How long will John Cena's reign last?

[CmPunker]

No, he didn't. The two of them faced off in a grudge match, at Extreme Rules 2012. CM Punk defended the WWE Title against Chris Jericho in the match before.

What is your point? i know they faced off before.. lesnar lost some of his momentum. doesnt matter how protected he was beacuse casuals usually look at the result, not how their opponent faired.

The only time Cena and Lesnar met for the WWE Title was at Backlash 2003, and Lesnar beat him.

They wanted to give cena his win back because they love to kiss his ass. they dont want anybody to win a feud against him or get the last laugh.

To answer the question, there was a time I would have said Wrestlemania 30, and argued hard for it. The fact is, like it or not, John Cena is the top guy in the company. Like it or not, you can't just have anyone come in and beat Cena for the title. So having Cena go through the Mark Henry's, Randy Orton's and Sheamus' of the world is a logical thing. Why? Because Cena has proved time and again that he's better then them. In the past, it's taken a herculean effort to take the title off of Cena. Edge cashing in Money In The Bank. Big Show chokeslamming him through a spotlight. Del Rio locking him outside of the Hell In A Cell structure. And CM Punk in his hometown, and once again at Summerslam.

Cena doesnt deserve the superman treatment. u know it is not helping his position? cena isnt going to be around forever, doesnt matter how talented he is because he is not the future. he is 35 years old for gods sake, hardly the future of the company. he should be building up younger stars instead.

and why the fuck would they put cena in a rematch against lesnar? are u delusional? what a waste of a match man.. it wouldnt draw as much as cena vs undertaker or rock vs brock, so from a business perspective, doesnt really make sense. also dont wanna see brock lose credibility once again.

As Cena once said it, there's only one man who's been his equal, and that's been CM Punk. I could have seen them having a match at Summerslam, but it's obvious Punk will be tied up with Lesnar. Speaking of Lesnar, logic would dictate that at some point, he would be due a championship match himself. But with his limited dates, and a certain date with Punk at Summerslam, I'd say he's out of the picture as well.

how is cm punk his equal? they never let punk get a clean win against cena.. while cena had a clean win over punk. hardly "equals"

So why am I sticking with Summerslam? Because of one Daniel Bryan. In my opinion, it's now or never for Bryan. I don't know if they're going to continue on the "weakest link" angle, but it would be excellent if Bryan did so, won Money In The Bank, then announced he was cashing in at Summerslam, to prove once and for all he's not the Weakest Link. What better way to do it then by defeating the WWE Champion, one John Cena?

U actually have faith in letting wwe build up daniel bryan? no chance. he is just another person for cena to steamroll over because no way in hell are they going to let some midget go over their face of the company. 0.00001 percent chance of winning clean. and 3% chance of winning with a controversial finish. 97% chance of cena winning , clean or not.

WWE has done a fantastic job of building Daniel Bryan up as a top superstar, with his submission victory over Randy Orton two weeks ago on Raw being the best example. It's time to go the entire way, with a MITB win, and a victory over John Cena at Summerslam. I don't anticipate a long reign, and Cena will likely regain the title from him.

Unless, like CM Punk, John Cena finds himself with a second form of kryptonite in Daniel Bryan.

Lets see what happens. i think u put too much faith and hope in wwe, u are going to get ur hopes down. many times wwe has let me hope down in the past.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

In the 11 years the World Heavyweight Championship has existed, I feel it has had better matches held for it and better storylines written around it. It hasn't been traded back and forth between John Cena and Randy Orton a thousand times, and in general it's held more often by superstars who have actually earned a title reign, not been hand-picked by Vince.

Really now? Let's see. You give me Benoit/HHH/HBK (Wrestlemania 20), Batista/HHH (Vengeance 2005) and I'll raise you with Benoit/Angle (Royal Rumble 2003), John Cena/JBL (Judgment Day 2005), Cena/HBK (WM 23), Cena/Punk (MITB 2011 and 02/25/2013 RAW).

Since I assume your choice of the word "hand-picked" is related to Cena, enlighten me as to how was he hand-picked along with other wrestlers who have held the WWE Title and tell me of these guys who have earned holding the WHC title. I'm intrigued.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I saw what you wrote on my rep page. you wrote, "jesus christ, you are a fucking moron".

let me provide proof so you will not tihnk that i am a moron.. first of all, john cena is the top star of the company and he certainly loves to kiss vince mcmahon's fucking ass and there is a lot of proof..

they turned ryback heel, fed him to cena.

they turned big show heel, fed him to cena.

they turned cm punk heel right when they started feuding with cena.

they turned kane heel to feud with cena, fed him to cena too.

i have a feeling that they are going to have RVD win MITB and then give cena his win back. wwe always wants to give cena the last win so he can win every feud possible.. no way, there is no fucking way that wwe will let another person be better than cena in ANY way. this is why i think that cena will surpass punk's reign, because if punk's reign lasted longer than cena, wwe will think that WE think that punk is better.. and no way in fucking hell will somebody surpass the golden boy john cena. no way@! john cena will overcome all the odds, no matter what. he took out the shield, took out the nexus, took out every possible member of the fucking roster. who hasnt he beaten? undertaker? because they are saving him for wrestlemania.. of course cena is a top star, but there are just way to many "dragon slaying" feuds.

his character is so corny, its all about overcoming the odds shit. we have been dealing with this for 8 years. overcoming the odds, never give up, typical superman stuff. NO change in his character for fucking 8 years!!! come on man, at least stone cold and the rock had interesting characters. they were both anti heros and very unique gimmicks. i am just saying that john cena should lose cleanly more often. when was the last time he lost cleanly? i think that was to the rock at last wrestlemania, and the rock is not even a full time superstar. what a waste of a clean win, huh? wwe has simply no logic.

Here we go again with the losing clean argument. Waaaaah, why can't he lose clean more often? Newsflash: Top faces don't lose clean that often. Newsflash II: Heels cheat to win.

How many times did Austin lose clean? How many times did Hogan lose clean? Once you figure it out, you'll realize that Cena has lost clean more times than you think. Since you're never going to figure it out, I'll save you the trouble. Cena has lost clean to Orton, Batista, HHH, HBK, Khali, Punk, Big Show, etc.

 

[CmPunker]

Here we go again with the losing clean argument. Waaaaah, why can't he lose clean more often? Newsflash: Top faces don't lose clean that often. Newsflash II: Heels cheat to win.

How many times did Austin lose clean? How many times did Hogan lose clean? Once you figure it out, you'll realize that Cena has lost clean more times than you think. Since you're never going to figure it out, I'll save you the trouble. Cena has lost clean to Orton, Batista, HHH, HBK, Khali, Punk, Big Show, etc.

Top stars dont lose clean, but john cena should be an exception because he is so stale. everybody wants him to lose clean to newer stars..

ok i remember cena losing clean to batista, hbk,hhh . but when in the world did he lose clean to khali, punk, orton and big show lol? cm punk never beat him clean, if u consider interference from vince mcmahon and a faulty referee clean, then ur wrong. no way in hell would khali beat cena clean, if my memory serves right, cena beat khali 3 times in a row and khali didnt even go over once. big show may have beaten cena before he was a top star, but it didnt matter back then. he never beat him when cena became a top star. orton never beat cena clean.. are u counting an ironman match? because that doesnt count. in the end, cena won the match , so it wasnt really clean if its an ironmanm atch.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Top stars dont lose clean, but john cena should be an exception because he is so stale. everybody wants him to lose clean to newer stars..

Judging by the money he makes, I'd say you're emphatically, 100% wrong on this.

ok i remember cena losing clean to batista, hbk,hhh . but when in the world did he lose clean to khali, punk, orton and big show lol? cm punk never beat him clean, if u consider interference from vince mcmahon and a faulty referee clean, then ur wrong. no way in hell would khali beat cena clean, if my memory serves right, cena beat khali 3 times in a row and khali didnt even go over once. big show may have beaten cena before he was a top star, but it didnt matter back then. he never beat him when cena became a top star. orton never beat cena clean.. are u counting an ironman match? because that doesnt count. in the end, cena won the match , so it wasnt really clean if its an ironmanm atch.

Orton beat him clean in a Hell in a Cell Match and a Table match, I recall both of those.



Khali wins by DQ but isn't even phased by the chairshot and still levels Cena afterwards. Not exactly a clean win but he was put over like crazy here.

 

[CmPunker]

Judging by the money he makes, I'd say you're emphatically, 100% wrong on this.

Are you fucking serious? Do you hear the amount of boos that john cena gets? that right there, is x pac heat. it isnt we want to see this guy get his ass kicked type of heat. it is "get the fuck off my tv screen" type of heat.

Orton beat him clean in a Hell in a Cell Match and a Table match, I recall both of those.

Hell in a cell? randy orton fucking tapped out to john cena, but the referee was down.. then john cena went to the ref and randy orton took advantage of the distraction. hardly a clean win..

the tables match, there was a shitload of controversy and interference. fucking nexus, sheamus, edge, chris jericho interfered. i know they attacked both, but they MOSTLY attacked cena. it caused a lot of damage.

for the love of god, do some god damn fucking research before posting. dont be ignorant and dont think u know more than me.

Khali wins by DQ but isn't even phased by the chairshot and still levels Cena afterwards. Not exactly a clean win but he was put over like crazy here.

A dq win and beating cena up is called getting put over? yeah right.. nobody takes pride in a fucking DQ win, it doesnt help build credibility, it doesnt get u over. put over like crazy here? then what? cena ruined his momentum by beating him 2 ppvs in a row? stop being so ignorant and delusional, khali was not put over by john cena. he didnt ev en pin cena. dq wins dont mean shit man. it was also a 2vs1 disadvantage. umaga's manager and khali vs john cena. 2 vs 1.. how was that "put over"?

 

[Poop Master Flex]

First off who cares if Cena doesn't lose clean often or at all, he's the face of the company. Austin didn't lose clean much either, or Hogan, or a hundred other top babyfaces throughout wrestlings history.

With that said I hope that guy is Daniel Bryan. He's on fire right now, he's been over for a very long time and has proven he can hang in the main event with anyone at this point in time. Also since Daniel Bryan is a face and I don't want him to turn heel I hope that Cena can lose this one clean. A top face losing to a future top face cleanly is a good way to go about it. Doesn't mean Cena has to step down yet but I don't think it would hurt if he lost and did something else for a while that doesn't involve him chasing the title so Bryan can have his moment in the sun. It doesn't even have to be 100% cut and dry clean but I feel at the end of the feud Bryan should get the better of Cena.

I don't have anything against Cena but I will say 8 years as top guy is a long ass time and I think its amazing Cena can stay on top for that long especially in this day and age but I wouldn't be against a change up for a bit. Like I said Cena doesn't have to leave but taking a step back wouldn't hurt either. If Bryan doesn't work out then get the title off of him and Cena can win it back. Worst case scenario Cena is back of top for a while and at the very least Daniel Bryan is a main eventer for life, sounds like a win win to me.

 

[CmPunker]

First off who cares if Cena doesn't lose clean often or at all, he's the face of the company. Austin didn't lose clean much either, or Hogan, or a hundred other top babyfaces throughout wrestlings history.

Thats because i could deal with rock and austin. they were badasses, they werent the typical cookie cutter, pandering to crowd, cheesy smile babyfaces. they were so fucking unique. john cena is different, u can hear the amount of boos he gets, maybe if he had a character change, then i could handle him.

With that said I hope that guy is Daniel Bryan. He's on fire right now, he's been over for a very long time and has proven he can hang in the main event with anyone at this point in time. Also since Daniel Bryan is a face and I don't want him to turn heel I hope that Cena can lose this one clean. A top face losing to a future top face cleanly is a good way to go about it. Doesn't mean Cena has to step down yet but I don't think it would hurt if he lost and did something else for a while that doesn't involve him chasing the title so Bryan can have his moment in the sun. It doesn't even have to be 100% cut and dry clean but I feel at the end of the feud Bryan should get the better of Cena.

God damn, some people just haev high hopes and put too much faith in wwe creative. im warning u now to beware. remember umaga and the great khali? both were monsters. umagu had a very long undefeated streak, only to be fed by cena. khali beat undertaker clean for gods sake, then he was fed to cena. daniel bryan made orton tap out, guess whats going to happen next. just face it, bryan is just another person for cena to steamroll over. he will have a nice feud, but he will lose to cena every single time. woah, ur hoping for bryan to beat cena CLEAN? no chance in fucking hell man! no chance!!!! fucking 0.000001 percent chance that bryan will beat cena clean. u are so delusional and smarkish. hey, i want bryan to win clean also, but sadly its not going to happen. because i accepted it and i learned to deal with cena. i just skip through his segments.

I don't have anything against Cena but I will say 8 years as top guy is a long ass time and I think its amazing Cena can stay on top for that long especially in this day and age but I wouldn't be against a change up for a bit. Like I said Cena doesn't have to leave but taking a step back wouldn't hurt either. If Bryan doesn't work out then get the title off of him and Cena can win it back. Worst case scenario Cena is back of top for a while and at the very least Daniel Bryan is a main eventer for life, sounds like a win win to me.

8 years with a stale gimmick, u call that amazing? look at the amount of boos he gets, those arent good boos, those are "get the fuck off my tv" boos. yeah, i believe taking a step back wont hurt, but appearantly wwe creative doesnt think so, because they are fucking monkeys and dont have creativity. who the fuck are they hiring? why do they argue so much between each other AND vince? just make up ur fucking mind man. no.. worst case scenario is cena wins all the matches and makes daniel bryan look weak, then bryan loses most of his momentum and never gains it back. then he is back to upper mid card. thats the worst case scenario. best case scenario is bryan beats cena dirty, then he goes into the main event for a while, then hes back to the upper mid card.

 

[Da Solo]

To be honest, I am really deadset on the notion that Henry will take the title at MiTB. Cena really has no reason to hold onto it other than possibly putting over Bryan with a clean loss, but let's be honest, that isn't happening (last person I remember Cena giving a title off cleanly to was Sheamus, and there is a whole 'nother conversation concerning that one). Plus, it was pretty clear that Henry was in for something big before taking off Payback, even something along the lines of a WWE title run. He's been on a roll like no other and has served faithfully in the WWE, so I can see Henry winning and then dropping it to Bryan in soem multi-man match so that Cena doesn't have to.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Are you fucking serious? Do you hear the amount of boos that john cena gets? that right there, is x pac heat. it isnt we want to see this guy get his ass kicked type of heat. it is "get the fuck off my tv screen" type of heat.

Uh huh. So that's why WWE is in financial peril. Oh, you mean they're actually making money hand over fist and John Cena is still their top draw and merchandise seller? Well how does that add up?

The boos are more audible because they are the grown men booing, they have louder voices than the women and children. Of course they, like you, hate Cena. He's a perfect example of what a man can do when he finally gets of his mom's basement. The majority of most crowds still cheer Cena.

He's still by far their top earner and has been for almost a decade. The numbers don't support what the sad marks in the crowd are saying. Probably because those are the same guys who stream every PPV instead of buying it.

 

[CmPunker]

Uh huh. So that's why WWE is in financial peril. Oh, you mean they're actually making money hand over fist and John Cena is still their top draw and merchandise seller? Well how does that add up?

The boos are more audible because they are the grown men booing, they have louder voices than the women and children. Of course they, like you, hate Cena. He's a perfect example of what a man can do when he finally gets of his mom's basement. The majority of most crowds still cheer Cena.

He's still by far their top earner and has been for almost a decade. The numbers don't support what the sad marks in the crowd are saying. Probably because those are the same guys who stream every PPV instead of buying it.

yes, look at the ratings right now.. the average rating this year is a fucking 2.9.. they went from an average of 3.2 to a 2.9.. what the fuck? what was different about this year than last year? oh yeah, john cena is the wwe champion. fucking cena. u ever notice the decline in ratings over the past couple of years? its because cena is getting staler and staler as the yaer goes on, people are getting sick of him. he wasnt the draw he used to be in 2006-2008. every win that they give him does not matter because he is already an established star, why dont u put ur efforts into other stars?

no, i disagree. i think women and children have louder voices and its easier for them to yell because of their voices. but then again it doesnt matter, we are not doctors. most grown men hate cena anyways. cena can't carry a feud with younger stars, like dolph ziggler. all he does is smile and never take things seriuosly. even when his own GIRLFRIENd betrayed him, he still continued to smile. if the top star wont take things seriously, why should the crowd?

i love how u ignore all my statements when i called u out on cena losing clean. i proved u wrong and clearly u are embarassed, so u dont talk about it, what the fuck? and wwe will never be in trouble financially because they are wwe. they can put a fucking mid carder like cody rhodes in the main event and they will still be making profit, just not as much. so ur argument about financial peril is irrelevant.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

First off who cares if Cena doesn't lose clean often or at all, he's the face of the company. Austin didn't lose clean much either, or Hogan, or a hundred other top babyfaces throughout wrestlings history.

Thats because i could deal with rock and austin. they were badasses, they werent the typical cookie cutter, pandering to crowd, cheesy smile babyfaces. they were so fucking unique. john cena is different, u can hear the amount of boos he gets, maybe if he had a character change, then i could handle him.


God damn, some people just haev high hopes and put too much faith in wwe creative. im warning u now to beware. remember umaga and the great khali? both were monsters. umagu had a very long undefeated streak, only to be fed by cena. khali beat undertaker clean for gods sake, then he was fed to cena. daniel bryan made orton tap out, guess whats going to happen next. just face it, bryan is just another person for cena to steamroll over. he will have a nice feud, but he will lose to cena every single time. woah, ur hoping for bryan to beat cena CLEAN? no chance in fucking hell man! no chance!!!! fucking 0.000001 percent chance that bryan will beat cena clean. u are so delusional and smarkish. hey, i want bryan to win clean also, but sadly its not going to happen. because i accepted it and i learned to deal with cena. i just skip through his segments.


8 years with a stale gimmick, u call that amazing? look at the amount of boos he gets, those arent good boos, those are "get the fuck off my tv" boos. yeah, i believe taking a step back wont hurt, but appearantly wwe creative doesnt think so, because they are fucking monkeys and dont have creativity. who the fuck are they hiring? why do they argue so much between each other AND vince? just make up ur fucking mind man. no.. worst case scenario is cena wins all the matches and makes daniel bryan look weak, then bryan loses most of his momentum and never gains it back. then he is back to upper mid card. thats the worst case scenario. best case scenario is bryan beats cena dirty, then he goes into the main event for a while, then hes back to the upper mid card.

I understand you like Rock and Austin and don't like Cena but the fact is a lot of people do and pay their money to see Cena and buy their merchandise, I don't but Cena makes WWE a buttload of money, plain and simple. I know he isn't at Austin levels or anything but I'm sure WWE is satisfied with what he does bring in. I get you don't like Cena, I get that but don't let personal feelings get in the way of sound business logic. Cena isn't my favorite either but that shouldn't suggest he doesn't deserve his spot.

I also have little to no faith in WWE creative and have said so in the past, I hate it actually. I think their storylines are way too repetitive, their characters are mostly 1 dimensional and uninteresting and although the can often start stories strong, they usually fizzle a lot quicker than they should.

One thing I will say is they have done right by Daniel Bryan for the most part. He's been my favorite for over a year now and in that time although I didn't like everything I liked the majority of it and would call it a success up to this point. At Summerslam I may be mad but I will hope for the best until then. Wrestling fans these days are split into 2 sections, IWC and non IWC. Non IWC just watch and enjoy it for what it is, IWC is smart to the business but often have no clue what wrestling really is and lack basic wrestling psychology, they just want attitude era and fancy moves. Note I'm not saying anyone is like this particularly but I will say a lot of them are.

All I know is this. I currently watch WWE and will continue until there is no redeeming qualities on the program left. If I only like Bryan I will watch Bryan and watch something else when he's not on.

Currently there is few things in wrestling I can get into,if those things disappear and aren't replaced by something else I will stop until the problem is rectified, if not I guess I'm watching old wrestling tapes I enjoy and will come on here to talk about HIMYM or something.

If you have no faith in WWE then why watch it? Or turn the channel when Cena is on? If ratings and merchandise for Cena plummet he won't be on top. If someone proves to make WWE more money than Cena on a consistent basis he won't be on top. If he makes the most money the he's on top, that's why he's still on top.

 

[newwaveknight]

Am I REALLY reading another Cena/WWE Conspiracy Theory thread? Fine, out of morbid curiosity I will follow this train wreck.

First of all, I'm not sure HOW people are being fed to Cena, since CM Punk, Sheamus, The Miz, Ryback, hell even Zack Ryder's brief flash in the pan, can all attribute their success to feuding with Cena. Do you really think anyone would have given two flying fuck how many "pipe bombs" Punk dropped if he was doing it on the mid-card, where he still would be if it weren't for his feud with Cena?

Cena is pushed because he has larger-than-life popularity. Ask 10 random people who have never seen wrestling in their life to name a current wrestler, and most of them will say John Cena.

Now, here comes the "He's only popular because kids like him" bit.

This just in: Kids are the main people buying merchandise at the shows!

I will continue to follow this thread, simply because a lot of "Cena is overpushed" or "The WWE only cares about pushing Cena" threads turn (every once in a while) into "bring back the Attitude era" threads, and I will need to prevent that from happening.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Are you fucking serious? Do you hear the amount of boos that john cena gets? that right there, is x pac heat. it isnt we want to see this guy get his ass kicked type of heat. it is "get the fuck off my tv screen" type of heat.



Hell in a cell? randy orton fucking tapped out to john cena, but the referee was down.. then john cena went to the ref and randy orton took advantage of the distraction. hardly a clean win..

the tables match, there was a shitload of controversy and interference. fucking nexus, sheamus, edge, chris jericho interfered. i know they attacked both, but they MOSTLY attacked cena. it caused a lot of damage.

for the love of god, do some god damn fucking research before posting. dont be ignorant and dont think u know more than me.



A dq win and beating cena up is called getting put over? yeah right.. nobody takes pride in a fucking DQ win, it doesnt help build credibility, it doesnt get u over. put over like crazy here? then what? cena ruined his momentum by beating him 2 ppvs in a row? stop being so ignorant and delusional, khali was not put over by john cena. he didnt ev en pin cena. dq wins dont mean shit man. it was also a 2vs1 disadvantage. umaga's manager and khali vs john cena. 2 vs 1.. how was that "put over"?

What did Khali do after he got a clean win over the Undertaker in 2006? Absolutely nothing.

What did Khali do after he LOST in consecutive PPV's against Cena? He went on to win the World Heavyweight Championship.

He did better after losing to Cena than even beating the Undertaker.

 

[CmPunker]

What did Khali do after he got a clean win over the Undertaker in 2006? Absolutely nothing.

What did Khali do after he LOST in consecutive PPV's against Cena? He went on to win the World Heavyweight Championship.

He did better after losing to Cena than even beating the Undertaker.

What. after he beat the undertaker, he decimated rey mysterio, but didnt win the championship, isntead he won the match by dq. then he went to raw and was fed to cena, then i guess there was a lack of star power and/or top stars got injured on smackdown, so they drafted him back to smackdown to win the championship.. it wasnt cena that put him over, he was just at the right place at the right time.

 

[#HELLNO]

I really hope that it isn't for much longer as I am already sick of seeing him come out every other week and cut the same god damn promo that he used over a year ago. 'It is my time for redemption and nobody can stop me' seriously WWE Creative, Cena, McMahon or whoever is in charge of his character at this moment in time needs to seriously change what they write.

As for seeing how many days longer I think this will go, I believe that only until SummerSlam. WWE has been so heavily pushing on Daniel Bryan for the last while, I just believe that this will finally be his time to capture the 'NEW' Big Gold Belt. What I see happening is, DB wins the MitB and then challenges Cena to a match at SummerSlam (obviously this means he is cashing in), this will keep DB a face whilst facing Cena and will make Cena 'respect' him (because he is following in his footsteps), then DB will cheat to win the match and finally, at long last, become a Heel once more.

 

[newwaveknight]

What I see happening is, DB wins the MitB and then challenges Cena to a match at SummerSlam (obviously this means he is cashing in), this will keep DB a face whilst facing Cena and will make Cena 'respect' him (because he is following in his footsteps), then DB will cheat to win the match and finally, at long last, become a Heel once more.

I REALLY hope they don't have Daniel Bryan/t go heel again. Don't they remember how bad that went last time? It only made the fans like him more. Why not let him be the new top babyface for the company for a little bit.

Here's my main question about that scenario: Will the IWC (and I usually NEVER criticize my beloved IWC) watch Daniel Bryan/t do nothing in his match but YES! kick, the surfboard stretch, and the YES! lock, then condemn Cena for having a limited move set?

Don't get me wrong, ROH and WWE mid-card Daniel Bryan/t showed some impressive shit. But main-event DB pretty much just does the YES! kick to keep the chant going. Like I've said in the past: In the ring, Daniel Bryan/t can be a great entertainer or a great wrestler, but he can't be both.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I REALLY hope they don't have Daniel Bryan/t go heel again. Don't they remember how bad that went last time? It only made the fans like him more. Why not let him be the new top babyface for the company for a little bit.

Here's my main question about that scenario: Will the IWC (and I usually NEVER criticize my beloved IWC) watch Daniel Bryan/t do nothing in his match but YES! kick, the surfboard stretch, and the YES! lock, then condemn Cena for having a limited move set?

Don't get me wrong, ROH and WWE mid-card Daniel Bryan/t showed some impressive shit. But main-event DB pretty much just does the YES! kick to keep the chant going. Like I've said in the past: In the ring, Daniel Bryan/t can be a great entertainer or a great wrestler, but he can't be both.

If you have ever criticized Cena for having a limited moveset, you're stupid person. I'f you've ever criticized Daniel Bryan for having a limited moveset, you're a stupid person. No, I' m not saying you're stupid for having an opinion that differs from mine, I'm saying that because if you do believe these things, you lack basic common sense.

Either you people actually follow those "Do No Try This At Home" campaigns or you just don't realize how easy it is to do wrestling moves, but it's not really a skill. Anyone can do wrestling moves. There isn't anything being done in the ring that millions of little kids couldn't do in their living rooms. What's my point, you may ask? Well if these kids can do anything in that ring that professionals can do, do you really think Cena only performs his select moves because he can't perform any other ones? Is Daniel Bryan incapable of doing as many moves as he used to in ROH? Of course not. To even suggest such a thing is stupid (.)

The reason they refrain from just going out there and doing a bunch of wrestling moves? The majority of people don't care about the wrestling moves. They want the suspense, they want the wrestlers t make them care about what's going on in the ring. The point of wrestling is to work the crowd and when Daniel Bryan hits his offense, he uses a select sequence of moves that he's put together over the course of his career which he knows will work to get the crowd to pop for him. The fast paced sequences, the YES! kicks, the imaginative submissions, etc. Those are the moves that got him over in the first place.

I read another one of your posts here recently and you said something along the lines of not having seen any PPVs in a while. So basically, you're shitting on Daniel for having formulaic matches every week on free TV. You haven't even see the matches he's had on PPV, where you're supposed to turn it up. So basically, you're talking out of your ass, aren't you?

Your last line sums it up nicely.

Like I've said in the past: In the ring, Daniel Bryan/t can be a great entertainer or a great wrestler, but he can't be both.

If you're not a great entertainer, you're not a great wrestler. The point of wrestling is to entertain.

 

[newwaveknight]

If you have ever criticized Cena for having a limited moveset, you're stupid person. I'f you've ever criticized Daniel Bryan for having a limited moveset, you're a stupid person. No, I' m not saying you're stupid for having an opinion that differs from mine, I'm saying that because if you do believe these things, you lack basic common sense.

Whoah, pump the brakes there. I wasn't saying that it was my opinion that he OR Cena have a limited moveset. Maybe I didn't specify what I was getting at, and for that I apologize.

As a fellow member of the IWC, I'm sure that you've come across the occasional "Cena only haz duh five moves of doom" bit. Maybe I've seen it more frequently than you, so that's just me.

What I am attacking it the double-standard held against Cena for doing what most workers do.

And you can be a great wrestler without being a great entertainer. I mean wrestler in a pure, in-ring action only sense. If being a great wrestler meant being a great entertainer, then ALL of those ROH guys who are putting on indy-riffic matches would be main-eventing the WWE. If being a great entertainer meant being a great wrestler, I wouldn't see this "Cen-uh on-luh has duh five moves of doom" nonsense.

So, maybe as for a little clarification next time before you go on an all-out offensive like that next time? Thanks, <3ShieldGirl<3.

 

[LSN80]

What is your point? i know they faced off before....

My point?

in addition. i cannot see ANYBODy taking the title off of cena right now. not a single person is capable.. brock lesnar already failed and i cant see them having a rematch for some reasno..

When did Lesnar fail to take the WWE Title off of John Cena? As I said before, it was a grudge match between the two, that was my point. The only time they faced off for the WWE Championship was in 2003, which Lesnar won.

lesnar lost some of his momentum. doesnt matter how protected he was beacuse casuals usually look at the result, not how their opponent faired.

It's not casuals that order PPV's, or come to message boards to discuss wrestling, in general So when people see Brock Lesnar, who hadn't wrestled in 8 years, beat down John Cena for 20 minutes and lose because of a desperation shot from John Cena, he loses nothing.

They wanted to give cena his win back because they love to kiss his ass.

No, they gave the full-time wrestler, the face of the company, the win over the man who hadn't wrestled a match in 8 years. For Cena to lose to part-timers on back to back PPV's woud have been asinine booking for the face of the company.

they dont want anybody to win a feud against him or get the last laugh.

CM Punk won his feud against John Cena in 2011. Alberto Del Rio won the feud against Cena in 2011. Punk again came out with the title despite Cena getting 4 shots at it in single's matches or triple threats in 2012. Dolph Ziggler won the finale of their series in their ladder match at TLC 2012.

And no, I don't care how, he lost them. Should the face of the company lose all of his feuds, and do so clean? You don't like him as face of the company, that's apparent, but he is, and in being so, their top face, he shouldn't lose clean often.

Cena doesnt deserve the superman treatment. u know it is not helping his position? cena isnt going to be around forever, doesnt matter how talented he is because he is not the future. he is 35 years old for gods sake, hardly the future of the company. he should be building up younger stars instead.

You mistake "building up" younger stars for "losing to". When a younger or newer star is put into a feud with Cena, it does help build them up.

and why the fuck would they put cena in a rematch against lesnar?
are u delusional? what a waste of a match man.. it wouldnt draw as much as cena vs undertaker or rock vs brock, so from a business perspective, doesnt really make sense. also dont wanna see brock lose credibility once again.

1. Their match at Extreme Rules was a very good one.
2. Lesnar would be a legitimate threat to take the title from Cena.
3. I never mentioned Cena vs. Lesnar at Wrestlemania, did I, so what do Rock vs. Brock or Cena vs. Undertaker have to do with it?
4. Lesnar didn't lose credibility the first time, as he was portrayed as a beast against Cena. Losing doesn't equal losing credibility, and like it or not, a heel who hasn't wrestled for 8 years shouldn't beat the full-time face of the company.

how is cm punk his equal? they never let punk get a clean win against cena.. while cena had a clean win over punk. hardly "equals"

1. Money In The Bank 2011 was clean as a sheet. Noone touched or interfered with Cena.
2. Summerslam 2011, Cena was pinned after a GTS from Punk. He got his foot on the rope, but HHH didn't see it. It wasn't a cheap or dirty win, Punk won because he hit a move on Cena that got him a 3 count.

U actually have faith in letting wwe build up daniel bryan? no chance.

This is normally the point where I'd spout off useless cliches such as 'Wait until we see what happens' or 'Time will tell', but I'll simply say 'I do'. They've been building Bryan up, giving him the first pinfall in a six-man against The Shield, having him make Orton tap in the main event of Raw two weeks ago, and using him in one of the top storylines in the company for months now.

They've already 'built up' Daniel Bryan, in a major way.

he is just another person for cena to steamroll over because no way in hell are they going to let some midget go over their face of the company. 0.00001 percent chance of winning clean. and 3% chance of winning with a controversial finish. 97% chance of cena winning , clean or not.

Where did you get these statistics from? Please be sure to show your work as well if you want credit.

Lets see what happens. i think u put too much faith and hope in wwe, u are going to get ur hopes down. many times wwe has let me hope down in the past.

There's no chance in me getting 'let down' by wrestling, because while I'm passionate about it, it doesn't affect or dictate my mood. If I'm wrong, and Bryan loses to Cena, I'm fine with Cena's reign continuing. If Bryan wins, I'm good with that as well.

I'm a fan of both men, and enjoy seeing them perform. I know they'll have a heckuva match, and while I think Bryan will be the guy, I won't be surprised, disappointed, or let down if I'm wrong.

then he went to raw and was fed to cena.

I'm not sure how Khali was "fed to Cena", as he got a pinfall victory over him on Saturday Night's Main Event in a non-title match just 8 days before their Judgment Day match.

And before you get on your sopbox about how Cena won the feud, you do realize how asinine it would be to have a non-English speaking WWE Champion on their flagship Monday Night Raw show, correct?

then i guess there was a lack of star power and/or top stars got injured on smackdown.

They had the man you claimed to be the bigger draw then Cena, Dave Bautista, and they went with Khali over him as Smackdown's World champion.

so they drafted him back to smackdown to win the championship..

In a battle royal after Edge forfeited the title due to injury....

It wasnt Cena that put him over.

1. Again, Cena did put him over, 1-2-3, on Saturday Night's Main Event.
2. When they faced off at both Judgment Day and One Night Stand, they main-evented both shows. Are you aware of how many other PPV's Khali main-evented otherwise? None.

Again, you don't have to beat someone, especially with a heel going against the face of the company, to be put over. Feuding Cena brought Khali into main-event status, and following that, he quickly won the World Title.

If you don't believe the two are related, well, you're wrong.

 

[CmPunker]

My point?

What the fuck are you talking about?

When did Lesnar fail to take the WWE Title off of John Cena? As I said before, it was a grudge match between the two, that was my point. The only time they faced off for the WWE Championship was in 2003, which Lesnar won.

I know lesnar won in 2003. wwe wanted to give john cena his win back because nobody can be seen as having the last laugh or winning a feud against cena. it can't happen because vince loves cena so much.

It's not casuals that order PPV's, or come to message boards to discuss wrestling, in general So when people see Brock Lesnar, who hadn't wrestled in 8 years, beat down John Cena for 20 minutes and lose because of a desperation shot from John Cena, he loses nothing.

1. a lot of people didn't watch the ppv, therefore they dont know that lesnar dominated most of the match.
2.casuals usually remember the result of the match, not how their opponent faired..
3. it was a really lousy finish. lesnar dominates most of the match and cena hits 2 moves and wins. seriously?

No, they gave the full-time wrestler, the face of the company, the win over the man who hadn't wrestled a match in 8 years. For Cena to lose to part-timers on back to back PPV's woud have been asinine booking for the face of the company.

this should be an exception because it was lesnar's god damn fucking return match! return matches should always be won!!

CM Punk won his feud against John Cena in 2011. Alberto Del Rio won the feud against Cena in 2011. Punk again came out with the title despite Cena getting 4 shots at it in single's matches or triple threats in 2012. Dolph Ziggler won the finale of their series in their ladder match at TLC 2012.

they didn't get the last laugh though. wwe creative always remembers cena's feuds and always wants to give them their win back. remember the raw after summerslam 2011? it was cm punk vs john cena for the #1 contenders match to see who faces alberto del rio.. john cena won that match, and that match ended their feud. remember : ppv matches dont always end feuds. dont be so naive man.

alberto del rio may have won that feud, but he didnt necessarily get the last laugh. i remember john cena beating him on 2 different times : the santa claus episode where del rio ran over santa clause, and of course this week on monday night raw.

and dolph ziggler lost to john cena on 2 raws after that tlc match.. it was so embarassing for ziggler. ziggler had 2 people backing him up (big e and AJ) and he still lost. john cena embarassed him to death.. he got nothing out of that feud.

And no, I don't care how, he lost them. Should the face of the company lose all of his feuds, and do so clean? You don't like him as face of the company, that's apparent, but he is, and in being so, their top face, he shouldn't lose clean often.

he should put people over more.. its as if he never treats anybody as a fucking threat.

You mistake "building up" younger stars for "losing to". When a younger or newer star is put into a feud with Cena, it does help build them up.

not as much as u think it does.. if cena actually treats them as a threat, they would be put over. but all he does is smile and laugh it off. even when his own girlfriend be trayed him, the next night he was smiling like it was nothing. way to put over your opponents. if the top star doesnt treat people as a threat, why should the audience?

1. Their match at Extreme Rules was a very good one.

from a casual point of view, they dont pay attention to how good the match was or how much offense someone puts in.

2. Lesnar would be a legitimate threat to take the title from Cena.

doesn't mean it wuold be a good draw. that feud was lame as fuck, cena didnt even treat lesnar as a threat, he just kept on smiling like it was nothing.

3. I never mentioned Cena vs. Lesnar at Wrestlemania, did I, so what do Rock vs. Brock or Cena vs. Undertaker have to do with it?

u did mention cena vs lesnar..

4. Lesnar didn't lose credibility the first time, as he was portrayed as a beast against Cena. Losing doesn't equal losing credibility, and like it or not, a heel who hasn't wrestled for 8 years shouldn't beat the full-time face of the company.

i already said that casuals dont remember how their opponent faired, they usually look at the result. also many people didnt watch the ppv. yes losing does equal losing credibility if it is his fucking return match. return matches should always be won, otherwise u would lose momentum.

1. Money In The Bank 2011 was clean as a sheet. Noone touched or interfered with Cena.

so distractions count as clean? cuz john laurintiis distracted john cena, causing cena to break his fucking submission move. we don';t know if cm punk would have tapped out or not.

2. Summerslam 2011, Cena was pinned after a GTS from Punk. He got his foot on the rope, but HHH didn't see it. It wasn't a cheap or dirty win, Punk won because he hit a move on Cena that got him a 3 count.

are u fucking seriuos? how stupid can u get man? it was a cheap win because the match was not properly finished.. cena had his fucking foot on the rope.. how do u know what would have happened if the match went on? its like kicking out of a move but the referee didnt see it..

This is normally the point where I'd spout off useless cliches such as 'Wait until we see what happens' or 'Time will tell', but I'll simply say 'I do'. They've been building Bryan up, giving him the first pinfall in a six-man against The Shield, having him make Orton tap in the main event of Raw two weeks ago, and using him in one of the top storylines in the company for months now.

They've already 'built up' Daniel Bryan, in a major way.

it doesnt matter because its the wwe. they always manage to screw shit up. remember the hhh/cm punk/nash angle?

Where did you get these statistics from? Please be sure to show your work as well if you want credit.

from previouis statistics. john cena rarely loses clean, especially not to a new star. he only loses to people with equal star power (hbk, hhh, batista)

There's no chance in me getting 'let down' by wrestling, because while I'm passionate about it, it doesn't affect or dictate my mood. If I'm wrong, and Bryan loses to Cena, I'm fine with Cena's reign continuing. If Bryan wins, I'm good with that as well.

good for u, i dont really caer.

I'm a fan of both men, and enjoy seeing them perform. I know they'll have a heckuva match, and while I think Bryan will be the guy, I won't be surprised, disappointed, or let down if I'm wrong.

i would be if the same, stale guy who had the same character for 8 years with no character change won and then defeated an upcoming star, who has lots of momentum.

I'm not sure how Khali was "fed to Cena", as he got a pinfall victory over him on Saturday Night's Main Event in a non-title match just 8 days before their Judgment Day match.

cena beat him 2 ppvs in a row

And before you get on your sopbox about how Cena won the feud, you do realize how asinine it would be to have a non-English speaking WWE Champion on their flagship Monday Night Raw show, correct?

not really because he would have a manager.

They had the man you claimed to be the bigger draw then Cena, Dave Bautista, and they went with Khali over him as Smackdown's World champion.

because they wanted to make khali a threat, which cena couldnt do because he doesnt know how to put people over?

In a battle royal after Edge forfeited the title due to injury....

because batista is more selfless than john cena.. he actually puts people over.

1. Again, Cena did put him over, 1-2-3, on Saturday Night's Main Event.
2. When they faced off at both Judgment Day and One Night Stand, they main-evented both shows. Are you aware of how many other PPV's Khali main-evented otherwise? None.

and where is the great khali now? superstars matches, lmfao. i would actually be the top heel on the B show than be on the A show and be fed to a top star.

Again, you don't have to beat someone, especially with a heel going against the face of the company, to be put over. Feuding Cena brought Khali into main-event status, and following that, he quickly won the World Title.

lmfao at cena brinigng khali to main event status. it was undertaker and dominant booking (prior to cena feud) that elevated him, not cena. cena just hurt his momentum.

If you don't believe the two are related, well, you're wrong.

i think u are wrong and u don;t know dog shit about wwe. thank goodness u are not a wwe writer

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

What the fuck are you talking about?


I know lesnar won in 2003. wwe wanted to give john cena his win back because nobody can be seen as having the last laugh or winning a feud against cena. it can't happen because vince loves cena so much.



1. a lot of people didn't watch the ppv, therefore they dont know that lesnar dominated most of the match.
2.casuals usually remember the result of the match, not how their opponent faired..
3. it was a really lousy finish. lesnar dominates most of the match and cena hits 2 moves and wins. seriously?




this should be an exception because it was lesnar's god damn fucking return match! return matches should always be won!!



they didn't get the last laugh though. wwe creative always remembers cena's feuds and always wants to give them their win back. remember the raw after summerslam 2011? it was cm punk vs john cena for the #1 contenders match to see who faces alberto del rio.. john cena won that match, and that match ended their feud. remember : ppv matches dont always end feuds. dont be so naive man.

alberto del rio may have won that feud, but he didnt necessarily get the last laugh. i remember john cena beating him on 2 different times : the santa claus episode where del rio ran over santa clause, and of course this week on monday night raw.

and dolph ziggler lost to john cena on 2 raws after that tlc match.. it was so embarassing for ziggler. ziggler had 2 people backing him up (big e and AJ) and he still lost. john cena embarassed him to death.. he got nothing out of that feud.



he should put people over more.. its as if he never treats anybody as a fucking threat.


not as much as u think it does.. if cena actually treats them as a threat, they would be put over. but all he does is smile and laugh it off. even when his own girlfriend be trayed him, the next night he was smiling like it was nothing. way to put over your opponents. if the top star doesnt treat people as a threat, why should the audience?


from a casual point of view, they dont pay attention to how good the match was or how much offense someone puts in.

doesn't mean it wuold be a good draw. that feud was lame as fuck, cena didnt even treat lesnar as a threat, he just kept on smiling like it was nothing.

u did mention cena vs lesnar..

i already said that casuals dont remember how their opponent faired, they usually look at the result. also many people didnt watch the ppv. yes losing does equal losing credibility if it is his fucking return match. return matches should always be won, otherwise u would lose momentum.



so distractions count as clean? cuz john laurintiis distracted john cena, causing cena to break his fucking submission move. we don';t know if cm punk would have tapped out or not.

are u fucking seriuos? how stupid can u get man? it was a cheap win because the match was not properly finished.. cena had his fucking foot on the rope.. how do u know what would have happened if the match went on? its like kicking out of a move but the referee didnt see it..



it doesnt matter because its the wwe. they always manage to screw shit up. remember the hhh/cm punk/nash angle?


from previouis statistics. john cena rarely loses clean, especially not to a new star. he only loses to people with equal star power (hbk, hhh, batista)


good for u, i dont really caer.

i would be if the same, stale guy who had the same character for 8 years with no character change won and then defeated an upcoming star, who has lots of momentum.


cena beat him 2 ppvs in a row


not really because he would have a manager.


because they wanted to make khali a threat, which cena couldnt do because he doesnt know how to put people over?


because batista is more selfless than john cena.. he actually puts people over.


and where is the great khali now? superstars matches, lmfao. i would actually be the top heel on the B show than be on the A show and be fed to a top star.

lmfao at cena brinigng khali to main event status. it was undertaker and dominant booking (prior to cena feud) that elevated him, not cena. cena just hurt his momentum.


i think u are wrong and u don;t know dog shit about wwe. thank goodness u are not a wwe writer

Batista put over more people than Cena?



You can't find good comedy like this, guys. Take it all in. Who did Batista put over? My sides are bursting.

So Undertaker and dominant booking elevated Khali and not Cena? Do you remember what Khali did from the time he beat Undertaker to when he faced Cena for the title? I do very much. Let me give you the legends Khali beat in that time period.

Psicosis, Super Crazy, Shannon Moore, Tommy Dreamer, Eugene, The Highlanders, Kane, and Carlito. Might as well throw HBK in there since was a No-DQ match. Bask in their glory.

He also went to ECW in that period as well. That's elevation, holmes.

Main events: Khali/Undertaker - 0, Khali/Cena - 2

 

[CmPunker]

Batista put over more people than Cena?



You can't find good comedy like this, guys. Take it all in. Who did Batista put over? My sides are bursting.

So Undertaker and dominant booking elevated Khali and not Cena? Do you remember what Khali did from the time he beat Undertaker to when he faced Cena for the title? I do very much. Let me give you the legends Khali beat in that time period.

Psicosis, Super Crazy, Shannon Moore, Tommy Dreamer, Eugene, The Highlanders, Kane, and Carlito. Might as well throw HBK in there since was a No-DQ match. Bask in their glory.

He also went to ECW in that period as well. That's elevation, holmes.

Main events: Khali/Undertaker - 0, Khali/Cena - 2

no need to be an ass. batista jobbed to cena 3 ppvs in a row. 3 ppvs in a fucking row. do u ever see cena jobbing to the same person 3 ppvs in a row CLEAN?

honestly, i would rather be the champion on the B show rather than being on the A show and jobbing to a top star. great khali also decimated rey mysterio, although he didnt beat him. still better than jobbing to john cena

 

[Nate DaMac]

Whoah, pump the brakes there. I wasn't saying that it was my opinion that he OR Cena have a limited moveset. Maybe I didn't specify what I was getting at, and for that I apologize.

Well I didn't specifically say that you were stupid. I was speaking hypothetically. If you've never said any of those things then none of that applied to you.

As a fellow member of the IWC, I'm sure that you've come across the occasional "Cena only haz duh five moves of doom" bit. Maybe I've seen it more frequently than you, so that's just me.

Oh I've seen it plenty.

What I am attacking it the double-standard held against Cena for doing what most workers do.

Fair enough.

And you can be a great wrestler without being a great entertainer. I mean wrestler in a pure, in-ring action only sense. If being a great wrestler meant being a great entertainer, then ALL of those ROH guys who are putting on indy-riffic matches would be main-eventing the WWE. If being a great entertainer meant being a great wrestler, I wouldn't see this "Cen-uh on-luh has duh five moves of doom" nonsense.

Then you go and completely contradict yourself. Did you not read anything that I wrote? No, you can not be a great wrestler if you're not a great entertainer. Being able to do a bunch of cool things in the ring doesn't make you a great wrestler, it makes you a great athlete. Any skill player in the NFL or NBA player can do the things that these guys can do, the talent comes in making people give a shit about what you're doing. The sole, and I mean SOLE point of wrestling is to draw money. If you're drawing money, you're good. If you're not, you're not good. Simple as that.

So, maybe as for a little clarification next time before you go on an all-out offensive like that next time? Thanks, <3ShieldGirl<3.

Nothing I said was really directed at you, per se. Except for the bit about you talking out of your ass seeing as you haven't even been watching Daniel's PPV matches.

 

[Nate DaMac]

no need to be an ass. batista jobbed to cena 3 ppvs in a row. 3 ppvs in a fucking row. do u ever see cena jobbing to the same person 3 ppvs in a row CLEAN?

No, Cena doesn't job 3 PPVs in a row. It's called being the top face. When Batista was the top guy he went over Triple H 3 PPVs in a row.

Also, Batista was on his way out, he was just putting his buddy over before he left.

What is this thread about again?