all that at my local strip club and in higher doses). Not to mention that the Attitude era started in '96, yet WCW was beating the WWE in ratings from '96 to '99, which was the bulk of the Attitude era. Once again, I can show the ratings reports if you'd like.

what the fuck? right time at the right time my ass.. back then they had batista, brock lesnar, randy orton, and triple h.. why did they choose to build up john cena when there are a shitload of other talented superstars?

Well, Batista, Lesnar, and Orton are talented workers, but you've got to admit that their promos don't even hold a candle to Cena's. Not to mention, they were trying to undo the damage that the Attitude era did to their young viewers demographic by actually pushing someone who the whole family could like. The only people who don't like Cena are indy marks and Attitude marks. Indy marks need to realize that storytelling is needed in the big leagues and Attitude marks need to become an hero.

idk, but once again, this is wwe, who knows what is going on with their minds. anyways, its time for cena to stop being #1 face of the company.. because right now, there is cm punk.

Right....let's take a guy who punched a fan, insults other fans to their faces, and has a restraining order from his own mother into the guy that the WWE sends out to reach to new fans.

john cena has half boos and half cheers, u may think its a win-win situation, but its actually a WIN-LOSE situation. because that heat is not good, that is X PAC HEAT. x pac heat is, "get the fuck off my tv screen". REAL heat is "i wanna see this guy get his ass whooped"... well it doesnt matter anyways, we already saw cena's ass get whooped in matches and in segments, but we ALL know that he will overcome it. its a simple god damn formula that we alerady fucking know, why do u keep overdoing this bullshit??

No heat is bad heat. If the crowd is making noise for you, then you're doing your job. If you get no noise or very little, THEN they're telling you to get the fuck out. And if Cena wins, he's "doing that boring, overcome-the-odds crap", but I guarantee if Punk "overcomes the odds" to get his WWE Title back, it's "a triumphant return of a great hero".

cm punk is actually unpredictable. he is willing to put over other superstars and he is a breath of fresh air. evidence : he increased 7/5/13 smackdown ratings and he also increased buyrates and merchandise sales. its time for the #1 spot to be shared, JUST LIKE THE FUCKING ATTITUDE ERA, who had stone cold, the rock, undertaker, hhh, kurt angle sharing the #1 spot.

And why do you think Stone Cold left? Aside from his neck injuries, it was obvious that the Attitude era was starting to die, and Stone Cold could ONLY be relevant in the Attitude era. The fun of pro-wrestling is watching it change. If the Attitude era was still around, you would be typing out hate message with bad spelling and punctuation about how stale Stone Cold was.

And CM Punk is so unpredictable that he repeated a high knee spot OVER AND OVER AND OVER again in his Summer Slam '11 match with Cena.

lol, who the fuck cares what ur fiance thinks? do u expect me to believe u just because ONE random person knows who john cena is?? come on man. when is the last time she watched wrestling?

Okay, I have a challenge for you:

1) Walk up to 20 random people who don't watch and have never watched wrestling in their lives.
2) Ask them to name five pro-wrestlers.
3) If Cena isn't in the answers of at least 50% of them, I will come to your house, make you coffee, give you a foot rub, and do a live re-enactment of your favorite movie.

And the WHOLE point (as you would have seen if you could read) is that SHE DOESN'T WATCH WRESTLING BUT EVEN SHE KNOWS WHO JOHN CENA IS!!!!!!

If you are so popular in wrestling that even people who don't watch it know who you are, you have a profound legacy.

already said that cena is not as popular as u think he is.. half boos and half cheers. look at the raw ratings right now man. BARELY reaching 3.0 rating ever since john cena became the champion.. but before john cena was champion, ratings were doing just fine, they were averaged to 3.1-3.3 rating.

Do you have anything showing what those ratings are?

And most people livestream the show anyway, so ratings aren't that reliable. Do you have merchandise sales figures, PPV buy rates to back up your claim?

So, one last question: How old are you? Do you really believe anything that you say or are you just another 13-year-old Punk mark who has decided to spend his summer talking to the grown-ups here. Seriously, I think the ONLY appropriate response to ANYTHING you say is, "Shhhhhhh. The grown-ups are talking."

 

[CmPunker]

Your posts apparently don't agree with that statement.

guess what? your name does not agree with that statement.. you don't use capitalization and you also do not use space bar.

I didn't imply anything. By that same right, since you're bashing John Cena, and Mark Henry is feuding with Cena, you're implying that you want Mark Henry's penis.

are you fucking kidding me? YOU FUCKING SAID JOHN CNA IS INTERESTING CHARACTER, HOW THE FUCK CAN U DENY THAT? U SAY HE IS INTERESTING, THAT MEANS YOU LIKE HIM! common sense..

Ummmm....Cena dropped the WWE Championship to Sheamus. I can find a YouTube clip if you'd like.

I fucking know that..... but so what if cena put over ONE person, who else he put over? huh?

Let me interrupt right there, and tell you that it's "Orton", not "ortno". I'm so glad you know how to spell.

thank u for stating the obvious.. i know how to spell orton

The Rock attacking Cena is what helped set up the Rock/Cena Wrestlemania match. Something like that takes time to build. While I hated the fact that they did Cena vs. Rock this year too, it showed GREAT foresight to spend a whole year setting up a match with two of the most famous people in pro-wrestling ever.

great foresight my ass.. how the fuck is that great foresight? what was so creative about that decision. u need more than great foresight to make a good storyline. u need something to freshen it up, like intensity, blood, fuckign weapons.. come on man. i cant believe they put all their fucking effort into a stupid feud like cena vs the rock. why the fuck did they put all their effort into it? so when we ask for wwe to plan ahead, we dont mean plan ahead for STUPID feuds, we mean plan ahead for GOOD feuds. god damn, its like you do one thing but you lose the other.. a metaphor is that increase speed, but you lose control over your speed..

I think that has more to do with creativity not really sure what direction to go with him. I also blame the CM Punk/Rock feud for derailing some of Miz's screen time. When they initially had him turn babyface against Punk, it was a pretty big deal to some folks because here we had one of the company's top heels going babyface. Then they decided to book Rock vs Punk and that took ALL the momentum out of Miz's face turn.

what the fuck? it was john cena that hurt the miz's momentum.. the miz beat john cena once with HELP, then cena beat him clean 3 times in a row. is that worth it? lol.. seriously? it was practically a 2v1 match, alex riley AND miz vs john cena at over the limit. and guess what? cena ST ILL WON, way to make your opponents credible, way to make them take seriously.. the miz face turn was never a big deal anyways.. he isnt even that over.

The following conversation took place on November 18,2011 on DC radio station 106.7.

Chad Dukes: You were putting over Zack Ryder before Zack Ryder was cool…Just curious why that is; what did you see in Zack Ryder to say this is a guy I want ot make sure gets his spotlight on Raw?

John Cena: You're probably going to censor me out but I saw a set of balls. I saw a kid in an era in which everyone is afraid to show their talents. This kid was like 'You know what; I'm going down anyway so I'm going down swinging.' And I've been in that spot before. I've been told by everyone 'You're nothing; You're not going to be anything; Hey how you feel about doing this rap thing?' If I'm going down, I'm going down swinging. So I really, I saw a lot of that in him. I honestly, whether he's battle tested and ready for the next level, I'm not into that sort of speculation. I just like seeing a kid with a set of nuts who is just ready to throw it out on the line and risk it all, rather than 'Hey man I just don't want to rock the boat and I don't want to do anything that's going to draw attention to myself.' We're in the business of drawing attention to yourself. So when I see a kid like Zack Ryder- by the way you have to follow him on twitter @ZackRyder…- the kid is, he's just one of those guys that was willing to take a chance. And I admire that quality out of people. Its something that's not found enough in the WWE locker room.

Read more: http://www.WrestlingInc.com/wi/news/2011/1118/546780/john-cena/#ixzz2YcFV4qZ1

That sounds like helping someone get over to me. If you get public praise from the company's top star, that's sure to get more people watching you.

yeah, and again, where is zack ryder right now? strugglign to even make it on tv.. lol. yeah cena definitely put him over. *sarcasm*

Bro, it's "storylines", not "storyliens". I'm glad you claim to know how to spell though.

thank u for nitpicking..

It's "massive", not "massiave". Bro, do you even spellcheck?

no, but do u know how to research?

Yeah, how many people interfere in a match DEFINITELY equate to rich storylines. So, if I book a match with eight people interfering, to you it would be the pro-wrestling equivalent to the Gone With The Wind level of storytelling. 12 people and you might jizz your shorts. Hey, if you didn't say it, then by your own argument tactic you're implying it.

good storylines also count as good commentators, good matches, good promos, intensity, in depth characters, realer than life characters, etc. dont twist my words man.

Why would extra sex and profanity improve the quality of match? If a shitty match is happening and somebody gives the middle finger, it's not a good match. It's a shitty match with a middle finger. And as for storylines? TNA is TV-14, and are you watching their storylines right now?

a middle finger is a good match because it gives in ring psychology.. its called telling a story in the ring, stirring up the crowd, increasing intensity, and good story telling.

I did watch the Attitude era....in between commercial breaks for WCW. WCW was where the great technical classics were, where the established stars were, where the crazy high-flying luchador spots were, where the storylines were so great that you didn't DARE miss an episode (all you missed in the AE was beer, cursing, and sex, and I can get all that at my local strip club and in higher doses). Not to mention that the Attitude era started in '96, yet WCW was beating the WWE in ratings from '96 to '99, which was the bulk of the Attitude era. Once again, I can show the ratings reports if you'd like.

where is wcw now? dead.

Well, Batista, Lesnar, and Orton are talented workers, but you've got to admit that their promos don't even hold a candle to Cena's. Not to mention, they were trying to undo the damage that the Attitude era did to their young viewers demographic by actually pushing someone who the whole family could like. The only people who don't like Cena are indy marks and Attitude marks. Indy marks need to realize that storytelling is needed in the big leagues and Attitude marks need to become an hero.

cena's promos suck ass... orton as a heel was golden promos. lesnar is not good for his promos, but he has lots of charisma and good in ring skills, batista is good on the mmic and has shitload of charisma, batista is one of most talented people i have ever seen. wtf.. whole family likes badass characters. john cena only fans are women and children.. lol. all old males hate him because he is cheesy and corny as fuck. we did not pay to see a fucking nickelodeon show. that is why cena gets half boos and half cheers. because half want him to get off tv, u see he is a CURSE to the ratings.

Right....let's take a guy who punched a fan, insults other fans to their faces, and has a restraining order from his own mother into the guy that the WWE sends out to reach to new fans.

cm punk has done some media for the wwe, why cant he take the #1 spot? his mother was fucking crazy, she kept on asking for money. and by the way, the fan punched cm punk FIRST, cm punk was just retaliating. and by the way, a lot of fans are assholes, so if cm punk insults them, they deserve it.

No heat is bad heat. If the crowd is making noise for you, then you're doing your job. If you get no noise or very little, THEN they're telling you to get the fuck out. And if Cena wins, he's "doing that boring, overcome-the-odds crap", but I guarantee if Punk "overcomes the odds" to get his WWE Title back, it's "a triumphant return of a great hero".

depends on the type of fucking heat. do u consider x pac heat and heath slater heat good? cuz that is what kind of heat john cena is getting.. its not a heat that makes ratings or buyrates, its a heat the drives away ratings and buyrates. because cm punk is a breath of fresh air, he had more character change in 5 weeks than cena did in 8 years.. and cena had a stale characfter for 8 years. lol.

And why do you think Stone Cold left? Aside from his neck injuries, it was obvious that the Attitude era was starting to die, and Stone Cold could ONLY be relevant in the Attitude era. The fun of pro-wrestling is watching it change. If the Attitude era was still around, you would be typing out hate message with bad spelling and punctuation about how stale Stone Cold was.

u answer ur own question.. u saiid he have neck injuries.. and im sure u would know what his positino would be lol? *sarcasm*

And CM Punk is so unpredictable that he repeated a high knee spot OVER AND OVER AND OVER again in his Summer Slam '11 match with Cena.

that was not even predictable.. i didnt know cm punk would use that move, but it was still good story telling. i know that punk isnt that good in the ring, and i admit it even though i am cm punk fan. but cena is e ven worse in the ring. okay? well he is not that bad, he just holds back on his skills on PURPOSE.. even worse because he does not have passion for the business. if he have passion, he would put in good matches week in and week out. instead, he only have good matches on important ppvs? WHY? WHY DONT U HAVE GOOD MATCHES EVERY WEEK????? not just select ppvs..

look okay, i rather have PASSIONATE person, but not smart person to work for me rather than have UNPASSIONATE person who is smart..

Okay, I have a challenge for you:

1) Walk up to 20 random people who don't watch and have never watched wrestling in their lives.
2) Ask them to name five pro-wrestlers.
3) If Cena isn't in the answers of at least 50% of them, I will come to your house, make you coffee, give you a foot rub, and do a live re-enactment of your favorite movie.

And the WHOLE point (as you would have seen if you could read) is that SHE DOESN'T WATCH WRESTLING BUT EVEN SHE KNOWS WHO JOHN CENA IS!!!!!!

If you are so popular in wrestling that even people who don't watch it know who you are, you have a profound legacy.

no.. the profound legacy is for people like hulk hogan, the rock, stone cold, shawn michaels, and triple h. john cena is in an empty era, why would he be in same league as the legends? john cena is SHIT, why would he be considered with the legends?? THAT IS DISGRACE to the fucking hall of fame.

Do you have anything showing what those ratings are?

why dont u research it yourself? do not be lazy

And most people livestream the show anyway, so ratings aren't that reliable. Do you have merchandise sales figures, PPV buy rates to back up your claim?

Lol are u fucking serious? people livestream ppv more than they livestream fucking raw.. because raw is free, everyone can see it, while ppvs are not free.

So, one last question: How old are you? Do you really believe anything that you say or are you just another 13-year-old Punk mark who has decided to spend his summer talking to the grown-ups here. Seriously, I think the ONLY appropriate response to ANYTHING you say is, "Shhhhhhh. The grown-ups are talking."

i am smarter than u think man.. do not be ignorant. just because i am not grown up does not mean that i am "stupid".. u know there are lots of smart people that are under 20?

 

[newwaveknight]

i am smarter than u think man.. do not be ignorant. just because i am not grown up does not mean that i am "stupid".. u know there are lots of smart people that are under 20?

Yep, I guessed it. You're still a kid!

The only people who mark this hard for Punk and hate Cena this much are kids.

So, let me ask you a question: If you're not even 18 yet, how do you truly know about the Attitude era? Because you watched the highlights DVDs? They only talk about the high points of the Attitude era. They leave out the stupid part. Did you know that they had a porn star who entered a match with the stipulation of his penis getting chopped off? There's no WAY that would happen on live TV and we all knew it. Did you know Mark Henry "knocked up" Mae Young, only to have her give birth to a glove?

How great does the Attitude era look now?

 

[CmPunker]

Yep, I guessed it. You're still a kid!

The only people who mark this hard for Punk and hate Cena this much are kids.

So, let me ask you a question: If you're not even 18 yet, how do you truly know about the Attitude era? Because you watched the highlights DVDs? They only talk about the high points of the Attitude era. They leave out the stupid part. Did you know that they had a porn star who entered a match with the stipulation of his penis getting chopped off? There's no WAY that would happen on live TV and we all knew it. Did you know Mark Henry "knocked up" Mae Young, only to have her give birth to a glove?

How great does the Attitude era look now?

what the fuck? isnt it vice versa? kids are people who love john cena and dont know shit about business. they also hate all heels and llove all faces. i do not fit in that category.

i know about the atittude era from the fucking youtube videos.. they had amazing matches, star power, ratings, larger than life characters, promos, everything was fucking better..

yeah and you are probably making up bullshit now cuz u want me to lure u in this PG bullshit..

can u just face it? attitude era has fucking good ratings. PG has shit ratings

 

[newwaveknight]

what the fuck? isnt it vice versa? kids are people who love john cena and dont know shit about business. they also hate all heels and llove all faces. i do not fit in that category.

Yeah, but by my standards, teen are kids. You are a teenager, I'm guessing no older than 15, who thinks it makes him sound edgy and "ex-treme-uh" to bash a guy who kids like, because that means you're no longer a kid. Well, I've got news for you, when you get on a site like this and post the stuff you do, we all know that you're still in your adolescence.

i know about the atittude era from the fucking youtube videos.. they had amazing matches, star power, ratings, larger than life characters, promos, everything was fucking better..

They had Stone Cold, The Rock, Mick Foley, Undertaker, HBK and HHH. Other than that, the mid-card was rather forgettable until

1) Benoit (who, by the way, had great matches without having to resort to excessive profanity because he was a god of technical wrestling), Jericho, Malenko, Eddie Gurrero, and Perry Saturn all came over and GREATLY improved the in-ring action.

2) Some of the Attitude mid-card like Edge and the Hardy Boys (who were still good back then) started getting over in the 00's.

yeah and you are probably making up bullshit now cuz u want me to lure u in this PG bullshit..

No, son. I'm trying to educate you.

Here's Mae Young giving birth to a hand:

http://www.wwe.com/videos/mae-young-goes-into-labor-raw-february-28-2000-26025420

This details the Val Venis penis-chopping angle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai_En_Tai#Kaientai_.28WWF.29

can u just face it? attitude era has fucking good ratings. PG has shit ratings

What if the PG era had better ratings?

I think we're all going to tolerate you for another month. By then, school will be starting back and your parents probably won't let you spend too much time on WrestleZone, at least past your bedtime anyway.

 

[CmPunker]

Yeah, but by my standards, teen are kids. You are a teenager, I'm guessing no older than 15, who thinks it makes him sound edgy and "ex-treme-uh" to bash a guy who kids like, because that means you're no longer a kid. Well, I've got news for you, when you get on a site like this and post the stuff you do, we all know that you're still in your adolescence.

Teens are teenagers. kids are fucking kids.. teens are 13-19 years old. kids are 12 and younger.. big fucking difference. teens are more mature.

and btw, i am not bashing cena to be cool or anything. i am bashing him because he is fucking selfish and boring as fuck. his character is so stale.. how can u not see the flaws in his character?

They had Stone Cold, The Rock, Mick Foley, Undertaker, HBK and HHH. Other than that, the mid-card was rather forgettable until

1) Benoit (who, by the way, had great matches without having to resort to excessive profanity because he was a god of technical wrestling), Jericho, Malenko, Eddie Gurrero, and Perry Saturn all came over and GREATLY improved the in-ring action.

2) Some of the Attitude mid-card like Edge and the Hardy Boys (who were still good back then) started getting over in the 00's.

They had all those main eventers sharing the main event spotlight. sharing the #1 spot. part of the reason why the AE was so successful.. why do u think ratings are shit nowadays? because nobody is close to cena's level. nobody kisses ass like john cena does. before, it wasnt based on ass kissing, however things have changed so much right now. things are not determined by talent, theyre determined by ass kissing john cena.. fucking cena. REALLY needs to share his #1 spot.. he cant take it up forever. sharing the #1 spot is the key to success. if u have the same person for 8 years in the #1 spot, ratings are going to decline. right now, they are sturggling to get 3.0 rating. why do u think? beacuse people are sick of cena.

No, son. I'm trying to educate you.

Here's Mae Young giving birth to a hand:

http://www.wwe.com/videos/mae-young-goes-into-labor-raw-february-28-2000-26025420

This details the Val Venis penis-chopping angle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai_En_Tai#Kaientai_.28WWF.29

dude.. so what if the attidude era had two weird segments? are u really going to judge an whole era over 2 segments? some people may have liked it to be honest. i dont think they are that bad. remember celebrities? fucking celebrities take up more time than the hard working mid carders..

What if the PG era had better ratings?

BUT IT DOESNT? DOES IT? Lol are u fucking ******ed? ratings in attitude era were like 6.0.. right now they are averaged to 2.9.. where do u get ur facts?

I think we're all going to tolerate you for another month. By then, school will be starting back and your parents probably won't let you spend too much time on WrestleZone, at least past your bedtime anyway.

whatever man. when i go back to school, i will be back to playing on my xbox 360. i dont really care about school.

 

[newwaveknight]

Teens are teenagers. kids are fucking kids.. teens are 13-19 years old. kids are 12 and younger.. big fucking difference. teens are more mature.

and btw, i am not bashing cena to be cool or anything. i am bashing him because he is fucking selfish and boring as fuck. his character is so stale.. how can u not see the flaws in his character?

So, how is he selfish? By being well-liked backstage, helping out with charities, and supporting our troops? And other superstars have even said that he does all of that because he actually is a pretty cool guy backstage and off-camera as well.

They had all those main eventers sharing the main event spotlight. sharing the #1 spot. part of the reason why the AE was so successful.. why do u think ratings are shit nowadays?

Those guys did share the main-event spotlight....only with each other though. How many people did Stone Cold help get over? He feuded with the Rock, but the Rock had so much charisma that everyone knew he would be a star since day one.

because nobody is close to cena's level. nobody kisses ass like john cena does. before, it wasnt based on ass kissing, however things have changed so much right now.

Dude, getting ahead in the WWE has ALWAYS been about ass-kissing. How do you think Shawn Michaels and Triple H initially got over? They won Vince's favor backstage. Then others kissed their asses, like Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, and Sean Waltman. Why do you think they were called "The Klique" backstage?

things are not determined by talent, theyre determined by ass kissing john cena.. fucking cena. REALLY needs to share his #1 spot.. he cant take it up forever. sharing the #1 spot is the key to success. if u have the same person for 8 years in the #1 spot, ratings are going to decline. right now, they are sturggling to get 3.0 rating. why do u think? beacuse people are sick of cena.

Last time I checked, his merchandise was still the top-selling in the company. I don't have figures yet on this year's sales, but I will post them when I do. Maybe that will clarify this "everybody hates Cena" claim.

dude.. so what if the attidude era had two weird segments? are u really going to judge an whole era over 2 segments? some people may have liked it to be honest. i dont think they are that bad. remember celebrities? fucking celebrities take up more time than the hard working mid carders..

Only two? Here's another bit of Attitude-era crap for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_Cool

Yes, this tag team really existed. Yes, one guy used the breakdance move known as "The Worm" to finish matches. I can find some more if you like.

BUT IT DOESNT? DOES IT? Lol are u fucking ******ed? ratings in attitude era were like 6.0.. right now they are averaged to 2.9.. where do u get ur facts?

1) I'm being called ******ed by a kid who should still be in elementary school so he can learn how to spell and form complete sentence?

2) The Attitude era didn't get a 6.0 rating until 1999, which was towards the decline of the era. Don't believe me? Here's my source:

http://www.2xzone.com/ratings/rawhistory.shtml

Also, keep into account: ratings were high not because the AE was hot, but because pro-wrestling in general was a hot commodity. I'll repeat myself: WCW could sell out a Nitro arena before they even announced who was going to be on the show.

whatever man. when i go back to school, i will be back to playing on my xbox 360. i dont really care about school.

Your illiteracy and failure to make ANY compelling arguments is proof that you don't take your education THAT seriously. If you will be on your 360 during the school year and off of my beloved WrestleZone, then I can't wait for the school year to start. That way we can eliminate (and I loathe to use this term, but it applies) the **PREJUDICED REMARK REMOVED** and the grown-ups can go back to talking about the shows.

 

[CmPunker]

So, how is he selfish? By being well-liked backstage, helping out with charities, and supporting our troops? And other superstars have even said that he does all of that because he actually is a pretty cool guy backstage and off-camera as well.

He is selfish because he refuses to put people over.. do you realize that all those things he did, he shows them to the whole world? how does that prove a good person. a good person would be somebody who keeps his accomplishments to himself. u never know, he could be using those facts to brag about himself.. like he is saying, "look at me, im helping charity, please cheer me!" its an act of desperation, not an act of being nice.

Those guys did share the main-event spotlight....only with each other though. How many people did Stone Cold help get over? He feuded with the Rock, but the Rock had so much charisma that everyone knew he would be a star since day one.

stone cold helped the rock, triple h, and hbk get over.. he was also a badass character and he took people as legit threats.

Dude, getting ahead in the WWE has ALWAYS been about ass-kissing. How do you think Shawn Michaels and Triple H initially got over? They won Vince's favor backstage. Then others kissed their asses, like Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, and Sean Waltman. Why do you think they were called "The Klique" backstage?

no it hasnt.. stone cold and vincem cmahon were real life enemies, and look at stone cold. he was a top player..

Last time I checked, his merchandise was still the top-selling in the company. I don't have figures yet on this year's sales, but I will post them when I do. Maybe that will clarify this "everybody hates Cena" claim.

last time i fucking checked, cm punk surpassed cena's merchandise sales.

Only two? Here's another bit of Attitude-era crap for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_Cool

u are missing the point.. the main events of the AE overshadowed these comedy skits. and btw, at least these comedy skits were better than PG shit.

Yes, this tag team really existed. Yes, one guy used the breakdance move known as "The Worm" to finish matches. I can find some more if you like.

who cares? at least they had a good tag team division.

1) I'm being called ******ed by a kid who should still be in elementary school so he can learn how to spell and form complete sentence?

what the fuck is wrong with u... i can spell and i know how to form a complete sentence

2) The Attitude era didn't get a 6.0 rating until 1999, which was towards the decline of the era. Don't believe me? Here's my source:

http://www.2xzone.com/ratings/rawhistory.shtml

that is a fishy website.. rather not take the risk of getting a virus..

Also, keep into account: ratings were high not because the AE was hot, but because pro-wrestling in general was a hot commodity. I'll repeat myself: WCW could sell out a Nitro arena before they even announced who was going to be on the show.

ratings were high because the AE had good storylines, not because wrestling was hot. why do u think wresting isnt hot today? because of the shitty product.. PG rating, john cena, etc, shitty booking

Your illiteracy and failure to make ANY compelling arguments is proof that you don't take your education THAT seriously. If you will be on your 360 during the school year and off of my beloved WrestleZone, then I can't wait for the school year to start. That way we can eliminate (and I loathe to use this term, but it applies) the **PREJUDICED REMARK REMOVED** and the grown-ups can go back to talking about the shows.

True, i dont take my education seriously and i dont really give a fuck, but thats noone of your fuckng business anyways. i can do whatever i want with my life.

 

[newwaveknight]

He is selfish because he refuses to put people over.. do you realize that all those things he did, he shows them to the whole world? how does that prove a good person. a good person would be somebody who keeps his accomplishments to himself. u never know, he could be using those facts to brag about himself.. like he is saying, "look at me, im helping charity, please cheer me!" its an act of desperation, not an act of being nice.

Actually, I think that's more of Vince's doing than Cena's. Vince is ALL about getting the WWE name out there.

stone cold helped the rock, triple h, and hbk get over.. he was also a badass character and he took people as legit threats.

The Rock got over because he had so much damn charisma. And are you serious about Stone Cold putting over Triple H and HBK? Son, HBK was a main guy in the WWE while Austin was playing Goldilocks as Stunning Steve Austin in WCW.

And HBK actually dropped the belt to Austin for Austin's first WWE Championship run. Here, I'll show you:

http://www.wwe.com/videos/stone-col...estlemania-14-wwe-championship-match-26101074

no it hasnt.. stone cold and vincem cmahon were real life enemies, and look at stone cold. he was a top player..

I wouldn't go so far as to call them enemies. If that were the case, Vinnie Mac wouldn't have cared about Austin's popularity after King of the Ring 1996. Maybe they disliked each other a little, but Vince doesn't really hate anyone who makes him a shitload of money.

last time i fucking checked, cm punk surpassed cena's merchandise sales.

Once again, I'll get some figures and we'll come back to that.

u are missing the point.. the main events of the AE overshadowed these comedy skits. and btw, at least these comedy skits were better than PG shit.

Come on, a woman giving birth to a hand is better than a PG-era? I can't believe I have to actually tell somebody that it's not.

who cares? at least they had a good tag team division.

I will actually give you credit for that. In my opinion, the Attitude era DID have a better tag team division, as you had teams that were established teams for a while. You can't put together a metric shit ton of new teams, make them all face each other without facing any established teams, then disband those same teams a year later.

what the fuck is wrong with u... i can spell and i know how to form a complete sentence

Then type a sentence with proper spelling, punctuation, and capitalization and I will revoke my statement.

that is a fishy website.. rather not take the risk of getting a virus..

Funny, it seems that anytime I ask you for your sources to back up your claims, I should do it myself and not be lazy, but when I give you links to the sources where I got my facts from, all of a sudden you don't trust web sites. Hmmmmmm.......

ratings were high because the AE had good storylines, not because wrestling was hot. why do u think wresting isnt hot today? because of the shitty product.. PG rating, john cena, etc, shitty booking

But if the Pg rating is what's killing the WWE and TV-14 is the way to go, why isn't TNA beating Raw of SmackDown in the ratings? You keep dodging that question, why don't you just answer it.

True, i dont take my education seriously and i dont really give a fuck, but thats noone of your fuckng business anyways. i can do whatever i want with my life.

It is our business, since your illiteracy and lack of research abilities is poisoning my beloved WrestleZone. You can definitely do whatever you want with your life, but I recommend you stay in school.

And you still haven't answered how old you are. We're all guessing you're either 12 or 13. There's no way you could be older than 15.

 

[Nate DaMac]

i am smarter than u think man.. do not be ignorant. just because i am not grown up does not mean that i am "stupid".. u know there are lots of smart people that are under 20?

The fact that you're not "grown up" doesn't mean you're stupid. However, it does mean that all this praise for the Attitude Era is nonsense since you were, at a minimum, in fucking Elementary School while it as happening. You know the Attitude Era from clips and DVD comps, you have no idea the amount of garbage that took place during those years.

It faded just like all of the other trash TV shows from the 90s. At one time Jerry Springer was one of the hottest shows on television. Now, even though it still features the same garbage it always has, it's faded into obscurity that only white trash moms watch.

 

[newwaveknight]

The fact that you're not "grown up" doesn't mean you're stupid. However, it does mean that all this praise for the Attitude Era is nonsense since you were, at a minimum, in fucking Elementary School while it as happening. You know the Attitude Era from clips and DVD comps, you have no idea the amount of garbage that took place during those years.

It faded just like all of the other trash TV shows from the 90s. At one time Jerry Springer was one of the hottest shows on television. Now, even though it still features the same garbage it always has, it's faded into obscurity that only white trash moms watch.

Read what <3ShieldGirl<3 is saying, CmPunker. Then ask yourself this: If the Attitude era was so great, why isn't the WWE still doing it? You can keep saying that "Vince is so dumb", but the man turned himself from someone who worked for a regional promotion called WWWF in the Connecticut/MSG area who got a job because daddy was his boss to making pro-wrestling a national industry ad made himself a billionaire. Somehow that doesn't spell out "dumb" to me. He knew that the Attitude era had run it's course and moved on to something new.

Vince McMahon is about the bottom line: how will this affect profits and the company. If the Attitude era was still making a metric fuck ton of money, it would still be going on, now wouldn't it?

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

He is selfish because he refuses to put people over..

Oh for the love of all things holy and sane not this again. Alright, lets do this quickly. Cena has put over in what most people would call the "traditional" sense (I.E. making opponents that are of a lesser position than him look fantastic/credible whilst losing) Edge, Rob Van Dam, Kevin bloody Federline, Sheamus, Wade Barrett (and the rest of the original Nexus), The Miz, CM Punk, Alberto Del Rio, Tensai for pity's sake, Johnny effing Ace, Dolph Ziggler, The Shield and most recently Curtis Axel.

This list doesn't include a list of already credible guys who Cena lost to in his period as a main eventer such as Batista, JBL, Triple H, The Rock, Randy Orton, Shawn Michaels etc... And it doens't include the variety of opponeents who he did eventually beat that he made look like they could hang with him including Umaga, Bobby Lashley, The Great Khali, Ryback and others. That's not a very short list and quite frankly, Cena's done more putting of people over than any other lead face of the company ever. More than Hogan, more than Austin, more that Triple H and more than anyone else I can think of.

 

[CmPunker]

Oh for the love of all things holy and sane not this again. Alright, lets do this quickly.

You think you are so correct when youre not.. it really baffles me.

Cena has put over in what most people would call the "traditional" sense (I.E. making opponents that are of a lesser position than him look fantastic/credible whilst losing)

No.. how did cena make them look good while losing? by getting beat up? so getting beat up means you put someone over? Is that seriously how you are going to go with your fucking logic? Makes no sense at all man. getting beat up does not mean u put someone over.. by that logic, cody rhodes was put over by big show because cody rhodes slapped big show..

Edge, Rob Van Dam, Kevin bloody Federline, Sheamus, Wade Barrett (and the rest of the original Nexus), The Miz, CM Punk, Alberto Del Rio, Tensai for pity's sake, Johnny effing Ace, Dolph Ziggler, The Shield and most recently Curtis Axel.

Nope. you are only correct on half of them..

Edge - was already a main eventer before he feuded with cena. also, cena defeated him more times than edge defeated cena.. and edge never got a clean victory over cena, whilst all of cena's victories against edge were clean.. remember that edge was ALREADY a main eventer before he faced cena. and also do u remember when edge lost the title on his 1st ever title defense? that was embarassing as fuck..

RVD - somewhat, to an extent.. but then look what happened AFTER he got put over, he lost both his titles after 1 month of holding it.. and then he was released.

Kevin Federline - to an extent, yes. i will admit he did put over kevin federline. a celebrity beating a top star, with 4 peoples help, is somewhat impressive. *sarcasm*

sheamus - john cena made sheamus look like a fucking pussy. every fucking time sheamus ran away like a coward. but guess what? when sheamus feuded with hhh, he automatically turned into a legitimate badass.. but when he feuded with cena, he was a pussy.

wade barrett and nexus - lol what.. are u fucking kidding me. cena did put them over, i will admit it. but they were only being put over to get fed to cena once again.. remember tlc 2011? it was cena vs wade barrett.. guess what? cena took out the entire nexus by himself.. for one man to defeat 6-7 people by himself.. that is absolutely embarassing and humiliating. also, did i mention where is wade barrett and the rest of nexus now? ryback was recently fed to cena, justin gabriel will be future endeavored, heath slater is going nowhere, wade barrett is a mid carder STILL, michael tarvar was released, david otunga is nowhere to be seen.. u get my point, nobody was successful in nexus. and DO NOT say daniel bryan, because daniel bryan was fired from his 1st week from nexus.

The miz - he put him over, then he was fed, again. getting put over, then getting fed, does not COUNT as putting over.. it counts as FEEDING. feeding is when u are built up and defeat a superstar ONE TIME and then the opponent defeats u three fucking times in a row CLEAN. does feeding count as putting over? dont think so.. the miz needed the rock to beat him at WM. after that, cena beat miz clean 3 times in a fuckin row, and caused the miz to get lost in the shuffle. where is the miz now? still hasnt held another championship and in the mid card. hes struggling to even make it on the card, he is basically a heel version of kofi kingston.

cm punk - cm punk got himself over, first of all. he had his infamous shoot. and 2 of his victories, MITB and summerslam 2011, were flukes. MITB 2011 - it was not clean becaus johnny laurinitis fucking interfered.. summerslam 2011 - triple h didnt see john cena's foot. its the equivalent of someone kicking out, but the ref not seeing it. its just NOT a proper finish.. and also, cena got all his wins back, because wwe loves to kiss cena's ass so much. look.. on the road to wrestlemania, cena beat punk CLEAN.. jesus christ, way to make punk look credible to face the undertaker. im sure clean losses are SOOO good for credibility.

fucking Alberto Del rio- first of all, both are spoiled brats, i could care less what happens to them.. but alberto del rio only got 1 victory over john cena, with the help of 3 other people (ricardo, r truth, the miz).. wow, way to build up your champion.. anyways john cena got his fucking wins back, TWICE. john cena beat alberto del rio a few months later, on a Santa claus christmas episode, and then he baet him just 2 weeks ago on row, very recently.. so its clear that john cena got his wins back, because nobody will EVER get the last laugh against john super fucking cena.

Tensai - WHAT??? are u seriuos, tensai beat cena ONE time, and u call that putting over? wow.. come on man. first of all, tensai was fed to cena, do i have to restate it? feeding is when u get a decent victory ONC and then u lose the rest of the matches. tensai lost about 2 other matches to john cena CLEAN. and where is he now? hes in a comedy tag team, which has no direction..

Johnny ace - okay, so what, he put him over ONE time, then he was fed again.. the next ppv, on no way out, it was cena vs big show, cena won, so laurinitis was fired.. so where is johnny ace now? nowhere to be seen.. again, FEEDING is not PUTTING OVER.. come on now, u know better than that.. cena didnt even take him seriously as a threat. all he fucking did was smile it off, even with a broken fucking elbow, he still kept smiling like a jackass loser. and now i am going to tell wwe how wrnog it is to have cena end johnny's career. WHY THE FUCK, didn't u fucking get a NEW star to get that rub.. whoever ends his career will have a massive rub and INSTANTLY get over. since johny' was such a huge heat magnet, it would be soo soo fucking beneficial.. but noooo, instead we give it to john cena, who ALREADY peaked. he cant go any higher than he already has.. people wont like him any more than they already do, and people wont suddenly change their decisions from hating him to liking him.. what if u fucking had cm punk to end johnny ace's career? because cm punk can actually benefit form it. hes the fucking future of the company and he needs to reach his peak. i dontb elieve he reached his peak yet. he still hasnt beaten a TOP TOP star (undertaker, hhh, the rock).. cm punk still needs that top win to solidify his career and cement his fucking legacy and become a LEGEND.. well i guess theyre going to give Cena EVERYTHING right? like every single person will be fed to cena, sounds fair, right?

the shield - no.. i would say that the shield were put over by john cena for 1 week. and then embarassed. not FED, but embarassed. u know why? because their victory against john cena was NOT clean. cena had an injured fucking ankle. do u know what clean wins? clean means fair and square, no bullshit, no faulty referees, no injuries, none of that bullshit.. clean means FAIR AND SQUARE, which means both players are on equal playing level.. if u think clean ONLY means playing by the rules, then going by that logic, kevin federline just beat cena clean, but he didnt.. clean is more than just going by the rules, clean is FAIR AND SQUARE. anyways the next fucking week on raw, the shield lost to cena via DQ. imo it was embarassing. 3 vs 1.. shield vs cena.. i know it was a DQ win, but the way they fucking set it up. it made it LOOK like ambrose was going to tap out.. it was just so so embarassing if u look at it on paper and from a casual fan's perspective.

curtis axel - a countout win with help from ryback counts as putting over, seriously? where is curtis axel now? still in the mid card.

dolph ziggler - one of the worst examples ever. in fact, i think cena ruined ziggler's momentum. seriously.. dolph ziggler got ONE fuckign win over cena, whoppy whoppy wo, who the fuc cares.. anyways, here is what i am going to say. dolph ziggler was FED to john cena.. fuckking fed to john cena.
his fucking TLC win was needed help from his girlfriend AJ LEE. and aj lee's heel turn OVERFUCKING SHADOWED ziggler's win. the announcers didnt even hype the fuck out of zigglers win, which makes his win even more forgettable. after that, cena no sold the loss and no sold aj cheating on him. cena just smiled it off like it was nothing. then a few weeks later, cena battled ziggler in a series of matches, in which cena won them ALL. ziggler threw every fucking thing he got on cena, aj lee, big e langstno, interference, chairs, etc, but super cena overcame it all... cena kicked out of all of ziggler's finishers, while cena finished him off.. god damn, ziggler threw everything he had on cena, and still failed. isnt that embarassing? note that the casuals dont care about just ONE win, they clearly didnt make ziggler and cena equal to each other. what a one sided feud.

This list doesn't include a list of already credible guys who Cena lost to in his period as a main eventer such as Batista, JBL, Triple H, The Rock, Randy Orton, Shawn Michaels etc... And it doens't include the variety of opponeents who he did eventually beat that he made look like they could hang with him including Umaga, Bobby Lashley, The Great Khali, Ryback and others. That's not a very short list and quite frankly, Cena's done more putting of people over than any other lead face of the company ever. More than Hogan, more than Austin, more that Triple H and more than anyone else I can think of.

randy orton was put over by triple h, not john cena.. john cena was injured by the time randy orton was going after him. it was triple h that jobbed to randy, i give credit to even the egotistical triple h, making cena even MORE egotistical. if an egotistical HHH puts over randy isntead of cena, that is saying A LOT.

Jbl, the rock, triple h, and shawn michaels were all aready main eventers, are u fucking serious? its like saying edge put over undertaker.. because they were ALREADY main eventors when they feuded.

umaga was fed to cena.. umaga had an undefeated streak, then he lost to john cena, it was an obvious "dragon slaying" and "overcoming all odds" match.. so obvious and predictable, definitely no favors for umaga..

i admit that bobby lashley was still strong in defeat because he was just a mid carder and he was booked like an equal. so ill give cena credit for that.

khali - not really, he was fed to john cena.. one win, and 3 losses.. doesnt scream "equal" another obvious dragon slayingm atch.

ryback - not really. not a single victory over cena. he was turned heel out of nowhere, and then cena didnt take him as a legitimate threat. in addition, ryback looked like a fucking chicken. he kept running away from john cena. for gods sake, a man with that physique shouldnt be acting like a fucking chicken.. fucking 280 pounds, how can u run away like that?? also was fed to cena, where is he now? looks like he aint gonna get another title shot soon.

and btw, triple h actually put over batista, who became a massive draw after the series of matches. he also put over randy orton, hbk, edge, etc.

 

[DetectiveZelix]

All of this arguing is stupid as fuck. Geez both of you make good points but you cant give each other a chance to see things in the other persons point of view. Really sad you guys are. Both eras were great. I myself relate more to the A.E. as it was far more entertaining for me and personally John Cena does nothing for me, just an all around boring character. I'd much rather watch Punk or Bryan or most recently Bray Wyatt, who are far more talented and enjoyable to watch. But anyways I consider Cena for the kids so I tend to ignore him though I love Mark Henry so I'm kind of forced to watch him and his extremely lame promos but oh well in wrestling just like the A.E you have to take the bad with the good as the good usually outweighs the bad anyways. But back to the subject I would hope Cena loses the title soon but if history speaks he will keep it for quite a while which is fine because most of us are used to him with the title and I've kind of grown numb to him in general so I'll just wait until someone beats him for it like Edge and RVD did in the past. I think thats what makes him so interesting when someone beats him lol. Anyways hope you guys stop arguining. Your opinion will remain and its going to change so let it go

 

[CmPunker]

Read what <3ShieldGirl<3 is saying, CmPunker. Then ask yourself this: If the Attitude era was so great, why isn't the WWE still doing it? You can keep saying that "Vince is so dumb", but the man turned himself from someone who worked for a regional promotion called WWWF in the Connecticut/MSG area who got a job because daddy was his boss to making pro-wrestling a national industry ad made himself a billionaire. Somehow that doesn't spell out "dumb" to me. He knew that the Attitude era had run it's course and moved on to something new.

Vince McMahon is about the bottom line: how will this affect profits and the company. If the Attitude era was still making a metric fuck ton of money, it would still be going on, now wouldn't it?

because wwe is fucking stupid.. vince is not smart, okay, he only loves body builders. if u love body builders so much, go to a fucking body building contestl... and it wasnt vince that turned the company great, it was the star power, the hype, and the fucking writers, who were amazing and motivated at the time. hes diong something new, look at the ratings and merchandise sales and mainstream appael now.. almsot no mainstream appeal. a "lolfake" tag. i feel like a return to the AE would revitalize mainstream appeal and remove the "lolfake" tag.

and the only reason vince quit the AE is because of his stupid wife, linda mcmahon, and she is running for senator.. learn ur fucking facts

 

[Nate DaMac]

because wwe is fucking stupid.. vince is not smart, okay, he only loves body builders. if u love body builders so much, go to a fucking body building contestl

Let us look back on the big stars of the Attitude Era

Austin
Rock
Triple H
Undertaker
Kane
Mick Foley.

Oh yeah, all of them could be on Muscle and Fitness any day.

... and it wasnt vince that turned the company great, it was the star power, the hype, and the fucking writers, who were amazing and motivated at the time. hes diong something new, look at the ratings and merchandise sales and mainstream appael now.. almsot no mainstream appeal. a "lolfake" tag. i feel like a return to the AE would revitalize mainstream appeal and remove the "lolfake" tag.

The lolfake tag will never be removed because it's fucking fake, you moron. I can't imagine that you'd possibly be able to understand the intricacies of televison ratings so I won't even bother to to explain to you how the current ratings aren't really too far off from where they were 10 years ago, but your "mainstream appeal" argument is downright wrong. The WWE gets mentioned on ESPN, they are regular guests on late night talk shows and are featured heavily on morning talk shows and radio shows. Not to mention their enormous presence on social media. They were featured in the same way back in the Attitude Era, but not nearly as much as they are now. You cannot dispute this either, you were barely out of diapers when the AE was happening, you wouldn't have a clue.

and the only reason vince quit the AE is because of his stupid wife, linda mcmahon, and she is running for senator.. learn ur fucking facts

Linda McMahon left t run for office in 2009. The WWE went PG well before 09. Learn YOUR fucking facts, ******.

 

[newwaveknight]

i feel like a return to the AE would revitalize mainstream appeal and remove the "lolfake" tag.

So, to get people to suspend their disbelief about wrestling being fake.....bring back an era where a dude talked to a mannequin head, another one dragged someone into Hell, and an old lady gave birth to a hand? You make babies facepalm.

and the only reason vince quit the AE is because of his stupid wife, linda mcmahon, and she is running for senator.. learn ur fucking facts

Get YOUR (and it's "your", not "ur") facts straight, junior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_McMahon#Political_career

Linda didn't enter politics until 2009. The AE effectively ended in 2002ish.

Now that I have shot down your arguments with facts and sources for my facts, can you please just get off of WrestleZone so we can end this flame war and go home?

 

[CmPunker]

Let us look back on the big stars of the Attitude Era

Austin
Rock
Triple H
Undertaker
Kane
Mick Foley.

Oh yeah, all of them could be on Muscle and Fitness any day. :rolleyes

Don't be so sarcastic and don't try to be smart.. they were on top because they are good draws and they kissed vince's ass.. but don't deny the fact that vince loves bodybuilders.

The lolfake tag will never be removed because it's fucking fake, you moron. I can't imagine that you'd possibly be able to understand the intricacies of televison ratings so I won't even bother to to explain to you how the current ratings aren't really too far off from where they were 10 years ago, but your "mainstream appeal" argument is downright wrong. The WWE gets mentioned on ESPN, they are regular guests on late night talk shows and are featured heavily on morning talk shows and radio shows. Not to mention their enormous presence on social media. They were featured in the same way back in the Attitude Era, but not nearly as much as they are now. You cannot dispute this either, you were barely out of diapers when the AE was happening, you wouldn't have a clue.

They are really far off from 10 years ago actually. 10 years ago they were scoring 3.5 rating, now their average is 2.9 rating.

what? you are actually debating that wwe gets mainstream appeal? its not even a hot topic right now.. lol. u have got to be kidding me. on my instagram, i am following like 500 people, and nobody ever mentions wwe.. nobody.. on facebook, nobody mentions wwe, only the wwe page. u are really delusional right now, u know that? wrestling is not that hot of a topic anymore, mainly because of john cena and the PG rating.

Linda McMahon left t run for office in 2009. The WWE went PG well before 09. Learn YOUR fucking facts, ******.

First of all, dont call me a ******. second of all, did you consider the fact that vince planned AHEAD of time to make it look as if linda legitimately wanted to change it to PG, not because of the run for office?

 

[CmPunker]

So, to get people to suspend their disbelief about wrestling being fake.....bring back an era where a dude talked to a mannequin head, another one dragged someone into Hell, and an old lady gave birth to a hand? You make babies facepalm.

yes, but plz dont twist my words.. why do u think the AE didnt get this lolfake tag? its beacuse its fucking intense as fuck and people could get into it.

Get YOUR (and it's "your", not "ur") facts straight, junior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_McMahon#Political_career

Linda didn't enter politics until 2009. The AE effectively ended in 2002ish.

read my post above..
Now that I have shot down your arguments with facts and sources for my facts, can you please just get off of WrestleZone so we can end this flame war and go home?[/QUOTE]
no, i have shot down YOUR arguments.. and no i will not get off wrestlezone. why dont YOU get off wrestlezone. im the one with 190 posts, u have 100 posts, get the hell out.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

You think you are so correct when youre not.. it really baffles me.

No.. how did cena make them look good while losing? by getting beat up? so getting beat up means you put someone over? Is that seriously how you are going to go with your fucking logic? Makes no sense at all man. getting beat up does not mean u put someone over.. by that logic, cody rhodes was put over by big show because cody rhodes slapped big show..

No, by making other talent look like bigger stars and taking them from one level to another whilst giving them additional credibility. That's putting someone over. That doesn't mean you have to lose to someone, it just means you make them look good.

Nope. you are only correct on half of them..

Oh boy this should be fun...

Edge - was already a main eventer before he feuded with cena. also, cena defeated him more times than edge defeated cena.. and edge never got a clean victory over cena, whilst all of cena's victories against edge were clean.. remember that edge was ALREADY a main eventer before he faced cena. and also do u remember when edge lost the title on his 1st ever title defense? that was embarassing as fuck..

He was such a main eventer that he had never previously main evented a PPV or been involved in a main event programme that didn't already include a sizeable number of other or wrestle for the world title before he took it off Cena. Aye, real main eventer there.

Perhaps this concept is foreign to you, but traditionally, and this is a thing that has stayed intact throughout the ages, the hero defeats the villain. That's something that seems to get lost in translation for a lot of internet wrestling fans. Edge was clearly a villain in his feud with Cena. Cena defeating Edge is a case of Cena overcoming the villain. What Cena did before (and after) vanquishing the villain was make him look like a credible threat, losing to Edge multiple times on PPV before finishing up their programme. And just a side note here, it was Edge who won the last battle with Cena at Backlash 2009.

RVD - somewhat, to an extent.. but then look what happened AFTER he got put over, he lost both his titles after 1 month of holding it.. and then he was released.

Cena laid down for the three count in the middle of the ring. He got pinned and WWE put their premier title on Van Dam after Cena was willing to put him over into the stratosphere as the guy. Van Damn then proceeds to screw up his own reign by being caught with narcotics less than a month after winning the title. He then drops both his titles to Edge (who goes on to have a highly successful programme with Cena no less) and Big Show and is suspended. He continues to wrestle for WWE for a year before deciding, on his own, to leave the company after his contract expired. Cena put Van Dam over and then Rob messed up his own big shot at glory.

Kevin Federline - to an extent, yes. i will admit he did put over kevin federline. a celebrity beating a top star, with 4 peoples help, is somewhat impressive. *sarcasm*

He was willing to job to a guy who is widely disliked and wasn't sticking around in the name of the company. I'd like to see either Hogan or Austin or anyone else quite frankly, do that in Cena's position.

sheamus - john cena made sheamus look like a fucking pussy. every fucking time sheamus ran away like a coward. but guess what? when sheamus feuded with hhh, he automatically turned into a legitimate badass.. but when he feuded with cena, he was a pussy.

That's right Sheamus ran like a pussy...when he was being hunted down by a group of seven hungry animals that had a track record for destruction having put Hall of Famers and Cena himself down, and down hard. Yeah he looked like a real coward going for that self-preservation thing. And again, how does Cena make Sheamus look like a pussy. Cena went through a table, got pinned and lost a Cage match to Sheamus three times on PPV. He dropped the WWE Championship to him not once but twice within six months. He turned Sheamus from some dude who feuded with Goldust on ECW and won a battle royal this one time into a major name on Raw. Indeed Triple H also helped in that process, but Cena was the major catalyst for that push to go down.

barrett and nexus - lol what.. are u fucking kidding me. cena did put them over, i will admit it.

Um, LULZ what?

but they were only being put over to get fed to cena once again.. remember tlc 2011?

No but I do remember the 2010 edition where Cena defeated Wade Barrett in a competitive one-on-one contest...

it was cena vs wade barrett.. guess what? cena took out the entire nexus by himself.. for one man to defeat 6-7 people by himself.. that is absolutely embarassing and humiliating. also, did i mention where is wade barrett and the rest of nexus now? ryback was recently fed to cena, justin gabriel will be future endeavored, heath slater is going nowhere, wade barrett is a mid carder STILL, michael tarvar was released, david otunga is nowhere to be seen.. u get my point, nobody was successful in nexus. and DO NOT say daniel bryan, because daniel bryan was fired from his 1st week from nexus.

Cena eliminated the Nexus over a period of several weeks culminating in defeating Barrett and taking his revenge on the man who had tormented and humiliated him for months on end throughout the summer and autumn of 2010. Remember that thing I said about it being fairly traditional to have your hero vanquish the villain in the end well, point in case. Also, how is it Cena's fault that the people involved in Nexus have amounted to very little in the grand scheme of things. He did his job and made them look like a credible threat what followed was a grander problem than John Cena.

The miz - he put him over

Yes, you're right, he did.

, then he was fed, again. getting put over, then getting fed, does not COUNT as putting over.. it counts as FEEDING. feeding is when u are built up and defeat a superstar ONE TIME and then the opponent defeats u three fucking times in a row CLEAN. does feeding count as putting over? dont think so.. the miz needed the rock to beat him at WM. after that, cena beat miz clean 3 times in a fuckin row, and caused the miz to get lost in the shuffle. where is the miz now? still hasnt held another championship and in the mid card. hes struggling to even make it on the card, he is basically a heel version of kofi kingston.

Cena beat Miz clean three times in a row? Can't say I recall that. I do seem to remember Miz pinning Cena in the middle of the ring in the Main Event of WrestleMania. Granted Miz didn't do that clean, but the dude was a heel. Very few heels have ever gotten over as a result of winning 100% clean when it matters. Miz went over Cena and he was a star. It was followed by two PPV title matches where other factors involved. Cena facing Miz and John Morrision inside a Steel Cage and Alex Riley screwing up a couple of times in a standard match which Miz actual won by pinning Cena...again, before the decision was reversed and an I-Quit match where...oh lookie here, Cena used weapons and what not to beat Miz...after Riley screwed up again.

cm punk - cm punk got himself over, first of all. he had his infamous shoot.

That's right because that would've worked so well if he wasn't facing the face of the company heading into his hometown wouldn't it

and 2 of his victories, MITB and summerslam 2011, were flukes. MITB 2011 - it was not clean becaus johnny laurinitis fucking interfered..

So Johnny Ace showing up and getting decked before Punk dropped Cena like a bad habit and pinned him in the middle of the ring 1-2-3 where upon Cena hadn't actually been dealt any physical bodily harm from anyone not named CM Punk isn't actually putting someone over...riiiight

summerslam 2011 - triple h didnt see john cena's foot. its the equivalent of someone kicking out, but the ref not seeing it. its just NOT a proper finish.. and also, cena got all his wins back, because wwe loves to kiss cena's ass so much. look.. on the road to wrestlemania, cena beat punk CLEAN.. jesus christ, way to make punk look credible to face the undertaker. im sure clean losses are SOOO good for credibility.

That's right and it was designed to further fuel the conspiracy angle that was going on at the time...which the immediate aftermath of the match did too when Nash showed up and helped Del Rio win the title. Cena still took the loss against an already over Punk at the second biggest WWE event of the year. Oh and as for Cena winning that one time on the Road to WrestleMania this year, wasn't like the match went 30 minutes and Cena was fighting for a spot in arguably the biggest match of his career was it...oh wait, and that's right, heroes overcome their villains don't they...

fucking Alberto Del rio- first of all, both are spoiled brats, i could care less what happens to them.. but alberto del rio only got 1 victory over john cena, with the help of 3 other people (ricardo, r truth, the miz).. wow, way to build up your champion.. anyways john cena got his fucking wins back, TWICE. john cena beat alberto del rio a few months later, on a Santa claus christmas episode, and then he baet him just 2 weeks ago on row, very recently.. so its clear that john cena got his wins back, because nobody will EVER get the last laugh against john super fucking cena.

Perhaps you live in some weird dimension where 2011 and 2012 are the same year, but Cena pinned Del Rio on Raw 14 months after losing the ADR at Vengeance in the match you're describing. Del Rio was a rich, cocky, arrogant heel who required help to capture the title in the first place and in fact has needed help largely throughout his career to win titles. Cena losing to him in such a manner was perfectly in character for Del Rio and, shockingly enough, heels do cheat to win. It’s in their nature.

Tensai - WHAT??? are u seriuos, tensai beat cena ONE time, and u call that putting over? wow.. come on man. first of all, tensai was fed to cena, do i have to restate it? feeding is when u get a decent victory ONC and then u lose the rest of the matches. tensai lost about 2 other matches to john cena CLEAN. and where is he now? hes in a comedy tag team, which has no direction..

Again, it's Cena's fault that a few months after Tensai debuted he flopped horribly and he subsequently went over him? Tensai debuted, was around for two weeks squashing the likes of Yoshi Tatsu and then, pinned Cena in the centre of the ring within the rules of the match and without assistance. That's putting someone over.

Johnny ace - okay, so what, he put him over ONE time, then he was fed again.. the next ppv, on no way out, it was cena vs big show, cena won, so laurinitis was fired.. so where is johnny ace now? nowhere to be seen.. again, FEEDING is not PUTTING OVER.. come on now, u know better than that.. cena didnt even take him seriously as a threat. all he fucking did was smile it off, even with a broken fucking elbow, he still kept smiling like a jackass loser. and now i am going to tell wwe how wrnog it is to have cena end johnny's career. WHY THE FUCK, didn't u fucking get a NEW star to get that rub.. whoever ends his career will have a massive rub and INSTANTLY get over. since johny' was such a huge heat magnet, it would be soo soo fucking beneficial.. but noooo, instead we give it to john cena, who ALREADY peaked. he cant go any higher than he already has.. people wont like him any more than they already do, and people wont suddenly change their decisions from hating him to liking him.. what if u fucking had cm punk to end johnny ace's career? because cm punk can actually benefit form it. hes the fucking future of the company and he needs to reach his peak. i dontb elieve he reached his peak yet. he still hasnt beaten a TOP TOP star (undertaker, hhh, the rock).. cm punk still needs that top win to solidify his career and cement his fucking legacy and become a LEGEND.. well i guess theyre going to give Cena EVERYTHING right? like every single person will be fed to cena, sounds fair, right?

Um, Johnny Ace pinning Cena is getting a rub and gaining further heat. The top face defeated the top heel and he went bye-bye, just like how wrestling has always been. That's classic wrestling style booking right there. Also, Punk didn't beat a top top star? Um, Cena...twice?

the shield - no.. i would say that the shield were put over by john cena for 1 week. and then embarassed. not FED, but embarassed. u know why? because their victory against john cena was NOT clean. cena had an injured fucking ankle. do u know what clean wins? clean means fair and square, no bullshit, no faulty referees, no injuries, none of that bullshit.. clean means FAIR AND SQUARE, which means both players are on equal playing level.. if u think clean ONLY means playing by the rules, then going by that logic, kevin federline just beat cena clean, but he didnt.. clean is more than just going by the rules, clean is FAIR AND SQUARE. anyways the next fucking week on raw, the shield lost to cena via DQ. imo it was embarassing. 3 vs 1.. shield vs cena.. i know it was a DQ win, but the way they fucking set it up. it made it LOOK like ambrose was going to tap out.. it was just so so embarassing if u look at it on paper and from a casual fan's perspective.

Let’s see here, The Shield, or more precisely, Roman Reigns, pinned Cena's shoulders to the mat for a three count. Now while its true Cena had that injured ankle coming in, he was holding his own for pretty much the entirety of the match. He tweaked it at the end and like good heels, The Shield took advantage and defeated Cena. Subsequently The Shield pinned the WWE Champion in the middle of the ring and continued their winning streak, looking dominant in the process.

curtis axel - a countout win with help from ryback counts as putting over, seriously? where is curtis axel now? still in the mid card.

Well yes because the match they had was credible. Cena wasn't on the verge of beating Axel and Axel won the match within the rules of the contest. I'd call that putting someone over. He also didn't steal Axel's spotlight or make him look incapable of holding his own like HHH did so yeah, Cena put Axel over.

dolph ziggler - one of the worst examples ever. in fact, i think cena ruined ziggler's momentum. seriously.. dolph ziggler got ONE fuckign win over cena, whoppy whoppy wo, who the fuc cares.. anyways, here is what i am going to say. dolph ziggler was FED to john cena.. fuckking fed to john cena.

Well here's the thing: Ziggler beat Cena in a big time gimmick match in the main event of a PPV. People are going to remember that as opposed to the other times Cena beat Ziggler, aren't they? And Cena still did the job and put Ziggler over.

his fucking TLC win was needed help from his girlfriend AJ LEE. and aj lee's heel turn OVERFUCKING SHADOWED ziggler's win. the announcers didnt even hype the fuck out of zigglers win, which makes his win even more forgettable. after that, cena no sold the loss and no sold aj cheating on him. cena just smiled it off like it was nothing. then a few weeks later, cena battled ziggler in a series of matches, in which cena won them ALL. ziggler threw every fucking thing he got on cena, aj lee, big e langstno, interference, chairs, etc, but super cena overcame it all... cena kicked out of all of ziggler's finishers, while cena finished him off.. god damn, ziggler threw everything he had on cena, and still failed. isnt that embarassing? note that the casuals dont care about just ONE win, they clearly didnt make ziggler and cena equal to each other. what a one sided feud.

See here's the thing, no heels are going to be Cena's equal unless they're a star the size of Lesnar. Cena is the main attraction. He's what people pay to see. Dolph Ziggler isn't Cena's equal; he was Cena's rival sure, but he was never his equal, just as most heels are never their rivals equal. That's what makes their victories so much more devious. Also, in a year or two, are people going to remember a PPV main event win or are they going to recall several uneventful matches on Raw from the start of 2013?

randy orton was put over by triple h, not john cena.. john cena was injured by the time randy orton was going after him. it was triple h that jobbed to randy, i give credit to even the egotistical triple h, making cena even MORE egotistical. if an egotistical HHH puts over randy isntead of cena, that is saying A LOT.

That's right, Triple H, whose record against Orton in big-time matches reads something like 10-4 and didn't lose to him until after he'd beaten him in the first place. He did a real good job putting Orton over. Prior to Cena’s injury in 2007, Orton was starting to get that big push to the WWE title. He lost the first, highly competitive, encounter with Cena. He then proceeded to get under John's skin and provoke him into a DQ loss at the following show. Then he took him out of action. He dropped him with an RKO and sent him packing, forcing him to drop the WWE Championship. I'd call that a big time case of going over someone.

Jbl, the rock, triple h, and shawn michaels were all aready main eventers, are u fucking serious? its like saying edge put over undertaker.. because they were ALREADY main eventors when they feuded.

Cena lost to JBL in their final encounter....putting JBL over and setting him up for a title challenge against CM Punk at SummerSlam 2008. Cena gave lost to Triple H on PPV when there was no other stars on Raw for Triple H to beat because he'd already done so. Cena gave Triple H a rub and helped give his title reign further credibility. Shawn Michaels beat Cena at the end of a classic, classic match in London. He had Shawn go over him 1-2-3 in a highly competitive encounter that made both men look outstanding. If the Rock didn't have Cena to play off against then do you think his return would've been as newsworthy? If Rock didn't have John Cena to battle and encounter and if Cena didn't allow Rock to pin him at WrestleMania XXVIII do you think we would have seen WWE make the same huge money off of WrestleMania 29? No. Cena gave Rock's return the credibility it needed and he put Dwayne over at Mania 28.

umaga was fed to cena.. umaga had an undefeated streak, then he lost to john cena, it was an obvious "dragon slaying" and "overcoming all odds" match.. so obvious and predictable, definitely no favors for umaga..

Umaga's undefeated streak consisted of feuds with a 60 year old Ric Flair, Kane in the midst of his jobber to the stars world tour and that titan Eugene. Cena's recurring destruction at the hands of Umaga in both their title matches as well as the build to the matches sets Umaga up as a monster not only for the programme, but for the future. It took a roll-up and attempted murder essentially to beat Umaga. He made Umaga look like a freak of nature that he could barely stop.

i admit that bobby lashley was still strong in defeat because he was just a mid carder and he was booked like an equal. so ill give cena credit for that.

I think I just saw a pig fly...

khali - not really, he was fed to john cena.. one win, and 3 losses.. doesnt scream "equal" another obvious dragon slayingm atch.

Cena lost to Khali and allowed Khali to look very capable against him. He also managed to make Khali look like a credible in-ring performer. Very few people can do that. Cena managed it.

ryback - not really. not a single victory over cena. he was turned heel out of nowhere, and then cena didnt take him as a legitimate threat. in addition, ryback looked like a fucking chicken. he kept running away from john cena. for gods sake, a man with that physique shouldnt be acting like a fucking chicken.. fucking 280 pounds, how can u run away like that?? also was fed to cena, where is he now? looks like he aint gonna get another title shot soon.

Ryback pinned Cena in the first fall of their match at Payback. He pinned him clean and Cena didn't pin him or make him submit once. Ryback also didn't run. When did he run? When he got jumped in London after dealing with The Shield? Maybe, but he came back the next week and beat Cena down. He was exceedingly close to beating Cena at Extreme Rules. Again, Cena made Ryback look capable, credible and made him appear to be a major threat.

and btw, triple h actually put over batista, who became a massive draw after the series of matches. he also put over randy orton, hbk, edge, etc.

Triple H did indeed put over Dave Batista, but when Batista fought Cena in their first ever encounter in a match that was pretty darn huge, was it Cena, the face of the company who went over, or Batista, the clear number two. Well lookie here folks. Batista done pinned Cena clean in the clash of the titans style bout.

As for your little thing about Triple H putting over Shawn Michaels and Edge, please I'd love to see some evidence of this...

 

[Nate DaMac]

Don't be so sarcastic and don't try to be smart.. they were on top because they are good draws and they kissed vince's ass.. but don't deny the fact that vince loves bodybuilders.

I think I've already proven you wrong here, no idea why you even bothered responding to this part.

They are really far off from 10 years ago actually. 10 years ago they were scoring 3.5 rating, now their average is 2.9 rating.

Explain to me how TV ratings work. If I feel that you have even the slightest idea, I'll explain to you why you're wrong.

what? you are actually debating that wwe gets mainstream appeal? its not even a hot topic right now.. lol. u have got to be kidding me. on my instagram, i am following like 500 people, and nobody ever mentions wwe.. nobody.. on facebook, nobody mentions wwe, only the wwe page. u are really delusional right now, u know that? wrestling is not that hot of a topic anymore, mainly because of john cena and the PG rating.

How do you know WWF was a hotter topic during the Attitude Era? You were a prepubescent child and judging by your clear lack of development at your current age, I assume you weren't being talked to by your peers since no one wants to hang out with the 7 year old who still has to wear a diaper.

First of all, dont call me a ******.

Be grateful that I'm leaving it at that, ******.

second of all, did you consider the fact that vince planned AHEAD of time to make it look as if linda legitimately wanted to change it to PG, not because of the run for office?

... What?

 

[newwaveknight]

no, i have shot down YOUR arguments.. and no i will not get off wrestlezone. why dont YOU get off wrestlezone. im the one with 190 posts, u have 100 posts, get the hell out.

How have you shot down my arguments? You only repeat the same things over and over again, yet have no sources to back up any of your outlandish claims.

Dude, it doesn't matter if you have more posts. Look at your reputation points. People have more respect for Casey Anthony than they do for you.

Srsly why r u evn stll on this.....

....Goddamit, your stupidity is contagious! I'm getting out of this thread while I still have some brain cells intact. <3ShieldGirl<3, I leave this in your hands. Do me proud!

 

[CmPunker]

No, by making other talent look like bigger stars and taking them from one level to another whilst giving them additional credibility. That's putting someone over. That doesn't mean you have to lose to someone, it just means you make them look good.

let met ask you something. if someone loess 10 times in a row to the same person, is that making someone look good?

Oh boy this should be fun...

I love how you think you are so fucking smart when you are fucking not man.

He was such a main eventer that he had never previously main evented a PPV or been involved in a main event programme that didn't already include a sizeable number of other or wrestle for the world title before he took it off Cena. Aye, real main eventer there.

Edge lost the title on his 1st PPV defense.. how does that make him look good? if anything, it is an embarassing statistic. and for the record, before edge feuded with cena, he won most of his matches. he beated chris benoit, chris jericho, shawn michaels, kane, and pretty much a lot of top faces..

Perhaps this concept is foreign to you, but traditionally, and this is a thing that has stayed intact throughout the ages, the hero defeats the villain. That's something that seems to get lost in translation for a lot of internet wrestling fans. Edge was clearly a villain in his feud with Cena. Cena defeating Edge is a case of Cena overcoming the villain. What Cena did before (and after) vanquishing the villain was make him look like a credible threat, losing to Edge multiple times on PPV before finishing up their programme. And just a side note here, it was Edge who won the last battle with Cena at Backlash 2009.

Such a flaw in that predictable booking. do u know how to make villians look legit? by making them end feuds as the winners. this is what people will take seriously.. and based no your logic, sin cara should defeat big show and lesnar in a 2v1 fight CLEAN. is that the route youre going to go down in? the hero overcomes the villians no matter what happens? seriously? thank god you are not a wwe writer lol.. it would be worse than it am today. and btw, it was john cena who got the last laugh when he defeated edge on a raw episode in 2011.

Cena laid down for the three count in the middle of the ring. He got pinned and WWE put their premier title on Van Dam after Cena was willing to put him over into the stratosphere as the guy. Van Damn then proceeds to screw up his own reign by being caught with narcotics less than a month after winning the title. He then drops both his titles to Edge (who goes on to have a highly successful programme with Cena no less) and Big Show and is suspended. He continues to wrestle for WWE for a year before deciding, on his own, to leave the company after his contract expired. Cena put Van Dam over and then Rob messed up his own big shot at glory.

cena didn't put rvd over.. his victory was a fluke because everybody knows he needed 2 people to help him, paul heyman and edge. shouldnt rvd look credible by beating cena clean? if theyre going to make rvd a top face, at lesat give him a clean victory.. so rvd was put over, but it wasnt realy a big difference.

He was willing to job to a guy who is widely disliked and wasn't sticking around in the name of the company. I'd like to see either Hogan or Austin or anyone else quite frankly, do that in Cena's position.

he didn't "job".. 1 very dirty loss is hardly a job.. it wasn't even a 1v1 match.. it was a 4v1 match. johnny nitro, kevin federline, umaga, and armaddo estralla vs john cena.. of course john cena would job, anybody would job if theyre going to receive that much protection.. even hogan and austin would. stop putting over cena like he is you're hero.

That's right Sheamus ran like a pussy...when he was being hunted down by a group of seven hungry animals that had a track record for destruction having put Hall of Famers and Cena himself down, and down hard. Yeah he looked like a real coward going for that self-preservation thing. And again, how does Cena make Sheamus look like a pussy. Cena went through a table, got pinned and lost a Cage match to Sheamus three times on PPV. He dropped the WWE Championship to him not once but twice within six months. He turned Sheamus from some dude who feuded with Goldust on ECW and won a battle royal this one time into a major name on Raw. Indeed Triple H also helped in that process, but Cena was the major catalyst for that push to go down.

lol? sheamus beat cena in 3 cage matches in a row? where the fuck are you getting your information LOL. why would anyone have 3 steel cage matches in a row with the same winner. LOL thank god you are not a wwe writer. anyways, you are basically saying that running away is not cowardly.. okay, then why dont john cena do it? lol are u fucking serious man? the 1st victory was clean and good, but it wasnt in the main event, so it was overshadowed by DX vs big show and chris jericho.. and also, sheamus was taking a backseat during the royal rumble, and then he lost it at Elimination chamber, such a short title reign. and when he finally won it back against john cena, he fucking needed 7 other people to help him pin john cena, he looked like a total loser.

Um, LULZ what?

LULZ, what? Are you having a hard time reading?

No but I do remember the 2010 edition where Cena defeated Wade Barrett in a competitive one-on-one contest...

Nice job on nitpicking, very good job man. *sarcasm*

Cena eliminated the Nexus over a period of several weeks culminating in defeating Barrett and taking his revenge on the man who had tormented and humiliated him for months on end throughout the summer and autumn of 2010. Remember that thing I said about it being fairly traditional to have your hero vanquish the villain in the end well, point in case. Also, how is it Cena's fault that the people involved in Nexus have amounted to very little in the grand scheme of things. He did his job and made them look like a credible threat what followed was a grander problem than John Cena.

Dude.. john cena buried the nexus, just face it.. WHY THE FUCK DID cena take out an entire stable ALL BY HIMSELF?? he even took them out AGAIN at the royal fucking ru,mble, he eliminated them all BY HIMSELF. SUPERCENA ELIMINATES MASON RYAN, CM PUNK, DAVID OTUNGA, MICHAEL MCGULLIGUDY, 4 MEN, ALL BY HIMSELF. isnt that embarassing? seriously man, how can u not see the flawed logic in that. are u that dleusional and fucking ******ed? he put them over for a short bit, and then buried them.. congratulations, thats the reasno why the nexus is no longer here. the reason he is responsible is because he ruined their momentum and made them less over..

Yes, you're right, he did.

why do u keep quoting half a sentence.. quote the whole fucking sentence.

Cena beat Miz clean three times in a row? Can't say I recall that. I do seem to remember Miz pinning Cena in the middle of the ring in the Main Event of WrestleMania. Granted Miz didn't do that clean, but the dude was a heel. Very few heels have ever gotten over as a result of winning 100% clean when it matters. Miz went over Cena and he was a star. It was followed by two PPV title matches where other factors involved. Cena facing Miz and John Morrision inside a Steel Cage and Alex Riley screwing up a couple of times in a standard match which Miz actual won by pinning Cena...again, before the decision was reversed and an I-Quit match where...oh lookie here, Cena used weapons and what not to beat Miz...after Riley screwed up again.

You don't recall that lol? Extreme rules 2011.. Over the limit 2010, another episode on raw.. miz was not a star, not even close.. look now, where is the miz right now? oh yeah, he is stll trying to recover from the burial.. that really ruined his momentum though, losing to cena 3 times in a row is NOT good.. u keep on saying how protected the miz was in defeat. he was not protected at all, if he were protected, hhe would have at least gotten at least one more victory for ihmself..

That's right because that would've worked so well if he wasn't facing the face of the company heading into his hometown wouldn't it

Look, okay. what dont you understand about clean victories? that victory was not clean, cm punk capitalized off of a distraction and luckily got out of a submission move that he may have tapped out of.. how did that make cm punk look good at all? casual fans will think that cm punk cant beat john cena fair and square because he is too fucking weak. how does the demonstrate wwe's faith in cm punk? not much faith .. and by the way, a feud with cena doesnt put people over as much as u think it does.. look at great khali, ryback, kane, big show, john laurinitis, umaga, wade barrett, etc.. look at all of them now and where are they? they are nowhere near the main event picture. u are so overrating cena's ability to put people over. stop being so fucking delusional, idiot.

So Johnny Ace showing up and getting decked before Punk dropped Cena like a bad habit and pinned him in the middle of the ring 1-2-3 where upon Cena hadn't actually been dealt any physical bodily harm from anyone not named CM Punk isn't actually putting someone over...riiiight

no.. it was a DISTRACTION.. cm punk MAY have tapped out to the STF.. and also cm punk would never have gotten that open spot for the GTS if it weren't for john laurinitis. no its not putting over because its not a clean victory. its a fluke victory and all the casual fans know it.

That's right and it was designed to further fuel the conspiracy angle that was going on at the time...which the immediate aftermath of the match did too when Nash showed up and helped Del Rio win the title. Cena still took the loss against an already over Punk at the second biggest WWE event of the year. Oh and as for Cena winning that one time on the Road to WrestleMania this year, wasn't like the match went 30 minutes and Cena was fighting for a spot in arguably the biggest match of his career was it...oh wait, and that's right, heroes overcome their villains don't they...

stop with that bullshit man.. that decision to make cm punk win via a realy really improper finish was just bullshit.. leading up to a conspiracy angle? and what did it lead to? the del rio cash in and kevin nash storyline never connected.. the storyline was horrible as fuck. kevin nash texted HISMELF? why does he need to text himself? why cant he just do it without texting himself? hes doing it on his own, so he doesnt need permission from anybody else.. so many storyline flaws.. and thats because wwe creative doesnt know how to think... thats just a fucking excuse for cm punk not to win clean, its an EXCUSE.

Perhaps you live in some weird dimension where 2011 and 2012 are the same year, but Cena pinned Del Rio on Raw 14 months after losing the ADR at Vengeance in the match you're describing. Del Rio was a rich, cocky, arrogant heel who required help to capture the title in the first place and in fact has needed help largely throughout his career to win titles. Cena losing to him in such a manner was perfectly in character for Del Rio and, shockingly enough, heels do cheat to win. It’s in their nature.

heels cheat to win? lol, again, thank god u are not a wwe writer though, all heels would be booked like shit. at least they are booking lesnar somewhat well. but anyways, just because its in del rio's character to cheat doesnt mean shit.. that just means that hes never going to be credible and he will never be taken seriously.. this is why wwe has very few credible heels. the top full time heels right now are del rio and mark henry. that is SAD right there. that is sad as fuck! SAD as fuck. if ur top heels are henry and del rio, oh my fucking god, idk what to say, that is just so fucking disgraceful.. that is the flaw in ur booking and wwe's booking..

Again, it's Cena's fault that a few months after Tensai debuted he flopped horribly and he subsequently went over him? Tensai debuted, was around for two weeks squashing the likes of Yoshi Tatsu and then, pinned Cena in the centre of the ring within the rules of the match and without assistance. That's putting someone over.

Yeah and its also cena's fault that cena didnt take tensai seriously as a threat. after he beat him, its like he just brushed him aside like he was nothing, like he wasn't a threat..u act like tensai actually beat cena clean. tensai DIDNT beat cena clean, there was interference from both david otunga and john laurinitis, and tensai used his green mist.. just because its in the rules doesnt mean its clean. if u go by that logic, i cant believe i have to prove u wrong AGAIN, but if u go by that logic, kevin federline beat cena clean. just doesnt sound right.

Um, Johnny Ace pinning Cena is getting a rub and gaining further heat. The top face defeated the top heel and he went bye-bye, just like how wrestling has always been. That's classic wrestling style booking right there. Also, Punk didn't beat a top top star? Um, Cena...twice?

thats how u justify cena selfishly ending a top heel's career? why did cena need that rub? what does that do in the long term? classic wrestling booking my ass. classic wrestling booking is putting over talent, then u use those newly put over talent to put over even newer talent. that right there is classic booking ,but wwe doesnt follow it. instead they feed everything to ONE person.

Let’s see here, The Shield, or more precisely, Roman Reigns, pinned Cena's shoulders to the mat for a three count. Now while its true Cena had that injured ankle coming in, he was holding his own for pretty much the entirety of the match. He tweaked it at the end and like good heels, The Shield took advantage and defeated Cena. Subsequently The Shield pinned the WWE Champion in the middle of the ring and continued their winning streak, looking dominant in the process.

he was holding his own until the last possible moment, when his ankle gave up.. and to be honest i think his selling was awful in that match. he only sold it during the end. and cena got his win back by defeating the shield in a 3v1 fucking contest, are u fucking flipping me? WHENEVER SOMEONE GETS A WIN OVER CENA, CENA GETS THE WIN BACK?? ARE U FUCKING KIDDING ME U FUCKING ******ED ASS FUCKING CREATIVE TEAM??

Well yes because the match they had was credible. Cena wasn't on the verge of beating Axel and Axel won the match within the rules of the contest. I'd call that putting someone over. He also didn't steal Axel's spotlight or make him look incapable of holding his own like HHH did so yeah, Cena put Axel over.

ok lets see, it was fucking 3v1. ryback and paul heyman and curtis axel vs john cena.. so i guess two people arent enough to beat cena (paul and curtis), so u need ryback, cuz its SUPER CENA, u need 3 people to beat him, right? LOL dont make me laugh stupid creative team.. are u really gonna suck cena's dick this much? in the next 3 months, i bet cena will get his win back, lol. i honestly cant see curtis going too far and nobody will ever get the last laugh against super cena.

Well here's the thing: Ziggler beat Cena in a big time gimmick match in the main event of a PPV. People are going to remember that as opposed to the other times Cena beat Ziggler, aren't they? And Cena still did the job and put Ziggler over.

BIG TIME gimmick match? seriously? that was a very forgettable ppv, i think that the Road to wrestlemania was more memorable than that ppv honestly.. nothing good about that ppv without cm punk in it. also, did u not read my post? i said that Aj lee's heel turn overshadowed ziggler's win and also man, john cena no sold that lost.. ur fucking girlfriend just betrayed u and ur just giong to smile it off? way to take ur opponents seriously.. the next night on raw, he went on with his stupid jokes and smiling again, and this time made ziggler and Aj look like shit, by putting mud all over them.

See here's the thing, no heels are going to be Cena's equal unless they're a star the size of Lesnar. Cena is the main attraction. He's what people pay to see. Dolph Ziggler isn't Cena's equal; he was Cena's rival sure, but he was never his equal, just as most heels are never their rivals equal. That's what makes their victories so much more devious. Also, in a year or two, are people going to remember a PPV main event win or are they going to recall several uneventful matches on Raw from the start of 2013?

in a year or two, people will remember that ppv as the heel turn of Aj, not the victory of dolph ziggler.. the commentators really did a bad job of hyping ziggler's big win.. it was just bad execution. and this is the reason why there are very few top heels. the top 5 heels in wwe currently FULL TIME are : ryback, alberto del rio, mark henry, dean ambrose (although he is a mid carder, LOL, and hes still a top heel, shows the lack of star poweri n wwe), and probably big show.. and most of them dont have much credibility to begin with, thanks to horrible booking.

That's right, Triple H, whose record against Orton in big-time matches reads something like 10-4 and didn't lose to him until after he'd beaten him in the first place. He did a real good job putting Orton over. Prior to Cena’s injury in 2007, Orton was starting to get that big push to the WWE title. He lost the first, highly competitive, encounter with Cena. He then proceeded to get under John's skin and provoke him into a DQ loss at the following show. Then he took him out of action. He dropped him with an RKO and sent him packing, forcing him to drop the WWE Championship. I'd call that a big time case of going over someone.

that injury didnt do anything for Randy orton anyways. randy orton was ALREADY a main eventer.. he defeated HBK, rvd, ric flair, undertaker, pretty much a shitload of legends that arent here today.. he even dominated triple h at the next ppv, john cena wouldnt do any favors for him to be honest. those losses to triple h were made up when randy orton dominated triple h.

Cena lost to JBL in their final encounter....putting JBL over and setting him up for a title challenge against CM Punk at SummerSlam 2008. Cena gave lost to Triple H on PPV when there was no other stars on Raw for Triple H to beat because he'd already done so. Cena gave Triple H a rub and helped give his title reign further credibility. Shawn Michaels beat Cena at the end of a classic, classic match in London. He had Shawn go over him 1-2-3 in a highly competitive encounter that made both men look outstanding. If the Rock didn't have Cena to play off against then do you think his return would've been as newsworthy? If Rock didn't have John Cena to battle and encounter and if Cena didn't allow Rock to pin him at WrestleMania XXVIII do you think we would have seen WWE make the same huge money off of WrestleMania 29? No. Cena gave Rock's return the credibility it needed and he put Dwayne over at Mania 28.

are u forgetting a few things? Jbl was established by his title reign on smackdown, the rock was in the attitude era, he made a name for himself there. shawn michaels was here way before cena's time.. how are u saying that cena elevated them all to main event status? WHAT HAVE U BEEN waTching u idiot?

Umaga's undefeated streak consisted of feuds with a 60 year old Ric Flair, Kane in the midst of his jobber to the stars world tour and that titan Eugene. Cena's recurring destruction at the hands of Umaga in both their title matches as well as the build to the matches sets Umaga up as a monster not only for the programme, but for the future. It took a roll-up and attempted murder essentially to beat Umaga. He made Umaga look like a freak of nature that he could barely stop.

umaga's undefeated streak was credible until cena ended it... cena had no right to end it, he already had enough dragon slaying matches..

I think I just saw a pig fly...

dont be surprised, i am not ignorant.

Cena lost to Khali and allowed Khali to look very capable against him. He also managed to make Khali look like a credible in-ring performer. Very few people can do that. Cena managed it.

UNDERTAKER did, big show did, kane did.. cena beat khali like 2 times in a row CLEAN.. how was that putting over? hardly.

Ryback pinned Cena in the first fall of their match at Payback. He pinned him clean and Cena didn't pin him or make him submit once. Ryback also didn't run. When did he run? When he got jumped in London after dealing with The Shield? Maybe, but he came back the next week and beat Cena down. He was exceedingly close to beating Cena at Extreme Rules. Again, Cena made Ryback look capable, credible and made him appear to be a major threat.

Like anybody cares about a three stages of hell match. its the equivalent of saying randy orton beat john cena 10+ clean because of that ironman match.. of course victories dont count on series of matches like that.. dont be so stupid. ryback turned 360 during his heel turn. went from being a complete monster to a complete chicken. dont deny it, u know it, u even admitted "thats what heels supposed to do"

Triple H did indeed put over Dave Batista, but when Batista fought Cena in their first ever encounter in a match that was pretty darn huge, was it Cena, the face of the company who went over, or Batista, the clear number two. Well lookie here folks. Batista done pinned Cena clean in the clash of the titans style bout.

yeah, batista beat cena, but cena got his win back because cena uses his selfish backstage power to get them back.. he cant let ANYBODY get the last laugh against him.. cena beat batista 3 ppvs in a row CLEAN. how does that make him look good, at all? how does that help out batista's legacy? batista will go down as the man who can't lay a finger on john cena..

As for your little thing about Triple H putting over Shawn Michaels and Edge, please I'd love to see some evidence of this...

he jobbed to HBK several times and edge got the last laugh against him in a survivor series match. i think it was edge vs triple h vs vladimir kozlov. edge pinned HHH clean. i would consider it clean because jeff hardy was the interferer, but he wasnt on anybodys side, he just started attacking everybody.