2013 NHL Thread

[justinsayne]

This just annoys me, I was ready to set up a fantasy league for WZ this year, since it seemed like we finally had enough hockey fans interested enough to to make a decent league work. I was also excited for the upcoming season after seeing the moves Min. made, curious at what Det. would look like without Lidstrom, interested to see if LA would be a contender & as fun to watch this were as they were last year in the playoffs, I was more excited for this upcoming season than I have been for most, I usually don't tend to pay as close attention to hockey during football season as I should, typically I start jumping on board around the time of the winter classic & all-star break, but this year I was thinking of buying the the Center Ice package so I could actually see more games, & me a few friends were actually looking to into ticket packages in hopes of seeing a Wild game or two, but then of course we get our third lockout in less than 20 yrs., I was willing to spend some money on the NHL this year but now, even if we do get a season I really doubt any of that is going to happen, this is just incredibly disappointing & frustrating, I have no idea what I'm going to do once football season is over.

 

[Thriller Ant]

It's not that black and white, Thriller. You are viewing this under the microscope of "Owners" v. "Players". That's simply not the reality of the situation. In reality, it's closer to "Rich Owners" v. "Players" v. "Owners Losing Money Hand-Over-Fist, Struggling to Maintain the Integrity of their Clubs".

When you have a majority of teams that lose money each season, it's hard to convince a team owner that they have a financial incentive to settle a long-term deal that may keep them losing money. If you will lose $8M this year if you agree to a deal and lose less if you don't, there isn't much incentive there. This is why the players tend to fold first. They are losing almost 100% of the money they would have made this year. Only the top teams in the league as far as profitability really face immediate hardship from a lost season.

Something to remember here — earning revenue isn't the same as making a profit. Since the lockout, the Wild (for example) have lost $4M in profits even though they have increased their revenue by $26M. In fact, the only thing that has consistently risen every single year since the lockout for the them has been the amount they have spent on player's salary. So they generate more revenue, the players benefit from higher compensation, but the owners don't see a profit.

The NHLPA's arguement is, "hey, you got the deal you wanted 7 years ago, now you have to accept it again and keep losing money."

Why is that? Because they get penalized for spending money to increase revenue. Lets say they decide to spend an extra $100,000 this year on an advertising campaign and that advertising campaign increases revenue by $200,000. Seems like a win, right? Doubled their investment. It is for the players under the old deal. Of that new $200K in revenue, the players get 57% or $114,000. That leaves $86,000 for the owners. It cost them $100K to make $86K. Does that make them bad business people? No. It means the deal they have with the players isn't working.

I'm definitely not saying it should stay at 57/43. Something much closer to 50/50 is what should come out of this, because the players are coming out very far ahead in that deal. I'm just saying that it is hard for me to believe the owners crying poor when they keep handing out longer contracts worth more money.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I'm definitely not saying it should stay at 57/43. Something much closer to 50/50 is what should come out of this, because the players are coming out very far ahead in that deal. I'm just saying that it is hard for me to believe the owners crying poor when they keep handing out longer contracts worth more money.

Read that last paragraph again.

50/50 makes the most sense on paper, but it's not that simple, either.

Plenty of pundits and fans believe the solution is as easy as 50/50, but it's really not. The NHLPA is willing to reduce it's share to 50%, or close, but only if revenues continue to grow and the players can gradually slide back into the middle ground. This is the crux of one of their first proposals. They signed deals they want honored, not slashed to appease the owners.

This just annoys me, I was ready to set up a fantasy league for WZ this year, since it seemed like we finally had enough hockey fans interested enough to to make a decent league work. I was also excited for the upcoming season after seeing the moves Min. made, curious at what Det. would look like without Lidstrom, interested to see if LA would be a contender & as fun to watch this were as they were last year in the playoffs, I was more excited for this upcoming season than I have been for most, I usually don't tend to pay as close attention to hockey during football season as I should, typically I start jumping on board around the time of the winter classic & all-star break, but this year I was thinking of buying the the Center Ice package so I could actually see more games, & me a few friends were actually looking to into ticket packages in hopes of seeing a Wild game or two, but then of course we get our third lockout in less than 20 yrs., I was willing to spend some money on the NHL this year but now, even if we do get a season I really doubt any of that is going to happen, this is just incredibly disappointing & frustrating, I have no idea what I'm going to do once football season is over.

Yup. Now imagine what this feels like for people like me, who don't even watch other sports. You're asking what you'll do when football season is over, I'm asking what I'm going to do all year.

In the end, the fans get fucked. Always.

 

[Lowdown]

I hate this, especially since I've been able to watch more hockey than I've been able to to in the last few years. Like IDR said, the fans are the ones that get shafted in the end. Hell, I was even about to look into fantasy hockey myself, but that's a wash.

 

[ShawnyBoy]

I Hope this lockdown wont lock the entire season. Its getting long already , and we are about to lose the Winter Classic too ... Shame , Shame .. i had great hopes for my sens this season.. Hopefully they can figure something out soon ..

 

[It's Damn Real!]

The framework for a deal is there, but the two sides are both playing hardball, waiting for the other to blink. In a negotiation, you can't ask for anything worse in terms of a foundation if you're looking for a quick resolution.

My guess is that we still end up with something of a 56-60 game season, though that's based entirely on speculation. The fact the players/owners have essentially agreed to take the HRR discussions to the fairest possible split of 50/50 is great, but there are still far too many core issues on the table that the two sides are miles apart on, unfortunately.

 

[Lowdown]

Man I want hockey back now. The Lakers are off to a crappy start and I'm going through Kings withdrawal. I want to see my banner raised, dammit.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Can you smell the ice yet, boys? Can you hear the thunder from the body checks and feel the adrenaline coursing through your veins as the goal horn blares?

Hockey is literally less than 24 hours away from it's long-awaited, much anticipated return, and it's gonna be a helluva season, even if it is a dash.

Here's to hoping for a fantastic season, and even better playoffs, an incredibly entertaining Stanley Cup Final and a great fantasy season!

Thoroughly looking forward to watching the Rangers' beat the Bruins tomorrow to start the march to the Cup off on the right foot! LET'S GO RANGERS!

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Fantastic bounce-back game for the Rangers last night, with Gáborík reminding the league why he's still one of the most deceptively dangerous forwards in the league, registering his 14th career hat trick that also served as the exciting OT game-winner in the process.

I was really hoping to see the Rangers spread the talent on the team so we didn't end up a one-line team again, but right now you just can't argue with results, and results are what the Nash/Richards/Gábs line are putting up right now.

Nash is 1-2-3, Gábs is 3-0-3 and Richards is 1-3-4 (and a +3) through three games.

The way they're working, especially with Michael Del Zotto, is a treat to watch, and there's no reason to fuck with what works right now. If it ain't broken, don't fix it, kinda thing.

Same goes for Taylor Pyatt, who's probably the biggest surprise on the team right now with two goals in three games, and who has looked like the Rangers' best two-way forward in that time span. With the talk of Chris Kreider potentially being sent back to the Whale to work on his game (while he's still free of waivers), I wouldn't be shocked to see Pyatt slide up to the second line with Stepan and Callahan.

 

[TheRocker035]

Tank God For Hockey.

Got NHL Center Ice for $50 so I can watch my Red Wings here in IL. Have had some great games the first week so far. Im super pumped for the season to get into full swing.

 

[hatehabsforever]

And the Rangers continue to struggle. 1-3 to start the season, although frankly, they've had tough opponents for all four games thus far. While their lone victory, in overtime, was against a formidable opponent, they have to be less than impressed with such a slow start to the season.

And where the hell is Rick Nash? Did he stay in Columbus or something?

 

[justinsayne]

And where the hell is Rick Nash? Did he stay in Columbus or something?

What are you talking about, he has 3 pts. in 4 games. That seems pretty good to me.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

And the Rangers continue to struggle. 1-3 to start the season, although frankly, they've had tough opponents for all four games thus far. While their lone victory, in overtime, was against a formidable opponent, they have to be less than impressed with such a slow start to the season.

And where the hell is Rick Nash? Did he stay in Columbus or something?

The guy has dominated in every game he's played in. Tonight was the first game in his first four with the club where you could say he didn't have a "great" game, but neither did any of the Rangers' players.

He's all over the ice, especially in the defensive zone where he's turning a lot of heads among the coaching staff because of the fact he's always been a career minus player.

Watching On The Fly highlights and seeing Nash not show up on a score sheet does not equate him not showing up, like you're alluding to. If that's the case, where the fuck is Tyler Seguin?

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Rick Nash, again, absolutely dominating.

Gáborík with a four-point night. Nash with two assists, but was directly responsible for four of the five goals the team scored, and a force on defense.

Nash, Richards, Gáborík get eight points combined over the line in a 5-2 come-back victory against the Leafs.

The third period was a classic Rangers' performance. The type we got so used to watching last season that lead to an Eastern Conference Finals berth for the first time in a long time.

Rangers also picked up Jason Arnott as a free agent, which is a fine depth signing. One year, $1.6M. Had 17 goals, 17 assists with the Blues last season. Guy plays with balls. Should fit right in.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Rangers/Devils pick up where they left off in Game 6 of the Eastern Conference Final last season tonight at 7PM. Really amped for this match-up, especially because the Rangers pulled off a number of moves to get some energy into the bottom-6 of the team, including a trade with Minnesota that pulled back Darroll Powe (great penalty-killer, shot-blocker and guy who will fight anyone — essentially the new Prust [he's even wearing #8]) for Mike Rupp, who while he was a great veteran and team mate, was just too slow for this team.

They also have JT Miller, the Rangers' 2011 first-round pick debuting, and the potential return of Chris Kreider, our 2010 first-rounder.

I'd love to see Kreider and Miller on a line together, with Boyle on the third line, leaving Powe with Asham and Halpern. Perfect blend of energy, speed and scoring to really compliment the breakdown of the club's forward corps.

Either way, this should be a nasty bit of business, as both clubs will be dressing a number of fighters.

LET'S GO RANGERS!

 

[hatehabsforever]

So the agent for Cory Schneider, former goaltender Mike Liut, is getting frustrated on behalf of his client regarding his sudden lack of playing time. In fairness to Schneider, he's taking things in stride and on the surface is being a true professional, so I find it interesting to see the agent start to grumble a little. Especially when you consider that there's no guarantee at this point that Luongo is the one heading out of Vancouver.

Personally, I wouldn't be one bit surprised to see Schneider be the odd man out and to see Luongo remain with the Canucks. He has a much easier contract to move and he's basically unproven. What happens to the fortunes of the Canucks if they move Luongo, one of the best goaltenders of this era, and Schneider turns out to be a bust? I'd love to see Luongo have the opportunity to display that's he's still an elite goalie capable of regular season and playoff success, and have him display it in Vancouver. I've always thought that allegations of choking and inability to get it done in the playoffs are inaccurate and unfair. I mean, there's no shame in losing to the Bruins in game seven if the Stanley Cup Finals as they did in 2011. And their problems in 2012 were not only Luongo's fault.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

That will not happen. I'd bet a vital body part on it.

Luongo is being showcased, even if it means a "circus year", where he's then moved over the summer (as he should have been last).

Fact is, Schneider has two VERY integral aspects to his deal favoring him HEAVILY here:

1. Contract value
2. AGE!

Luongo is already 33 and still has like nine years left on his contract with four or five walk-away years. That deal is absurd, and there's just no chance in hell he sticks with the Canucks. He's on borrowed time as it is.

Schneider is not unproven, nor can he be a bust. He's already shown he can play over the last two seasons, albeit in a backup turned starter role. He'll be fine. He's the guy.

 

[hatehabsforever]

That will not happen. I'd bet a vital body part on it.

You'd better be careful about a wager of this type involving vital body parts. You may want to wait until you have kids first.

Luongo is being showcased, even if it means a "circus year", where he's then moved over the summer (as he should have been last).

There is no doubt that he was being showcased, but you have to wonder if in the process, they may have realized just how valuable an asset they already have. Because the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

I don't doubt that they may move him in the offseason. I'm simply saying that I'm not convinced he's going anywhere during this abbreviated season. And I'm also not convinced that they are going to carry two goalies all season. If they could move Schneider and get some talent in return, including a young and promising backup goaltender (Reimer for example), I wouldn't be surprised to see them do it.

Fact is, Schneider has two VERY integral aspects to his deal favoring him HEAVILY here:

1. Contract value
2. AGE!

Luongo is already 33 and still has like nine years left on his contract with four or five walk-away years. That deal is absurd, and there's just no chance in hell he sticks with the Canucks. He's on borrowed time as it is.

At 33, Luongo still has several quality years left in him. As evidenced by Tim Thomas, Martin Brodeur, and others. You're hardly past your prime at 33. The details of the contact which you mention are what make me believe he isn't going anywhere. The Canucks willingly took on this absurd contract. I'm not so convinced that another team would necessarily be so financially irresponsible. Meanwhile, a far more affordable Schneider might be a little more enticing.

Schneider is not unproven, nor can he be a bust. He's already shown he can play over the last two seasons, albeit in a backup turned starter role. He'll be fine. He's the guy.

He absolutely is unproven as the starter, as the number one go to guy. Sure, he's performed well while standing in the shadows of Luongo, but is he ready to hoist the fortunes of the club on his shoulders, having the franchise rise or fall according to his performance? Early indications are that he may not be able to stand up to this scrutiny. Especially in hockey crazy Canada.

And he absolutely could turn it to be a bust, although frankly I doubt it. But there's no telling how he'll respond to the pressures of being the main man. I have no doubt he can play. I also am sure he'll be just fine. I'm just not totally convinced that he'll be fine and be playing in Vancouver.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Dude, the average retirement age in the NHL is 35 for a reason. "A few quality years left in him" is not a reason to trade away the young and promising goaltender for the old horse with a visible expiration date on his neck. This would have been like the Bruins moving Rask and keeping Thomas, because "he has a few quality years left in him".

Evidenced by Tim Thomas and Marty Brodeur? You are talking about minority players here, guy. The vast majority of players in the NHL retire near 35, or shortly after, because the rigors of the NHL wear their bodies out and lower their reaction times, etc.

I can barely put into words how absurd the idea is to trade away Schneider instead of Luongo. I don't know how else to tell you. Luongo is the guy who will be moved, and rightfully so. He is on the WRONG side of 30, has the HIGHER cap hit (going into a year when the cap drops), is the one who REQUESTED a trade, is the one with the poor playoff track record and has a contract with walk-away years on it.

Schneider is the guy. He's the guy. He's the guy. He. Is. The. Guy.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Dude, the average retirement age in the NHL is 35 for a reason. "A few quality years left in him" is not a reason to trade away the young and promising goaltender for the old horse with a visible expiration date on his neck. This would have been like the Bruins moving Rask and keeping Thomas, because "he has a few quality years left in him".

Evidenced by Tim Thomas and Marty Brodeur? You are talking about minority players here, guy. The vast majority of players in the NHL retire near 35, or shortly after, because the rigors of the NHL wear their bodies out and lower their reaction times, etc.

I can barely put into words how absurd the idea is to trade away Schneider instead of Luongo. I don't know how else to tell you. Luongo is the guy who will be moved, and rightfully so. He is on the WRONG side of 30, has the HIGHER cap hit (going into a year when the cap drops), is the one who REQUESTED a trade, is the one with the poor playoff track record and has a contract with walk-away years on it.

Schneider is the guy. He's the guy. He's the guy. He. Is. The. Guy.

The thing is, though, is that there are exceptions to every rule. Some players are truly elite players who through a combination of God given ability, excellent fitness and training regimens, and a solid dose of good fortune, are able to keep Father Time at bay for a little longer. And Luongo may just be one of those guys. You have one of these guys on your fantasy team, a guy who has no business still existing in the NHL, yet there he is, continuing to excel, and he's nearly a full decade older than Luongo.

A few more quality years left in him is more than reason enough to keep him around. Sometimes, teams tend to focus so much on their future, that they tend to forget about the present. Luongo has won the President's trophy for his team for the last two years. He took them to Game Seven of the Finals just two years ago, succumbing to the superior team in seven games. If he can sustain this level of play and keep his team in such good standing for another 3-5 years, I think they will have gotten maximum bang for their buck. Who knows, he might even be able to add a Stanley Cup to his CV by then.

In regards to your Thomas/Rask analogy, I think Rask did exactly what Schneider should be doing (which for the most part he is, despite the complaints of his agent). Stay in the background and wait for your time. Make the most of your opportunities when they present themselves but in the meantime, let the proven number one veteran man be just that. Rask did so, and the Bruins won it all in 2011. Perhaps Luongo can bring the Canucks similar rewards this year or the next.

Please don't reference 30 like its the beginning of the end. A man of your age should know better. The very contract you reference is one of the problematic aspects about moving Luongo, which is an obstacle not presented by the contract of Schneider.

Lets be fair here. You talk about a history of playoff failures. Last year was dismal, but it was a collapse of the whole team, exacerbated by injuries. It's unfair and inaccurate to put all of it on the shoulders of Luongo. The year before that, they were beaten in Game Seven of the Finals by a team of destiny; let's not be unnecessarily harsh on Luongo here. And for the record, he didn't request a trade. He did consent to waive his no trade clause if the club chooses to move him, but I'm unaware of him ever requesting to be traded.

Fact of the matter is, I'm not really as much of a Luongo fan as this discussion might lead you to believe. I just don't think the notion of moving Schneider is as beyond the realm of possibility as you suggest, and it is certainly not absurd. I'm not saying it will happen, I'm simply saying that it could.

Maybe I just have a soft spot for Luongo because he is going to win me the WZHL fantasy hockey pool this year. Because after all. He. Is. The. Guy.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Luongo requested a trade. This has been confirmed by numerous NHL analysts, including the TSN panel and Nick Kypreos of SportsNet, who broke the story long before anyone else picked up on it.

Look, maybe, just maybe, the Canucks would be stupid enough to trade the 26-year old budding young goaltender with an extremely attractive and manageable $4M cap hit through to 2015-16 in favor of the 33-year old vet, under contract until 2022 with a much uglier $5.34M cap hit that has a handful of walk-away years on it (that are now punishable in the new CBA). Maybe. But guess what? They'd be STUPID to do so.

Again, this is about CAP and CONTRACT management. Logic dictates that you never (or rarely) put your fortunes in the basket of those closer to retirement when you actually have the option to remain young. Least of all a player with a back-diving contract. Not under this CBA. Not anymore.

On a related goaltending note, Tim Thomas has been traded for a conditional 2nd round pick in either 2014 or 2015 to... the New York Islanders!

 

[LSN80]

You would think at a time where they're riding a 5 game winning streak, morale in Pittsburgh would be higher regarding the Penguins. Chris Kunitz and James Neal are tied for second in goals in the NHL, and Sidney Crosby leads the NHL in scoring. The Penguins have amassed 95 goals- 10 higher then any other team in the NHL, and lead the incredibly tough Atlantic by 7 points over the Devils, and 8 over the Rangers(although NY has two games in hand). Evgeni Malkin is expected back in two weeks at the latest, and the Pens have won 5 in a row mostly without him. So why all the unrest?

The biggest concern seems to be defensively. The Penguins have been playing fire-wagon hockey, generally the kind that was popular in the 1990's. That's left them winning alot of games 6-5, and 5-4, which simply won't cut it in the playoffs. Neither Marc-Andre Fleury or Tomas Vokoun have been stable, consistent presences in net, and the Pens are 21st in Goals against per game. They've never been great defensively under Dan Bylsma- last year's 6 game debacle against the Flyers in proof of that- but they've routinely given up big leads or have to come back from large deficits.

With 2 games against the Bruins and one against the Rangers looming, this will be the biggest tests to date for the Penguins. Journeyman Mark Eaton has been recalled to lend a defensive presence, and has immediately been paired with Kris Letang. But the Rangers and Bruins aren't teams, with or without Malkin, that the Pens can afford to go down big against early, or blow a lead, and come back from. Crosby, Kunitz, Neal and Malkin(when he returns) provide plenty of firepower, but the brand of hockey the Pens are playing won't prove successful against Boston or New York, and down the road, over a 7 game series in the playoffs.

A shut-down, stay at home defenseman is the biggest need for the Penguins, along with stability in net. What's the biggest need/hole on your favorite team headed into the second half of the season?

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Biggest need/hole on the Rangers IMO is/are the exact same holes that they had at this point last season — depth and a right-handed shot for the PP, which makes sense when you consider the recent rumors of the Rangers showing interest in the Sharks' Dan Boyle. Boyle is a veteran, right-handed shot for the PP who has history with Rangers' head coach John Tortorella, winning a Cup with him when he played for Tampa in 2004.

My only fear with Boyle is the additional year on his contract. With a $6.66M cap hit carrying into next year, with the cap dropping and the Rangers already near the ceiling, salary will have to go back to the Sharks in the deal. A lot of fans won't agree with it, but this is where Gáborík comes into play. He's been struggling this season, and with the Rangers' two-year window with their current group (just five players signed for 2014), it looks more and more like they're in "Cup or Bust" mode. I have no issue with Boyle the player, only the price associated with him. Make it work and so long as the cost isn't insane, I'm game.

Boyle, Clowe and another piece for Gáby (one more year at $7.5M) looks like a solid deal if you ask me.

There's also a rumor floating that the LAK could jump into the Gáby sweeps, which makes sense considering Dean Lombardi's desire for him since 2009, including an attempt to trade for him again in 2011.

Combine both these reports/rumors with the comments from Rangers' assistant GM Jeff Gorton at the GM meetings (standing in for Glen Sather, who will undergo surgery for prostate cancer this Thursday) and it's easy to say the Rangers will be active at the deadline this year.

@CraigCustance:

AGM Jeff Gorton says Rangers will be aggressive in trade talks: "We're always trying to get something that's going to put us over the top."

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Loving the Rangers picking up Ryane Clowe today from the Sharks for a 2nd, 3rd and conditional 2nd (that activates upon the Rangers completing two rounds of the playoffs or re-signing Clowe, otherwise it becomes a 5th). Clowe is in the same mold as Scott Hartnell, Ryan Malone, etc. They open up ice and double as enforcers if/when a team decides to test their resolve by going after the softer players on their lines.

The Rangers' biggest problems right now are certainly goal-scoring, but especially being a soft club, which Clowe changes. Fact is, while scoring is an issue, last years' team couldn't score either, but managed to make the Conf. Final because of how tough they were and how well they played for each other. That goes a long way on the ice.

Fans have been razzing the move because of the fact that Clowe doesn't have a goal this year, but all I can say to that is if you think Clowe is never gonna score a goal again in the NHL, you're an idiot. He's 30, not 48. He's having a shit year out West, but sometimes a guy just needs a change of scenery.

Rangers aren't done making moves, either. My guess is they still move out someone like Pyatt, or Boyle, who are adding to how soft this team has played this season.

They were one of the top-2 teams last season in fights and PIM majors and have fallen to 28th this year because they shipped out all their grit.

 

[CH David]

Remember when the Blackhawks had that point streak going? Good times.

They have their flaws, and they scare the shit out of me when they play with the lead in the 3rd lately. They give up late goals at the end of periods too which is frustrating as all hell. If they play a complete 60 minutes without any lapses in their team defense, they are incredibly tough to beat. Puck possession is awesome when you're keeping the puck out of your own zone. Being the first team to clinch a spot, followed by the Pens a few hours later, was sweet. We will see what happens once the playoffs start in a few weeks.