C.M. Punk Wins The WHC

[TheTruNoLimit]

Honestly, I'm not exactly sure how much I think of CM Punk as a Heavyweight Champion on the Raw brand, since that's what WWE pushes as the "A" show. Punk was champion on the "C" show on ECW and I thought could've made an interesting choice for champion on the "B" show, Smackdown!. But, regardless, it's REFRESHING to see CM Punk as champion because it's NEW.

I am glad that HHH is on Smackdown! because that'll freshen things up, because there was only so many combinations of HHH, Cena, and Orton that I could take at this point.

That being said, Raw is stacked with main eventers, so there's plenty of options for Punk.

Also, I hope this can go a little bit, because I'm tired of the likes of Cena and Batista being in every main event.

As is, I think he's a transitional champion. The money in the bank was used to bring a title to Raw, which was convenient and I think he'll probably lose it at his first PPV defense, whoever he defends against at the Bash.

JBL and Cena have stepped up to challenge Punk. I'm sure WWE will find a way to get Batista involved. If that's the case, Kane should probably be involved since he just lost his title and it seems weird that Kane goes from being champion of a brand, to the next getting involved with Jamie Noble.

Maybe a Fatal 4 Way?

Either way, this is the WWE, and Punk won't last against the likes of Cena.

Punk,as World Champion got to be one of the dumbest things they did.It is not a smart move because he isn't ready to be World Champion.How do you come from winning the ECW Title to winning the World Title?

Come on, that's not entirely fair. If Kane went from being ECW Champion to World Champion would you use the same argument? If the Big Show did it, would you use that argument? Punk being not ready could be a fair argument, but him being not ready has nothing to do with him holding the ECW gold in the past.

 

[Frank the Frowner]

Raw's overrun did a 4.12, which of course was during the main event of Punk vs. JBL. I don't know what the overruns usually are, but I think this is the first time they've even come close to hitting a 4.0 in quite some time. Also, ECW's rating was up this week as well... maybe due to the fact that Punk winning the title has created some interest in the WWE product yet again, as a whole, or maybe they thought Punk would make one last ECW appearance.

If ratings continue on an upward trend, this could mean big things for Punk as far as his reign goes. The WWE has shaken things up big time in the last couple of weeks, and for the first time in forever, I can't wait to watch Raw Monday night. I'm sure a lot of people share my sentiment. Hopefully this is a sign that people are sick of the same programs in the main event, and it's time to start really building stars. They're off to a good start on Raw with Punk and Kofi, at least.

 

[rkolegendkiller007]

Karma is a bitch she is an evil bitch and edge found out the hard way lol i personally think that C.M. Punk will be a fine champion i just hope that they give him a decent regin. and to make a point about it being shocking. my girlfriend who doesnt even really watch wrestling that much was calling me and telling me about it. and then she was telling her co workers about it. so it has people talking. now if the wwe doesnt screw it up . C.M. Punk as the world champion could be a very very good thing.

 

[GeorgeM01]

CM Punk beat edge at his own game lol. He is one of the best athletes the WWE has to offer. I am glad he actually can now be a statistic as one of the World heavyweight champions. and he did it in style lol.

 

[phat_inallthegoodplaces]

i can understand the arguemants against punk stating that he went from ecw champ to WH champ is too much. it does seem that they should of let him try for the mid card titles first. i mean, how do you think wrestlers like jericho (back when he was face) would feel. jericho's had so many titles, but not a shot for wwe or whc in a long time. (i'm actually not entirely sure if he's even had one before...).
on the other hand, i think this is one of the best ideas wwe has had in a long time. punk's got the skill, he just needs a few tweaks. people complaining about his in ring messes, yet batista is 4 time whc. i think they'll let him have a decent run and let him surprise us all by getting a big win on his own over someone like cena or whoever. raw's full of talent now, both young and old. and for some reason, i can't see anyone with a pepsi logo on their arm as a heel...

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Ok with that last response you proved your an Edgehead and you hate CM Punk.

So by this logic you're an Indy Punk fan, and you're running your mouth to defend your hero? Which also means you're too blinded to understand and see how absolutely horrible he is.

Still your arguements are terrible, and you sound like a big fucking cry baby.

And you're now borderline flaming me, all because you can't deal with someone's opinion, all because they dislike Indy Punk? Nice.

Oh, and before you even think it.. I'm fine with people liking Punk, I just disagree with it.. and I'll debate it, which I'm entitled to do. As you're entitled to try and prove my theories wrong. However all I've seen you do thus far is cry that because I'm an Edge fan, that I couldn't possibly have an opinion because its biased.. yet you have Indy Punk plastered all over your profile.. so how can you claim to rebuttal with an opinion that isn't just as biased?

And yes, the thing to do is not watch RAW if you don't like what's going on! Why the fuck do you think they did this?!? No one was watching RAW before. Ratings continued to drop. They'd rise one week, but drop the next 5 weeks. So they needed a change and that's exactly what's going on.

Again, I'm NOT disagreeing with how they pulled out the shock-value storylines. I'm disagreeing with how they felt they had no choice but to put Indy Punk in the Main Event spot. Even if only for a couple weeks, or a month.

My point is, how hard would it have been to place Jeff Hardy, or Mr. Kennedy in that spot? And don't give me that "they're on different brands" crap, because the Championship was on a different brand.. and thus far it hasn't been explained why Punk won a SD title, yet didn't go to SD with it.. like all the other MITB winners had to do.

So clearly, at least for now, no explanation has been made.. which makes it look even worse. It shows that they aren't trying or even wanting to explain proper storylines, they just want to do anything they can to get out of the spot they're in.. by rushing. And what happens when you rush? You FAIL.

And who cares if this was a panic or not on WWE's part. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Everyone isn't expecting Punk to make it past SS with the title. Hell, I was surprised he made it out of RAW with the title. No one is expecting Punk to have a Cena reign.

I just explained that it was rushed, and when you rush you fail, you fall. When you rush it means you don't plan things properly, and you start forgetting to fill gaps. Such as explaining how the title is now on Raw, when in the past every MITB winner never brought the newly won Championship to their brand, but instead they switched brands to where the title was.

All of this just screams "last second panic attack decision."

Furthermore, you.. from what I can tell the biggest Indy Punk fan on this forum.. and the biggest whiner on his behalf, didn't even think he could win the Championship. So why should "I" think he deserves the Championship, when his own loyal fans don't?

Relax dude, this will all be over soon. And you can go back to your bland and boring usual suspects in the Main Event.

This ending quote doesn't even deserve a reply, because you're being idiotic. You're trying to say that W.W.E. is only unique, and "fun" now because Punk won.

The fact is, if Hardy, Kennedy, M.V.P., or even Mysterio could've went out there and won.. it would've been a "what the fuck" type of thing.. and it would've drew an even bigger response from the fans, including me, because all of them.. unlike Indy Punk, deserves the title.

 

[mattg0728]

I like the fact that Punk is champion on RAW, but all the interesting matchups for him are now on SD! Punk-J. Hardy, Punk-Kennedy, Punk-Umaga could all have been great matchups. Now we'll see him vs Cena, JBL and Batista. His style would go well with the current SD! roster. But a Punk vs Mysterio feud could be interesting.

 

[rony31]

Will, you need to relax bud, not the end of the world. plain and simple, Punk cashing in and winning solved a LOT of problems for the WWE:

-Jeff Hardy fucked up, that put the MITB in chaos, nobody seemed to know what to do with Punk, now that's out of the way.
-RAW has a title.
-Paves the way for a Batista heel turn (possibly the first time in history someone's done so just by staring another guy down, like he did to Punk on the ramp).

yes, it came out of nowhere, but they had to do it given the situation. his reign will most likely last no longer than the Great American Bash anyway.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

I like the fact that Punk is champion on RAW, but all the interesting matchups for him are now on SD! Punk-J. Hardy, Punk-Kennedy, Punk-Umaga could all have been great matchups. Now we'll see him vs Cena, JBL and Batista. His style would go well with the current SD! roster. But a Punk vs Mysterio feud could be interesting.

This is exactly what I've been trying to get at. Indy Punk as a Champion over Smackdown would've been believable. Shit, let him keep Edge's World Heavyweight Championship for all I care, just trade him over to Smackdown where outside of Triple H. and the Big Show, Punk has half a chance to get off some half-way decent matches against the likes of Jeff Hardy, Shelton Benjamin, Mr. Kennedy and M.V.P.

Now the only thing thats funny about that.. is this. Within that, Punk against those guys.. its Midcard level matches. Punk and Benjamin, for example.. who'd wanna pay $50.00 for an HD p.p.v., thats headlined by that shit?

So instead however, you'll have John Cena v. Indy Punk. Or Batista, J.B.L., Kane or any of those bigger guys.. against Indy Punk.. again, who'd want to pay $50.00 in HD, to see that p.p.v.? The rest of the card better be so impressive, that it overshadows Punk as Champion.

Infact, I'm gonna go out on a limb right now and say that regardless of Punk's World Championship match for the Great American Bash.. it'll be Triple H. having the bigger title match. Mark my words, whether its against the Big Show, Mr. Kennedy, M.V.P., or even Edge. (I can only hope)

Congrats. Punk is going to allow Raw to open the p.p.v., defending the World Heavyweight Championship.. because whatever match he gets put in, short of being a rematch against Edge, is guaranteed to be nothing above being opening card material. Punk is a card opener.. not a card closer.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Will, you need to relax bud, not the end of the world. plain and simple, Punk cashing in and winning solved a LOT of problems for the WWE:

It didn't solve as many issues as it created though. Thats the irony. Everyone sees this as a problem solving resolution, when in fact is a problem making disaster.

-Jeff Hardy fucked up, that put the MITB in chaos, nobody seemed to know what to do with Punk, now that's out of the way.

Jeff Hardy did indeed screw up, so I'm perfectly fine with him not getting the spot. However you just said it yourself. Noone knew quite what to do with Indy Punk, for the simply reason that he isn't the type of person you can just easily mold and work with.

You can't just slap him anywhere, hes very limited and only capable of so many things. Main Eventing on the "Flagship Show" isn't one of them.

-RAW has a title.

With a huge controvery surrounding it. That is whats pulling in any type of ratings. I guarantee you it isn't the title holder, its the controvery surrounding why the title came to Raw.

Every other MITB holder cashed in and switched brands. They didn't bring the Championship back to their brand with them. Now I'm going to be honest, this would be rather easy to explain if they did so.. but I'm willing to believe they won't.

They could easily say since Edge was on their show, he was vunrable to losing his Championship to their show. However if they don't explain the situation, then it'll just be assumed with a paniced ending.. much like how they completely destroyed the entire Kane storyline.

They wanted the mask off Kane so bad in 2003, but had no clue how to explain the story of why he didn't have scars. So then they came up with some half assed excuse that he wore a wig, and it was all mental. YET, at Summerslam 2000, when Undertaker pulled Kane's mask off.. he had a full head of hair, that covered his face to mask his identity. They never bothered explaining that, or even trying to.. because it was a "gap" in their "flawed and paniced" storyline.

Punk as Champion will be flawed, paniced and end just as horribly as it began.

-Paves the way for a Batista heel turn (possibly the first time in history someone's done so just by staring another guy down, like he did to Punk on the ramp).

Batista could've easily turned heel by siding with Jericho, against Shawn Michaels. Staring an Indy star down on a rampway wasn't a heel turning opportunity.. it was Batista realizing the W.W.E. lost their fucking mind.

I guarantee you he was remembering when The Great Khali won the World Heavyweight title.. thought that this moment was going to be as horrible as that moment.. then remembered HE was the guy who won the title in the end.. so hes likely licking his chops thinking he could be Champion again, very soon.

yes, it came out of nowhere, but they had to do it given the situation. his reign will most likely last no longer than the Great American Bash anyway.

Thats just it.. people are being naive about this. Everyone is saying "They had to do it." Why'd they have to do it? Why with Punk? Because he was holding a Championship case? Because Raw didn't have a Championship?

Are you telling me, Punk was their only answer to righting the wrong they'd done before all the planning of the draft? Then why even draft two World Championships to the same brand?

I'll tell you why. Because they wanted to shock people by making a bold decision, then they realized they didn't have a plan to get the Championship BACK so they had to make another bold decision in letting Indy Punk win a title he'll likely lose within two monthes.

 

[justinsayne]

You all need to stop trying to convince Will that this isn't as bad as he's making it out, he's hell bent on making this out to be one of the worst things to ever happen to WWE, there is no changing his mind, no matter what you say he's gonna come back and try to counter it with some shit, the guy just doesn't like Punk, and will only focus on the negative aspects he see's in this, though I am curious about what he's trying to accomplish by calling him Indy Punk, I mean is it suppose to be an insult?, because honestly it's a pretty lame one, I mean 'Indy Punk'? the guy is the World champion of the largest wrestling promotion in the world, he's pretty far from being 'Indy' at this point, and I'm not sure how calling someone Indy is really suppose to be insulting, seeing as how the vast majority of wrestlers start off in the indies

 

[TheOneBigWill]

You all need to stop trying to convince Will that this isn't as bad as he's making it out, he's hell bent on making this out to be one of the worst things to ever happen to WWE, there is no changing his mind, no matter what you say he's gonna come back and try to counter it with some shit, the guy just doesn't like Punk, and will only focus on the negative aspects he see's in this

While I'm not intentionally out to destroy Indy Punk (more on that in a moment) I'm merely stating my opinion. I really don't mind them arguing with me, it gives me the ability to continue talking. And you know how much I love to talk.

The fact is, I have a point with my opinion. Fans can say this is a good decision, and a great move. I can disagree. Perhaps both of us will be right. Perhaps it'll turn out to help their ratings because of how shocking it'll be.

Perhaps the ratings will go up, because people refuse to believe Punk is good enough to hold the Championship that long which means they'll only start watching more and more, just to see who gets the title next.

That would make both my opinions of people seeing Punk as not worthy and him not being worthy, just as accurate as Punk fans claiming this was a good decision.

though I am curious about what he's trying to accomplish by calling him Indy Punk, I mean is it suppose to be an insult?, because honestly it's a pretty lame one, I mean 'Indy Punk'? the guy is the World champion of the largest wrestling promotion in the world, he's pretty far from being 'Indy' at this point, and I'm not sure how calling someone Indy is really suppose to be insulting, seeing as how the vast majority of wrestlers start off in the indies

As far as the Indy Punk name.. its not meant to be an insult, so much as his calling.. so to speak. Read through this entire thread. Find me one person who had anything good to say about C.M. Punk, that didn't involve them orgasming over his indy wrestling career. (ie. Indy Punk)

While I'm happy that the guy became such a huge name in the minor leagues, and became such a huge star to be noticed and brought up. The fact is, noone is giving me anything hes done note-worthy in the W.W.E. since being brought up.

Winning the E.C.W. Championship? So did Vince McMahon. So apparently it isn't that great of an accomplishment.

Winning Money in the Bank? It was a fluke victory given to him, because the previous assumed winner screwed up and got suspended. And that controvesy will hang over Punk's win forever. Right or wrong, we may never know.

What else has he truly done? Nothing. So Indy Punk's only accomplishments are what he did.. somewhere else, in a barn, or a very small arena that got less or equal numbers to T.N.A. iMPACT! tapings.

By no means am I'm trying to intentionally bad mouth R.O.H. believe me, especially to you.. you're the R.O.H. knowledge book, so thats one debate I'd lose. And while they develop some very major Superstars for the years to come.. sometimes they also develop duds. And Indy Punk hasn't done anything to be remembered for, until now.. and it was mainly presented to him, as a fluke.

Short of Punk suddenly defeating the likes of John Cena, Batista, Kane, Chris Jericho & Shawn Michaels.. he won't be considered a Heavyweight Champion. He'll be considered a lucky little Punk.

 

[John87]

In my opinion about this whole thing, i dont exactly think that they "had" to do it and i think they did this because they knew that yeah, this was the last chance to change the damn show for that night why not make it interesting? i think that Punk carrying RAW is a great idea as opposed to the ones they've had recently like John Cena carrying it for like 2 or 3 years. i mean yeah Punk may not stay champion that long but its better than watching Cena pull some type of bullshxt victory out of his ass and being the champion again for what? so more fans can boo him? I think they did this because he had the briefcase, they needed a world title on their brand (and yes i say that keeping in mind it was all fixed obviously) and why not a fresh face from the draft take the title and Punk just so happened to have that case, and cashed it in. it wouldnt have made sense if like Y2J left his feud with HBK to like capture that title and say Oh ok, now me and Michaels can go back to feuding again. another reason why i think that they did this is because look at the world champs that wwe have had on Raw and SD!. its been a big John Cena and Batista 3 years and while the world title was on SD!, the only guys that could take that title were booker, taker, lashley and maybe even kennedy. hardly a main eventer could hold it and now look at it. Punk gets drafted and gets the world title because i think that they felt that "ok, the world title hardly has as much a prestige on RAW as it did on SD! and now maybe since Punk can hold it, some other up and coming mid carders can finally hold it too" and that also goes for the wwe title being on smackdown. for example, Lesnar, he wasnt even anywhere near the look of a main eventer. he was more of a bodyguard/squasher type like test and tomko and he got the title on smackdown didnt he? do you honestly think he could have won the wwe championship on RAW being that that particular title has the greatest history, greatest prestige while on RAW when there were the likes of Triple H and Shawn Michaels or even Undertaker when he was on RAW. I think that they chose Punk and timed it right to bring over a world championship and with the title swap, the prestige isnt exactly sky rocketing as it was when both had been where they were these last 3 or so years. guys like Carlito couldnt hold the WWE title and shelton and jeff cause it was just weird to them and they probably felt that "oh, well these guys havent broken out of their mid card shells yet lets keep them dreaming about it and capturing the IC title everytime they wipe their asses." and even that hardly ever happened and now that the WWE title is on SD!, its in the right position for guys like carlito and shelton and jeff and even kennedy to get their big break as world champion.

i know this has dragged on so my point is this. they hardly had any main eventers on SD! and on RAW. they just had a large amount of star power on RAW and they had a lot, and i mean a lot of mid card guys like punk and carlito and jeff and others on different brands and i think they were looking at this question "how much longer can they stay this way?" when WWE has developmental guys and gals that want their big break soo bad but the mid carders who have been in that position for years are still there. by doing this, they have created newer or can create newer main eventers in place of older guys like taker, HHH, HBK, and others that may retire one day. As for punk, i think thats why he won that title because had they moved him to RAW, it wouldnt be believeable or such a great sight for an ECW superstar to just jump to RAW and steal the WWE title. no, prestige is too high. and they didnt move him to smackdown so why not swap the world titles and make it a bit more believeable. anyone can go ahead and criticize punk or what i have said but in the end, our opinions dont really matter because i just read here on the site that punk pulls in ratings. so this one month or a few weeks deal people or just that person is talking about, may not be the case. if hes pulling in better ratings than what RAW has been doing these last few weeks, he may end up being the champ til summerslam or longer or until the fans get tired of him like they did with cena.

 

[varney]

ill talk about Punk without bringing up the indies

Punks debut: Had the biggest pop of the night, had a CM Punk chant from the moment he got his named called and we all can't forget the "I PAID TO SEE CM PUNK" sign

Survivor Series: Out popped DX and the Hardys, isnt DX the top stable in WWE History and isnt the Hardys the top tag-team in WWE history...hmmmm

ECW in MSG (Madison Square Garden): Faced Shannon Moore, get's the biggest pop of the night (including SmackDown)

Raw in Chicago: Faced Kenny Dykstra, biggest pop of the night

two of the biggest markets in the world and gets the biggest pop, his first year mind you, out pops the "oh so amazing" HHH in DX

his merchandise is through the roof, he caters to that Attitude Era audience (ala Hammerstein debut pop, MSG pop, Chicago pop; Chicago and NY are the biggest smark cities) we all know what happens to Cena when he visits either (WM 22)

the guy is popular and he caters to us internet fans, he's actually got wrestling talent (even if it hasn't been shown in WWE yet you god damn know he has it) watch Morrison Punk IV when Punk wins the ECW title, tremendous wrestling by Punk, he can sell, and doesnt mind a floor dive or falling outside the ring on his back

did we all forget the match that could of been a start of a fued that could of put punk on the map a year ago, Benoit vs Punk, he caught a real bad break with that

let's see what the guy is made of, this is sink or swim time, don't shit on him till he shits on himself please

 

[Deexter Jorgan]

While I'm not intentionally out to destroy Indy Punk (more on that in a moment) I'm merely stating my opinion. I really don't mind them arguing with me, it gives me the ability to continue talking. And you know how much I love to talk.

The fact is, I have a point with my opinion. Fans can say this is a good decision, and a great move. I can disagree. Perhaps both of us will be right. Perhaps it'll turn out to help their ratings because of how shocking it'll be.

Perhaps the ratings will go up, because people refuse to believe Punk is good enough to hold the Championship that long which means they'll only start watching more and more, just to see who gets the title next.

That would make both my opinions of people seeing Punk as not worthy and him not being worthy, just as accurate as Punk fans claiming this was a good decision.



As far as the Indy Punk name.. its not meant to be an insult, so much as his calling.. so to speak. Read through this entire thread. Find me one person who had anything good to say about C.M. Punk, that didn't involve them orgasming over his indy wrestling career. (ie. Indy Punk)

While I'm happy that the guy became such a huge name in the minor leagues, and became such a huge star to be noticed and brought up. The fact is, noone is giving me anything hes done note-worthy in the W.W.E. since being brought up.

Winning the E.C.W. Championship? So did Vince McMahon. So apparently it isn't that great of an accomplishment.

Winning Money in the Bank? It was a fluke victory given to him, because the previous assumed winner screwed up and got suspended. And that controvesy will hang over Punk's win forever. Right or wrong, we may never know.

What else has he truly done? Nothing. So Indy Punk's only accomplishments are what he did.. somewhere else, in a barn, or a very small arena that got less or equal numbers to T.N.A. iMPACT! tapings.

By no means am I'm trying to intentionally bad mouth R.O.H. believe me, especially to you.. you're the R.O.H. knowledge book, so thats one debate I'd lose. And while they develop some very major Superstars for the years to come.. sometimes they also develop duds. And Indy Punk hasn't done anything to be remembered for, until now.. and it was mainly presented to him, as a fluke.

Short of Punk suddenly defeating the likes of John Cena, Batista, Kane, Chris Jericho & Shawn Michaels.. he won't be considered a Heavyweight Champion. He'll be considered a lucky little Punk.

I got one thing that will change your mind, Paul Heymen recently wrote in the Sun that Edge made Punk the babyface champion that he is, so in a way Edge having sumpremly hot heel heat right now is good for creating new stars like Punk, so why not keep that in mind before you go on a huge rant on why this is bad

Also on another wrestling site it states that Punk is going for a bret hart test run, the WWE will see how well the ratings climb and the fans get behind his reign before they pull the plug, so why not see how it goes before you call the reign a complete flop will

Come on join us

 

[The Champ is here]

I don't give a Damn about no got damn indy Punk Wut I care about is World Heavyweight Champion C.M. Punk ........C.M. Punk might of just saved the wwe for the summer. We were all tired of the same Storyline angles featuring the same superstars over again since SummerSlam 07, but now we got new faces new champs and it's time for the the WWE to be must see t.v. again. However, i do believe that C.M. punk needs to use his submission move as his finisher not the GTS.......but what the hell, it is the WWE afterall.

I just wish to see superstars like Matt and jeff hardy, Big daddy V, Hardcore holly just to name of few....they should of gotten the Championship earlier before C.M. punk did.

C.M.Punk vs Rey Mysterio- Summerslam of 08 -Rey wins, Rey wins, Rey wins,-

Oh yeah!.......I hated with a passion the New World tag Team champions.

 

[Golden Standard]

CM Punk will make a good transitional champion. I mean he brings freshness to the mainevent scene so he being world champ is not that bad of an idea really. And i think he will hold the title proud. I don't see him doing no wrong. I mean he may not have the best wrestling skills, but he is okay on the mic and is over with the fans so he will be a crediable champion.

 

[Shocky]

Winning the E.C.W. Championship? So did Vince McMahon. So apparently it isn't that great of an accomplishment.

Winning Money in the Bank? It was a fluke victory given to him, because the previous assumed winner screwed up and got suspended. And that controvesy will hang over Punk's win forever. Right or wrong, we may never know.


Short of Punk suddenly defeating the likes of John Cena, Batista, Kane, Chris Jericho & Shawn Michaels.. he won't be considered a Heavyweight Champion. He'll be considered a lucky little Punk.

Vince McMahon also won the WWE championship, so now all of a sudden are we throwing out the credibility of that title as well? Also, I seem to remember David Arquette holdnig onto the big Gold Belt at one time as well (don't give me it's not the same belt crap, because it is). The point is, every championship has had it's fair share of crap wrestlers. So to discredit Punks ECW title reign due to the "lineage" of the belt is a crap stance in my opinion.

MITB: Sure, it may have been a fluke, but let's thanks Jeff Hardy for beign the monumental fuck up that he is. And anyways, how is anyone so sure that Jeff Hardy was scheduled to win that match anyway? We are all assuming because Hardy was the most over guy in the match that he was going to win, but we don't know with 100% certainty that he was supposed to win. for all we know, this was the original plan all along. Plus, this is a pretty weak argument coming from John Morrison's biggest supporter, where we all realize that he was the one that lucked into his title reign, hell at least Punk was originally scheduled in the match that he won.

The fact is still, that the WWE has decided to push someone new, and you don't like him is what it comes down to. I've been around long enough to realize that this is the same reaction most new guys get as champion. When the WWE made the Rock a champion in 1998, most were pissed (because the Rock sucked in 1998 and wasn't ready), Triple H was seen as a mistake (because he was a terrible choice for champion) in 1999, Chris Jericho, and on and on and on. You have to let the title reign play out, and look at it in hindsight to determine it was a success (John Cena) or not (Shawn Michaels or Triple H).

 

[gnr_801]

Winning Money in the Bank? It was a fluke victory given to him, because the previous assumed winner screwed up and got suspended. And that controvesy will hang over Punk's win forever. Right or wrong, we may never know.

there's no "fluke's" in wrestling. it either happens or not. CM Punk is the champion by his own merits. Ratings prove that he can carry the show (4.2 for his first title defense). And "big will", Edge being champion on SD! didnt help ratings at all, in fact ratings went down after his championship win.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

there's no "fluke's" in wrestling. it either happens or not.

Tell that to everyone still scratching their heads at the David Arquette - W.C.W. World Heavyweight Championship reign.

The fact is, Indy Punk fell into the position he got. He has talent and I won't discredit him for the talent he holds. But the thing of it is, he doesn't hold "Main Event" level talent. He holds midcard talent. Hes the guy you'll wanna watch open a show to attempt getting you fired up, which he doesn't do a good job at. Hes the type of guy that works his ass off, trying to learn more and more all the time, whch he also doesn't do a good job at.

But hes definately NOT World Heavyweight Championship material. And this if anything will come to prove that. The term "transitional Champion" has never had more meaning.

CM Punk is the champion by his own merits.

Merits? You act as if Indy Punk literally earned his spot. As if the guy went through the roster, defeated the big names, earned his place due to his hard work through winning.

NO, who has he beaten? Outside of a mainly broken Edge, in which he couldn't defeat a while back on Smackdown in a regular match-up.. who has Indy Punk ever defeated, in the W.W.E., thats proved hes a legit. World Champion contender?

Indy Punk won the Championship in fluke fashion, due to lack of options and lack of creative thinking.

Ratings prove that he can carry the show (4.2 for his first title defense).

Then John Morrison would be HUGE as Raw World Heavyweight Champion, because Morrison pulled in a lot higher ratings than Punk.. and the ratings dropped when Punk became Champion and Morrison left the title picture.

The fact is, ratings increased because.. shocker, shocker.. a Heavyweight Championship switched hands. People tuned in after hearing word of mouth, to see if it was true. People stayed tuned in, because EVERYONE likely believed the Championship was about to change hands twice in one night, since Indy Punk isn't believable as a World Heavyweight Champion.

Give Raw two more weeks worth of ratings. Assuming Indy Punk keeps his Championship that long, I promise you when people realize this is for real and he won't be losing very soon, or on Raw.. the ratings will drop even lower.

The ratings went up due to a shock-value storyline unfolding and someone cashing in the MITB case. Nothing to do with Punk, other than being very lucky at being in the right place, at the right time.

And "big will", Edge being champion on SD! didnt help ratings at all, in fact ratings went down after his championship win.

Go read Paul Heyman's latest article in which he explains the situation regarding Edge and who he is to this business. Then come talk to me about how Edge wasn't a proper or ratings grabbing World Champion.

On average, one person doesn't collectively give you ratings. It takes the whole show to work properly. The greatest thing Smackdown had, and continues to have.. is Edge, the W.W.E.'s number one heel.

Edge single handedly, if nothing else, MADE Indy Punk, on Raw. Edge, being half way unconscious, still delivered in a 5 star performance against Indy Punk and as a result of their "match" created any type of status Punk now has.

 

[Deexter Jorgan]

Credit Joey Styles and WWE.COM

"Congratulations to the New World Heavyweight Champion, CM Punk. I felt a personal connection with Steve Austin and Mick Foley when the won the WWE Championship because I had seen them break out in ECW before chasing the brass ring in WWE.

However, having followed CM Punk's career through the indies and internationally before calling his WWE ECW debut in New York City, I had goosebumps Monday night watching Punk achieve his lifelong dream and almost felt like I had won the title with him.

I spent the rest of Monday evening hanging out with the new World Heavyweight Champion, clad in his trademark baggy jeans, dirty Cubs cap and worn T-shirt, knowing that this young man will not be affected in any way by his newly earned success. Punk will always be Punk. He's not just a character you see on television. Punk is genuinely that grounded person all day, every day which is why I believe our fans, specifically our younger fans flock to him. Hopefully, his message of drug free hard work will resonate with those youngsters as well. In fact, drug-free hard work is a message that will hopefully resonate with all Americans on Independence Day...and every day."

I dont think he single handedly made punk, punk did a hell of a job himself, but Edge did bring him to the leve he is at and thats what a good heel should do make faces, thats what some main event talent doesnt do, remember tista HHH feud it did the same thing, now all i will say is this, Punk busted his ass and got where he needed to be and as far as im concerned garnered ratings and this time around no one can hold him down

 

[TheOneBigWill]

First, what exactly are you trying to prove by posting an article written by a W.W.E. personality? Wouldn't that be just as biased and one sided as asking Vince McMahon whether he prefered watching W.W.E. programming or T.N.A. programming?

Of course any article written by the W.W.E. reps are going to make this look like a great thing. (unless hes heel, then they'll sell it being great in a opportunistic way, through bad tactics)

I dont think he single handedly made punk, punk did a hell of a job himself, but Edge did bring him to the leve he is at and thats what a good heel should do make faces, thats what some main event talent doesnt do

I seriously hope you're kidding. I mean, to say Indy Punk had any part in making what he became on Raw is absurd. Edge was laid out flat by Batista. Punk had to work hard in just walking to the ring and selling cashing in a case. Edge completely made Punk, by playing dead.

The fans would've never cheered for Punk winning the title, had each and every one of them (more or less) practically wanted to see Edge drop the Championship in general.

As the Heyman article says, Edge is such a great heel.. people want to see him get the shit beat out of him. Then, because of how great he plays his role, people will never be satisfied with seeing it happen just once, they want to see it happen again and again.

Edge made Indy Punk, by doing nothing more than cutting a heel promo on Jim Ross, in Oklahoma. Then getting the shit beat out of him, without laying in one offensive move on Batista in return. As a result, Indy Punk cashes in, and the fans go wild.. not because Punk won, but because Edge lost.. everything.

remember tista HHH feud it did the same thing

The difference is talent and look. Batista might not have the complete skill level and talent that Indy Punk carries, but Batista has a much greater, Main Event look.

And Batista carried the roars of the crowd with him. Punk got NO reaction when he came out. The only reaction he got, was when people noticed Edge lost the World Championship. Half the people in attendance wouldn't even recall the night in saying "Punk won." They'll recall the night in saying "Edge lost."

now all i will say is this, Punk busted his ass and got where he needed to beand as far as im concerned garnered ratings

Incorrect theory, in my opinion. Punk didn't bust shit to fall into the Money in the Bank spot that wasn't his to begin with. Punk didn't defeat anyone to become known as a credible challenger. All he did, was cash in at the right time.

The MITB case isn't something thats meant to make you look like you busted your ass to gain what you get. Its always been used to look like an easy route to victory. Edge, on both occasions did exactly what Punk did.. and was criticized for it because he was a heel. So how did Punk bust his ass, yet Edge didn't?

R.V.D. cashed in and let his opponent know a month ahead of time when, where and how it was going down.. yet it was still viewed as one sided because of the elements involved. So please don't sit there and try and pawn off to me that Punk worked his ass off to become World Champion, when it was merely something that was handed to him.

As far as ratings go. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. Indy Punk was not the result of the ratings. The storyline in which he played a major role in, was. Edge was the highest rated World Heavyweight Champion when he won in a long time.. was it entirely because hes that incredibly good?

While I'd love to say yes, the fact is at that time.. not really. It was because the Championship switched, when noone seen it coming.

and this time around no one can hold him down

Except maybe himself? And his average style, skills and talent? I suppose we'll see.

 

[triplesic]

To: TheOneBigWill

You have such a pessimistic view of what happens behind the scenes.

Even if it's true that Jeff Hardy was suppose to win MITB, here's a list of other guys that could have been given the win
• Chris Jericho
• Shelton Benjamin
• John Morrison
• Carlito
• MVP
• Mr. Kennedy

Why not let one of those guys win?
I know you like to believe the backstage rumors that Punk is in the doghouse.
But honestly If they didn't think he deserved it they would have given it to someone else.
Jesus Jericho wold have been the easy choice. How about Kennedy, he won last year only to get injured.

And you sound like a guy who's always gonna complain about what's happening. There's always going to be someone else who deserves it more then the one who's on top.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

To: TheOneBigWill

I love my fans.

You have such a pessimistic view of what happens behind the scenes.

Well that wasn't very nice. What tipped you off? The depressing Avatar, or the quote that went with it? And I don't always look down upon things. Just things I don't like.

Even if it's true that Jeff Hardy was suppose to win MITB, here's a list of other guys that could have been given the win

I'm about to pick about your list and agree with you 100% that its likely that any of them could've been World Champion before Indy Punk. Just letting you know ahead of time.

• Chris Jericho

100% agree. Chris Jericho is a former first-ever Undisputed Champion and would have been an easy choice to become World Heavyweight Champion on Raw. Especially since hes arguably becoming their biggest heel.

The only flaw. How would you get the World Heavyweight Championship off of Edge (The Biggest Heel) onto Jericho? (also heel)

• Shelton Benjamin

While Shelton Benjamin has way more talent than Indy Punk, and is honestly a lot more enjoyable to watch. Sadly, I have to say Indy Punk would be the better choice because at least Punk has more of a personality.

And to be a World Champion, you need personality more than ability and skills. (Otherwise noone could explain Khali's reign)

• John Morrison

I FRICKEN WISH! Seriously, if there could've been one guy from the younger talent I wish more than anything it could've been John Morrison.

To me, in my personal opinion, John Morrison is more exciting to watch, has more charisma, has more character, has better mic skills and is by leaps and bounds way more talented in every way imaginable.

However, once again you run into the factor of how to take the title off a heel, to place it on a heel. And while I love Morrison to death, he needs to find a gimmick and settle. John Morrison is a great name, but the gimmick in which its for.. honestly doesn't strike me as World Championship material.

• Carlito

Are you mildly ******ed?

Carlito is in the so-called "doghouse" if there ever was one. The guy complains about the W.W.E. more than "I" complain about Punk being Champion. No way will Carlito be getting close to any type of Championship.. except to be squashed by the reigning Champion.

• MVP

A perfect alternative. M.V.P. has a lot better charisma, character, mic skills, gimmick, in-ring talent and overall ability. Why this didn't happen is beyond me.

They even had the perfect segway to give the title to M.V.P., from Edge. Its been building for a while now, that M.V.P. is unhappy with how Edge & Vickie Guerrero are running things. So logically, it'd be perfect for M.V.P. to have taken the World Heavyweight title from Edge, then jump to Raw.

• Mr. Kennedy

Another perfect alternative for all the same reasons as listed for M.V.P.. add on top of that, that Kennedy has been receiving a mild-to-massive push since his return, and could've truly carried the Raw brand as their World Heavyweight Champion.

The storyline, much like M.V.P., was also set in place for Kennedy to defeat Edge. Kennedy could've taken the MITB case from Punk, only to cash in against Edge and do to Edge, what Kennedy should've done last year that Edge more or less stole from Kennedy.

Why not let one of those guys win?

Do you see me (outside of Carlito & partly Benjamin) disagreeing with any of those choices over Indy Punk? No.

Again, my biggest argument is Punk was massively undeserving. I could've carried less that Edge lost the World Heavyweight Championship. I loved how he did lose it, as it didn't hurt him, if anything it made him look like such an undefeatable World Champion, that the only way he could be defeated is by someone using his own tactics against him.

I'm ONLY against Indy Punk becoming World Heavyweight Champion, because hes done NOTHING to deserve it.

I know you like to believe the backstage rumors that Punk is in the doghouse.

I have no clue what you're yammering about. I could care less about Punk's backstage popularity. Obviously he wouldn't be in some so-called "doghouse" if they just placed the World Championship on him. If thats true, then maybe there is a method to Carlito's maddness.

I merely dislike Punk because hes average, at best, and doesn't strike me in any way, shape, or form.. as a Heavyweight contender.

But honestly If they didn't think he deserved it they would have given it to someone else.

So by that logic, did David Arquette deserve and earn the W.C.W. World Heavyweight Championship? Did Santino Marella deserve the Intercontinental Championship?

NO, the answer is NO. They give Championships to those they either want to make a photoshoot out of. (Arquette) Or those they'd like to attempt building, regardless of them deserving it. (Santino)

Punk's victory will never be anything more to me, than a panic attack in order to get a Heavyweight Championship to Raw. Because in trying to grab ratings from the draft, they forgot how to properly plan a better storyline on getting a Heavyweight title back to Raw.

Jesus Jericho wold have been the easy choice. How about Kennedy, he won last year only to get injured.

Why not either? I'm not, nor have I ever disagreed.

And you sound like a guy who's always gonna complain about what's happening. There's always going to be someone else who deserves it more then the one who's on top.

I think its law of nature to understand once you're on top, the only place to go from there is down. So naturally any Champion will be good for a while, but sooner or later someone will come along and always be better.

The shear fact that you bunch of Punk Bastards (my new name for Punk fans) group together and say Punk is more deserving because this is refreshing is absurd. Just hot potato the Championship through the midcard why don't you.

Lance Cade could've won it. Kofi Kingston could've won it. Cody fricken Rhodes, I'd of agreed with that a lot more if Cody would've won it.

 

[triplesic]

I love my fans.

you may have just lost a fan in record time

100% agree. Chris Jericho is a former first-ever Undisputed Champion and would have been an easy choice to become World Heavyweight Champion on Raw. Especially since hes arguably becoming their biggest heel.

The only flaw. How would you get the World Heavyweight Championship off of Edge (The Biggest Heel) onto Jericho? (also heel)

Well when jericho was in the MITB he wasn't a heel yet, sooo they could have given it to him.

While Shelton Benjamin has way more talent than Indy Punk, and is honestly a lot more enjoyable to watch. Sadly, I have to say Indy Punk would be the better choice because at least Punk has more of a personality.

And to be a World Champion, you need personality more than ability and skills. (Otherwise noone could explain Khali's reign)

All true

I FRICKEN WISH! Seriously, if there could've been one guy from the younger talent I wish more than anything it could've been John Morrison.

To me, in my personal opinion, John Morrison is more exciting to watch, has more charisma, has more character, has better mic skills and is by leaps and bounds way more talented in every way imaginable.

However, once again you run into the factor of how to take the title off a heel, to place it on a heel. And while I love Morrison to death, he needs to find a gimmick and settle. John Morrison is a great name, but the gimmick in which its for.. honestly doesn't strike me as World Championship material.

I would quite literally shoot my brains out if John Morrison became world champion.
when he was ECW champ doing promo's, the words he was saying worked (except that palace of wisdom crap) but his delivery was bad, he sounded like he didn't even believe he should be champ. Maybe in 4 or 5 years and a gimmick change.

Are you mildly ******ed?

Now that's actually pretty rude

Carlito is in the so-called "doghouse" if there ever was one. The guy complains about the W.W.E. more than "I" complain about Punk being Champion. No way will Carlito be getting close to any type of Championship.. except to be squashed by the reigning Champion.

I was just listing the other participants in the MITB match

A perfect alternative. M.V.P. has a lot better charisma, character, mic skills, gimmick, in-ring talent and overall ability. Why this didn't happen is beyond me.

They even had the perfect segway to give the title to M.V.P., from Edge. Its been building for a while now, that M.V.P. is unhappy with how Edge & Vickie Guerrero are running things. So logically, it'd be perfect for M.V.P. to have taken the World Heavyweight title from Edge, then jump to Raw.

Sure but I think he needs to be put in a few more high profile matches first

Another perfect alternative for all the same reasons as listed for M.V.P.. add on top of that, that Kennedy has been receiving a mild-to-massive push since his return, and could've truly carried the Raw brand as their World Heavyweight Champion.

The storyline, much like M.V.P., was also set in place for Kennedy to defeat Edge. Kennedy could've taken the MITB case from Punk, only to cash in against Edge and do to Edge, what Kennedy should've done last year that Edge more or less stole from Kennedy.

He's gonna be huge one day

Do you see me (outside of Carlito & partly Benjamin) disagreeing with any of those choices over Indy Punk? No.

Again, my biggest argument is Punk was massively undeserving. I could've carried less that Edge lost the World Heavyweight Championship. I loved how he did lose it, as it didn't hurt him, if anything it made him look like such an undefeatable World Champion, that the only way he could be defeated is by someone using his own tactics against him.

I'm ONLY against Indy Punk becoming World Heavyweight Champion, because hes done NOTHING to deserve it.

I don't think it's his fault that he, as you say, "done nothing" to deserve it.
I think WWE has missed a lot of opportunities with him.
He should have won the ECW title at December to remember instead of lashley. He was getting some pretty good fan support at the time.

I have no clue what you're yammering about. I could care less about Punk's backstage popularity. Obviously he wouldn't be in some so-called "doghouse" if they just placed the World Championship on him. If thats true, then maybe there is a method to Carlito's maddness.

I merely dislike Punk because hes average, at best, and doesn't strike me in any way, shape, or form.. as a Heavyweight contender.

There's been a lot of rumors about his attitude backstage but I don't believe it either

So by that logic, did David Arquette deserve and earn the W.C.W. World Heavyweight Championship? Did Santino Marella deserve the Intercontinental Championship?

Don't get me started on the shit WCW was pulling back then, that's a whole other can of worms. And Santino won the IC title that's a completely different standard. and the angle that he won it with worked. They didn't sell him as anything more then he was either, so that was fine with me.

NO, the answer is NO. They give Championships to those they either want to make a photoshoot out of. (Arquette) Or those they'd like to attempt building, regardless of them deserving it. (Santino)

First part is true for WCW. second part is true for any midcard title.

Punk's victory will never be anything more to me, than a panic attack in order to get a Heavyweight Championship to Raw. Because in trying to grab ratings from the draft, they forgot how to properly plan a better storyline on getting a Heavyweight title back to Raw.

I wouldn't call it a panic attack to get the belt back on Raw. they could have figured something out to put it on someone that would have been a more established , but then would have assuredly got heat from the internet fans as the same old same old.
I think giving it to Punk 1.) had a built in story already there MITB
2.) I really think they want to try something new.

The shear fact that you bunch of Punk Bastards (my new name for Punk fans) group together and say Punk is more deserving because this is refreshing is absurd. Just hot potato the Championship through the midcard why don't you.

yes you're very clever....just kidding.

I don't necessarily think he's more deserving then everybody else, but he did have the MITB and to be honest I think that's why they have the stupid briefcase. Every time except for once they've used it in the same surprise fashion.
It's how MITB works.

Lance Cade could've won it. Kofi Kingston could've won it. Cody fricken Rhodes, I'd of agreed with that a lot more if Cody would've won it.

Now you're really kidding.....right? you'd have to be.

You can't honestly think those three guys have done more to deserve a world title then CM Punk. I'm not knocking any of them but come on.

But you do know, the day that Lance Cade wins a world title, there will be a thread on here full of people saying he doesn't deserve it.