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Am I A Blind Fan?
- Thread starter ABMorales787
- Start date
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Thoguht I did. Guess not.
Faster than they are now. They keep getting close to making a move forward and then step backwards to reset things a bit and try something new. It's like they're on a treadmill. They run as fast as they can and yet they never get anywhere beyond a few steps ahead of where they were before. As for how fast should they grow, they should (and of course this is a best case scenario) be able to look back at where they were give or take a year ago and say yes, we're better than we were then and here's why. They haven't been able to do that in a long time. It's like they keep taking 2 steps backwards for 1 step forward. TNA should take some chances every now and then instead of rehashing the same stuff they've done over and over again.
In short, they should grow at the point where they make easily notable progress each year, not progress at the point where you have to look at it specifically and break things down to find the growth in there.
Again, read the fucking article, because it addresses your first line of attack bullshit almost immediately. When have I EVER said I hated TNA? Ever? Even once? For any reason? Find me, right now, a quote of me ever saying I ahte TNA at any point in time in my entire history of writing about wrestling on this forum or others. There is a difference between dislike and flat out hatred. I can dislike the direction a company makes while still watching it, all the while not hating it in the slightest bit. I want nothing but the best for TNA as a company, but unfortunately I don't see destroying everything they spent the first 7 years of their company building around in favor of Bischoff/Russo/Hogan Crash TV 2.0 for a few measly points in the ratings as being what's "best" for the company long-term unlike you and the rest of your crew of TNA apologists.
Don't tell me how I feel about a promotion IDR. I've never claimed to hate TNA, and I don't. I've spent quite a bit of money on that promotion over the years, have attended their shows before, and was once proud to call myself a fan of the company. Don't you for one fucking second tell me how I feel, mmkay?
#CredibilityMeetWindow
Oh shit I'm not up to date on my hip twitter lingo, shit, got me there man.
I'm sorry, do you have an opinion differing to the one I made clear in my last post? Take for example about the Victory Road main event? Do you disagree with my view that it was a joke of a main event? Well by all means kind sir, sit down, relax, and explain to me why it was such a great main event then. Since, after all, this is clearly a matter of biased opinion vs. biased opinion instead of just concrete fact.
Sorry, anyone who's going to tell me that match wasn't a pathetic joke is wrong. Not because it's their opinion, or because of any biases, or because of their flipping hair color. They are wrong because it was 90 seconds long, consisted mostly of Jeff Hardy teasing throwing his T-shirt into the crowd, and ended a PPV a good 20 minutes earlier than it was supposed to.
No, it's what happens when I talk to someone like you for more than 20 minutes and realize now full of shit you are. You pull the same superiority high-and-mighty bullshit you accuse me of in regards to anyone who still watches the WWE, you brag constantly about how you stopped watching them because their product was just SOOOO bad. Well, I'm sorry, you aren't objective then. If you watch a hard-fought 20 minute match between two excellent workers in the WWE, shit on it, and then turn around and praise how amazing TNA is while they give us 5 minute main events every single fucking week again and again, sorry, no you aren't objective, you are a blind mark. Simple as that. That, or apparently you have an ENTIRELY different set of standards for what you want in a wrestling show. All I want is the following: good wrestling, storylines that make sense, and booking that doesn't insult the viewer (like having a number one contender's match every single week and having it end in a bullshit dusty finish every fucking week). Apparently what you want it something entirely different. Apparently TNA gives you what the WWE doesn't, I don't know, perhaps you watch a wrestling company because you enjoy to see bullshit finishes week after week, 5 minute main events, and feuds and angles completely dropped without any sort of resolution (Joe's kidnapping, Ray/Devon, twelve billion other feuds and angles that were never mentioned again).
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
Most definitions of hate I have ever seen say something like to dislike intensely. Also, when did anyone say that Victory Road had a great main event? It is one fucked up thing. Get over it and move on with your life.
Thriller Ant
Beep Bop Boop
If you read what he said, X said that just because he dislikes a company's direction, doesn't mean he hates the company.
1) If I hated TNA, I flat out wouldn't watch any of their shows, ever. Makes sense, doesn't it? People tend to avoid things they hate. I don't hate TNA. At all. People who truly hate TNA are those that flat out do not watch the product and have no interest in it. Their mind is made up and it can't be changed. My mind isn't. My opinion of the company is constantly changing and evolving, and at no point have I ever hated that TNA exists.
2) I'm using the Victory Road main event an as example of an objective truth--that the match was a joke. That is not arguable or subjective opinion, it is an objective truth based on the match's failure to live up to the standards set before it by thousands of PPVs on what one should constitute a "PPV main event". And a 90 second match, under any definition is anything other than a joke. Easy example of an objective truth, which is what I'm arguing about.
Dreams does actually make a valid point. Who is defending the main event of Victory Road? I haven't been. IDR hasn't been. None of the internet I'm aware of has been? Hell; even TNA themselves have pretty much upped and admitted it was shit.
The most I've seen anyone do anywhere is suggest that it's not that big a deal, which given that people were running around talking about how it was going to destroy the company was almost certainly the right thing to say.
The most I've seen anyone do anywhere is suggest that it's not that big a deal, which given that people were running around talking about how it was going to destroy the company was almost certainly the right thing to say.
Nope.
I actually agree with you about Victory Road, but that doesn't make it an objective truth. The only way you could "objectively" say that a match was bad would be if there was some demonstrable negative consequence from the matches existence.
If no negative consequence manifests itself then any proclamation that the match was shit will remain a subjective statement. Not an unreasonable subjective statement. A subjective statement I wholeheartedly agree with. But a subjective statement none the less.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
True, no one is defending the VR main event. I think in the LD of that show I said something like "Go ahead TNA fans. Defend it. I dare you." or something like that and no one could, which was a relief.
The problem with VR is it's indicative of one of TNA's major issues: they don't think before they do things. Point blank, that shouldn't have happened and common sense would tell you that. It came off to me as TNA either not paying attention or not caring. yes they've admitted it was bad and offered those that bought the show something to make up for it (which is a very good thing and calmed me down about it a good bit) but at the end of the day: Jeff Hardy should not have been out there and TNA knew that was a risk when they hired him. The problem with TNA here is that they don't seem to think ahead and it backfired on them. It's like they have no long term plan, at least from what I can see.
The problem with VR is it's indicative of one of TNA's major issues: they don't think before they do things. Point blank, that shouldn't have happened and common sense would tell you that. It came off to me as TNA either not paying attention or not caring. yes they've admitted it was bad and offered those that bought the show something to make up for it (which is a very good thing and calmed me down about it a good bit) but at the end of the day: Jeff Hardy should not have been out there and TNA knew that was a risk when they hired him. The problem with TNA here is that they don't seem to think ahead and it backfired on them. It's like they have no long term plan, at least from what I can see.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
What's TNA?
Just kidding. Actually, since I completely ignore the TNA section (no offense, I just don't watch it, so why should I go there, I'll just piss people off), I really can't say for certain, but as long as you're willing to admit the companies failings then you're not a BLIND fan. That has no standing on you as a poster outside of TNA, by the way.
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And Gelgarin, TNA (if they want to be considered a real national/global promotion) should have been out of the iMPACT! Zone long ago, at least for their primary telecast, that's how fast they should be growing. WCW outgrew the place by the time Nitro started (7 years into their history), and had their Primary Weekly telecast in different locales every week.
TNA tries to make themselves out to be a national company (even close to WWE), yet they stay in one location week in and week out. It doesn't matter if they run house shows all over. The TV is in the same place every week (and most PPVs are there too). The iMPACT Zone should be used for shows like Xplosion, not iMPACT. Even if they just use the smaller arena's in the Southeast, they still APPEAR to be a big-time company on their telecast, since they aren't at a theme park.
At the LATEST, when they bought Hogan and Bischoff they should have started touring weekly. Look at when they were in North Carolina for the 2 iMPACTs in early March. They (to their credit) seemingly filled the place, which looked MASSIVE compared to the small-time iMPACT Zone. I do not know the numbers, but they had to have EASILY doubled their attendance then at the iMPACT Zone. Why can't they run a show in Georgia the next time, or somewhere else in Florida, or back in Nashville, etc.
Just kidding. Actually, since I completely ignore the TNA section (no offense, I just don't watch it, so why should I go there, I'll just piss people off), I really can't say for certain, but as long as you're willing to admit the companies failings then you're not a BLIND fan. That has no standing on you as a poster outside of TNA, by the way.
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And Gelgarin, TNA (if they want to be considered a real national/global promotion) should have been out of the iMPACT! Zone long ago, at least for their primary telecast, that's how fast they should be growing. WCW outgrew the place by the time Nitro started (7 years into their history), and had their Primary Weekly telecast in different locales every week.
TNA tries to make themselves out to be a national company (even close to WWE), yet they stay in one location week in and week out. It doesn't matter if they run house shows all over. The TV is in the same place every week (and most PPVs are there too). The iMPACT Zone should be used for shows like Xplosion, not iMPACT. Even if they just use the smaller arena's in the Southeast, they still APPEAR to be a big-time company on their telecast, since they aren't at a theme park.
At the LATEST, when they bought Hogan and Bischoff they should have started touring weekly. Look at when they were in North Carolina for the 2 iMPACTs in early March. They (to their credit) seemingly filled the place, which looked MASSIVE compared to the small-time iMPACT Zone. I do not know the numbers, but they had to have EASILY doubled their attendance then at the iMPACT Zone. Why can't they run a show in Georgia the next time, or somewhere else in Florida, or back in Nashville, etc.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
It is worth mentioning we still know precious little about what actually happened during the day surrounding victory road. If you want to assume they knew he was too high with substantial notice I cannot think of a good reason to send him out there except wanting to preserve long-term plans.
There were demonstrable negative consequences to the match's existence Gelgarin. TNA came out and offered 6 months of free TNA On Demand to anyone who ordered their PPV, solely because of that main event. They are giving away their product, for free, losing out on potential profit, because of that match's existence. It harmed the company in a tangible way that you can point at and acknowledge as either a fan or as a member of the company. Any way you slice it, they are losing money by giving away all of that free on-demand service, clogging up their servers with people who are receiving the product free of charge. How is that not a clear and obvious negative consequence to this match's very existence?
And again, I never said you or anyone was defending the VR main event, I was simply using it as an example of something that was so bad that not even the most die-hard TNA marks could defend it.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
So no one talked to him before the show, during the show, or 5 minutes before he went through the curtain? That's rather stupid also then.
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
I might, were it actually written by someone with an objective opinion (that matters) and not another fan sitting from home with the same axe to grind regurgitating the same rhetoric as the rest of the IWC fans who's "job" it is to shit on TNA.
As to the rest of your input — you don't have to actually say you hate a company for it to be inferred you do when your only contributions week-after-week in any given TNA LD is how much the company has fallen since the days when you were still a fan (yet you continue to watch – yeah, "review" — whatever), how pathetic the show quality is, how little actual in-ring wrestling there is juxtaposed with any other segments on the program, how bad of a wrestler anyone over the age of n is, how underused anyone who's ever appeared in an independent circuit is being used and best yet, how stupid, blind and gullible anyone is who could actually find enjoyment from any of the aforementioned. But how rude of me — you didn't actually say it, so what basis do I have to actually believe you do?
By the way, since we're going full-blown into rhetorical insults, where the hell are we meeting this week, TNA Defenders League? I sent out a notice on our ultra hip twitter account, but no one got back to me. Gelgarin, it's your turn to bring donuts, man, and don't tell me they ran out of jelly again. It was all over your shirt last time.
Do I disagree it was a joke? Yes, actually, because it wasn't funny and jokes are supposed to be funny, but I do agree that it was tragic and far from acceptable, which is why TNA acknowledged that very thing by offering that six-months of service to anyone who sent in their cable bill showing they ordered it. As to whether or not that's acceptable, frankly it's for a different discussion. I'm not here for that.
Wait a second, did I just get through a notion about TNA without defending the company? How can this be?! Lordy, it's a miracle! I can see again!
I "brag" about how I stopped watching them? No, I note that I did as a means to make a point about what I consider acceptable standards for a wrestling program I watch. I think you need to grab that soapbox of yours again so you can climb up and get a closer view at the dictionary entry for brag, since you are obviously having a difficult time grasping the concept of it. While you're there, turn to the page and look up objective, too. You need a reeducation there as well.
Objectivity is simply the act of being objective, or in this case the ability to watch a wrestling program without bias.
This (http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=2965154&postcount=12), is bias. Not only do you know what is going to happen before it airs, but you are prejudging the events before they're actually displayed based off the subjective (note, not objective) "reporting" of someone else who could have "reported" said events with their own bias. Grab that dictionary again...
The fact I don't actually watch WWE programming does not make me incapable of being objective about their programming, as I don't watch it, so I can't have a valid or relevant opinion of it's current state of things, which is also why if you pay a little closer attention to my posts regarding it, I always reference it in past-tense, right up to the point I cancelled all it's programming from my DVR. The fact I did watch it for a period means I am fully capable of being objective about what I saw, and I was in fact objective about it. I watched each week with an open mind on what could happen and was let down and disappointed in their approach and their execution, the same way you are with TNA's week-after-week. Difference between us? I actually listened to the part of my brain that told me "WWE programming is sub-standard to you and only brings you aggravation, boredom and misery. If you stop watching it, you will forego said aggravation, boredom and misery."
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
A) You changed the subject
and
B) By most reports he showed up late and disappeared and then shit really hit the fan pretty close to the match. They probably had to make a quick decision without all the information. They probably guessed incorrectly that he was not really that bad off. They already have suffered the consequences for that decision which they did rectify at the expense of their main event as soon as they realized it. Now please explain how something extremely abnormal relates to their usual product and plans.
and
B) By most reports he showed up late and disappeared and then shit really hit the fan pretty close to the match. They probably had to make a quick decision without all the information. They probably guessed incorrectly that he was not really that bad off. They already have suffered the consequences for that decision which they did rectify at the expense of their main event as soon as they realized it. Now please explain how something extremely abnormal relates to their usual product and plans.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
A. I'm talking about Hardy and his condition. Read as: the same thing.
B. Not talking about that. Talking about what happened in front of the camera. You changed the subject.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
Your definition of long-term plans is quite curious kb.
I forgot the password IDR. Is it still WCW?
I forgot the password IDR. Is it still WCW?
One Punch Doug Crashin
I AM INVINSIBLE!
So you don't watch WWE because it's too "Predictable" and watch TNA because it's "unpredictable? OK got it.
And this is why I like discussing TNA with you Gelgarin. You are reasonable. You are willing to admit if/when your debate sparring partner has a valid point. I'm sure my approval of you means the world to you after all (
). The only time I ever use that site is for when I'm looking for news on something that JUST happened like minutes or an hour ago, it's good for that. Otherwise I hate the thing. Twitter can #Fuck off.
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
Dude, I changed it, I told you "HaHaWereBetterThanYou4Lyfe".
Write it down, damnit!
So you don't watch WWE because it's too "Predictable" and watch TNA because it's "unpredictable? OK got it.
Not at all. I don't watch WWE because I found their product boring predominantly due to the fact that the majority of their roster (at the time I was watching) were seemingly the same carbon-copy cookie cutter clones of the same generic wrestler with the same generic move set and the same generic personality (or more appropriately the same generic lack of personality).
TNA is, however, unpredictable to me, or at least more so than WWE was when I was still watching it, though that has almost no bearing on whether I enjoy the product or not. Personality drives it for me. I watch to see performers perform who entertain me, and I'm entertained by personality first and foremost, ring ability, entrance, attire and story line second, third, fourth, etc. non respectively.
I'll gladly admit I wasn't being objective in that conversation. I've always disliked the Gagne family, so I did bring bias into that thread and argument, but I also readily admitted that I wasn't being objective in that case.
I just got a comp of some of Verne and Greg's major singles feuds over the early to mid 80s though, so I'm willing to give them another chance. It helps that all the old AWA on ESPN episodes they air on ESPN Classic has me in the mood for some AWA. They had such an awesome tag division.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
To be fair, who predicted Jeff Hardy being too fucked up to main event Victory Road? Pretty unpredictable.