How can someone hate Cena but love Orton?

[Poop Master Flex]

Personally I think Orton just appeals to a wider audience then Cena.

Cena's hugely popular with the kids, but thats about it for the guy. I also think the biggest thing Cena's going against Cena is his Hoganesque gimmick. Frankly its all been done before so a lot of people don't want to see that gimmick, I know I don't. I do like John Cena, but for selfish reasons I would like to see a gimmick change, its not going to happen anytime soon (and for business reasons he shouldn't) but I think a Cena gimmick change will help him down the road and give him a little more longevity.

Orton on the other hand is a more appealing gimmick and wrestler in general (IMO anyways). He plays his gimmick perfectly, he puts on eloquent promo's, he's the most popular wrestler in the world by far right now, and he can actually have great matches in the ring. Orton usually has a better match then Cena and he has won over hardcore and general fans alike. Cena has really only won over kids and general fans, most hardcores think the guy is boring, mostly because we know he's capable of more than 8-9 moves and a lot of us are sick of watching the same match we watched in the 80's with Hulk Hogan, Cena as a whole is played out, it will always appeal to kids (kids love the invincible super hero) but your older audience doesn't want to see the same thing we saw 20-30 years ago.

Orton wrestles a similar match every time I'll admit, but so does most wrestlers, but he shows alot more diversity and the setup is often very different each time (like a RKO from a diving block, an RKO from a finisher, a quick out-of-nowwhere RKO, a regular pounding on the mat RKO) and he will tweak his matches here and there so its not the same thing every time.

At the end of the day Orton appeals to a more broad audience and Cena appeals to kids and casuals. I like Cena but I totally understand why people would hate him. Anyone who hates Orton hates for the sake of being a hater.

 

[whatjusthappened]

When will you haters get it across your heads that it's a character they are TOLD to play. I read a post that said the character must evolve, and bashed Cena because he's been the same for many years.

Blame should not fall on the wrestlers directly, rather on CREATIVE and/or booking. They're writing the script, go complain to them, and tell them to change Cena's character. John (and every other wrestler out there) can only do as much as they are told. I know you'll say that they can improvise in the ring as well, but they are still limited in that way because of their GIVEN moveset.

Cena, Orton, whatever other face or wrestler you guys have hated on, they're playing their roles. They make money, and that's what's important. As stated above by 772Attitude most matches go the same way, it's just each character is GIVEN a different moveset.

hell if Cena was GIVEN a new moveset, you guys would probably still bash him.

 

[Rampage Bentley]

When will you haters get it across your heads that it's a character they are TOLD to play. I read a post that said the character must evolve, and bashed Cena because he's been the same for many years.

Blame should not fall on the wrestlers directly, rather on CREATIVE and/or booking. They're writing the script, go complain to them, and tell them to change Cena's character. John (and every other wrestler out there) can only do as much as they are told. I know you'll say that they can improvise in the ring as well, but they are still limited in that way because of their GIVEN moveset.

Cena, Orton, whatever other face or wrestler you guys have hated on, they're playing their roles. They make money, and that's what's important. As stated above by 772Attitude most matches go the same way, it's just each character is GIVEN a different moveset.

hell if Cena was GIVEN a new moveset, you guys would probably still bash him.

This would be a valid point... if we were talking about Yoshi Tatsu or Vance Archer. Cena can do whatever the hell he wants (in reason) if Chris Jericho and even The damn Miz have enough backstage swing to tweak their characters a bit, you know Cena sure as hell does. Nobody is "given" a moveset, these guys have all the freedom they want in the ring. Why would creative "give" Cena a limited moveset, but then turn and give a guy like CM Punk such an expansive one? I see the point your trying to make, but the restrictions you're talking about don't apply to guys like Cena

 

[Sicc Nick]

Eh, this is a pretty stupid thread in my opinion.

I'm gonna' get into it though. I think Cena is actually better than Orton, although if I were to call myself a fan of one of them, I'd say Orton.

Back in 2002, Cena was fuckin' awesome. He had many moves. Brainbuster suplex, Brainbuster DDT, Jackhammer powerslam, scoop powerslam, belly to belly suplex, belly to back suplex, german suplex, inverted brainbuster, back breaker, shoulder break, arm drags and snapremares, running shoulder block, turnbuckle splash, suplerplex, vaulting body press, obviously vertical suplex and scoop slam, and of course the Death Valley Driver, then named FU, then named Attitude Adjustment.

Orton had just as many moves then, and you wanted Orton to succeed, and you can tell he was gonna' get the push, but Cena was the guy who busted his ass and made the matches mean something, so in the beginning of a show you weren't bored. You had Cena to entertain you.

Obviously WWE Creative has held that back, and he is down to those six moves. Orton always had the "it" factor, the promo skills, the character, and the political power or nudge to make him sustain a main event spot.

Comparing the two is pointless. They are even, but if you're gonna' say "Cena only knows 5 moves", shut up, 'cause if he was able to do whatever he wanted in the ring without no one jerking the chain, he'd be as good as Daniel Bryan, believe it or not. Orton though, could never be that good, but on the mic? People think of him as a new Stone Cold.

So yeah. Fail topic. Move on. There is no comparison between them 'cause they're equal.

 

[772Attitude]

And also even if a heel gets the championship you guy's will still find something to complain about. Such as Sheamus "oh he shouldn't have won the championship yet he rose to the top to fast". The point is no matter what WWE does you guys will constantly complain, and complain, and complain. They can't win with you guys.

 

[Undar8d]

Orton wrestles a similar match every time I'll admit, but so does most wrestlers, but he shows alot more diversity and the setup is often very different each time (like a RKO from a diving block, an RKO from a finisher, a quick out-of-nowwhere RKO, a regular pounding on the mat RKO) and he will tweak his matches here and there so its not the same thing every time.

At the end of the day Orton appeals to a more broad audience and Cena appeals to kids and casuals. I like Cena but I totally understand why people would hate him. Anyone who hates Orton hates for the sake of being a hater.

I think you bring a valid point into why Cena's character isn't as appealing as Randy Orton's gimmick, but the last sentence is what struck me. Just because I think Randy Orton is boring on the mic, somewhat in the ring and horrible as a champion, doesn't make me a hater for the sake of it.

You can't name any good feuds or any awesome matches Randy Orton has had, except for the ones where he's chasing after the title for the majority, because his bad-ass sort of gimmick can't fully apply in this sort of era. The only feud I've liked of Randy's is with him versus Undertaker really. One of the major reasons why Randy Orton gets cheered is because of his gimmick and not because he's "all that."

Cena is in a very unfortunate spot at the moment, because he's been built up so much as the face of the company, he can't revert back to being some sort of rapper heel gimmick. WWE is starting some serious downfall rates in pay-per-view buys, ratings, etc.

If Cena becomes a part of Nexus and becomes a major heel, it could turn out to be a major fail or a very good move. However, as much as I agree that Cena needs to think of something to refresh his character, in a business perspective, it should not happen until WWE has fully established some major stars.

 

[ashcjtw]

Agreed Orton is current and for the future but Cena does not get booed by the fans he is trying to please... he just gets booed by the older generation who feel embarressed in liking Cena because he isn't actually playing to our wants but he is playing to the children's wants, which happens to be the best money option for WWE. We "older" generation are now beginning to like those small indy shows and ROH or even TNA because promotions like those don't spoon feed the kids for their money. It's a FACT and now people are gonna say I hate WWE and I'm some idiotic TNA fan. Just to make it clear I like WWE... AND TNA. No harm in it.

first i want to say i share the same opinion on the older generation going to to ROH TNA or indy feds to get the wrestling we prefer...but then you say "some idiotic TNA fan" so TNA fans are stupid then? cuz we enjoy a different style of wrestling we're idiotic? cuz we dont like vince mcmahons sudden PG rated turn we're idiotic? i doubt anyone can be idiotic when te wrestling we watch houses the most incredible in ring talent to ever walk in a building-kurt angle-truth be told i dont like cena or orton..both are 5 move of doom guys and while alot of people hate cena for his antics in iterviews and his superman tactics i agree with the guy that started the tread that ortons in ring convulsions are embarrassing..he flails around the ring like on of those giant used car sale inflatable puppets..he looks stupid...and oooo yea cuz his RKO comes out of nowhere doesn't mean he's talented...just means he watches alot of old DDP matches...to be honest i watch wwe for the undercard guys..the mid talent..the main eventers are all 5 move of doom garbage...predicatable and boring...hell 10 seconds into raw and i knew morrison was brian's partner and at the end of the match i knew it was gonna be triple threat and i knew khali was comin out to sheamus's challenge...face it cena is boring unless you're a little kid and orton is just as boring

 

[ashcjtw]

Im not sure if I count for the older generation or the kid generation because Im 15. But I dont Like Cena Im just sick of him winning all the TIME. But I also Dont like Orton either Im sick of seeing the RKO on everybody like 5x on RAW every night. My favorites are Christian, Chris Jericho Edge, Taker, Nexus, HHH, and Sheamus(Mostly because it Cool when he says Fella). But to the topic I really dont know. Because like I said I dont like either.

because it's cool when he says fella...there you go people..whats wrong with the wrestling community today...the reason people you hate are in the top spots...cuz kids (yes you're 15 yourein the kid generation) likes apasty boring wrestler just cuz he says fella....god damn it no wonder the great khali still has a job

 

[peep4life]

because it's cool when he says fella...there you go people..whats wrong with the wrestling community today...the reason people you hate are in the top spots...cuz kids (yes you're 15 yourein the kid generation) likes apasty boring wrestler just cuz he says fella....god damn it no wonder the great khali still has a job

Damn calm down It was meant as a joke and you took it the wrong way Im sorry your old ass dont get young peoples jokes. And thats your opinion that he's boring I find him a Very good Charcter that WWE was missing since they turned Finlay to a joke and thats is a Tough Irishmen Learn to take jokes

*EDIT- For the record Khali really I dont like Khali they turned him into joke and he needs to be off tv for good*

 

[ahbooya]

THERE IS A REASON WHY JOHN CENA IS IN MOVIES,ADVERTISEMENTS,MORE CHARITY AND THE ONE WHO MAIN EVENTS WRESTLEMANIA AND NOT ORTON THAT IS BECAUSE CENA IS BETTER !!!!!!!!!!!!! HE IS ON THE HOGAN,ROCK AND AUSTIN LEVEL THAT ORTON IS FAR FROM ORTON TO ME HAS FALLEN HE WAS THE MOST ENTERTAINING HEEL BACK IN HIS LEGEND KILLER DAYS NOW HE IS STALE AND BORING

there's so much wrong in here it makes me wonder if you've been fucking watching WWE at all.

Orton's been in the main event for 2 of the last 3 Mania's - beating Cena to retain his title at WM XXIV, and HHH at WM 25. Also Orton was cast in The Marine 2 but pulled out with his shoulder injury and is now in an upcoming movie "That's What I Am" (think thats what its called now, used to be Big Red).

Orton is on that elite level right now, and he's surpassed Cena's to the extent of the massive pops he gets week in and out on RAW compared to Cena. If anyone were to be asked who's more stale right now between Orton and Cena, 95% would say Cena.

The only thing I find more interesting right now is Taker/Kane with Paul Bearer back. So you can go back to thinking you've been watching WWE now.

 

[manstis1804]

I'm down with just about everything the OP said. I'll focus on the positive, John Cena has been damned impressive working with Nexus. The promos are good and the ring work has been great. He sells great for all of them, works more of a "veteran" style with more mat wrestling and holds, and works creative spots to get everyone's signature moves in while adding a few new moves of his own. That gauntlet match on Raw a few weeks back was quite a performance by Cena. Compared to Orton, he has much more energy in the ring, Orton doesn't even seem interested unless he's making RKOVIPER faces.

 

[El Rev sXe]

Batman vs. Superman. Orton's Batman is craft and cagey, quick and smart, borderline crazy. Older fans and some younger fans like that, just like older fans and some younger fans like Batman. Batman's edgy and cool.

John Cena's Superman is John Cena's Superman. Strong, invincible even. Always on the side of good, always heroic, always pure. Little kids love that, eat that up - they want to BE Superman! Older fans hate that because we're old and cynical. Heroism is lame, we want the rogue hero, the anti-hero.

As simple as that. Alot of people likes the idea of the anti-hero. I'm not sure how Randy is the anti-hero of the WWE, he just has this air! I completely disagree with the OP, I mean yeah Randy also have only like 7-8 moves however they aren't as boring as Cena's moveset. Granted, the STFU is a great, great move well executed by Cena. But the tackle, that weird spin/back suplex, the 5 knuckle shuffle!!!?? I mean, come one, the "you can't see me" thing is a totally crap! I hate that move! Orton can make the RKO out of nowhere, so that bores you? Ok, you would rather prefer that he hits every time the move so obviously? The punt, simple but effective, haven't saw it since Mania.

The promos? Come on man, some other poster said it perfectly, Cena can do all the cheesy things that kids like. Orton, what the hell is he going to do as a bad ass in a PG rated TV?

I think it's pretty accurated (and geek) the comparison with Superman and Batman, I like way more Batman than the "man of steel".

 

[radec]

orton is overrated! cena is more entertaining in ring. Orton after he reached main event statues well he hasent tryed as hard to keep us interested. It must be his face turn cause its very boring.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

As simple as that. Alot of people likes the idea of the anti-hero. I'm not sure how Randy is the anti-hero of the WWE, he just has this air! I completely disagree with the OP, I mean yeah Randy also have only like 7-8 moves however they aren't as boring as Cena's moveset. Granted, the STFU is a great, great move well executed by Cena. But the tackle, that weird spin/back suplex, the 5 knuckle shuffle!!!?? I mean, come one, the "you can't see me" thing is a totally crap! I hate that move! Orton can make the RKO out of nowhere, so that bores you? Ok, you would rather prefer that he hits every time the move so obviously? The punt, simple but effective, haven't saw it since Mania.

The promos? Come on man, some other poster said it perfectly, Cena can do all the cheesy things that kids like. Orton, what the hell is he going to do as a bad ass in a PG rated TV?

I think it's pretty accurated (and geek) the comparison with Superman and Batman, I like way more Batman than the "man of steel".

yeah batman is my favorite superhero too.but the main thing is it is even more simpler than you guys think.orton is simply an alternative.cena has been on top for too long and people have wanted to see some other babyface with the title for ages.we all regard stone cold as possibly the greatest baabyface ever.how long did his babyface run last?four years which includes one year where he was out due to injury.cena is just like hulk hogan in the early 90s.way past his expiration date.

and yeah while everyone is jumping on the orton bandwagon i do have severe doubts to how long this orton run will last.because in 7 years he has had just one great match(vs foley at backlash).his catchphrase is "ill hit you with an rko".not exactly the words you expect out of a badass do you???

but yeah cena is not much better too

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Here is my list on why lots of people prefer Orton over Cena:

1. Cena's character is portrayed as infallible. Orton's character is fallible. Goes back to how some people on here brought up the Superman/Batman shtick. More people like their heroes to fall from time to time.

2. Orton isn't always in the title picture. Cena has been in the title picture up until recently. Most of us have been burned out on Cena being in the Main Event always.

3. Cena (up until recently) did the same exact moves the same exact ways setting up another predictable move and then pin. Orton is known for mixing it up in the ring and his RKO is starting to become more and more unpredictable. Remember Evan Bourne vs. Randy Orton? IWC talked about that for weeks.

4. Cena caters to a certain demographic (kids and teenage girls). Orton caters to everyone; it doesn't matter if you're 8 or 28. He is a badass character that does what he wants and doesn't have to resort to cussing or flipping people off like Austin did. Cena's "Never Quit" attitude is exclusive for kids and he serves as a role model that way. Orton isn't a role model- giving him free range with his character.

5. John Cena's gimmick has barely changed since 2005. Randy Orton became "The Viper" in what? 2009? And even then before that he was "The Legend Killer" and before that he was a 3rd Generation Superstar. Orton keeps his character fresh in other words.

I enjoy seeing both athletes spit their gimmick on the mic and portray their character in the ring. I root for both when it comes right down to it. But that was your question so I hope you've been given some valid answers here on this thread.

 

[martymcfly]

I haven't read through all the comments, but I have to applaud the original poster, as for a long time I have felt the exact same thing. Cena matches and Orton matches, to me, have become the exact same thing: 1. Long beatdown throughout most of the match on cena/orton. 2. Desperate comeback that gets stopped, followed by a shorter beatdown. 3. Opponent goes for finishing move. 4. STF/Attitude adjustment/RKO from "out of nowhere!" 5. match concludes.

People complain about cena's 5 move set all the time, and while I agree orton has more, it's not much. The only difference is that randy is boring. Boring on the mic, boring in the ring, while at least cena can cut a great promo and is a lot more energetic in the ring.

 

[Dyscord]

My reason for not liking Cena's character isn't because of his moveset. It's because of WWE booking him to be god. It gets boring after a while.

 

[Final Form Snyper.]

How is that?

The Rock was booked similar as was Stone Cold and I bet you Dyscord that you didn't have a problem when that was the case. People do seem to forget that their past favorites were booked in similar fashion showing Hypocrisy at its best there. Hey I'm someone who hated John Cena I really did......... but did was the word used there because whilst he is being booked in high regard he has earned his right to be in his spot.

 

[timostag]

I agree Orton is becoming another Cena because he is being booked as the WWE god that will not lose! IMO this is boring and makes every match the same.

I agree that both Cena and Orton have very few moves they can pull off, although congratulations to John for learning #6 the drop kick even if he has still got a long way to go before he can out dropkick Bob Holly.

The reason I have always booed Cena and not Orton, is the old obsession around here....ATTITUDE, Cena is alwas the goody goody little geek you always beat up as a kid where as Orton because of his run as a heel has developed an attitude and style into his character, IMO. I stopped watching WWE when Cena first turned up with the rapper thing he did (thank god) so I'm proberly biased because I didn't see heel Cena.

Hopefully WWE will use him now being part of Nexus to buid him into a great HEEL the develope his character rather than the 1 diamenional gooy goody I see him as now. (yes I know he is the face of the company, but I dont see why there has to be 1 face of WWE).

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

For you guys who really think Orton is a better wrestler than John Cena, you need to watch Sheamus vs Orton and Barrett vs Cena from the PPV last night.

Orton completely no sold, sandbagged for Sheamus, was flat out in cruise control and didn't do Sheamus do any favors. He is a horrible babyface; he buried anything Sheamus threw at him. He fucking climbed the cage like the match was in the main event. The match was itself was atrociously crowd killing. How in the blue hell do you kill a Dallas crowd? You did what Orton did last night.

Barrett vs Cena. Jebus f'n chris. Not only this was the best match of the night, it was by miles and countries and galaxies and any other known unit of measure far the best match of the night. This was Barrett's first 10 minute + match, which was closer to 20 minutes. Barrett had his "green" moments, but I'd be damn if Cena didn't make him look like a fucking star in this match.

Wade Barrett is ready for a title.. I just really hope that match ain't against Orton for it.

 

[Troll™]

It is very easy to like Orton while disliking Cena. It can be either due to bad tastes, or the inability to realize that this isn't 2005 anymore. If you are talking about coherent individuals, then its clearly impossible.

 

[JBK2008]

I'm a cynical, anti hero 22 going on 23 year old fan. I admire and respect Cena, but I will cheer Orton. The Batman/Superman comparison is great. I'm def the Batman fan here. Orton's moves are looking more realistic and the RKO does seemingly look like it can be hit from everywhere! Cena just keeps drawing whether it's boos or cheers but he carries the flag proud. I get it. It's cool, but not for me. I do boo him when he comes out. If he wins, good for him and the company, but if and when he faces Orton, I'll be on Orton's side all the way.

 

[RH23]

I think the reason people like Orton over Cena is because Cena is waaaaay to predictable. I mean come on we all know how he acts what he will pretty much do before he does it. With Orton, he will do something the fans will really like one minute, and then all the sudden do something the fans would hate. He is way more exciting to watch because of that. People want edgy and exciting, not boring and predictable. Have Cena turn heel and then maybe people will start to like him more.

 

[Aeon Mathix]

I honestly have never had a problem with either Cena or Orton. Cena was my favorite wrestler from about 2003-2005 (go figure right?) but after that I didn't hate him at all, I just kind of got bored by his superhero gimmick. Nowadays there is no point to hate him because I know he is here to stay for a long time. I just don't mind him and Cena has made superstars look like gold in the past as he did with Barrett last night.

Orton on the other hand I have loved since his evolution days and I love him even more as The Viper. Ya he may have a limited moveset but what fucking wrestler doesn't? I tune into Raw every week to see an RKO and thats what people want to see from him. People didn't pay to watch stone cold wrestle or cheer for him to wrestle, all they wanted was the stunner and thats how it is with Randy right now people jizz their pants when he hits the RKO. No not a Orton/Austin comparison im sick of those just pointing out the obvious

 

[Flawless-Talk]

Before joining and therefore posting, I was an avid reader of this forum and, I have to say, I have noticed a trend of members of the IWC bashing any top face the WWE has who seems to be building and gaining momentum. A few weeks ago, there was a lot of hate for Cena, with everybody swooning over Orton, branding him the next SCSA, but now that Orton has won the WWE Championship (and arguably squashed the momentum of some, but that will come), people seem to be souring on him.

His moveset hasn't changed, he still hits the RKO out of nowhere on anybody in the vicinity, still uses few moves in the ring, but before the IWC was high on him but now he seems to be getting a lot of heat. A few months ago, Cena seemed to be earning a lot of heat, but now that he's out of the title picture and has been in a feud with Nexus (possibly turning him heel), a lot of the IWC is high on him. Cena's moveset also hasn't really changed, besides the fact that he's added a dropkick, something he used years ago. The moves the wrestlers make have nothing to do with the wrestler themselves, rather to do with creative and how they are restricted.

Honestly, I think the IWC hate Cena and love Orton because it is the 'cool' thing to do. It was cool to hate the good guy, the guy who has all the morals, but now that guy seems to be turning hell, everybody wants to cheer for him and sing his praises, whereas Orton is taking over as face, something that has been wanted forever, and people have decided to boo him and criticize him.

I think Orton will now be gaining the heat Cena has, if Cena turns heel, so I really have a feeling that Orton will no longer be loved, but pissed upon. It's already starting. I don't think the love and hate is really to do with their moveset (while they both are limited, it's creative, not them), but with the 'cool' thing to do.