Cena Booed Because People Love To Hate Him?

[RicoLen]

You know by that logic you've got there with Cena, you should also hate HBK too. Except that you're too young to realize it.

HBK afterall was in fact getting his match of the year honors only when the WWE was doing crap in the ratings. 1993-1996 HBK has match of the year, then again 2004-2010 the next big slump in pro-wrestling history, HBK gets match of the year.

Just for the sake of argument let's roll with that K?

HBK gains booking power. Behind the scenes it's no secret that Vince McMahon LOVES HBK, that's why HBK is listed as his #1 favorite superstar of all time, er I mean, he's listed at WWE's best superstar of all time. Tomato Tomato... (you know that expression doesn't work as well when written down). So all the superstars that the fans know and love are gone, by 1993 Hogan, Warrior, Savage, gone, Bret Hart is causing problems because he's got moral integrity, and Vince has none of that. So you start pushing this young guy that's got all the talent of the older guys, and working with him to make sure he puts out the best matches of the year. The fans eat it up, which is exactly what you wanted, never mind that there were better stars that could have been pushed and put on better matches, at least you're getting the results you want with Shawn. No one, likes working with him because he's an arrogant prick taken under Vince's wing, but no one's willing to speak up about because he's an arrogant prick taken under Vince's wing. Meanwhile the company is going in the crapper because those who CAN draw are leaving for WCW, but Vince just keeps pushing HBK anyways and all the little kids just eat it up an think he's the best thing ever because he's super-shawn. Enter the attitude era, and bigger stars are born, and HBK is injured and retires and things turn around and are better than ever. Then fast forward a few years, those NEW guys that grew to be massive draws start leaving, HBK returns, ratings take a dump, Vince goes back to pushing HBK like he did in the 90's and for 7 years he's on top, all the while ratings and fans are completely pissed off and sick of it, so Vince sets Cena up as a scapegoat, all while still secretly pushing HBK and giving him whatever he wants, and HBK is safe because all those kids that grew up with his stupid crap in the 90's are older now, and love him and are loyal and vocal that he's the best thing in the WWE, and it's not his fault everything sucks, it's all Cena's who's been taken under Vince's wing and pushed in our faces. Just wait and see John Cena vs CM Punk will be match of the year, and for the next several years John Cena will get match of the year and prove my arguement.

There you go, HBK was shoved down our throats, and only got over because he went away for a few years so you little attitude era tykes could grow up and let the nostalgia for him take over and as older teens and 20 somethings you could help Vince shove him down our throat all over again.


You like that logic? Guess what? That's exactly what you're saying about John Cena.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Now we're arguing over why fans boo Cena? As if there's a single reason everyone can agree with. There are lots of reasons, I suppose.

They hate him for no reason. They believe he doesn't know how to wrestle. They don't like jean shorts. They hate his t-shirts. They hate the 5 Knuckle Shuffle. His song sucks. He stole your lunch money in the 8th grade. He fucked your wife. Who knows.

There is no universal reason to hate John Cena. Every person has his/her own reason. Some of those reasons make a lot of you sound really, really stupid, but there isn't a universal reason to hate Cena.

And no, I don't buy into this people boo him because they really love him bullshit. No, not even close.

 

[RD_21]

You know by that logic you've got there with Cena, you should also hate HBK too. Except that you're too young to realize it.

HBK afterall was in fact getting his match of the year honors only when the WWE was doing crap in the ratings. 1993-1996 HBK has match of the year, then again 2004-2010 the next big slump in pro-wrestling history, HBK gets match of the year.

Just for the sake of argument let's roll with that K?

HBK gains booking power. Behind the scenes it's no secret that Vince McMahon LOVES HBK, that's why HBK is listed as his #1 favorite superstar of all time, er I mean, he's listed at WWE's best superstar of all time. Tomato Tomato... (you know that expression doesn't work as well when written down). So all the superstars that the fans know and love are gone, by 1993 Hogan, Warrior, Savage, gone, Bret Hart is causing problems because he's got moral integrity, and Vince has none of that. So you start pushing this young guy that's got all the talent of the older guys, and working with him to make sure he puts out the best matches of the year. The fans eat it up, which is exactly what you wanted, never mind that there were better stars that could have been pushed and put on better matches, at least you're getting the results you want with Shawn. No one, likes working with him because he's an arrogant prick taken under Vince's wing, but no one's willing to speak up about because he's an arrogant prick taken under Vince's wing. Meanwhile the company is going in the crapper because those who CAN draw are leaving for WCW, but Vince just keeps pushing HBK anyways and all the little kids just eat it up an think he's the best thing ever because he's super-shawn. Enter the attitude era, and bigger stars are born, and HBK is injured and retires and things turn around and are better than ever. Then fast forward a few years, those NEW guys that grew to be massive draws start leaving, HBK returns, ratings take a dump, Vince goes back to pushing HBK like he did in the 90's and for 7 years he's on top, all the while ratings and fans are completely pissed off and sick of it, so Vince sets Cena up as a scapegoat, all while still secretly pushing HBK and giving him whatever he wants, and HBK is safe because all those kids that grew up with his stupid crap in the 90's are older now, and love him and are loyal and vocal that he's the best thing in the WWE, and it's not his fault everything sucks, it's all Cena's who's been taken under Vince's wing and pushed in our faces. Just wait and see John Cena vs CM Punk will be match of the year, and for the next several years John Cena will get match of the year and prove my arguement.

There you go, HBK was shoved down our throats, and only got over because he went away for a few years so you little attitude era tykes could grow up and let the nostalgia for him take over and as older teens and 20 somethings you could help Vince shove him down our throat all over again.


You like that logic? Guess what? That's exactly what you're saying about John Cena.

Is that reply directed to me? Because it has almost nothing to do with my post and it looks like you only took the shoved down the throath and ratings argument, but you may not be talking to me but only my post was between your 2 replies and you didn't quote anyone.

If it's not directed to me fine, if it is I know how HBK was hated by grown men but it had to do with the fact that he was with long hair and dressing like a village poeople guy in an ear that was borderline homophobic too like Bret said in his book, but anyway.

If it's directed to me you seems to fail to read all my post where I state that I don't hate Cena and where I spoke in detail on what I think should be done to help Cena even more to reach higher ground or help someone else achieve it. Your reply sounds agressive and my post isn't warranting that kind of reply so I may be wrong and maybe it wasn't directed to me, but as established everywhere I don't hate Cena and wish he could succeed more and maybe change his things a little and say why it's harder to get fully behind Cena because he has no opposition.

I just don't buy the argument that he is the most over so no one has any argument against it, I provided one.

If your post wasn't directed to me feel free to ignore this post

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

TWJC, you want fact dude, I will give you the same on I've given in multiple threads.

Cena = Most over wrestler today, FACT
Cena = Most over wrestler in an era that can barely draw 3's in the ratings, FACT
Many of my friends stop watching wrestling and wrestling is not as cool as it used to be, FACT
My friends who stopped watching, may not represent the whole world, FACT
Monday night wars era used to draw in the 6's in the ratings, FACT
6 is higher than 3, FACT

Now with those fact we can establish that Cena, Cena and another top face or just another top face could draw more. Cena is the most over with the current fanbase but it doesn't mean that him and/or someone esle couldn't attract another fan base.

So Cena being the most over actually, doesn't mean you shouldn't risk or invest in something different because someone else may draw you in the 3. But as long as they protect Cena and shove it down the throat of some fans who can't take him anymore, they won't get those fans back.

In my opinions and based on my experience, wrestling was cool when us teenager were into it. Now if you are a teenager your little brother will makes you ashame to say you like wrestling when he thinks he is super cool in his Cena's gear.

I am not saying Cena don't draw and never will, but I can say that he is not drawing like others could. We can't blame Cena alone for making wrestling uncool to a lot, but a proportion of people are turned off by him on their television. We also have to look at the fact that they were mutliples draw back in the 6's era so that may have something to do.

But then again who's fault is it that there's only one big draw in the WWE? Sure the fans get behind someone but it would be idiotic and foolish to think that you don't have a better chance of getting over when the management gets behind you.

I will give you an example, back when the Miz was having his imaginary feud against Cena where we was coming out, calling him out and then saying 1-0, 2-0, 3-0, 4-0, 5-0. The Miz was amazing on the mic and were calling it like we are right now. Cena then comes out and SQUASH him 2 weeks in a row. Now let's forget Miz status in the company today, but at that time even a cheap win with a weapon or a rool up via a distraction would have mean a LOT to the Miz. A lost for Cena at this point of his career can be brushed off the next night but a win for The Miz would have been tremendous.

Same things when Cena goes through the tag champ or when Miz destroy or outsmart the whole Nexus, come on the "I will find a way to outsmart and beat you using wording on your command" was lame, even Harry Potter knew best when he asked Kreatur to not speak to Malfoy or tell anyone. Maybe for his fans it was funny and they were happy, but his haters had hopes that he would be a slave for a least a week or two or that he would be fired for a least a month, even more so after the speech he gave.

Cena at the moment is facing the same problem that HHH once did when he was feuding with midcard to higher midcard RVD, he went through every challengers and he had no one left that were equal to him, we knew that HHH would win no matter what. Cena needs to lose even if it's not clean so his opponnents can look like they have a chance. The face should be the underdog, that's good business and wrestling 101. You can't stack odds against Cena because everyone (okay maybe not everyone word police) knows he will win, is there really some kids scared that Cena will lose?

The WWE create one of their biggest draw, no... their biggest draw since Austin and Rocky but they also dig themselves in a hole that they can't get out until they stop to protect Cena that much. I am not complainning that Cena wins the war in the end, even if it would be better if there was another draw so someone else could win the war and title like in the Austin and Rocky era, but he needs to lose WAY more fights than he does. The heel needs to cheat and wins 2-3-4 fights before Cena is allowed to overcome the odds, that's smart booking.

You know what else can be smart booking, bring Big Show and Kane back, they say that while sideline they had time to watch and think, think that they've become nothing more than a joke. That Mark Henry showed them what a real monster should be and that they want to align with him an start inducting some fear back into people. They then destroy Cena and Orton as a stable, take the title away from both. Every week they deastroy and cheat to win with their strenght and the power the numbers. Then you can have Cena or Orton make an upset and win the title back at a PPV or even better, Cena and Orton could fail and you could have a new face get an upset victory with the help of Cena and Orton (Mankind winning the title with the help of DX) to help create another face that your young fan base will really get behind.

"À vaincre sans péril on triomphe sans gloire" that's a french expression that means that basically means that if you win without a challenge, your victory means nothing. Great peoples comes out of great struggle. Right now there's no heel that can seriously challenge Cena, he needs his nemesis that will have his number and that Cena just can't beat so that the day he finally beat him it just taste better, but for that Cena will need to start to lose.

And PS.: By the end of the Punk/Cena feud it was no Let's go Cena, Cena Sucks it was Let's go Cena, CM PUNK

The ratings thing is pretty much the stupidest argument you guys use. That's like saying Albert Pujols sucks because the Cardinals won't make the playoffs. It's a team effort.

The argument not only sucks because of that but, because you guys are stupid enough to think that the TV market is the same in 2011 as it was in 2001 or even 2007. Markets change, you can't use direct numbers, you have to look at the grand scheme of things.

Not, it wasn't "lets go Cena CM Punk" if people actually cared about Punk as much as people on here think, he would have been over vs Miz and would have gotten a much louder reaction vs HHH. Instead, Punk's appeal is to the smarks, that's why he only gets super loud reactions when he's against Cena or in a smarket.

"many of MY friends have stopped watching wrestling, wrestling is not cool, FACT" and here is egocentric thinking at it's finest. Just because IN YOUR LIFE that's how it is, doesn't mean that's how it really is. Wrestling has never actually been "cool" in the tude era it was trash TV that trashy people watched. Seriously, anyone I know, when I talk about wrestling, they say "that crude stuff with the cussing and nudity?" It was cool to YOU as a teen or however old you were. Stop thinking the way you think and the way your life runs is the way the world works.

Saying "Raw used to get 6s and now it gets 3s" is such a stupid argument I almost feel bad for you. People used to pay 300,000 dollars for a house that they'd buy now for 150,000, markets change. People used to buy full CDs, now they buy Itunes, times change. It's absolutely, positively, fucking dumbest person ever level of stupidity to think that the TV market from 1998-2001 is at all the same as it is now.

And another statement where you think your life and your mindest is how everyone is with the whole "ashamed". So, you're ashamed of your little brother for wearing a shirt that represents a "good guy" but you weren't ashamed when you'd see a Jerry Springer wrestling show? I have news for you, the attitude era LOST a lot of fans. It just gained so many trashy people that it made up for it. In fact, Harley Race opened up his indy company in 1999 with the goal of restoring a wholesome image to wrestling in the community. So yea, agian, stop fucking thinking that the way you think is how everyone thinks. Children before the age of 7 think that way. Instead, analyse things with objectivity.

Yes the face should be the underdog. However, he should also be in the main event and in the highest profile match. Don't lecture me on business, I know more about it than you.

Decent storyline idea, but kind of generic.

awesome, you know french, I know spanish and german.

If you want to talk about 'struggle'. How about, in the attitude era?

WCW was competition to WWF in the same way that college football and the NFL is competition. If one does better, the other draws interest. So right there, WWF had more interest coming it's way. The UFC and WWE are like Baseball and Football. If football becomes more popular, less people watch baseball because it's in the same realm, but seen as better. So right away WWE has more problems.

2) in the Tude era, WWF didn't have someone kill their family and themself. Now they do, another hardship.

3) In the Tude era, there were maybe 40 channels, now theres about 200, the internet, Tivo, and IPhone Apps. More competition, more means to watch makes it harder to judge success.

4) The tude era was coming out of the worst period financially in WWE history, even worse than today. Recently, they're the era after one of the biggest booms ever.

So you're right, look at things in perspective and some things don't look as great as you thought.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

^ you said christ beniots death was the reason why wwe dropped ratings in 2009 when he died in 2007 your facts are obselete! cena is overatted and past his prime weather you like it or not!! the new era is aboard and there is no room for a pg ******

Yea, because people forgot about Benoit doing that and there wasn't an effect that lasted years and is still happening.

did you not even read my post where I pointed out that both hart and austin were older than Cena when they were on top? Plus Cena is in better shape than both were and medicine is better too.

Also funny that PG is the reason you don't like it. You're basically admitting that the attitude era NEEDED to resort to trash TV tactics like titties, beer, and blood to get over. Think about it like this smart guy. The Rock's charcter fuckin sucked and didn't get over PG. However, once he was allowed to cuss and shit, then he got over. Cena got over when he could cuss, he got over when he was restricted.

Then again, your post is from the perspective of your "character" that you are running where you mock the IWCs stupidity by having the worst debate skills known to man and think everyone else has the same opinion as you and you completely disregard logic or good business sense or any objectivity at all. It's a funny character you have.

 

[Dolph Ziggler]

the attitude era ended in early 2002! when the brand switch happened wwe was still tv 14 6 years after that! you cant go back to tv 14 and expect an attitude era!! i just hate cena because! he always has to be in the wwe championship match! even though cena has admitted he is the most loved and hated wwe superstar in history and admits he has a limited moveset and isn't the best wrestler! he's just sooo anoying!! i mean who kind of 35 year old saids i want fairytales to become true tonight dreams will happen! does he have downsyndrome

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

the attitude era ended in early 2002! when the brand switch happened wwe was still tv 14 6 years after that! you cant go back to tv 14 and expect an attitude era!! i just hate cena because! he always has to be in the wwe championship match! even though cena has admitted he is the most loved and hated wwe superstar in history and admits he has a limited moveset and isn't the best wrestler! he's just sooo anoying!! i mean who kind of 35 year old saids i want fairytales to become true tonight dreams will happen! does he have downsyndrome

You aren't even trying anymore are you?

So you hate Cena because he's booked to win a lot, does everything the company wants him to do, and gets over. Also, "limited moveset" does not mean bad in the ring. Booker T was giving him a complement saying that he gets very over only using a few moves. Go watch an old Lawler match from Memphis or even better, watch Lawler vs Race from Memphis in 1978. They don't use a lot of moves but they get ridiculously over with the fans.

The kind of 35 year old who is a great company man and is the most over guy on the planet.

Also, no, Punk isn't over with women or children or even the entire male demographic. Punk is over with computer savvy males who fancy themselves "smart" wrestling fans. These males are also typically only a strong (loud) segment in smarkets.

Saying Punk is a huge draw is like saying Mello Yellow is a huge draw just because you love it. Mello Yellow is my favorite soda but I'm not going to say it's a bigger "draw" than Coke.

 

[AngryCenaFan]

You say CM Punk is not over/only over with smarks, yet the MITB PPV drew a 20 percent higher buyrate this year, with him being one of the centerpieces of the PPV. So he definitely contributed to the increased buyrate, since he happened to be in the Main Event, W/Cena

I posed this question to you in another topic, if Cena is truly popular as you say, then why do RAW's second hours drop off, when he is usually part of the main event in some way? is that Because all the Cena fans have to be put to bed by Mommy and Daddy before the show is over?

I boo Cena because I hate the "SUPER CENA" Persona, not him as a wrestler or person, although when he tries to be funny it adds to my dislike of his character. When he's serious he's at his best. When he's actually in the ring with someone that pushes him, like Punk Cena doesn't settle for being Mr.5 moves of doom, but alot of the time he coasts and sticks to it especially with the younger talents

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

You say CM Punk is not over/only over with smarks, yet the MITB PPV drew a 20 percent higher buyrate this year, with him being one of the centerpieces of the PPV. So he definitely contributed to the increased buyrate, since he happened to be in the Main Event, W/Cena

I posed this question to you in another topic, if Cena is truly popular as you say, then why do RAW's second hours drop off, when he is usually part of the main event in some way? is that Because all the Cena fans have to be put to bed by Mommy and Daddy before the show is over?

I boo Cena because I hate the "SUPER CENA" Persona, not him as a wrestler or person, although when he tries to be funny it adds to my dislike of his character. When he's serious he's at his best. When he's actually in the ring with someone that pushes him, like Punk Cena doesn't settle for being Mr.5 moves of doom, but alot of the time he coasts and sticks to it especially with the younger talents

MITB draw a lot more in part because of CM Punk. However, it's tough to tell how much you can attribute to one man. If Punk was this much of a one man money magnate, then his matches against OTHER people would be over. Instead I think that his character is such that he needs a foil to be interesting to most people. It's why him vs Cena and him vs HHH is a huge draw, but him vs Miz gets a weak reaction (for the standards).

Do they? Show me the numbers. I would guess that it being 11 on the east coast by the end of a show would factor into that. The younger audience on the east coast probably does have to go to bed.

You hate the persona, so he's a heel to you.

 

[AngryCenaFan]

MITB draw a lot more in part because of CM Punk. However, it's tough to tell how much you can attribute to one man. If Punk was this much of a one man money magnate, then his matches against OTHER people would be over. Instead I think that his character is such that he needs a foil to be interesting to most people. It's why him vs Cena and him vs HHH is a huge draw, but him vs Miz gets a weak reaction (for the standards).

Do they? Show me the numbers. I would guess that it being 11 on the east coast by the end of a show would factor into that. The younger audience on the east coast probably does have to go to bed.

You hate the persona, so he's a heel to you.

Well IMO considering the fact Punks first "shoot" promo was getting mainstream media play he probably had alot to do with increased buyrates, when Bill Simmons has you on his ESPN Podcast as a wrestler it is a big deal, it's the no.1 downloaded sports podcast on iTunes. Add in the fact MITB delivered and the replay was probably getting more buys than usual.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/241346-raw-rating-for-829-is-in
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/240655-wwe-815-raw-rating-how-did-post-summerslam-do


this is from the last 3 weeks, two shows doing worse second hours, it's not a good sign.

He's a heel to me? how is he a heel when i'm not supposed to hate him?

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Well IMO considering the fact Punks first "shoot" promo was getting mainstream media play he probably had alot to do with increased buyrates, when Bill Simmons has you on his ESPN Podcast as a wrestler it is a big deal, it's the no.1 downloaded sports podcast on iTunes. Add in the fact MITB delivered and the replay was probably getting more buys than usual.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/241346-raw-rating-for-829-is-in
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/240655-wwe-815-raw-rating-how-did-post-summerslam-do


this is from the last 3 weeks, two shows doing worse second hours, it's not a good sign.

He's a heel to me? how is he a heel when i'm not supposed to hate him?

Congratulations. WWE has former employees working for ESPN and ESPN makes wrestling references all the time. Do they give a shit now?

Also, yes, you ARE supposed to boo him. The WWE understands that the audience isn't uniform. Thus, when they do something to sell to normal people, smarks will hate it, and vice versa.

As for Ziggler, Cena gets A REACTION everywhere. He doesn't ever get a quiet response like what Punk did. Cena doesn't have weak crowds, that's why he's the top draw.

 

[AngryCenaFan]

Congratulations. WWE has former employees working for ESPN and ESPN makes wrestling references all the time. Do they give a shit now?

Also, yes, you ARE supposed to boo him. The WWE understands that the audience isn't uniform. Thus, when they do something to sell to normal people, smarks will hate it, and vice versa.

As for Ziggler, Cena gets A REACTION everywhere. He doesn't ever get a quiet response like what Punk did. Cena doesn't have weak crowds, that's why he's the top draw.

ESPN reaches the same demo that WWE does, in terms of it's core. Bill Simmons never worked for WWE, he is one of the most followed people on twitter, when he has a wrestling guy on it's a BIG deal. He's had 3 that I can recall, HBK, Miz, and Punk. Again this is the no.1 most downloaded sports podcast on itunes, it's a big deal.

As soon as Punk used the Living Colour theme, they were on the itunes top 100 charts, again more proof of his relevance.

I'm supposed to Boo Cena? since when? since he's the top merch guy, you'd think they wouldn't want to alienate people in terms of buying his crap.

 

[Alittude]

Here are the facts. He sells more merch than anyone, he gets the loudest reactions of everyone, he likely has the highest quarter hour segment ratings than anyone. He gets boos and cheers. This leads to 2 possible explanations.

1) The people who boo him love to boo him. They're smiling when they boo him, they look like they're having fun. They're not going to the bathroom. Plus people don't generally watch what they hate.

2) The people booing him actually hate him, but due to the fact that he's the biggest draw suggests that the segment that hates him, while loud, isn't big enough to even matter.

In other words, people love to boo him. He works the boos. He's a catalyst for a loud reaction against anyone he wrestles. Notice when he gets booed the chants are "Lets go Cena Cena sucks" not typically "lets go Cena Lets go wrestler B".

Another thing, stop with this "shoved down our throats" bullshit. People wanted it. If they didn't, he wouldn't have been so fucking over would he? The WWE pushes guys, if they get over, the get pushed some more. So basically what you guys are saying is "fuckin John Cena getting super over when they push him". It's like saying you're sick of Coke pushing Coke. Just fucking dumb.

You guys seriously need to seperate your opinions and start looking at things objectively. You'll understand more and not look so stupid when you state your opinions and personal feelings as facts.

Also, it's not like anyone else could take his place. Lesnar is a hermit, Lashley and Batista couldn't take it, Orton can't get as over. Cena is the only guy with the ability, work ethic, and mass appeal.

People can be stupid and say "Austin wasn't always at the top" true, but Austin wasn't always healthy either. You can say "Rock wasn't always at the top" true, but Rock also left and started making movies after about 3 years on top. You can say "after Rock and Austin there wasn't one guy" true, but that's because none of them were far and away a bigger draw than everyone else. You could say "HBK wasn't always on top" true, but HBK also broke his back and wasn't as big of a draw. You could say "Hart wasn't always on top" true, but he didn't have the mass appeal and was older when he was pushed, thus WWE was looking for another star". You could say "he's like Hogan", which in the sense that he's by far the biggest draw in the company with a desire to stay with the company and be the top guy for 5-10 years then yes, that's true.


All these stupid opinion basd "so and so is better on the mic" "so and so is better in the ring" are dumb ass arguments. How do you guys watch baseball? "Matt Holliday's swing is prettier, thus, he's a better player than Albert Pujols". It's fucking INSANITY. Stop using your opinion to back up your opinion. Use objective means.

Most hypocritical thing you could have ever said. That is exactly what you do man. Boy you sure are you delusional. Your posts come off in such a whining horrible manner try to reply to a thread with out putting people down to try and validate your opinion. You obviously can't accept that there's a large audience that is sick of him for whatever reason. You say he works the boo's well yeah he does now but why do you think people boo'd him in the begging. He was never intended to get boo'd like that and it's silly to praise him for it like it was.

 

[Alittude]

You aren't even trying anymore are you?



Also, no, Punk isn't over with women or children or even the entire male demographic. Punk is over with computer savvy males who fancy themselves "smart" wrestling fans. These males are also typically only a strong (loud) segment in smarkets.

Saying Punk is a huge draw is like saying Mello Yellow is a huge draw just because you love it. Mello Yellow is my favorite soda but I'm not going to say it's a bigger "draw" than Coke.

Are you actually blind? He is obviously over with more people than just the smarks that's a ridiculous statement. Look around every week there are CM Punk shirts everywhere that includes kids and people of all ages. He gets the biggest chants every week when he is on the mic. He singlehandedly made wrestling relevant again to people who haven't cared in years. He sells merch and draws viewers so how the hell is he not a draw. He's stuff is selling a lot more than Orton's at the moment and he's supposed to be the second biggest face so again how is he not a big draw. Total ignorant comment and I again don't get your blind hate as it has no substance what so ever.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

cm punk has also been nominated for kids choice awards australia! so that just proved you wrong

OMG!!!!!!!!!! CM Punk was nominated for a award in Australia. Call the presses. This is great news. They should totally mention this on the next episode of Raw. It would gain like so many new viewers and ratings go up like they did with Punk being the main focus.

Now, let us return to reality.

When Punk did his promo which made everyone equate him to God, he only catered to a small audience which is the internet audience. Truly, how many people really knew what he was talking about? The answer would be the people who are always on the internet and read the dirtsheets. The casual viewer knows next to nothing about who Colt Cobana is and what is Ring of Honor. Punk had to basically break kayfabe to garner interest in him and the WWE and ratings basically stayed the same.

But seriously, what does the Australian Kids Choice award look like? This is crucial.

 

[RD_21]

The ratings thing is pretty much the stupidest argument you guys use. That's like saying Albert Pujols sucks because the Cardinals won't make the playoffs. It's a team effort.

The argument not only sucks because of that but, because you guys are stupid enough to think that the TV market is the same in 2011 as it was in 2001 or even 2007. Markets change, you can't use direct numbers, you have to look at the grand scheme of things.

Not, it wasn't "lets go Cena CM Punk" if people actually cared about Punk as much as people on here think, he would have been over vs Miz and would have gotten a much louder reaction vs HHH. Instead, Punk's appeal is to the smarks, that's why he only gets super loud reactions when he's against Cena or in a smarket.

"many of MY friends have stopped watching wrestling, wrestling is not cool, FACT" and here is egocentric thinking at it's finest. Just because IN YOUR LIFE that's how it is, doesn't mean that's how it really is. Wrestling has never actually been "cool" in the tude era it was trash TV that trashy people watched. Seriously, anyone I know, when I talk about wrestling, they say "that crude stuff with the cussing and nudity?" It was cool to YOU as a teen or however old you were. Stop thinking the way you think and the way your life runs is the way the world works.

Saying "Raw used to get 6s and now it gets 3s" is such a stupid argument I almost feel bad for you. People used to pay 300,000 dollars for a house that they'd buy now for 150,000, markets change. People used to buy full CDs, now they buy Itunes, times change. It's absolutely, positively, fucking dumbest person ever level of stupidity to think that the TV market from 1998-2001 is at all the same as it is now.

And another statement where you think your life and your mindest is how everyone is with the whole "ashamed". So, you're ashamed of your little brother for wearing a shirt that represents a "good guy" but you weren't ashamed when you'd see a Jerry Springer wrestling show? I have news for you, the attitude era LOST a lot of fans. It just gained so many trashy people that it made up for it. In fact, Harley Race opened up his indy company in 1999 with the goal of restoring a wholesome image to wrestling in the community. So yea, agian, stop fucking thinking that the way you think is how everyone thinks. Children before the age of 7 think that way. Instead, analyse things with objectivity.

Yes the face should be the underdog. However, he should also be in the main event and in the highest profile match. Don't lecture me on business, I know more about it than you.

Decent storyline idea, but kind of generic.

awesome, you know french, I know spanish and german.

If you want to talk about 'struggle'. How about, in the attitude era?

WCW was competition to WWF in the same way that college football and the NFL is competition. If one does better, the other draws interest. So right there, WWF had more interest coming it's way. The UFC and WWE are like Baseball and Football. If football becomes more popular, less people watch baseball because it's in the same realm, but seen as better. So right away WWE has more problems.

2) in the Tude era, WWF didn't have someone kill their family and themself. Now they do, another hardship.

3) In the Tude era, there were maybe 40 channels, now theres about 200, the internet, Tivo, and IPhone Apps. More competition, more means to watch makes it harder to judge success.

4) The tude era was coming out of the worst period financially in WWE history, even worse than today. Recently, they're the era after one of the biggest booms ever.

So you're right, look at things in perspective and some things don't look as great as you thought.

You see most of the time I respect you and thought you were mature but when you STILL try to put me in a f***ing category that I told you MANY TIME not to do I see that maybe I gave you too much credit.

Instead of discussing my well thought post in a respectful manner you feel the need to place me in the same bag of every single idiot on this forums that hate Cena, love Punk and his a dumb smark.

I won't start the pointless "I know more than you" argument because I know a lot and I don't really know what you know and don't but I am not an idiot.

You want to pick single part of my freaking 12 paragraph post to make me look stupid and that's idiotic.

I even stated that the rating can't be blame on Cena, that's it's the lack of competition, the lack of draw and a lot of other thing and you say "You guys are dumb posting about the ratings, that's a stupid arguments". WTF? dude, seriously?

I even stated that back in the day when the ratings were higher, wrestling was cool, the landscape were different, teenager were liking wrestling and were openly admitting it. I know we were at my school.

I never said I was ashamed at my brother, I don't even have a brother. I have a little sister and I know I have been a teenager with a "kid" sister. What's cool for you younger sibling is uncool for a teenager that's how IT ALWAYS WORKED EVERYWHERE. If a music group is cool for your young brother/sister, you as a teenager usually think it's uncool.

And wtf should I care that you know more language than I do, yes I am a french canadian, so freaking what? I used the expression in french in quote because I know I would deform it because I don't know the equivalent in English and I wanted the other french Canadian who read the forums (there's a lot by the way) to know the exact thing I meant.

I am not an idiot who knows nothing about wrestling and I thought that my long post would show you that, but il looks like you only have one way to argue and that's to resort to name calling. I am respectful enough to remember your name and argument when I argue with you I would expect you to do the same over the 4-5 topics we debated now.

You always try to say that you are not a fan of Cena but you always jump on your high horse when someone try to make a case against Cena. And guess what, my post wasn't even a case against Cena so I don't know why you gave me that garbage reply attacking me and calling my argument dumb and stupid and don't resort to "I said it because they were". It's okay I guess to name call an idiot who say stupid and dumb shits but my post wasn't idiot and dumb and I won't let you threat it that way.

You said Cena is a draw and I even f***ing agree with you, I even stated he was the biggest draw AT THE MOMENT, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't be a bigger draw with the people who stopped following wrestling because of him and those of stop not because of him, he could draw them back or someone else could.

If you failed to get that out of my post, maybe you should stop reading diagonally and replying to every god damn post around here and be more generic in your reply instead of making a mission of trying to run every person who don't agree with you to the ground.

You may have more post than me and be more active than me but you have NO RIGHTS to name call people even more so when it's unwarranted.

I am not going to repost EVERY arguments I ever made but in most of my post I say that I know that my personnal experience doesn't represent everybody but it still mean something.

What I get is that you don't respect anyone and you see everybody as idiots, I thought I would be above that with the others debate we had but you refuse to debate in an adult way it seems and you think every person is dumb. I never said that my experience meant everyone had to think like me but that's your go to argument so if I don't say I know I am not everyone then you feel the need to put words in my mouth or itentions in my word. If you respected people you were arguing with you would stop taking them for idiots and putting your counter arguments in their words.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Most hypocritical thing you could have ever said. That is exactly what you do man. Boy you sure are you delusional. Your posts come off in such a whining horrible manner try to reply to a thread with out putting people down to try and validate your opinion. You obviously can't accept that there's a large audience that is sick of him for whatever reason. You say he works the boo's well yeah he does now but why do you think people boo'd him in the begging. He was never intended to get boo'd like that and it's silly to praise him for it like it was.

I don't post my opinion though. I post observations backed up by what's happening. Most people on here it's "Cena is boring" that's an opinion.

It may not have ever been intended for him to get booed, but I think he SHOULD be praised for realizing that they would watch him regardless and probably enjoyed booing him and then worked it. Saying he shouldn't be praised is like saying a hitter who thinks a fastball is coming, gets the changeup, stays back, and blasts it out of the park shouldn't be praised.

To Altitude, no, there are NOT kids wearing the shirt. What show are you watching. No, he does NOT get the loudest chants of the night when he's on the mic, on Smackdown with HHH he didn't get much of a reaction. No he did NOT make wrestling relevant, no one is talking about it now. It was a flash in the pan for about 2 weeks. CM Punk IS a draw, but he's not as much of a draw as people think. What is your basis that Punk sells more merch than Orton? Do you see the sales figures or is it based of what you see? If Punk's shirts are still selling in December, then let me know. Punk had a hot streak. Saying Punk is more of a draw than Orton because for 2 months he may have sold more shirts is like saying Lance Berkman is a better hitter than Albert Pujols because he hit better in April and May.

Ziggler....for fuck's sake state facts. You keep saying "Punk is the biggest draw among the male demo" give me PROOF. Don't just say shit. The audience doesn't sound any different than before, it doesn't look any different than before. You live in fuckin Australia, I've actually been to 2 shows this year. Both shows had the same demographics breakdown. One show was before Punk, the other after. At the second show I went to, they were selling CM Punk shirts, they didn't sell out. Sheamus' shirt sold out. Maybe that was because they stocked up a lot more Punk shirts.

I'm not trying to say Punk isn't a draw. I'm saying it's silly to think that he's a bigger draw than Cena. Punk's loudest reactions are when he's with Cena or HHH. Punk vs Miz was quiet and even on SD with HHH it was quiet. He was super hot for about 2 months, that's fantastic. However, draws keep it up, draws draw everywhere, not just in their own backyard.

If people hated Cena so much, they wouldn't watch. You guys wouldn't make a million threads about Cena. You Cena haters wouldn't mention him in EVERY post. Some of you even have Cena in your sig. If you love wrestling so much, and hate Cena so much, wouldn't your sigs/posts be about everything in wrestling BUT Cena?

 

[Alittude]

I don't post my opinion though. I post observations backed up by what's happening. Most people on here it's "Cena is boring" that's an opinion.

It may not have ever been intended for him to get booed, but I think he SHOULD be praised for realizing that they would watch him regardless and probably enjoyed booing him and then worked it. Saying he shouldn't be praised is like saying a hitter who thinks a fastball is coming, gets the changeup, stays back, and blasts it out of the park shouldn't be praised.

To Altitude, no, there are NOT kids wearing the shirt. What show are you watching. No, he does NOT get the loudest chants of the night when he's on the mic, on Smackdown with HHH he didn't get much of a reaction. No he did NOT make wrestling relevant, no one is talking about it now. It was a flash in the pan for about 2 weeks. CM Punk IS a draw, but he's not as much of a draw as people think. What is your basis that Punk sells more merch than Orton? Do you see the sales figures or is it based of what you see? If Punk's shirts are still selling in December, then let me know. Punk had a hot streak. Saying Punk is more of a draw than Orton because for 2 months he may have sold more shirts is like saying Lance Berkman is a better hitter than Albert Pujols because he hit better in April and May.



I'm not trying to say Punk isn't a draw. I'm saying it's silly to think that he's a bigger draw than Cena. Punk's loudest reactions are when he's with Cena or HHH. Punk vs Miz was quiet and even on SD with HHH it was quiet. He was super hot for about 2 months, that's fantastic. However, draws keep it up, draws draw everywhere, not just in their own backyard.

If people hated Cena so much, they wouldn't watch. You guys wouldn't make a million threads about Cena. You Cena haters wouldn't mention him in EVERY post. Some of you even have Cena in your sig. If you love wrestling so much, and hate Cena so much, wouldn't your sigs/posts be about everything in wrestling BUT Cena?

It may not have ever been intended for him to get booed, but I think he SHOULD be praised for realizing that they would watch him regardless and probably enjoyed booing him and then worked it.

Have you even read the thread man? Many people have stated they don't do enjoy him they boo because of various reasons and the are mostly sick of him. There's nothing praise worthy about that. You again say there are not kids but I've seen them wearing them haha stop trying to change my mind about that you fool. It seems like your basing everything off the last Raw and Smackdown and that's it. There is no substance to that. Lets see over the next few weeks what his reactions will be like and I guarantee he will still get many loud ones. His merch was sold out online for a while and it was in every size it and Orton's wasn't so he was more popular in merch for a while and probally still is because I see twice as many Cm Punk shirts in the crowd as Orton's. I'm not saying he's a bigger draw than Cena but I'm saying he has brought in old fans and casuals that had lost interest in the product and that's global. He got media attention and have everyone talking about him and was the single reason some people have been watching Raw everyweek and he is a much hotter topic than Orton is right now and has been for a while. He also obsiouly has been getting the loudest chants of the night for a while now. You're again basing everything off the last two weeks and just ignoring all the times the crowd was loud as shit for him for some reason. He also elevated your beloved Cena to the best he's been in a long long time so I don't know why you go out of your way to put down Punk to the point that you said in another thread that he is only as popular as Del Rio lmao blind bling hate my friend pure ignorance.

 

[RD_21]

If people hated Cena so much, they wouldn't watch. You guys wouldn't make a million threads about Cena. You Cena haters wouldn't mention him in EVERY post. Some of you even have Cena in your sig. If you love wrestling so much, and hate Cena so much, wouldn't your sigs/posts be about everything in wrestling BUT Cena?

I LOVE Spaghetti, but if you start to forced feed me Spaghetti every day/every week I may start to talk about how I hate Spaghetti and I am tired of eating it more than I will say I like to eat hamburger, steak and rice.

Talking about how people WISH thing would change with Cena because they are tired of him and switch the channel doesn't mean that he is succeeding in getting over with us, it just mean WE (a minority, medium portion, majority... I don't care) are tired of him and nothing anyone could say would change that.

I know that logically he is vehiculing great value for our youth (just Like CM Punk always has but he was getting booed for it because adult like alcool), that he is a work horse, that he is the most over since Austin/Rock that this and that.

But hating someone or being tired of seeing someone hugging the spotlight on your tv doesn't rely on rationality it's a gut feeling and something we have no control on. I don't HATE Cena, when he was out with injuries and things like that I would pop when he was back like in the Rumble, I totally loved that finish because we all thought he may miss Mania and BAM there he was number 30.

But after a while he is doing is same act and same routine and I get bored. I usually dvr WWE and watch what interest me and nothing that has Cena on it make it through the fast forward. When the Punk angle was big I started to watch again live and even bought Money in the Bank, but now I am starting to skip through again.

Even if you don't like it and that's not how it should be, I am bored by the current product that I am being offered but it doesn't mean I don't care about it and that I shouldn't voice what's wrong in my opinion and by seeing a lot of the boos Cena is getting it's not 10% or a vocal minority anymore that feels the way I do, so we may not be totally wrong just like you aren't either.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Cena really doesn't work harder than anyone else though. All pro wrestlers work hard. Even Great Khali works hard.

Yes he does. He is more passionate about the WWE than anyone else on the roster and goes out there consistently to entertain the people who hate him nearly every single day. He still makes appearances when he's injured at events like Tribute To the Troops, and then there's all of his Make a Wish accomplishments. Cena did everything he could to get where he is. To ever compare Khali to him is an absolute joke.

I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't respect John Cena.

How about all of the people who always post garbage like "Cena sucks i hate him cuz he won't turn heel and only knows 5 moves"? Then there's the people who always whine about how he's terrible when he's average or better in all categories.

I respect him, but I still dislike the character that he plays. Its not disrespectful to boo him or wear an "I hate Cena" shirt.

There is a difference between disliking a character and hating them. Boo'ing if you dislike him is fine. Wearing a shirt that says you hate him, that's going too far. You don't like his character, I get it. There are more mature ways to go about it. Wear a shirt to support other guys like Orton or Jericho if you like them better.

If you truly believe thats a bad thing to do, then I'm going to have to remind you that wrestling isn't real. Its not immoral to dislike a fake character.

Wrestling's not real? Wow. There is no way that after having watched for 20 somewhat years that I could EVER have figured that out. Oh, and this breaking news has just been reported as well, it turns out that the sky is BLUE. I do believe you mean "predetermined". It isn't fake. What happens in the ring is still real, otherwise people wouldn't end up in the hospital when things go wrong. As for the ethical issue behind disliking a fake character.... When Cena goes out there, he is being himself. He said so in several interviews. Nice try. It is still hatred towards Cena as a person, therefore it is unethical.

I will continue to boo him because its fun and because WWE encourages it. John Cena himself encourages it. Sometimes I wish wrestling fans wouldn't take it so seriously.

You're missing the point. WWE doesn't encourage people to boo Cena. They are trying everything they possibly can to make the haters like him. Cena doesn't encourage it either. The times he has acknowledged it onscreen was to make fun of how dumb some fans are. It's like the "WHAT" chants. They hate it, but are forced to deal with it. They are in no way whatsoever encouraging it.

There's no right way to enjoy wrestling. If everyone liked the same wrestlers, it wouldn't be any fun.

While this is true, it is like I said earlier in my post. There is a difference between disliking a wrestler and legit hatred. Hating someone who is only doing their job is very disrespectful. I dislike Gunner from TNA, for example. There is nothing about his character or in-ring skills that I enjoy. Not a single thing. However, I still respect him for doing his job to the best of his abilities. Cena haters should do the same. Stop wearing the "I hate Cena" shirts, stop whining about his character, and just let the man do his job. Cheer for the guys you like, boo the guys you don't. It's that simple, there is no need to take it any more serious than that because the whole point in the end is to be entertained.

 

[CM_PUNK1995]

Look, the fact is I dont hate Cena but I dont love him either, and by looking at this this thread it looks likes many people hate Cena. Im not going to critisize anyone for hating him or loving him because everybody has their own opinions.

Now to the thread, does Cena get booed because people love to hate him? There's no right or wrong answer to this, some people boo him because they legitimately hate him, some people boo him because they get sick of him, everybody is entitled to their opinions. Also, to the people who post "the only people who cheer CM Punk are smarks", how about you get a life because the fact is when you look in the crowd you see kids and women with CM Punk shirts. The same goes for John Cena, women and children aren't the only fans cheering John Cena. I see middle-aged men wearing John Cena merchandise aswell. The point im trying to make is don't assume a certain demographic likes a certain superstar. Like I alluded to before EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion and don't have a whinge because you disagree.

 

[macho_boy]

nobody is better than cena on the mic!! people boo him coz he liked rap when he rivaled jericho and more people like rock, then it became the kool thing to do to boo him.. just like it is kool to spell kool with a k

 

[ThatGuy99]

I didn't really care too much about Cena, I would watch his matches and I respected the hard work he put outside the ring. But, after Nexus was practically fed to him. Well, i just got fed up with Cena. After that, I really started to dislike the character tremendously and even disliked the person a little.