First Round: San Francisco - British Bulldog vs. Paul Orndorff

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round matchup in the San Francisco Subregion. The ring and arena are universal throughout the first round and the organization is not a factor. There is a 20 minute time limit. Vote using any criteria you like. Most votes in the poll at the end of the time period wins. In the case of a tie we will go off of the number of written votes. In the case of a second tie, both are eliminated.

Location: Cow Palace, San Francisco, California.

British Bulldog

Vs.

Paul Orndorff

Voting is open for 4 days.

 

[Ferbian]

British Bulldog gets this one, simply because I think he's an incredible wrestler, able to put on great matches, one that particularly stands out for me would have to be the match he had in England vs Shawn Michaels for the European Championship, I absolutely loved that match, was one of the first times I really saw Bulldog in a match, and I was hooked, I always liked the British Bulldogs too, and I must admit I wish he would've gotten a world championship reign, and I'm hoping he'll eventually be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame, Cause I really think he deserves a spot in there.

And that's why I think he'll go over Orndorff here, because of his great wrestling ability, and if we're to crown a greatest of all time, I'd much rather see Davey Boy make it to the finals than I would with Paul.

 

[Mr. TM]

Hard to vote for Davey here, I value him more in my history of wrestling, of course, but Paul Orndorff was a pretty important talent. I think I will vote for Davey's ability to bring the crowd and get them more into matches than Paulie. Pretty shitty reasonings, but I like Davey.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

As a young adult who has had the opportunity to recently watch some old school WWF, I couldn't in good conscience not vote for Orndorff. I loved The British Bulldog when I was younger, but, had the WWF went through with an extended program between Hulk Hogan and Paul Orndorff, Orndorff would today be considered one of the greatest heels of all time. It really is a shame that the WWF didn't do more with this feud; the story of Hogan and Orndorff's crumbling friendship was very-well written and Orndorff perfectly played the role of a man being neglected by someone whom he has voluntarily taken a backseat to.

 

[Tastycles]

Paul Orndorff is one of the few wrestlers from back in the day that played a good heel and a good face, without doubt. He is cruelly overlooked, and I remember being thoroughly entertained by a match he had with Hogan, but I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it or if it was from his initial heel run or his later, more lucrative one. His feud with Hogan was huge, and he truly was a huge name.

However, none of his big feuds ever saw him come out on top. Smith, on the other hand, was capable, at least on occasion, to pull out something truly special. I think it would be a fair outcome either way, but I think Bulldog has a better history of getting the job done, so my vote goes to him.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Gotta vote Mr. Wonderful here. He was a legit Main Eventer, including the first Wrestlemania. Davey Boy was a lifetime midcarder. Main Eventer > Midcarder.

 

[mrsavagelife23]

Davey consistently put on great matches and broke off from being a tag specialist into one of teh greatest technical wrestlers ever british bulldog wins

 

[GenMe]

Davey was a great wrestler, when the crowd was dead he used to bring them back to life with his good performance. Davey was good in any division that he was in. He was also a good technical wrestler. So this match I will have to give it to the British Bulldog.

 

[Theo Mays]

Man this one is tough. On one of the Hulk Hogan DVD's Paul Orndorff states that he made Hulk Hogan and Hulk Hogan made him. I think to an extent that is true. Orndorff was an awesome heel and a pretty good face as well. Plus he was a solid wrestler and I think he could have been a solid world champ in the E if they gave him a shot.

Now on the other hand we have British Bulldog. Whether it was long hair Davey Boy or the short hair tough Brit, Bulldog was always entertaining. He has put on some great matches in his career with the likes of HBK, Bret, and Owen. He could squeeze in on any spot on the card. He could work main event on occasions, he could do tag teams, and he was exceptionally good in the midcard. Right now I'm going to stay away from voting, but I could easily be persuaded for either side.

 

[ZeroVX]

Bulldog gets the win here in my opinion. In terms of wrestling ability, Bulldog is much better than people give him credit for. He's put on some unexpected greats with various opponents. Orndorff just seems like your better-than-typical 80's style wrestler. In terms of promos, both are...less than great. And while Orndorff had a great feud with Hogan back in the 80's, he never really did much beyond that. Davey Boy held the Intercontinental, European, and multiple Tag Titles, making him one of the more decorated mid-carders in WWE. I think this puts him over someone who didn't win anything in WWE, much less a title.

 

[Muffin Top Merkley]

The British Bulldog was more versatile wrestler meaning that he could put on a good show as a singles wrestler as well as in a tag-team. He could open, close or be in the middle of the card and would always be able to get the crowd to react.

Nothing against Mr. Wonderful, but Bulldog was more exciting for me to watch.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

As great as Orndorff was and as passionate about the business as he is, Bulldog should run away with this. He had numerous runs with Intercontinental and Tag Titles, and during the mid nineties was a constant contender for the World Title. He challenged both Hart and HBK and was capable of beating both of them. Orndorff came close in a cage match with Hogan, but thats about it. He didn't really defeat anyone of note, not even Mr. T at Mania.

Both have the power and strength game down, but I think Davey Boy just has the edge, maybe of personal preference.

 

[D-Man]

Bulldog is superior here.

I won't discredit Orndorf, though. The man really gave Hulk Hogan a run for his money back in the 80's... for about five minutes.

Davey Boy was an extremely talented wrestler that made most of his early success as a tag team specialist. But once he faced a primed Bret Hart at Wembley Stadium and defeated him for the Intercontinental championship, we all realized Smith's true potential. He's nobody to take lightly and can easily take down many guys in this tournament... Orndorf being one of them.

Vote Bulldog.

 

[Suneeboy]

I have to go Mr. Wonderful here. The Bulldog is a tag team wrestler, role player, and famous mid-carder. Paul Orndorff was all of those, but Mr. Wonderful for a decent portion of his career was a also a main eventer. He challenged for the title, and headlined the 1st Wrestlemania in Madison Square Garden.

Orndorff is a WWE Hall of Famer (inducted in 2005), had great feuds with Hulk Hogan, The 4 Horsemen, Mick Foley, and others. Orndorff was a freak of nature during his days, and the Mr. Wonderful moniker was definitely fitting as the guy was jacked. He was a draw, and was one of the major pioneers of the arrogant well built heel gimmick. Guys like Rick Rude, Scott Steiner, and Lex Luger will attribute Paul Orndorff as one of their major influences I'm sure.

The Bulldog had a good stint in the WWE, and is better known due to the era that he performed in, but he did not have the impact and lay as much groundwork as Orndorff did. The Bulldog is more popular now more than ever because 1) he is dead, and 2) Bret Hart just came back and the WWE has been putting the Bulldog over more than they ever have, so his name is more fresh in people's memory. I think that is why he is getting votes, but he should not!!! Not over Mr. Wonderful Paul Orndorff. He had epic main event level feuds, and is a WWE Hall of Famer. TV Champion, Tag Champion, and Regional World Champion in the South (which meant A LOT in the 70s).

You want to talk about people like Sheamus, and Swagger being hot shotted to the main event? Ornorff was a main eventer almost immediately after coming into the WWE, and feuding with the great Hulk Hogan who had just defeated the Iron Sheik, who ended Bob Backlunds 2 year title reign!!! Then went on to headline Wrestlemania, after feuding with another fellow hall of famer....Tony Atlas! Please do not do the criminal act of having the Bulldog knock off the legend Paul Orndorff. The Bulldog paid his dues, but he doesn't have the impact on the business that Mr. Wonderful has. The Bulldog is more relevant right now in conversation because of Hart's recent return, but Orndorff is already a Hall of Famer, and is a legend. Vote Orndorff here. I did.

 

[D-Man]

Ornorff was a main eventer almost immediately after coming into the WWE, and feuding with the great Hulk Hogan who had just defeated the Iron Sheik, who ended Bob Backlunds 2 year title reign!!! Then went on to headline Wrestlemania, after feuding with another fellow hall of famer....Tony Atlas!

You're going to completely discredit the accomplishments of the British Bulldog because Paul Orndorf FEUDED with Hulk Hogan back in the 80's and was part of a glorified six-man tag match at the first Wrestlemania? He never even WON an important match! Shit, even Don Muraco FEUDED with Hogan. Does that make him better than the Bulldog? Highly doubtful.

Bulldog vs. Bret Hart at Wembley Stadium is all you need to watch in order to see that Orndorf could NEVER defeat the Bulldog in a kayfabe matchup.

Sorry Suneeboy, but Orndorf doesn't have the wins to prove that he's kind of a force against Davey Boy Smith. He only has notoriety by association.

 

[Suneeboy]

Bulldog vs. Bret Hart at Wembley Stadium is all you need to watch in order to see that Orndorf could NEVER defeat the Bulldog in a kayfabe matchup.

Sorry Suneeboy, but Orndorf doesn't have the wins to prove that he's kind of a force against Davey Boy Smith. He only has notoriety by association.

But neither does the Bulldog. His win over Hart was cool, but what else really? He was a glorified enhancement talent, who's best matches were with the people he trained with, the Harts. Yeah, he had a good match with Michaels, but he lost the EU Championship, in the UK.

He had a good run as a tag wrestler, and was a solid mid-carder as a singles wrestler and as a part of the Hart Foundation. Became very lazy towards the end of his career, so much so that he stopped "running" for his Running Powerslam. He kind of just took two steps and dropped the guy. His final stint in the WWE saw him barely able to get over, and eventually just another guy on the card feuding for the Hardcore Title.

Why does the Bulldog get the nod over Ornorff? Because of his match with Bret at Summerslam? I mean that match was in the UK, so the crowd was JACKED for that match, so that adds energy to it for sure, but does that give him the nod? Because of the one tag title run with the Dynamite Kid? Because he is a member of the Hart family? I think his name is getting him a lot more votes than his work. His promo skills were average at best. He really only had a few good years. The rest of his years he was below mid card or an enhancement talent.

It's going to take a lot more than a handful (literally) of good mid card matches to have me vote this guy over Orndorff, who was one of my favorite wrestlers, and an icon growing up.

 

[joejoe]

This one isn't even a contest in my opinion. Bulldog has more power, a bigger move set to choose from and had some big matches under his belt. True Orndorff does too but The Bulldog has preformed better when the lights are on brighter.

Look to his match with Bret Hart and his matches against HBK for proof of that.

Bulldog wins with his powerslam here in a quick 7 minute match.

 

[D-Man]

It's going to take a lot more than a handful (literally) of good mid card matches to have me vote this guy over Orndorff, who was one of my favorite wrestlers, and an icon growing up.

Don't get me wrong... I loves me some Mr. Wondeful. But in what world could he beat Smith?

I'd rather take a SUCCESSFUL midcarder and tag team specialist over a jobber to the main event card any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

(Only counting WWE and WCW)

Paul Orndorf
* NWA World Tag Team Championship (Mid-Atlantic version) (1 time) - with Jimmy Snuka
* WCW World Tag Team Championship (2 times) - with Paul Roma
* WCW World Television Championship (1 time)

Davey Boy Smith
* WWF European Championship (2 times)
* WWF Hardcore Championship (2 times)
* WWF Intercontinental Championship (1 time)
* WWF World Tag Team Championship (2 times) – with The Dynamite Kid (1) and Owen Hart (1)

This proves Smith had more championships.

Orndorf did nothing major in the WWE except lose to Hogan and friends, and then he took on the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality and teamed up with Hogan. But most of their team-up matches ended with Hogan doing most of the work. Later on in his career when he joined WCW, he couldn't win matches without cheating. The guy couldn't catch a clean win. Sorry, but Mr. Wonderful wasn't so wonderful during that time.

But while Orndorf was losing to Hogan and cleaning up his scraps, the Bulldog was defeating guys like Curt Henning, Bret Hart, and holds a WIN over the WWF champion Diesel at In Your House 4. Orndorf never held a win over the WWF champion...

He also entered the 1995 Royal Rumble as entrant #2 and was the last man to be eliminated by Shawn Michaels. In 1996 he was in the final four of the rumble, as well.

When has Orndorf done anything close to these kinds of accomplishments?

 

[DirtyJosé]

Orndorff had great potential, but never fully realized it. Bulldog is an icon, one of the most recognizable names from his era. Bulldog put on more matches of higher quality in the stretch of his career.

Bulldog for the win here.

 

[Suneeboy]

Don't get me wrong... I loves me some Mr. Wondeful. But in what world could he beat Smith?

I'd rather take a SUCCESSFUL midcarder and tag team specialist over a jobber to the main event card any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

(Only counting WWE and WCW)

Paul Orndorf
* NWA World Tag Team Championship (Mid-Atlantic version) (1 time) - with Jimmy Snuka
* WCW World Tag Team Championship (2 times) - with Paul Roma
* WCW World Television Championship (1 time)

Davey Boy Smith
* WWF European Championship (2 times)
* WWF Hardcore Championship (2 times)
* WWF Intercontinental Championship (1 time)
* WWF World Tag Team Championship (2 times) – with The Dynamite Kid (1) and Owen Hart (1)

This proves Smith had more championships.

Orndorf did nothing major in the WWE except lose to Hogan and friends, and then he took on the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality and teamed up with Hogan. But most of their team-up matches ended with Hogan doing most of the work. Later on in his career when he joined WCW, he couldn't win matches without cheating. The guy couldn't catch a clean win. Sorry, but Mr. Wonderful wasn't so wonderful during that time.

But while Orndorf was losing to Hogan and cleaning up his scraps, the Bulldog was defeating guys like Curt Henning, Bret Hart, and holds a WIN over the WWF champion Diesel at In Your House 4. Orndorf never held a win over the WWF champion...

He also entered the 1995 Royal Rumble as entrant #2 and was the last man to be eliminated by Shawn Michaels. In 1996 he was in the final four of the rumble, as well.

When has Orndorf done anything close to these kinds of accomplishments?

I love me some British Bulldog also, but he's no Mr. Wonderful.

Why would you only include WWE and WCW, when Ordorff was working The Southern Promotions and the NWA before the WWE and WCW had a choke hold on wrestling? Are those not important to wrestling history in this case? If we are going to say that, then the Japanese wrestlers and guys like Harley Race and Dusty Rhodes have no chance in this tournament. Ordorff started in the 70s before the WWE was the number one company in the world. He has wins over Dusty Rhodes, Mick Foley, Arn Anderson, and defeated Jerry Lawler for his first title who was the KING of the south.

The Bulldog had a decent run, but Ornorff had a better career. He is a Hall of Famer (rightfully so), World Champion, and a legend. I'm looking at Wikipedia and it says him and Hogan headlined a show with a 76,000 attendance. Orndorff definitely had a lot to do with that, and it wasn't only Hogan. The Bulldog wasn't a draw in his prime like Ornorff was in his prime.

 

[D-Man]

Why would you only include WWE and WCW, when Ordorff was working The Southern Promotions and the NWA before the WWE and WCW had a choke hold on wrestling?

I only left them out for the sake of the teenagers that view and post on this site. None of them give two shits about promotions prior to WCW and WWE, and you know it. But, if I were to include those promotions, Davey Boy's list would grow immensely, as well. But it would also be quite unfair to him because it's not really his fault that he didn't wrestle under the NWA umbrella. He was a Stampede wrestler that won almost every title they had to offer. But comparing Stampede to the NWA promotions is like apples and oranges, so I chose to leave that out.

Throwing factors like that into this equation makes it an unfair judgment to BOTH parties, not just Davey Boy or Mr. Wonderful.

The Bulldog had a decent run, but Ornorff had a better career. He is a Hall of Famer (rightfully so), World Champion, and a legend. I'm looking at Wikipedia and it says him and Hogan headlined a show with a 76,000 attendance. Orndorff definitely had a lot to do with that, and it wasn't only Hogan. The Bulldog wasn't a draw in his prime like Ornorff was in his prime.

I read about that, too. But that doesn't really compare to to 80,355 people drawn into the main event of Summerslam in 1992. Like you stated about Hogan, I'm sure that Bret Hart had a little bit to do with that kind of draw factor, but considering that Smith was from England and this main event was IN England, I think it's safe to assume that the Bulldog was the main draw here.

Looks like Davey Boy Smith outdrew Paul Orndorf and Hulk Hogan in one fell swoop. I guess that basically urinates over your last sentence in the above paragraph.

 

[Suneeboy]

I only left them out for the sake of the teenagers that view and post on this site. None of them give two shits about promotions prior to WCW and WWE, and you know it. But, if I were to include those promotions, Davey Boy's list would grow immensely, as well. But it would also be quite unfair to him because it's not really his fault that he didn't wrestle under the NWA umbrella. He was a Stampede wrestler that won almost every title they had to offer. But comparing Stampede to the NWA promotions is like apples and oranges, so I chose to leave that out.

Throwing factors like that into this equation makes it an unfair judgment to BOTH parties, not just Davey Boy or Mr. Wonderful.

Yeah, but the tournament isn't about who's the best wrestler out of WCW and the WWE because many teenagers don't know about the NWA or 80s wrestling. The Tournament is about the best of all time. If they don't know, then this tournament is a perfect opportunity for people to start doing some research.

I read about that, too. But that doesn't really compare to to 80,355 people drawn into the main event of Summerslam in 1992. Like you stated about Hogan, I'm sure that Bret Hart had a little bit to do with that kind of draw factor, but considering that Smith was from England and this main event was IN England, I think it's safe to assume that the Bulldog was the main draw here.

Looks like Davey Boy Smith outdrew Paul Orndorf and Hulk Hogan in one fell swoop. I guess that basically urinates over your last sentence in the above paragraph.

That's a mighty fine right hand you got there D-Man, but you'll have to swing a little bit harder than that. Of course the Brit is going to draw in Britain for a major WWF PPV. This is Summerslam we're talking here. Ornorff/Hogan in a Steel Cage for the Title was for Saturday Night's Main Event.

 

[deem]

This is close. I want to vote Davey, but I decided to read the thread to get some other opinions first. Now I still want to vote Davey.

I cannot remember a big Orndorff win. I like him, his work as a heel was very strong imo, but his career was relatively short and littered with unfulfilled potential. Davey is talked about with a handful of others when discussing the best to never win a world title - there is a reason for that. He isn't JUST a midcarder, he was a great midcarder, proving himself as good enough to step up yet that push never came. That isn't a criticism of him - Steamboat and Roberts didn't get to the main event in WWE either, it's just the orientation of the business around a few top stars filling up the main event at the time.

I vote Davey, but it's close. I'd take dominating the midcard and deserving more rather than being a bitpart in the main event though.

 

[8thwotwATG]

Tough one to call. Both guys actually have a similar game insofar as inring styles are concerned, but Orndorff never seemed able to put it all together to win the big one. Davey Boy gets the nod here in a sqeaker. It's a shame that his substance problems ended his life and career so prematurely.