go ahead, leave this thread for all i care. shield girl is ignorant as fuck.. and why the fuck are we arguging about post count and rep on a wrestling forum?
i just shot down ur arguments, can u plz read? i used ratings to prove it..
How long will John Cena's reign last?
- Thread starter CmPunker
- Start date
go ahead, leave this thread for all i care. shield girl is ignorant as fuck.. and why the fuck are we arguging about post count and rep on a wrestling forum?
i just shot down ur arguments, can u plz read? i used ratings to prove it..
more viewers = higher rating. simple as fuck, are u this stupid?
because the crowds were better.. and i haev sources from my friends dad that wrestling was really popular.. and the attidude era was tv-14 and wayyy more star power and more intense and better characters. coincidence? not really
nice job to become a civilized person, dumbass.
u want me to say it again? vince mcmahon planned ahead so that linda can run for senate without suspicion.. simple as fuck. okay?
newwaveknight
You're Either Texus,Or Against Us
How did you shoot down my arguments again?
You never posted where you got ANY of your ratings. I, on the other hand did.
And you brought up the post count. Seriously, how much lack of oxygen did you get when your mother was pregnant with you?
Come on, kid, I'm sure it's past your bed time. Be sure not to stay up too late or your parents might ground you. Go to bed so that the grown-ups can talk about the big ol' wrestling show.
You want proof, i just got proof for you right NOW..
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/274979-75-wwe-smackdown-rating-narrowly-avoids-2013-low
cm punk in the main event = ratings increase..
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/274681-final-rating-a-viewership-details-for-71-wwe-raw-
cena in the main event = bad ratings
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/275...eeking-general-manager-for-performance-center
Cm punk in the main event = ratings increase.. john cena OFF the main event = ratings increase. win-win situation man..
TLC 2012 drew 175k buys - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TLC:_Tables,_Ladders_&_Chairs_(2012)
Guess what? john cena was in the main event of this one, cm punk was NOT. this even had the shield's debut, that would haveb een some anticipation.
Tlc 2011 drew 179k buys - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TLC:_Tables,_Ladders_&_Chairs_(2011)
Guess what? its the opposite, cm punk in main event, while john cena wasnt in it. the only thing close to main eventing this was big show vs mark henry, which isnt that big of a draw.. so cm punk proves to be a higher draw than john cena.
Hell in a cel 2012 drew 199k buys.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in_a_Cell_(2012)
this can be compared to TLC 2012. cm punk was on hell in a cell, while john cena was not, and look at the difference in buyrates.. also look at the rest of the card for hell in a cell. really bad star power, yet cm punk still carried the show..
night of champions 2011 - john cena vs cm punk main event..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_Champions_(2011)
all of a sudden, when john cena is in the main event, buyrates are god awful.. yet when cm punk main events without cena, then buyrates higher..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Rumble_(2013)
the rock vs cm punk main events, and this gets 510k buys.. while 2012 had only 410k buys. coincidence? not really.
cm punk defeats john cena's merchandise sales.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...es-1-in-merchandise-set-to-receive-major-push
Dayum. Cmpunker is dropping pipebombs all over the place, whata Paul Heyman guy!
As for this thread. I think it's only right for John Cena to hold the title for more than 434 days so he can surpass CM Punk's boring reign. I believe it's only right since John Cena's a bigger star than Punk and it would be best for business. Also, that way we can all forget about Punk's embarrassing reign that brought bad ratings last year.
wwe should make punk lose to fandango and curtis in a few matches so dey can be legend status liek hhh, taker, austin #imsofuckingsmart #thankuwwe
As for this thread. I think it's only right for John Cena to hold the title for more than 434 days so he can surpass CM Punk's boring reign. I believe it's only right since John Cena's a bigger star than Punk and it would be best for business. Also, that way we can all forget about Punk's embarrassing reign that brought bad ratings last year.
wwe should make punk lose to fandango and curtis in a few matches so dey can be legend status liek hhh, taker, austin #imsofuckingsmart #thankuwwe
man, how the fuck can you blame cm punk for those bad ratings? he wasnt even the focus of the show.. john cena was the focus, so if anything, blame john cena.
and btw john cena is a bigger star, but thats because he kisses ass better, not because hs is a better draw, not because he is more talented, its cuz he loves to kiss ass. and how is it a good business decision to have cena surpass punk's reign? ratings would plummet to death if that happened, cena was not the draw he used to be. he is staler and older than ever, and nobody is that interested in him.. injuries will catch up to him, can he really stay uninjured for 434 days? doubt it cuz he is so injury prone.. i hope he gets a major injury, like not just a minor injury, and i mean it, im not joking.. im sick of him so much.
why do u keep repeating the same thing? curtis axel and fandango haev no talent
FunKay the Inevitable
People Like Me, We Don't Play
Well that depends. Triple H lost several times to Curtis Axel he didn't look bad at all afterwards. Dolph Ziggler appeared capable of hanging with John Cena throughout their programme despite not being Cena's equal. It's entirely possible, yes. You seem to believe that all wins and losses count. If that were the case then Mick Foley would be a janitor rather than in the Hall of Fame and Daniel Bryan would be nowhere near the WWE Championship.
I love how you think swearing makes you look like a big man. I also love how you start out reasonably well presented and then it just deteriorates to your usual drivel later.
Because Cena's never lost his first title defence after winning a title before. Never ever...right...right? And yes, Edge did feud with those people, but again he wasn't a main eventer until he defeated Cena. It wasn't until then that Edge looked like a guy who could work 20 minutes against the Heavyweight Champion and be a potential winner.
How do you make villains look legit? You have them look like villains. Whether that's by having them go over clean against the face or by having an army to help them, we have to make them look like a villain. The reason Alberto Del Rio looked so evil at Payback wasn't because he won the match, but because of the manner in which he won. He proceeded to win by any means necessary even after he was told that it could seriously harm Ziggler. He ignored it and proceeded and thus turned heel.
I also like how you're taking the context of long, stretched out feuds and applying it to a random match that looks utterly ridiculous. The hero wins in traditional wrestling booking at the end. Sin Cara isn't going to feud with Big Show and Lesnar across a multi-month platform and he isn't going to face them in a handicap match. If he did, he'd have been built to look very strong before WWE engaged in such a match.
Finally on this, you seem to be the only person who recalls this 2011 loss to John Cena. I don't remember it and even if it did happen, most people are going to remember the Backlash match as their final match because it was indeed their final big time battle.
First off, your original point was that Cena was responsible for RVD's bust in 2006 just to remind you. Second, RVD went 25 minutes with Cena, something no other main eventer had done to Van Dam in the recent past (especially seeing as Rob was coming off a long-term injury to his knee) and then proceeded to beat Cena. Did he have help? Yes, but that was part of the storyline, y'know, the thing that creates drama and gets people to watch.
Edge Spearing Cena was considered by Cena to be an act of war and they began their summer feud on/off from there until the time was needed to take the belt from Van Dam. And it wasn't like Van Dam looked bad taking advantage because it was his finisher that won it. In fact if anything, that win helped give ECW that shove it needed to get kick started. They defeated the machine known as WWE and they seized there moment. In the words of Joey Styles "Do it Rob, we'll take it!"
Yes, because would you buy Kevin Federline walking in to WWE and pinning the WWE Champion straight in a one-on-one match? No, I thought not. Federline pinned Cena and while he needed help doing it, he still went over Cena. Also to "Job" doesn't mean to lose cleanly or to get beat by a landslide margin. Its just become a bit muddied over time. To "Job" is to lose to someone plain and simple.
First off, perhaps I didn't phrase this properly, but lets try this again just to be crystal clear for you: Cena lost to Sheamus on three PPV encounters between the two of them. One was a Tables Match, one was a Fatal Fourway Match and the final one was a Cage. At no point did Cena pin or make Cena submit.
On this point of short title reigns, you do realise Cena's had several short title reigns, many of which were shorter than that initial Sheamus reign. You do also realise that more often than not, the champion is going to be overshadowed by the Royal Rumble Match because its the Royal Rumble Match, right?
And Cena didn't run because he's the top face in the company and thus is booked to act like a foolhardy idiot. Its the same as whenever Austin was surrounded by McMahon's goons; he didn't run because he's the hero and he's going to fight against the odds. If Cena ran he'd look like less of a hero. The heels go for the self preservation, the faces go for the heroism.
To be honest with you, yes.
Well then don't come in with "facts" that aren't actual facts.
Because he was the person involved in the feud with Nexus and WWE were finishing the programme. Therefore, WWE were putting their thinking caps on and going, "Hmmmmm, let's think. Shall we have John Cena, the face of the company who is set for a major push back into the main event come the new year and has been feuding with the Nexus since early summer finish the feud with Nexus or shall we let Koztino have a crack at it?" Of course they're going to have Cena beat Nexus, they'd humiliated him and he wanted some payback and he did by picking them off week by week until it was Wade left.
And concerning the Royal Rumble, all Cena did was clothesline two fatigued guys out of the ring, drop the rope on a sprinting Welshman who was close the 300 pounds and then AA Punk out after a brief battle. Cena was fresh entering the Rumble, Punk had been in since #1 and we were up to I believe around #20 by that point. They were feuding and they were moving onto different things post Rumble so you have Cena end it there whilst still having Punk look good lasting that long and giving Cena a fight even when knackered.
Once again you pick a random episode of Raw out of nowhere that nobody but you can seem to remember to support your "facts". Good job there. The Miz in early 2011 is completely different to The Miz of 2013. Want to know why? Because WWE lost faith in Miz. Was that Cena's doing? Hardly. Miz was still flirting with the main event scene long after they had finished their programme and Cena allowed Miz to pin him at the biggest event in wrestling in front of over a million viewers worldwide. People remember that more than Miz losing to Cena on other PPV's in WrestleMania hangover period.
Now you're dealing with hypotheticals. Punk might've tapped out, but he didn't did he. Hell, he didn't even look like he was in that much danger at that particular point. How did it make Punk look good? Oh I don't know, pinning Cena in the middle of the ring in his hometown on the last day of his contract with no help in dealing physical harm to Cena seems like a fairly solid victory to me. Punk went from being a dude who could work a main event programme to being a star that night and it was because John Cena laid down for him in the right circumstances.
I don't think the casual fans really gave much of a shit that Johnny Ace got punched or that Vince was there. I think they cared that Cena got pinned by CM Punk in Chicago and that's why he was accepted back with open arms, more over than ever before.
Well Khali can barely walk and was always considered fairly terrible anyway, plus he won the World Heavyweight Championship almost immediately following his programme with Cena...
Ryback is busy trying to do something different with his character and feuding with Chris Jericho. I wouldn't say that's too bad...
Well Kane went from the Cena programme to feuding with Randy Orton, working programmes for the WWE Championship and eventually becoming part of an extremely popular double act in Team Hell NO whilst Show went and became World Heavyweight Champion for several months, consistently beating the very popular and very big babyface known as Sheamus. But y'know Cena really killed their momentum, didn't he
Umaga went straight from the Cena feud into the big WrestleMania programme that year and was part of the marquee match that brought in over 1.3 million viewers, a record, to watch WrestleMania 23. I think he did pretty well considering.
Johnny Ace is off programming because they wanted him off programming. I don't recall that many complaints about that actually.
Wade Barrett's been on a bit of a roller coaster. Since the feud with Cena, Barrett's gone on to compete in a series with Randy Orton that's made both men look fairly solid whilst also becoming a three time Intercontinental Champion. Arguably Barrett was the worst IC Champion ever, but that was because of WWE's failure to book their midcard champions as strong over a consistent basis.
Again with the hypotheticals. Punk didn't tap did he; hell he was in more danger from Johnny Ace screwing him over ala Montreal. A victory doesn't have to be 100% cookie cutter clean to be an example of putting someone over. If that were the case then Austin going over Michaels at Mania 14 wasn't clean or credible. The same with Triple H over Mick Foley. It wasn't a fluke victory. A fluke victory is like when Sandow pinned Sheamus a few weeks ago on Raw. Making someone look credible is what happened at Money in the Bank.
Yes, the angle was pretty bloody dire, but that doesn't take away from the fact that when the record books are published it still reads "SummerSlam 2011 - CM Punk defeated John Cena via pinfall"
Well actually yes it means quite a lot. If Del Rio shrugged off all of Cena's finisher and then proceeded to pin him in the middle of the ring cleanly, that would be an example of bad booking. Del Rio's a character that lies and cheats and abuses his power. That sort of character needs to look a certain way in order to make people believe in it.
Heels cheat. They always have and they always will. That's how Ted DiBiase got over. That's how Vince McMahon got over. That's how Edge got over. That's how the vast majority of heels get over. They stack things in their favour by less than respectable means.
Such a shame that Mark Henry's doing a fantastic job with his character. I mean, how dare he become a credible villain like that. What a dick. Also loving how you're ignoring The Shield who went over everyone from Cena to Ryback to Orton to Bryan to the Undertaker.
I never said it was clean. This is another example of you saying that in order to be put over you need to win clean. That's bogus and it always will be. You can cheat to go over and gain further heat by resorting to devious manners against the top face of the company. Tensai did that and defeated Cena. Did it affect Cena much? Not particularly but that was probably because he had Brock Lesnar breathing down his neck and knew that in two weeks time he was facing legitimate destroyer and couldn't dwell on taking the loss to Tensai.
Who would have fit in the role to take down Johnny Ace like? CM Punk? The guy who they were turning heel less than six weeks later? It made all the sense in the world to have Cena, the top face, overcome the top heel in Johnny Ace. That's how wrestling has been booed since day one; the good guy overcomes the bad guy and the fans go home happy. WWE has done that since the days of Bruno Sammartino through Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin all the way to today.
Winning via DQ and winning via pinfall are totally different. The Shield beat Cena and pinned his shoulders to the mat for a 1-2-3. Cena didn't do that against The Shield. He might have but we have no proof to say he would. The Shield still own that pinfall win over Cena and he's yet to take his revenge. Maybe we'll see that further down the line.
He's a heel. Why is this concept so difficult for you to grasp? Bad guys cheat in real life and in fiction even more so. Ryback wanted to send a message. He did. It just happened to coincide with Axel's match and Axel won. To this day Axel has yet to lose to Cena and they aren't anywhere near each other because they're off doing different things.
Cena lost on PPV to Dolph Ziggler in the main event. That's what the record books are going to read. Ziggler held his own, kept his briefcase and won when it really mattered. AJ turning heel overshadow that? Not really. And Cena smiling? That's because he's John Cena and very little gets under his skin...that's why WWE tried to sell the main event of Mania this year as Rock getting under Cena's skin and causing tension between the two...didn't really work but that's because they barely promoted the match.
Hell I don't even remember it as an AJ heel turn right now let alone in a year or two. I remember Ziggler beating Cena on PPV. Again you talk about these full time heels like they're not that good but actually, a large portion of them are doing a solid job. Mark Henry's been fantastic in his current role for a long time now, Del Rio did a solid job coming off as evil at Payback when he turned, The Shield are considered a major force to be reckoned with and Big Show's currently injured. They all have credibility and if someone were to go over them then they'd be getting a solid rub.
Orton was the guy who ended the year long title reign of John Cena who had torn through pretty much everyone. Orton ended that reign and got under Cena's skin as a result. There's a difference from being a guy floating around the top of the card and being the WWE Champion. Being the Champion, Orton took the title from Cena and after being made to look a bit dopey by Triple H (yes I'm shocked too) he won it back and went on to dominate Raw for the next six months...all because taking out Cena had set him up to be that #1 heel on Raw.
Also, Orton dominated Triple H? I'd love to know when...
I never said he elevated them to main event status. If you could read then you'd have realised I said that JBL defeated Cena in order to set up his assault on the World title against Punk at SummerSlam that year. Beating a top guy puts you in good stead. Michaels defeated Cena and looked capable of still being able to win the WWE Championship even after all these years. Now for the big one you missed completely. If the Rock wrestled Heath Slater at WrestleMania then do you think people would've noticed it as much? No. If the Rock had wrestled Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania would people have noticed it as much? No. The Rock wrestled John Cena and the people took notice. It was Cena being Rock's adversary that gave Rock's Return the big momentum boost. His return promo is overshadowed by the fact he called Cena out. People don't recall the interaction he had with Michael Cole or even the long, drawn out entrance he had. They remember that he laid down the challenge to Cena. In order for the dance to work you need to have two guys dancing and Cena and Rock both were involved in making that feud the spectacle it was.
It was credible sure, but he looked far more credible taking Cena to a place Cena had never been before and making him resort to barbarism not seen from John Cena in the past.
Did they? I'd like to see these matches where Khali doesn't look like an awkward tree trunk trying to wrestle more agile big men. Cena made Khali appear like a threat to his title and Cena had to resort to cheap tactics in order to overcome a monster. He won, but again he had to dig deep to do it. From that point on, Khali looks like a major threat.
No I said "traditionally" that's what heels are supposed to do. There are a variety of different types of heel. Ryback was fitting into the monster category before he started developing into the "Cryback" character that Jericho has labelled him. During his feud with Cena he wasn't that character. In their feud with one another, the only pinfall to occur in the entire feud was that first fall in the Payback match. Every other time Cena beat him in gimmick matches or it was a draw.
Batista won the match when they were both babyfaces. They were on equal pegging. Neither man had injury or limitations put on their performance. They went out and destroyed each other and Batista won, snapping Cena's neck as a result. When they collided again further down the line, Batista was a douchey, petty heel who was jealous of Cena. He was supposed to lose, just as most heels are. It wasn't Cena's backstage politics, it was logical progressive booking.
Shawn Michaels who was already a star and was on a higher level to Triple H for the majority of his career. That Shawn Michaels? And no that isn't the same as John Cena because Cena, when he lost to Michaels, had surpassed him as a star.
Edge pinned Triple H clean? You must be out of your craw. Not only did Kozlov (who has someone gotten two mentions in this post) wear Triple H down, Edge essentially jumped Triple H AND Jeff Hardy came in swinging a chair. That is the epitome of not clean. You don't get to pick and choose when the rules of putting someone over clean apply. They either do or they don't. And for the record, by that point in time, Edge had already held the WWE or World Heavyweight Championship five times and had completed his initial programme with Cena that turned him into a main eventer. Therefore all Triple H did was lose to another main eventer whilst being protected.
DetectiveZelix
King of Zecropolis
Dear Lord you guys are still at it. One side thinks Cena can do no wrong and praise him till Kingdom come whilst the other spews quite a bit of undeserved hatred of him. Whats worse is all of you morons have gone extremely off topic. I hope you all get infractions for this. Get back on topic and stop the childish debates. No ones going to change anyones opinion
Can you actually COUNT? hhh lost to curits axel 2 times.. i said TEN times.. can u plz count?
yes it does count.. ziggler looked weak as fuck, how does that make ziggler capable? damien sandow also wrestled john cena in a 5 minute match, does that make him capable too? lol, of course losses and wins count. how else do u determine if they are capable? promos? casuals dont really care.. storylines? possibly, but wins and losses matter much more. people tend to remember matches more than storylines.
i love how you are so arrogant and think u know shit about business.
cena's 1st world title was won against jbl.. he defended against jbl again, and he won.. that was Edge's FIRST world title win, ur 1st title reign is always important because its like a test run, to test how well u do as champion. no, i would rather beat hbk, chris benoit, jericho, and kane rather than jobbing to cena. and casuals know that too. they thought edge was so weak because he lost to cena on his 1st defense.
to make villians look legit, u make them credible.. like mark henry, brock lesnar, big show. and u keep on using alberto del rio as an example.. they fail at booking him really badly. look at his crowd reaction, do people give a shit? no.. look at the past 3 years he has been here, he has little to no crowd reaction and thats because he barely wins cclean matches..
you just said that wins and losses dont amtter.. u also said that villians should be booked to be cowards.. so based on that logic, why dont u have sin cara beat the cowards of big show and brock lesnar? do u not know how to read?
no, i dont think people will remember a random ppv better than an important raw.. this was the raw leading up to edge's face turn, so this is actually pretty important.
Frist off, i know what i wrote. Second, who the fuck cares how long the match went? seriouly, it doesnt mean shit. casuals dont give a fuck about how many minutes the match was, nobody gives a shit, they plan out the time, but its never accurate because of the pace, uncoordination, and u cant be exactly correct every single time.. minutes dont matter... and triple h faced cena in wm 22, kurt angle faced cena several times in pretty long matches... and why didnt u haev the drama AFTER the match, we expect the match to be clean, not have any bullshit. theres no excuse for that. they are both FACES. u keep on defending wwe creative for not giving cena clean losses, but the reality is, U KNOW IT, that they dont wanna give cena clean losses because they kiss his ass.. they dont do it for storyline purposes, they do it for ass kissing purpoess..
edge spearing cena was an act of protecting cena, not a storyline purpose. how the fuck does edge spearing cena achhieve anything? why not give rvd the clean win? why didnt they have edge interfere AFTER the match? and u talk about ecw being revived by john cena.. it wasnt john cena that revived ecw, it was paul heyman, god damn u are so sttupid.. if cena put over ecw so much, why didnt he give rvd the clean win? when cena faced sabu at the next ppv, why didnt he let sabu win? that would put over ecw big time.. but ur too ignorant and ur a cena mark..
it wasnt a one on one match, it was a 4 on one match, and everybody KNOWS it. federline pinned cena, so what, did he put him over? no, federline was already over, hes a fucking worldwide rapper for gods sake.. to JOB means to lose cleanly..
First off, perhaps i didnt phase this properly, but lets try this again : only ONE of those was clean, and the other 2 matches made sheamus look like a pussy.. he needed 7 other people to help him win... how did that make sheamus more over or credible?
do u know the difference between title reigns? the FIRST one is always important becaues it acts like a test, to see how he would do as champion.. cena's FIRST reign was 280 days.. are u this delusional and illogical? i know the champ will always be overshadowed at royal rumble, but thats no reason to make sheamus look like shit.
so its okay for the top heel, sheamus, to be booked like a foolhardy idiot? u just contradicted urself.. u said that sheamus looked amazing agaisnt cena, now u say hes a foolhardy idiot. seriously? thats true, but the what does self preservation have anything to do with running away like a pussy?
then learn to increase ur reading comprehension..
they are facts. i just forgot what year it was.. stop fucking nitpicking and think ur so cute or funny for it.. ur not.
theres no reason why nexus shouldnt have ended the feud as the winners? but no, i guess it makes sense for SUPERCENA to defeat 7 other men by himself.. and so what if cena is the face of the company, does that mean hes going to be around forever? no. does that mean beating nexus will increase buyrates or ratings? no.. but if somebody else beats nexus, it will be a breath of fresh air, what dont u understand about BUILDING NEW STARS.
u cant possibly be serious.. u are basically justifiying cena eliminating all of nexus just because he was "fresh".. that logic makes no sense honestly. its like saying sin cara should eliminate undertaker, kane, big show, and brock lesnar just because he is "fresh".. are u fuckign seriuos?? justifying cena for eliminating 5 other men by HIMSELF? an ENTIRE STABLE??
no, i am going to choose the match with the rock and cena vs miz and r truth.. that booking was horrible really. people remember that the miz won with the rock's help, and the miz is going nowhere right now.. thats what people are going to remember. also, people will remember that cena beat him 3 other times CLEAN, which devalues miz's WM win. so that WM win didnt mean shit because cena just no sold out..
dude, thats the equivalent of saying 20 other men interfered to help cm punk win, and then saying hypotheticals, like what if they didnt interfere.. obviously cena wouldve won.. and whats wrong with hypotheticals? thats wasnt a clean victory, im just thiking that if it was, there wouldve been a chance that punk tapped out.. he was nowhere near the ropes and was struggling. so u thikn distraction wins make people credible? cena got his win back, the raw after summerslam 2011, it was cena vs punk and kevin nash distracted cm punk.. and cm punk got himself over from the shoot promo, also got himself over with his massive amount of charisma.
they cared about how cmp unk won, the match was not clean.
he won it because of lack of star power, not because of cena.. ur misjudging the cause and effect.
its a step down, thats for sure. he has yet to win a ppv match.
u think kane is actually successful? kane went from getting fed to cena, then fed to randy, then fed to punk, then fed to bryan, then teaming with bryan.. that tag team was just something to give him to do, kane is one of the top 12 stars, of coruse he has to do something. again, ur misjudging the cause and effect. big show jobbed to cena. jobbing to cena doesnt consequent into beating sheamus.. sheamus did something that cena couldnt do because cena was selfish, sheamus put over big show CLEAN.Well Kane went from the Cena programme to feuding with Randy Orton, working programmes for the WWE Championship and eventually becoming part of an extremely popular double act in Team Hell NO whilst Show went and became World Heavyweight Champion for several months, consistently beating the very popular and very big babyface known as Sheamus. But y'know Cena really killed their momentum, didn't he
misjudging cause and effect again.. that match wouldve happened no matter what, cena didnt cause it. cena just kind of ruined the appeal of the match because umaga lost far too many times to him.
johnny ace was off because john cena kayfabe caused him to get fired.. he couldve been useful forp utting over younger talent, but no, i guess u have to put over cena, right?
wade barrett went nowhere after the feud because he got lost in the shuffle.. cena shouldn't have ended the feud as the winner, what does it do in the long term/ do u realize that wade barrett is younger and has some potential?
if u ask someone, a clean victory will always be better than a dirty victory. and triple h went over a lot of top stars clean, same for austin.
record books also state that cena had his foot on the rope.
vince mcmahon isnt even a wrestler. more like an actor.. he didnt have star power like other heels did.. ted dibase was never a world champ, was he? he was never a massive draw.. edge was a transitional champion, he was never a true main event draw.. all his title reigns were so fucking short.
doesnt mean that mark henry is a draw.. face it man, credible heels will draw in the long term. the shield are mid carders man, do u honetsly see them main eventing a ppv?
tensai flopped because of his lack of clean victories..
yes, cm punk.. the more people cheer you, and u turn on them, they will hate u even more because it feels like u were being betrayed.. its simple logic.. its like saying u become really close friends with someone, and u find out he betrayed u, since he was so close to you, you feel heartbroken.. same tihng for the cm punk comparison. and what did it do in the long term for cena? nothing.. he already peaked.
true, but later down on the line, cena will get his win back, i can feel it.. he always does
look at all the heels drawing power when they are in the main event, they dont draw. how can u justify heels being booked like cowards?
but people will remember that the raws after it, ziggler lost all the matches.. aj lee's heel turn did overshadow ziggler's win. are u fucking stupid? rewatch that match, idiot. cena smiling didnt put over fucking shit.. very little gets under his skin, thats the problem, thats the fucking problem. thats why he cant put over people. he doesnt treat them as a threat.
compare them to the full time top faces.. sheamus, punk, orton, cena. honestly who do u think is more credible?
orton didnt even defeat cena in a match until cena returned.. he injured him after cena had a match, how was that fair?
unforgiven and no mercy.
of course if the rock battled with a mid carder it wouldnt have mattered.. but battling with a top star like cm punk is just as good. it would put punk over.. jbl, shawn michaels, and the rock were main eventers, they would ave bounced back up without cena's help, okay?
how did cena resort to barbarism like he never did before, lol.. he did that against jbl.. and casuals barely remember how their opponent faired, casuals dont even look too far into these things, so of course, the only thing they wil remember is that cena won, umaga, lost, cena is the better man.. cena did resort to cheating in his match with kurt angle.
lol, once again u are overanalyzing stuff.
1. khali did look like a threat against rey mysterio and undertaker.
2. casuals barely pay attention to these stuff, so they dont care how their opponent faired, they care about the result.
and look how these chickenshit heels drawing power.. they were horrible ratings. the only reason cm punk could draw even with chickenshit was because he is talented as fuck. that takes some real skill.
ryback, horrible draw.. nobody cares about a pinfall in a series matches, like 3 stages of hel or ironman match. thats like saying randy orton beat cena clean 10+ times..
and once again, this is why heels are causing the buyrates to decrease, because they are not credible.. batista is a fucking mosnter, look at his physique, the only logical conclusion is to be a mosnter heel.
like you said below, shawn michaels just beat another main eventer. but anyways, john cena got his win back on survivor series 2008. so it doesnt matter, cena got all his fucking wins back! nobody gets the last laugh against john cena,.
that logic could be applied to shawn michaels and john cena..
FunKay the Inevitable
People Like Me, We Don't Play
Well yes I can, but I assumed you were trying to hyperbowl the stats seeing as Ziggler didn’t lose ten times to Cena on television/PPV.
Winning and losing is not the be all and end all of wrestling. It never has been and it never will be. Tommy Dreamer was arguably the #1 face in ECW and he barely ever won. Mick Foley has a terrible big match win/loss record and he’s a first ballot Hall of Famer. They are important to a degree but they are not what determines someone’s popularity/capabilities otherwise Bill Goldberg and Crimson are two of the top five wrestlers of all time.
Dolph Ziggler won when it mattered and that is what people are going to remember; John Cena made Dolph look like a star on a big stage and did the job to him when it mattered.
Well then Edge’s test run must have worked then seeing as he went on to win 10 more World Championship’s. And how exactly do you know what casual wrestling fans thought in 2006? Based on the way you type and act I would place your age around the mid-teens (15 or so perhaps) which would make you below the age of 10 when Edge won his first world title so you wouldn’t really have that great a grasp of what casual fans thought then at all.
Nobody has given a shit about Del Rio fort a long time. Long before Cena got his hands on him. Hell, he won the Royal Rumble and his reactions were barely worthy of someone in the midcard. People just don’t seem to care for Del Rio that much. However, on the night he defeated Dolph Ziggler, the Chicago crowd gave him some real heat and booed him fairly loudly. He went from “meh” babyface that night to fairly big heel.
No, I said that traditionally heels are booked to look weaker than faces. I also said that there are various different types of heels that go beyond that traditional booking. Brock Lesnar and the Big Show do not fall into a traditional heel category because they’re both fairly large monsters. Oh, and Sin Cara’s a jobber. Not all faces are destined to beat heels, but Cena, the face of the company, he is being the top guy and all, hence why he beat both the men you mentioned in the past 18 months or so.
It was such an important Raw that no one can remember it apart from you....especially seeing as Edge was a face by 2011, the year you stated this Raw took place.
Oh good so you’re aware that you implied that Cena was responsible for Van Dam getting arrested and later leaving WWE. Good.
So what you’re suggesting here is WWE wanted to protect their top star from looking weak whilst simultaneously giving Rob Van Dam the biggest rub of his career and launching the new ECW with a credible face champion. Yeah that sounds good to me.
Oh they protected Cena, sure, but they didn’t make Van Dam look weak. Hell Rob was the one who beat Cena. It was his Frog Splash that put Cena down for a 3 count. Cena put ECW over because he went to their environment and lost his championship to their star. He didn’t beat Sabu because what would that have accomplished? A broken down Sabu pinning Cena would’ve made Cena look really weak . Sabu had credibility in ECW forever because he was a legend there. His loss to Cena did nothing to hurt him. And Edge Spearing Cena re-launched their feud for the record, hence why Cena showed up and beat the tar out of Edge on the premier episode of ECW on Sci-Fi.
Kevin Federline’s a worldwide rapper? I’m just going to have to leave that because that’s just too funny. As for the term Job, Google it and the first definitions you’ll see are “To Lose to Someone”. You can Job Cleanly but that’s a sub-definition of the initial term.
Did he ask for the help? Did he seek out the help? No he capitalised on it and even evaded it at points. He beat the top star of the company in three different match types without losing to him once over that period. That makes him look credible.
Beating Randy Orton makes you look like shit? Good to know. Oh and yes the first reign is important and seeing as Sheamus took the belt back within a few months I would say he was deemed successful in his run...thanks to John Cena, amongst others, who made him look credible and capable.
If you could read correctly you would see that I defined the two in their roles relating to the Nexus as such: Cena was booked like a foolhardy idiot because he stood his ground and went for heroism over survival. Sheamus, a heel, decided to run because he wanted to fight another day and chose self preservation which is a heel tactic.
Well I have fairly good reading comprehension; it’s your writing and grammar I’m struggling to comprehend.
No I’m pointing out that your so-called facts incorrect. If you want to try and debate and point things out, you need to show the correct information.
So tell me, who would defeat the Nexus? Who would be the fit to take down the Nexus? If not the man who had been feuding with them all year, then who? He took them down over a period of weeks leading into the PPV match with Barrett at TLC, thus building the storyline up. Also, when do heel factions win major feuds against top faces? That’s not what happens when you have a large stable of heels. They always lose in the end.
It was four men; Ryan, Otunga, McGillicutty and Punk. The story of the Rumble up to that point had been that Nexus were dominating and the question was who could stop them. The answer was the man they were feuding with; Cena. Once again you make the comparison to Sin Cara eliminating major stars like Lesnar and Undertaker but that’s blowing things out of proportion. Sin Cara is a jobber. John Cena is the face of the company. Mason Ryan, David Otunga and Michael McGillicutty are not on the level of a Kane or a Big Show or a Lesnar or an Undertaker.
I’m not 100% sure what you just said but I think you were talking about the Survivor Series 2011 main event before jumping back some six months to the feud between Cena and Miz through WrestleMania from that year. Regarding Miz’s position, I said it before and I’ll say it again; WWE lost faith in Miz long after the Cena feud. He was main eventing PPV’s all the way through until December 2011 before he was being turned back into a midcarder. Cena did his job; he lost to Miz at the biggest stage of all at WrestleMania.
Wait...so you’re saying that Cena breaking a submission hold to punch out Johnny Ace and tell Vince off is the equivalent of getting beaten down by 20 guys. How? What made you draw that conclusion? The problem with hypotheticals? They didn’t happen and they aren’t facts that you can use when discussing the past. They are events that didn’t occur and mere speculation.
Cena losing to Punk wasn’t strictly 100% clean as I said, but it was far from a fluke win. Punk looked very capable and became a star that night. By facing the top face of the company and taking him down in his hometown he became a star and he came back to mass adulation from the crowd. If he was facing Heath Slater or Sin Cara it wouldn’t be the same. Punk needed Cena for that to work. And again, this is a Raw barely anyone remembers, hence why when leading into Night of Champions 2012 WWE pretty much said that Cena hadn’t beaten Punk when it mattered.
Did they? I don’t recall many people afterwards being in uproar that Punk had won in the manner he did.
No, that’s not what I said. What I said was that Khali went from a programme with Cena to winning the World Heavyweight Championship in about a month. If Cena was such a bastard as you make him out to be he would’ve derailed Khali’s momentum entirely and he would’ve become a jobber straight from that point onwards...which he didn’t.
It is a step down, but that’s what a lot of guys do after title programmes where they come out on the losing end. Heck, The Rock went from feuding with Steve Austin and Triple H to battling Billy Gunn in 1999 after his title picture days were over for the time being.
Um, well yes given that you’ve just answered that for me.
Nor does losing to Cena mean that he was hurt at all. Before he was feuding with Cena and knocking him out semi-frequently on TV, Show was busy weeping in the ring after not winning the IC title from Cody Rhodes. After his feud with Cena, he was taking down the second most dominant babyface on the roster. Cena didn’t hurt Show’s momentum at all.
Cena ruined the appeal so much that it drew the largest buyrate in WrestleMania history. Okay, got it.
Again, who would you put in Cena’s place? Punk who is mere weeks away from turning heel? Someone like Kofi Kingston who isn’t near the same level of star power as Big Show? Orton who’s suspended?
Okay so its Cena’s fault that because he eventually won a feud that featured Barrett in 2010 that in 2013 Wade Barrett is somewhat floundering?
If the victories for Triple H and Steve Austin are clean, then so is Punk’s win at Money in the Bank. You can’t pick and chose when you want to apply the term clean.
That’s one detailed record book. Again see the Night of Champions build for evidence that no one really gave a toss about Cena’s foot being on the rope.
Vince McMahon was Steve Austin’s arch nemesis. By stacking the odds in his favour he became a major heel. He and Austin were also enormous ratings draws.
Ted DiBiase wasn’t a world champion, you’re right, but very few people were in the 80s’. Roddy Piper the man who CM Punk (who I’m gathering is your favourite wrestler) claims inspired him to be a pro wrestler was never world champion either but both he and DiBiase are considered major heels and major influences to others. Also, he wasn’t a massive draw? February 5th 1988, WWE Main Event does a 15.2 rating (33 million views, making it the most viewed wrestling programme of all time). The featured storyline heading into that show? Ted DiBiase attempting to gain the WWF Championship by hiring Andre the Giant to win the championship for him. To say DiBiase isn’t a draw is laughable.
Edge’s title reigns were noticeably short, true but to say he wasn’t the top heel of Raw in 2006 and the top heel of SmackDown of 2007-2009 would be plain wrong. He was the company’s top bad guy for a long, extended period.
Just because Henry isn’t a major draw doesn’t make him not credible. Shawn Michaels, considered by many to be the best in-ring talent ever was never a big draw and when they tried, business flopped horrendously. Midcard heels don’t go on an extended eight months winning streak and debut in the main event of the Survivor Series. The Shield will likely main event a PPV before their run is finished.
No, Tensai flopped because his character was shit and he was basically Albert with a Japanese gimmick and a manservant.
So how exactly would Punk have turned heel so quickly after bringing down the #1 heel in the company? He would’ve been too endeared to the public. Hell during his actual heel run he was never universally booed. He was in essence a heel version Cena; the vocal adult male support cheered him whilst the women and children booed with some cross-over inbetween.
Except he hasn’t yet and your gut is hardly something I’m going to trust given what you’;ve presented here.
Because there are a number of notable cowardly heels who were draws over the course of wrestling history; Triple H, Ric Flair, Vince McMahon, Honky Tonk Man. All had cowardly tendencies, hiding behind others, running away from their foes and using underhanded means to win when they could. Its a wrestling staple; a cowardly heel bullies a smaller or lesser wrestler until the hero comes in for the save and the heel flees. The face then chases the heel. It worked in the 80’s for Flair in the NWA and it worked in the 80’s for the Honky Tonk Man in the WWF.
I don’t even remember those Raw episodes now. I very much doubt most people remember those episodes of Raw and barely anyone will recall them come the same time next year. Cena didn’t grin throughout his feuds with Batista or Edge or Nexus or Rock or Shawn Michaels or CM Punk or Ryback or Mark Henry . Do you want me to go on because I can.
On paper the faces of course, but that’s always been the case. As I said about the Honky Tonk Man, on paper he’s totally inferior to Ricky Steamboat who he won the IC title from and Randy Savage with whom he feuded and The Ultimate Warrior who he ultimately dropped the gold to, but he was champion for a long, long time and he always escaped and people paid to see it time and time again.
It wasn’t fair, which means Orton was doing his job as he’s a heel and they do under-handed things. Also, Unforgiven 2007 – Orton defeated Cena...albeit via DQ but he did defeat him.
You mean the Unforgiven where Orton got jobbed out to Triple H in 2004? You mean the No Mercy where Triple H beat Orton clean, then defeated Umaga clean and then went on to lose to Orton in a Last Man Standing Match? You mean that No Mercy? That’s some real domination by Randy.
JBL was on his last legs and while I’m, sure he could’ve been credible facing Punk, a win over Cena makes it look like JBL has a chance at pinning Punk to capture the gold. Shawn traded victories with Cena because it made them look like equals. It meant that whenever they next fought one another you were left wondering just who could win this contest. The Rock needed a strong opponent in 2011 and 2012 and Cena was the man to do it. He was the top man and had laid the groundwork with the comments he made about Dwayne in 2007. Punk wouldn’t have fit and neither would someone like Orton. If Rock’s going to come back for a big time WrestleMania feud he wants it to be against the very best draw and that is John Cena.
Cena attempted to murder JBL? I don’t seem to recall that... And seeing as how we’re now 6 years removed from the Umaga feud and he’s been dead for close to four years now and there are likely a whole new breed of casual fans, I very much doubt they really care about Umaga all that much if they even know who he is.
You mean The Undertaker put someone over? There’s a fucking shocking revelation. Also Rey Mysterio? I.E. the worst world champion of all time whose reign consisted of him failing to beat about 50% of his opponents if not more.
Actually Punk as a chicken shit heel drew some fairly awful ratings and as I’ve evidenced before, there have been a whole number of various cowardly heels that have drawn big ratings and sales figures.
Ryback was crippled well before Cena got his hands on him, but still Cena found the time to take the only pinfall in their series of matches, thus making it look like Ryback might be on Cena’s level.
No, because the entire point of the character was that Batista, despite looking a monster and acting like one in the presence of smaller wrestlers such as Rey Mysterio and Daniel Bryan was a bully who needed to be brought down and who better than your top face to bring down a top bully? Cena cut Batista down to size.
Um, what no he didn’t. Jericho lost to Cena in the main event and Shawn Michaels lead a team to victory over a team of JBL’s.
How? Shawn pinned Cena in the middle of the ring after 40 minutes without interference or underhanded tactics of any kind. Edge pinned Triple H after he was weakened by a large muscular Russian and a chair wielding Jeff Hardy. They are entirely different scenarios.
Look, at the end of the day we're going to just go round in circles with this aren't we? Let me give you some advice; take time to formulate your answers, check your spelling and stop swearing/contradicting yourself (Telling ShieldGirl/Nate to stop calling you a ****** and then proceeding to call me ****** several times). Also, put actual research into your efforts. Do that, then come back to me. Until then, don't bother because if you do, I won't respond.
Also, seeing as someone mentioned that I was off topic; Cena will keep the WWE Championship until SummerSlam 2013 in my opinion and he'll drop it to Daniel Bryan who will subsequently complete his push to the moon that WWE seem to have set him on. The match will be of a fantastic quality and be a fun spectacle.
what the fuck is hyperbowl? i know ziggler didnt lsoe to cena 10 times, but it waas pretty close to that.. cena beat him so many times. how does that put over ziggler? he was a FILLER feud. a god damn filler feud.. its like saying sheamus put over damien sandow, not true.
yes it is. winning and losing is very important, why do u think things are biult up around matches, and matches is where the results are. lol tommy dreamer wasnt #1 face of the ecw, are u fuckign delusional kid? mick foley was never a top draw.. look at someone like hhh and compare him to mick foley. obviously the difference is very distinguishable. hhh is a top top tier superstar, foley is not.
how ignorant can u get? if ziggler was a mid carder, then yeah i would say he was put over, but ziggler at that point was not a mid carder.. he was an upper mid carder.. its like saying hhh was put over by john cena in WM 22 even though he didnt win. its bull shit andu know it... only mid carders benefit from losing feuds with top stars, but upper mid carders and main eventors dont..
i wouldve because i know that many people liked edge.. and when super cena took the title off of him, it pissed a lot of fans off.. this is the flaw in booking someone too superhumanly. they become hated because they win too much, and the plan to make someone even more over actually BACKFIRES. so it hurts both superstars.. its a lose lose situation.
so ONE crowd and ONE match proves that del rio is a top heel? what about other crowds? lol.. the flaw in ur logic man.
look at ryback, sheamus, and batista. all their heel runs were treated like *****es.. ryback kept on running away from john cena and ran away from fights. u can justify it as much as u want, but people will STILL see him as a pussy. sheamus was DEFEINITELY a pussy, again, u can justify as much as u want, but casuals still think hes ap ussy for running from nexus and cena. batista was also a pussy, even more so than the above. he lost 3 ppvs in a fucking row and could only beat cena at eliminatino chamber.. that was so much bullshit, why would u feed the most talented sueprstar in the roster to john fuckin cena? why not use him to put over someone else? something that will benefit in the long fucking term? oh wait, wwe doesnt know what long term is. anyways, chickenshit heels dont draw that much.. look at hbk, he was a chickenshit heel and he didnt even draw good ratings, however look at randy orton.. when he was booked as the dominant heel that he was, beating triple h CLEAN, he was drawing 3.5 ratings.
[YOUTUBE]SXBpFUexlug[/YOUTUBE]
what a fucking jobber match.. edge got squashed.. tapped out in a short match not even the main event.. in the middle of the show. and people will remember.. people arent stupid, okay? they may forget the length of the matches, but they WILL remember the result. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXBpFUexlug
i understand it isnt cena's fault.. but couldnt cena have used his backstage power to keep rvd in wwe?
are clean wins that bad? rvd will get a even better rub from beating cena CLEAN, right? do you understand that or are u too illogical and ******ed?
they did make rvd look weak. they made him look like he needed 2 other peoples help to win. it doesnt matter whos finisher it was that put him down, the fact is that edge attacked cena in an important point in time.. and paul heyman also came out. he did put over ecw, but then he undid his own work by defeating sabu.. he always does that, put over someone for a short amount of time, then undo his own work by beating them. and yes, i do think that sabu's loss was devastating to his career. it was the start of a downward spiral.. and edge couldn't have speared cena AFTER the match? seriously?
do u know how to research? type kevin frederline in fucking google.. i found it on google, it is someone who loses REGULARLY..
it doesnt matter if the help was intentional or not.. the FACT is that he received help, not if he asked for it.. no it doesnt, merely beating him dirty is not good enough. beating him clean, different story.
first of all, sheamus beat randy orton by DQ. nobody takes pride in a fucking DQ win. its just stupid as fuck. u can probably lose 5 times in a row via dq and still be credible. john cena did not make him look credible, how many times do i have to say it? he made a man with a monster physique look like a pussy. that is putting over? not erally..
cena was not booked like an idiot, he was booked like SUPER CENA because even though he couldn't beat them AT THE MOMENT, he still stood his ground. its typcical super cena garbage. sheamus, a man with that physique, shouldnt be running away.. didnt u just state that there are different types of heels? now u contradict urself huh?
its your contradictions that im struggling to comprehend.
i do have the correct information.. what the fuck?
John morrison imo. he was red hot at the moment. he had a shitload of momentum and taking out the nexus would do wonders for his career. john morrison was v ery impressive and over at that time.. john cena has already PEAKED, he wont go any further than he has. how simple do i have to make it? its called BUILDING STARS.. heel factions SHOULD win feuds against top feuds. its 7 vs 1.. and the one single person beat the 7 people by himself, what the fuck?
but the previous post you said it was alright, because cena was fresh, and everyone else was tired. therefore, u fucking IMPLIED that just because u are fresh, u can eliminate anybody u want. so i was making an analogy based on ur god damn flawed logic, so i can fucking prove u wrong. and no.. just because ur the face of the company doesnt mean u can eliminate an entire stable by yourself.. it is not realistic at all, no wonder the mainstream audience has a "lolfake" tag on wwe.. no wonder wwe doesnt appeal to mainstream people. john super fucking cena is a ******, thats why. this is why we cant build top heels, this is why mainstream hates wwe. u cannt possibly justify 1 person eliminating an entire stable by himself, how the fuck are u justifying that??
no.. at the moment, at survivor series, wwe still had an ounce of faith in the miz. but then, john cena used his selfish backstage political power to get whatever he wants, like a spoiled little brat. he made miz and truth look like shit. if cena can beat them both by himself, WHY WOULD HE NEED THE ROCK?? YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BUILD UP MIZ AND TRUTH TO MAKE THEM SEEM LIKE THREATS, but no... cena just beat them BOTH up by HIMSELF, what the fuck? why do u need the rock then? are u fucking serious?
they are events that have a high chance of occuring, like punk tapping out, if it werent for johnny ace interfering.
it WAS a fluke win.. it wasnt fucking clean. u just said that heels shouldnt have clean wins, EVER, right? so cm punk was a tweener at that time.. so u cant justify cena not willing to give a clean win.. cmp unk was tweener, cena was a face. how are u going to justify it now? huh?
thats because people dont have high standards for wwe. they are easily satisfied because they know that john cena is a selfish bitch.
he did derail his momentum.. look at it this way instead of being ignorant as fuck. merely feuding with someone is not putting over.. winning matters more. so he went from beating undertaker clean and beating rey mysterio, to losing to john cena clean, TWICE. if u think about it, u can only go downhill from there..
ryback's case is definitely different.. he is being horribly booked.. in what way is he being booked credible? by beating kane? seriously? he has yet to have his big win.
once again, u are fucking over analyzing things. being the top 12 right now doesnt mean shit, because the star poewr is so bad. mainly due to john cena taking up all the wins, instead of giving those wins to younger stars.. so being top 12 right now isnt that impressive. the top 12 right now in wwe would be mid carders or jobbers in attidue era.. lets see top 12 : john cena, cm punk, randy orton, sheamus, daniel bryan, alberto del rio, mark henry, ryback, kane, big show, dolph ziggler, dean ambrose, and christian.. think about it, compare this list to attidue era : kurt angle, the rock, stone cold, triple h, hbk, undertaker, etc.. this is all cena's fault.. one man taking up all the wins.. at least in the AE, people shared the #1 spot.
again, u are overestimating the power of feuds. MERELY FEUDING WITH SOMEONE DOES NOT PUT SOMEONE OVER!!!! how many times do i have to say it? are u fucking ******? it was SHEAMUS that put over big show, not john cena.. john cena hurt his momentum by beating him several times.
that was not ALL cena's work.. it was backed up by batista vs undertaker (imo, the biggest draw), donald trump's involvement, and the MITB ladder match.
what? did u not read my previous post? are u fucking blind? when the crowd likes you, and u turn heel on them, they feel betrayed, thus causing them to hate you even more..
lets say you become really really close friends with someone, and he scams you, u feel really betrayed because u trusted him, and he turned on you. would this have the same effect on someone who isnt close friends with u? no it wont because u dont know him that well.
it is cena's fault for making barrett get lost in the shuffle.. he defeated wade barrett, then where did he go next? if he won, he wouldve had a lot more options, like the wwe championship.
i didnt refer to those specific wins, i was referring to OTHER wins. are u blind?
people do care, theres a big difference between a clean win and a dirty win. a clean win demonstrates a great amount of faith, while a dirty win does not. and just to note, that sheamus and john cena vs alberto del rio and cm punk.. it was a raw building up to night of champions 2012, and john cena won. but cm punk had his foot on the rope.. so cena got his win back. and dont say, "people wont remember that".. they DO remember matches, they just dont remember how their opponent faired.
but vince mcmahon was pretty limited.. if he were to be the champion, it would devalue it because he juts doesnt have the crediibility.
how can u credit ted for the ratings? he wasnt even a main eventer back in his time.. he was a chickenshti pussy who was too scared to fight. dont u think there were other factors? like the star power?
no he wasnt, randy orton was, and randy orton was booked better than he was.
lol.. the shield isnt going to main event, their run beating the top dogs is all finished man. cena will get his win back on a random raw, i can feel it.
no, tensai flopped because john cena ruined his momentum.. he was actually getting heat when he was paired with john laurinitis.
can you please read?? u didnt read it did you?
are u fucking serious? cena got his win back against triple h, shawn michaels, cm punk, and the rock.
Triple h beats cena at night of champions 08. cena gets his win back at survivor series 08.
shawn michaels beats cena on raw after WM 23. cena gets his win back at survivor series 08.
cm punk beats cena at survivor series 2011, cena gets his win back leading to the road to wrestlemania.
the rock beats cena at wm 27, cena wins at wm 28.
triple h was not a cowardly heel, he was a dominant heel. u keep on saying the same thing over and over, but all those chickenshit heels were not big draws. brock lesnar is though.
yes, cena did grin u idiot. i fucking saw it. are u blind?
that is the flaw of wwe creative team.
a DQ win? taking pride in a dq win? once again, ur hot garbage about most heels have to be chickenshit..
no, the next year u fucking idiot.. randy orton was put over by triple h at wrestlemania 24. also randy orton beat him at night of champions 2009.
jbl was not on his last legs.. he beat cena in 2008, and he retired in 2009. and cena didnt even put over jbl. cena got his win back on an episode of raw in 2009. so this is the flawed logic of wwe. its okay for faces to be equals, no matter what the size difference is, but for heels, they are never equals. nice logic, kid. the rock couldve faced undertaker, triple h, or kane. we already see the same old shit frmo john cena every time. his appeal is wearing off, his drawing ability is wearing off. let someone fresh, like cm punk, take the #1 spot
dont twist my words.. cena resorted to barbarism in a match against jbl.. its not the 1st time he did it... what, why the fuck are u going off irrelevant?
at least rey mysterio was over on his world championship reign.. people thought he was vulnerable and he gained instant sympathy.. john cena's push actually backfired. he is sooo invulnerable that it backfires and people start to hate him even more.. its a lose=lose situation.
what the fuck? read this..
oh my fucking god, u are taking ignorance to a whole new level. LOOK AT RANDY ORTON VS JOHN CENA'S IRONMAN MATCH.. do u consider randy orton getting 10 clean wins against john cena? no.. series of matches dont count as clean wins. it has to be the ENTIRE match and the WINNER OF THE ENTIRE MATCH, omg.
that wasn't batista's character.. his character was a chickenshit heel, and that was a horrible decision for a man his size. look at his charisma, his promo work, his in ring skills, everything about him screams monster heel. what a waste of talent, feeding him to cena.
what? stop nitpicking man, seriously. if u are trying to be cute, funny, cool, or all of the above, stop... its seriously just plain stupid.. stop nitpicking.. survivor series 2009 - john cena vs shawn michaels vs triple h.
you just said "just beating another main eventer".. so going by that logic, a main eventer beating another main eventer doesnt mean jack shit, right?
i did get some research, research that cm punk is a better draw than john cena.. and i know how to fucking spell.. and i dont stop swearing because u are pissing me off.
i dont think so anyways. john cena will ruin his push, just like he ruined kane's push, big show's push, ziggler's push, edge's push, and many more...
Amazing Blue
Registered Abuser
As much as I would Like to go with the rest of this thread, I feel the C.M. Punks 434 day title reign brought back a lot of prestige to the WWE title, and I would like to see more lengthy title regins. Not exactly on the level of Punk's, but I feel a 3 month regin is a little too short, especially for how dominant John Cena has been looking as of late.
I think the perfect time for Cena to drop the belt would be at Survivor Series. Have Daniel Bryan win the WWE Championship All-Stars Briefcase Money In the Bank-What ever the fuck it's called match, and say that He's going to cash in at WrestleMania 30. Have Bryan stay face until after Cena successfully defends the title at Survivor Series, and then have Bryan attack and cash in. This also put's a Bryan regin in a spot to have good, lengthy regin until facing the winner of the Royal Rumble at WrestleMania 30, C.M Punk!
The precedent has definitely been set with Punk's regin, and I feel a return to lengthy title runs will lead to bigger moments when the title changes hands. And we all know that the WWE is all about the Big Moments.
I think the perfect time for Cena to drop the belt would be at Survivor Series. Have Daniel Bryan win the WWE Championship All-Stars Briefcase Money In the Bank-What ever the fuck it's called match, and say that He's going to cash in at WrestleMania 30. Have Bryan stay face until after Cena successfully defends the title at Survivor Series, and then have Bryan attack and cash in. This also put's a Bryan regin in a spot to have good, lengthy regin until facing the winner of the Royal Rumble at WrestleMania 30, C.M Punk!
The precedent has definitely been set with Punk's regin, and I feel a return to lengthy title runs will lead to bigger moments when the title changes hands. And we all know that the WWE is all about the Big Moments.
Dave_duncan
Dark Match Winner
CmPunker said:
the only other possibility I can see is RVD winning money in the bamk and doimg the same as he did before. this would be a shame a I think rvd should win the title again but not off cena. someone that the fans actually rate and he could have a decent feud with.
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newwaveknight
You're Either Texus,Or Against Us
I am all for Daniel Bryan being WWE Champion, but I am WAY against him using the Push In A Briefcase to do it because
1) Daniel Bryan isn't a mid-card guy at this moment. PIAB should be reserved for mid-card guys who the fans are starting to like and they want to hotshot to a main-event spot.
2) Having Bryan do a sneak attack/cash-in effectively turns him heel, and the last thing we need is for D-Bry to go heel while he's got so much momentum and crowd support as a babyface.
1. all the people in the raw mitb are not mid carders.. christian, rvd, randy orton, cm punk, sheamus, and daniel bryan. all are top stars.. so what else are u supposed to do?
2.which is why u cash it in ahead of time, like at summerslam.
and dont be surprised if daniel bryan turns heel and loses his momentum. wwe has screwed up a lot of things, and i can already sense a heel turn. how many people were turned heel to be fed to cena? lets count, cm punk, kane, big show, ryback, etc..
newwaveknight
You're Either Texus,Or Against Us
I got fed to Cena also. So did <3ShieldGirl<3, so did Dagger Dias, so did Dr.
I think you got fed to Cena also. My dog got fed to Cena as well. It makes sense that Daniel Bryan will get fed to Cena also then.
Seriously, kid. Let the grown-ups talk.
implying that grown ups are always smarter than teenagers? not all grown ups are smart, and not all of them are superior just because you are older.. john cena is a selfish cunt, okay? he is devaluing the god damn championship right now. its not even funny.. i remember him saying, "its just leahter and gold".. SERIOUSLY??? are u fuckign serious?.. how can u disrespect the thing that legends haev been working hard for, like the rock, stone cold, hulk hogan, undertaker, hbk, etc.. are u serious john cena?
newwaveknight
You're Either Texus,Or Against Us
Yep, definitely a kid. You keep avoiding the question, so I'll ask again: How old are you? I'm guessing 12 or 13.
And bro, The Rock got fed to Cena too. Stone Cold, Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, and HBK all got fed to Cena as well. The WWE is so obsessed with making sure that everybody in the company is fed to Cena, that they even fed Cena to Cena. It was Cenaception!
i am 13 years old..
and do not u think i know u are being sarcastic? because i know that u are being sarcastic.. because obviously stone cold didnt agree to come back, hulk hogan didnt agree, and hbk DID get fed to cena.. and undertaker WILL get fed to cena because cena will break his streak..
but hulk hogan and stone cold and smart enough not to come back just to put over cena, because cena has already peaked.
newwaveknight
You're Either Texus,Or Against Us
I was RIGHT about your age!!!!
Alright, WrestleZone, give me my trophy and my +1 Internet now.
Bro, Stone Cold DID get fed to Cena. Why do you think he hasn't made any WWE appearances lately? Someone else is running his Twitter for him. Any pictures you see of him are actually Goldberg being his body double. You called it; the WWE didn't want ANYTHING to outshine John Cena, and Austin was the last piece of the puzzle. After Tough Enough, Cena ate him with some fava beans and a nice chianti.
Don't be so literal and don't try to be a funny person, because you are not. austin would never put over cena, becaues austin is smart, and he is just as egotistical as triple h.
newwaveknight
You're Either Texus,Or Against Us
Dude, there is a strong possibility of it.
http://tiny.cc/wwecenaversusaustinrumors
There's already rumors going around of an Austin vs. Cena match.
Seriously, kid, I'm trying to educate you here.
Don't think for a second i am going to click that link..
I saw the austin interview u idiot.. it was steve austin saying that he is not concerned about health issues, but concerned about the time and effort he has to put in.
and cena vs austin would be a horrible match. punk vs austin is way better
newwaveknight
You're Either Texus,Or Against Us
You see, you make outlandish claims, then don't post your sources of information. I post my sources of information and you don't even check them? Are you afraid that I will prove you wrong?
