First Round: San Francisco - Bryan Danielson vs. Diamond Dallas Page

Discussion in 'The Tokyo Region' started by klunderbunker, Apr 19, 2010.

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Who Wins This Matchup?

  1. Bryan Danielson

  2. Diamond Dallas Page

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. ZeroVX

    ZeroVX 2-Time WZCW Mayhem Champion

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    So because Danielson hasn't won anything in one of the big companies, he's not as good as someone who's world title reigns are very underwhelming? Well, if we operate under that logic, why is Danielson even in this tournament? Hell, ECW wasn't really one of the big companies when you think about it, so take Raven out of it too. Rhino too. And Rick Martel, since AWA was always behind WWE and NWA. Nick Bockwinkel should go while we're at it. And let's not forget Verne Gagne. In fact, let's get rid of anyone outside of America. What have they done in one of the "big companies" anyway?

    See the stupidity there? Saying that Danielson would lose to DDP because he hasn't done anything in WWE yet, even though he's been on their programs for all of two months, is a really weak argument. He made ROH notable. If it wasn't for him, no one would be talking about ROH as much as they are, and it would just be another indy fed. And it seems as though because he's done a lot of his work in a "indy fed", that it doesn't mean anything or that it doesn't measure up. Hence, people brush him off as an IWC darling who's overrated.

    Watch any match Danielson is involved in. If you can seriously call him overrated, you're either lying, don't know what you're talking about, or have zero taste. This is someone who's earned his reputation as one of the best today and possibly in history, which is more than a lot of today's wrestlers can say. To write him off just because he hasn't done anything in WWE yet is an insult to him and his work.
     
    #51
  2. FromTheSouth

    FromTheSouth You don't want it with me.

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    This is ludicrous.

    Cattle mutilation wouldn't work on page. Unlike the guys in ROH, he has muscles that would get in the way.

    The big match atmosphere would intimidate Danielson. He has never wrestled in front of 2,000, much less 20,000, people.

    DDP outwrestled Chris Benoit and Booker T (who was quite good technically in WCW) and almost outbrawled Goldberg. He has pinned Hogan. Danielson hasn't even met him.
     
    #52
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  3. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    The AWA and ECW were both better companies then ROH has ever been in terms of relevancy. Plus, the guys you mentioned at least did something in the WWE or WCW. Danielson has done nothing.

    You do know wrestling isn't all about the matches? It's also about being entertaining outside of the ring and showing a lot of personality. Danielson doesn't compare to DDP in that regard. ROH is a completely different compnay from any of the major companies. They are all about the actual matches and not so much the other theatrics that go on. Of course Danielson is going to have a lot of great matches because his talent combined with the fact that he is always given adequate time and for the most part has another solid worker in the ring with him.

    DDP wasn't always given those luxuries. Obviously he isn't going to be able to put on amazing technical matches with guys like Hogan, Dave Sullivan, and Buff Bagwell. He also didn't have many opportunity to go thirty minutes in every match.

    Overall DDP is the better professional wrestler. He may be not as good of a technical wrestler but he is a shit ton more entertaining and has had far more success in the industry. Daniels loses here.
     
    #53
  4. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    I fucking hate me some DDP. There I said it. Anyone who wants to give me shit for voting for that reason can. DDP is an overrated talent who was only used because he pimped out his wife to Eric Bischoff. DDP was an OK worker and of course he's going to be made to look good... his NEIGHBOR and pal was Eric Bischoff.

    DDP is one dimensional and is only dangerous because of the Diamond Cutter. Danielson's a great ring technician and would take DDP to school. Makes no difference who drew more money and who put more asses in the seat. It's not a bigger draw contest... it's a wrestling contest and DDP wouldn't beat Danielson.
     
    #54
  5. Muffin Top Merkley

    Muffin Top Merkley Be a man!

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    Bryan Danielson is a good wrestler, there is no denying that. But Bryan Danielson has never accomplished anything aside from the indy’s. I think Danielson is getting as much love her as he is now only because he is such a star on the independent wrestling scene and some wrestling fans are “smart.”

    DDP, is a good wrestler who was a huge hit with wrestling fans during the wrestling’s biggest period. DDP has beaten wrestling’s biggest names more times than Danielson has beaten mediocre ones.


    When we have this tournament in 10 – 15 years, you might have legit points to make and evidence to back up your Danielson is better claim, but for today and this year’s tournament, there is no evidence that makes Danielson better than DDP.

    Another thing is, something could happen to Danielson tonight and it prevents him from ever wrestling another match in his life. Are you still going to vote for what Danielson COULD[/B} have done in his career?
     
    #55
  6. TLC

    TLC Yeah, bitch! Magnets!

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    DDP gets the win here. DDP has beat some of the biggest names in the busines and was wrestling in front of thousands of fans weekly. I don't care if Danielson can wrestle rings around DDP he still wouldn't beat DDP. Maybe in a decade or so Danielson might make it further but right now he has nothing that can hold up to DDP's acomplishments. Danielson can't even beat Khali who was fucking beat by Ziggler but would you put Ziggler past DDP? I doubt it.
     
    #56
  7. FunKay the Inevitable

    FunKay the Inevitable People Like Me, We Don't Play

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    No as I've stated roughly four times now, I'm voting because I think Danielson is the better wrestler. That is it. That is the main reason. Lariat has the post that is best for debating with.
     
    #57
  8. ZeroVX

    ZeroVX 2-Time WZCW Mayhem Champion

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    AWA = always behind NWA and WWE. ECW = always behind WCW and WWE, but with a rabid fanbase. ROH = behind TNA and WWE, but with a rabid fanbase. Yes, ROH is less relevant. Clearly.

    Danielson became the face of a company when it first got into PPV and helped make it notable. It's because of Danielson that the section on this forum is "ROH, Independents, and International". I think that's more successful than someone who hasn't held a world title for two weeks, even though he held it three times.
     
    #58
  9. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Just the mere fact that Danielson is in the ballpark in this matchup just goes to show how ignorant and smarky the Wrestlezone readers are. Do you guys even realize how important and tough DDP was in professional wrestling? The guy was a mainstay in WCW and had multiple world championship reigns. And you want to compare him with an "experienced indy guy"? Because that's all that Danielson really is, anyway.

    Guys, wake up and choose DDP.
     
    #59
  10. Thriller Ant

    Thriller Ant Beep Bop Boop

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    D-Man, I'm not arguing how good DDP was in WCW. He was extremely over and a very important main event guy during its heyday.

    But how I voted in this match, and how I will in most of the tourney, is who would win if the two men faced off one-on-one. DDP has the Diamond Cutter, but the rest of his moveset other than that very good finisher is pretty meh. Danielson, on the other hand, has gotten victories with a variety of moves and can wear down DDP, who was very old in his prime.

    Dragon can avoid the Diamond Cutter and can eliminate DDP with the Cattle Mutilation, Triangle Choke, Crossface Chickenwing, the Regalplex, or any number of other moves.
     
    #60
  11. Suneeboy

    Suneeboy Big Boot, Leg Drop, 1....2....3

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    Danielson gets bumped in the 1st round here. DDP was a draw, a champion, was over as over gets in the era of the Austin's, Rock's, and Goldberg's. I am surprised that Danielson got this many votes. No way he can match up with DDP who just has too much fucking guts to tap out to an armbar. He's beaten way tougher opponents than Danielson. He makes it to the ropes, scuffles a little bit...Diamond Cutter. Really should be a glorified squash match if you ask me.
     
    #61
  12. Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson DA-DA Da Da Da Bah Da Da DADADA

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    I LOVE Danielson. I've been a huge fan of his, and it was through him that I became a casual fan of ROH. Checking out his stuff made me go deeper into following ROH, and although I'm not an ROH die-hard by any means, I still watched and became a fan of the product thanks to him (and CM Punk as well, but it was finding out about Danielson that made me tune into ROH to begin with and check out some of their shows online a few years ago). Fact of the matter is that he has a VERY bright future, and he will someday be WWE Champion. The best has yet to come for Danielson. That is the point in this argument though. The best has yet to come.

    At this stage in their careers, DDP takes it here in a close one. DDP has done more against better competition, has main evented major PPVs, has won an array of titles in WCW, including being a World Champion. Like it's been said, he held his own in the ring with some of the best and biggest wrestlers in history. He was very entertaining in the ring as well. I think what also needs to be said is that DDP was like a fine wine. As he got older, he got better. He was also a great wrestler. He got VERY innovative with the Diamond Cutter, being able to pull it out in almost any situation.

    Check this out:

    [YOUTUBE]keMz1rAUlIc[/YOUTUBE]

    [YOUTUBE]FzE8KlSD6_s[/YOUTUBE]

    [YOUTUBE]G-X1esvAtq4[/YOUTUBE]

    How fucking cool is that? In those three videos, not only did I show three incredibly innovative spots with the Diamond Cutter, but they were also on three of the best the business has to offer... Guerrero, Goldberg, and The Big Show. Diamond Dallas Page was one of the best wrestlers in WCW history, and is easily one of the all-time greats of this sport, whether people realize it or not. Remember, this is a kayfabe tournament. DDP at this point, is more proven than Danielson, having done more, and beaten better competition. DDP's been at the top of a major promotion. Danielson hasn't gotten to that point, yet.

    Years from now, you can probably swing it in Danielson's favor, when he accomplishes more. But DDP, in his prime, was pretty much the complete package, and I honestly think he's a dark horse to go pretty far in this tournament. I consider myself a bigger fan of Danielson than DDP, but this is a tournament where you need to be objective and put your biases aside.

    DDP takes it in a close one.
     
    #62
  13. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Know what? I'll give you this one. Let's vote on who could win in a kayfabe matchup.

    So ask yourself this: Could Danielson defeat Randy Savage? Could he defeat Curt Henning? How about Bret Hart? Wait a minute... how about defating Hogan, Flair and Sting in a fatal fourway for the Unites States Championship?!? Yeah... I didn't think so.

    Page, on the other hand, has done all of this. Therefore, using your theory, Page should EASILY defeat Danielson in a kayfabe match. And I doubt that you could pull out some indy names that Danielson defeated who could top Page's list.
     
    #63
  14. Thriller Ant

    Thriller Ant Beep Bop Boop

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    You're trying to turn this into a pissing contest of so-and-so beat so-and-so who beat so-and-so, and that's not what I am saying here. I'm saying that you put DDP in his prime and Bryan Danielson in his prime in a ring. Forget where they are and where they have been and where they are going. Who wins this match? I agree that DDP was a big deal in WCW, but I really do not think that he could beat Danielson one-on-one. Nothing more, nothing less.
     
    #64
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  15. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    No pissing match here. It's just that a perfect determination of how good someone is in a ring is attributed to who they defeat. I'm not going to dismiss DDP just because he isn't the "king of the indies" and doesn't have the "skilled moveset" like Danielson does. Fact of the matter is that Bryan Danielson is 5'10" and 190lbs while DDP is 6'5" and 253 lbs. Danielson traveled the country and wrestled nobodies in gymnasiums and banquet halls while DDP was winning world championships. DDP has defeated WORLD CLASS wrestlers. Danielson hasn't.

    You don't want to put this stuff into the equation because it completely disproves your theory that Danielson stands a chance in this match.
     
    #65
  16. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
    Staff Member Moderator

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    I was never all that wild about DDP. I thought he was a solid overall wrestler and did have some bright moments in his career. However, I do think he was overrated.

    Bryan Danielson is somebody that's impressed me with his abilities on NXT but, the fact remains that I don't follow ROH where Danielson was a virtual god. While I have little doubt that he's a better all around wrestler than DDP, the fact that Danielson hasn't won a single match on NXT, in spite of all his incredible in-ring ability, tilts my vote in DDP's favor. I like Danielson, I hope he winds up winning NXT and has a bright future in the WWE.

    I know the smarks love Danielson and I know a lot of indy fans love him as well. I'm quickly becoming a fan of him myself, but I can't vote him over DDP at this time. DDP has been to the big dance, he's won some big victories. If Danielson's match performance in NXT had been more impressive than it has, in terms of win/loss ratio, then I might have gone his way. If he can't beat Darren Young, I don't see him going over DDP.
     
    #66
  17. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    Yeah, not really how that works homie. ROH has never been as relevant as ECW and AWA were. Just because they are the third biggest company at this moment doesn't automatically put them on par with what ECW and AWA were.

    Ok so he made a fairly shitty company a little less shitty. All ROH is, is a glorified indy fed. They have a lot of technical wrestling talent there but as far as the total package goes there aren't many guys there who will ever main event in one of the major companies. And don't act like Danielson carried ROH and made them relevant by himself. Guys like Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels, CM PUNK, and AJ Styles were all there as well.
     
    #67
  18. Thriller Ant

    Thriller Ant Beep Bop Boop

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    I'm not dismissing DDP either. But you can't forget that Danielson has beaten guys like CM Punk, a former World Champion, Samoa Joe, former TNA Champion, Takeshi Morishima, GHC Heavyweight Champion, Katsuhiko Nakajima, a multi-time champ in Japan, Lance Storm and many others. He has beaten big names too, they just get ignored because they were in the indies.

    The banquet hall argument is a joke as well. Just because Dragon was ROH World Champion in front of a few thousand people instead of tens of thousands like DDP doesn't discredit it, or else all the guys from the territory era were less impressive as well because they sure as hell didn't have huge crowds either.
     
    #68
  19. ZeroVX

    ZeroVX 2-Time WZCW Mayhem Champion

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    AWA and ECW were supposed to give an alternative to the "big two" of their respective times. Did they, or did they not do that? ROH does the exact same thing today. People sick of "sports entertainment" or whatever problem they have with WWE and TNA can watch their show and find something they enjoy.

    Congratulations. You've convinced me that you have no idea what you're talking about. If we were to operate under your logic, then we could just call ECW a glorified hardcore indy fed. And it DOES. NOT. MATTER. If someone won the world title in ROH, it means they're the top guy in their company. It does not mean it's not impressive, just because they didn't win the title in WWE or TNA. You can't discredit someone just because they didn't do anything in what you consider a "big company". That's bullshit of a grade-A caliber.

    Also, Punk, Joe, Styles, and Daniels were all gone from ROH when they went to PPV. They helped build ROH, but Danielson made it popular.
     
    #69
  20. RVDgurl

    RVDgurl Mrs. Danielson

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    So DDP should win this because he's been held champions in WCW, is that right? And little ol' Bryan Danielson's accomplishment mean nothing because he's just a guy who wrestles in high school gymnasiums, right?

    Check this out- DDP didnt become a the WCW world champion for the first time until 1999. That's well after the company started to go downhill. Fast. DDP was the captain of a ship that was halfway under water and he's considered better simply because his championship belt has the letters "WCW" on it. That's crazy.

    Bryan Danielson's accomplishments aren't limited to ROH. Yeah, he was the man in that company for years, but he has held a slew of titles all over the country. Independents not big enough for you? He's also held titles in Pro Wrestling Noah and New Japan. Aren't they the biggest companies in Japan? Danielson's wrestled in front of 50,000 fans at the Tokyo Dome, not just 1,000 fans in a bingo hall.

    Not to mention that the Wrestling Observer named him Best Technical Wrestler for 5 years straight. Yes, 2005-2009. He was also named the Most Outstanding Wrestler from 2006-2009. That's not "Most Outstanding Independent Wrestler"- we're talking overall. That means that he stood out above the entire WWE and TNA rosters respectively. Oh yeah, and he had a Match of the Year honor in 2007 for his work with Morishima.

    I know that it cool to hate on Bryan Danielson. But the arguement that "he hasn't done anything in the big leagues yet" is really getting old. He's an accomplished wrestler all over the globe. There is a such thing as good wrestling outside of a WWE ring.

    Danielson > DDP. Period.
     
    #70
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  21. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    You really struggle to understand simple logic. I said ROH was never and will never be as good as ECW and AWA were. All you are saying is that ROH offers an alternative. While that is true, it's not what I'm getting at. Just because it offers an alternative like AWA and ECW did, does not mean it was as good those companies.


    Do you know what reading comprehension is? In one of your earlier posts you had a list of names from ECW and AWA like Raven and Rhyno that you said shouldn't be in this tournament because their greatest success came in a company like ECW and I countered that by saying they at least were able to be very relevant and somewhat successful in the bigger companies as well. Up until now, Danielson hasn't. I agree ECW was basically a glorified indy fed (still better then ROH mind you), but at least those guys proved they can be successful at the other level. Danielson has yet to do that.
     
    #71
  22. LigerBomb

    LigerBomb Getting Noticed By Management

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    DDP has the height and reach advantage, yet his age and lack of speed/conditioning will be a stumbling block. I believe Danielson has the tools necessary to pull out a victory here. Neither man is a powerhouse so this will more than likely be a striking and ground work match in which Danielson has a clear advantage in the latter and has the speed and training to largely avoid the former. Voting Bryan Danielson on this one.
     
    #72
  23. ZeroVX

    ZeroVX 2-Time WZCW Mayhem Champion

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    You've said that ROH won't be as good as AWA or ECW, but you haven't said how. What was so great about AWA that made them more than just an alternative? Explain that and maybe you'll have a valid point.

    I said that to prove a point. That just because they weren't as good in one company as they were in another is irrelevant. It doesn't negate the fact that they were still successful in the one company. The same situation is here. Just because Danielson hasn't been successful in one company doesn't negate how important he was to another one. That is much more important than just holding a title in WCW.
     
    #73
  24. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    The AWA at its peak was not that far behind WWE and NWA if at all. They had huge names on their roster like Hulk Hogan, Andre the Giant, Jesse Ventura and Bobby Heenan. Even after the first talent raid they were still able to have great success by aligning themselves with some NWA promoters. They didn't really start to fall far behind until around 86 or 87. ROH has never come even close to competing with the big two.

    As far as ECW goes, they were able to stay afloat during a time where WWE and WCW were at their best. ROH never had to deal with the type of competition that ECW did. While ROH is closer to what ECW was then it is to what the AWA was, it still doesn't compare.

    It isn't irrelevant because again ROH is not on the same level as any of the major companies. It'd be like me saying that Brooks Bollinger is a better quarterback then a guy like Tony Romo because Bollinger was the MVP of the UFL.
     
    #74
  25. ZeroVX

    ZeroVX 2-Time WZCW Mayhem Champion

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    Hogan never had an official reign with the AWA title. Andre never had one at all, and neither did Ventura, or anyone Heenan managed. AWA was pretty much the Gagne show, and that hurt it.

    How does it not compare? You have yet to explain how ROH does not compare to ECW. Give an actual reason.

    Let me try and explain what you're doing here.

    Let's suppose you just wrote an excellent fantasy novel. It's original, it's creative, and it's just overall well-written. Then, just before you go to publish it, I come in and take a giant shit on it.

    Why? Because it's not Harry Potter.
     
    #75
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