First Round: San Francisco - Bryan Danielson vs. Diamond Dallas Page

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round matchup in the San Francisco Subregion. The ring and arena are universal throughout the first round and the organization is not a factor. There is a 20 minute time limit. Vote using any criteria you like. Most votes in the poll at the end of the time period wins. In the case of a tie we will go off of the number of written votes. In the case of a second tie, both are eliminated.

Location: Cow Palace, San Francisco, California.

Bryan Danielson

Vs.

Diamond Dallas PAge

Voting is open for 4 days.

 

[pun2003hh]

Page's success mainly lies in his every man persona. The people took to him because he was somebody that shouldn't have made it. He was a plain guy like the rest of them, and the fans elevated him to main event status. That said, I just don't think DDP could get it done in the ring against a Danielson. DDP did reach the top of the national stage, but I don't see DDP lasting more then ten minutes against the explosive moveset of the American Dragon.

Give this one to Danielson.

 

[Sharp_Shooter]

Pun caught the essence of DDP in few words. But what I think he's missing is the drive & fight DDP had. Do you remember how every week it seemed like the nWo had to bring the whole army in to take him down. Everyone would hit their finishing move on him 3 times before they started playing their theme music. And once they hit the music, they knew they needed a few more Hogan leg drops, Giant chokeslams, and spray paint to break his spirit. My point is DDP don't die! Bryan Danielson, Daniel Bryan, whoever, would have to come in the ring with the mindset "I have to kill this man" because those submissions wouldn't have worked on Page. But all Page needed was the mindset "Once I hit the cutter, its over!"

DDP all day.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

DDP WAS and IS overratted. DDP was a good in ring competitor who deserved a world title reign but Danielson is a great in ring competitor. Danielson knows how wrestlers like DDP work and he can take him out. Bryan has a great moveset and DDP works a very repetitive style. Page may be good but Danielson is great and exciting and brings something different to the table almost every time.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Seriously? Brian Danielson is beating DDfreakingP?


I guess this is a smarky board where guys like Taz in his prime might be able to get more votes than late 80s Hulk Hogan, but this is just a little ridiculous.


DDP was one of the hottest wrestlers of the late 90s, when wrestling was at its peak. He almost beat freaking Goldberg during his most dominant run. GOLDBERG. He was literally the first guy not to get completely buried by Goldie in almost a year's time. He put on one of the best matches of all-time with Sting on a Monday Nitro in April of 99. He's a multi-time WCW Champion, which at one point was the biggest title in the land.

Danielson has torn it up in the indy circuit, and is now just making it to the big-time. Is Danielson more talented than DDP? Maybe. But this is like saying that some guy who was the MVP of the International League is more valuable than somebody like Wade Boggs.

Vote DDP.

 

[BooCocky]

This is a joke. Danielson is complete garbage and DDP was a champion in a rather large promotion. DDP got better as he got older. He's fought the best and he's beat the best. Who the hell has Danielson ever beat? No one on the level of some of the people Page has beaten. Page wins and he wins rather quickly...

 

[pun2003hh]

Pun caught the essence of DDP in few words. But what I think he's missing is the drive & fight DDP had. Do you remember how every week it seemed like the nWo had to bring the whole army in to take him down. Everyone would hit their finishing move on him 3 times before they started playing their theme music. And once they hit the music, they knew they needed a few more Hogan leg drops, Giant chokeslams, and spray paint to break his spirit. My point is DDP don't die! Bryan Danielson, Daniel Bryan, whoever, would have to come in the ring with the mindset "I have to kill this man" because those submissions wouldn't have worked on Page. But all Page needed was the mindset "Once I hit the cutter, its over!"

DDP all day.

The thing is, that was usually Danielson's mindset in ROH. I will put it this way. DDP not tapping? Fine, I will give you that. But DDP surviving the arm trap downward elbows of Danielson? I have a hard time not seeing Page in a pool of his own blood.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

The thing is, that was usually Danielson's mindset in ROH. I will put it this way. DDP not tapping? Fine, I will give you that. But DDP surviving the arm trap downward elbows of Danielson? I have a hard time not seeing Page in a pool of his own blood.

That right there. Call me prejudiced, call me what you will. But Danielson is going to have to do something for a promotion that airs on something bigger than HDnet to beat a guy who was putting butts in seats for a prime-time wrestling telecast that aired on arguably cable's most solid channel.

Anything that Danielson has done is less significant because it's been in ROH.

 

[BooCocky]

And what do moves have to do with this? I don't give two fucks that Danielson knows thirty thousand variations of an arm bar takedown. I don't give a shit if he wrestled circles around minor league wrestlers. DDP was a huge star He wrestled in some pretty big matches during his career. He had asses in the seat in some of the biggest arenas in the world. Danielson wrestled infront of 20 people in a gymnasium. I'm sorry DDP is too good to lose to an amateur like Danielson.

 

[Sharp_Shooter]

The thing is, that was usually Danielson's mindset in ROH. I will put it this way. DDP not tapping? Fine, I will give you that. But DDP surviving the arm trap downward elbows of Danielson? I have a hard time not seeing Page in a pool of his own blood.

DDP aint scared of blood baby! I know one thing, when he locks those thumbs & index fingers together, you gonna need Red Sea blood to flow to stop Page from hitting that Cutter! Name me one wrestler who pulled out his finisher from so many different variations.

I can't speak on Danielson's ROH period, but I am impressed with the few matches he's had on NXT. But here's something you Daniel's fans can say: there's nothing more impressive than getting pinned by 62 year old William Regal!

 

[Tenta]

Wow. You've finally done it. You've actually finally done it. This group of smarky fans, who by the way, only two have justified their votes by actually posting in here, have actually made me agree with Becker on something.

Read; Becker and I agree. I'm as stunned as he may be right now. And what? I'm, on the same boat as Ricky, too? My God, you see what you're doing here? You're placing me against people I thought I'd never agree with on these forums. You see, this should be an obvious DDP slam dunk, right now. The fact is, Danielson hasn't done enough yet for me to consider putting him over DDP. The man has eight years in the business, and has been meaningful to the business for all of three of them. His matches in ROH, but at the big leagues, in the WWE, Danielson hasn't done a damn thing. At all. He's had seven matches, and has lost each and every one of them. DDP, meanwhile, is a three time WCW Champion, and is amongst the most over names in WCW during it's peak, from 1997-1998. He, along with Luger and The Giant, were the only faces left for WCW, and DDP carried the slack, working fantastic matches with Randy Savage, with Savage eventually putting him over. Bryan Danielson has worked with decent workers, but has yet to go over an elite, established name in the business.

What's that, you say? Danielson is a technician? Well, let's see just how well being a technician worked for the following names....

[YOUTUBE]6vR79xner4E[/YOUTUBE]​

But, Tenta, that wasn't Chris Jericho in his prime. *nasally breathing*

Yes, that wasn't Jericho in his prime, but that's actually a Chris Jericho that, at that time, accomplished more than Bryan Danielson currently has in wrestling. Or, if that doesn't do anything for you, how about this.

[YOUTUBE]myzIjMKs_3Y[/YOUTUBE]​

Oh, how I love it. I want to see the first smark come and say that Bryan Danielson is a better wrestler, or more accomplished, than Chris Benoit at this point. Simply put, no. This was a man that won the Super J Cup not but three years ago. Something far better than anything Bryan fucking Danielson has ever done. And what happens? DDP beats him clean, right in the middle of the ring. But since Bryan Danielson's a technician, he's going to go over, right?

Look, for those of you that say DDP can't wrestle a technical match, I'm going to call you out for never having watched a WCW match. As a matter of fact, I'm well aware that one of you never has, though I won't give out the guys name. DDP has wrestled classics with these "great wresters" you speak of, and DDP gets the win more often than not.

Now, I'm going to take a good look at the best response I have so far. Of course, that isn't saying much.

DDP WAS and IS overratted.

And how exactly? How is a man that's won a world title overrated?

You know who's overrated? A man who hasn't won a major world heavyweight championship yet. A man who has yet to win a match while a part of the "big companies" we now have. A man who's claim to fame is working good matches. Not winning world titles, and not being a big draw, but matches. He is Chris Benoit, without the world titles. And as we see, Chris Benoit without the world titles gets beat by DDP.

Bryan Danielson, in fact, is vastly overrated. He still can't cut a promo to save his life, and for that matter, hasn't even done half of what Diamond Dallas Page has done for the business.

Danielson knows how wrestlers like DDP work and he can take him out. Bryan has a great moveset and DDP works a very repetitive style.

I'll just ignore the fact that, typically, DDP does beat the good wrestlers. I believe that may evidence above proves otherwise.

DDP as repetitive? One of his claims to fame is that he can hit the Diamond Cutter from any fucking position. He can work against big men (See; working with, and beating The Giant), and can work against smaller men, such as Benoit and Jericho. I'm not sure where you're getting this repetitive stuff from. Oh, wait, yes; yes I do. You're getting this repetitive stuff straight from your ass

Page may be good but Danielson is great and exciting and brings something different to the table almost every time.

And DDP isn't exciting? He routinely got the second biggest pop in the night when WCW was hot. So many people slag Page because he was friends with Eric. Fact is, DDP earned where he got to. He paid his dues in the business, and waited years in mid card purgatory before Eric gradually put DDP at the top of the ranks, where he belonged. Danielson is a good technician, but that's it. He has done nothing compared to DDP, and still has a long way to go to catch up to DDP's legacy.

Don't be a blind smark; the facts are right in front of you. Don't vote for Danielson because, apparently, Page can't beat good wrestlers. I've proven without a shadow of a doubt that, more often than not, Page does go over the good wrestlers. Page is a bonafide winner, and a star to the business. Danielson, on the other hand, still has plenty of work to do. His time will come, but DDP has done better, and more work, over a longer period, and is more important a wrestler, than Danielson is now.

This one goes to DDP.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

DDMe all the way here, Danielson is just an IWC darling where as DDP was the WCW Champ when it still meant something. Bryan can put on a great match but a great match doesn't get you a win against DDP. Diamond Cutter ends it.

 

[Mr. TM]

Not sure how this is close. DDP drew 5.0 crowds in WCW, while Danielson is drawing hardly a 1.0 on NXT. When DDP was champ, I think the fans had their funnest time, they loved to get behind the guy. Goldberg, Sting, and many others tried to take the NWO down and get WCW back on top, but it was DDP who kept millions, not thousands of fans excited with him, as the grown man, who was well past what seemed to be his time, was able to make it in a major promotion.

 

[shattered dreams]

DDP aint scared of blood baby! I know one thing, when he locks those thumbs & index fingers together, you gonna need Red Sea blood to flow to stop Page from hitting that Cutter! Name me one wrestler who pulled out his finisher from so many different variations.

I can't speak on Danielson's ROH period, but I am impressed with the few matches he's had on NXT. But here's something you Daniel's fans can say: there's nothing more impressive than getting pinned by 62 year old William Regal!

Just like there is nothing more impressive than losing the WCW Championship to David Arquette!

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

DDP was exciting yes, yes he was good and yes he won a world title but so did david Arquette in WCW. He deserved the world title but he's still ovveratted. This guy was a good seller, a good worker but that was it just GOOD. He was NEVER grerat. Danielson isn't great YET but he's on that road. Just because someone hasn't won a world championship and people give them credit doesn't mean they're overratted. Arn anderson never won the world title and he's underatted as hell. Danielson IS overatted but he's still better. The evidence against DDP being repetitive is? Hitting the Diamond Cutter out of nowhere is something but it's repetitive. Repitition and predictability are two different things. I never said DDP couldn't beat good wrestlers, your putting words in my mouth there but the fact is I'm sure DDP could beat Danielson but Danielson in turn could beat DDP. It was tough to call but Danielson won in my eyes.

 

[ScreaminNormanSmiley]

Danielson is a great technician but ddp was insanley over when wcw was still competing in the rating wars i believe during part of the time they were winning. and theres all this talk of arquettes title win but it was because he pinned eric fucking bischoff not ddp. this was to go to ddp

 

[pun2003hh]

Really surprised by who is backing DDP here. Look at it this way. Watch some of Danielson's work in ROH. Watch his matches against McGuiness, Samoa Joe and Austin Aries. These are great matches and Danielson has a brutal arsenal of moves. Then look at DDP. A man who had a great character and aura behind him but bottom line was limited in the ring. He had great matches with guys that could have great matches.

It has nothing to do with being "Smarky". I am usually the first one to jump on and argue with someone about an IWC darling, but Page's success was tied to his persona and connection with the crowd. Danielson let his in ring work get him over.

Also, I'd like to point out something that Tenta mentioned, the fact that only two people have spoken up for Danielson. This seems to be pretty close right now, so please, if you are going to vote for Danielson, speak up and explain why.

Another note, please do not use Danielson's work in NXT as a basis for your decision. Do research and take a look at this man's entire career.

 

[Mr. TM]

Really surprised by who is backing DDP here. Look at it this way. Watch some of Danielson's work in ROH. Watch his matches against McGuiness, Samoa Joe and Austin Aries. These are great matches and Danielson has a brutal arsenal of moves. Then look at DDP. A man who had a great character and aura behind him but bottom line was limited in the ring. He had great matches with guys that could have great matches.

It has nothing to do with being "Smarky". I am usually the first one to jump on and argue with someone about an IWC darling, but Page's success was tied to his persona and connection with the crowd. Danielson let his in ring work get him over.

Also, I'd like to point out something that Tenta mentioned, the fact that only two people have spoken up for Danielson. This seems to be pretty close right now, so please, if you are going to vote for Danielson, speak up and explain why.

Another note, please do not use Danielson's work in NXT as a basis for your decision. Do research and take a look at this man's entire career.

Goldberg had two people make him look good in the ring, one the shitty basterd kicked in the head accidentally so bad it caused him to leave the ring for 10 years. The other was Diamond Dallas Page. When those two fought at HH 98, it was one of the best main event matches WCW had ever had, so saying DDP had good matches with good wrestlers is alright, but you cant say he didn't have good matches with shit wrestlers like 98 Goldberg was.

 

[pun2003hh]

Goldberg had two people make him look good in the ring, one the shitty basterd kicked in the head accidentally so bad it caused him to leave the ring for 10 years. The other was Diamond Dallas Page. When those two fought at HH 98, it was one of the best main event matches WCW had ever had, so saying DDP had good matches with good wrestlers is alright, but you cant say he didn't have good matches with shit wrestlers like 98 Goldberg was.

I actually just watched that match recently, and I can respect your opinion because it was a good match. It had great spots, including the Jackhammer counter into the Diamond Cutter. All I am saying is when watching DDPs offense and then watching Danielson's offense, looking at it objectively and realistically thinking which man would be able to beat the other, I would think Danielson has the advantage. I would love the post a Youtube link to one of Danielson's matches, but I am not able to from work right now.

 

[Tenta]

DDP was exciting yes, yes he was good and yes he won a world title but so did david Arquette in WCW.

I had a feeling this will be brought up.

Vince McMahon won the WWE Championship. Does that make it less credible when Hulk Hogan wins the title and holds on to it for five years?

Your logic is very flawed. DDP was at his best at a time before he was even champion, and got rewarded for his work by getting the world title. Besides that, DDP was in the main event scene one year before Russo put the belt on Arquette. In a time when the belt did actually mean something. Throwing out Arquette is merely a pathetic attempt to weaken DDP's credibility, and you know it.

He deserved the world title but he's still ovveratted.

Wow.... Way to completely contradict yourself. Let's look at the logic you follow.

First, you declare that DDP deserved the World Title. Thus, you declare that you rate him as a World Champion (Something that, oh, by the way, Bryan Danielson wasn't, in a big promotion). Thus, you have succesfully rated him. You then say he's "ovveratted", whatever that means. Well, let's look up it's next possible word that you could have meant, in "Overrated"

Overrate:To overestimate the merits of; rate too highly.

Thus, you have stated that you think DDP was not worth the merit of being named World Champion. You have succesfully contradicted yourself in saying, "He deserved to be champion, but he didn't deserve to be champion."

Way to Go!!!!!

This guy was a good seller, a good worker but that was it just GOOD. He was NEVER grerat.

Well, yes, actually he was. Otherwise he wouldn't be in this fucking tournament. But aside from that, many other people thought he was great. Such as; the men that agreed he was championship material. The men who decided it would be good to put him over. Wrestlers who have constantly put him over in shoots.

But no, he doesn't have your seal of approval. Guess he can't be great.

Danielson isn't great YET but he's on that road.

So, is this your admitting that DDP and Danielson are pretty much equal, in both being "good"? Well then, why not take the man that's done more for the business, and actually won world titles?

Just because someone hasn't won a world championship and people give them credit doesn't mean they're overratted.

Actually, yes, yes it does. Because that means we have set our expectations of the man higher than they should be. If I were to say Shelton Benjamin should be champion, I'd be overrating him, because he has done nothing to prove he's championship material yet. Still, I merit him as a champion.

It's actually what you're doing to Bryan Danielson now, you see?

Arn anderson never won the world title and he's underatted as hell.

No, he's aptly rated as a man who was a good wrestler, but not championship material. he is not overrated. Bryan Danielson, meanwhile, is overrated.

Danielson IS overatted but he's still better.

I'm making myself dizzy trying to follow your circular reasoning. So you admit Danielson is overrated? Is he more overrated than DDP? And how exactly is he better? By championship wins, significant matches, ability to draw, ability to cut a promo to save his life? Yes, I see exactly what you mean by "better"

The evidence against DDP being repetitive is? Hitting the Diamond Cutter out of nowhere is something but it's repetitive. Repitition and predictability are two different things.

This.... I'm not even going to bother pulling out good old Webster here. Oh Hell.... Yes I will!

Repetitive:characterized by or given to unnecessary repetition;

Predictability: These verbs mean to tell about something in advance of its occurrence by means of special knowledge or inference from repetition

Umm.....

I never said DDP couldn't beat good wrestlers, your putting words in my mouth there

Actually, I'm really not. All I said was that DDP has beaten better wrestlers. Your whole argument, if we can even call it that, is that Danielson is a better wrestler. And as we've seen, DDP beats wrestlers that are both better than him and Bryan Danielson.

but the fact is I'm sure DDP could beat Danielson but Danielson in turn could beat DDP.

So in short, Danielson can lose to the multiple time world champion?

I guess you're right. After all, he has plenty of experience with doing that on the WWE's third tier show

It was tough to call but Danielson won in my eyes.

And clearly you're wrong

 

[DirtyJosé]

DDP's first appearance wrestling was in 1979. DDP's WCW TV Title victory in fall 1994 was not only his first title victory, but his first relevant performance as a wrestler. The gap between the two points? 15 years. 15 years spent jobbing, training, retired early due to knee injury, managing, re-trained, and jobbing some more before reaching a level where there was actually something to push. DDP got a lucky break, and boy did he run with it. Credit is due to him for being able to pick up his career in wrestling again and make something of it, but a lot of the credit is also due to his previous connections to the industry, and not out a a fan base carved out of years of dedicated performances.

In my opinion, Danielson has rightly earned the fan base he has. As much as I love the old school, I have to give this one to Danielson; who builds this kind of rep on their own anymore? That's pretty old school in and of itself.

 

[mrsavagelife23]

the best wrestler in the world wins here his moveset and endurance is what gets him over here hes had several matches go over 60 minutes and hes beaten the best all over the globe danielson is the man here

 

[Hulkamaniac]

This is ridiculous. Congrats to Danielson on having matches that hundreds of fans love in front of high school gymnasiums full of pimply faced ROHbots, but DDP was performing in front of millions of different types of fans, and was OVER as hell. Danielson isn't over NOW. Seriously, someone said that DDP was good but not great, and Danielson "isn't great yet, but is on the road to great." Even if I accept that Danielson is "on the road to being great" (which I don't), this poll is taking place, ya know, NOW, not 5-10 years from now. Right now, DDP's best years are better then Danielson's.

DDP hits the cutter in a squash, just like every Danielson match thusfar in the big show.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

DDP was exciting yes, yes he was good and yes he won a world title but so did david Arquette in WCW. He deserved the world title but he's still ovveratted. This guy was a good seller, a good worker but that was it just GOOD. He was NEVER grerat. Danielson isn't great YET but he's on that road. Just because someone hasn't won a world championship and people give them credit doesn't mean they're overratted. Arn anderson never won the world title and he's underatted as hell. Danielson IS overatted but he's still better. The evidence against DDP being repetitive is? Hitting the Diamond Cutter out of nowhere is something but it's repetitive. Repitition and predictability are two different things. I never said DDP couldn't beat good wrestlers, your putting words in my mouth there but the fact is I'm sure DDP could beat Danielson but Danielson in turn could beat DDP. It was tough to call but Danielson won in my eyes.

So you're saying that Danielson is on the road to becoming great? If that's the case, then he better become Ric Flair in the next four days if he is going to beat Page. DDP was one of the hottest things WCW had going and beat mostly all of the top guys in WCW at the time. Danielson is good but he is not good enough to beat DDP right now.

 

[pun2003hh]

I love that people are tearing down ROH as a small promotion with no effect, but obviously the people that put this tournament together thought highly enough of the promotion to allow it's world title as a qualification to be entered into said tournament.

ECW was a tiny promotion as well, and they put together shows infront of 100s of fans. Yet they have their stars peppered all over this tournament. Obviously the size of the promotion doesn't matter. The quality of the in ring work does. And I have seen alot of people give great arguments for DDP, defending his work. But the argument's against Danielson have been shit. I haven't seen anyone comment on his actual in ring work other then the lame "small promotion" "smarky fans" and "12 different armbar variation" crutches that people use to tear down ROH guys.