CM Punk Ain't That Good

[ZUMBOdriver]

Jeff Hardy had 3 top 10 selling items on on WWEShop.com. HAHAHAHAHA

SO that obviously makes Jeff Hardly better than Punk and a HOFer.

You're argument is not very convincing my friend. I understand that wrestlers who sell stuff to kids get to be champs these days but I didn't realize that selling merch determined whether a wrestler was good or not.

 

[Suneeboy]

CM Punk is easily the most exciting member of the WWE roster right now. That's not even arguable at this point considering the astoundingly low quality of Raw. What is it that you don't think he excels in?

If its not arguable, why did I just bring up the argument and you countering my points?

Is it his mic skills, which are so good it's downright scary? Punk has been cutting the best promos in the WWE in years with his recent heel turn and feud with Jeff Hardy, people will be talking about these promos a decade from now in the same way they talk about Foley's classic "Anti-Hardcore" promos. That's how good he is.

Serious? These are historic promos? There is nothing in recent memory that compares? JBL/HBK feud earlier in the year had better promos than Punk/Hardy, and Jericho/HBK of last year along with HHH/Orton for 'Mania. The straight edge stuff is gold, but its not the best I've heard, and its not the best in years. There has been much better stuff. Not to take away from Punk's promos, but he's getting an A+ from people where he should only be getting a B. Its not that fun to listen too.

Is it his in ring skills, which are among the very best in the WWE as well? Punk can wrestle literally any style of match, be it hardcore spotfest, technical duel, or any other variation of wrestling.

Hardcore spotfest? You mean like a TLC or MITB match where his opponent(s) do(es) all the spots? Punk doesn't carry matches, at least not yet. He needs someone to carry him and make him look credible in the ring. He doesn't steal the show, his opponent does.

As for him not "deserving" to be in the main event and not being credible, that's absolutely absurd. Do you even watch Smackdown? Do you hear the reaction that Punk is getting every week? He's easily the most hated man on the entire WWE roster and the best heel in the entire wrestling business today. It's been a long time since I've seen the fans hate a wrestler so viscerally.

I watch SD! every week, its my favorite WWE Show, that's why I am saying "Punk ain't that good." Yeah he gets a decent reaction I don't debate that. He doesn't get more heat than Jericho or Orton. Also his Hardy prank was great, but that's his shining moment. He needs more than that before I load up the bandwagon and jump on. Impersonations aren't anything new so I don't see what the big stink is about it. It was a good promo, and got great heat...that I don't deny. But I've seen better.

Feel free to respond to anything I've said here. Because you're incredibly wrong here sunee.

I responded and I'm right. I like to be on the other side of the fence here as I've seen way too much Punk love on the boards, and I honestly don't think the guy is all that. He's good...but when people start talking that top heel, and greatest promos in years stuff I have to jump in and crash the party.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

If its not arguable, why did I just bring up the argument and you countering my points?



Serious? These are historic promos? There is nothing in recent memory that compares? JBL/HBK feud earlier in the year had better promos than Punk/Hardy, and Jericho/HBK of last year along with HHH/Orton for 'Mania. The straight edge stuff is gold, but its not the best I've heard, and its not the best in years. There has been much better stuff. Not to take away from Punk's promos, but he's getting an A+ from people where he should only be getting a B. Its not that fun to listen too.


Hardcore spotfest? You mean like a TLC or MITB match where his opponent(s) do(es) all the spots? Punk doesn't carry matches, at least not yet. He needs someone to carry him and make him look credible in the ring. He doesn't steal the show, his opponent does.



I watch SD! every week, its my favorite WWE Show, that's why I am saying "Punk ain't that good." Yeah he gets a decent reaction I don't debate that. He doesn't get more heat than Jericho or Orton. Also his Hardy prank was great, but that's his shining moment. He needs more than that before I load up the bandwagon and jump on. Impersonations aren't anything new so I don't see what the big stink is about it. It was a good promo, and got great heat...that I don't deny. But I've seen better.


I responded and I'm right. I like to be on the other side of the fence here as I've seen way too much Punk love on the boards, and I honestly don't think the guy is all that. He's good...but when people start talking that top heel, and greatest promos in years stuff I have to jump in and crash the party.

Punk gets much more heel heat than Orton. Orton comes out to basically 70% boos and 30% cheers lately and if you watch RAW you would notice. Punk is getting to JBL levels of heel heat with his promos and the way he acts and it is brilliant. Punk's promos have been better than the ones that came from all those feuds you mentioned. Crowds booing Punk for what he is saying when he actually is right is better than any boos Orton or Jericho can get. Punk is the best heel in the WWE right now with Orton being second and Jericho being third.

 

[X]

Serious? These are historic promos?

God damn right they are. Have you EVER heard promos like these before? A heel straight edge promo? Fuck no you haven't. Thus, yes, these are historic promos.

There is nothing in recent memory that compares? JBL/HBK feud earlier in the year had better promos than Punk/Hardy, and Jericho/HBK of last year along with HHH/Orton for 'Mania.

Show me one promo from any of those feuds that was better than some of the promos CM has been cutting the last few weeks. JBL/HBK? Triple H/Orton? Both of those feuds were terrible, especially in the promo department.

The straight edge stuff is gold, but its not the best I've heard, and its not the best in years. There has been much better stuff. Not to take away from Punk's promos, but he's getting an A+ from people where he should only be getting a B. Its not that fun to listen too.

You're crazy then. Show me who has cut better promos in the last few years than the ones Punk has been cutting.

Hardcore spotfest? You mean like a TLC or MITB match where his opponent(s) do(es) all the spots? Punk doesn't carry matches, at least not yet. He needs someone to carry him and make him look credible in the ring. He doesn't steal the show, his opponent does.

Right. Clearly you've never seen any of CM Punk's pre-WWE work. Explain to me again how Samoa Joe "carried" him in ROH. That should be a good one.

I watch SD! every week, its my favorite WWE Show, that's why I am saying "Punk ain't that good." Yeah he gets a decent reaction I don't debate that. He doesn't get more heat than Jericho or Orton.

WHAT? Are we talking about the same Orton that had people chanting his name at Summerslam and booing Cena? That's a top heel? Jericho? Jericho gets almost no reaction from the crowd these days, they could care less about anything he says or does unless he's directly insulting them.

Nobody gets more heat than CM Punk right now. Absolutely nobody, and if you think differently, prove it.

I responded and I'm right. I like to be on the other side of the fence here as I've seen way too much Punk love on the boards, and I honestly don't think the guy is all that. He's good...but when people start talking that top heel, and greatest promos in years stuff I have to jump in and crash the party.

I'd love for you to show me who's a better heel in the WWE right now, and who's cutting better promos. Go on, I'll wait.

 

[jr7936]

So bascally you are telling me, that kids need to think that not doing drugs and alcohol is bad.. Just want we need in this society kids trying drugs and alcohol. I could just see the lawsuit, if a kid overdoses on illegal drugs or if a parent finds their kids with illegal pills.
Bascally thats what punk is preaching if you look at everything logically.

 

[Барбоса]

For me, the only recent promos that have come anywhere close to what Punk has done with Hardy and Taker were the original "hypocrisy" promos of Chris Jericho aimed at HBK and the audience. Again, much like Punk, Y2J touched a nerve by exposing the audience to the truth. Why were the audience cheering for someone like HBK who had just faked an injury to get a victory over Batista? But since Jericho has become the WWE problem-solver by being used to reinvigorate the tag team division, his opportunities to showcase his talents have been more limited, leaving Punk on his own at the top of the table.

 

[X]

So bascally you are telling me, that kids need to think that not doing drugs and alcohol is bad.. Just want we need in this society kids trying drugs and alcohol. I could just see the lawsuit, if a kid overdoses on illegal drugs or if a parent finds their kids with illegal pills.
Bascally thats what punk is preaching if you look at everything logically.

Congratulations on failing the test for common sense. Do you actually think that's the message that the WWE is sending here? Not at all. They aren't saying CM Punk is a heel because he's straight edge and doesn't do drugs, he's a heel because he thinks that makes him better than everyone else. This is common heel psychology 101 man, come on.

 

[jr7936]

he's a heel because he thinks that makes him better than everyone else

I agree with that but the reason he thinks he is better then everyone else is because he is straight edge
All it takes is one kid or person who is not too smart and vince would have a lawsuit just like the kids who jump off the roof or do moves to imitate their favorite wrestlers.

 

[X]

I agree with that but the reason he thinks he is better then everyone else is because he is straight edge
All it takes is one kid or person who is not too smart and vince would have a lawsuit just like the kids who jump off the roof or do moves to imitate their favorite wrestlers.

The WWE isn't liable for kids hurting themselves by imitating their favorite wrestlers. Why would they be liable for some kid doing drugs? Someone could attempt to sue the WWE for this, but their case would be thrown out so quickly it would seem as though it had never even existed.

The Punk-Hardy feud was not about Punk being the heel because he was straight edge and Hardy being the face because he's used drugs. Did Hardy say "Drugs are good kids!" or something? Of course not, the feud was about Punk lambasting Hardy for having done drugs in the past. It was all about how Hardy had made some mistakes in his past. This is absolutely no different from, for example, the Triple H-Booker T feud from 2003 in which Triple H and others were lambasting Booker T for having been in prison before. Booker T was the face in that situation, do you think the WWE was trying to tell kids it's okay to go to prison? Of course not.

Use some common sense here man.

 

[Hazza270]

So what if his moves aren't as "devastating as some of his peers"? His character at the moment is similar to Edge, in that he is very crafty, and therefore doesn't need as devastating moves. That said, with his recent turn maybe now would be a good time for him to debut a new move, one from his indy days? It'd keep the character new and interesting. Also, his mic skills are second to none. Well, second to Jericho maybe...

 

[Junior]

punk has yet proved himself he won 2 world belts in a min bc of MITB. i feel like they pushing punk to be like edge...3 time champ in 2 years edge was a 8 time champ in 4 years punk is on his way. punk is a mid card wrestler Ic belts US belts hell put him on ECW and let him fight for the ecw belt...if u keep giving it to punk then fucking let Kane get a run as champ!

 

[Mark0820]

So bascally you are telling me, that kids need to think that not doing drugs and alcohol is bad.. Just want we need in this society kids trying drugs and alcohol. I could just see the lawsuit, if a kid overdoses on illegal drugs or if a parent finds their kids with illegal pills.
Bascally thats what punk is preaching if you look at everything logically.

Flat out wrong. Punk is saying if you drink or have drank or do/did drugs or smoked at any point in your life, he's better than you because he never has. I didn't think it was that complicated to understand.

 

[SSJPhenom]

So What

I was waiting on you to respond. This is going to be easy.

Thanks for re-establishing for us that he won MITB.

You're welcome. I thought that you didn't know since you said something so horribly wrong like, "CM Punk doesn't deserve the title."

I've never seen anything he has done that is better than Cena/HBK or Orton/HHH

Maybe not better than Cena/HBK but Orton/HHH, come on now. You are just arguing for the sake of arguing. If you really think that Orton/HHH are worth anything then you need to do some more research on wrestling or watch more wrestling or something. Their matches consist of build up to shit match. They have no chemistry whatsoever. BTW, I would guarantee that CM Punk could have a ten times better match with HBK than Cena.

Yeah its cool, but he's no Chris Jericho. Not by a long shot. Not even by the longest shot. He needs a lot more under his belt to be in the same breath as the LEGEND Chris Jericho.

Seriously? Chris Jericho a legend? There are only two legends in the WWE right now and that's 'Taker and HBK. You are right, however, Punk is no Jericho, he is only better and more interesting than Jericho is right now.

Ok he's not credible but yet he's the best heel in the company according to you? That doesn't make any sense to me.

He's not credible as a champion because he doesn't have a proven track record against the top main eventors in the WWE, however, he can still be a very good heel despite that. How is that so hard to understand?

Jeff Hardy had 3 top 10 selling items on on WWEShop.com. Jeff Hardy has been in the WWE for a decade and has CLASSIC historic matches are you serious? Are you serious? Let me say this again are you serious? Jeff Hardy is quite possibly dare I say it a Hall of Famer. Jeff Hardy is a WWE icon, and has put on some of the greatest matches in WWE History. Punk is decent on the mic but he's no Jericho, or HHH, or HBK, or Cena, or Orton, or Edge, or....you see my point?

So selling merchandise is reason enough to get title shots? Then Rey Mysterio should get one as soon as he comes back then, because he out sells Hardy. Longevity is reason enough to have a title shot? Why isn't Kane in the title picture or HBK? Jeff Hardy a hall of famer? Maybe by WWE's fucked up standards, but I wouldn't put him in. You are right again though Punk isn't any of those that you named above as far as mic skills goes. Right now, he is better than them all!

Huh? Of course 'Taker should be in the title picture. He just went 17-0 at WM 25. Just because he was out he's moved out the ranks? There's no one else there to face Punk. Who else qualifies over Taker then?

From a kayfabe point of view (if you even know what that means) winning a grudge match about 5 months ago would not warrant you a title shot. From a kayfabe point of view it should be JoMo that get's the title shot, but like I said, WWE hardly ever follows kayfabe, so it doesn't matter in this arguement.

 

[jrocc4dub]

here is the word of clarity from me C.M Punk is a great heel i give that but look at him he is extremely small hell i know what match i would have wanted for breaking point Undetaker V.s The Champ Kane put C.M Punk beside Kane and you will see that the kid has nothing on the big red guy he deserves it more than C.M and hell he is a lot more interesting in the ring than Cookie-Monster Punk

Seriously, we've all seen enough of kane vs taker in the past decade to last the rest of our lives. I love kane, always been a fan, but punk is way more over than kane as a heel. Kane isn't on the same level as punk is. Kane is more interesting than punk? Don't agree with that either. Punks heel promos have generated more heat than kane has in the past 5 years. Punks all around a better performer at this point in time. All this bullshit about his size and build is ridiculous too. Punks offense looks real, and his mic work is second to none. Just because a guy is big doesn't mean he's any good. Look at khali, festus, masters, and numerous others. I think the feud with hardy really elevated punk to the next level and he's taken the ball and ran with it. I really hope taker doesn't win the title. He doesn't need it and theyve done a tremendous job building punk as a mega heel. I'd hate for that to be wasted cuz taker wants a title reign since he's back. Whether anyone likes it or not, punk is the present and future of wwe. No wellness violations to worry about and the guy can perform. I don't understand why people hate on punk cuz of his size. Please no more taker vs kane though. Been there and seen it hundreds of times.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

OHHH MY LORD, WHAT A HECK??

DAMN IT!

GUYS HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN WHAT WRESTLING IS? CM PUNK A GREAT HEEL? THE GUY HAS 3 MONTHS DOING A DECENT PASSABLE JOB AND YOU CALL HIM THE BEST HEEL IN WWE? WHAT A DISRESPECT TO THE LEGENDS IS THAT? WHAT ABOUT JERICHO ABOUT EDGE ORTON? ARE YOU WATCHING CM PUNK ONLY? OR I DONT KNOW....

YOU SEE CM PUNK HAS INDEED THE POTENTIAL TO BE WORLD CHAMPION BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT HE'S NOT READY YET! THAT'S THE PROBLEM, CM PUNK IS NOT SO OILED IN THE RING YET, HAS HAD NO BIG MATCHES, AND HAS NOT HAD ENOUGH TIME IN WWE TO BE THE MAN DAMN IT!

I MEAN LOOK AT EDGE, HE'S A 9 TIME WORLD CHAMPION OK, BUT HEY! HE SPENT 7 YEARS IN WWE WORKING HARD, BATTLING THROUGH INJURIES HAVING AWESOME FEUDS AND ALL OF THAT, TO THEN CLIMB TO THE WORLD TITLE, SAME AS JEFF, JEFF DEBUTED IN WWE AT AGE 16, SPENT HIS DAMN ENTIRE LIFE BEATING THE HELL OUT OF HIS BODY TO THEN, CLIMB TO THE TOP. AND NOW CM PUNK DEBUTS IN 2006, IS GIVEN 2 MONEY IN THE BANKS THAT HE DIDN'T DESERVE AND THEN YOU ALL SAY HE'S GREAT, HE'S AWESOME, COME ON!!!!!!!

NAME 1 MATCH CM PUNK HAS HAD IN WWE THAT YOU'LL NEVER FORGET.

...........

SPACE IN BLANK BECAUSE HE HASN'T HAD ONE!

CM PUNK NOT READY, UNDESERVED PUSH AND IM VERY SAD ABOUT HAVING THAT THING IS WORLD CHAMPION

He is the best heel in the WWE right now. Orton is getting more cheers each and every night and Jericho hasn't done anything spectacular in a while. That thing has been cutting some of the best promos in a long time. That thing has had some of the best matches this year. This thing is doing great and I hope he continues to do so unless they have him lose to Taker at Breaking Point.

I know two Punk matches I'll never forget. Punk cashing in his MITB on both Edge and Jeff Hardy.

 

[Slam Master]

His promos are great right now...He's a good athlete...And he's worked hard and payed his dues...He really gets under my skin which is what a heel is supposed to do and the shit he said about Hardy's personal past habits were great(I wonder if he really got pissed backstage like HBK used to when Bret would go off).

 

[Captain Bean]

i agree completely with the thread starter. Punk has neither the physique or the move set or the wins under his belt to main event. he is ok on the mic, and his straight edge gimmick is original, but it still sucks. He does not deserve his spot, MVP would be much better in his place. Agreed? Hardy was ready, he had beaten Umaga several times, and HHH and was made to look strong against Orton. Punk has had a shit build up. Creative are to blame however he doesnt have the physique or move set to back up his main event status. He struggled to hit the GTS on JBL....whats he gonna do against Big Show, Taker, etc?!

As for someone who suggested he has overtaken Jericho.....bahaha that is ridiculous.

 

[emptyspiral28]

I've known Paul (Punk) for about 6 years. His work ethic is top notch. Now everyone, of course, is entitled to their opinions. But make no mistake about it. I don't know a soul in the wrestling buisness, and I know quite a bit, that works harder at what he does. That is a fact. And as far as saying he can't wrestle, that is just ludacris. Now i've seen some posts on how he had tremendous matches in ROH with a certain Samoa Joe. But what people fail to remember, is that he had, by far, one of the best matches EVER with one Raven. Ring a bell anyone?? So please, whether you love him or hate him, at least give him, and ALL other professional wrestlers who dedicate there lives (literally.....RIP Owen) for their craft, some credit and respect. He obviously has some talent and drive for him to get where he is..........what are YOU doing on Sunday?? I know what Paul will be doing.

 

[emptyspiral28]

whats he gonna do against Big Show, Taker, etc?!

ummmmm......anaconda vice perhaps......*nods*

limited move set?? you obviously have never seen him wrestle.....

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

i agree completely with the thread starter. Punk has neither the physique or the move set or the wins under his belt to main event. he is ok on the mic, and his straight edge gimmick is original, but it still sucks. He does not deserve his spot, MVP would be much better in his place. Agreed? Hardy was ready, he had beaten Umaga several times, and HHH and was made to look strong against Orton. Punk has had a shit build up. Creative are to blame however he doesnt have the physique or move set to back up his main event status. He struggled to hit the GTS on JBL....whats he gonna do against Big Show, Taker, etc?!

As for someone who suggested he has overtaken Jericho.....bahaha that is ridiculous.

What's ridculous is you thinking that MVP would be much better. What he has done lately that would warrant him being main event material. Seems like they trust CM Punk a whole lot more than they do MVP or he wouldn't be stuck in the midcard. Since when do you need to have a great physique to be main event. Jeff Hardy isn't Brad Pitt but he was a main eventer. Bret Hart and Chris Jericho are about the same height and build as CM Punk and yet they were main eventers.

How does his straight edge gimmick suck? He's getting more boos than anybody in the WWE right now so his gimmick must work isn't it? So what if he struggled to hit the GTS on JBL? Still did it didn't he so I don't see him having trouble doing it to Taker.

 

[emptyspiral28]

Hey Rated R Champion......do you know what wrestling really is?? Apparently not. punk has been in the buisness now for quite some time. But that obviously doesn't matter to you since you only care about his WWE exploits. I can name 2 (outa the many might I add) companies that produce a much better show than WWE. TNA and ROH. If you had ever seen CM Punk battle Raven or Samoa Joe in TNA, you would remember it for the rest of your days. I know.....I was there. You know.....there is life outside of WWE. And even in WWE, I totally agree with Little Jerry Lawler. Cashing in both MITB were excellent matches.

 

[emptyspiral28]

I must correct myself from the last post......i meant Raven and Joe in ROH......apologies....

 

[SSJPhenom]

Captain Bean, I shouldn't even dignify you with a response but I will.

That is just ridiculous. You are talking about his body type and then you say that Hardy was ready? CM Punk is larger than Hardy is.

Then you say that MVP would be better. I highly doubt that. He isn't that great on the mic and his in ring skills need work. When has MVP had a great match?

Jericho is great, no doubt about it, but what has he done in the past couple of months? He is trying to bring the tag titles back up and he argued with an 80 year old man on Raw. Yea, CM Punk is better than Jericho is right now.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

CM Punk is easily the most exciting performer to both watch and listen to in any promotion in America today. That's not even arguable, I don't know a single wrestler working today that generates as much buzz in the ring as Punk does whether it be in a match or cutting a promo.

Punk has easily had some of the best matches of the year, I've yet to see him wrestle once in 2009 in which I haven't enjoyed myself. He can have a great match in just about any type of environment, whether it be a spotfest, a technical back and forth to an outright brawl.

What's this nonsense about him not "desvering" to be in the main event? Not credible? Have you even watched Smackdown the past 3 or 4 months? His work on the mic right now is pure, solid gold and that's all there is to it. This past Friday, Punk cemented himself as the most hated guy in the WWE to an even greater degree. Him coming out dressed like Hardy, dancing to Hardy's music and cutting the promo was absolutely sick. Did you see the look on the faces of the audience members the camera zoomed in on? Men and women looked like they wanted to jump the railing and kill him and so did half the kids in the audience that weren't bawling their eyes out. Nobody, but nobody, in wrestling today gets as much heat as CM Punk does.

The guy is incredible to watch in the ring, his promos are gold and he very much deserves the spot he's in. That's all there is to it.

 

[emptyspiral28]

Agreed