Because it needs to be said
- Thread starter It's Damn Real!
- Start date
By that same token, it was similar aficionados who were reviewing when Leone came out with his big hits. While I certainly don't think Hostel is going to be remembered as the same class of film as the Dollars trilogy, it's entirely possible that many aficionados can't see the forest for the trees this soon after a really shocking film is released.
As for films that rely ONLY on gratuitous violence, I don't think it's that big an issue. A lot of people are blinded by a lot of shitty things. Transformers films for instance that rely on fuck all but CGI robots fighting one another. That garbage has just as much artistic merit as stuff that's gore for the sake of gore. If anything, we should be panning morons who like shit movies rather than the existence of ultra-violence itself.
I honestly feel we're almost of the same mind on this. Almost. Deep down.
Mantaur Rodeo Clown
X-Pac Rules
Did you guys get A Clockwork Orange in America?
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Because we are. I despise those transformer films, and would like to slap anyone who tells me they are good, in any way shape or form. i was brought to the point of feeling physical rage while watching the second one.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
you mean like, physically? Or "get it" ??
yes
and
overrated. Highly. I guess I didnt "get" it, no
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
Yes, I do, actually.
But you do realize that 99.9% of death metal lyrics can't actually be understood, right? I don't need to understand the lyrical content to enjoy the music. I like the sound of it. I don't even read the lyrics to any of the songs. If I did, I might not listen to them anymore, same as I won't buy records with obscene cover/album art, because I don't want to see that type of thing depicted. Musically, however, I can tolerate it just fine without having to inherit any kind of deplorable imagery.
Also, Dethklok is a joke band who intentionally use the attraction of death metal to gore as a means of turning it into a cartoon, both figuratively and literally.
I also said the following:
I'm not referring to what I'll call "light violence" for the sake of this argument, like you see depicted in professional wrestling or action films. I know it's a grey area, but that kind of implied violence is cartoonish and intentionally so because it's not meant to be mistaken as real in any sense of the word. Yes, the line is blurred, intentionally no less, which is somewhat hypocritical on my part, but the line is still visible and determinable IMO, which separates it from implied overt or ultra violence, who's sole existence and purpose is to instill shock, to stir controversy and to blue the lines of your ability not to question whether or not what you just witnessed actually happened or not.
See above. I don't support or condone the ideals behind the songs, but musically I can enjoy the content of death metal without having to bear witness to deplorable sights.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
If you can't distinguish between what's real what's not, that's your problem.
I struggle to make it through visuals of people actually getting hurt. Once saw a video of a man being disemboweled and it made me puke on my best friends bedroom floor. It's the most disturbing thing I have ever seen. Hell, I get squeamish watching people wipe out on skateboards and shit.
But when I see someone get every limb on their body hacked off in a movie, it does nothing to me. You see, as a child my parents did what any good parent would do, they taught me that the things I see on television are not real. It's something that has stayed with me my entire life and as a result, I am capable of distinguishing reality from fantasy.
Go ahead and think there's something wrong with people for getting enjoyment out of films that depict graphic violence, I'll just keep on thinking that you had bad parents.
I struggle to make it through visuals of people actually getting hurt. Once saw a video of a man being disemboweled and it made me puke on my best friends bedroom floor. It's the most disturbing thing I have ever seen. Hell, I get squeamish watching people wipe out on skateboards and shit.
But when I see someone get every limb on their body hacked off in a movie, it does nothing to me. You see, as a child my parents did what any good parent would do, they taught me that the things I see on television are not real. It's something that has stayed with me my entire life and as a result, I am capable of distinguishing reality from fantasy.
Go ahead and think there's something wrong with people for getting enjoyment out of films that depict graphic violence, I'll just keep on thinking that you had bad parents.
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
Nate makes a great point here, one I had planned on making. He beat me to it.
Realism doesn't equal reality. Taking realism to the absolute brink doesn't mean what you're seeing has actually taken place. The difference between fiction and reality is something we're all taught, at a very young age, even if we have terrible parents.
Films and television shows have become much more realistic over the past 30 (or so) years, but that isn't the only thing that has changed. We have changed. People have changed. With this more realistic style of media comes a greater understanding of the difference between fiction and reality. The vast majority of people understand these films are fake, no matter how real they may appear.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of horror films. Gore does nothing for me, but I understand why people can handle, and find some entertainment value, in that particular form of entertainment -- they understand it isn't real.
The acts depicted in these films are meant to be disturbing. Thats the goal the director was looking for. You choose to watch or you dont. I dont think it is so much about the acts themsleves that bother you IDR, but rather the context in which they take place.
Another point. Say you witness a dog being run over. In real life it can be brutal looking, & will have more of an impact on you standing right in front of the act. Watching the same dog getting ran over on a tv screen is still a bit brutal, but you dont react nearly the same as if you witnessed it in person. Then you see a cartoon dog get hit by a cartoon truck. The brutality is almost completely gone & replaced by humor all because it is a cartoon. It dosent have an effect on you because it isnt real, its just ink on paper.
Its the degree of violence & the way its depicted, not simply the act itself. Getting punched in the face & getting shot in the head are both acts of violence. No one sees them in the same light. Getting hacked by a serial killer is not the same as a man slicing up a bad guy for hurting his family.
Watching stuff like this wont make you crazy, rational humans can decifer what is real or not. Acting out on the scenes\scenarios is what crosses the line.
Another point. Say you witness a dog being run over. In real life it can be brutal looking, & will have more of an impact on you standing right in front of the act. Watching the same dog getting ran over on a tv screen is still a bit brutal, but you dont react nearly the same as if you witnessed it in person. Then you see a cartoon dog get hit by a cartoon truck. The brutality is almost completely gone & replaced by humor all because it is a cartoon. It dosent have an effect on you because it isnt real, its just ink on paper.
Its the degree of violence & the way its depicted, not simply the act itself. Getting punched in the face & getting shot in the head are both acts of violence. No one sees them in the same light. Getting hacked by a serial killer is not the same as a man slicing up a bad guy for hurting his family.
Watching stuff like this wont make you crazy, rational humans can decifer what is real or not. Acting out on the scenes\scenarios is what crosses the line.
At least I won't stand in utter terror on the sight of someone point a gun. I'll probably be stupid enough to jump at it.
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
So as long as the graphic violence is heroic with morals added in, it's cool? What about graphic violence that's depicted in a bad light? Hostel, Saw, all these gore-porn movies still depict the acts of violence in a bad light. And people enjoying this are insane, yet people enjoying graphic violence by a "good" guy for "moral" reasons is completely fine.
Also, Dexter doesn't have to follow that code. He just wants to kill. The only reason he even follows the code is to honor Harry, and because people aren't in a rush to investigate the murders of other murderers. There's nothing moral about what he does; he's a vigilante.
You won't watch them, but you can make all kinds of judgments based on the scenes itself (scenes you've never watched), disregarding ALL context, merit, and backstory. You're right, everybody here should value your opinion, because it's backed up with so much weight.
In your opinion. But you don't get to decide who's mentally unstable, Mr. Internet Psychologist.
You're the one who fucking brought it up. I said it was a ******ed lawsuit/criminal charge, based on absolutely zero evidence to the idea that it was a legitimate snuff film.
You said you question the mental stability of those that enjoy things that fall outside of your little entertainment bubble, simply because you aren't comfortable with the idea of graphic violence.
You never said they're insane, but you know that there's something mentally wrong with them.
Okay, IDR.
Those insults are nothing like childish insults. They were backed with absolutely real emotion, based on the stupid shit you've said. A REAL childish insult would be you calling me "Roach" as if you think you're more clever than that kid in Kindergarten who first called me that.
Your child porn comparison was idiotic at best, slanderous at worst, and an insult to everybody here who simply enjoys a genre of film you have decided only reaches out to the mentally unstable.
The world doesn't revolve around you, IDR, and I think it's time you realize it.
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
Uncle Phatso
Mid-Card Championship Winner
99.9%? Are you kidding me? I can allmost pick out all the lyrics on all Metal songs with gutteral growls. It's not that hard and I believe the lyrics add something that good playing cant. It's not that hard to pick up the lyrics if you have been with the same band for a long time.
Some people won't lisiten to Job for a Cowboy because they can't "understand" their lyrics. I can perfectly.
You are allways going to find harder lyrics in the metal Genre. Look at the label that bands like Black Sabbith got when they were pionering the Genre that we love today. It's just music, and it's just life man. No one goes to Horror movies and beats their meat to people getting killed. It's to pass time and for shock value.
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
So wait, let me get this straight. Metal is A-OK because people "herp derp can't understand them," but implied violence is something only enjoyed by the mentally unstable?
Jesus fucking Christ.
Uncle Phatso
Mid-Card Championship Winner
What people have to realise also is that most horror movies are just a big Dick measuring contest anyways.
Director A notices that Director b's movie only had 6 peoples Neck broken in their last movie. So he tries to up it by doing something more edgy or just breaking 7 necks. It's a never ending cycle. If it's been "done" before it has to go farther.
Director A notices that Director b's movie only had 6 peoples Neck broken in their last movie. So he tries to up it by doing something more edgy or just breaking 7 necks. It's a never ending cycle. If it's been "done" before it has to go farther.
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
No, art can be challenging. The only thing art is supposed to be is original. Anything that isn't, is imitation.
I'm tired of repeating myself here. There's nothing "artistic" about portraying barbarism. Nothing. Not to me, at least.
My ability as a director of some gore gilm to make a man being impaled by a dull metal pole look as real as possible is not artistic, it's sick and indicative that something is wrong with my moral compass.
You and whoever else here don't agree? By all means, disagree, but I'm not going to keep arguing with a brick wall.
"No, IDR, you are the brick wall."
And then IDR was a zombie.
And then IDR was a zombie.
Uncle Phatso
Mid-Card Championship Winner
I enjoy zombies.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
Not going to waste my time reading this thread but are people arguing faces of death is art? I really hope that is trolling.
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
Nobody said anything about faces of death at all. We're talking about fictitious death and violence in films.
Okay. And how is using extreme or graphic violence in a film "imitation"? Terrible, disgusting, awful things happen to human beings all the time. It would only be natural that a story-telling device like a film would use that experience in their work.
Art can sometimes be a hard thing to define, but filmmaking most certainly falls under that definition almost always. Whether barbaric actions take place in the film or not has no bearing on it's definition as art. You can choose to think it's crass and vulgar and bad art, but it's still art.
Oh good lord, you sound like an Evangelical Christian launching an anti-video game campaign. In actuality, reproducing these violent images on screen, in games, or in writing can be therapeutic to the person creating it and there is a huge demand and audience for gorey films. Violence is titillating, for God's sake we're on a forum dedicated entirely to a fake "sport" of violence, you'd think this would be obvious. There's nothing wrong with your "moral compass" if you enjoy watching a slasher film or playing a violent video game.
A brick wall...I just jumped into this conversation with one post. It sounds to me like because something personally offends you, you feel the need to instigate and insult others if it doesn't personally offend them as well. That about sums up this thread and I only read half of it.
I guess 300 is currently on the lead then. I consider movies with apocalyptic endings as cheating.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
You know what really needs to be said? Why the fuck does IDR put those stupid icons in his thread titles?
