2013 NHL Thread

[It's Damn Real!]

Oh, it's good for the Devils, in that they get their starter back. It's bad in nearly every other facet, however.

1. He's 40 years old. Is he gonna come back looking like the Brodeur who finished the year, or the one who started it, that couldn't stop a beach ball?

2. He's 40 years old. That makes his multi-year Over-35 contract a mandate for the Devils. That means if he's injured, retired, whatever — it doesn't matter. His $4.5M cap hit sticks, and for a team with $175M in outside lender debt, that's a serious mishap should anything happen that would cause them to be paying off a roster ghost. Bankruptcy still looms.

3. He's 40 years old. Even if he plays both years, what does that say for a future starter in net? Better hope you can find one in free agency or trade, because Jeff Frazee is cannon fodder.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Also, for those of you with vested interests in Zach Parise and/or the New Jersey Devils, just understand something very clear about this situation with him and the Devils:

Something you have to remember here with guys like Parise, etc. is that while everyone and their mother want to get their hands on these men, they WILL make maximum (as per the CBA) salary this season and likely for the next one or two in addition as a means to alter the salary cap hit of the contract they sign. Every one of them is getting $8M+ UP FRONT in a signing bonus. Parise's deal, in fact, is likely to pay him $12M on the DAY he signs, and then $1M in actual salary ($13M max salary per CBA) for the first year alone. That's all part of the front loaded protection AGAINST the potential for a lockout.

Brad Richards did the same thing with the Rangers last season. He makes $12M in actual salary in the first two years of his deal, $10M of which is signing bonus in year one, with $2M in actual salary and a second $8M signing bonus on July 1 this year with a $4M salary for this coming season. After that it's a mixture of smaller signing bonuses included with a decreasing yearly salary designed to artificially alter the cap hit associated with the long-term deal. Zach Parise will get something damn near identical, and for even more money (word is $90M).

Do I really need to bring up that $175M number again and raise all the bankruptcy concerns in New Jersey to explain to you why this is a highly unlikely scenario for New Jersey?

 

[LoudClearVoice]

As of Sunday, Ryan Suter's agent said there would be no face-to-face meetings with any team representatives but just a few minutes ago, this interesting tidbit came out:
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/07/red_wings_on_their_private_pla.html

Suter must have requested the face-to-face meeting. Could he be on the plane coming to Detroit for a press conference? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[loucar86]

Thus far the Rangers have brought in Arron Asham and Michael Haley to appease the loss of Brandon Prust to the Canadiens — two moves I'm absolutely fine with. Asham I've always wanted, because he's a total gamer, and Haley has a lot of untapped potential. Prust at $2.5M a season is absurd. He's a fourth-line penalty-killer/energy guy and part-time pugilist. Giving him that deal would have been ridiculous, and I said the same when Avery was asking for $3.5M and when the Rangers offered Chris Neil $3.5M to leave Ottawa a few years back. You don't pay bottom-6 players like that unless you are organizationally devoid of them, which the Rangers are absolutely not.

Best of luck to Prust in Montréal, though. Always liked the guy, and I don't blame him one bit for taking the money.

Parise has reportedly narrowed his search to the Penguins or Wild, which has me hoping he picks the Wild and goes home for the feel-good story of the summer, as opposed to signing on with the Penguins and earning the spurn for the next decade, plus, from Rangers, Devils, etc. fans alike — all of whom will see it as betrayal.

Nash is also, by all reports, the guy the Rangers want, and have wanted since last year. Once Parise signs, all reports indicate that moves will be made quickly on the Nash and Bobby Ryan fronts.

My guess? Parise signs with the Wild, Rangers trade for Nash, Flyers trade for Bobby Ryan and Ryan Suter signs a lifetime deal with the Red Wings.

I loose respect for players if they take the "easy road" and go to pittsburgh to play with Malkin and crosby. its like players going to the Heat in NBA. I would like to see Parise to go the Wild. They can be a 7 or 8 seed IMO.

The rangers o jeez IDK how they are going to swing Nash. I was thinking they were gonna give up chad johnson from the AHL, but the jackets made a deal with the flyers for their goalie (cant spell his name). so who do they give up? dubinski? I'll pack his suit case for him.... a first round pick in 2013? yea ok no big deal. but the hold up is that they want a defensman. No idea who to give up. the only guy im willing to give up is del zotto and even that is a stretch. unless they want stu bickel lol

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I loose respect for players if they take the "easy road" and go to pittsburgh to play with Malkin and crosby. its like players going to the Heat in NBA. I would like to see Parise to go the Wild. They can be a 7 or 8 seed IMO.

The rangers o jeez IDK how they are going to swing Nash. I was thinking they were gonna give up chad johnson from the AHL, but the jackets made a deal with the flyers for their goalie (cant spell his name). so who do they give up? dubinski? I'll pack his suit case for him.... a first round pick in 2013? yea ok no big deal. but the hold up is that they want a defensman. No idea who to give up. the only guy im willing to give up is del zotto and even that is a stretch. unless they want stu bickel lol

The Jackets actually don't want a defender. They want a forward. Chris Kreider is the guy they want, but Sather refuses to give him up (thankfully).

Adam Portzline already noted that all the rumors about McDonagh being the piece the CBJ wants are wrong — it's a forward they want. They like Dubinsky and he'd have to be a part of the package, but the asking price of two forwards, two prospects and a pick is still far too steep if Howson isn't willing to drop his asking price a bit.

Dubinsky, Anisimov, two prospects and a pick is likely about as rich as Slats would be willing to go.

Additionally the Rangers just signed Taylor Pyatt, brother of former Rangers' prospect Tommy Pyatt (traded to Montréal in the McDonagh deal) to a 2-year/$3.1M deal ($1.55M cap hit) which likely signals the end of the Fedotenko run in New York.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Zach Parise AND Ryan Suter, both gone to the Minnesota Wild for 13-year deals each!

Suck it, Devils fans. I fuckin' told you you'd lose him. Next time LISTEN to me when I tell you you're bankrupt, joke of a franchise doesn't have any god damn money to retain PREMIERE players, and no, the 40-year old Martin Brodeur and the 39-year old Johan Hedberg do not constitute PREMIERE anymore.

Way to go, Minney!

 

[hatehabsforever]

Lost in all of the hoopla is the Bruins quietly re-signing Tuuka Rask. With Thomas's days in Boston appearing to be over, it's time for someone to step up and fill his extremely large shoes, and I think Rask has shown in the past that's he's more than ready to do so.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Thomas' days in Boston were over WELL before this, dating back to the refusal to accompany the team to the White House over his fuckin' political affiliations. Guy is a jackass. A self-absorbed, self-centered, egomaniacal jackass.

The Rask signing is key, but a one-year deal is tough to swallow considering you'll be shackled with re-signing him again next season. If he makes a massive run, prepare to fork over $6M, minimum, in a long-term deal, based off what guys like Price got.

 

[loucar86]

well the wild will be in the playoffs next year and free agency inst even over yet. Jagr signed a one year deal with dallas.

I think the biggest loser of the off season ( other than the obvious NJ and nashville) r the islanders... again. they lost PA Peatentu (spelling sry) a guy who finished top 10 in pts with a team who finsihed 14 in the east. and lost al montoya... so whos in goal DP?? Nabolkov?? yikes... i feel bad for Tavares nd Moulson they need to move to brooklyn asap and maybe that will help lure ppl there

 

[It's Damn Real!]

The Islanders' issues are only partially on the fact they're stuck with Nassau Coliseum until 2015. The bigger issue is that that contract rapes them of loads of revenue that they have to pay out on it, where most clubs actually make profit off the sale of food and concessions (the Islanders don't, or only make a VERY SMALL percentage). That's what's really hurting them, because while the fans continue not to show up, the ones who do are only padding the pockets of the vendors, not the team, which leaves Wang stuck between a rock and a hard place with his own club's future and the potential to bring in free agents.

Geographically speaking, there should be NO issue bringing in lucrative free agents to Long Island, a place that is consistently rated a top-10 place to live (and one of the top-20 most expensive in all of the US). The issue is that they literally can't afford it. Wang has been spending, on average, at least $1M of his own money every year just to keep the team afloat.

But I agree, losing Parenteau to pick up Brad Boyes is a major step backward, and losing Montoya fucks them even more unless they feel one of Anders Nilsson, Kevin Poulin or Mikko Koskinen are ready for full-time NHL action next season.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Sounding more and more like the Phoenix Coyotes franchise may fold in the coming weeks.

@Proteautype:

Reason No. 1 why the NHL would choose to fold the Coyotes rather than relocate them: expansion fees vs. relocation fees.

In the current CBA, the players get a 0% share of expansion fees. NHLPA did, however, get a cut of the Jets re-location.

So, Phoenix folds, NHL goes without 23 jobs for the season, then owners get repaid big-time over next few years (in Seattle, QC, & S. Ont.)

--

Frankly, it's probably best for the league as a whole considering the cost of relocation v. the cost of contraction. The Coyotes, like the Devils, have been borrowing against the house for two plus years now, but unlike the Devils (who have a slim chance), the Coyotes deals to keep the franchise in Phoenix just don't seem to be there.

To answer the question I'm sure some of you would ask — yes, the NHL would have a contraction draft and sell off all the pieces of the Coyotes to other NHL clubs were this to happen.

 

[#TGMTEL]

Thomas' days in Boston were over WELL before this, dating back to the refusal to accompany the team to the White House over his fuckin' political affiliations. Guy is a jackass. A self-absorbed, self-centered, egomaniacal jackass.

Have to agree with this Damn Real Thomas is so self centered people here in Boston are finally starting to see his true colors. I met the guy a couple of times and he has been a jackass everytime. Never liked the guy and never will

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Have to agree with this Damn Real Thomas is so self centered people here in Boston are finally starting to see his true colors. I met the guy a couple of times and he has been a jackass everytime. Never liked the guy and never will

There's a reason it took him this long to hit the NHL, and it's not just because the talent wasn't there or didn't come through until later in his career.

I've read reports coming out of the B's locker room of a number of issues stemming from shit with him — from the littlest things like the way he doesn't talk to his team mates or engage with them in that sort of camaraderie-like effort to constantly referring to the team as "they", not "we" or "us". Then of course there's all this bullshit like the refusal to attend the White House dinner (choosing politics over his own team and teammates), and all that "Tim Thomas, Free Citizen" horse shit.

Were I a Bruins fan, I'd be ecstatic that fuckin' dick head wants to leave. Thanks for the Cup, now go rot in obscurity.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

@RenLavoieRDS:

NHL proposal to players: 1-reduce players hockey related revenues to 46% from 57 %. 2-10 seasons in NHL before being UFA.

3-contracts limites to 5 years 4-no more salary arbitration. 5- entry-level contract 5 years instead of 3.

@Proteautype:

If that report is accurate, the NHL wants its players to take an 11% pay cut. THEY GREW THE BUSINESS BY ONE BILLION DOLLARS. Repellent.

I guess if the NHL made $2 billion more in revenue, they'd get rid of guaranteed contracts altogether & start making players pay for sticks.

I realize this is a first offer. But this is a major retrenchment attempt when the business has never been better! Breathtaking arrogance.

"The moment the proposal was presented, every player in the room knew Gary had just written off 1st 3 months of the season." - an NHL agent

@NYP_Brooksie:

NHL proposal amounts to Declaration of War against NHLPA

Post has learned proposal not only would reduce share to 46% of HRR as per @RenLavoieRDS but would redfine HRR to dramatically reduce gross

Post has learned proposal calls for ceiling to be set $4M above midpoint, floor $8M under

Post has learned proposal would eliminate signing bonuses and mandate same salary in each season with 5-yr term limit

--

I don't see how even half these changes go into effect.

I'm not going to even get into the fact they just "offered" that the NHLPA reduce their revenue rate by 11% — that is big enough on it's own. The fact they want to eliminate salary arbitration entirely, force the UFA extension from 2-10 years (effectively making all free agents a minimum of 28), limit contracts to 5 year caps and extend entry-level deals to five years? Insane.

How exactly is anyone under the age of 28 supposed to make anything substantial if you also want them to limit their term, eliminate signing bonuses and extend their ELC's by two years? I get not wanting RFA's to max out early, but you're going to extreme lengths to assure clubs of that.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

@DarrenDreger:

Breaking: Shea Weber agrees to offer sheet with Philadelphia. 14 years, upwards of $100 mil. Preds have 7 days to match. Wow!!

Nashville was working on a trade and its believed several deadlines passed before Flyers grew tired of waiting. Weber signed offer sheet.

I'm told a number of teams were in on a possible Shea Weber trade. If Preds don't match, they receive 4- 1st round picks as compensation.

--

So what does this mean?

Real money is a legitimate factor here. $26M up front means the franchise needs to actually find that in house. If it doesn't exist, they don't have a god damned choice in this matter, regardless of compensation, which would be four first-round picks going to Nashville in return (2013, 14, 15, 16)

@DNFlyers:

Spending $26M in one calendar yr, NSH would be forking over 16% of entire franchise net worth ($163M in '11 accd to Forbes) to match offer

Nashville has 7 days for their "Right of Refusal", or in other words, 7 days to match or accept the compensatory picks and send Weber packing.

How does this work?

@RealKyper:

#Preds Weber offer sheet from #Flyers. 1st 4 yrs 1M salary+13M sb; yrs 5-6 4M sal+ 8Msb; yrs 7-10 6M sal; year 11 3M sal; last 3 yrs 1M sal

To clarify, that's a $13M signing bonus due on July 1st of EVERY YEAR over the first four years of the contract. Literally. $13M. Up front. On the spot. Cut a check.

The full breakdown:

Year 1-4: $13M SB, $1M salary
Total of $52M in signing bonuses

Year 5-6: $8M SB, $4M salary
Total of $16M in signing bonuses

Year 7-10: $6M salary

Year 11: $3M salary

Year 12-14: $1M salary

--

Fans will hate him for it, for sure, but luckily for him he signed it with an Eastern Conference team.

I also can't really blame him for it. He wanted to be paid. Nashville likely can't pay him, so it stands to reason he signed with a team he could not only be paid from, but also potentially win a Cup with.

There's no getting around it, though —*this is cap circumvention through and through.

I can't wait for the NHLPA and NHL to reach an agreement on a new CBA, because chances are that cap contracts (as in a limit on years) will be one of the biggest things added.

Thoughts?

 

[Lowdown]

It amazes me that contracts in hockey are for so many years. But I can't blame the guy myself for a hefty pay. I mainly follow what's going on with the Kings for the most part, so I don't know much about Shea Weber. Nor do I know what's up with the money that is limited to teams like Nashville, Phoenix, etc. I'd probably do the same if I were in Weber's position.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Well don't get too used to it, because the new CBA is likely to shatter these loopholes of signing players to what are in essence "lifetime" deals. The new CBA is almost certainly going to include a contract cap, which will have a hard number attached—say 7—that teams will not be allowed to (under any circumstances) get past. That means no more 10, 12, 14-year deals, etc.

Players will be limited in term to what's likely to be 7 years or less.

 

[Lowdown]

That seems a lot more viable. I know a lot of players are very young, starting their careers in their late teens. But having 10+ year contracts and such has never made much sense to me, in any sport. I was very critical of the 13 year contract that Donovan McNabb had signed I believe in '01 or '02 for the Eagles.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Well the real issue isn't in the length, it's in the fact that NHL contracts are guaranteed. When you have the ability to cut a player, the prospect of signing them to a long-term deal really isn't half as scary.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

So for those who dont' know already (not sure there are any, but it's a formality), the Rangers have officially and FINALLY acquired Rick Nash and a minor league defenseman for Artem Anisimov, Brandon Dubinsky, Tim Erixon and a 2013 1st round selection. The deal also includes Columbus' third round selection, which is forfeited if the Rangers make the Stanley Cup Final (irrelevant).

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=401276

"We're happy to have a five-time All-Star on our team and a 40-goal scorer," said New York general manager Glen Sather, who was also happy he didn't have to break up the young core of his team any more than he did. "He will help us immensely."

The Rangers finally have that secondary scorer that they've lacked since Jágr left for the KHL, and not only that, but have both in their prime (Gáborík, Nash), as well as playmaking centers for them (Richards, Stepan) and two of the fastest skaters in the NHL to compliment them (Kreider, Hagelin). Couple that with a Vezina-winning goaltender and one of the strongest defensive cores in the NHL and I'd say the Rangers are about primed for a serious run!

Oh, and they're in on Doan, too. Add Doan to this mix and we'll have the deepest team in the league IMO.

My guess for once Gábs is healthy:

Hagelin - Richards - Nash
Kreider - Stepan - Gáborík
Pyatt - Boyle - Callahan
Rupp - Halpern - Asham

McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - Strålman
Del Zotto - Bickel​

If you add Doan, he pushes Pyatt to a competitive rotation with Rupp or Asham on the fourth line and adds Doan to the third line with Boyle and Callahan.

I'm obviously happier than a pig in shit over this, but I figured we could probably have some decent discussion over the whole process.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

I'm not very familiar with the guys the Rangers gave up to get Nash. Are they good?

I know Columbus wasn't going to trade Nash to the Wings under any circumstances but the Wings offered Franzen, Filppula, Nyquist, and a draft choice.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Dubinsky is an industrious, hard-working very tough two-way winger, very much in the mold of what they've already got in house in RJ Umberger. He'll go through the wall for his team and his teammates, and even drop the gloves to defend their honor, but he has major scoring inconsistencies that've held him down throughout the first eight years of his NHL career.

The same goes for Anisimov, though he's far less tough. He projects much more toward a Slava Kozlov type of player. Smart with the puck. Very good defensively and crafty, but skates with his head down way too much and tends to get destroyed for it once or twice a month.

Both play wing/center so the CBJ win there for sure, because they can then line them up wherever they feel they best fit. Dubinsky can play spot duty on a top-line but is better suited as a second or third-line energy guy, and Anisimov is a top-6 forward who can probably max out around 60 points a year.

Erixon is a mobile, two-way defender who can eat up big minutes. He's got a great frame, great instincts and obviously a great bloodline (his father is Jan Erixon), and generally plays a great all around game. The more minutes you give him, the better he'll be.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Looking more and more like we're not going to end up with a season here.

The two sides (NHLPA and NHL) are so far apart in discussions that "negotiations" are likely to take a lot longer than many, if any, anticipated to get hammered out.

I love how unified the Players are over this, and I side with them for the most part, but at the end of the day it's the fans who get fucked in situations like this, not the millionaires squabbling over who gets the last pennies.

 

[Thriller Ant]

It's just frustrating because, similarly to the NBA lockout, it's the owners complaining about the contracts they gave to the players. No one forced them to offer 14 year contracts worth over $100 million to guys, but those are what the owners are complaining about. I can't remember which owner it was, but I remember reading that an owner signed a player to a six-year contract just before the lockout, and is now angrily demanding that contracts be capped at 5 years. I do think that the players will have to roll back a bit on hockey related income, but the owners' position of "protect us from ourselves" is ridiculous and I'm pissed that we are losing hockey because of it.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

It's not that black and white, Thriller. You are viewing this under the microscope of "Owners" v. "Players". That's simply not the reality of the situation. In reality, it's closer to "Rich Owners" v. "Players" v. "Owners Losing Money Hand-Over-Fist, Struggling to Maintain the Integrity of their Clubs".

When you have a majority of teams that lose money each season, it's hard to convince a team owner that they have a financial incentive to settle a long-term deal that may keep them losing money. If you will lose $8M this year if you agree to a deal and lose less if you don't, there isn't much incentive there. This is why the players tend to fold first. They are losing almost 100% of the money they would have made this year. Only the top teams in the league as far as profitability really face immediate hardship from a lost season.

Something to remember here — earning revenue isn't the same as making a profit. Since the lockout, the Wild (for example) have lost $4M in profits even though they have increased their revenue by $26M. In fact, the only thing that has consistently risen every single year since the lockout for the them has been the amount they have spent on player's salary. So they generate more revenue, the players benefit from higher compensation, but the owners don't see a profit.

The NHLPA's arguement is, "hey, you got the deal you wanted 7 years ago, now you have to accept it again and keep losing money."

Why is that? Because they get penalized for spending money to increase revenue. Lets say they decide to spend an extra $100,000 this year on an advertising campaign and that advertising campaign increases revenue by $200,000. Seems like a win, right? Doubled their investment. It is for the players under the old deal. Of that new $200K in revenue, the players get 57% or $114,000. That leaves $86,000 for the owners. It cost them $100K to make $86K. Does that make them bad business people? No. It means the deal they have with the players isn't working.