Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
>Why the fuck does IDR put those stupid icons in his thread titles?
>IDR put those stupid icons
>IDR stupid icons
>IDR stupid
Because it needs to be said
- Thread starter It's Damn Real!
- Start date
>Why the fuck does IDR put those stupid icons in his thread titles?
>IDR put those stupid icons
>IDR stupid icons
>IDR stupid
Uncle Chester
I see you, and your penis.
Death Metal music implies violence, negativity and extreme anger and much of the time it not only implies it but expresses it.
I watch 'inhumane' movies to trigger synthetic emotions, not real ones. Watching something cruel and knowing beforehand it's completely artificial replicates the real emotions associated with reality, not the original feelings themselve. These synthetic emotiosn never affect me as a person or my mental figure and I would say most people who enjoy the movies you described don't get a sadistic pleasure or urge to duplicate but entertainment will full awareness of it's fakeness.
I watch 'inhumane' movies to trigger synthetic emotions, not real ones. Watching something cruel and knowing beforehand it's completely artificial replicates the real emotions associated with reality, not the original feelings themselve. These synthetic emotiosn never affect me as a person or my mental figure and I would say most people who enjoy the movies you described don't get a sadistic pleasure or urge to duplicate but entertainment will full awareness of it's fakeness.
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
See below.
So Faces of Death is art? Video footage of real animals/humans being tortured and brutally dismembered and killed/murdered is art?
Guy, I suggest you go back and read what this thread is about, because it's not violent video games or "slasher" films. It's about OVERT, ULTRA violence. I'm not railing Friday the 13th here — I'm railing Faces of Death, a movie about REAL death. Please do not confuse the two. I've commented on implied violence, which may have brought you to that point, but believe me, the implied violence I'm referring to is not Chucky — it's the detailed recording of watching a man get every limb of his body cut off with a rusty knife while the killer eats chunks of his flesh.
Yeah, that makes sense. Again READ the first post. I already apologized (numerous times, in fact) if people took offense to this. I just felt it needed to be said.
Frankly, I can't stand when users like you join these discussions hours after they've started. You just derail the topic into these annoying little side-tracked arguments that have little-to-nothing to do with the OP.
Because it pisses you and Lee off.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
if that is the true reason, then please never stop doing it
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
By the way, Roche, I actually thought your handle said Roach. You still haven't learned to have a discussion without using childish insults to convey your point, so I'm not going to dignify your posts with responses, but I just thought I'd clear the air that I wasn't trying to be clever by calling you Roach.
Careless mistake on my part.
Careless mistake on my part.
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
And I will just continue to assume that you're making excuses because you have no argument. I think you're enough of a big boy to handle the word "fuck," but you just don't want to because you're getting slaughtered from every direction.
Just because my arguments are garnished with the occasional insult doesn't mean my arguments aren't there. Grow up.
Okay, WOW, first off you actually think the Faces of Death series is real? Are you twelve? The Faces of Death series has been confirmed to be utterly fake a thousand times since it's inception, and if you took five seconds to use Google, you'd know that. Fuck it's blatantly obvious just watching the series.
Secondly, yes, technically Faces of Death falls under the definition of art. It may be crass, disgusting, and worthless in your eyes, but it's still art by definition. It's a creative creation made by someone. It's art.
Again, Faces of Death is as fake as pro wrestling. This has been public knowledge for over twenty years.
Secondly, footage of REAL death would be documentary footage, no different from war-time correspondents filming real battles or photographing dead soldiers. It's journalism. But, as I said, Faces of Death is fake as fuck.
Are you just upset that I destroyed your shitty argument in less than 20 seconds without putting forth much effort into it? You have no argument. Something personally offends you, and you're basically trying to force that same opinion on everyone else. Don't pretend you aren't because that's what you've spent this entire thread doing, arguing with Mozz and others.
I'm seriously just loling my face off that you actually think Faces of Death is real. Too funny.
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
I really need to find a better way to make general statements, because it seems any time I use one example to use as a means to draw a correlation to a category/topic, you only focus on the sole example I've provided.
But hey, to take a page out of your book and choose only to attack a single point of a larger argument, if you think war-time footage is the same as recorded footage of legitimate torture that's subsequently glorified, we have nothing more to discuss here.
But hey, to take a page out of your book and choose only to attack a single point of a larger argument, if you think war-time footage is the same as recorded footage of legitimate torture that's subsequently glorified, we have nothing more to discuss here.
Because Faces of Death is the only example you've given me. What other examples am I supposed to use, when you've only provided one? Am I supposed to read your mind now too to get other examples of what you're talking about? How about actually providing other examples? My mind-reading isn't up to shape these days.
I've addressed every single point you've made to me, so I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that I'm only attacking a single point of yours. Please show me an example of a film of legitimate torture being sold as entertainment IDR. Because otherwise, what the fuck are you arguing about? Where are these films of legit torture being glorified and sold as entertainment? Give me some examples, I'll wait.
You started this entire thread based off of disgust at some of the films people were describing in the gorey film threads in the Zonies section, correct? Well none of those films talked about feature REAL LEGITIMATE torture. It's all special effects and make-up work. It's fake. No one is jerking off to real torture tapes that are being sold as genuine films.
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
No, you're supposed to read this thread, like I've asked you to do twice now. Remember that line about you jumping into the discussion late and side-tracking it? Living, breathing proof, right here.
Real animals killed in Cannibal Holocaust. Go ahead tell me it's art.
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
X, you're wasting your intelligence here. IDR is the supreme end-all-be-all on what is considered "art," (even though it's completely subjective), and he will just eventually make some excuse to stop responding to you, after you destroy everything he says, word-by-word.
How am I side-tracking this discussion? By immediately disqualifying one of your examples that you keep using again and again by informing you that it's completely fake and staged?
The film is art, regardless of whether real animals were killed in it's making or not. I personally hate the film and have always felt that the killing of real animals in it's creation was despicable, but that doesn't change the fact that by definition the film is art. You can choose to think it's disgusting, immoral, crass, or flat out badly made art, but it's still art by definition. Do I need to start quoting dictionaries now to prove this to you? You can't argue the definition of a word IDR, it's not up for discussion, it's a cold hard fact. Filmmaking is art, by definition.
Furthermore, there's nothing "wrong" with anyone if they choose to watch a film like Cannibal Holocaust. The fact that you're arguing there is something wrong with a person to watch that is unbelievably presumptive, arrogant, and closed-minded.
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
And this is why you are ignored. You're too concerned with "winning" than you are with having an objective discussion.
Go back to your toys, child.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibal_Holocaust
ScreaminNormanSmiley
formerly ScreaminNormanSmiley
I don't think you understand what ignoring is.
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
I'm not concerned with "winning" anything. I am, however, concerned with how you're drawing your conclusions, because you haven't come up with one single legitimate argument in this entire thread. I'm simply trying to goad you into continuing the discussion, because really, it's not just me -- everyone knows what you're trying to do. You've zeroed in on an insignificant, irrelevant part of my post and made some excuse as to why you refuse to continue, because you're getting demolished by multiple people in this thread.
It's only a matter of time before you do it to X to, and you'll just give up, pretend that everybody else is wrong and/or crazy, exclaim, "This is why I never come into the cage," and fuck off back to your horrible section.
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
By turning this argument into a side-tracked conversation over the definition of art and not what the OP indicated, which was that these films are appalling and so too the idea that anyone would want to see them.
If you are arguing that some choose to watch because they view it as art, fine, but I refuse to believe that the existence of these "films" is based purely on creating "art".
No, the film is documented killing, masquerading as "art" once real animals were killed. There's nothing "artistic" about murder or killing. Nothing. Not real murder or killing, that is. Art is creation. Murder/killing is destruction. They are polar opposites.
I disagree. I think anyone who finds anything entertaining about watching innocent animals (real animals in Cannibal Holocaust, mind you) slaughtered or human beings butchered (real or fake) has serious mental issues, presumptive, arrogant and close-minded as that may be to you.
Goliath Uterus
Getting Noticed By Management
Jesus you're a pussy
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
This is still happening?
YOU'RE the one arguing that it isn't art. You're trying to argue definitively that a film depicting real violence to animals briefly isn't art. Not that it's not art in your opinion, but that it flat out 100% factually cannot be defined as art. You are wrong. Take five minutes to Google the definition of art and you'll see this.
That's fine and dandy. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Why the fuck are you arguing with OTHER people about THEIR opinions on it? Stop trying to make others feel bad because they don't agree with your opinion, it's childish.
Have you even seen the fucking film? Because the animal killing takes up maybe 20 seconds of the entire 90 minute film. It's not some major plot point or something, it takes up less screen time than the opening credits do. It's despicable, yes, but it doesn't disprove the validity of the film as art. 20 seconds of a film doesn't discount the other 89 minutes and 40 seconds.
Oh look, you're flip-flopping now. A few posts back you said that you WEREN'T arguing that there's something wrong with a person for watching staged violence in a film, similar to Friday the 13th franchise which you brought up. Now you ARE arguing that there's something wrong with someone for watching staged violence in a film? Well which is it IDR? Stop changing your tune.
And it's not presumptive and closed minded to me, it's by definition (there's that D word again) presumptive and closed minded. You're judging MILLIONS of people entirely on the basis of whether or not they enjoy watching a violent film. That's the textbook definition of being presumptuous.
Is there even a point to this thread IDR? I mean, aside from judging people unfairly and standing on a soap box, yelling about morals?
You know who you sound like right now?
^^^
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
No, I'm arguing personally that it's not art, because it's not. As I already noted, art is creation, not destruction. Murder/killing is destruction, hence, murder/killing is not art.
Absolutely not, and had you read this thread like I've repeatedly asked you to do, you'd have seen already that I already acknowledged the fact that I'm giving up ground by not. I don't have the stomach to watch things like this, which is the purpose of this thread to begin with. That doesn't change the fact that killing/murder is not art (to me, happy?). It's vile, disgusting, and against the law. But hey, maybe if it were human children being slaughtered for 20 seconds of the 90-minute film, you'd change your tune, or is it OK to still call it art when it's human lives on the line?
Good god, son — here we go again with you not being capable of accepting generalized statements, and only being capable of answering the most direct representations given to characterize them.
How many times have I said I am talking about OVERT and ULTRA violence? How many times? READ MY FUCKING POSTS please? READ being the keyword there? I know how you have a bad habit of SELECTIVELY reading, but for the sake of this argument, read the entirety of them before you respond to the next one lest you end up like Roche in this argument.
Secondly, if you're going to go the same route as he did with this childish nonsense in trying to "win" this, don't even bother responding again, because I won't bother responding to your posts here either. I have no desire to get into some juvenile dick-swinging contest with you or any other immature user on this forum.
Why don't you actually read it and find out instead of continuing to argue against only what you've read on the last page or two?
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
I don't even really think IDR even knows what he's trying to argue anymore, so he's just going to garnish everything he says with, "OMG YOU ARE NOT READING MY POSTS. READ IT. READ THE THREAD. I AM REPEATING MYSELF," to disguise the fact that there is an incredible lack of logic coming from his posts.
Jay Sherman
Jay Sherman Mark.
I miss Macho Man 
This thread is going to be going awhile I can tell... Well anybody could.
Roche that is an amazing signature.
This thread is going to be going awhile I can tell... Well anybody could.
Roche that is an amazing signature.
Okay first things first, I went back and read every single post in this thread IDR, so you can stop telling me to "read the entire thread" as if that's suddenly going to make me agree with you. Nothing in any of your posts in this thread changes any point I've made.
If you really want to get technical actually IDR, destruction is a form of creation. You're creating nothingness out of something. You're changing it's physiological existence. Technically, destruction is a form of creation.
BOOM, there we go, that's the only fucking thing I was arguing with you. You can personally choose to define art however you'd like, I don't care. You weren't saying that it was solely your opinion though, you were making it sound like you were arguing definitively and objectively that it isn't art. Glad you're now admitting that it's simply your personal opinion, and not objective fact like you've been making it out to sound.
There's nothing generalized about what you said, you specifically mentioned both real and staged violence on film as being "disgusting" to watch, and that it somehow makes you a bad person for doing so. You said one thing about staged violence on film, and then you immediately contradicted yourself a few posts later.
I've read every one of your posts. Nothing about them changes any point I've made or addressed to you. Slasher films ARE OVERT AND ULTRA violence. How is disembowling, stabbing, mutilating, and torturing other human beings not "overt and ultra violence"? What's funny here is that Cannibal Holocaust, the film you're using as your primary example, is LESS VIOLENT than a Friday the 13th film, or your average R rated slasher film. Fuck, Scream 4 that just came out a month ago was FAR more violent and graphic than Cannibal Holocaust was.
I'm not trying to "win" anything (though it's clear that's exactly what you're trying to do), I'm trying to show you how fucking silly and ridiculous of a thread this is because you've spent the entire thread basically trying to force your personal opinion on violence on film onto other people by insulting them and insinuating that there's something wrong with them if they dare to disagree with you. Don't even fucking pretend that's not what you're doing either, because you've done it in every single post in this thread, constantly bringing up how there's "something wrong" with you if you watch a film with "OVERT AND ULTRA" violence in it. Fuck, Saving Private Ryan is more graphic, gorey, and disgusting than Cannibal Holocaust and the Faces of Death films combined, want to go tell some WWII veterans there's something wrong with them for watching and enjoying that film too?
I've read every post in this thread now. None of it changes anything I've said, or anything you've said.
We get it. It personally offends you. That's fine and fucking dandy, but absolutely NO ONE cares. You can have whatever opinion you want, but when you start insulting other people and trying to FORCE your opinion on others, that's when you cross the line from just expressing your personal opinion into being a raging dick trying to force your personal beliefs on others.
Seriously, is there an actual point to this fucking thread? You've shared your opinion on the matter, cool, we get the point. Why do you continue to argue with others who don't share your opinion on the matter? I want an answer to that question from you, because maybe then you'll realize exactly what you're doing, and that's trying to force your opinion on other people.
If you really want to get technical actually IDR, destruction is a form of creation. You're creating nothingness out of something. You're changing it's physiological existence. Technically, destruction is a form of creation.
BOOM, there we go, that's the only fucking thing I was arguing with you. You can personally choose to define art however you'd like, I don't care. You weren't saying that it was solely your opinion though, you were making it sound like you were arguing definitively and objectively that it isn't art. Glad you're now admitting that it's simply your personal opinion, and not objective fact like you've been making it out to sound.
There's nothing generalized about what you said, you specifically mentioned both real and staged violence on film as being "disgusting" to watch, and that it somehow makes you a bad person for doing so. You said one thing about staged violence on film, and then you immediately contradicted yourself a few posts later.
I've read every one of your posts. Nothing about them changes any point I've made or addressed to you. Slasher films ARE OVERT AND ULTRA violence. How is disembowling, stabbing, mutilating, and torturing other human beings not "overt and ultra violence"? What's funny here is that Cannibal Holocaust, the film you're using as your primary example, is LESS VIOLENT than a Friday the 13th film, or your average R rated slasher film. Fuck, Scream 4 that just came out a month ago was FAR more violent and graphic than Cannibal Holocaust was.
I'm not trying to "win" anything (though it's clear that's exactly what you're trying to do), I'm trying to show you how fucking silly and ridiculous of a thread this is because you've spent the entire thread basically trying to force your personal opinion on violence on film onto other people by insulting them and insinuating that there's something wrong with them if they dare to disagree with you. Don't even fucking pretend that's not what you're doing either, because you've done it in every single post in this thread, constantly bringing up how there's "something wrong" with you if you watch a film with "OVERT AND ULTRA" violence in it. Fuck, Saving Private Ryan is more graphic, gorey, and disgusting than Cannibal Holocaust and the Faces of Death films combined, want to go tell some WWII veterans there's something wrong with them for watching and enjoying that film too?
I've read every post in this thread now. None of it changes anything I've said, or anything you've said.
We get it. It personally offends you. That's fine and fucking dandy, but absolutely NO ONE cares. You can have whatever opinion you want, but when you start insulting other people and trying to FORCE your opinion on others, that's when you cross the line from just expressing your personal opinion into being a raging dick trying to force your personal beliefs on others.
Seriously, is there an actual point to this fucking thread? You've shared your opinion on the matter, cool, we get the point. Why do you continue to argue with others who don't share your opinion on the matter? I want an answer to that question from you, because maybe then you'll realize exactly what you're doing, and that's trying to force your opinion on other people.
